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View Full Version : What would be the market for AJ?


soxtalker
09-28-2009, 05:51 PM
AJ never gets mentioned as a possible trade candidate, and there are lots of good reasons why he wouldn't be on OG's or KW's lists to ship out. But, as many have noted, Kenny can do anything. So, I'm just curious, what value would AJ have in a trade?

MARTINMVP
09-28-2009, 10:16 PM
I don't want to see AJ gone. Believe it or not, back when I was still a Cub fan a few years back, I had no problem telling everyone I knew that AJ was my favorite ball player in Chicago.

CWSpalehoseCWS
09-28-2009, 10:56 PM
No one is saying we want him gone, but if Flowers impresses and the Sox think he can step it up next season, I wouldn't be surprised if he's moved, especially since it's his last year on his contract. Probably not until mid-season though. Sad to think about as A.J.'s one of if not my favorite player on the team. Despite the .300+ AVG, I don't think he would net the Sox too much in return value.

cws05champ
09-28-2009, 11:11 PM
AJ never gets mentioned as a possible trade candidate, and there are lots of good reasons why he wouldn't be on OG's or KW's lists to ship out. But, as many have noted, Kenny can do anything. So, I'm just curious, what value would AJ have in a trade?

We need more players with AJ's heart and passion, not less. He should stick around.

kittle42
09-29-2009, 12:17 AM
We need more players with AJ's heart and passion, not less. He should stick around.

Heart. Passion. Chicago tough!

DSpivack
09-29-2009, 12:24 AM
Heart. Passion. Chicago tough!

That said, I do think trading AJ would be a dumb move. Flowers is completely unproven and good catchers are hard to find.

Konerko05
09-29-2009, 01:20 AM
No one is saying we want him gone, but if Flowers impresses and the Sox think he can step it up next season, I wouldn't be surprised if he's moved, especially since it's his last year on his contract. Probably not until mid-season though. Sad to think about as A.J.'s one of if not my favorite player on the team. Despite the .300+ AVG, I don't think he would net the Sox too much in return value.

The Sox should be in contention all year with the pitching staff being the strong point. I can not see the White Sox trading their starting catcher midseason while trying to make a run at the division.

A rookie catcher being thrown out midseason to catch a World Series caliber rotation during a penant run would be very counter productive. No return on A.J,. at that point, would be worth more than his worth to the pitching staff.

If they trade A.J., it would have to be in the offseason to give Flowers a whole spring training to work with the pitching staff.

I'm guessing they will hold on to A.J. until his contract expires. A.J. knows how to handle a staff which is what this team will be built around. Not to mention, he is still a productive left handed bat.

soxtalker
09-29-2009, 09:46 AM
When I started this thread, I really wasn't trying to advocate trading AJ. I know he's valuable.

I'm just was trying to get a feel for what the market is for him. In years past, there probably weren't many teams that would have been interested. But he's hitting .300. He catches a huge number of games. That must have some value on the trade market. And KW is probably assessing that market value for every player.

One other related issue that has occurred to me is how they work Flowers in as catcher. It's not at bats that I'm talking about here; they can always DH or him or play him at other positions. But, if you want to make a transition to a new catcher, AJ doesn't strike me as a guy who likes giving up starts. in a sense, it is a nice problem to have.

Madvora
09-29-2009, 10:09 AM
That said, I do think trading AJ would be a dumb move. Flowers is completely unproven and good catchers are hard to find.
No kidding! Man, how many years did we have to sit through an automatic out at that position? It's so nice to have something filling up that hole.
However, I would love to have two great hitters at that position so we can use one of them to make this team even better.

khan
09-29-2009, 10:23 AM
To the OP's question: I think AJ's return would be somewhat underwhelming, given his age and (in)ability to throw out runners. He's 33, and he's not going to get any better. He's caught A LOT of games since he's been in Chicago, which doesn't portend durability and longevity for coming seasons. I can't fathom him catching more than ~50 or so games beyond 2011, unless he's visited the same doctors that Pudge Rodriguez and others may have visited, (wink-wink, nudge-nudge).

To the positive, AJ's a good-to-great offensive catcher, has a great baseball brain, and can handle a pitching staff well. Given the projected quality of the SOX's pitching staff in '10/'11, and Flowers' status as being unproven, he should remain here for the near term.

