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PhillipsBubba
09-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Heard Joe Cowley on the radio this morning.

He said the Sox don't need much to contend next year.:scratch:

I disagree!

Perhaps they can win a bad division with some tweaking but to be a viable World Series contender, they need lots of help.

Hey Joe...it's going to take a lot more than Chone Figgins to straighten this team out.

JermaineDye05
09-26-2009, 04:06 PM
They don't. Look at their starting 5

1) Peavy
2) Buehrle
3) Floyd
4) Danks
5) ???? Garcia? Someone else?

the 5th starter doesn't really matter with that starting 4. They can win a lot of games. Everyone in that rotation is going to benefit with the addition of Jake.

The offense won't be as bad as it's been. Beckham will have a full year under his belt as would Getz. Ramirez is above average in production for a shortstop, hopefully he'll fix his mental errors. Quentin should be healthy and Rios will be better.

They really don't need that many pieces to be able to run away with the division next year. Another arm or 2 in the pen, a lead off guy and/or DH

doublem23
09-26-2009, 04:30 PM
If everyone on the roster plays up to their potential next year (I'm looking at you, TCQ and Alex Rios), the Sox really don't have many holes to plug next year. Honestly the only thing they need is a lead-off option, depending on what happens to Scotty Pods, and maybe 1-2 more bullpen arms depending on what happens to Jenks/Thornton.

DumpJerry
09-26-2009, 04:37 PM
Heard Joe Cowley on the radio this morning.

He said the Sox don't need much to contend next year.:scratch:

I disagree!
He is correct, so what part of that do you disagree with?

Dan H
09-26-2009, 04:56 PM
I think the Sox have many problems facing them despite having a good looking starting staff. They have no power from the left side with Thome gone. And Dye and Konerko on the down side of their careers, especially Dye. To go long with that Quentin and Rios are too big ifs offensively. The Sox went into this season with a lot of ifs and look how things have turned out.

This is not the first time Buehrle has gone it into one of his funks where he can barely pick up a win in a six-eight week period. Garcia has looked good but we can only hope he will be a steady #5 starter.

Despite winning the divison championship last year, the White Sox have still played under .500 since the all-star break break in 2006. I hope the team is pro-active this off season. If not, we'll again be talking about how we hate the Twins.

Domeshot17
09-26-2009, 05:00 PM
I would say the Sox are in trouble. Not one guy on that roster I trust to drive in 100 runs next year. Trusting Carlos Quentin is beginning to be like trusting Kerry Wood. When hes here hes good, but something new hurts every year.

Redus Redux
09-26-2009, 05:04 PM
Trusting Carlos Quentin to have a good year is like trusting another player. Anyone can be bad. At least in this case we can look at it possibly being the result of a big injury.

I'd rather be counting on a guy that once had an MVP type year...than one that didnt.

To win, you need a few things to roll your way. Him and another corner OF/DH are going to have to come through. We'll need Beckham to take a next step....and we need AJP, Pods and Konerko to be at or slightly worse than what they gave us this year.

soxinem1
09-26-2009, 05:04 PM
They don't. Look at their starting 5

1) Peavy
2) Buehrle
3) Floyd
4) Danks
5) ???? Garcia? Someone else?

the 5th starter doesn't really matter with that starting 4. They can win a lot of games. Everyone in that rotation is going to benefit with the addition of Jake.

With the fifth starter issues the White Sox have had in most of the past, oh, 14 seasons, I beg to differ with that.

mzh
09-26-2009, 05:05 PM
They have no power from the left side with Thome gone.

Remember how the Cubs won 97 games in 08 despite no lefty power? They made up for that by having the 4th best team ERA in baseball. Then Hendry tried to fix this "problem" of no left handed bats, and look where Milton Bradley and Aaron Miles got them.

oeo
09-26-2009, 05:05 PM
I would say the Sox are in trouble. Not one guy on that roster I trust to drive in 100 runs next year. Trusting Carlos Quentin is beginning to be like trusting Kerry Wood. When hes here hes good, but something new hurts every year.

