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View Full Version : *Official* Duensing has our hitters making Dunce Swings 9/23 Postgame Thread


soxinem1
09-23-2009, 11:21 PM
Until he ran out of gas. But his bullpen helped bail him out.

At least JD has been hitting the ball hard as we wind down. I hope he is in the plans for 2010.

thomas35forever
09-23-2009, 11:22 PM
A bad series in a bad season.

GlassSox
09-23-2009, 11:24 PM
This dam dome...:scratch:

samurai_sox
09-23-2009, 11:24 PM
I hate the Twins.:angry:

GrandValleyBB10
09-23-2009, 11:24 PM
At least JD has been hitting the ball hard as we wind down. I hope he is in the plans for 2010.

I honestly hope you are kidding...I can't wait to get jordan danks or mark kotsay out there next year...cannot go through another year of him clogging the bases, taking horrible routs to fly balls, and basically taking off 3 months of the season and concentrating on how much food he can eat

VMSNS
09-23-2009, 11:25 PM
Nice game by JD. Flowers also had that double, so that's good. Carlos Gomez got hit by Torres, and that also makes me happy. I hope it broke his hand.

Other than that....another day, another loss. I think I'm numb to it by now.

Patrick134
09-23-2009, 11:25 PM
I honestly hope you are kidding...I can't wait to get jordan danks or mark kotsay out there next year...cannot go through another year of him clogging the bases, taking horrible routs to fly balls, and basically taking off 3 months of the season and concentrating on how much food he can eat

?

Pear-Zin-Ski
09-23-2009, 11:25 PM
such a tease....

DirtySox
09-23-2009, 11:25 PM
I honestly hope you are kidding...I can't wait to get jordan danks or mark kotsay out there next year...cannot go through another year of him clogging the bases, taking horrible routs to fly balls, and basically taking off 3 months of the season and concentrating on how much food he can eat

Jordan Danks isn't close to ready.

Also, go Oakland go!

doublem23
09-23-2009, 11:26 PM
I honestly hope you are kidding...I can't wait to get jordan danks or mark kotsay out there next year...cannot go through another year of him clogging the bases, taking horrible routs to fly balls, and basically taking off 3 months of the season and concentrating on how much food he can eat

Danks isn't ready and if Kotsay is playing everyday in RF next year... Well, we may as well just pack it up until Opening Day 2011.

samurai_sox
09-23-2009, 11:27 PM
I'm fully expecting these last games to be JD's last in a Sox uniform.

soxinem1
09-23-2009, 11:29 PM
I honestly hope you are kidding...I can't wait to get jordan danks or mark kotsay out there next year...cannot go through another year of him clogging the bases, taking horrible routs to fly balls, and basically taking off 3 months of the season and concentrating on how much food he can eat

If Kotsay is starting more than twice a week in 2010 for anyone that team is doomed.

And as far as Jordan Danks being a viable run-producing option as a rookie....... No way.

As a DH JD will be fine. It's not like anyone else besides Konerko produced any runs all year. JD should not be the fall guy.

GrandValleyBB10
09-23-2009, 11:29 PM
Danks isn't ready and if Kotsay is playing everyday in RF next year... Well, we may as well just pack it up until Opening Day 2011.

you're right...dye is a way better option...unselfish at the plate..always trying to move runners..rarely ever strikes out...lets give him another 13 million to come back..doubtful

Domeshot17
09-23-2009, 11:29 PM
I honestly hope you are kidding...I can't wait to get jordan danks or mark kotsay out there next year...cannot go through another year of him clogging the bases, taking horrible routs to fly balls, and basically taking off 3 months of the season and concentrating on how much food he can eat

This is a joke

(1) I do agree I hope dye is gone, I think he is done, and even if he comes with a pk like year next year with 20-25 homers and 80 rbis, we cant have those 2 only combining for 50 and 170 making 24-25 mil.

(2) I have said this a million times, speed in the heart of the order is NOT NEEDED. The Sox do not have a SLOW team right now. We are in the top 6 in stolen bases in the AL. If JD goes, we sure as hell better replace him with a POWER HITTER WHO CAN DRIVE IN RUNS. We need more run producers, not another table setter

(3) Mark Kotsay is not a starter on a good team and he hasn't been for a while

(4) Jordan Danks isn't even close to being MLB ready. If he is on the roster next year, we will be a 4th place team.

doublem23
09-23-2009, 11:29 PM
I'm fully expecting these last games to be JD's last in a Sox uniform.

And this is based on what? Do you have any sort of information about this, or is this just your personal feelings? Plenty of us think Walker should have been fired months, if not over a year ago, but he's likely coming back for 2010... Dye might be gone, Dye might not come back... I haven't seen anything from the Sox that commits one way or the other.