Moreover, I would hope that AJ would see fit to stay with this club beyond his current contract, in a shared role with Flowers.

guillensdisciple
09-29-2009, 02:54 PM
I think A.J has a good 3 to 4 years left in him, but with that said I think his return would be a top tier rookie (top 10 in a certain organization) or a good to very good reliever. Nothing over the top, but a decent return can be expected.

DickAllen72
09-29-2009, 04:53 PM
Flowers has a long way to go before he's as valuable as A.J.

The Sox should sign A.J. to an extension. And after he finishes his playing career with the Sox, I'd like to see him in the broadcast booth.

soltrain21
09-29-2009, 10:44 PM
No kidding! Man, how many years did we have to sit through an automatic out at that position? It's so nice to have something filling up that hole.
However, I would love to have two great hitters at that position so we can use one of them to make this team even better.

Defense from the catcher's position is far more important than offense.

russ99
09-29-2009, 10:58 PM
Flowers has a long way to go before he's as valuable as A.J.

The Sox should sign A.J. to an extension. And after he finishes his playing career with the Sox, I'd like to see him in the broadcast booth.

That would be awesome!

I still think Flowers will end up as 1B or DH before he takes A.J.'s job.

Josh Phegley will probably end up as our starting catcher, but he's 2-3 years away.

WhiteSoxRich
09-30-2009, 12:00 AM
[QUOTE=khan;2361053]To the OP's question: I think AJ's return would be somewhat underwhelming, given his age and (in)ability to throw out runners.

Don't forget, the pitchers haven't done a very good job of holding runners on base or given A.J. a quick enough delivery to throw runners out.

khan
09-30-2009, 10:12 AM
Don't forget, the pitchers haven't done a very good job of holding runners on base or given A.J. a quick enough delivery to throw runners out.
You and I know that. The media in Chicago knows that. The SOX coaching and scouting staff knows that.

But never underestimate the stupidity and incompetence of other GMs in other markets. Front offices in this and other sports are among the weakest managerial minds in all of the business world. Every year, there are mind-blowingly stupid decisions throughout MLB and throughout the sporting world.

We have but one example of many incompetents in Chicago: Jim Hendry should have known that Milton Bradley's left-handed splits are far worse than his right-handed splits. [I won't bother to mention Bradley's inability to be coached or to integrate himself into a team setting or to count to 3 outs.] But the dumb mope blew $30M on Bradley anyway. Anyone with a 3-digit IQ and an internet connection [even dial-up] could have seen that. But somehow, the imbecile still signed Bradley.

A mildly-competent GM might look at AJ's CS% and SB% against and see him as an underwhelming arm at catcher. In trade talks, a mildly-competent GM might see these numbers, and use them to drive down KW's asking price. Alternatively, the CAUSE of AJ's underwhelming numbers [as you posted, the inattentiveness to the runners by pitchers] may be missed entirely.

rwcescato
09-30-2009, 12:57 PM
AJ never gets mentioned as a possible trade candidate, and there are lots of good reasons why he wouldn't be on OG's or KW's lists to ship out. But, as many have noted, Kenny can do anything. So, I'm just curious, what value would AJ have in a trade?
He should be a member of the White Sox until he retires. He brought the win at all costs attitude to this organization. he is a class act.

soxinem1
10-12-2009, 02:18 PM
Flowers has a long way to go before he's as valuable as A.J.

The Sox should sign A.J. to an extension. And after he finishes his playing career with the Sox, I'd like to see him in the broadcast booth.

We might see him as a coach.

Then again, maybe he can replace Farmer!!

KMcMahon817
10-12-2009, 02:44 PM
To the OP's question: I think AJ's return would be somewhat underwhelming, given his age and (in)ability to throw out runners. He's 33, and he's not going to get any better. He's caught A LOT of games since he's been in Chicago, which doesn't portend durability and longevity for coming seasons. I can't fathom him catching more than ~50 or so games beyond 2011, unless he's visited the same doctors that Pudge Rodriguez and others may have visited, (wink-wink, nudge-nudge).

To the positive, AJ's a good-to-great offensive catcher, has a great baseball brain, and can handle a pitching staff well. Given the projected quality of the SOX's pitching staff in '10/'11, and Flowers' status as being unproven, he should remain here for the near term.

