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View Full Version : Dayan Viciedo a 10 Million Dollar Conversation


Waysouthsider
09-21-2009, 12:20 PM
So, is it time to talk about Viciedo? Anyone actually seen him playing for the Barons? I know I was pretty excited but apprehensive when we seemed to have scooped him up despite the concerns other clubs had about him.

Here are his AA numbers: OPS .217/SLG .391 (ouch!)/.280 AVG/OPS .708...

Does he actually have 30 errors?

Hope he's not our future....:whiner:

voodoochile
09-21-2009, 12:26 PM
Just curious if you ever have seen him actually play?

Also, he's 19 years old playing in AA and still learning the language and the lay of the land in America.

I think it's WAY too premature to be writing him off as a bust.

Edit: Also post AA All-Star game he seemed to find more of a comfort zone and posted an .814 OPS including a .464 slg%.

Redus Redux
09-21-2009, 12:41 PM
Everyone expected him to be like Alexei, but he's 7 years younger.

He's a raw talent investment. Youve gotta make those every now and then...even something like Joe Borchard was a bust that still had value several years into it.

Because he's so young, we can take a chance for a few years and then see if he still has intrigue for trading teams at that point. From what I read, his approach at the plate with two strikes is what he should be doing throughout the at-bats.

soltrain21
09-21-2009, 12:49 PM
Just curious if you ever have seen him actually play?

Also, he's 19 years old playing in AA and still learning the language and the lay of the land in America.

I think it's WAY too premature to be writing him off as a bust.

Edit: Also post AA All-Star game he seemed to find more of a comfort zone and posted an .814 OPS including a .464 slg%.

My friend is the play by play guy for the Mobile Bay Bears (who play the Barons a lot), and he said it's amazing how childish he acts. Throws his bat all around, throws his helmet. Glares at umps almost every chance he gets.

DirtySox
09-21-2009, 12:53 PM
2009 Prospect Duds: Dayan Viciedo (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2009-prospect-duds-dayan-viciedo)

oeo
09-21-2009, 02:36 PM
He's 20 years old and played his first professional year in AA. Give him more of an opportunity than just one year.

My friend is the play by play guy for the Mobile Bay Bears (who play the Barons a lot), and he said it's amazing how childish he acts. Throws his bat all around, throws his helmet. Glares at umps almost every chance he gets.

That sounds like your average big league player to me. :shrug:

sox1970
09-21-2009, 02:38 PM
Just curious if you ever have seen him actually play?

Also, he's 19 years old playing in AA and still learning the language and the lay of the land in America.

I think it's WAY too premature to be writing him off as a bust.

Edit: Also post AA All-Star game he seemed to find more of a comfort zone and posted an .814 OPS including a .464 slg%.

Viciedo is 20. Has been since March.

He'll get moved to the outfield eventually. He can hit.

beasly213
09-21-2009, 02:48 PM
Paying him the 10 mil is no different than drafting a highly touted player and giving him a signing bonus.
I'll hold of judgment on him until he has some more playing time under his belt.

Waysouthsider
09-21-2009, 03:33 PM
Thanks for the info Voodoochile.....that makes me feel a little better....I haven't seen him play, I was wondering if anyone on the board might have had a look at him....

I hope he turns out well....

soxfanreggie
09-21-2009, 07:44 PM
I was having this same discussion with someone else. What I believe is that sometimes you have to take risks like these, pay $10 million now in order to get someone who has the chance to be a stud at the Major League level. Dayan has a lot of talent, and I'm willing to give him more than one year to harness it. We gave Borchard, Fields, Anderson, etc. more than a year. Sure, we didn't spend that much on them, but we gave them all ample chances.

If in a season or two we don't see any growth, then start raising the questions of him being a bust. From what Voodoo pointed to, he has shown improvement already.

Hitmen77
09-22-2009, 11:06 AM
Paying him the 10 mil is no different than drafting a highly touted player and giving him a signing bonus.
I'll hold of judgment on him until he has some more playing time under his belt.

I agree with you for the most part, but there is one big difference between him and a regular draftee (if I'm understanding his contract correctly). I believe he can become a free agent after 2012. So, even if he eventually succeeds, we might have him for only 1 or 2 seasons before he departs or gets a significant raise.