Brian26
09-23-2009, 11:29 PM
At least JD has been hitting the ball hard as we wind down. I hope he is in the plans for 2010.

Me too....in the plans for Pittsburgh or Washington.

voodoochile
09-23-2009, 11:30 PM
I honestly hope you are kidding...I can't wait to get jordan danks or mark kotsay out there next year...cannot go through another year of him clogging the bases, taking horrible routs to fly balls, and basically taking off 3 months of the season and concentrating on how much food he can eat

Wouldn't it be enough to merely say, "I think JD is done as a full time player. I don't want to risk seeing him back in RF next year because I don't think his body can take it anymore."

Why did you feel the need to pile on a bunch of lies, exaggeration and trollish crap? It doesn't make your argument look any stronger, merely makes you look silly...

doublem23
09-23-2009, 11:30 PM
you're right...dye is a way better option...unselfish at the plate..always trying to move runners..rarely ever strikes out...lets give him another 13 million to come back..doubtful

Dye > Danks + Kotsay platooon.

I simply don't believe I even need to make an argument.

Corlose 15
09-23-2009, 11:30 PM
Boy, the Sox sure as hell could have used that Jermaine Dye the last two months.

thomas35forever
09-23-2009, 11:30 PM
Danks isn't ready and if Kotsay is playing everyday in RF next year... Well, we may as well just pack it up until Opening Day 2011.
Honestly. While I want Kotsay on the Opening Day roster in 2010, there's no way in Hell he should be playing every day. There's no way he can be consistent for an entire 162-game schedule, and that's saying something considering the number of inconsistent everyday players we've had this year. I don't know who will be in right next season, but there's no way it's Kotsay. The man is a career pinch hitter. Let him keep those duties.

Brian26
09-23-2009, 11:31 PM
I'm fully expecting these last games to be JD's last in a Sox uniform.

Nice guy, hell of a run here, but the Sox are not going to pick up an $11 million option on him at this point.

Danielgosox38
09-23-2009, 11:32 PM
Dye is probably gone. And I sure hope he is. Kenny even said himself, that he knows who has quit, and hasn't quit. It seems more than likely he thinks Dye has quit.

Frankfan4life
09-23-2009, 11:32 PM
If Kotsay is starting more than twice a week in 2010 for anyone that team is doomed.

And as far as Jordan Danks being a viable run-producing option as a rookie....... No way.

As a DH JD will be fine. It's not like anyone else besides Konerko produced any runs all year. JD should not be the fall guy.Finally, a voice of reason. Thank you.

doublem23
09-23-2009, 11:33 PM
Nice guy, hell of a run here, but the Sox are not going to pick up an $11 million option on him at this point.

Just like in 2007 when everyone knew the Sox wouldn't offer Buehrle a contract extension that included a full no-trade clause... Which is exactly what ended up happening.

soxinem1
09-23-2009, 11:33 PM
Honestly. While I want Kotsay on the Opening Day roster in 2010, there's no way in Hell he should be playing every day. There's no way he can be consistent for an entire 162-game schedule, and that's saying something considering the number of inconsistent everyday players we've had this year. I don't know who will be in right next season, but there's no way it's Kotsay. The man is a career pinch hitter. Let him keep those duties.

Kotsay was a regular for many years until he was traded to BOS last year. But his days of 500+ AB seasons should be over.

samurai_sox
09-23-2009, 11:34 PM
And this is based on what? Do you have any sort of information about this, or is this just your personal feelings? Plenty of us think Walker should have been fired months, if not over a year ago, but he's likely coming back for 2010... Dye might be gone, Dye might not come back... I haven't seen anything from the Sox that commits one way or the other.

He's ****in' DONE, nuff said

thomas35forever
09-23-2009, 11:35 PM
Kotsay was a regular for many years until he was traded to BOS last year. But his days of 500+ AB seasons should be over.
Just my point. He's had more success as a pinch hitter than any other active Major Leaguer. Keep him there and everyone will be happy with him.

doublem23
09-23-2009, 11:35 PM
He's ****in' DONE, nuff said

Since you absolutely didn't address what I asked, I'm going to pencil this as a "no."

P.S., remember when JD was "done" in 2007 and everyone what berserk when the Sox inked him to that 2-year extension, and then he had a very good 2008 season? Yeah.

BadBobbyJenks
09-23-2009, 11:35 PM
Guys I think this season might be over. I dont think we are going to catch the Tigers.

Danielgosox38
09-23-2009, 11:36 PM
He's ****in' DONE, nuff said


Yeah he probably is done bout Double M has a point. With this organization, you can never tell, due to the "loyalty".

voodoochile
09-23-2009, 11:36 PM
Guys I think this season might be over. I dont think we are going to catch the Tigers.

