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SoxSpeed22
09-20-2009, 04:47 PM
Keh. I don't even care anymore. Good job, Freddy.

soxinem1
09-20-2009, 04:47 PM
If there are any good results from this game, at least it is Garcia pitching well against KC for once and maybe putting himself in front to be the #5 guy next year.

doublem23
09-20-2009, 04:48 PM
Did we just lose on a CS... to the ROYALS?

October26
09-20-2009, 04:52 PM
Sad for Freddy. He pitched an awesome game today. Sox offense dead again and Sox lose 2 -1. :(:

soxfan22
09-20-2009, 04:53 PM
It feels worse when I'm in London looking at the MLB scoreboard waiting for updates. :(:

Brian26
09-20-2009, 04:55 PM
Wise is no Pablo Ozuna.

LITTLE NELL
09-20-2009, 04:56 PM
When will I wake up and end this nightmare.

Ward Hershberger
09-20-2009, 04:57 PM
Why does Kotsay not bat in place of Dye with 2 out bases loaded in b8 ?

doublem23
09-20-2009, 04:59 PM
When will I wake up and end this nightmare.

Two weeks.

Dibbs
09-20-2009, 05:00 PM
Can we just fire Greg Walker to see if it makes a difference? I doubt it would hurt. We have big names in this lineup. Everyone except the Mariners and Royals have scored more runs than us this year.

Patrick134
09-20-2009, 05:00 PM
Why does Kotsay not bat in place of Dye with 2 out bases loaded in b8 ?


while I'm not a big fan of second guessing , I thought the same thing before JD made the out.

WhiteSox1989
09-20-2009, 05:01 PM
Yuck.

doublem23
09-20-2009, 05:05 PM
Can we just fire Greg Walker to see if it makes a difference? I doubt it would hurt. We have big names in this lineup. Everyone except the Mariners and Royals have scored more runs than us this year.

I've been wanting Walker's head since early 2008 and this is my basic reasoning... Whatever effect Walker has in reality is minimal to the fact that the Sox have been a below average offensive team really since 2007 and absolutely no one seems to be held accountable. Is it possible that anyone else could do a worse job than him?

Patrick134
09-20-2009, 05:08 PM
Can't complain about losing to KC too much. If it wasn't for KC manhandling the Tigers, the Sox wouldn't have been able to pretend to be in the race for this long.

SI1020
09-20-2009, 05:11 PM
I've been wanting Walker's head since early 2008 and this is my basic reasoning... Whatever effect Walker has in reality is minimal to the fact that the Sox have been a below average offensive team really since 2007 and absolutely no one seems to be held accountable. Is it possible that anyone else could do a worse job than him? I'm with you on this one and wonder why some us get pummeled so badly for suggesting the same. In fact I waited until this year to ask that we replace Walker.

CanBuehrleWait
09-20-2009, 05:14 PM
Yea Walker is in a gots to go situation.... oh well go bears

TDog
09-20-2009, 05:15 PM
Did we just lose on a CS... to the ROYALS?

Dewayne Wise did something today that Babe Ruth did 83 years ago. That's not quite true. Ruth was caught stealing to end the 1926 season, not simply a game. He walked with two outs in the ninth with the Cardinals leading 3-2 in the bottom of the ninth in Game 7 of the World Series. With Bob Meusel, a .315 regular season hitter at the plate, Ruth was thrown out trying to steal second.

Another difference in the ending of today's game was that the Royals expected Wise to try to steal. Really, I don't mind the attempt. If anything, it provides evidence that the Sox weren't simply going through the motions. Pinch-hitting Kotsay for Rios, I thought, was an inspired decision by Guillen (ultimately, there is no control to the experiment to determine if it was the right decision -- i.e. had Rios homered or doubled, the game might still be gong on). Kotsay got on base with two outs, and Podsednik wasn't a power threat against Soria. Had he singled Wise to third, it would have brought up Beckham with two outs, and he hasn't been hitting. I have no problem with the concept of the stolen base attempt. The Sox were already in desperation mode.

Ultimately, the game was lost because the Sox let it get to Soria. The Royals scored their second run on a two-out hit against Garcia. The Sox had their chance to tie it after scoring the first run from third with one out. they also had a chance with two on and one out in the eighth when Soria came on to strike out Konerko, pitch around Ramirez (that really was a situation where I didn't want to see Ramirez take a walk) and retire Dye with the bases loaded. I feel bad for Dye Had Wise or Kotsay started in his place, at least the game wouldn't have ended with Wise being caught stealing.

There is a temptation to say the Sox didn't care because they lost 2-1 to the Royals. People may be posting that as ii type.

captainclutch24
09-20-2009, 05:15 PM
Only 12 more games. Only 12 more games.

