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View Full Version : *Official* 'Hopes Of Even A .500 Season Are Buehrle Alive' 9/18 Post Game Thread


soxinem1
09-18-2009, 09:41 PM
And the beat goes on....

CLR01
09-18-2009, 09:42 PM
You should be banned for this title. Just saying...:shakehead:

Soxman219
09-18-2009, 09:42 PM
F this team. :angry::angry::angry:

LongLiveFisk
09-18-2009, 09:43 PM
Wow, you really have to feel for those people who paid money to see this suckfest tonight. :angry:

cleanwsox
09-18-2009, 09:43 PM
I guess Luke Hochevar finally figured it all out.

soxinem1
09-18-2009, 09:44 PM
You should be banned for this title. Just saying...:shakehead:

Don't think it didn't hurt. But he has been part of the collapse the last seven weeks.

CLR01
09-18-2009, 09:45 PM
Don't think it didn't hurt. But he has been part of the collapse the last seven weeks.

I talking strickly for your play on his name. :smile:

Patrick134
09-18-2009, 09:46 PM
Olivo had more ribi's tonight than Dye has had in the last 34 games.

all*star quentin
09-18-2009, 09:46 PM
Wow, you really have to feel for those people who paid money to see this suckfest tonight. :angry:

First 20,000 got a green Sox cap.

TDog
09-18-2009, 09:47 PM
The Royals are playing more inspired baseball than the White Sox right now after they finished playing more inspired baseball against the Tigers.

It would have been a different game if the Sox could have brought home Wise from second with none out in the third to tie it. (It wouldn't do any good to point out the three players who failed to bring him home.)

Brian26
09-18-2009, 09:48 PM
Olivo had more ribi's tonight than Dye has had in the last 34 games.

:rolling:

CLR01
09-18-2009, 09:48 PM
First 20,000 got a green Sox cap.


I'm sure the cheap green hat was worth the money some of them paid.

GlassSox
09-18-2009, 09:48 PM
First 20,000 got a green Sox cap.

They needed them to throw up into.

soxinem1
09-18-2009, 09:49 PM
I talking strickly for your play on his name. :smile:

I hear you, but that two-out, bases-loaded walk to one of the games biggest swing-at-everything-close guys did it for me, even if it was MB!:angry:

soxinem1
09-18-2009, 09:50 PM
:rolling:

Olivo having more of anything than Dye except K's is actually :whiner::whiner:

TDog
09-18-2009, 09:52 PM
Olivo had more ribi's tonight than Dye has had in the last 34 games.

Dye didn't even play tonight so he should be blameless. Just as it is irrelevant to tonight's proceedings that Rios has himself had just three RBIs since joining the White Sox more than a month ago.

A. Cavatica
09-18-2009, 09:53 PM
**** this team of puke-gutted ******* suckers.

Gavin
09-18-2009, 09:53 PM
no words
should have sent a poet

JB98
09-18-2009, 09:54 PM
:anon:

Next time someone says these guys "never quit," remember this game. And that 10-0 loss in New York.

Patrick134
09-18-2009, 09:55 PM
Dye didn't even play tonight so he should be blameless. Just as it is irrelevant to tonight's proceedings that Rios has himself had just three RBIs since joining the White Sox more than a month ago.
I actually like JD, and am mystified by his slump. But if he had a mediocre 2nd half as opposed to a hellacious one, the Sox would be 3 games out at worst right now. That's taking into account other guys(Rios) foibles as well.

Brian26
09-18-2009, 09:56 PM
Dye didn't even play tonight so he should be blameless.

He didn't play tonight because he played his pathetic self out of the lineup, per Ozzie's tirade last night. Not so indirectly, he's just as much to blame as anyone else.

CLR01
09-18-2009, 09:57 PM
Maybe the rest of the series could be played with drinking themed games. We could see if Oney is telling the truth.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-18-2009, 09:57 PM
Wow, you really have to feel for those people who paid money to see this suckfest tonight. :angry:

All I got to say is, THANK GOD my credit card went over, thus forcing me to spend my Sox ticket money on that instead of this waste of a game.

Good work, Chase. You saved me from a cold, bitter night.

A. Cavatica
09-18-2009, 09:57 PM
I actually like JD, and am mystified by his slump. But if he had a mediocre 2nd half as opposed to a hellacious one, the Sox would be 3 games out at worst right now. That's taking into account other guys(Rios) foibles as well.

Maybe he really, really didn't want the Sox picking up his option?

TDog
09-18-2009, 09:58 PM
I actually like JD, and am mystified by his slump. But if he had a mediocre 2nd half as opposed to a hellacious one, the Sox would be 3 games out at worst right now. That's taking into account other guys(Rios) foibles as well.

That could be said about several regulars, at least as it applies to their play during the last month.