Say it ain't so...:whiner:

JB98
09-23-2009, 11:37 PM
Guys I think this season might be over. I dont think we are going to catch the Tigers.

If we win our last nine, and the Tigers lose their last nine, we can still catch them.

BleacherBandit
09-23-2009, 11:37 PM
Agree that Dye may be done. However, I'd like to see him suck for a whole season to make that judgment. He was pretty good the first half. Maybe we can keep him around for a few months next year to see how he recovers from this half.

I think if you can get Rios to not suck next year, we should go after a REAL CENTER FIELDER. Rios can take Dye's spot in RF.

PLEASE KENNY, GET US A CENTER FIELDER.

samurai_sox
09-23-2009, 11:37 PM
Since you absolutely didn't address what I asked, I'm going to pencil this as a "no."

That's my opinion take it however you want.

JB98
09-23-2009, 11:39 PM
Agree that Dye may be done. However, I'd like to see him suck for a whole season to make that judgment. He was pretty good the first half. Maybe we can keep him around for a few months next year to see how he recovers from this half.

I think if you can get Rios to not suck next year, we should go after a REAL CENTER FIELDER. Rios can take Dye's spot in RF.

PLEASE KENNY, GET US A CENTER FIELDER.

I'll take any outfielder who can be a middle-of-the-order run producer. Doesn't have to be a CF. Just has to be a run producer.

Lip Man 1
09-23-2009, 11:39 PM
This team is sure making their fans "proud" with the way they are finishing up the year aren't they?

Lip

Brian26
09-23-2009, 11:39 PM
Just like in 2007 when everyone knew the Sox wouldn't offer Buehrle a contract extension that included a full no-trade clause... Which is exactly what ended up happening.

Lots of differences in the situations though. Buehrle re-signed a reasonably priced deal mid-season after a nice first half (including a no-hitter) and a heaping dose of public sentiment pleading for him to re-sign.

Dye's age and disastrous 2nd half make him a huge liability right now, and quite frankly I think a large part of the Sox fan base is willing to accept his moving on. Also, this close to the end of the season and apparently no talks have occurred between the two sides. He looks like he's gone.

samurai_sox
09-23-2009, 11:40 PM
Bobby Abreu anyone?

doublem23
09-23-2009, 11:40 PM
That's my opinion take it however you want.

That's fine, I was just asking if you knew anything the rest of us don't... I personally haven't seen anything from the Sox that suggests if they'll pick up his option or not. I agree that this is likely JD's last weeks with the team, but I'm not going to go out and authoritatively declare it or be shocked if the Sox end up picking up that option. This KW. He'll do stuff like that sometime.

soxinem1
09-23-2009, 11:40 PM
Dye is probably gone. And I sure hope he is. Kenny even said himself, that he knows who has quit, and hasn't quit. It seems more than likely he thinks Dye has quit.

Where does this come from? KW didn't mention any names. The only thing you can specualte is that Dye really struggled once Rios was picked up. And it wasn't as if Rios helped Dye or the team with his production in the lineup.

But why should JD be dumped on when there is plenty of blame to go around to almost the entire roster?

It's not like Dye is the weak link. There were plenty of broken chains to blame.

voodoochile
09-23-2009, 11:40 PM
Bobby Abreu anyone?

Wrong thread and wrong forum...

Brian26
09-23-2009, 11:41 PM
However, I'd like to see him suck for a whole season to make that judgment.

A.) Are you going to pay him $11 million out of your own pocket for him to suck for an entire season?

B.) Where do you hide him in the lineup?

doublem23
09-23-2009, 11:42 PM
Dye's age and disastrous 2nd half make him a huge liability right now, and quite frankly I think a large part of the Sox fan base is willing to accept his moving on. Also, this close to the end of the season and apparently no talks have occurred between the two sides. He looks like he's gone.

It's an option, not an extension, I don't know what they'd really need to hammer out, all the provisions of JD's 2010 season in Chicago or release have already been laid out, the whole thing could probably go down in 5 minutes.

sox1970
09-23-2009, 11:42 PM
Where does this come from? KW didn't mention any names. The only thing you can specualte is that Dye really struggled once Rios was picked up. And it wasn't as if Rios helped Dye or the team with his production in the lineup.

But why should JD be dumped on when there is plenty of blame to go around to almost the entire roster?

It's not like Dye is the weak link. There were plenty of broken chains to blame.

When one of your middle of the order hitters hits well under .200 and slugs in the .200's for two months, you're damn right he's a weak link.

soxinem1
09-23-2009, 11:42 PM
Bobby Abreu anyone?

As a DH??

Don't complain about Dye if you are willing to put him in RF.

