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View Full Version : This one was NOT Manuel's fault!


Jjav829
06-08-2002, 10:14 PM
This loss was NOT Jerry Manuel's fault. He made the right call. There was no reason not to bring Foulke in there. I keep seeing "he hadn't pitched in 5 days". Well guess what. The only way you break that streak is to pitch. If he doesn't pitch today then it would be 6 days, and so on and so on. I want Manuel gone too, but some of these arguments are just plain thoughtless. So your not going to bring Foulke in when the game is on the line because he hasn't pitched in 5 days? Well what happens if tommorrow the score is 2-1 Sox in the top of the 9th. Then your not going to bring him in because the game is on the line and he hasn't pitched in 6 days? Manuel works with what he has. He isn't out there pitching. He brings in the guy who best fits the situation. It's Foulke's job there to get Vladdy out. Foulke was the one who gave Vladdy a pitch to hit on the count that Vladdy loves to go deep on...0-0. You wanna make a case that Vladdy should have been intentionally walked...fine, you can make that case. But there is absolutely no reason for Foulke not to be in in that situation. Would you rather see Howry out there, Osuna? At home, once you lose the chance for a save situation, which was lost here, you might as well use your closer. It's Foulke's job, not Manuel's to get out of that inning unscathed. Stop blaming Manuel for **** that isn't his fault. I don't like Manuel either but this was NOT his fault.

Viva Magglio
06-08-2002, 10:16 PM
Foulke is almost always terrible in tie game situations. That is why Maneul erred in bringing him in. But the real reason we lost is because of the piss poor hitting. Why are we not hitting? Among other things, could it be Manuel's poor motivational skills leading to batters going through the motions?

neal
06-08-2002, 10:17 PM
I'm behind you 100%. Lay off the guy, he's got a tough job with a team that has been playing like **** lately.

doublem23
06-08-2002, 10:17 PM
I have to disagree. Foulke has clearly shown an inability to pitch in tie games, so why bring him in?

Secondly... IF Foulke doesn't let up a run, would he go out there for the 10th? He's clearly shown an inability to pitch more than 1 inning.

True, we can't blame Manuel for that 420-foot bomb, but a good manager needs to know his player's weaknesses and strengths, and Jerry is starting show that he has no idea how his players actually play, but rather, how they SHOULD play based on some numbers. You think Joe Torre would have marched Foulke out there?

doublem23
06-08-2002, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by neal
I'm behind you 100%. Lay off the guy, he's got a tough job with a team that has been playing like **** lately.

Oh, I agree we can't blame Jerry for the loss itself. When your team only gets 4 hits off the ****ing Expos, a manager's hands are tied, but you compound problems by being stupid.

Jjav829
06-08-2002, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Foulke is almost always terrible in tie game situations. That is why Maneul erred in bringing him in. But the real reason we lost is because of the piss poor hitting. Why are we not hitting? Among other things, could it be Manuel's poor motivational skills leading to batters going through the motions?

O give me a break. Your going to try to find every little thing to blame Manuel for aren't you. There are fuking paid professional athletes. If they can't get motivated themselves, then they don't belong here. BTW...how is the intense motivational Larry Bowa doing? Yeah, hes really got them playing terrific baseball

Jerry_Manuel
06-08-2002, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
O give me a break. Your going to try to find every little thing to blame Manuel for aren't you. There are fuking paid professional athletes. If they can't get motivated themselves, then they don't belong here. BTW...how is the intense motivational Larry Bowa doing? Yeah, hes really got them playing terrific baseball

We need my guy Phil Garner to come in here and start kicking ass.


:garner
**** you Frank, you better start hitting, you piece of ****!

Jjav829
06-08-2002, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I have to disagree. Foulke has clearly shown an inability to pitch in tie games, so why bring him in?

Secondly... IF Foulke doesn't let up a run, would he go out there for the 10th? He's clearly shown an inability to pitch more than 1 inning.

True, we can't blame Manuel for that 420-foot bomb, but a good manager needs to know his player's weaknesses and strengths, and Jerry is starting show that he has no idea how his players actually play, but rather, how they SHOULD play based on some numbers. You think Joe Torre would have marched Foulke out there?

It's situational managing. Im not going to blame Manuel because his pitchers can't get the job done. If Foulke is ever going to be an elite closer for this team, he needs to be able to pitch in these situations. You don't learn how to pitch in a situation, without experience. And yes, I do believe Torre would have brought Foulke in.

neal
06-08-2002, 10:23 PM
I see your point but, Foulke is supposed to be leading this bullpen. Like Jjav said, would you rather see Osuna, Ginter, Howry or someone else out there? I sure as hell wouldn't. As for the inability to go more than 1 inning, Foulke said he wanted to get back to starting. Let him prove it. And Joe Torre has a little bit better of a bulpen to work with than Manuel does.

RKMeibalane
06-08-2002, 10:27 PM
As I said in another post, I don't think Manuel made a smart move by brining Foulke in, but he wasn't the one who gave up that homerun. Foulke is to blame for what happened because he arrogantly challenged Guerrero with his fastball, and he lost that battle. Maybe Manuel should have known better, but Foulke was the one stupid enough to throw that pitch. "Hawk" talked all game long about Guerrero hitting first-pitch homeruns. I'm sure if he knows that, Foulke should know, too. Obviously, someone didn't read the scouting report.

neal
06-08-2002, 10:28 PM
:tradefoulke (do we have one of these yet?)

MattSharp
06-08-2002, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
As I said in another post, I don't think Manuel made a smart move by brining Foulke in, but he wasn't the one who gave up that homerun. Foulke is to blame for what happened because he arrogantly challenged Guerrero with his fastball, and he lost that battle. Maybe Manuel should have known better, but Foulke was the one stupid enough to throw that pitch. "Hawk" talked all game long about Guerrero hitting first-pitch homeruns. I'm sure if he knows that, Foulke should know, too. Obviously, someone didn't read the scouting report.

I said this EXACT thing in another post. Manuel should know his opponents better.....