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LITTLE NELL
09-20-2009, 11:31 AM
My hate of the BoSox is right up there with the Flubs.
My question is, was there a defining moment that made the Red Sox so popular and gave us Red Sox Nation. I can see the Cubs, Braves and even the White Sox having a national following since they televise games on a superstation but for the life of me I can't figure out what the heck makes the Red Sox so popular. What have I missed?

Whappeh
09-20-2009, 11:50 AM
2004, 2007 and the domination of other Boston sports teams in recent history.

Marqhead
09-20-2009, 11:55 AM
When ESPN started hyping up their championship drought in the late 90's early 00's.

voodoochile
09-20-2009, 12:08 PM
The BoSox have always drawn well and unlike the flubbies have made several runs at a championship over the last 4+ decades including the memorable seven game series in 1975 against the Reds.

The advent of ESPN's hype and then subsequent WS titles gave them an instant national following. The fact that they play in an old stadium and had such a long drought also factored into play.

Ted Williams and the fact they sold Babe Ruth certainly factor into the equation too...

LongLiveFisk
09-20-2009, 12:31 PM
Maybe their constant, long-lasting struggle against a much-hated rival who had unparallelled success endeared them to a lot of people. Red Sox vs. Yankees was sort of a David vs. Goliath battle. That's actually my opinion of why they have gotten so much love, especially from ESPN which is based in New England. Their bias may annoy people, but it certainly shouldn't surprise them.

Madscout
09-20-2009, 12:40 PM
Maybe their constant, long-lasting struggle against a much-hated rival who had unparallelled success endeared them to a lot of people. Red Sox vs. Yankees was sort of a David vs. Goliath battle. That's actually my opinion of why they have gotten so much love, especially from ESPN which is based in New England. Their bias may annoy people, but it certainly shouldn't surprise them.
Yeah. Do you remember the beginning of the 04' ALCS. I remember the first game they were going through different people in both the Yankee and Sawks organizations and comparing them to Star Wars characters. I love Star Wars, so any plug I see for it is cool, but wow was it ridiculous.

TDog
09-20-2009, 01:04 PM
Chicago, New York and Boston have always had a strong national following because so many people leave those cities to move west and south (often to California, where, as Joan Didion wrote, it has to work there because they've run out of continent.) Boston was full of people who immigrated from Ireland, and their generations kept moving, picking up the Red Sox along the way. Boston also has a bunch of universities, so young adults pass through from all over the country. The Red Sox also are New England's team, with no competition wince the Braves left.

And along the way, you had Ted Williams, who was much more appreciated outside of Boston, and the Impossible Dream of 1967 that fell short and the myth of th curse, which picked up momentum with the Bill Buckner inning. When I started following baseball in the late 1960s, Fenway park was considered a special place, even when only Ernie Banks and Jack Brickhouse were celebrating Wrigley Field.

Noneck
09-20-2009, 01:44 PM
I never remember Fenway Park as a special place but a unique place. It was (and still is) a hand ball court for right handed hitters and they play baseball there.

When I started watching baseball in the early 60's, they were a total non factor and I remember no rivalry with the yanks. Attendance wise they drew flies. 67 is what put them on the map in my lifetime and subsequently the yanks rivalry.

I am sure a blosox fan can give a lot deeper perspective on this but this is all I remember.

LITTLE NELL
09-20-2009, 01:58 PM
I never remember Fenway Park as a special place but a unique place. It was (and still is) a hand ball court for right handed hitters and they play baseball there.

When I started watching baseball in the early 60's, they were a total non factor and I remember no rivalry with the yanks. Attendance wise they drew flies. 67 is what put them on the map in my lifetime and subsequently the yanks rivalry.

I am sure a blosox fan can give a lot deeper perspective on this but this is all I remember.
That is my take on it also, in fact I go back about 10 years before you and I remember only the Yankees, Tigers and Indians as having the largest crowds in Old Comiskey. The Red Sox were losers until 67. I was stationed on the east coast that year and the BoSox were a big story but we all know that the White Sox led most of the way that year and blew it in the last week.