Every year? He's been here for two. The first year he was healthy up until he hit his bat. It's too early to say he's injury prone as they've mostly been freak injuries.

Domeshot17
09-26-2009, 05:07 PM
Every year? He's been here for two. The first year he was healthy up until he hit his bat. It's too early to say he's injury prone as they've mostly been freak injuries.

Why do you think AZ let him go, that was his rap his entire time there as well. He had to play through injuries in college also.

soxinem1
09-26-2009, 05:08 PM
Despite winning the divison championship last year, the White Sox have still played under .500 since the all-star break break in 2006. I hope the team is pro-active this off season. If not, we'll again be talking about how we hate the Twins.

We might be throwing DET and KC on that list too.....

oeo
09-26-2009, 05:10 PM
Why do you think AZ let him go, that was his rap his entire time there as well. He had to play through injuries in college also.

Because they thought they had their outfield set with Young (who they signed to a long term deal the following April), Upton, and the signing of Eric Byrnes.

soxinem1
09-26-2009, 05:11 PM
Every year? He's been here for two. The first year he was healthy up until he hit his bat. It's too early to say he's injury prone as they've mostly been freak injuries.

It's not too early and it should be a concern. He had injuries with both ARI and when he was in college.

Plus, punching your bat was a stupid thing to do, and his foot ailment was the same one derailed the career of Marty Cordova, the former MIN Rookie of the Year who never recovered from it.

oeo
09-26-2009, 05:18 PM
It's not too early and it should be a concern. He had injuries with both ARI and when he was in college.

He played in nearly every college game in his career. The first time he missed significant time was in 2007. Sorry, a couple of fluke injuries remind me more of Jermaine Dye than Kerry Wood.

Plus, punching your bat was a stupid thing to do, and his foot ailment was the same one derailed the career of Marty Cordova, the former MIN Rookie of the Year who never recovered from it.

Yes, it's obviously stupid to punch your bat, but it wasn't the first time he did it. It was a fluke.

People said a lot of the same things about Quentin's wrist this year. I believe they compared it to Derek Lee's wrist and how he lost all his power. Fact of the matter is, every case is different and it will effect the player differently. Do you have any idea of comparisons between Cordova and Quentin's injury?

JermaineDye05
09-26-2009, 05:36 PM
With the fifth starter issues the White Sox have had in most of the past, oh, 14 seasons, I beg to differ with that.

I can't remember the Sox having a 1-4 as strong as this in all the years I've been a White Sox fan. Each guy has the potential to win 15 games. We know what Peavy and Buehrle can do. Floyd won 17 games in 2008. Danks, with a little more run support and bullpen support, could have had 15+ wins in both 2008 and 2009.

I don't want to say the 5th starter spot is not important but we don't need that good of a pitcher for that. If Freddy can come back and go 9-9, I think that'd be good enough for this team with the 1-4 they have.

munchman33
09-26-2009, 06:35 PM
I don't think the Sox have a problem with their 5th starter mix for next year. But food for thought for those that think a solid rotation is enough: the 2009 Chicago White Sox lead the American League in quality starts.

Corlose 15
09-26-2009, 06:42 PM
I think if you look at what has happened this year with the Sox you probably need to take it from Buehrle's perfect game. With that game, despite everyone bitching about the Sox using Colon, Contreras, Richard, the Sox were tied for 1st and 5 games over .500. We all know where the season has gone since then.

To me some of the biggest culprits in the collapse have been.

1. Dye completely falling off the face of the earth
2. Quentin and Rios both struggling
3. Buehrle winning one game since his perfect game with an ERA over 5
4. The bullpen losing some of it's effectiveness

You could probably add Contreras absolutely imploding after the Peavy trade, but Buehrle's struggles made it harder for the staff to absorb that.

