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View Full Version : *Official* Double The Trouble, a Real Pena In The Ass 9/26 Postgame Thread


soxinem1
09-26-2009, 09:57 PM
Can Tony Pena really be expected to have a key role on the 2010 White Sox? This guy is brutal. It was close until he threw propane on the fire.

At least Dotel can rack up some K's.

Add five more DP's to the 295 we have already hit into.

Viva Medias B's
09-26-2009, 09:57 PM
The game was lost when Ozzie left Freddy in too long and brought in the crap relievers after that.

Frater Perdurabo
09-26-2009, 09:57 PM
Bloviate here.

soxinem1
09-26-2009, 10:00 PM
The game was lost when Ozzie left Freddy in too long and brought in the crap relievers after that.

I hate being an armchair manager, but Garcia was done by the end of the fifth. DET was hitting the ball hard at people all night, Ozzie should have seen this. But just like choosing to pitch to Ichiro in the 14th Inning the last time we played SEA, Guillen is a part of this **** season too.

Even so, if Pena and Linebrink were going to bridge the gap, they'd have blown it anyway.

Corlose 15
09-26-2009, 10:00 PM
Meh, I want the Sox to win but I guess the more they lose the better chance that their 1st pick is protected if they sign a Type A this offseason. Plus, with Detroit winning Minnesota doesn't come any closer to the division lead.

On the plus side, Rios had a couple hits and Quentin hit a jack.

Frater Perdurabo
09-26-2009, 10:03 PM
On the plus side, Rios had a couple hits and Quentin hit a jack.

Yes, this is a very good sign. The Sox offense should be fine in 2010 if those two merely "progress to the mean" of their career averages.

ode to veeck
09-26-2009, 10:04 PM
Damn Kittens were like Pirhanas on Freddie in the 7th while Ozzie jabbered with fans

doublem23
09-26-2009, 10:07 PM
Glad I turned this one off when I did.

DirtySox
09-26-2009, 10:08 PM
Cinci and Oakland keep winning while the Sox keep losing.

We are tied with Cincinnati for the 11th pick currently.

Brian26
09-26-2009, 10:18 PM
I hate being an armchair manager, but Garcia was done by the end of the fifth. DET was hitting the ball hard at people all night, Ozzie should have seen this. But just like choosing to pitch to Ichiro in the 14th Inning the last time we played SEA, Guillen is a part of this **** season too.

Even so, if Pena and Linebrink were going to bridge the gap, they'd have blown it anyway.

First of all, love the thread title.

I only saw about ten minutes of the game tonight, but let me say this. Guillen needs to focus on the game and quit the bush league bull**** of arguing with people in the stands. I saw part of that during Freddy's meltdown in the 7th, and it was embarrassing.

Frater Perdurabo
09-26-2009, 10:20 PM
Guillen needs to focus on the game and quit the bush league bull**** of arguing with people in the stands.

Proof that he's lost interest in this season. He was never a great in-game strategist, but frankly I think he's rested on his laurels since winning the World Series.

Lip Man 1
09-26-2009, 10:23 PM
28th loss this season for what passes as the 4th and 5th starters...10th game this year the Sox had a lead in the 7th inning or later and lost.

Typical game for the season.

Oh let's not forget the Sox scored five early runs then took the rest of the night off.

Lip

Viva Medias B's
09-26-2009, 10:26 PM
Laurence Holmes is doing the postgame today; where's Ranger?

Laurence also said that they didn't air Ozzie's postgamer because it had to be cleaned up.

southsideirish71
09-26-2009, 10:28 PM
Laurence Holmes is doing the postgame today; where's Ranger?

Laurence also said that they didn't air Ozzie's postgamer because it had to be cleaned up.

Just heard the cleaned up version on comcast. Ozzie is on a rant about the players worried more about their football games in the clubhouse than the game.

Brian26
09-26-2009, 10:28 PM
Well, Ozzie just went off with maybe his best rant of all time, so he earned back some of my respect.

Paraphrasing, some guys were watching football before and/or after the game, and Ozzie accused them of not having any pride. He said either he'll be gone or they will be gone. He doesn't mind losing, but he doesn't tolerate losing and not giving a **** about it.