Moreover, I would hope that AJ would see fit to stay with this club beyond his current contract, in a shared role with Flowers.


AJ has more in the tank than that.

soxtalker
10-12-2009, 03:18 PM
We might see him as a coach.


I'm not so sure about a coach -- at least not in the near future. Some of the rumblings that have been coming from the sportswriters in the past couple of weeks were that AJ was not mentoring Flowers. And, IIRC, AJ was one of the veterans targeted in Ozzie's rant about watching football on TV.

khan
10-12-2009, 03:49 PM
AJ has more in the tank than that.

Well, I did post "beyond 2011," meaning 2012 and thereafter. In 2012, AJ will be 36; He's caught a LOT of games since he's been in Chicago.

Catchers don't typically play too well once they get to 36 or older.

russ99
10-12-2009, 04:28 PM
I think A.J has a good 3 to 4 years left in him, but with that said I think his return would be a top tier rookie (top 10 in a certain organization) or a good to very good reliever. Nothing over the top, but a decent return can be expected.

A.J.'s burned a lot of bridges around the league. Would there really be that much demand for him? And would he maintain control with a manager who wouldn't put up with what Ozzie does?

It's probably better for both him and the Sox if he sticks around.

soxtalker
10-12-2009, 04:52 PM
A.J.'s burned a lot of bridges around the league. Would there really be that much demand for him? And would he maintain control with a manager who wouldn't put up with what Ozzie does?

It's probably better for both him and the Sox if he sticks around.

I'm sure that's true in some places, but probably not all. He's a .300 hitter and pretty durable. There's got to be some market for that. I wonder which teams need a catcher.

As far as it being better for the Sox, well, I suspect that would be the opinion of a majority on this board. But if KW feels that Flowers is close, he may not see it that way.

Madscout
10-12-2009, 08:03 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I want AJ to stay as long as he can, and I would like him to retire here, and be a coach in this organization. I think he is going to make one hell of a head coach someday, and I want it to be with us.

Nellie_Fox
10-12-2009, 08:40 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I want AJ to stay as long as he can, and I would like him to retire here, and be a coach in this organization. I think he is going to make one hell of a head coach someday, and I want it to be with us.Baseball has managers, not head coaches.

TDog
10-12-2009, 09:00 PM
Baseball has managers, not head coaches.

There were a few years in the 1960s when the Cubs had a "college of coaches" with coaches alternating as the head coach. But even then, I don't believe anyone referred to the manager of the day as the head coach.

LoveYourSuit
10-13-2009, 01:22 AM
Honestly, reading this thread one would think you have:

Bench, Fisk, and then AJ a close 3rd.


Seriously, I hope the Sox listen to offers on everyone on this club making over $5 million.

doublem23
10-13-2009, 05:29 AM
Honestly, reading this thread one would think you have:

Bench, Fisk, and then AJ a close 3rd.


Seriously, I hope the Sox listen to offers on everyone on this club making over $5 million.

What thread are you reading? Are you surprised to learn that people liked one of our two regulars to hit .300?

wulfy
10-13-2009, 09:44 AM
Then again, maybe he can replace Farmer!!


From your keyboard to God's ear .... please!!

LoveYourSuit
10-13-2009, 11:14 AM
What thread are you reading? Are you surprised to learn that people liked one of our two regulars to hit .300?



Like him is one thing. Label him "un-tradeable" if there is an opportunity to better yourself is stupid IMO. I like AJ for many reasons. But if we can get better at other areas at his expense, then move him. If the Sox feel Flowers is very close to making a ML impact, then let's explore what we can get for a guy like AJ.

kobo
10-13-2009, 11:24 AM
Like him is one thing. Label him "un-tradeable" if there is an opportunity to better yourself is stupid IMO. I like AJ for many reasons. But if we can get better at other areas at his expense, then move him. If the Sox feel Flowers is very close to making a ML impact, then let's explore what we can get for a guy like AJ.
Getting better at other areas is always welcome, but not at the expense of your starting catcher when the option is an unproven rookie. Flowers might be ready in terms of offense, but I don't know enough of his defense or his ability to call a game to say he can step in and catch 120 games next season. With the starting staff the Sox have for next year I don't think they are in the position to possibly weaken themselves at Catcher.