The Immigrant
09-22-2009, 11:16 AM
I agree with you for the most part, but there is one big difference between him and a regular draftee (if I'm understanding his contract correctly). I believe he can become a free agent after 2012. So, even if he eventually succeeds, we might have him for only 1 or 2 seasons before he departs or gets a significant raise.

Nope, neither Vidiedo nor Ramirez can become free agents when their current deals expire. They are under team control for 6 years each. Rick Hahn has confirmed this.

guillen4life13
09-22-2009, 11:24 AM
Nope, neither Vidiedo nor Ramirez can become free agents when their current deals expire. They are under team control for 6 years each. Rick Hahn has confirmed this.

Then they'll be arbitration eligible, I take it?

That might work out.

Hitmen77
09-22-2009, 12:47 PM
Nope, neither Vidiedo nor Ramirez can become free agents when their current deals expire. They are under team control for 6 years each. Rick Hahn has confirmed this.

Thanks for clarifying.

SI1020
09-23-2009, 04:04 PM
My friend is the play by play guy for the Mobile Bay Bears (who play the Barons a lot), and he said it's amazing how childish he acts. Throws his bat all around, throws his helmet. Glares at umps almost every chance he gets. He's also quite the drama queen. Fouled a pitch off his lower leg and took about 15 minutes to get up. I thought he had broke something. He took his position the next inning and if you hadn't seen his previous AB you'd never guess what had happened. That being said I am in no way writing him off. He showed me some plate discipline and some good instincts in the field despite the errors. I'd call him a diamond in the rough project that needs lots of work and more than a little maturing. At this point I would not call him a bust.

Craig Grebeck
09-24-2009, 12:28 PM
He's also quite the drama queen.
Wow. He took a while to get up after fouling a ball off his leg. How can anyone argue against this much logic?

At this point I would not call him a bust.
Anyone that does should just stop watching baseball.

SI1020
09-24-2009, 12:43 PM
Wow. He took a while to get up after fouling a ball off his leg. How can anyone argue against this much logic?


Anyone that does should just stop watching baseball. I'm assuming you weren't at the game in question. I have never seen anyone ham it up like Viciedo did. I'm sure it hurt and it stung. Baseballs do that when coming in contact with flesh and muscle. Viciedo is given to histronics of various types from time to time. All I was trying to say. That and I think he's not a sure bet but does have potential. I don't see why there should be a major problem.

Craig Grebeck
09-24-2009, 12:46 PM
Viciedo is given to histronics of various types from time to time. All I was trying to say.
You called the guy a drama queen. Don't act like that is somehow equitable with "given to histronics (sic) of various types from time to time."

SI1020
09-24-2009, 01:12 PM
You called the guy a drama queen. Don't act like that is somehow equitable with "given to histronics (sic) of various types from time to time." Apparently you're a big fan and take offense to any criticism of this young player. That's fine. Drama queen and given to histronics are not contradictory in my view. Anyway I'm done. Stay mad if you like. I hope Viciedo pans out and will try to see him play again next year.

PalehosePlanet
09-26-2009, 11:19 AM
Viciedo's numbers improved as the year wore on; this will be a great learning experience for him. As Voodoo mentioned there were a lot of other factors to consider as well (cultural changes, etc...)

Keep in mind folks that he was one of the youngest, if not thee youngest, players in AA. I think another year in AA should serve him well.

soxfanreggie
09-28-2009, 10:38 PM
Interesting fact, Viciedo will be playing in the Arizona Fall League under...

:fireward

Beautox
10-01-2009, 04:01 AM
I actually had the oppertunity to see Dayan play against west tenn and took some hd video. I came away impressed, hes got tons of raw power and his post ASB numbers for a 20 year old in AA are actually decent, now it was only a 166AB but still not a bad line.

.313/.350/.464 good for a .814 ops.

all through out the season i listened to the barons webcasts, and he punishes the ball to all fields. Next year, now that hes had sometime to adjust to the states I think he breaks out in a big way; if getz and nix can't perform at a competent level and management thinks Gordon is destined for the MI i think he could easily see a call up midway through the season. Just give him some time hes still raw but he shows a ton of promise, and Hahn has already stated that both he and alexei are under team control for six years; no need to rush him.

Lastly for a little comparisons sake; Carlos Lee at age 22 in Birmingham

.302/.350/.485 .834OPS

I think Dayan will be fine and playing for the sox for a long time to come.