Viva Medias B's
09-26-2009, 10:30 PM
Just heard the cleaned up version on comcast. Ozzie is on a rant about the players worried more about their football games in the clubhouse than the game.

He could accuse us of that; how many of us are paying more attention to football these days? Then again, we are not being paid seven figures to play ball.

BainesHOF
09-26-2009, 10:32 PM
An embarrassing night for the organization all the way around. I wouldn't mind Ozzie's tirade if he hadn't been arguing with people in the stands while leaving Garica in the game far too long.

Brian26
09-26-2009, 10:34 PM
He could accuse us of that; how many of us are paying more attention to football these days? Then again, we are not being paid seven figures to play ball.

People aren't coming over to my house and paying for parking, tickets and concessions to watch me watch football.

That would be a nice deal though. :redneck

shingo10
09-26-2009, 10:42 PM
A.J. was probably watching the Gators during his night off. Tsk Tsk. That's a total guess though, not trying to start anything.

A real number 3 hitter would be a nice addition to next year's club. Another great thing would be the absence of Linebrink. He does not belong in the majors right now.

Tragg
09-26-2009, 10:50 PM
Guillen needs to focus on the game and quit the bush league bull**** of arguing with people in the stands.
And the immaturity of the manager trickles down to his sidekick as well.
This organization could use some professional coaches besides Cooper.

BainesHOF
09-26-2009, 10:54 PM
A.J. was probably watching the Gators during his night off. Tsk Tsk. That's a total guess though, not trying to start anything.

I believe A.J. was a late scratch from tonight's game.

Viva Medias B's
09-26-2009, 10:56 PM
I believe A.J. was a late scratch from tonight's game.

Castro was the scratch; A.J. given the night off.

A. Cavatica
09-26-2009, 10:56 PM
I'd like to know who those players were...

Brian26
09-26-2009, 10:56 PM
I believe A.J. was a late scratch from tonight's game.

I think Castro was the late scratch.

soxinem1
09-26-2009, 11:09 PM
Damn Kittens were like Pirhanas on Freddie in the 7th while Ozzie jabbered with fans

He's been doing this **** since he was a player.

Being a nice guy BEFORE games is one thing, like he did with hi im skot's sister the other day, but this nonsense of chatting with fans during the game is bull****.

Guillen will never be the brilliant stategist type, but he gets paid enough to pay attention to the ballgames. Because he is a weak strategist, I would think he'd be better served by taking his ADD medicine and being serious himself. Plus, it is his job.

If Jerry Manuel ever did that he would have been thrown to the rats.

ode to veeck
09-26-2009, 11:09 PM
I think Castro was the late scratch.

The Sox needed a lot more *scratch* tonight

WhiteSoxOnly
09-26-2009, 11:18 PM
He's been doing this **** since he was a player.

Being a nice guy BEFORE games is one thing, like he did with hi im skot's sister the other day, but this nonsense of chatting with fans during the game is bull****.

Guillen will never be the brilliant stategist type, but he gets paid enough to pay attention to the ballgames. Because he is a weak strategist, I would think he'd be better served by taking his ADD medicine and being serious himself. Plus, it is his job.

If Jerry Manuel ever did that he would have been thrown to the rats.

He ended up in New York,no bigger rathole exists.

Domeshot17
09-27-2009, 12:00 AM
A little late Ozzie. This team hasn't had any pride for a month. Truth be told I would rather just lose and finish with a protected pick so we can sign a type A FA hitter for the middle of the order.

hi im skot
09-27-2009, 12:12 AM
I was sitting next to the fan who Ozzie was yelling at. Unfortunately, I didn't catch what was said; I can tell you that he was going after a Detroit fan who was a loudmouth the entire game. He finally yelled something at Ozzie and Ozzie went right back at him.

Though I haven't heard any postgame, it sounds like it's being blown up more than it should.

However, Ozzie definitely dropped the ball with Garcia tonight. Of course, the bullpen was garbage anyway.

tstrike2000
09-27-2009, 12:15 AM
Oh jeez, just another broken record. The end of the rotation is just about an automatic loss, the offense doesn't score runs, when they do score runs, someone in the bullpen blows it, and Ozzie rants about it when things are bad. Thankfully, it's done in a week.

doublem23
09-27-2009, 12:23 AM
If Jerry Manuel ever did that he would have been thrown to the rats.