LoveYourSuit
10-13-2009, 11:38 AM
Getting better at other areas is always welcome, but not at the expense of your starting catcher when the option is an unproven rookie. Flowers might be ready in terms of offense, but I don't know enough of his defense or his ability to call a game to say he can step in and catch 120 games next season. With the starting staff the Sox have for next year I don't think they are in the position to possibly weaken themselves at Catcher.


I don't put too much stock on "ability to call a game" when you have veteran pitchers on that mound. To me it is a very over-rated aspect of being a catcher unless you have a pitching staff of 20 year olds. Veteran pitchers know what they want to do out there. Other than Danks, all the other 4 starters are pretty well seasoned.

Now missing his .300 BA is a bigger deal IMO.

NLaloosh
10-13-2009, 11:59 AM
Seriously, I don't care how you feel about A.J. But, how in the world does anyone think the Sox can consider trading him and letting a completely inexperienced catcher take over on a team with World Series aspirations?

That's crazy and surely won't happen. I have nothing against Flowers but he's proven absolutely nothing in the big leagues. No way is he the starting catcher next year.

doublem23
10-13-2009, 12:58 PM
I don't put too much stock on "ability to call a game" when you have veteran pitchers on that mound. To me it is a very over-rated aspect of being a catcher unless you have a pitching staff of 20 year olds. Veteran pitchers know what they want to do out there. Other than Danks, all the other 4 starters are pretty well seasoned.

And you're basing this on what?

Here's the thing... SOMEBODY in the battery has to call the game, you know, so the catcher has a general idea of where the ball will end up. Now, you can have your pitchers calling their own pitches, but then they're essentially tipping them, and we need only look at Black Jack's series against Toronto in the '93 ALCS to see how well that will work out for everyone.

soxtalker
10-13-2009, 01:22 PM
Seriously, I don't care how you feel about A.J. But, how in the world does anyone think the Sox can consider trading him and letting a completely inexperienced catcher take over on a team with World Series aspirations?

That's crazy and surely won't happen. I have nothing against Flowers but he's proven absolutely nothing in the big leagues. No way is he the starting catcher next year.

It's risky, but I don't think it is crazy. Kenny is pretty creative, so there are probably a bunch of things he could do to minimize the risk. He could acquire a back-up catcher that works well with younger guys. Perhaps he could bring in a special coach (Fisk???) to work with Flowers.

Again, when I started this thread, it wasn't really to debate the merits of trading AJ (though that's hard to avoid). It's just that I thought that there were some strange rumblings (Ozzie's rant and a report or two that the Sox weren't happy about AJ not mentoring Flowers) that made this a possibility. How much of this is real is hard to judge. But I figured that it was worthwhile to try to assess the market.

Balfanman
10-15-2009, 10:06 AM
Hello everyone; Please be gentle with me as this is my first post. I am an avid White Sox fan since the early 70’s and have visited this site for years to get Sox news. I’m not sure what prompted me to register and start posting now, but here goes.
Let me state that I like A. J. and do hope that he is around a while longer. In addition to the “not mentoring Flowers” and the “football” incident, I wanted to get the opinion of you folks on another incident that happened this past season that may give us some insight to how A. J. views Sox management.
Remember when A. J. exchanged words with Alexei in the dugout after some lazy play on the part of Ramirez. A. J. had to be restrained if I remember correctly and then started shouting at Ozzie. Ozzie stated after the game that these matters should be handled in the clubhouse. I just wonder if A. J. isn’t a bit perturbed by the lack of accountability toward some of his teammates by management. This also seemed to be an issue a couple of years ago when A. J, kept getting plunked by pitchers. I seem to remember him glaring back into the dugout (in Texas maybe) with the look of “is anybody going to do anything about this ”. Do you think that maybe A. J. isn’t really all that thrilled with Ozzies’ lack of accountability (real or perceived) from some players? Maybe A. J. wants to be more of a vocal leader but Ozzie won’t let him.
Thank you. I’ll hang up and listen for my answer.:D:

FielderJones
10-15-2009, 10:29 AM
I’ll hang up and listen for my answer.:D:

As gently as possible, this is teal.