Patrick134
09-18-2009, 09:59 PM
That could be said about several regulars, at least as it applies to their play during the last month.


Amen, by no means is JD solely to blame.

Crestani
09-18-2009, 10:00 PM
:anon:

Next time someone says these guys "never quit," remember this game. And that 10-0 loss in New York.


I'm concerned that Walker might sign with another team next year since he will be in so much demand...!!:whiner::whiner::whiner:

VMSNS
09-18-2009, 10:02 PM
I think I've officially given up on this team. After I watch Peavy pitch tomorrow, there's no longer anything worth seeing and I can finally put this season behind me. This team is beyond pathetic. We don't deserve 3rd place.

If Greg Walker isn't gone next year, I'm going to have serious, serious doubts about this clubs intelligence. And, I've never been on the "Fire Ozzie!" bandwagon, but I gotta tell you guys, this season is really making me question whether he can ever again produce a good season with this franchise. I also feel bad for Kenny. Sure, he sat on his ass this off season, but I think he made up for it by acquiring Peavy and Rios. And how does this team repay him? By ****ting their pants. Pathetic.

Sorry to be such a downer. Maybe it's because I just got done with a hard day at work/school. Whatever. I've had it with this team.


http://kcillini77.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/morton_salt.jpg

PaleHoser
09-18-2009, 10:06 PM
I told my wife tonight about Ozzie's threats to shuffle the lineup. Her reply was "You can shuffle **** and it will still smell like ****."

Where are the grinders? :whiner:

thomas35forever
09-18-2009, 10:13 PM
Wow. Glad I missed this crap tonight. I'm going to refrain from saying anything because I'm afraid I might repeat the thoughts of other posters.

MarkZ35
09-18-2009, 10:18 PM
It isn't solely one person on this team or one coach but there really needs to be changes. Coaches and players. I think it is time for Ozzie to take some responsibility so that the players can just relax and stop pressing. For the players that Ozzie thinks are giving up, he should ride their ass so they want to leave. Find out who really wants to win and play hard.

At this point it isn't about this year but for the next few years. There is very little doubt that the 1-4 starters will be among the top next year if they stay healthy. I don't want it to be ruined by Ozzies crew. I just hope that this coaching staff doesn't ruin Beckham.

Martinigirl
09-18-2009, 10:21 PM
I feel like I am in an abusive relationship with this team. I keep going back for more pain and suffering.

I know I should stop watching, but I also know when baseball is over, I will miss it.

God we are just awful.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-18-2009, 10:24 PM
no words
should have sent a poet


Some Sox games are sweet delight,
Some Sox games are endless night.

(Apologies to Blake.)

Edit: replace "games" with "seasons"?

Lip Man 1
09-18-2009, 10:25 PM
Gutless effort. They've got very little pride apparently. You can bet Kenny is taking this all in and seething.

Two more weeks than it's over and done.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
09-18-2009, 10:26 PM
Good news: The uniforms looked good. I liked that we had green helmets, socks, undersleeves, etc.

Bad news: Everything else.

roylestillman
09-18-2009, 10:27 PM
Miserable.

On to the Blackhawks tomorrow.

sox1970
09-18-2009, 10:31 PM
If you look at the opening day lineup and roster, this team didn't have much of a chance from the beginning. It will be a better roster next year. It will be an easy decision to not pick up Dye's option. The biggest worry Kenny is going to have this winter is the condition of Rios and Quentin. If they don't show up to spring training healthy and ready to be productive, this team is going to be awful again next year.

GoGoCrede
09-18-2009, 10:54 PM
LOL. What a turd of a game. That's the first time I've ever left a Sox game early (well, the second. But in my defense, we were at Dodger stadium, down 6-0 in the 9th with Boone Logan pitching).

At least I got a hat, so I can remember this night for years to come. :mad::rolleyes::tongue:

I knew the baseball gods had given me too much this season. I was 5-0 in my past few games.

Oh, well. The hot dogs were good. :)

chisoxjtrain
09-18-2009, 11:09 PM
Cool hats, nice to see my heritage honored, but what a craptastic game.

doublem23
09-18-2009, 11:19 PM
First 20,000 got a green Sox cap.

Yep.

http://a.espncdn.com/espnradiostations/i/chicago/clients/client_millerchirish250.jpg

Patch on the side of the hat. At least it wasn't a total waste.

twinsuck
09-18-2009, 11:20 PM
Wow, you really have to feel for those people who paid money to see this suckfest tonight. :angry:
That's me. :(: The only good thing is that I got a batting practice ball and I got one of those green hats. :cool: It's all good.