Jerry Manuel also never won anything.

soxinem1
09-27-2009, 12:38 AM
Jerry Manuel also never won anything.

http://teampins.com/whitesox2000.jpg

Domeshot17
09-27-2009, 01:00 AM
Jerry Manuel also never won anything.

The sooner we completely forget about 2005, the better. This excuse is so tired and old. OH ITS OKAY FOR OZZIE TO SUCK NOW BECAUSE HE DID WIN US A TITLE, OH ITS OKAY THAT KENNY HAS FIELDED 3 YEARS OF A POOR ROSTER IN A ROW, HE WON US A TITLE.

I know Ozzie and KW are trying, but my god. What if we gave the players that slack. We would still have Cotts and Politte, Widger and Uribe. Why put Kotsay on the bench, WE WON A TITLE WITH TIMO PEREZ!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am thrilled we won a title. Ozzie was the right guy to manage that 25 man roster. I proudly have my autographed picture of Ozzie holding that trophy displayed out. But next year is going to be 5 years removed from it, and we haven't even come close to sniffing that kind of success.

Its just become apparent we have 2 kinds of fans. One Group who got the 1 world title they just needed to get before they died so they could be a happy baseball fan, and another group who experienced the title, sees a team who can afford 90-100 mil payrolls and wants another one. It isn't that the first group doesn't want another 1, but they are happy with just 1. They can proudly wear that 2005 world series t shirt for 15 more years. For me and many of the 2nd group, it isn't that we didn't love 2005, it was the best time of my life, but Im tired of seeing the world series gear on clearance at sox fest from 2005. Im tired of looking at it. I want a 2010 world series champions hat. The only we are ever going to get it is if we can put 2005 to bed.

SBSoxFan
09-27-2009, 01:21 AM
I was sitting next to the fan who Ozzie was yelling at. Unfortunately, I didn't catch what was said; I can tell you that he was going after a Detroit fan who was a loudmouth the entire game. He finally yelled something at Ozzie and Ozzie went right back at him.

Though I haven't heard any postgame, it sounds like it's being blown up more than it should.

However, Ozzie definitely dropped the ball with Garcia tonight. Of course, the bullpen was garbage anyway.

Ozzie also said in the post game press conference that the bullpen was short. Both DJ and Dotel were out. So, they were trying to coax another inning out of Garcia. Unfortunately it didn't work. Which is a shame too, because he was rolling until 2 out in the fifth.

doublem23
09-27-2009, 01:54 AM
http://teampins.com/whitesox2000.jpg

That just ended up being Year #83.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2000_ALDS2.shtml

basilesox
09-27-2009, 01:58 AM
The sooner we completely forget about 2005, the better. This excuse is so tired and old. OH ITS OKAY FOR OZZIE TO SUCK NOW BECAUSE HE DID WIN US A TITLE, OH ITS OKAY THAT KENNY HAS FIELDED 3 YEARS OF A POOR ROSTER IN A ROW, HE WON US A TITLE.

I know Ozzie and KW are trying, but my god. What if we gave the players that slack. We would still have Cotts and Politte, Widger and Uribe. Why put Kotsay on the bench, WE WON A TITLE WITH TIMO PEREZ!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am thrilled we won a title. Ozzie was the right guy to manage that 25 man roster. I proudly have my autographed picture of Ozzie holding that trophy displayed out. But next year is going to be 5 years removed from it, and we haven't even come close to sniffing that kind of success.

Its just become apparent we have 2 kinds of fans. One Group who got the 1 world title they just needed to get before they died so they could be a happy baseball fan, and another group who experienced the title, sees a team who can afford 90-100 mil payrolls and wants another one. It isn't that the first group doesn't want another 1, but they are happy with just 1. They can proudly wear that 2005 world series t shirt for 15 more years. For me and many of the 2nd group, it isn't that we didn't love 2005, it was the best time of my life, but Im tired of seeing the world series gear on clearance at sox fest from 2005. Im tired of looking at it. I want a 2010 world series champions hat. The only we are ever going to get it is if we can put 2005 to bed.