Lip Man 1
10-01-2009, 03:41 PM
I just talked to a source today for an hour and a half and among the things they told me was that they felt Dayan will be with the Sox at some point in the 2010 season perhaps as soon as making the opening day roster, just FYI.

Lip

Hitmen77
10-01-2009, 04:43 PM
I just talked to a source today for an hour and a half and among the things they told me was that they fell Dayan will be with the Sox at some point in the 2010 season perhaps as soon as making the opening day roster, just FYI.

Lip

Has he played any OF in the minors? I doubt they'll bring him up to play 3B.

DirtySox
10-01-2009, 05:02 PM
I just talked to a source today for an hour and a half and among the things they told me was that they fell Dayan will be with the Sox at some point in the 2010 season perhaps as soon as making the opening day roster, just FYI.

Lip

Sounds like a terrible idea. By all accounts, Dayan is not close to MLB ready.

Konerko05
10-01-2009, 05:15 PM
Sounds like a terrible idea. By all accounts, Dayan is not close to MLB ready.

Agreed. I doubt he will even be promoted to AAA to start the season.

A repeat of AA is likely. If he builds on his second half of last season, I'm sure they will give him some time at AAA before he is called up to the White Sox.

I don't have any hopes for him playing 3B at the major league level either.

hi im skot
10-01-2009, 05:39 PM
Sounds like a terrible idea. By all accounts, Dayan is not close to MLB ready.

Don't question Lip's "sources".

Noneck
10-01-2009, 06:11 PM
I just talked to a source today for an hour and a half and among the things they told me was that they fell Dayan will be with the Sox at some point in the 2010 season perhaps as soon as making the opening day roster, just FYI.

Lip

I always thought they would also. No way the Sox are going to pay that kind of money for someone to play in the minors. They already paid him a year of nice money for that, it will be MLB next year.

Lip Man 1
10-01-2009, 06:20 PM
Skot:

Sources can be wrong, it's happened before, it'll happen again but these people who make their living in or around the game generally have a better understanding, a better feel, about what is taking place with the Sox organization than the average fan.

I simply pass along the things they tell me. Overall they have provided me with significant and accurate information over a long period of time.

I trust them.

Lip

DirtySox
10-01-2009, 06:36 PM
I always thought they would also. No way the Sox are going to pay that kind of money for someone to play in the minors. They already paid him a year of nice money for that, it will be MLB next year.

Yes. Since he was paid alot he needs to play in the Bigs. Forget the fact that he doesn't have a position, has bad plate discipline, struggles mightily with pitch recognition, and is reportedly still out of shape.

Unless everything all of a sudden comes together for him in the AFL or the first half of next season, he will not be in Chicago.

The kid still has tons of potential, but to have him playing in the Pros after a rather underwhelming year with plenty of things to work on would be moronic.

oeo
10-01-2009, 07:01 PM
I always thought they would also. No way the Sox are going to pay that kind of money for someone to play in the minors. They already paid him a year of nice money for that, it will be MLB next year.

They paid exactly half his contract this year without a sniff of the major leagues. If your theory is true, why wouldn't they have brought him up as a September call up? He's already on the 40-man roster, and they would lose nothing.

Lip's source is interesting, but I just can't see it. They're going to make a spot on the team for him? Doubtful as he hasn't shown any consistency and still doesn't have a position. Maybe they're anticipating a huge AFL and Spring Training, but even then, I doubt they leave a starting position for him.

BTW, Lip, is your source within the Sox organization or an outsider?

Noneck
10-01-2009, 07:29 PM
They paid exactly half his contract this year without a sniff of the major leagues. If your theory is true, why wouldn't they have brought him up as a September call up? He's already on the 40-man roster, and they would lose nothing.



That's my point, investing over 5m and not getting a sniff this year. So, Next year they will have to get the return on that investment.

Lip Man 1
10-01-2009, 07:41 PM
OEO:

The source in this case does not work for the Sox directly but sees them on a very regular basis and is involved with major league baseball for their lively hood.

Lip

soxfanreggie
10-01-2009, 09:14 PM
The source in this case does not work for the Sox directly but sees them on a very regular basis and is involved with major league baseball for their lively hood.

A beer vendor doesn't count. Although you said "they" which means your "source" is more than one person?

Britt Burns
10-01-2009, 11:35 PM
Has he played any OF in the minors? I doubt they'll bring him up to play 3B.