TDog
09-20-2009, 06:46 PM
That is my take on it also, in fact I go back about 10 years before you and I remember only the Yankees, Tigers and Indians as having the largest crowds in Old Comiskey. The Red Sox were losers until 67. I was stationed on the east coast that year and the BoSox were a big story but we all know that the White Sox led most of the way that year and blew it in the last week.

Things changed in 1967, in the Impossible Dream season. The Red Sox hadn't been very good up to that point, going back to when Ted Williams left to fly missions in an A-4 during the Korean War. Things changed for the Cubs locally in 1967 and nationally in 1969.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-20-2009, 07:25 PM
TDog, you have a point about New Englanders migrating west and bringing Bosox love with them -- just on my corridor at work there are two, one originally from Maine and the other from New Hampshire.

I, too, do not recall big Red Sox crowds at Sox Park in the 70s or 80s -- certainly nothing compared to the Yankees fans. Now they infest the place.

TDog
09-20-2009, 07:46 PM
TDog, you have a point about New Englanders migrating west and bringing Bosox love with them -- just on my corridor at work there are two, one originally from Maine and the other from New Hampshire.

I, too, do not recall big Red Sox crowds at Sox Park in the 70s or 80s -- certainly nothing compared to the Yankees fans. Now they infest the place.

In 1977, I went to several Red Sox games at old Comiskey, and I was always sitting next to a Red Sox fan. Although I always caught the White Sox on weekends in Anaheim when I lived in Arizona, there are fans who only come out when there team is on top, so you're going to see more Red Sox fans at road games in the last five years or so.

Railsplitter
09-20-2009, 08:33 PM
Ken Burns seemed to think baseball was only played in Boston and New York, and The Curse of the Bambino crap was cooked up by a Boston writer around 1990.

Noneck
09-20-2009, 08:37 PM
Ken Burns seemed to think baseball was only played in Boston and New York, and The Curse of the Bambino crap was cooked up by a Boston writer around 1990.

I never heard that nonsense until about that time. Probably cubs competition at that time.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2009, 09:18 PM
Voodoo:

With respect throughout most of the 1960's and in some of the 1970's the Red Sox couldn't draw flies with three day old garbage at Fenway Park. Look up their attendance figures from say 1960 through 1966 for example. They were a bad team and had a bad fan base.

To answer the original question, this crap started thanks to the Eastern Sports Programming Network.

Lip

MarkZ35
09-21-2009, 01:18 AM
I'm only in my twenties so I can't mention how far back but from living in Chicago I've noticed that the Red Sox are the 2nd favorite team of many Cub fans for whatever reason. Maybe because of the old stadiums or the drought, I don't get it. As we all know the Cubs have a very large following throughout the US. So that could possibly be a part and also ESPN has drooled over the Red Sox the past 10 years because they've been much better than in years past.

Hitmen77
09-28-2009, 12:31 PM
Before the 1990s, I liked the Red Sox. But now they're ranked #28 in my book only ahead of the Yankees and Cubs.

I think others have already summed up pretty well what made the Red Sox so hateable. They used to be kind of like the White Sox to me: underrated, always coming up short somehow, not the center of attention. Now they just feel more like the AL version of the Cubs with all the "long suffering" Red Sox nation crap, celebrity fans, and one of only a few teams that supposedly even matter anymore.:rolleyes:

Another thing I hate is the fact that the Red Sox are right behind the Yankees in running up salary levels and just spending as needed to win. But the worst thing, THE WORST...the thing that really makes be hate the Red Sox is this almost universal notion now that the Red Sox and Cubs (and their fans) are somehow "soulmates" for being the only 2 teams that had to suffer through such a long championship drought. :rolleyes: Red Sox "nation" had to suffer 86 years without a championship! 86 years!!! Outside of the Cubs, what fans ever had to go through such a thing?!