Do you see any characters in the circle?
http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Color25.jpg

A. Cavatica
10-15-2009, 09:24 PM
Do you think that maybe A. J. isn’t really all that thrilled with Ozzies’ lack of accountability (real or perceived) from some players? Maybe A. J. wants to be more of a vocal leader but Ozzie won’t let him.

Sounds like a good interpretation to me. Of course, Ozzie may want a clubhouse leader who's less of a renowned ******* than A.J.

oeo
10-15-2009, 10:48 PM
Hello everyone; Please be gentle with me as this is my first post. I am an avid White Sox fan since the early 70’s and have visited this site for years to get Sox news. I’m not sure what prompted me to register and start posting now, but here goes.
Let me state that I like A. J. and do hope that he is around a while longer. In addition to the “not mentoring Flowers” and the “football” incident, I wanted to get the opinion of you folks on another incident that happened this past season that may give us some insight to how A. J. views Sox management.
Remember when A. J. exchanged words with Alexei in the dugout after some lazy play on the part of Ramirez. A. J. had to be restrained if I remember correctly and then started shouting at Ozzie. Ozzie stated after the game that these matters should be handled in the clubhouse. I just wonder if A. J. isn’t a bit perturbed by the lack of accountability toward some of his teammates by management. This also seemed to be an issue a couple of years ago when A. J, kept getting plunked by pitchers. I seem to remember him glaring back into the dugout (in Texas maybe) with the look of “is anybody going to do anything about this ”. Do you think that maybe A. J. isn’t really all that thrilled with Ozzies’ lack of accountability (real or perceived) from some players? Maybe A. J. wants to be more of a vocal leader but Ozzie won’t let him.
Thank you. I’ll hang up and listen for my answer.:D:

They should be handled in the clubhouse. Blow ups like that in the dugout or in front of cameras do nothing but create a media frenzy. We have no idea what kind of fighting goes on behind the scenes, and it should stay that way. If AJ wants to be a vocal leader, he should do it in the clubhouse, not right in front of the whole stadium. You want to brawl? Go down the hall and brawl.

Also, I think it was Alexei who had to be restrained by JD, but there's no visual evidence of it, just reporting by Cowley and Gonzales, I believe.

Balfanman
10-16-2009, 06:42 AM
They should be handled in the clubhouse. Blow ups like that in the dugout or in front of cameras do nothing but create a media frenzy. We have no idea what kind of fighting goes on behind the scenes, and it should stay that way. If AJ wants to be a vocal leader, he should do it in the clubhouse, not right in front of the whole stadium.


I definitely agree that the outburst should of happened behind closed doors, but maybe A. J. had seen enough and his emotions got the best of him at the moment. A.J was brought up through the Twins organization where, as far as we know, (percieved anyway) a lack of hustle is not tolerated.
This is just the thought that ran through my head at the time. I wondered if A. J. and Ozzie bump heads a little behind closed doors. They are both pretty volatile personalities. They both want to win though, so maybe they both put up with each other because of that.

EndemicSox
10-16-2009, 06:54 PM
If the WhiteSox stink in '10, I'm fairly certain he will be dealt in that off-season. Very little to no chance he is dealt this year, as he needs to mentor Flowers for at least one season.

DSpivack
10-16-2009, 07:09 PM
If the WhiteSox stink in '10, I'm fairly certain he will be dealt in that off-season. Very little to no chance he is dealt this year, as he needs to mentor Flowers for at least one season.

His contract is up after next season.

Daver
10-16-2009, 07:31 PM
I don't put too much stock on "ability to call a game" when you have veteran pitchers on that mound. To me it is a very over-rated aspect of being a catcher unless you have a pitching staff of 20 year olds. Veteran pitchers know what they want to do out there. Other than Danks, all the other 4 starters are pretty well seasoned.

Now missing his .300 BA is a bigger deal IMO.

Catchers don't call games anymore, they haven't for a long time.

Boondock Saint
10-16-2009, 07:51 PM
Catchers don't call games anymore, they haven't for a long time.

Just out of curiosity, what would you call it that catchers do, then?

Daver
10-16-2009, 08:15 PM
Just out of curiosity, what would you call it that catchers do, then?

They call pitches.