1989
09-20-2009, 05:16 PM
Can we just fire Greg Walker to see if it makes a difference? I doubt it would hurt. We have big names in this lineup. Everyone except the Mariners and Royals have scored more runs than us this year.

He has to be canned. He has to be

Lip Man 1
09-20-2009, 05:16 PM
If it's Sunday it must be another White Sox loss.

That makes 14 losses where the Sox held an opponent to three runs or less. 29 games where they scored one run…or less, and 62 games where they scored three runs or less! It's also 26 losses now to the four worst teams in the league.

Inexcusable.

Lip

Patrick134
09-20-2009, 05:19 PM
If it's Sunday it must be another White Sox loss.

That makes 14 losses where the Sox held an opponent to three runs or less. 29 games where they scored one run…or less, and 62 games where they scored three runs or less! It's also 26 losses now to the four worst teams in the league.

Inexcusable.

Lip


I'm not a big KC fan, but if you watched KC play the last 2 weeks, you'd be hard pressed to call them one of the worst teams in the league(currently). I know what their overall record is, but this isn't May.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2009, 05:24 PM
Patrick:

They are a garbage team and a garbage organization... to lose as many games to them is flat out embarrassing.

Lip

Patrick134
09-20-2009, 05:26 PM
Patrick:

They are a garbage team and a garbage organization... to lose as many games to them is flat out embarrassing.

Lip

Bad organization, sure. I meant that at this moment, they're not one of the worst teams in the league by any means.

GoGoCrede
09-20-2009, 05:27 PM
Solution! Ban Sundays! :D:

Oh, well. Looking forward to 3 more games before the offseason is upon us. Beat the Twins!

TheOldRoman
09-20-2009, 05:35 PM
I've been wanting Walker's head since early 2008 and this is my basic reasoning... Whatever effect Walker has in reality is minimal to the fact that the Sox have been a below average offensive team really since 2007 and absolutely no one seems to be held accountable. Is it possible that anyone else could do a worse job than him?But, but, but... how can you expect Waker to do good when he works with nothing but slow power hitters such as Beckham, Getz, Ramirez, Rios and Podsednik?!

BleacherBandit
09-20-2009, 05:35 PM
:(:

This is how the ending of this season makes me feel.

Dick Allen
09-20-2009, 05:42 PM
Hopefully the Bears don't make two teams that play like crap on Sundays.

soxfanreggie
09-20-2009, 05:50 PM
I've been wanting Walker's head since early 2008 and this is my basic reasoning... Whatever effect Walker has in reality is minimal to the fact that the Sox have been a below average offensive team really since 2007 and absolutely no one seems to be held accountable. Is it possible that anyone else could do a worse job than him?

As long as we don't hire these guys, I don't think we can do worse.

http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/team/coach_staff_bio.jsp?c_id=sea&coachorstaffid=112439

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/team/coach_staff_bio.jsp?c_id=kc&coachorstaffid=121983

I guess for the people who don't think Walker has any fault must be putting the blame on KW and Ozzie for bringing the guys who can't produce on the team.

GlassSox
09-20-2009, 06:03 PM
I've been wanting Walker's head since early 2008 and this is my basic reasoning... Whatever effect Walker has in reality is minimal to the fact that the Sox have been a below average offensive team really since 2007 and absolutely no one seems to be held accountable. Is it possible that anyone else could do a worse job than him?

I agree, time for a change.

Foulke You
09-20-2009, 06:17 PM
I've been wanting Walker's head since early 2008 and this is my basic reasoning... Whatever effect Walker has in reality is minimal to the fact that the Sox have been a below average offensive team really since 2007 and absolutely no one seems to be held accountable. Is it possible that anyone else could do a worse job than him?
I'm on board with this line of thinking as well. I gave Walker a break in 2007 because of the injuries but 2nd half of '06, all of '08, and now '09 seems to be getting worse with the offense. Something has to change even if he isn't the problem.

Also, this Sunday afternoon losing is getting a little ridiculous now.

BleacherBandit
09-20-2009, 06:24 PM
I know that Rongey may come on here and say that it won't make any difference if we get rid of Walker, but come on, that logic is two fold. It won't make a difference if he stays either. Just do it.

tstrike2000
09-20-2009, 06:26 PM
Bad organization, sure. I meant that at this moment, they're not one of the worst teams in the league by any means.

Lip's right in that they are a garbage team. They're just a garbage team with one stud pitcher that happens to be playing well as of late.

Dick Allen
09-20-2009, 06:28 PM
Lip's right in that they are a garbage team. They're just a garbage team with one stud pitcher that happens to be playing well as of late.The Sox were also losing to them when they weren't playing well.