It used to be that many teams in baseball were relevant. Nowadays, if you listen to the national media (ESPN is the worst, but it's not just them), the only teams that matter are the Yankees and Red Sox, plus the beloved Cubs and maybe a few other teams like the Cardinals and Dodgers. It used to be that teams like the Royals and Pirates made it to the World Series and all the buzz in the national media was about them. Now, when a team like the White Sox or Rays dares to make it to the World Series, all we ever hear from the national media is all pissing and moaning about how "nobody cares" about these teams, this is bad for ratings, this is bad for baseball, blah, blah, blah, blah! When the 2005 WS was the lowest rated on record, this was a well documented story that every Cubs and Red Sox fan seemed to memorize. When the 2007 WS became the lowest rated ever...POOF!!! it was magically a non-story. No one hardly even heard this fact.

...oh and my anti-Red Sox rant would not be complete without mentioning that one of the biggest insults came in 2005 when ESPN put Mr. Fatso Red Sox Fan behind the mike to crap all over our post season run. Saying "we" when referring to the Red Sox during that coverage:rolleyes:, the infamous "oohhhhh noooooooo!!!!! everybody is safe!!!! :whiner: " after Graffanino's big error, and the total kicker was actually mentioning the Red Sox first after the final out of the ALDS - because apparently the real story was the end of the Red Sox dream of repeating...oh and by the way the White Sox won the series. Nice.

So for that, all I want to say is **** you ESPN, **** you Berman, and **** you Red Sox "nation" for having the exact same attitude as your cheerleader Berman.

C-Dawg
09-28-2009, 01:42 PM
But the worst thing, THE WORST...the thing that really makes be hate the Red Sox is this almost universal notion now that the Red Sox and Cubs (and their fans) are somehow "soulmates" for being the only 2 teams that had to suffer through such a long championship drought.

Ironically, this notion probably never occurred to anyone prior to the Red Sox' success in 2004 followed by their visit to Wrigley Field in 2005. The local media here certainly treated it as though it was special! So many interviews with various fans claiming "the Red Sox were always my second favorite team..." The one guy they showed on the news with the half-Red Sox, half Cub jersey was the best! I'll bet no one in Boston thought those two teams were related - ever!

Boerrs and Bernstein did a great segment on the supposed "link" between the two fanbases; basically they shot it full of holes. It was hilarious!

TommyJohn
09-28-2009, 01:54 PM
I honestly think that ESPN contributed to the Red Sox' appeal. Seriously, who outside of New England even cared before that? The Burns' doc also contributed-it spent an inordinate amount of time on Game 6 of the 1986 world series-it also featured Doris Kearns Goodwin yapping about how she became a Red Sox fan after the Dodgers left Brooklyn because they were similar, or some such crap.

I cannot take "Red Sox Nation" acting like they are the most loyal fans on earth, no one has felt their special pain, blah, blah, blah. Phillies fans went through a 97 year drought. Did they call press conferences and write books to blabber on about their pain and anguish? Did they make movies about the collapse of 1964 and act as if it was a turning point in world history? NO! They simply bucked up, accepted reality and booed Santa Claus.

I did like the Red Sox, but now they are lower than the crybaby bitch Twins on my scale. I cannot stand them. The ESPN bias is one reason. Another is their treatment of Bill Buckner. The year-long pity party after 2003 and all the hand-wringing over Bucky Dent are also factors. And then there is the deranged individual (a sportswriter) who went on TV and declared "whatever bad you can do to Bill Buckner can never be enough. He broke the hearts of six million people." I can't say on this board what I would like to see happen to that guy.

To, the ultimate insult of 2004-05 was when Sports Illustrated's "Sportsmen of the Year" were "the Red Sox and their fans." WHAT???? You've got to be kidding me!!!!! The White Sox take it in 2005 and they don't even rate the front cover, like every other baseball champion.

Risk
09-28-2009, 02:11 PM
I agree with many of the reasons that have already been stated as to when the hatred of the Blo Sox and their "Nation" began, but I would like to add that with even their most recent successes, their fanbase still seems to hold on to their ever perpetuating victim complex and they still expect the rest of the baseball to treat them with reverence.