JB98
09-23-2009, 11:43 PM
Where does this come from? KW didn't mention any names. The only thing you can specualte is that Dye really struggled once Rios was picked up. And it wasn't as if Rios helped Dye or the team with his production in the lineup.

But why should JD be dumped on when there is plenty of blame to go around to almost the entire roster?

It's not like Dye is the weak link. There were plenty of broken chains to blame.

Because he's the one whose contract is up. And he's making an awful lot of money for a guy who hasn't broken the 80 RBI mark yet. So, he's the one likely to go.

Hitmen77
09-23-2009, 11:43 PM
This team is sure making their fans "proud" with the way they are finishing up the year aren't they?

Lip

It's pathetic. Total free fall at this point. In less than 2 weeks it will be over.

Danielgosox38
09-23-2009, 11:43 PM
When one of your middle of the order hitters hits well under .200 and slugs in the .200's for two months, you're damn right he's a weak link.


I don't see how it can even be argued that Dye is NOT the weak link.

samurai_sox
09-23-2009, 11:44 PM
That's fine, I was just asking if you knew anything the rest of us don't... I personally haven't seen anything from the Sox that suggests if they'll pick up his option or not. I agree that this is likely JD's last weeks with the team, but I'm not going to go out and authoritatively declare it or be shocked if the Sox end up picking up that option. This KW. He'll do stuff like that sometime.

No, I don't have any insider info. As you can see getting swept by the Twins (especially at home) always brings out the best in me. :mad:

BleacherBandit
09-23-2009, 11:44 PM
A.) Are you going to pay him $11 million out of your own pocket for him to suck for an entire season?

B.) Where do you hide him in the lineup?

I didn't know the characteristics of his contract.

You don't have to "hide" him if he's playing well. That's a condition of the hypothetical situation I've devised.

sox1970
09-23-2009, 11:45 PM
I don't see how it can even be argued that Dye is NOT the weak link.

He's certainly one of them. The bullpen has been bad. Dye and Rios have been brutal. It's a bad team, but I think they can be a lot better with a few smart moves.

voodoochile
09-23-2009, 11:45 PM
When one of your middle of the order hitters hits well under .200 and slugs in the .200's for two months, you're damn right he's a weak link.

I agree and I don't see any way the Sox pick up the option, but if KW views it as just a prolonged slump and not a sign of impending break down and/or thinks JD can be productive if he plays less in the OF, then he might sign him to a 2 year extension for 10-12M total and let him split time at RF and DH.

BadBobbyJenks
09-23-2009, 11:46 PM
A.) Are you going to pay him $11 million out of your own pocket for him to suck for an entire season?



A) What is the point of a post like this? Obviously he is not.

B) Did Dye's career all of a sudden end in the 2nd half of this season?

voodoochile
09-23-2009, 11:47 PM
I don't see how it can even be argued that Dye is NOT the weak link.

Well it's kind of relative now isn't it? At the end of the season he's still going to end up close to 30HR with a two month slump. If he had the current numbers he has now but it was more evenly spaced out over the year, people wouldn't be that upset. Disappointed, but less willing to toss him out the door face first...

Ward Hershberger
09-23-2009, 11:48 PM
Agree that Dye may be done. However, I'd like to see him suck for a whole season to make that judgment. He was pretty good the first half. Maybe we can keep him around for a few months next year to see how he recovers from this half.

I think if you can get Rios to not suck next year, we should go after a REAL CENTER FIELDER. Rios can take Dye's spot in RF.

PLEASE KENNY, GET US A CENTER FIELDER.

Great point - I don't think Rios is the answer - a Good CF woul dhave caught Punto's 2-run single in the 7th, not backed off and let it fall in - easpecially in that situation

VMSNS
09-23-2009, 11:49 PM
Since Kenny seems to be handing out contract extensions to coaches today like it's candy, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if he went and did some stupid like pick up Dye's option.

Hitmen77
09-23-2009, 11:49 PM
A.) Are you going to pay him $11 million out of your own pocket for him to suck for an entire season?

B.) Where do you hide him in the lineup?

There is absolutely no way Dye's option will be picked up. If he's back at all it will be under a completely new contract and a much lower price.

....but his 2nd half collapse has been so stunning, you really have to wonder if the Sox can really take the chance on bringing him back even at a discounted salary. It's not like he just faded or tailed off, his production totally collapsed.

Is tonight's performance a sign that he's "snapping out of it" and could produce for us in 2010 or just a fluke in an otherwise stunningly bad decline of an aging star?

tdwiek
09-23-2009, 11:49 PM
Agree that Dye may be done. However, I'd like to see him suck for a whole season to make that judgment. He was pretty good the first half. Maybe we can keep him around for a few months next year to see how he recovers from this half.

I think if you can get Rios to not suck next year, we should go after a REAL CENTER FIELDER. Rios can take Dye's spot in RF.