Excellent post bro..couldn't agree with you more. Guillen and Williams have been far below average since their amazing 2005 run. How long will that 2005 world series run spare them from being judged for their mediocrity since?

doublem23
09-27-2009, 02:05 AM
The sooner we completely forget about 2005, the better. This excuse is so tired and old. OH ITS OKAY FOR OZZIE TO SUCK NOW BECAUSE HE DID WIN US A TITLE, OH ITS OKAY THAT KENNY HAS FIELDED 3 YEARS OF A POOR ROSTER IN A ROW, HE WON US A TITLE.

I know Ozzie and KW are trying, but my god. What if we gave the players that slack. We would still have Cotts and Politte, Widger and Uribe. Why put Kotsay on the bench, WE WON A TITLE WITH TIMO PEREZ!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am thrilled we won a title. Ozzie was the right guy to manage that 25 man roster. I proudly have my autographed picture of Ozzie holding that trophy displayed out. But next year is going to be 5 years removed from it, and we haven't even come close to sniffing that kind of success.

Its just become apparent we have 2 kinds of fans. One Group who got the 1 world title they just needed to get before they died so they could be a happy baseball fan, and another group who experienced the title, sees a team who can afford 90-100 mil payrolls and wants another one. It isn't that the first group doesn't want another 1, but they are happy with just 1. They can proudly wear that 2005 world series t shirt for 15 more years. For me and many of the 2nd group, it isn't that we didn't love 2005, it was the best time of my life, but Im tired of seeing the world series gear on clearance at sox fest from 2005. Im tired of looking at it. I want a 2010 world series champions hat. The only we are ever going to get it is if we can put 2005 to bed.

Holy crap, don't make yourself out to be such a frickin martyr... "I want to win the World Series in 2010, I'M SO MUCH MORE HARDCORE THAN YOU GUYS WHO STILL FONDLY RECALL 2005."

That said, the night the Sox won the World Series, I vowed to give KW and Ozzie a total free pass for the next 5 seasons. I didn't care what happened, they got the job done that so many others had failed. You may call that unnecessary or harmful nostalgia if you feel, but considering the Sox have 1 World Series, 2 division titles, and 2 90-win seasons under their belts in the past 5 years, I think you jumping the gun when you call for Ozzie's head like he's as replaceable as a middle reliever or utility infielder. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

JB98
09-27-2009, 02:19 AM
Garcia has been good for the Sox, but he stunk tonight. Ozzie left him in too long, but really, the bullpen screwed the pooch anyway. If Ozzie had pulled Freddy at the proper time, the Sox still would have gotten their asses kicked.

whitesoxfan
09-27-2009, 02:48 AM
Holy crap, don't make yourself out to be such a frickin martyr... "I want to win the World Series in 2010, I'M SO MUCH MORE HARDCORE THAN YOU GUYS WHO STILL FONDLY RECALL 2005."

That said, the night the Sox won the World Series, I vowed to give KW and Ozzie a total free pass for the next 5 seasons. I didn't care what happened, they got the job done that so many others had failed. You may call that unnecessary or harmful nostalgia if you feel, but considering the Sox have 1 World Series, 2 division titles, and 2 90-win seasons under their belts in the past 5 years, I think you jumping the gun when you call for Ozzie's head like he's as replaceable as a middle reliever or utility infielder. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

He's been the most successful Sox manager in recent memory. I don't know why people continue to want to get rid of Ozzie. Who are the other alternatives out there?

doublem23
09-27-2009, 02:50 AM
He's been the most successful Sox manager in recent memory. I don't know why people continue to want to get rid of Ozzie. Who are the other alternatives out there?

I don't know, but whoever he is would obviously win 100 games and the World Series every year.

whitesoxfan
09-27-2009, 02:54 AM
I don't know, but whoever he is would obviously win 100 games and the World Series every year.