I think as you look forward, if Quentin and Rios get healthy and play up to their respective abilities. You get a versatile LH run producer to play OF/DH and you maybe add a bullpen arm you've got a very good team.

harwar
09-26-2009, 07:20 PM
i believe the bullpen to be the most important thing to focus on .. score just enough runs to win the game .. i'm excited about our infield next year and who knows what the ceiling on Beckham may be .. Rios personal problems will be behind him .. i don't see Pods being as good as he was this year though .. left field may be a concern ..

gobears1987
09-26-2009, 07:20 PM
The Sox don't need much. We have 6 viable starting pitchers (only need 5) and our line-up is good if everyone produces at the level they should. We had a bunch of players under perform this year. Now the pen needs work, but that shouldn't be hard to patch up.

central44
09-26-2009, 07:35 PM
There's nothing wrong with the Sox infield at all, assuming that Beckham, Ramirez and Getz all improve with experience (which they probably will), and if the Sox stick to their plan to emphasize defense.

JD needs to be replaced. I don't know who is out there to replace him with, but anyone younger who can hit for solid average should be fine. Rios and Quentin will almost certainly be here and both are capable of good things. Whether they perform/stay healthy will be seen, but the Sox probably don't need to address any position except one of the corner outfield spots.

In terms of pitching, yeah it would be nice to see the bullpen get looked at. But let's see what Tony Pena can do after Coop has a chance to really work with him. He has a chance to be a very good setup man and replacement for Thornton, who could make a very good closer if Bobby is on the way out.

Either way though, it seems to me that with experience for the young guys, combined with a change in philosophy, this team really doesn't need to make major personnel moves to be a legitimate contender in 2010. Ironically, they may be better positioned for a future World Series run right now than they were at the end of 2008.

Scottiehaswheels
09-26-2009, 09:17 PM
Don't forget, no more Dome next year as well, I think that will affect the division race as well.

GoGoCrede
09-26-2009, 09:23 PM
It's Cowley.

Hitmen77
09-27-2009, 12:42 AM
They don't. Look at their starting 5

1) Peavy
2) Buehrle
3) Floyd
4) Danks
5) ???? Garcia? Someone else?

the 5th starter doesn't really matter with that starting 4. They can win a lot of games. Everyone in that rotation is going to benefit with the addition of Jake.

The offense won't be as bad as it's been. Beckham will have a full year under his belt as would Getz. Ramirez is above average in production for a shortstop, hopefully he'll fix his mental errors. Quentin should be healthy and Rios will be better.

They really don't need that many pieces to be able to run away with the division next year. Another arm or 2 in the pen, a lead off guy and/or DH

They really need a power hitter for the heart of our lineup to replace the void left by Thome and Dye's departure (i'll be very surprised if Dye is back next year).

Lead off guy? I'm guessing that given budget constraints that they'll go with Pods again as our DH. So, part of our success will depend not only on Quentin and Rios rebounding, but also Pods somehow having a 2nd consecutive successful season.

The bullpen will definitely be a question mark. Jenks may have pitched his last game for us. It sounds like Dotel is all but gone for next year. Maybe some of our minor league prospects (Nunez, Hudson?) will step up and fill bullpen roles next year.

I think the Sox have many problems facing them despite having a good looking starting staff. They have no power from the left side with Thome gone. And Dye and Konerko on the down side of their careers, especially Dye. To go long with that Quentin and Rios are too big ifs offensively. The Sox went into this season with a lot of ifs and look how things have turned out.

This is not the first time Buehrle has gone it into one of his funks where he can barely pick up a win in a six-eight week period. Garcia has looked good but we can only hope he will be a steady #5 starter.

Despite winning the divison championship last year, the White Sox have still played under .500 since the all-star break break in 2006. I hope the team is pro-active this off season. If not, we'll again be talking about how we hate the Twins.

Dye most likely won't be back. But the production that he and Thome provided for most of the last 4 seasons will need to be replaced somehow.

russ99
09-27-2009, 12:56 AM
The Sox don't need much. We have 6 viable starting pitchers (only need 5) and our line-up is good if everyone produces at the level they should. We had a bunch of players under perform this year. Now the pen needs work, but that shouldn't be hard to patch up.

I agree with your sentiment, but there are the two holes in the lineup and they're the two toughest holes to fill: leadoff and lefty power bat (be it an outfielder or DH). Besides, it will take a good hitter to replace what we're giving up with Dye, even for average numbers from Dye.