Tragg
09-20-2009, 06:28 PM
Wise is no Pablo Ozuna.
He's not even a Timo.
He's a 1-tool Terrero.

The Sox finished 9-9 against the Royals. Nice.

dickallen15
09-20-2009, 06:34 PM
I think its time to blame Walker when the Sox don't hit when its time to blame Cooper when a White Sox pitcher gets lit up.

tstrike2000
09-20-2009, 06:38 PM
The Sox were also losing to them when they weren't playing well.

True, but we've also had a bad record against bad teams all year. Just been that kind of year.

captain54
09-20-2009, 06:47 PM
I think its time to blame Walker when the Sox don't hit when its time to blame Cooper when a White Sox pitcher gets lit up.

the Sox failures this season have far more to do with not hitting than with pitchers getting lit up

Hitmen77
09-20-2009, 06:53 PM
I think its time to blame Walker when the Sox don't hit when its time to blame Cooper when a White Sox pitcher gets lit up.

:?: Huh? That's pretty crappy logic right there.

Sox offense has been the problem this season, not pitching. Sox pitching hasn't been consistently underperforming for 4 seasons. The offense has.

Hitmen77
09-20-2009, 07:02 PM
What I'd like to know is how this offense is magically going to be better next year when we're likely to bring back 8 of our 9 starting hitters (all except Dye). I doubt the likes of Abreu or Figgins alone is going to turn things around.

I expect Pods won't repeat this career year. AJ is not likely to hit .310 again. We just have to hope that Quentin and Rios rebound.

russ99
09-20-2009, 07:10 PM
Fun game to go to, but the results sucked.

Freddy has me sold. He's our #5 next year, but Kenny should have a plan B in place, just in case.

You can't let opposing pitchers off the hook so many times and expect to win...

Tragg
09-20-2009, 07:21 PM
What I'd like to know is how this offense is magically going to be better next year when we're likely to bring back 8 of our 9 starting hitters (all except Dye). I doubt the likes of Abreu or Figgins alone is going to turn things around.

I expect Pods won't repeat this career year. AJ is not likely to hit .310 again. We just have to hope that Quentin and Rios rebound.

Hopefully we won't bring back 8 of 9. I don't get the desire for Abreu - we need a RF in his prime or coming into the prime.
I think the problem with hitting is more of talent and somewhat philosophy. I believe the coaching staff needs a shakeup, but I'd move Cora before Walker.

fox23
09-20-2009, 07:28 PM
Yea Walker is in a gots to go situation.... oh well go bears

Oh no no no, Walker doesn't effect the hitters, it is all up to them. Therefore, he should have the job for eternity regardless of the results.

Hitmen77
09-20-2009, 07:34 PM
Hopefully we won't bring back 8 of 9. I don't get the desire for Abreu - we need a RF in his prime or coming into the prime.
I think the problem with hitting is more of talent and somewhat philosophy. I believe the coaching staff needs a shakeup, but I'd move Cora before Walker.

It's not what I'm hoping for either, but it's what I expect. I think they'll bring back Pods because of his success this year and because he won't command a ton of money. The other 7 guys in the lineup seem like locks to be back next year barring some "under the radar" blockbuster trade.

I agree on Abreu. If we're just adding Figgins or a 36 year old Abreu to this lineup, we won't see a significant improvement to our offense.

southside rocks
09-20-2009, 07:37 PM
That was my last game of the season and it was a REALLY depressing way to finish up my Ozzie Plan. :(:

russ99
09-20-2009, 07:44 PM
That was my last game of the season and it was a REALLY depressing way to finish up my Ozzie Plan. :(:

Ditto for me, but I was much more disgusted than depressed...

Frater Perdurabo
09-20-2009, 08:00 PM
I think Rios and Quentin will "progress to the mean" of their career averages. At the same time, I expect Pods and AJ to "regress to the mean."

Next year's defense will be better, simply because 3/4ths of the infield will have another yeah of experience together. This will help the starting rotation and the bullpen, and together with a full season of Peavy I expect the Sox team ERA to get better in 2010.

Next year's bench (Kotsay, Nix and Flowers) will have some pop. Pods will be acceptable at leadoff and in LF/DH. Quentin will be OK in RF. I would still like to add a LH bat to play some corner OF and rotate at DH with Pods and Quentin. Abreu fits the bill perfectly. Obviously I'd like someone younger, but there's no one available as a free agent, unless the Rays decline Crawford's option. The other possibility is a trade. Obviously Crawford would be the best target.

Jeckle2000
09-20-2009, 08:03 PM
For the record I'm on the Fire Greg Walker bandwagon. I've been on it since 2007.

However I'd prefer to focus on something positive.

Freddy Garcia with his longest outing of the year...