It really doesn't make sense. A World Series ring, a team the following year that won 90 games but was in the best division in the game, and a division winner last year. Sure there have been a couple of clunkers in there but I'll take three years out of five like that every damn time.

soxfan22
09-27-2009, 05:54 AM
The sooner we completely forget about 2005, the better. This excuse is so tired and old. OH ITS OKAY FOR OZZIE TO SUCK NOW BECAUSE HE DID WIN US A TITLE, OH ITS OKAY THAT KENNY HAS FIELDED 3 YEARS OF A POOR ROSTER IN A ROW, HE WON US A TITLE.

I know Ozzie and KW are trying, but my god. What if we gave the players that slack. We would still have Cotts and Politte, Widger and Uribe. Why put Kotsay on the bench, WE WON A TITLE WITH TIMO PEREZ!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am thrilled we won a title. Ozzie was the right guy to manage that 25 man roster. I proudly have my autographed picture of Ozzie holding that trophy displayed out. But next year is going to be 5 years removed from it, and we haven't even come close to sniffing that kind of success.

Its just become apparent we have 2 kinds of fans. One Group who got the 1 world title they just needed to get before they died so they could be a happy baseball fan, and another group who experienced the title, sees a team who can afford 90-100 mil payrolls and wants another one. It isn't that the first group doesn't want another 1, but they are happy with just 1. They can proudly wear that 2005 world series t shirt for 15 more years. For me and many of the 2nd group, it isn't that we didn't love 2005, it was the best time of my life, but Im tired of seeing the world series gear on clearance at sox fest from 2005. Im tired of looking at it. I want a 2010 world series champions hat. The only we are ever going to get it is if we can put 2005 to bed.

As much as I agree with most of your post, you can't really blame those "two kinds of fans". The Sox win it all in 05 and we're over the moon, but the only way is down after that, unless you're the Yankees Organisation where you can appear to maintain a level of consistency, ok, ok, they haven't won it since 2000 but they appear to be some sort of benchmark for continued success. Probably why the Red Sox have such a "thing" about them, and I'm being polite when I refer to "a thing", (add your own description).

I digress......

Did anyone expect our beloved Sox to repeat in 06? Probably....... and when they didn't, we looked to 07, then 08 and now we're already looking at next year.

So, the hell with this year and I although some of Ozzie's decisions have been questioned, why shouldn't he rant about the players who appear to be more interested in Football than the game at hand? Let them watch Football when their season is over. Why shouldn't he argue with fans, we're as frustrated as he is! Let it all out!

Anyway, next year is what we look at, and that'll be 5 years since we won it all.

At least it isn't coming up for 102 years! :D:

dickallen15
09-27-2009, 08:51 AM
I still don't understand all the optimism for 2010 yet. I don't see how the Sox, if they don't do anything major are the favorite. Its been 10 games or so since Peavy has been back and he's won both his starts. Rios has been hitting as of late and the Sox are 2-8 in their last 10 all in their division. Very disconcerning if you ask me.

Dan H
09-27-2009, 09:13 AM
I'm with Domeshot. The White Sox can't continue to rest on the success of 2005. Five years can turn into 10 and 10 into 20 real fast. I don't want Guillen or Williams fired now. But the least we should see in 2010 is a team progressing to be a real contender again. If the team has another medioicre season in 2010, then it will be time to make a change. GMs and managers who win championships get fired when their team takes a nose dive. Guillen and Williams should be no different.

Regarding the Guillen rant: There's no excuse for players watching football during a game. The White Sox still want fans to come out in the waning part of the season even though the team is out of contention. Why should we if the players don't even care what is going on in their own game? But after the game is a different story. What do I care what they do after the game? If players aren't running out everything they hit and not hustling in the field, that's something to really get angry about.

LITTLE NELL
09-27-2009, 09:15 AM
If I was an owner my clubhouse would not look like a sports bar, these guys are getting paid millions and their minds should be on baseball, not football, playing cards, loud music and eating. The players when they set foot it that clubhouse should treat it as a place of work, not a country club. I don't blame Ozzie at all for his rant.

dickallen15
09-27-2009, 09:22 AM
If I was an owner my clubhouse would not look like a sports bar, these guys are getting paid millions and their minds should be on baseball, not football, playing cards, loud music and eating. The players when they set foot it that clubhouse should treat it as a place of work, not a country club. I don't blame Ozzie at all for his rant.