PLEASE KENNY, GET US A CENTER FIELDER.

Maybe I haven't been watching carefully enough (I have been numb pretty much all of Sept), but has Rios not been getting it done defensively? I know offensively, he's been a zombie, but I thought he has helped shore up center defensively?

Lip Man 1
09-23-2009, 11:50 PM
Considering he's in his mid 30's, it's certainly possible.

It doesn't happen often but sometimes it happens and a guy simply loses it. Steve Sax, Chuck Knoblach, Steve Blass all woke up one day and discovered they could no longer throw a baseball accurately for whatever reason.

It does happen. Who knows this may be it for him.

Lip

BleacherBandit
09-23-2009, 11:52 PM
Maybe I haven't been watching carefully enough (I have been numb pretty much all of Sept), but has Rios not been getting it done defensively? I know offensively, he's been a zombie, but I thought he has helped shore up center defensively?

Yeah, Rios is MUCH BETTER than any option we have for CF right now. But there's no way he's a prototypical center fielder. Let's just say he's middle of the road defensively. Kinda reminds me of them trotting out Swisher to CF last year, only Swisher was worse.

soxinem1
09-23-2009, 11:52 PM
I don't see how it can even be argued that Dye is NOT the weak link.

What about the injury-plaguued LF who is barely at .230?

What about the Opening Day starter who has won just a single game the last two months?

What about the arsonists who occupied the set up and closing roles relief roles the past 40 games?

What about the Opening Day 3B who was demoted to AAA?

What about COL's current sixth starter who put the team five runs in the hole before they even batted?

What about the dozens of booted or misplayed GIDP opportunities?

What about the SS who hasn't produced offensively or defensively?

What about the total **** effort this team gave, minus Konerko, on defense?

What about the DH who was under .250 and killed many rallies because he kept hitting into that stupid shift?

The 2009 White Sox failed as a team.

BadBobbyJenks
09-23-2009, 11:53 PM
What about the injury-plaguued LF who is barely at .230?

What about the Opening Day starter who has won just a single game the last two months?

What about the arsonists who occupied the set up and closing roles relief roles the past 40 games?

What about the Opening Day 3B who was demoted to AAA?

What about COL's current sixth starter who put the team five runs in the hole before they even batted?

What about the dozens of booted or misplayed GIDP opportunities?

What about the SS who hasn't produced offensively or defensively?

What about the total **** effort this team gave, minus Konerko, on defense?

What about the DH who was under .250 and killed many rallies because he kept hitting into that stupid shift?

The 2009 White Sox failed as a team.

So you are saying this team needs some work?

BleacherBandit
09-23-2009, 11:55 PM
So you are saying this team needs some work?

No. They just need to try harder. And that's a tangible metric for improvement.

Danielgosox38
09-23-2009, 11:56 PM
So you are saying this team needs some work?


Lol.

Brian26
09-23-2009, 11:56 PM
B) Did Dye's career all of a sudden end in the 2nd half of this season?

Sluggers lose it "overnight" all the time.

Variable2
09-24-2009, 12:00 AM
No. They just need to try harder. And that's a tangible metric for improvement.

There really isn't a "try harder" in baseball. Becaues that just leads to pressing and further problems. There's reaction and the ability to change and adjust to changes being made in the way you're pitched to or in the way the opposing team plays you. And there's players playing out of position. Dye isn't an outfielder anymore. Ramierez isn't a short stop. Beckham's early struggles were predictable. Rios' is basically a wash for the year. And you have Quentin who's been injured.

Gavin Floyd is a good example of reacting to the changes of batters that face him after last year. He's a different pitcher. Beckham is another one. He struggled to adjust once he first came up, he adjusted and then the pitchers' started to change to that reaction. And so the process goes, on and on. Same thing that happened with Ramirez. Some players are better able to react and adjust quicker than others. "Trying harder" doesn't really figure in.

doublem23
09-24-2009, 12:01 AM
So you are saying this team needs some work?

No, it's all Jermaine's fault. Get rid of him, hello World Series.

BleacherBandit
09-24-2009, 12:02 AM
There really isn't a "try harder" in baseball. Becaues that just leads to pressing and further problems. There's reaction and the ability to change and adjust to changes being made in the way you're pitched to or in the way the opposing team plays you. And there's players playing out of position. Dye isn't an outfielder anymore. Ramierez isn't a short stop. Beckham's early struggles were predictable. Rios' is basically a wash for the year. And you have Quentin who's been injured.

I should have put my post in teal.

soxinem1
09-24-2009, 12:05 AM
Sluggers lose it "overnight" all the time.

That is true. I remember Jack Clark, George Bell, and Greg Luzinski just outright losing it.

I don't think Dye is in their category, though. I do agree his days as a regular OF are done, but I don't think he is done.