SoxSpeed22
09-18-2009, 11:21 PM
Poopy.

doublem23
09-18-2009, 11:22 PM
14 games left, we need to go 10-4 to even salvage a winning season out of this mess.

whitesoxfan
09-18-2009, 11:26 PM
Embarrassing. They've obviously quit so they're not worth my time and energy.

gobears1987
09-18-2009, 11:38 PM
I was blessed to have been in services instead of watching this game. Quite a difference from last year when the game I missed set up Game 163.

DirtySox
09-18-2009, 11:46 PM
Flowers DHing tomorrow.

http://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/4095987028

Hitmen77
09-18-2009, 11:47 PM
Pathetic. Total team implosion. Period.

Just incredible that we give up 11 runs to the Royals in a game that Buehrle starts and we only get 3 freaking hits against Cy Hochevar. :o: Totally embarrassing.

It's obvious that this team (especially the offense) is just in free fall right now. They are now reminding me of the 2007 team. But, at least in 2007, I understood that we had a bunch of guys in our lineup with no talent!

I just hope the Sox can hit the reset button and get back on track in 2010. I would like to think that KW and Ozzie are going to take a long hard look at what has gone so terribly wrong this year.

In 2010, I do not want to hear the same old crap from them on how they are "disappointed" in the team and "changes will be made" and how "we need to get back to better fundamentals." :rolleyes: Hey Kenny and Ozzie, that tired response got old three years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!

BadBobbyJenks
09-18-2009, 11:51 PM
Didnt see a minute of this game, but did Luke Hochevar really throw a three hitter?:rolling:

This team is hilarious.

Danielgosox38
09-18-2009, 11:52 PM
Two words.... Team sucks.

Hitmen77
09-19-2009, 12:01 AM
Flowers DHing tomorrow.

http://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/4095987028

Good. May as well get the kid some at bats. This team has given up.

WhiteSoxOnly
09-19-2009, 12:04 AM
Gutless effort. They've got very little pride apparently. You can bet Kenny is taking this all in and seething.

Two more weeks than it's over and done.

Lip

Can you hit the fast forward button on this Lip ?

soxlady8
09-19-2009, 12:17 AM
I was in attendance for this evening :(

I had a really tough work week and I thought going to the Sox game would help ease some tension !!! I scored a really great ticket RIGHT behind the Sox duggout ---

BLAHHHHH BLAHHHH BLAHHHHH

I have given up on the playoffs like 2 weeks ago.
I did say to myself -- please Sox , finish strong !!!

that hope is fading too ---

on an interesting note , Vince Vaughn was sitting about 10 seats away from me to my left . I thought he was one of the biggest Cub fans in the world though ???

Going to game tomorrow to watch Peavy , hope that goes better !!

WhiteSox1989
09-19-2009, 12:26 AM
Glad I wasn't able to catch this one. Not good. Sox need a miracle now.

Still looked forward to going to the game tomorrow-get to see Peavy and Flowers (who hopefully gets a hit).

ChiSoxGirl
09-19-2009, 12:35 AM
Didnt see a minute of this game, but did Luke Hochevar really throw a three hitter?:rolling:

This team is hilarious.

Yes, he did. And not just any three-hitter... a COMPLETE GAME SHUTOUT three-hitter! :angry:

oeo
09-19-2009, 12:37 AM
Flowers DHing tomorrow.

http://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/4095987028

He should start at DH the rest of the year.

The leadership is pretty ****ing amazing on this team...not. This team still had a chance, the Tigers are choking away a pretty hefty lead, and yet we gave in. Where are you Captain Konerko? Moping?

JB98
09-19-2009, 12:53 AM
He should start at DH the rest of the year.

The leadership is pretty ****ing amazing on this team...not. This team still had a chance, the Tigers are choking away a pretty hefty lead, and yet we gave in. Where are you Captain Konerko? Moping?

Why do people keep throwing stones at Konerko? He's hitting .285 with 26 HRs. He's one of about three veterans who haven't completely pissed themselves (AJ and Pods are the other two) this year.

There are plenty of good targets for blame on the roster. Dye, Rios, Quentin, Linebrink, Jenks, even Buehrle hasn't been good lately. Yet you target Konerko? :scratch:

oeo
09-19-2009, 12:57 AM
Why do people keep throwing stones at Konerko? He's hitting .285 with 26 HRs. He's one of about three veterans who haven't completely pissed themselves (AJ and Pods are the other two) this year.

There are plenty of good targets for blame on the roster. Dye, Rios, Quentin, Linebrink, Jenks, even Buehrle hasn't been good lately. Yet you target Konerko? :scratch:

I'm not complaining about his on field play. He's supposed to the captain, i.e. the leader of the clubhouse. Get your team believing, motivate them. I hate the lead by example bull. You need someone that can flip some tables when it needs to be done. To call guys out when things need to be said. This team has had a defeatist attitude ever since the 'Road Trip from Hell'. There was still PLENTY of time to get things back together after that road trip; Detroit is not a good team. It's up to the leaders to keep the team in check and make sure they don't stoop to this level.

