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View Full Version : Ozzie's regret about 2009: rushing Colon and Contreras


DumpJerry
09-29-2009, 07:40 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-29-white-sox-bits-chicago-sep29,0,1394874.story

Hitmen77
09-29-2009, 07:51 AM
...and our alternatives were?????:scratch:

Ozzie's "regret" could easily be a complaint about the team Kenny Williams put together last winter. These guys were pretty much the only options he gave Ozzie for our starting rotation.

Chez
09-29-2009, 08:36 AM
In hindsight, it's too bad that both Colon and Contreras pitched so well at the end of Spring Training. This may have lulled and Ozzie and KW into thinking that both these guys could actually be serviceable 4th and 5th starters. Colon actually started the season fairly well. Had Colon pitched poorly in the spring and Contreras not been is such great shape in March and April, KW may have felt a greater sense of urgency to seek alternatives in March. Who knows, maybe Clayton Richard may have gotten an earlier shot in the rotation or Jeff Marquez may have panned out.

I've said all along that banking on both Colon and Contreras to fill the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation was a mistake. But I think we were all cautiously optimistic about them when the Sox broke camp. That we didn't have a back-up plan (i.e. organizational depth) proved to be a huge issue.

TDog
09-29-2009, 10:26 AM
In hindsight, it's too bad that both Colon and Contreras pitched so well at the end of Spring Training. ...

That's an excellent point. Often the worst personnel decisions teams make are based on players' performance in spring training.

kittle42
09-29-2009, 10:34 AM
That's an excellent point. Often the worst personnel decisions teams make are based on players' performance in spring training.

The truth of the matter is that, generally, on a good team, the only positions to be decided in spring training are a couple bench guys, two (at most) bullpen guys (or maybe just bullpen roles) and maybe a fifth starter.

Lip Man 1
09-29-2009, 11:37 AM
The regret SHOULD be that the Sox even considered relying on these two guys in the first place. Contreras was mediocre AT BEST since the second half of 2006 with numerous trips to the DL and a poor record almost 20 games under .500 since that time period...Colon's best days with the Sox were in 2003.

To think Kenny actually thought these guys could have contributed in the first place is the real mistake.

Lip

Noneck
09-29-2009, 11:37 AM
Ozzie's "regret" could easily be a complaint about the team Kenny Williams put together last winter. These guys were pretty much the only options he gave Ozzie for our starting rotation.

And with nothing in the till, what were Williams options?

salty99
09-29-2009, 12:19 PM
The regret SHOULD be that the Sox even considered relying on these two guys in the first place. Contreras was mediocre AT BEST since the second half of 2006 with numerous trips to the DL and a poor record almost 20 games under .500 since that time period...Colon's best days with the Sox were in 2003.

To think Kenny actually thought these guys could have contributed in the first place is the real mistake.

Lip

Agreed. Clayton Richard is about the other name we had that could have been a regular starter at that point.

Waysouthsider
09-29-2009, 12:20 PM
Wow, what a great explanation....you forget how great we were all feeling about Jose just weeks ago!

kobo
09-29-2009, 12:27 PM
The regret SHOULD be that the Sox even considered relying on these two guys in the first place. Contreras was mediocre AT BEST since the second half of 2006 with numerous trips to the DL and a poor record almost 20 games under .500 since that time period...Colon's best days with the Sox were in 2003.

To think Kenny actually thought these guys could have contributed in the first place is the real mistake.

Lip
What was he supposed to do about Contreras? Since Contreras hurt himself last year trading him was probably not an option. He was owed $10 million this season, and I don't think the White Sox are going to be 'eating' any contracts any time soon, so they had to use him. Did they rush him back? Probably. But KW's hands were also tied when the season began, and Contreras showed flashes of brilliance so they had to throw him out there.

It's easy to sit here now and pick apart what happened, but at the beginning of the season they had to go with Contreras. Should KW have done more last off season? Without a doubt. But he rolled the dice and came up short.

Lip Man 1
09-29-2009, 03:40 PM
Kobo:

The Sox could have "discussed" the matter with Contreras and his agent and tried to get him to retire. Then the insurance injury payment would have kicked in, Jose would have received his money, the Sox would have been off the hook and Contreras, a good teammate and dedicated guy could have been spared the embarrassment that he went through this season.

He could have used the year to heal properly and then tried a comeback with someone next season if he chose to.

I agree the Sox were between a rock and a hard place with him due to the contract, but there are always ways to get out of deals today no?

But the bottom line is this, regardless of how much money he was owed, he was awful, costing the Sox games...yet they kept running him out there. Back in June many fans on this board suggested calling up someone from the minors... that they couldn't possibly be worse.

Your comment makes me think that you feel Kenny is more interested in how much someone is owed than winning games. That's a little hard to believe but if true that sets a very bad precedent doesn't it? And what does that make Kenny look like??

Lip

BigKlu59
09-29-2009, 03:49 PM
Mute argument really... If the Pale Hose hit for a damn this year situationally and came back at least 25 times after 7....Jose and the Rotund one would have been an afterthought...

That not being the case, sure they had some ghoulish starts...Did we expect them to become the second coming of Koufax and Drysdale?