8 IP and he did it on only 94 pitches...

That option we hold on him for next year is looking like a bargain.

Our rotation for next year is already looking much better then it was last season...

2010 is going to be AWESOME!

DirtySox
09-20-2009, 08:06 PM
Next year's bench (Kotsay, Nix and Flowers) will have some pop.

Flowers is on the bench next year? I sure hope not.

The Immigrant
09-20-2009, 08:08 PM
Freddy looked good today. Too bad he got stuck with the loss on what should have been an error on Konerko.

Frater Perdurabo
09-20-2009, 08:13 PM
Flowers is on the bench next year? I sure hope not.

I'd like to see him do some catching and some DH-ing, with AJ getting some starts at DH, too.

Tragg
09-20-2009, 08:16 PM
Can Ozzie at least start putting the young guys in the last 2 weeks?

joebro25
09-20-2009, 08:45 PM
I agree with most of you in regards to Walker, hes gotta go, whether or not a hitting coach means anything, get rid of this guy, our offense has shown time and time again we cannot hit with RISP which is a huge problem, and it's easier to get rid of the hitting coach than the players...

chisoxfanatic
09-20-2009, 09:17 PM
We finished 9-9 against the freaking Royals. Terrible.

ChiSoxGirl
09-20-2009, 09:24 PM
Why does Kotsay not bat in place of Dye with 2 out bases loaded in b8 ?

JB98 and I were texting back & forth during the game asking the exact same question.

JB98
09-20-2009, 09:35 PM
JB98 and I were texting back & forth during the game asking the exact same question.

Actually, I thought Kotsay should have been used for Rios in the seventh. Dye was on second and Getz was on first with two out. Why let Rios bat there? He's brutal right now.

Moving on, that's six consecutive quality starts by Garcia. We have found our No. 5 for 2010. It's good to go into the offseason knowing that next year's starting rotation is already in place.

Now, fix the offense. Start by firing the hitting coach and cutting ties with Dye. Can't blame today's poor production on a "Sunday lineup." All the regulars were in there. Unfortunately, they were riding the fail train with RISP, just as they have for most of the year.

soxinem1
09-20-2009, 09:45 PM
I think its time to blame Walker when the Sox don't hit when its time to blame Cooper when a White Sox pitcher gets lit up.

Agreed. Walker is NOT the reason this team is not hitting.

Is it Coops fault he couldn't find his fifth starter half the season when he was supposed to be rehabbing?

Is it Coops fault Linebrink keeps throwing meatballs that lose games?

Is it Coops fault Contreras has a big-time losing record since July 2006?

Is it Coops fault Floyd has a near 6.00 ERA on the road?

Is it Coops fault Buehrle has won one game since his perfecto?

Is it Coops fault that the White Sox pitching staff can be run on at will because almost all of his pitchers haven't the faintest ****ing clue on how to hold a base-runner?

Is it Coops fault that John Buck stole his first base in over three years today because Garcia cannot stop Konerko from stealing?

The answer to all of these questions is no, just like it is not Walker's fault that this team has not been in sync all year.

Just like his fired predecessors who were falsely blamed fall guys too.

Blame the damn players if you have to blame anyone.

JB98
09-20-2009, 09:52 PM
Agreed. Walker is NOT the reason this team is not hitting.

Is it Coops fault he couldn't find his fifth starter half the season when he was supposed to be rehabbing?

Is it Coops fault Linebrink keeps throwing meatballs that lose games?

Is it Coops fault Contreras has a big-time losing record since July 2006?

Is it Coops fault Floyd has a near 6.00 ERA on the road?

Is it Coops fault Buehrle has won one game since his perfecto?

Is it Coops fault that the White Sox pitching staff can be run on at will because almost all of his pitchers haven't the faintest ****ing clue on how to hold a base-runner?

Is it Coops fault that John Buck stole his first base in over three years today because Garcia cannot stop Konerko from stealing?

The answer to all of these questions is no, just like it is not Walker's fault that this team has not been in sync all year.

Just like his fired predecessors who were falsely blamed fall guys too.

Blame the damn players if you have to blame anyone.

Let's take a look at our last several losses:

2-1 to Kansas City today
11-0 to Kansas City Friday
4-3 to Seattle Thursday
4-1 to Seattle Wednesday
3-2 to the Angels last Sunday
7-1 to the Angels on 9/11

So, we're 3-6 in our last nine games. In those six losses, we've scored 8 runs. Count 'em: 8.