But Konerko isn't the only supposed leader that has given in. Buehrle has been in defeatist mode for a month. Dye can't swing the bat, the best he could do is step up and be the leader he's supposed to be.

JB98
09-19-2009, 01:02 AM
I'm not complaining about his on field play. He's supposed to the captain, i.e. the leader of the clubhouse. Get your team believing, motivate them. I hate the lead by example bull. You need someone that can flip some tables when it needs to be done. To call guys out when things need to be said. This team has had a defeatist attitude ever since the 'Road Trip from Hell'.

But Konerko isn't the only supposed leader. Buehrle has been in defeatist mode. Dye can't swing the bat, the best he could do is step up and be the leader he's supposed to be.

How long has Paul Konerko been our first baseman? 10 years? You should know by now he's not the type of person to flip over tables. He's just not. That's not who he is. He's not going to do that. I'm sorry.

Paul never asked for the captain's label. It was foisted upon him. Konerko deserved criticism the first half of last season, because he was awful. But not this year. If everyone was batting .285 with 80-some RBIs while "moping around," we'd be far better off.

oeo
09-19-2009, 01:05 AM
How long has Paul Konerko been our first baseman? 10 years? You should know by now he's not the type of person to flip over tables. He's just not. That's not who he is. He's not going to do that. I'm sorry.

Paul never asked for the captain's label. It was foisted upon him. Konerko deserved criticism the first half of last season, because he was awful. But not this year. If everyone was batting .285 with 80-some RBIs while "moping around," we'd be far better off.

Fine, take away the captain label. He's still supposed to be a leader. Don't want to flip tables? Have a team meeting. Motivate, lead...you're the veteran presence.

And again, I'm not complaining about his on field play. I'm complaining about the lack of leadership. And not just by him, but in the entire clubhouse. The only leader in that clubhouse is Ozzie Guillen.

BadBobbyJenks
09-19-2009, 01:08 AM
Fine, take away the captain label. He's still supposed to be a leader. Don't want to flip tables? Have a team meeting. Motivate, lead...you're the veteran presence.

And again, I'm not complaining about his on field play. I'm complaining about the lack of leadership. And not just by him, but in the entire clubhouse. The only leader in that clubhouse is Ozzie Guillen.


Have any evidence he is not a leader?

JB98
09-19-2009, 01:20 AM
Fine, take away the captain label. He's still supposed to be a leader. Don't want to flip tables? Have a team meeting. Motivate, lead...you're the veteran presence.

And again, I'm not complaining about his on field play. I'm complaining about the lack of leadership. And not just by him, but in the entire clubhouse. The only leader in that clubhouse is Ozzie Guillen.

There are multiple types of leadership out there. Ozzie and Konerko are both leaders. They go about things in a different way. A team needs both vocal leaders and guys who lead by example. Maybe you are correct that the club could use another vocal leader or two. But it's silly to think Konerko is that guy. He's been here a long time. We know his personality. We know who he is.

Honestly, oeo, you're playing right into the stereotype that people have about Chicago fans -- this belief that everyone needs to be a screamer and a yeller. Everyone needs to be just like Ozzie or Ditka and throw a fit all the time, and if they don't, they're "moping" or they "don't care."

I definitely think there are some guys on the roster who are indifferent and/or are displaying a poor attitude. Ozzie parked those guys on the bench tonight, and rightfully so.

oeo
09-19-2009, 01:26 AM
Have any evidence he is not a leader?

It depends on what kind of leader you're talking about. When things are going well, I think his 'lead by example' attitude works well, of course. You model your work ethic and play around a guy like Konerko.

However, when things are not going well, you need someone to get in your face when you ask for it. You need someone who's going to keep things positive and keep the clubhouse relaxed, steer them away from pressing, especially when it's way too early to do so.

Lip Man 1
09-19-2009, 01:30 AM
Bad Bobby:

Will this work?

"The intent and the effort is no different than the playoff teams we had. I believe that. It's just sometimes baseball doesn't go your way." -- Paul Konerko to the Tribune.

With due respect to Paul he and I are obviously seeing different things on the field and to back up that contention, here's his manager to the Tribune:

"We have six kids up, and the veteran guys are not teaching them right. You see [Gordon] Beckham and [Chris] Getz fighting, and you turn around and see the veteran with his head between his legs."

"All of the money we spent is to win. If they can't play in this city, [general manager] Kenny Williams loves to make trades. He will trade you to make sure when we watch a game, we at least have fun."

Sure sounds like things are at a fracture point between the core group of veterans of which Paul is one and Ozzie.