How's about the Sox hitters ruining the debuts of some of these rookie hulers that turn them into T-Ball Squads...

BigKlu59

dickallen15
09-29-2009, 03:51 PM
Kobo:

The Sox could have "discussed" the matter with Contreras and his agent and tried to get him to retire. Then the insurance injury payment would have kicked in, Jose would have received his money, the Sox would have been off the hook and Contreras, a good teammate and dedicated guy could have been spared the embarrassment that he went through this season.

He could have used the year to heal properly and then tried a comeback with someone next season if he chose to.

I agree the Sox were between a rock and a hard place with him due to the contract, but there are always ways to get out of deals today no?

But the bottom line is this, regardless of how much money he was owed, he was awful, costing the Sox games...yet they kept running him out there. Back in June many fans on this board suggested calling up someone from the minors... that they couldn't possibly be worse.

Your comment makes me think that you feel Kenny is more interested in how much someone is owed than winning games. That's a little hard to believe but if true that sets a very bad precedent doesn't it? And what does that make Kenny look like??

Lip

Are you sure the Sox had insurance on Contreras' contract for one? And wouldn't a doctor have to determine he couldn't pitch in order to pay out that sum of money? If he was normally healing, and the original prognosis had him coming back in August, I don't think this "discussion" you mentioned would have worked, and may have gotten some people in trouble.

asindc
09-29-2009, 03:55 PM
Kobo:

The Sox could have "discussed" the matter with Contreras and his agent and tried to get him to retire. Then the insurance injury payment would have kicked in, Jose would have received his money, the Sox would have been off the hook and Contreras, a good teammate and dedicated guy could have been spared the embarrassment that he went through this season.

He could have used the year to heal properly and then tried a comeback with someone next season if he chose to.

I agree the Sox were between a rock and a hard place with him due to the contract, but there are always ways to get out of deals today no?

But the bottom line is this, regardless of how much money he was owed, he was awful, costing the Sox games...yet they kept running him out there. Back in June many fans on this board suggested calling up someone from the minors... that they couldn't possibly be worse.

Your comment makes me think that you feel Kenny is more interested in how much someone is owed than winning games. That's a little hard to believe but if true that sets a very bad precedent doesn't it? And what does that make Kenny look like??

Lip

How do we know that this didn't happen?

Lip Man 1
09-29-2009, 04:34 PM
Dick:

I have heard different things from people but most folks I've spoken with think the Sox had injury insurance on him. That's pretty standard practice today for large contracts. I do not know specifics of what an injury settlement would require under those circumstances so I can't answer your question.

Asin:

True I don't know for sure that they might have asked Jose to retire and he said, "no."

Lip

asindc
09-29-2009, 04:36 PM
Dick:

I have heard different things from people but most folks I've spoken with think the Sox had injury insurance on him. That's pretty standard practice today for large contracts. I do not know specifics of what an injury settlement would require under those circumstances so I can't answer your question.

Asin:

True I don't know for sure that they might have asked Jose to retire and he said, "no."

Lip

For that kind of money, I know I would have said "no."

Tragg
09-29-2009, 05:38 PM
No regrets on installing DeWayne Wise as the opening day leadoff hitter. That would require Ozzie admitting that his talent evaluation skills are less than stellar, I guess.

TornLabrum
09-29-2009, 08:12 PM
Mute argument really...

I think you meant "moot." A mute argument would be awfully hard to hear.

Lip Man 1
09-29-2009, 08:48 PM
Asin:

He retires because of the injury he gets paid anyway.

Lip

asindc
09-29-2009, 09:11 PM
Asin:

He retires because of the injury he gets paid anyway.

Lip

Then who would pitch as 5th starter to open season? Richard? Carrasco? Torres?

tstrike2000
09-29-2009, 09:26 PM
And our regret, having to watch Colon and Contreras pitch in a White Sox uniform in 2009.

chisoxfanatic
09-29-2009, 09:55 PM
If he regrets it, why didn't he regret it in the middle of the season when he constantly was throwing them out there? Seriously, nothing was improving with those two, and it was happening for a long enough time to come to the conclusion that it was time to cut ties with them.

BadBobbyJenks
09-29-2009, 10:03 PM
I think you meant "moot." A mute argument would be awfully hard to hear.
:roflmao: Is it weird I just spent the last 5 minutes picturing how this would play out?

Lip Man 1
09-29-2009, 10:29 PM
Asin:

Had he retired soon enough the Sox could have used that money to get a "real" starter as opposed to someone with severe limitations. (i.e. age, weight, can't make it out of the 5th inning or coming off two missed years due to injury/surgery)

Lip

BigKlu59
09-30-2009, 02:02 PM
Sure, its a MUTE argument..... Cause if the Sox would plaster crooked numbers on the scoreboard over 9 these two could be 12'' slow pitch softball hurlers and it wouldnt matter... Hense, not a sound or grunt would be needed in a discussion in this matter, Thus, "Mute" my distinguished colleague.. A MOOT point would infer a silly ass subjective opine laced with fringe statistical nuance not worth the beans that the hill had been made of...

BigKlu59