Everytime I hear a Red Sox fan bemoaning the Yankees, all I can do is roll my eyes (and try hard not to blurt out a well-deserved insult) since their fanbase and their team has become exactly what they used to despise.

Risk

Fenway
09-28-2009, 02:16 PM
Voodoo:

With respect throughout most of the 1960's and in some of the 1970's the Red Sox couldn't draw flies with three day old garbage at Fenway Park. Look up their attendance figures from say 1960 through 1966 for example. They were a bad team and had a bad fan base.

To answer the original question, this crap started thanks to the Eastern Sports Programming Network.

Lip

Opening Day of 1967 the Red Sox drew 8,500 against the White Sox. ( I was there ). The Red Sox trailed the Bruins and Celtics in fan support and Yawkey told Will McDonough he was thinking of moving the team as the city and state would not build him a ballpark.

67 changed everything.

The 1975 World Series which because of a few days of rain became the first prime time WS elevated the Red Sox.

The 1978 race in the AL East also contributed.

The Red Sox along with the Yankees and Mets were all on mini-superstations by that time. WSBK was on cable in Manhattan as as far west as Buffalo and a good chunk of Canada as well.

Then came 1986 and Game Six at Shea and for the first time the Curse was mentioned.

ESPN in their early days could only get highlights from Boston and NY over the air the same day as local stations didn't start using satellite transmissions until the mid 80's.

Around 1990 came sports radio and WFAN and WEEI were spawned.

The college factor plays a big part. So many students (especially women) from all over who never cared about baseball before fell in love with Fenway and the Red Sox. When the internet exploded in 1995 these people reconnected with the team.

Throw in the fact that Boston for the past 40 years has usually competed with very few bad teams and has usually had some interesting players.

There were thousands of Boston fans last week in Kansas City and everyone I spoke to had a legit New England connection.

This Red Sox Nation stuff drives me nuts as I was a fan when nobody except the hardcores cared.

MarkZ35
09-28-2009, 03:33 PM
There were thousands of Boston fans last week in Kansas City and everyone I spoke to had a legit New England connection.

This Red Sox Nation stuff drives me nuts as I was a fan when nobody except the hardcores cared.
It just dawned on me. I once had a professor from Boston. That's the connection I've been needing for years to become a Red Sox fan. http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u269/Zephon777/GuinnessBrilliant.jpg

soxfanatlanta
09-28-2009, 03:50 PM
Phillies fans went through a 97 year drought. Did they call press conferences and write books to blabber on about their pain and anguish? Did they make movies about the collapse of 1964 and act as if it was a turning point in world history? NO! They simply bucked up, accepted reality and booed Santa Claus.

Post of the week!

:rolling:

SI1020
09-28-2009, 03:53 PM
Post of the week!

:rolling: Beat me to it. One of the best ever, not just this week.

DumpJerry
09-28-2009, 04:01 PM
First off, I don't see the national media fawning over the Cubs like they used to. The national media has caught on to what the locals have not: the Cubs will never be Prime Time.

Secondly, while it seems to be a requirement for buying Cubs paraphernalia, the love Cub fans show the Red Sox is not reciprocated. True Red Sox fans want nothing to do with the Cubs and their culture of losing. The Red Sox won a World Series after a long drought (but less than 100 years) and Cub fans flocked to them like they were brothers in arms. Red Sox fans had the attitude (rightly so) that "it's our parade, get off the float."

None of this means I enjoy dealing with Red Sox fans at the park. They are head and shoulders above all other teams when it comes to annoying fans.

Paulwny
09-28-2009, 04:04 PM
[QUOTE=Fenway;2360679]
When the internet exploded in 1995 these people reconnected with the team. QUOTE]


BINGO !

doublem23
09-28-2009, 07:47 PM
Post of the week!