He played a couple of games, IIRC. I think he may be on the Carlos Lee plan, in that he is stuck in left in the majors after spending most of his time in the minors at third. In fact, from what we've seen of Viciedo I think the Lee comparison holds true for his bat as well.

DirtySox
10-02-2009, 10:34 AM
He played a couple of games, IIRC. I think he may be on the Carlos Lee plan, in that he is stuck in left in the majors after spending most of his time in the minors at third. In fact, from what we've seen of Viciedo I think the Lee comparison holds true for his bat as well.

I'm 99% positive that Dayan played only 3rd and 1st this year.

NLaloosh
10-02-2009, 12:30 PM
I really don't know anything but it does seem to me that his young age makes his year at AA fairly impressive.

I do think that he needs more time to mature mentally and improve his work ethic and since he really is unable to play a position adequately at the ML level right now I can't see him being with the team next year.

Lorenzo Barcelo
10-02-2009, 01:26 PM
I could have sworn I read a scouting report somewhere that he has depth perception issues with pop-ups while playing third. This report said he was so bad at judging pop-ups that the SS would go out of his way to call him off on most of them. I'll try to find that article, unless someone else has read this also. That could be an issue if you put him in LF.

DirtySox
10-02-2009, 01:36 PM
I could have sworn I read a scouting report somewhere that he has depth perception issues with pop-ups while playing third. This report said he was so bad at judging pop-ups that the SS would go out of his way to call him off on most of them. I'll try to find that article, unless someone else has read this also. That could be an issue if you put him in LF.

I think that was from FutureSox, and it was merely a blogger making a guess as for why he looks bad at 3rd. I wouldn't put much stock in it.

...
10-02-2009, 05:15 PM
I think that was from FutureSox, and it was merely a blogger making a guess as for why he looks bad at 3rd. I wouldn't put much stock in it.

why he looks so bad catching pop ups at 3rd base. When the ball is on the ground, he's fine.

Ranger
10-10-2009, 06:53 PM
I think there is about a 1% chance he plays 3rd base at this level. It looks like they're giving up on that idea.

DonnieDarko
10-10-2009, 07:16 PM
I think there is about a 1% chance he plays 3rd base at this level. It looks like they're giving up on that idea.

Where they gonna play him, then? DH?

DirtySox
10-10-2009, 07:36 PM
Where they gonna play him, then? DH?

He played 1st the latter half of the season.

DonnieDarko
10-10-2009, 07:40 PM
He played 1st the latter half of the season.

Ah. So he's going to be Konerko's replacement, eh?

DirtySox
10-10-2009, 07:50 PM
Ah. So he's going to be Konerko's replacement, eh?

Maybe.

He has a long way to go.

DonnieDarko
10-10-2009, 08:43 PM
Maybe.

He has a long way to go.

That reminds me. What's the current word on Viciedo? How has he progressed in his development and all?

DirtySox
10-10-2009, 09:06 PM
I think it's discussed in this thread as well as others.

He didn't have a very good first half, but he had a decent second half. Hasn't shown much power at all, is reportedly still out of shape, was a butcher at 3rd, doesn't walk, has bad pitch recognition, and will swing at anything. On the plus side, he still has tremendous power potential and very good bat speed. Overall he had an underwhelming year, but he gets a mulligan for being young for the league and having to acclimate to a whole new place and way of life.

One would hope to see better performance in the upcoming AFL and next season.

oeo
10-16-2009, 09:50 PM
Viciedo is 5-for-13 with a HR, a 2B, 4 RBI's, and 6 R's in his first three games of the AFL. He's played third base in all three games.

Lundind1
10-17-2009, 12:35 PM
My dad was in Jacksonville Fl a few weeks ago and saw the Barrons take on the Suns. He said that he has watched a lot of minor league baseball and thinks that Viciedo has a huge upside. He said that Dayan will be a good ballplayer, not to expect him to zoom to the majors like Beckham did, and he will make an impact at the major league level in one form or another.

voodoochile
10-18-2009, 11:45 AM
He's playing in the Fall League and has posted an OPS of 1.0+ over his first 13 AB with a walk a homer, a double, 5 hits and 6 runs scored to go along with his 4 K's. It's obviously early and so are the offensive numbers are through the roof all across the board - Viciedo's OPS is only 16th in the league so far.

Good that he's playing though. Anything that furthers his development is a good idea.