Also, acquiring two relievers who can handle pressure situations is tough unless you want to overpay salary on the FA market. Something tells me we're going to have to rely on one of Pena and Linebrink to bounce back.

And, if we really want to contend, we need to get a few capable players for the bench (assuming Pods and Kotsay sign elsewhere) and one for back end of the rotation, since relying on kids from AA and 40 year olds are what got us into trouble this season.

Domeshot17
09-27-2009, 01:05 AM
I agree with your sentiment, but there are the two holes in the lineup and they're the two toughest holes to fill: leadoff and lefty power bat (be it an outfielder or DH). Besides, it will take a good hitter to replace what we're giving up with Dye, even for average numbers from Dye.

Also, acquiring two relievers who can handle pressure situations is tough unless you want to overpay salary on the FA market. Something tells me we're going to have to rely on one of Pena and Linebrink to bounce back.

And, if we really want to contend, we need to get a few capable players for the bench (assuming Pods and Kotsay sign elsewhere) and one for back end of the rotation, since relying on kids from AA and 40 year olds are what got us into trouble this season.

I do not understand this thought process. Our fan base just drives me nuts sometimes. I know we have to be cautious with Pods next year but here is what this thread has said:

Despite a loss every 5th day from the 5th spot this year, the 5th spot doesnt matter.

Despite the fact Scotty Pods is the only viable candidate for the TEAM MVP award, and the fact he has a higher average and OPS than Alexei, he has to be replaced. Pods and his .300 average are just not good enough, but we will be fine with Quentin and his low average high power and Rios who hit sub 250 for us.

It is apparently a given next year that (a) Pods will suck (b) Quentin will return to MVP form and stay healthy and (c) Rios will suddenly care about baseball next year and work hard and come back to form.

For me, especially with payroll already stretched, I try and keep pods on the cheap and sped the money on the middle of the order hitter. If we spend 7 mil on figgins and have nothing to find a lefty power hitter with, its going to be a long long year.

Also, overpaying in the FA Market is exactly why we have linebrink

WhiteSox5187
09-27-2009, 01:10 AM
Really the only thing that needs to be fixed with any sense of urgency is the bullpen. That needs to be completely rehauled, everything else, I feel ok with. Adding Chone Figgins certainly would help things quite a bit offensively, but he's almost a luxury. The bullpen NEEDS to be issue number 1 this off season

VMSNS
09-27-2009, 01:25 AM
We need a RF who is a run producer, and a competent 5th starter in case Freddy breaks down (which, let's face it, he probably will). A veteran presence in the middle infield would be nice, too, but that's probably not going to happen.

The organization shouldn't put too much pressure on Beckham for next year. Kenny made that mistake this season by expecting Alexei, Floyd, Danks, and Quentin to all have the same success they had last season. Look where that got us.

doublem23
09-27-2009, 01:50 AM
It is apparently a given next year that (a) Pods will suck (b) Quentin will return to MVP form and stay healthy and (c) Rios will suddenly care about baseball next year and work hard and come back to form.

You are confusing "this will happen" with "this needs to happen if we're going to be any good next year."

basilesox
09-27-2009, 02:06 AM
Sorry not trying to sound like a broken record here. However, I believe Sox SP will be the best in the central and possibly the AL. That being said if our bullpen and defense (which you can argue are both currently worst in the AL) doesn't improve we have no shot at the playoffs next year.

DSpivack
09-27-2009, 02:35 AM
Sorry not trying to sound like a broken record here. However, I believe Sox SP will be the best in the central and possibly the AL. That being said if our bullpen and defense (which you can argue are both currently worst in the AL) doesn't improve we have no shot at the playoffs next year.

I'm not worried about the pitching staff next year. As for the defense, it's not good and that's a concern, sure.

But for the first time in a very long time with this team, it's the ability to score runs that I'm worried about. We're near the bottom of the league in most offensive categories, and we most likely lose two of our better hitters from this season, in Thome and Dye.

russ99
09-27-2009, 02:40 AM
I do not understand this thought process. Our fan base just drives me nuts sometimes. I know we have to be cautious with Pods next year but here is what this thread has said:

Despite a loss every 5th day from the 5th spot this year, the 5th spot doesnt matter.