We have a good pitching staff. Cooper is doing his job. For the most part, the pitchers are doing their jobs. The offense is the problem. Blame whoever you want. I choose to blame Walker, Dye, Rios and Quentin.

soxinem1
09-20-2009, 10:04 PM
Let's take a look at our last several losses:

2-1 to Kansas City today
11-0 to Kansas City Friday
4-3 to Seattle Thursday
4-1 to Seattle Wednesday
3-2 to the Angels last Sunday
7-1 to the Angels on 9/11

So, we're 3-6 in our last nine games. In those six losses, we've scored 8 runs. Count 'em: 8.

We have a good pitching staff. Cooper is doing his job. For the most part, the pitchers are doing their jobs. The offense is the problem. Blame whoever you want. I choose to blame Walker, Dye, Rios and Quentin.

With a team ERA of nearly 5.00 in those losses. It has been a total team effort.

Should we also blame a coach for miserable defensive play for the entire last decade, except for 2005?

captain54
09-20-2009, 10:08 PM
Agreed. Walker is NOT the reason this team is not hitting.



Walker may not be the reason the team is not hitting, but it sure doesn't seem like he has helped. Even if we can assume he has busted his ass to help, it isn't working.

Given that, it doesn't really seem like it matters then, if he is the hitting coach or if he's not the hitting coach.

So then, why not roll the dice with someone else? It couldn't really be any worse.

Dibbs
09-20-2009, 10:09 PM
Agreed. Walker is NOT the reason this team is not hitting.

Is it Coops fault he couldn't find his fifth starter half the season when he was supposed to be rehabbing?

Is it Coops fault Linebrink keeps throwing meatballs that lose games?

Is it Coops fault Contreras has a big-time losing record since July 2006?

Is it Coops fault Floyd has a near 6.00 ERA on the road?

Is it Coops fault Buehrle has won one game since his perfecto?

Is it Coops fault that the White Sox pitching staff can be run on at will because almost all of his pitchers haven't the faintest ****ing clue on how to hold a base-runner?

Is it Coops fault that John Buck stole his first base in over three years today because Garcia cannot stop Konerko from stealing?

The answer to all of these questions is no, just like it is not Walker's fault that this team has not been in sync all year.

Just like his fired predecessors who were falsely blamed fall guys too.

Blame the damn players if you have to blame anyone.

Then why have any coaches if it all falls on the players? :scratch: Fire Walker and see what happens. There is nothing to lose and plenty to be gained. Besides, hitting has been a big problem the past 2 1/2 years. Only the Mariners and Royals have scored less than we have. Also, we are second in the league in ERA. Your argument is ridiculous, even if you are related to Greg Walker.

TornLabrum
09-20-2009, 10:13 PM
I had a ticket for today's game. I wasn't feeling so hot, so I stayed home. I'm glad I did.

ChiSoxGirl
09-20-2009, 10:15 PM
Actually, I thought Kotsay should have been used for Rios in the seventh. Dye was on second and Getz was on first with two out. Why let Rios bat there? He's brutal right now.

Moving on, that's six consecutive quality starts by Garcia. We have found our No. 5 for 2010. It's good to go into the offseason knowing that next year's starting rotation is already in place.

Now, fix the offense. Start by firing the hitting coach and cutting ties with Dye. Can't blame today's poor production on a "Sunday lineup." All the regulars were in there. Unfortunately, they were riding the fail train with RISP, just as they have for most of the year.

Well, we were thinking of it at the same time; I just couldn't remember which inning it was.

The Sweaty One has been nothing but a very pleasant surprise and nice addition to the rotation. AT THE VERY LEAST, he's earned himself an audition at Spring Training in February. Freddy was awesome today- eight innings of two-run ball on just over 90 pitches. He and Podsednik were the lone bright spots at the ballpark today. What new on Pods?! :wink:

As an aside, it was cold at the ballpark today! Though, maybe if I would have worn jeans and gym shoes rather than shorts and flops, I'd be singing a different tune. :redface:

Danielgosox38
09-20-2009, 10:19 PM
Everyone keeps talking about how good we will be in 2010, but even though we will have an amazing rotation, if our offense continues to suck like it has since the last half of 06, we are still going to be in big trouble.

JB98
09-20-2009, 10:21 PM
With a team ERA of nearly 5.00 in those losses. It has been a total team effort.

Should we also blame a coach for miserable defensive play for the entire last decade, except for 2005?

That 5.00 ERA is basically the result of one poorly-pitched game on Friday night.

The offense has been been horse**** for 3 1/2 years. They start cold every year. They fade in September every year. They can't hit in domes. They can't hit on Sundays. They can't hit against unfamiliar pitchers. They tense up and fail with RISP. They have all these mental phobias. They obviously need a different approach.

Fire Greg Walker. It's overdue. Fire him before he ruins Beckham, who has suddenly decided he's a pull hitter these last few weeks. Fire him, and find somebody who can help Alex Rios figure it out. Fire him, because Ramirez and Quentin have regressed under his tutelage. Enough.