At the same time, however, I would not be suprised if he is gone.

BadBobbyJenks
09-24-2009, 12:05 AM
I should have put my post in teal.

I laughed

Ward Hershberger
09-24-2009, 12:08 AM
No, it's all Jermaine's fault. Get rid of him, hello World Series.

Certainly can't put all the blame on one guy, but JD's inability to produce anything in that 2 week stretch from Aug 21 - Sept 1, when Sox fell from 2.5 to 7 games back, in my mind, made him the "poster child" for the failed season

Variable2
09-24-2009, 12:08 AM
I should have put my post in teal.

Whether you were joking or not, there are a lot of people that actually believe that kind of logic of just "trying harder".

BleacherBandit
09-24-2009, 12:09 AM
Whether you were joking or not, there are a lot of people that actually believe that kind of logic of just "trying harder".

Oh yeah, that's true. That's why I made my original post.

Milton Bradley doesn't try, though. Dye is just at the end of the line.

palehozenychicty
09-24-2009, 12:13 AM
I had loved every minute that Dye has been on this team, but it's time to move on. He will not be the difference in our season next year.

Mohoney
09-24-2009, 12:19 AM
But why should JD be dumped on when there is plenty of blame to go around to almost the entire roster?

It's not like Dye is the weak link. There were plenty of broken chains to blame.

I agree with your point, but the thing is that, out of all the broken chains, JD is one of the only ones without a guaranteed contract for 2010. If KW doesn't think a bounce-back year is in the cards for Dye, he can sever ties for $1 million and try to get somebody younger in RF (or CF and move Rios to RF).

Honestly, if KW were to do that, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Frankfan4life
09-24-2009, 12:20 AM
On a night when JD went 3 for 4 and batted in 4 runs, it's really hard to believe why this thread has become a dump JD free-for-all. I guess it's also his fault our pitchers gave up 23 runs in three games. I hate to see how bad he'll be bashed if he goes 4 for 4 with 6 RBI's while our pitchers give up 8 or more runs.

samurai_sox
09-24-2009, 12:26 AM
Maybe Jared Mitchell can cruise through the minors 'ala Beckham and get called up to be next year's "savior"??

TheBigHurtST
09-24-2009, 12:28 AM
He's certainly one of them. The bullpen has been bad. Dye and Rios have been brutal. It's a bad team, but I think they can be a lot better with a few smart moves.

Firing Walker would probably be #1.

Honestly, I don't want to put the blame on the man, but no matter who's on this team the last few years, they can't hit with RISP to save their lives and they can't string hits together much either. I wish I be be unrealistic enough to think the offensive problem with this team was as simple as "a few smart moves."

Just my opinion.

TheBigHurtST
09-24-2009, 12:30 AM
On a night when JD went 3 for 4 and batted in 4 runs, it's really hard to believe why this thread has become a dump JD free-for-all. I guess it's also his fault our pitchers gave up 23 runs in three games. I hate to see how bad he'll be bashed if he goes 4 for 4 with 6 RBI's while our pitchers give up 8 or more runs.

Using 1 game as an example rather than most of the rest of the season is beyond silly; probably biased.

Frankfan4life
09-24-2009, 12:33 AM
Using 1 game as an example rather than most of the rest of the season is beyond silly; probably biased.Not as silly as the phrase "most of the rest of the season." :scratch:

Danielgosox38
09-24-2009, 12:36 AM
On a night when JD went 3 for 4 and batted in 4 runs, it's really hard to believe why this thread has become a dump JD free-for-all. I guess it's also his fault our pitchers gave up 23 runs in three games. I hate to see how bad he'll be bashed if he goes 4 for 4 with 6 RBI's while our pitchers give up 8 or more runs.


It's about the lack of production as a whole in the second half.

GoGoCrede
09-24-2009, 12:43 AM
Another gem of a game to be at. My Twins fan friend who was there felt the need to gloat.

Oh, well. JD's two homers were awesome to see. That was my last night game of the season. :whiner:

Frankfan4life
09-24-2009, 12:51 AM
It's about the lack of production as a whole in the second half.No, it's not. This is a post-game thread and JD is being bashed after having a monster game. Let's critique Buehrle for his poor performance today and in the second half. I don't consider JD to be the "Lone Ranger" in that regard. He put up some good numbers in the first half and that should also be considered.

chisoxfanatic
09-24-2009, 12:55 AM
These last two games were at least more enjoyable to be at than Monday's from a baseball standpoint.

hawkjt
09-24-2009, 12:56 AM
I like JD as much as anyone,but his total collapse the second half contributed greatly to the collapse of the team. Among our run producers, Thome was not good, PK was ok,Carlos was not good, Rios was bad, JD was bad. Thome is gone, PK has one more year, Carlos is in his second year, Rios is signed long term and JD is not signed...so logically, JD is the one who if the first to go.
Run producers that actually produce thru the whole season are needed...our greatest need. The starting rotation was the one unit good enough to win. We will not screw around with five year plans with Peavy and this rotation next year...we need run producers..Abreu is one guy they should look at.