Despite the fact Scotty Pods is the only viable candidate for the TEAM MVP award, and the fact he has a higher average and OPS than Alexei, he has to be replaced. Pods and his .300 average are just not good enough, but we will be fine with Quentin and his low average high power and Rios who hit sub 250 for us.

It is apparently a given next year that (a) Pods will suck (b) Quentin will return to MVP form and stay healthy and (c) Rios will suddenly care about baseball next year and work hard and come back to form.

For me, especially with payroll already stretched, I try and keep pods on the cheap and sped the money on the middle of the order hitter. If we spend 7 mil on figgins and have nothing to find a lefty power hitter with, its going to be a long long year.

Also, overpaying in the FA Market is exactly why we have linebrink

Hey, I'm a huge Scotty Pods fan, and I have his jersey. But even I don't think he'll hit .300 next year and he's not in the top 10 in either OBP or steals. If the Sox can improve that spot in the order, they should.

He's a FA too, and I have concerns if he'll be re-signed. Would Kenny pay him $2M+ a season? Someone else might.

And my point is that's it's difficult to acquire relievers that have a late inning track record. I'm not advocating Kenny overpay for a FA, but I also don't think 2 guys are going to fall out of the sky and into our laps for nothing. Kenny's going to have to be creative.

cards press box
09-27-2009, 08:12 AM
I think the Sox have many problems facing them despite having a good looking starting staff. They have no power from the left side with Thome gone. And Dye and Konerko on the down side of their careers, especially Dye.

Dye has been a stalwart for this franchise but I don't see him coming back. The Sox will likely play Rios in CF and Quentin in RF with LF a question mark. I imagine the Sox want to sign Chone Figgins to play LF and lead off but they may not be able to get him. If not, perhaps the Sox bring Scotty Pods back to play LF and lead off.

I also imagine that the Sox will try to add Bobby Abreu as their DH. He's 35 but is having a fine year (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/abreubo01.shtml?redir) and certainly adds some pop from the left side as well as speed, average and on-base percentage. If the Sox sign him, it would be to DH, although he could still occasionally play the corner OF slots.


Garcia has looked good but we can only hope he will be a steady #5 starter.

By next spring, Freddy Garcia will have six months additional recovery time from his surgery. If anything, he should be stronger and have better stuff. And don't forget, the Sox have Dan Hudson, too. He is pitching the last home game of the year today and he has shown a lot of promise.

Red Barchetta
09-27-2009, 11:03 AM
With the fifth starter issues the White Sox have had in most of the past, oh, 14 seasons, I beg to differ with that.

I agree! We needed each and every one of Garland's 18 wins to get into the post season in 2005. The production from that spot IMO was the deciding factor for our success. Sure, you can go back to a 4-man rotation in the playoffs, however you have to get there first.

I just hope we don't try the recycled pitchers (Colon/Garcia/Etc.) plan in 2010.

voodoochile
09-27-2009, 11:31 AM
I agree! We needed each and every one of Garland's 18 wins to get into the post season in 2005. The production from that spot IMO was the deciding factor for our success. Sure, you can go back to a 4-man rotation in the playoffs, however you have to get there first.

I just hope we don't try the recycled pitchers (Colon/Garcia/Etc.) plan in 2010.

It's Garcia's job to lose, IMO. Hudson and Torres as backup plans give them plenty of options too.

kufram
09-27-2009, 12:13 PM
So many people already know that Pods won't hit next year like he has this year. Why not let him at least PLAY himself off the team? He looks healthy to me and this is one guy who knows how to get on base.

We need to sort the bullpen and, yes, a left-handed power hitter looks obvious. Konerko needs someone batting in front of him. Much as I love Dye and Thome I think their roles have come to an end and can be replaced, but I hope not by an elderly one year rental.

The thing that the team need more than anything.... in fact, I would say the ONLY thing they really NEED to find is the will to win games that are there for the winning. The games lost this year because nobody stepped up at clutch moments are all that cost us the playoffs this year. Fix that and they are home free.