:rolling:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=13&id=3900

asindc
09-28-2009, 09:09 PM
I cannot take "Red Sox Nation" acting like they are the most loyal fans on earth, no one has felt their special pain, blah, blah, blah. Phillies fans went through a 97 year drought. Did they call press conferences and write books to blabber on about their pain and anguish? Did they make movies about the collapse of 1964 and act as if it was a turning point in world history? NO! They simply bucked up, accepted reality and booed Santa Claus.

Agreed. I think my sig applies just as well in this case.

SOXSINCE'70
09-28-2009, 09:48 PM
[QUOTE=TommyJohn;2360669]Phillies fans went through a 97 year drought. Did they call press conferences and write books to blabber on about their pain and anguish? Did they make movies about the collapse of 1964 and act as if it was a turning point in world history? NO! They simply bucked up, accepted reality and booed Santa Claus. [QUOTE]


They also yelled endless obscenities at Dick Allen.

SOXSINCE'70
09-28-2009, 09:49 PM
[QUOTE=Lip Man 1;2356796
To answer the original question, this crap started thanks to the Eastern Sports Programming Network.

Lip[/QUOTE]

I prefer to think of them as the Employ Stupid People Network.

chisoxfanatic
09-28-2009, 10:13 PM
If I could eliminate one nation at all, I'd spare Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, and all of those other places. I'd choose to eliminate Red Sox Nation.

MARTINMVP
09-28-2009, 10:21 PM
This site absolutely freakin' rules because of posts like up above.

LongLiveFisk
09-28-2009, 10:24 PM
Secondly, while it seems to be a requirement for buying Cubs paraphernalia, the love Cub fans show the Red Sox is not reciprocated. True Red Sox fans want nothing to do with the Cubs and their culture of losing. The Red Sox won a World Series after a long drought (but less than 100 years) and Cub fans flocked to them like they were brothers in arms. Red Sox fans had the attitude (rightly so) that "it's our parade, get off the float."

I'd have to agree. Cubs fans wear Red Sox gear. I don't know how many Red Sox fans wear Cubbie blue, and why would they?

asindc
09-28-2009, 10:37 PM
I'd have to agree. Cubs fans wear Red Sox gear. I don't know how many Red Sox fans wear Cubbie blue, and why would they?

That's pathetic.

TommyJohn
09-28-2009, 10:49 PM
[QUOTE=TommyJohn;2360669]Phillies fans went through a 97 year drought. Did they call press conferences and write books to blabber on about their pain and anguish? Did they make movies about the collapse of 1964 and act as if it was a turning point in world history? NO! They simply bucked up, accepted reality and booed Santa Claus. [QUOTE]


They also yelled endless obscenities at Dick Allen.

True. Philly had a rep as a virulently racist city. But then again, so did Boston.

DumpJerry
09-28-2009, 10:55 PM
I'd have to agree. Cubs fans wear Red Sox gear. I don't know how many Red Sox fans wear Cubbie blue, and why would they?

That's pathetic.
It is, asindc. Go to a Red Sox game at Comiskey and look for the person in the brand new jersey and/or hat. You will notice right away the Midwest accent. Ask them where they are from and the response is usually some downstate Illinois town. Then ask if they're a Cub fan and they will weakly answer "yes."

DumpJerry
09-28-2009, 10:56 PM
If I could eliminate one nation at all, I'd spare Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, and all of those other places. I'd choose to eliminate Red Sox Nation.
Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore them? Except for when the Red Sox are here, it is pretty easy to do so.

Big D
09-29-2009, 12:04 AM
I don't like the Red Sox either, but I do respect how well run the franchise is. It's bull**** to say that they win only because they spend so much money. Of course it helps, but the Cubs and Mets actually have higher payrolls than the Red Sox this year, and it certainly hasn't helped those two teams very much. The Red Sox have drafted very well this decade, and they have a great farm system. The Cubs and Mets have pretty much ignored those two areas (and unfortunately, so have the White Sox until recently). When you combine that with the financial advantages the Red Sox have, it's not surprising they've been so good.

That being said, yes, the Red Sox Nation crap is annoying as hell.