It's time for a change. Please stop defending this guy.

Danielgosox38
09-20-2009, 10:26 PM
That 5.00 ERA is basically the result of one poorly-pitched game on Friday night.

The offense has been been horse**** for 3 1/2 years. They start cold every year. They fade in September every year. They can't hit in domes. They can't hit on Sundays. They can't hit against unfamiliar pitchers. They tense up and fail with RISP. They have all these mental phobias. They obviously need a different approach.

Fire Greg Walker. It's overdue. Fire him before he ruins Beckham, who has suddenly decided he's a pull hitter these last few weeks. Fire him, and find somebody who can help Alex Rios figure it out. Fire him, because Ramirez and Quentin have regressed under his tutelage. Enough.

It's time for a change. Please stop defending this guy.


Absolutely. Agree with everything you just said.

slavko
09-20-2009, 10:43 PM
Walker has his failures, well documented above. Beckham may be a victim of the league figuring out how to get him out. (nothing in the lower part of the strike zone) Cooper has his failures too, but we don't talk about them. (Masset, Aardsma, etc) He may even be responsible for the failure to hold runners.

Things Ozzie has said recently may hint at Walker going. But that's the fate of every hitting coach, isn't it?

Part of it may be the manager's tendency to intimidate players. Yeah, fire Greg Walker. Then we can rag on the next guy.

JB98
09-20-2009, 10:49 PM
Walker has his failures, well documented above. Beckham may be a victim of the league figuring out how to get him out. (nothing in the lower part of the strike zone) Cooper has his failures too, but we don't talk about them. (Masset, Aardsma, etc) He may even be responsible for the failure to hold runners.

Things Ozzie has said recently may hint at Walker going. But that's the fate of every hitting coach, isn't it?

Part of it may be the manager's tendency to intimidate players. Yeah, fire Greg Walker. Then we can rag on the next guy.

Every coach has his failures. But with the exception of 2007, we've always had a good pitching staff under Cooper.

As someone else noted, only the Royals and Mariners are worse than the Sox offensively over the last three years. It's worth noting that Kansas City and Seattle are notorious pitchers parks. The Cell is a hitters paradise. That doesn't stop our hitters from sucking.

Fire Walker. Replace him with somebody else. If the offense still sucks, then you start to look at the manager.

Marqhead
09-20-2009, 10:51 PM
That 5.00 ERA is basically the result of one poorly-pitched game on Friday night.

The offense has been been horse**** for 3 1/2 years. They start cold every year. They fade in September every year. They can't hit in domes. They can't hit on Sundays. They can't hit against unfamiliar pitchers. They tense up and fail with RISP. They have all these mental phobias. They obviously need a different approach.

Fire Greg Walker. It's overdue. Fire him before he ruins Beckham, who has suddenly decided he's a pull hitter these last few weeks. Fire him, and find somebody who can help Alex Rios figure it out. Fire him, because Ramirez and Quentin have regressed under his tutelage. Enough.

It's time for a change. Please stop defending this guy.

I've been on the fence with the Greg Walker situation, mostly because I'm still not sure of how much a coach can impact a team or player in the MLB.

I think this post just convinced me to pick a side. I agree, it's time for a change. The approach doesn't seem to be changing, so the coaching situation needs to.

Lundind1
09-20-2009, 11:12 PM
The dagger. That is all. Many chances blown, just the story of the season.

TheBigHurtST
09-20-2009, 11:42 PM
He has to be canned. He has to be

When it comes to this organization, it probably won't happen if it makes sense.

TheBigHurtST
09-20-2009, 11:47 PM
That 5.00 ERA is basically the result of one poorly-pitched game on Friday night.

The offense has been been horse**** for 3 1/2 years. They start cold every year. They fade in September every year. They can't hit in domes. They can't hit on Sundays. They can't hit against unfamiliar pitchers. They tense up and fail with RISP. They have all these mental phobias. They obviously need a different approach.

Fire Greg Walker. It's overdue. Fire him before he ruins Beckham, who has suddenly decided he's a pull hitter these last few weeks. Fire him, and find somebody who can help Alex Rios figure it out. Fire him, because Ramirez and Quentin have regressed under his tutelage. Enough.

It's time for a change. Please stop defending this guy.

/thread. /argument.

I'm sick and tired of people making excuses to try and make it seem like he can't possibly be at fault. Someone earlier tried to say we don't hold Cooper accountable for HIS failures. I would probably get banned for saying what I want to say to him. The pitching in general has been consistent (at least the rotation). The ENTIRE OFFENSE has been dead for YEARS now. Give me ONE reason why trying another hitting coach isn't a good idea, PLEASE.