I wouldn't mind it after wins, but when you go out and embarrass yourself in front of 35,000 (big attendance night last night and there wasn't a fireworks show) albeit many were Tigers fans, cranking up the games to me is like laughing your ass off in the dugout when you are losing a game. Ozzie, who I rip occassionally, is dead on in his assessment of this situation IMO. You should feel a little something about your performance shouldn't you? They do say when you are elimated or playing meaningless games, you are playing for pride. Its time the players took it to heart. We are constantly told its a business. But its a little different than that. If you buy a washing machine and it doesn't work so well, you get a refund. If you buy a ticket to a baseball game and the guys aren't so concerned with the results you don't get a refund, but the team knows that people showing up during these games may never have been at a game before, and if they see a bad effort, may never return. On the other hand, if they see a great effort and a good game, they may be locked in forever.

Danielgosox38
09-27-2009, 09:24 AM
If I was an owner my clubhouse would not look like a sports bar, these guys are getting paid millions and their minds should be on baseball, not football, playing cards, loud music and eating. The players when they set foot it that clubhouse should treat it as a place of work, not a country club. I don't blame Ozzie at all for his rant.


I completely agree. The players may or may not give a ****, but at least Ozzie does.

southside rocks
09-27-2009, 09:40 AM
If I was an owner my clubhouse would not look like a sports bar, these guys are getting paid millions and their minds should be on baseball, not football, playing cards, loud music and eating. The players when they set foot it that clubhouse should treat it as a place of work, not a country club. I don't blame Ozzie at all for his rant.

Since PK was the only Sox player quoted in the Sun-Times today, I'm guessing that the rest of the crew took a pass on talking to the media ... Konerko said that well, he didn't see anybody watching football, but OTOH he himself is in favor of no music, no TV, no kids in the clubhouse after the team loses, so he can understand what Ozzie was yelling about.

This team, or large parts of it, gives me the same feeling that the 2007 team did: that they're resigned to losing and they don't think they can do anything about being crappy. During the '07 season we were told 'oh no, the players don't accept losing at all!' and then after the season was over, the writers told us differently.

And the 2009 team has the same vibe. I don't know why, I don't know which players are mired in it, but there are very few of the current roster that I'm actually looking forward to seeing in 2010. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Ozzie feels the same way.

We don't know what the attitudes and work ethics of various players really are, but Kenny Williams knows, and his off-season activity will tell us quite a bit.

LITTLE NELL
09-27-2009, 09:43 AM
I still don't understand all the optimism for 2010 yet. I don't see how the Sox, if they don't do anything major are the favorite. Its been 10 games or so since Peavy has been back and he's won both his starts. Rios has been hitting as of late and the Sox are 2-8 in their last 10 all in their division. Very disconcerning if you ask me.
I agree with you, when you look at the nucleus of this club, there's not much there. After the starting 4 along with Thornton, Beckham and TCQ(gets a pass for his injuries), who knocks your socks off? I would give Rios a fresh start next year but Dye looks like he's done, PK still has a couple good years left but he's no superstar. TCM and Getz are so-so, good and bad moments. AJ has done well but he's no Fisk. Pods has done well but he is injury prone and his defense is scary. Kotsay is a good 4th outfielder.
It looks to me like KW has his work cut out for him over the winter.

Ranger
09-27-2009, 10:09 AM
Regarding the Guillen rant: There's no excuse for players watching football during a game. The White Sox still want fans to come out in the waning part of the season even though the team is out of contention. Why should we if the players don't even care what is going on in their own game? But after the game is a different story. What do I care what they do after the game? If players aren't running out everything they hit and not hustling in the field, that's something to really get angry about.

I think it was after the game.

voodoochile
09-27-2009, 10:14 AM
Holy crap, don't make yourself out to be such a frickin martyr... "I want to win the World Series in 2010, I'M SO MUCH MORE HARDCORE THAN YOU GUYS WHO STILL FONDLY RECALL 2005."