Lip

oeo
09-19-2009, 01:32 AM
There are multiple types of leadership out there. Ozzie and Konerko are both leaders. They go about things in a different way. A team needs both vocal leaders and guys who lead by example. Maybe you are correct that the club could use another vocal leader or two. But it's silly to think Konerko is that guy. He's been here a long time. We know his personality. We know who he is.

I agree that there are two types of leaders. However, as I mentioned in my other post, one of them doesn't work when things are going badly. When things are going well, you don't need an Ozzie. However, it's when things are bad when a leader is most needed. I don't think the 'lead by example' stuff works when you're playing poorly. You need someone to rally the troops, not keep doing your day-to-day routine and hope for the best.

Honestly, oeo, you're playing right into the stereotype that people have about Chicago fans -- this belief that everyone needs to be a screamer and a yeller. Everyone needs to be just like Ozzie or Ditka and throw a fit all the time, and if they don't, they're "moping" or they "don't care."

Don't misquote me. I never said he didn't care. If he didn't care, he wouldn't be one of the few that are actually contributing to the team. It's the, 'Oh, whaddya going to do. This game is frustrating, you just got to keep playing and hope for the best' attitude that I don't like. I want someone who isn't going to hope for the best, but demand it.

JB98
09-19-2009, 01:34 AM
Bad Bobby:

Will this work?

"The intent and the effort is no different than the playoff teams we had. I believe that. It's just sometimes baseball doesn't go your way." -- Paul Konerko to the Tribune.

With due respect to Paul he and I are obviously seeing different things on the field and to back up that contention, here's his manager to the Tribune:

"We have six kids up, and the veteran guys are not teaching them right. You see [Gordon] Beckham and [Chris] Getz fighting, and you turn around and see the veteran with his head between his legs."

"All of the money we spent is to win. If they can't play in this city, [general manager] Kenny Williams loves to make trades. He will trade you to make sure when we watch a game, we at least have fun."

Sure sounds like things are at a fracture point between the core group of veterans of which Paul is one and Ozzie.

Lip

Konerko is still in the lineup. Dye, Rios and Quentin are the ones sitting on the bench. By his actions tonight, Ozzie told us which players he is unhappy with.

JB98
09-19-2009, 01:36 AM
I agree that there are two types of leaders. However, as I mentioned in my other post, one of them doesn't work when things are going badly. When things are going well, you don't need an Ozzie. However, it's when things are bad when a leader is most needed. I don't think the 'lead by example' stuff works when you're playing poorly. You need someone to rally the troops, not keep doing your day-to-day routine and hope for the best.

Konerko's not that guy. Sorry.

oeo
09-19-2009, 01:39 AM
Konerko's not that guy. Sorry.

I know he's not, and it pisses me off. Even more so that we don't have anyone else in the clubhouse that will be that type of leader.

My major gripe isn't just Konerko's leadership, it's the lack of leadership from the entire veteran core. Konerko is the head honcho of that group, however.

Lip Man 1
09-19-2009, 01:43 AM
JB:

I'm not trying to say anything bad about Paul. Like Buehrle, Dye, Thome they are class individuals who are a credit to the game.

I agree with OEO on this one, leading by example is fine but sometimes you need a different voice or two and as for me personally I WANT a guy or two who will throw all the food on the floor, get in a rookie's face if they are consistently screwing up or getting in a veterans face if they are letting things like having another outfielder signed cause them to basically pout or lose their concentration.

It has to be taken in smaller doses or it loses its impact but right now the Sox have NO ONE repeat NOBODY on this team that will show any fire or passion in the way I described.

Again, you don't have to believe me, but believe this, I was told by a high ranking member of the Sox front office in late July the single biggest issue with this team is "no killer instinct" That's a direct quote. Take it for whatever that's worth to you.

Killer instinct is manefested in different ways, one of them is leadership and refusing to look like garbage CONSISTENTLY against the refuse and garbage of the American League. This particular issue should have been resolved earlier in the season, instead another gutless, flat, lifeless effort against an absolute garbage team.

And there's nobody in the clubhouse who has even raised their voice once to try to put an end to it.

Lip

JB98
09-19-2009, 01:44 AM
I know he's not, and it pisses me off. Even more so that we don't have anyone else in the clubhouse that will be that type of leader.

My major gripe isn't just Konerko's leadership, it's the lack of leadership from the entire veteran core. Konerko is the head honcho of that group, however.

There aren't any vocal leaders in the veteran group; this is true. Gordon Beckham is eventually going to be your guy. That day hasn't arrived yet because he's a rookie. I don't think Gordon is ever going to flip over tables, but he will be the guy who says the right thing at the right time.

In any case, the veteran core is being broken apart. You won't have to worry about them for too much longer. Thome and Contreras are already gone. Dye and Dotel are going to follow them out the door. Konerko and Buehrle are the only two vets that I'm certain are going to stay. I imagine Pierzynski stays as well, but it's not a lock.