No more excuses. No more cop-outs. No more comparisons. There's no reason NOT to try someone new; there just ISN'T. Walker NEEDS to go. PERIOD.

Hitmen77
09-20-2009, 11:54 PM
That 5.00 ERA is basically the result of one poorly-pitched game on Friday night.

The offense has been been horse**** for 3 1/2 years. They start cold every year. They fade in September every year. They can't hit in domes. They can't hit on Sundays. They can't hit against unfamiliar pitchers. They tense up and fail with RISP. They have all these mental phobias. They obviously need a different approach.

Fire Greg Walker. It's overdue. Fire him before he ruins Beckham, who has suddenly decided he's a pull hitter these last few weeks. Fire him, and find somebody who can help Alex Rios figure it out. Fire him, because Ramirez and Quentin have regressed under his tutelage. Enough.

It's time for a change. Please stop defending this guy.

Oh come on, man. Why are you spoiling this argument with "facts"? Don't you get it? Greg Walker is beyond reproach! If he's accountable in any way for our 3 1/2 years of crappy hitting , then you may as well fire Cooper because our pitching hasn't been perfect.

Patrick134
09-21-2009, 12:12 AM
Anyone who has watched the whole season and is trying to scapegoat Walker is crazy. You can say "switch it up for the heck of it", but nothing is Walk's fault.

Tragg
09-21-2009, 12:12 AM
Fire Greg Walker. It's overdue. Fire him before he ruins Beckham, who has suddenly decided he's a pull hitter these last few weeks.

That's what a good hitting coach is for - to help a player pull out of slumps and not get bad habits.
Unfortunately, pulling everything is a habit ingrained into this organization, far deeper than Walker.

Noneck
09-21-2009, 12:24 AM
Unfortunately, pulling everything is a habit ingrained into this organization, far deeper than Walker.
I have seen that for awhile now and it is not necessary in the Sox band box. I was amused at Peavys face when he realized Butlers little poke to right on Saturday was a homer.

tstrike2000
09-21-2009, 12:54 AM
Fire Walker. Replace him with somebody else. If the offense still sucks, then you start to look at the manager.

I don't disagree with firing Walker, but a bigger issue is the personnel on the field. When your MVP on the offense is probably Podsednik, obviously we need to change some of the makeup of the order. And it doesn't mean huge changes because for the most part the lineup will be intact. AJ, Konerko, Alexei, and Beckham will still be part of the lineup. It's what are they going to do with Dye and will Rios hit in '10? Does KW even consider Pods for DH? Just one of many questions.

VMSNS
09-21-2009, 01:06 AM
Another day, another loss to a ****ty team. What else is there to say?


That 5.00 ERA is basically the result of one poorly-pitched game on Friday night.

The offense has been been horse**** for 3 1/2 years. They start cold every year. They fade in September every year. They can't hit in domes. They can't hit on Sundays. They can't hit against unfamiliar pitchers. They tense up and fail with RISP. They have all these mental phobias. They obviously need a different approach.

Fire Greg Walker. It's overdue. Fire him before he ruins Beckham, who has suddenly decided he's a pull hitter these last few weeks. Fire him, and find somebody who can help Alex Rios figure it out. Fire him, because Ramirez and Quentin have regressed under his tutelage. Enough.

It's time for a change. Please stop defending this guy.


Hit the nail right on the head.

Nellie_Fox
09-21-2009, 01:16 AM
I'd like to see him do some catching and some DH-ing, with AJ getting some starts at DH, too.You planning on carrying three catchers next year? It's risky to DH one of two catchers; it's doubly risky to plan to do it a lot.

Fire him before he ruins Beckham, who has suddenly decided he's a pull hitter these last few weeks.Sometimes people only see things that support their preconceived notions. I've seen Beckham go to right center and right recently when the pitch allowed it. Ever think that the other teams have noticed how dangerous he is in the gaps and are giving him pitches that he can only pull? You can only hit the ball where it's pitched.

TDog
09-21-2009, 02:21 AM
Can Ozzie at least start putting the young guys in the last 2 weeks?

You mean Beckham and Getz?

white sox bill
09-21-2009, 07:20 AM
When will I wake up and end this nightmare.
What Double M said...in two wks. Hope you don't live on Elm Street.

JB98
09-21-2009, 02:16 PM
You planning on carrying three catchers next year? It's risky to DH one of two catchers; it's doubly risky to plan to do it a lot.

Sometimes people only see things that support their preconceived notions. I've seen Beckham go to right center and right recently when the pitch allowed it. Ever think that the other teams have noticed how dangerous he is in the gaps and are giving him pitches that he can only pull? You can only hit the ball where it's pitched.