Domeshot17
09-24-2009, 12:58 AM
This team is sure making their fans "proud" with the way they are finishing up the year aren't they?

Lip

The good news is right now we would pick 12/13. If we keep losing, we could sneak into the top 10! People here say the only reason the farm is weak is lack of top 10 draft picks, so seriously, **** it, lets lose out, and get us another Beckham :redneck

SoxFan1979
09-24-2009, 01:22 AM
We are still in it Sox fans!

TheBigHurtST
09-24-2009, 01:23 AM
Not as silly as the phrase "most of the rest of the season." :scratch:

True = silly?

To think JD should stay here because he got a couple hits in a game goes BEYOND any insult I could possibly call you and get banned right now. I guess no player should ever leave based on that illogical rationale.

Danielgosox38
09-24-2009, 01:23 AM
The good news is right now we would pick 12/13. If we keep losing, we could sneak into the top 10! People here say the only reason the farm is weak is lack of top 10 draft picks, so seriously, **** it, lets lose out, and get us another Beckham :redneck


I'm with ya!

LITTLE NELL
09-24-2009, 07:10 AM
Everybody is on Dye's case as it should be, he stunk up the place in the 2nd half. How about Burls, he won 1 lousy game since his perfect game.
Lots of blame for this lousy season from the GM to the Manager and his coaches to the overpaid under-performing players.
We should be solid with our starting 4 next year and Beckham looks good at 3B and I'm giving TCQ a pass due to his injuries, also Paulie is good for another year, I'm not ready to give up on Rios yet. AJ has also played well, beyond that this team is very shaky and KW has a lot of work to do to contend for the division in 2010.
He will have to address the following:
Is TCM the answer at SS
Is Getz a MLB second baseman
Who will DH
Who will play RF
Who will be our closer
The rest of the bullpen except for Thornton needs help
Is Garcia the answer as our 5th starter (need a back up plan)
Kotsay is a solid 4th outfielder but what should we do with Pods?

Good luck Kenny.

Pear-Zin-Ski
09-24-2009, 08:26 AM
Back to back quality starts from two big guns on the lights out 2010 rotation. Call it overreacting, but I'd like to have SOMETHING to believe in for 2010!

Hitmen77
09-24-2009, 09:27 AM
I agree and I don't see any way the Sox pick up the option, but if KW views it as just a prolonged slump and not a sign of impending break down and/or thinks JD can be productive if he plays less in the OF, then he might sign him to a 2 year extension for 10-12M total and let him split time at RF and DH.

To be honest, I think even that's way too much (unless it's incentive-based).

Commit $6 million/year for the next 2 years for a 36 year old who had a stunning offensive collapse in the 2nd half? Isn't it bad enough that we have to pay Linebrink $5 million/yr for the next 2 years?

Hitmen77
09-24-2009, 09:40 AM
This team is sure making their fans "proud" with the way they are finishing up the year aren't they?

Lip

Right now the Sox have 73 wins - which is only one more than our awful 2007 team managed.:o: We have 9 games to go, so we're probably going to finish only a few games ahead of the 2007's results.

Folks, that's bad!:mad: At least the 2007 team had serious holes in it with the likes of Andy Gonzalez and Alex Cintron starting for us and Ryan Bukvich coming out of the pen.

Does anyone know if there is any team in MLB that has had worse record than the Sox since we were tied for 1st after July 23?

FielderJones
09-24-2009, 10:48 AM
Back to back quality starts from two big guns on the lights out 2010 rotation. Call it overreacting, but I'd like to have SOMETHING to believe in for 2010!

You're overreacting.

salty99
09-24-2009, 11:21 AM
Don't tell me what you hit, tell me when you hit them, and JD and alot of others guys haven't been doing either.
Who cares about a 3-4 night in a meaningless game at the end of the season? Where were you in the dog days of summer when the ball flies out of the Cell? Yes, I would take JD back at a reduced rate though because over time he has shown himself to be a really good player. Look at Paulie and his AWFUL slumps he gets into in past years.

And yes, Rios got booed by the whole outfield for not catching that ball that dropped in right in front of him.

soxinem1
09-24-2009, 01:54 PM
Don't tell me what you hit, tell me when you hit them, and JD and alot of others guys haven't been doing either.
Who cares about a 3-4 night in a meaningless game at the end of the season? Where were you in the dog days of summer when the ball flies out of the Cell? Yes, I would take JD back at a reduced rate though because over time he has shown himself to be a really good player. Look at Paulie and his AWFUL slumps he gets into in past years.