Eventually, it's going to be Beckham's clubhouse. Probably sooner rather than later.

JB98
09-19-2009, 01:50 AM
JB:

I'm not trying to say anything bad about Paul. Like Buehrle, Dye, Thome they are class individuals who are a credit to the game.

I agree with OEO on this one, leading by example is fine but sometimes you need a different voice or two and as for me personally I WANT a guy or two who will throw all the food on the floor, get in a rookie's face if they are consistently screwing up or getting in a veterans face if they are letting things like having another outfielder signed cause them to basically pout or lose their concentration.

It has to be taken in smaller doses or it loses its impact but right now the Sox have NO ONE repeat NOBODY on this team that will show any fire or passion in the way I described.

Again, you don't have to believe me, but believe this, I was told by a high ranking member of the Sox front office in late July the single biggest issue with this team is "no killer instinct" That's a direct quote. Take it for whatever that's worth to you.

Killer instinct is manefested in different ways, one of them is leadership and refusing to look like garbage CONSISTENTLY against the refuse and garbage of the American League. This particular issue should have been resolved earlier in the season, instead another gutless, flat, lifeless effort against an absolute garbage team.

Lip

I don't necessarily take issue with any of that. It just doesn't make sense to point the finger at Konerko for this problem. We shouldn't be surprised that he's not throwing food all over the floor or getting in people's faces. He's never done that in all the years he's played for the Sox, and he's not going to start doing that now.

If you want more "fire and passion," put that on the GM. Maybe he needs to change the mix in the clubhouse. But remember, that's a tricky proposition. The Cubs supposedly flamed out in the playoffs last year because there were "too many nice guys" and there "wasn't enough edge." They added Milton Bradley, and the whole thing exploded on them.

Like I said, Gordon is going to be your guy eventually. He isn't going to flip tables. But I do think he's going to grow into the leader of this team on the field and in the clubhouse.

StillMissOzzie
09-19-2009, 02:01 AM
Dye didn't even play tonight so he should be blameless. Just as it is irrelevant to tonight's proceedings that Rios has himself had just three RBIs since joining the White Sox more than a month ago.
You've got the cart before the horse. Dye and Rios are not playing tonight entirely because they are NOT blameless. Their lack of hitting has planted their asses on the bench, perhaps to stay.

He didn't play tonight because he played his pathetic self out of the lineup, per Ozzie's tirade last night. Not so indirectly, he's just as much to blame as anyone else.

:nod:

I was in attendance for this evening :(

I had a really tough work week and I thought going to the Sox game would help ease some tension !!! I scored a really great ticket RIGHT behind the Sox duggout ---

BLAHHHHH BLAHHHH BLAHHHHH

I have given up on the playoffs like 2 weeks ago.
I did say to myself -- please Sox , finish strong !!!

that hope is fading too ---

on an interesting note , Vince Vaughn was sitting about 10 seats away from me to my left . I thought he was one of the biggest Cub fans in the world though ???

Going to game tomorrow to watch Peavy , hope that goes better !!

Vince Vaughn slapped me on the shoulder and said "how's it going, buddy?" when I saw him on the concourse. It was the highlight of the night.
And I added another green Halfway to St. Pat's hat to the collection.

Other than than, tonight's game was perhaps the most uninspired baseball I have ever seen. If that's the result of Ozzie's "Time to fire up" pep talk, then maybe he has lost the team.

SMO
:angry:

SBSoxFan
09-19-2009, 02:09 AM
Well, I turned on the game in the bottom of the seventh. Good timing! I was very surprised to see the Sox only had 2 hits at the time. I turned it off when it got to 6-0, still in the seventh. I was even more surprised to see the final was 11-0.

To me, this was just a perfect storm. With the west coast start time and a 13 inning game, what time did the Sox get in to Chicago, 4 a.m.? Also, Kansas City has been playing well. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox lose at least 2 to KC, and then win 7 of 9 against Detroit and Minnesota to end the season.

Strange year.

soxfan22
09-19-2009, 02:25 AM
Just woke up in London, checked the score, wish I hadn't, what the hell happened?

captainclutch24
09-19-2009, 03:01 AM
Typical Sox killer on the mound tonight. Guy came in with over a 6 era. What did you expect when you saw who would be starting?

CWSpalehoseCWS
09-19-2009, 04:09 AM
Just woke up in London, checked the score, wish I hadn't, what the hell happened?

White Sox baseball happened.

As for the leadership roles, it's obvious that the veterans are giving up. Dye and Rio's struggles show that. Dye will not be back next year, especially if he is one of the guys Guillen's talking about. I hope Rios can turn it around for next season, as it's going to be hard to put up with this for the next few years.