That said, the night the Sox won the World Series, I vowed to give KW and Ozzie a total free pass for the next 5 seasons. I didn't care what happened, they got the job done that so many others had failed. You may call that unnecessary or harmful nostalgia if you feel, but considering the Sox have 1 World Series, 2 division titles, and 2 90-win seasons under their belts in the past 5 years, I think you jumping the gun when you call for Ozzie's head like he's as replaceable as a middle reliever or utility infielder. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.


Yes and there's no guarantee JR approves big money for a "veteran manager" anyway. The Sox would be just as likely to give the job to Cora or even Walker if they fired OG...

I've given them an even longer window - a decade especially after last year I feel comfortable with that.

tacosalbarojas
09-27-2009, 10:35 AM
I remember when Ozzie first started managing, he was actually encouraging music on after losses, that he didn't want guys moping around. I guess it all depends on when you do it, that or he's just become jaded.

soxinem1
09-27-2009, 11:08 AM
I remember when Ozzie first started managing, he was actually encouraging music on after losses, that he didn't want guys moping around. I guess it all depends on when you do it, that or he's just become jaded.

I remember that as well. The only difference was that the effort was there. A tough loss when you battle your ass off is different that just showing up physically and not mentally, then blowing a lead after the 7th inning for the gazillionth time in 2009.

SI1020
09-27-2009, 12:23 PM
I hate being an armchair manager, but Garcia was done by the end of the fifth. DET was hitting the ball hard at people all night, Ozzie should have seen this. But just like choosing to pitch to Ichiro in the 14th Inning the last time we played SEA, Guillen is a part of this **** season too.

Even so, if Pena and Linebrink were going to bridge the gap, they'd have blown it anyway. Ozzie has always been lousy at knowing when to leave them in and take them out.

Domeshot17
09-27-2009, 12:37 PM
Holy crap, don't make yourself out to be such a frickin martyr... "I want to win the World Series in 2010, I'M SO MUCH MORE HARDCORE THAN YOU GUYS WHO STILL FONDLY RECALL 2005."

That said, the night the Sox won the World Series, I vowed to give KW and Ozzie a total free pass for the next 5 seasons. I didn't care what happened, they got the job done that so many others had failed. You may call that unnecessary or harmful nostalgia if you feel, but considering the Sox have 1 World Series, 2 division titles, and 2 90-win seasons under their belts in the past 5 years, I think you jumping the gun when you call for Ozzie's head like he's as replaceable as a middle reliever or utility infielder. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

I wasn't saying 1 group was better than others, just different. I think total amnesty is horribly bad 4 years later but that is me. Truthfully I wish I could still love 2005. I mean I do, I always will, Im an autograph collector and Ive got 1/2 my collection dedicated to signed pictures ranging from Uribes catch in the stands to blums homer to pods homer and PKs grand slam. Have an awesome flag opening ceremony picture from 2005 game 1 of the WS. But I just want another one. I think this free pass, this 1 was good enough attitude, will get us 1 title and another 90 years without one.

Also to be fair, I haven't said Fire Ozzie this year. I have said many times I give him until the ASB next year, and if the ship is not righted, he should be gone.

SI1020
09-27-2009, 12:42 PM
Jerry Manuel also never won anything. Either did Gene Mauch and I'd take him over Ozzie in a heartbeat.

Noneck
09-27-2009, 01:07 PM
Either did Gene Mauch and I'd take him over Ozzie in a heartbeat.

Bob Brenly won a WS, 2 Divisions, A 98 win season and 2 90+ seasons out of 4. He hasn't managed now in 5 years. Winning a WS doesn't make you a good manager, Its all about being in the right place at the right time.

Viva Medias B's
09-27-2009, 07:34 PM
I don't think this has been posted, but there was a funny aspect of Ozzie's postgame presser last night. At the ballpark, the press conference is usually shown on the DiamondVision. Well, when Ozzie appeared and started saying "SONS OF....," they suddenly cut it off the board.

doublem23
09-27-2009, 08:08 PM
Either did Gene Mauch and I'd take him over Ozzie in a heartbeat.

Lucky for all of us then, you're main contribution to this team is posting on a fansite. :cool:

soxinem1
09-27-2009, 08:44 PM
Either did Gene Mauch and I'd take him over Ozzie in a heartbeat.

I hope not. He's dead..