And yes, Rios got booed by the whole outfield for not catching that ball that dropped in right in front of him.

He should be on KW's 'Quitters' list.

Though many say he was a dog-ass in TOR too.

Tragg
09-24-2009, 02:51 PM
Is Getz a MLB second baseman


It would be nice to play him and find out instead of platooning him, ozzie-style. Good lord, can't have him bat against lefties.....

kittle42
09-24-2009, 03:52 PM
It would be nice to play him and find out instead of platooning him, ozzie-style. Good lord, can't have him bat against lefties.....

No kidding. There's a similarity between Ozzie and Jerry Manuel - it's like little league - everybody plays!

BadBobbyJenks
09-24-2009, 04:14 PM
Back to back quality starts from two big guns on the lights out 2010 rotation. Call it overreacting, but I'd like to have SOMETHING to believe in for 2010!

9th in the majors in team ERA and 2nd in the American League. Of all the things to bitch about, I think you picked the best one. Nice work.

chisox12
09-24-2009, 04:36 PM
Talk about a team mailing it in for the last month. This has been a complete ****ing embarrassment. It's hard to watch this **** anymore when it's obvious the effort isn't there from everybody.

DumpJerry
09-24-2009, 05:11 PM
Great point - I don't think Rios is the answer - a Good CF woul dhave caught Punto's 2-run single in the 7th, not backed off and let it fall in - easpecially in that situation
I was at the game and from where I sit, I had a good view of the hit. Willie Mays would not have gotten that hit. It was a fast-sinking low line drive that dropped several feet in front of Rios. There was no way he or anyone else, even Aaron Rowand, would have gotten it based on where Rios was standing. Rios might have backed up a step or two so that he could field the hop (if he moved up, the hop was too low for an effective fielding with throw).

1989
09-24-2009, 05:59 PM
It would be nice to play him and find out instead of platooning him, ozzie-style. Good lord, can't have him bat against lefties.....

I'm fine with the 2B platoon. Nix has good numbers vs LHP.

Johnny Mostil
09-24-2009, 06:30 PM
Does anyone know if there is any team in MLB that has had worse record than the Sox since we were tied for 1st after July 23?

Five (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2009-07-23), apparently.

Ranger
09-24-2009, 07:23 PM
I honestly hope you are kidding...I can't wait to get jordan danks or mark kotsay out there next year...cannot go through another year of him clogging the bases, taking horrible routs to fly balls, and basically taking off 3 months of the season and concentrating on how much food he can eat

His routes to flyballs have never been an issue. It's his speed that has been.


If Kotsay is starting more than twice a week in 2010 for anyone that team is doomed.

And as far as Jordan Danks being a viable run-producing option as a rookie....... No way.

As a DH JD will be fine. It's not like anyone else besides Konerko produced any runs all year. JD should not be the fall guy.

Jordan Danks is not going to be a run producer anyway. He'll probably be a leadoff type...or at least, that's what he's projected to do.

And this is based on what? Do you have any sort of information about this, or is this just your personal feelings? Plenty of us think Walker should have been fired months, if not over a year ago, but he's likely coming back for 2010... Dye might be gone, Dye might not come back... I haven't seen anything from the Sox that commits one way or the other.

The difference between the two is that Dye has/had a greater impact on the lineup than any hitting coach would ever have. The opposite is also true in that you saw the effect his "absence" had the last two months of this season.

soxinem1
09-25-2009, 12:15 AM
Back in 2006 the White Sox had one of the best records in the league at the break. Among their many All-Stars was Mark Buehrle, who was rocked in his last couple outings before the ASB.

In the second half he couldn't get anyone out. His fastball was gone, his curve hung, and his change had no bite. His ERA was over 6.00 with those last pre-ASB starts and the entire second half, and soared to almost five for the year. Only Ozzie pulling him from the rotation stopped it from going over 5.00.

His stuff was gone his last 17 starts of the season in 2006. But was he the one to have the blame placed on his shoulders, even though he was a guaranteed loss for nearly three months? NO, and rightfully not. Sure, he was one of the reasons, as he is this year as well.

It was a team 'effort' then, as it is in 2009.

Face the facts folks, this team never gelled or played well together from the get-go. No decent winning streak, no long offensive surge, no extended stretch of even decent defense. Nothing.

And don't get me wrong, JD played into this too. But look at this lineup. There was no offensive force in it all season long. Dye had a nice first half, Pods was a Godsend, and PK did okay, but not for the $15 million he was paid. No one stepped up and produced among the big guys all year.

If it wasn't for the starters doing a mostly good job all year, this team would have at least 90 losses right now.