LITTLE NELL
09-19-2009, 04:23 AM
11-0 loss to the Royals
3 lousy hits
Our ace fails to win again

Low point of the season
Shut everyody down.

WSox597
09-19-2009, 05:48 AM
We had it one for a bit. When Oliva hit the HR, you could see Buerhle put his head down. It didn't look good even at 3-0.

It wasn't long after that my wife changed the channel. I had already left the room for the computer room.

Now, my wife is a Sox fanatic, she almost never misses a game even when they're on the West Coast. She was disgusted and changed the channel.

Kind of a sign of the times.

Oh well, the Blackhawks will be starting soon. It'll be good to watch a team that actually gives a **** about winning.

wassagstdu
09-19-2009, 07:33 AM
I just can't buy the idea that the Sox don't care or are going through the motions. Maybe for half a blowout game in the rain after midnight, but not for half a season. Maybe it's plausible for a guy like Rios, but only if you assume he has no personal pride. Dye's poor performance has cost him millions. Quentin has to know he has put his career in jeopardy. Take a look at Linebrink and tell me he is going through the motions. Those are the prime suspects.

Lackadaisical leadership from Konerko? Give me a break. Ozzie has made it clear that he does not want competing leadership from within the team, and while you can disagree with that philosophy, you cannot blame it for the struggles of Dye, Quentin, or Rios.

Last night everyone except Pods, Wise, and Getz was hitless, and Dye, Rios, and Quentin were not in the lineup. Has everyone else quit?

Something is going on, but it is not lack of motivation, and it is not necessarily the same thing for each underperforming player or for each lousy game.

PatK
09-19-2009, 08:08 AM
It wasn't long after that my wife changed the channel. I had already left the room for the computer room.


I wish I could have changed the channel.

Unfortunately, I was at the game.

soxinem1
09-19-2009, 08:11 AM
I think blaming the season on the lack of veteran leadership is just plain silly. Plus, I don't think Ozzie would cope well having a real firebrand in the clubhouse. He wants to be that guy.

There are a lot of reasons that this team has not performed, such as:

Having a new 3B, SS, and 2B to start the year will do it, and if Josh Fields was the one with the most MLB experience defensively at his position, then you should have expected this defense to be below- average. Getz and Ramirez never jelled together, and having Beckham out of position and learning on the job sure has not helped.

In the OF, we were blessed with an OF lacking in range, arms, and production. And remember, they went with Wise as the starting CF and lead-off man out of ST. If it wasn't for Pods and Dye's first half, this OF would have gotten an F for the season both offensively and defensively.

Losing your best hitter from nearly day one meant a lot, and there is really nothing more you can say when he obviously never hit his stride.

Expecting Colon and Contreras to even win 20 games between them was a pipe dream. Colon pulled the same disappearing **** with BOS last year, and has not had a fastball in over three seasons. Contreras has been nothing but a thrower since mid-2006. The only good thing about these two is they are both gone.

In the pen, KW and Ozzie just took a giant **** on Dotel and felt Pena would step in as his replacement. Dotel might have struggled for a small stretch, but just from his mound demeanor he has more balls and stuff than Pena ever will. No way should Pena ever have pitched ahead of Dotel.

The only reasons this team is even close to .500 is Danks, Floyd, Buehrle (pre-perfecto), Jenks (think he might be more effective if he had a save opportunity more than once every nine days?), and Thornton among the pitchers, AJ, Beckham, Konerko, Pods, and Dye (pre-ASB). These guys showed up ready every day.

They couldn't win at The Cell the first two months of the year, played better against contenders than scrubs, and just never could catch lightning in a bottle.

Ozzie and KW KNEW they did not have a strong defensive club, fourth and fifth starters, and OF depth when the season started. Why is this season such a suprise?

So in other words, the 2009 White Sox are lucky to even be where they are at.

chisox12
09-19-2009, 08:28 AM
Thank God I was out and wasn't able to watch this game. Sounds awful. This season has been so ****ing frustrating.

soxyess
09-19-2009, 08:31 AM
Why is PK getting a pass here? How many times has he come up to bat with men on base only to pop out with that long home run swing. He is just as responsible as all the other players that have been lousy this year. PK at this stage in his career is a dangerous guy to have on your team. When I say dangerous I mean dangerous to the Sox not the opposition. You have seen him go into prolonged slumps in the past, and the fact he like the home run swing makes him prone to a .235 average in the near future. This type of player must be eradicated from this team. The 2010 team will be built on starting pitching, and hopefully a revamped bullpen. In order to win consistantly, the Sox need to surround the pitching with quality defense, good baserunning, and timely situational hitting. Without those elements you will get plenty of games that mirror Thursday's game. Blown late leads.

southside rocks
09-19-2009, 08:33 AM
I can't find my optimism anywhere. I thought I left it on the table in the back porch, under the WS05 pics on the wall, but it's gone.