C'mon Nellie. Gordon is pulling off of everything. He's also chasing high pitches out of the zone. He's lost a full 40 points off his batting average in the last five or six weeks. From about .310 down to about .270.

Look at all the guys this club has that are in extended slumps: Dye, Rios, Beckham and Quentin. All of them are struggling, struggling, struggling and struggling some more. Every hitter slumps, but these guys have been in funks for weeks upon weeks. Nearly half the lineup is in an extended slump.

It just mystifies me that people continue to think Greg Walker is doing his job. This offense is AWFUL. It has ruined our season. Ruined it completely. Detroit has been scuffling, and the door has been open to make a run these last few weeks. The Sox have pissed this opportunity away by refusing to score runs.

JB98
09-21-2009, 02:18 PM
Anyone who has watched the whole season and is trying to scapegoat Walker is crazy. You can say "switch it up for the heck of it", but nothing is Walk's fault.

I'm not saying "switch it up for the heck of it." I've given many specific examples of the White Sox offensive failures to support my stance that the Sox should change hitting coaches.

Nellie_Fox
09-21-2009, 02:33 PM
C'mon Nellie. Gordon is pulling off of everything. He's also chasing high pitches out of the zone. He's lost a full 40 points off his batting average in the last five or six weeks. From about .310 down to about .270.

Look at all the guys this club has that are in extended slumps: Dye, Rios, Beckham and Quentin. All of them are struggling, struggling, struggling and struggling some more. Every hitter slumps, but these guys have been in funks for weeks upon weeks. Nearly half the lineup is in an extended slump.

It just mystifies me that people continue to think Greg Walker is doing his job. This offense is AWFUL. It has ruined our season. Ruined it completely. Detroit has been scuffling, and the door has been open to make a run these last few weeks. The Sox have pissed this opportunity away by refusing to score runs.Rios has sucked since the moment he got here. I don't think that even the evil genius that is Walker can screw a guy up that fast. Also, if Walker gets the blame for Dye, how did Dye manage to go this long before Walker ruined him? As for Quentin, what change in his approach do you see? I see a guy who is not fully recovered from his foot injury. IIRC, TCQ was leading the AL in homers, getting to 8 very quickly, before he got hurt. Since coming back, he has been struggling.

Personally, I don't care whether Walker is back or not. I just wonder how people know what really goes on, and can assign blame (other than a general responsibility for the hitting.) I'm amazed at all the "insider" knowledge of message board posters.

How do you know that Beckham's problems stem from anything Walker has done (or not done?) Or is it just that any player slumping is Walker's fault, and any player going well is a coincidence?

Crestani
09-21-2009, 07:05 PM
Rios has sucked since the moment he got here. I don't think that even the evil genius that is Walker can screw a guy up that fast. Also, if Walker gets the blame for Dye, how did Dye manage to go this long before Walker ruined him? As for Quentin, what change in his approach do you see? I see a guy who is not fully recovered from his foot injury. IIRC, TCQ was leading the AL in homers, getting to 8 very quickly, before he got hurt. Since coming back, he has been struggling.

Personally, I don't care whether Walker is back or not. I just wonder how people know what really goes on, and can assign blame (other than a general responsibility for the hitting.) I'm amazed at all the "insider" knowledge of message board posters.

How do you know that Beckham's problems stem from anything Walker has done (or not done?) Or is it just that any player slumping is Walker's fault, and any player going well is a coincidence?

These are all very valid points that probably make too much sense for all of us.

Having said that, for everyone Psyche, Walker should go.

Frater Perdurabo
09-21-2009, 07:53 PM
You planning on carrying three catchers next year? It's risky to DH one of two catchers; it's doubly risky to plan to do it a lot.

I agree it's risky if the Sox only have two catchers. I would recommend carrying three. It's possible if the Sox don't carry a DH-only player like Thome, and have flexible guys like Kotsay and Nix on the bench.

Waysouthsider
09-21-2009, 08:22 PM
I can't even imagine how this years pitching could be so good and we could still suck this bad....! What a drag? Guess no defense and no hitting trumps pitching????? :o::o::o::o:

I think if Walker can't get seasoned veterans with a history of performance to catch up to the game he needs to go....I know I'm sure tired of this...its excruciatingly painful to watch....YeeeeeOoooooowwww! :angry::angry::angry:

SI1020
09-21-2009, 09:43 PM
At various times this year I've watched the Angels hitters take the opposition pitching to the cleaners. Just doing whatever it takes to work a count, find a good pitch to hit and put it out of reach of the defense. Then you watch our team and it's this same sad rerun game after game untill you want to put your head through the nearest wall. When if ever is it time for a change? It seems like some feel that it's wrong to even think of it.