BleacherBandit
10-18-2009, 12:02 PM
Sorry, I'm late to this discussion. Are they persistant on having him play third base? I thought he was going to be fitted as an outfielder because of our inundated situation in the infield.

Craig Grebeck
10-18-2009, 12:06 PM
Sorry, I'm late to this discussion. Are they persistant on having him play third base? I thought he was going to be fitted as an outfielder because of our inundated situation in the infield.
They would move him because of a lack of mobility. They might as well give him an opportunity to become a good third baseman before moving him off. Also, I'd imagine they want to see some decent offensive production before they move him to first base or left field.

DirtySox
10-18-2009, 12:07 PM
He's playing in the Fall League and has posted an OPS of 1.0+ over his first 13 AB with a walk a homer, a double, 5 hits and 6 runs scored to go along with his 4 K's. It's obviously early and so are the offensive numbers are through the roof all across the board - Viciedo's OPS is only 16th in the league so far.

Good that he's playing though. Anything that furthers his development is a good idea.

Yep. He has had a decent showing so far. But for those who aren't aware, the AFL is a notorious hitter's league.

voodoochile
10-18-2009, 01:54 PM
They would move him because of a lack of mobility. They might as well give him an opportunity to become a good third baseman before moving him off. Also, I'd imagine they want to see some decent offensive production before they move him to first base or left field.

There's an article on the Trib's site that actually comments on some nice plays he made at third the other day.

Frater Perdurabo
10-18-2009, 04:49 PM
Given KW's proclivity for trading prospects, I would not be surprised if the Sox want him to stay at 3B right now. If his bat develops as they expect/hope, he would have more value as a third baseman than as a LF or 1B.

Lip Man 1
10-27-2009, 12:41 PM
Viciedo has been shut down for the rest of the season according to the Tribune today. He's been replaced on the Fall season roster due to inflammation of the elbow.

Lip

Waysouthsider
10-27-2009, 01:17 PM
How serious is this inflammation issue, anyone know?

Waysouthsider
11-02-2009, 08:27 AM
I saw Lip's interview with MG today....I think those guys are right...I'll expect to see Viciedo in the corner of the outfield at some point this year.

I can't imagine keeping the kid in the minors when they need big bats in Chicago AND they are paying the dough for him. I just hope he doesn't implode if they rush him up to the bigs.

cws05champ
11-02-2009, 08:38 AM
I saw Lip's interview with MG today....I think those guys are right...I'll expect to see Viciedo in the corner of the outfield at some point this year.

I can't imagine keeping the kid in the minors when they need big bats in Chicago AND they are paying the dough for him. I just hope he doesn't implode if they rush him up to the bigs.

Just because they are paying him ($1.25M next year) doesn't mean they'll rush him up if he is not ready. That wouldn't help the team or Dayan's confidence. And he really hasn't shown a big bat yet. Great bat speed, but it hasn't translated into a ton of power yet.

Craig Grebeck
11-02-2009, 09:35 AM
I saw Lip's interview with MG today....I think those guys are right...I'll expect to see Viciedo in the corner of the outfield at some point this year.

I can't imagine keeping the kid in the minors when they need big bats in Chicago AND they are paying the dough for him. I just hope he doesn't implode if they rush him up to the bigs.
What the hell does his salary have to do with his arrival in the majors? If anything, the fact that we've put to much money into him is evidence that he won't be here until he's ready.

He's shown flashes but I don't expect to see him until mid-2011, in all honesty. If he makes drastic improvements I'd expect a September call-up this season.

Pablo_Honey
11-02-2009, 05:56 PM
What the hell does his salary have to do with his arrival in the majors? If anything, the fact that we've put to much money into him is evidence that he won't be here until he's ready.

He's shown flashes but I don't expect to see him until mid-2011, in all honesty. If he makes drastic improvements I'd expect a September call-up this season.

I think he is saying that Viciedo is making a lot of money for a minor leaguer (4 yrs/10 mil) Dayan's contract is very misleading because it looks like Sox are paying him 2.5 mil per year, but that may not be the case. According to Cot's Baseball Contract 4 mil of that 10 mil is signing bonus which I am to led to believe has been paid already. Aside from that, he will make at most 2.5 mil but that's in 4th year and he should be up here by then. Anyways, I agree that the earliest Viciedo will be here will be 2011. His defense is atrocious and he hasn't shown enough power to make anyone forget about his poor plate discipline. His batting average is decent, but that's a useless and meaningless statistic anyways.