SI1020
09-27-2009, 09:09 PM
I hope not. He's dead.. I'd take Earl Weaver and Leo Durocher too. One of them is still alive right?

southside rocks
09-27-2009, 09:49 PM
I'd take Earl Weaver and Leo Durocher too. One of them is still alive right?

Leo the Lip's been dead for about 18 years now. Weaver is a sprightly 79 years old. And you really want Weaver's 'long ball or nothing at all' approach? Isn't that what we're tired of here, the reliance on the homerun?

Hitmen77
09-27-2009, 11:25 PM
I still don't understand all the optimism for 2010 yet. I don't see how the Sox, if they don't do anything major are the favorite. Its been 10 games or so since Peavy has been back and he's won both his starts. Rios has been hitting as of late and the Sox are 2-8 in their last 10 all in their division. Very disconcerning if you ask me.

I agree with you, when you look at the nucleus of this club, there's not much there. After the starting 4 along with Thornton, Beckham and TCQ(gets a pass for his injuries), who knocks your socks off? I would give Rios a fresh start next year but Dye looks like he's done, PK still has a couple good years left but he's no superstar. TCM and Getz are so-so, good and bad moments. AJ has done well but he's no Fisk. Pods has done well but he is injury prone and his defense is scary. Kotsay is a good 4th outfielder.
It looks to me like KW has his work cut out for him over the winter.

The thing is, with our rotation's potential next year (a very solid 1-4 and even #5 starter looking good with the way Garcia and Hudson have been pitching for us), we don't need a completely dominant offense to be a contender. We just need a competent offense - which is certainly what was missing this year.

The biggest thing KW needs to do is get a proven power hitter (corner OF or DH) for the heart of our lineup. The other big thing the Sox have to count on offense-wise is hope that Quentin and Rios bounce back.....but there's really nothing KW can do about those two guys at this point.

Of course, in addition to a great starting rotation and a competent offense, the other thing we need is at least an average bullpen. With Dotel apparently being told that the Sox won't bring him back and with Jenks possibly gone or on the decline, this may be a problem area yet again next year. Pena and Linebrink are almost certain to be part of our bullpen and both of those guys have been terrible.

Nellie_Fox
09-28-2009, 12:46 AM
Yes and there's no guarantee JR approves big money for a "veteran manager" anyway. The Sox would be just as likely to give the job to Cora or even Walker if they fired OG... :stirpot:

SI1020
09-28-2009, 08:15 AM
Leo the Lip's been dead for about 18 years now. Weaver is a sprightly 79 years old. And you really want Weaver's 'long ball or nothing at all' approach? Isn't that what we're tired of here, the reliance on the homerun? There was a lot more to Weaver then long ball or nothing. Although in fairness I think he was quoted once as saying "pitching, defense, three run homer" as his philosophy.

voodoochile
09-28-2009, 09:55 AM
:stirpot:

:tongue:

southside rocks
09-28-2009, 11:05 AM
There was a lot more to Weaver then long ball or nothing. Although in fairness I think he was quoted once as saying "pitching, defense, three run homer" as his philosophy.

He was no fan of anything resembling "small-ball", as is summarized in his Wiki entry that references his book, Weaver on Strategy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Weaver

Obviously, Weaver was a tremendous, and tremendously successful, manager. I think that a different approach is in order for the 2010 White Sox, that's all.

SI1020
09-28-2009, 03:34 PM
He was no fan of anything resembling "small-ball", as is summarized in his Wiki entry that references his book, Weaver on Strategy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Weaver

Obviously, Weaver was a tremendous, and tremendously successful, manager. I think that a different approach is in order for the 2010 White Sox, that's all. You're right, a different approach is needed, no argument there. I was just being a little flippant in a joking way to the Mauch comment. That and it's very unpopular to the point of sacrilege to some if you're critical in any way of Ozzie. I will say this about Weaver. He seemed to save some of the biggest tricks in his bag for the White Sox. Including an Eddie Murray steal of home in the 12th inning of an August 15, 1979 game against a young an inexperienced Sox pitcher Guy Hoffman. Weaver had his philosophy but he knew how to beat you many ways. I really liked him, and again you're correct about needing a different style and philosophy.