It's truly dismal to get no joy at all from watching the White Sox play.

voodoochile
09-19-2009, 08:43 AM
Why is PK getting a pass here? How many times has he come up to bat with men on base only to pop out with that long home run swing. He is just as responsible as all the other players that have been lousy this year. PK at this stage in his career is a dangerous guy to have on your team. When I say dangerous I mean dangerous to the Sox not the opposition. You have seen him go into prolonged slumps in the past, and the fact he like the home run swing makes him prone to a .235 average in the near future. This type of player must be eradicated from this team. The 2010 team will be built on starting pitching, and hopefully a revamped bullpen. In order to win consistantly, the Sox need to surround the pitching with quality defense, good baserunning, and timely situational hitting. Without those elements you will get plenty of games that mirror Thursday's game. Blown late leads.

LOL...

Why is (insert veteran's name here) getting a pass. They suck.

Next time use my template...

The Dude
09-19-2009, 09:32 AM
Wow, you really have to feel for those people who paid money to see this suckfest tonight. :angry:

Good thing I burned my tickets for the game. I had better things to do

The Dude
09-19-2009, 09:32 AM
Olivo had more ribi's tonight than Dye has had in the last 34 games.

I believe it. Dye should go away

MarkZ35
09-19-2009, 09:50 AM
I believe it. Dye should go away
Far Far Away and Fast

captain54
09-19-2009, 10:38 AM
So in other words, the 2009 White Sox are lucky to even be where they are at.

I'd have to safely say that Reinsdorf and Co. don't feel very lucky in the least, having to fork out $100 mill this year to see these results.

Despite all the setbacks you've mentioned (mainly due to KW recklessly going into 09' with a questionable roster), all they would have had to do is hover a few games above .500 and they would still be in the hunt, even at this late stage of the season. That was totally doable considering they play a majority of their games against teams with a combined 281-320 record.

This is about more than a few key players going into individual slumps throughout the season. This is a catastrophic failure across the board on practically all levels (the only saving grace possibly being the starting pitching)

Lip Man 1
09-19-2009, 11:57 AM
What's the over/under on Dusty Hughes holding the Sox to two runs or less in his first major league start with only eight innings of work in the pro's?

Inquiring minds want to know! LOL

Lip

Hitmen77
09-19-2009, 12:15 PM
11-0 loss to the Royals
3 lousy hits
Our ace fails to win again

Low point of the season
Shut everyody down.

What's the over/under on Dusty Hughes holding the Sox to two runs or less in his first major league start with only eight innings of work in the pro's?

Inquiring minds want to know! LOL

Lip

18 straight innings without a run! :angry: No, Lip, this wouldn't surprise me at all.

The Sox abysmal offense this September is very disturbing since there is a good probability that 8 of the 9 hitters in our starting lineup will be back next year.

I'm still positive about 2010. But seeing as we might very well replace only one person in our starting lineup for next year (Dye), it really makes me wonder whether there will be that much of an improvement over the unacceptable results of this year.

Brian26
09-19-2009, 01:18 PM
Why is PK getting a pass here? How many times has he come up to bat with men on base only to pop out with that long home run swing. He is just as responsible as all the other players that have been lousy this year. PK at this stage in his career is a dangerous guy to have on your team. When I say dangerous I mean dangerous to the Sox not the opposition. You have seen him go into prolonged slumps in the past, and the fact he like the home run swing makes him prone to a .235 average in the near future. This type of player must be eradicated from this team. The 2010 team will be built on starting pitching, and hopefully a revamped bullpen. In order to win consistantly, the Sox need to surround the pitching with quality defense, good baserunning, and timely situational hitting. Without those elements you will get plenty of games that mirror Thursday's game. Blown late leads.

.283, 26 HR, 83 RBI, consistenly scoops garbage throws out of the dirt on defense and is only signed for one more season at an affordable $12 million.

Of all the problems with this team, including diminished talent and apparent lack of motivation, Konerko should be near the bottom of the list of people to whine about.

Brian26
09-19-2009, 01:22 PM
I'm not complaining about his on field play. He's supposed to the captain, i.e. the leader of the clubhouse. Get your team believing, motivate them. I hate the lead by example bull. You need someone that can flip some tables when it needs to be done.

It is not Paul Konerko's job to motivate Jermaine Dye. That job is, in order, Dye's and then maybe Guillen's. If Dye can't get motivated to play ball after being in this league since 1996 and having millions of dollars in contract money at stake, then nobody's going to motivate him. Maybe it's a diminished skills situation right now. To complain that Konerko isn't flipping over buffet tables to motivate Dye, or anyone else, is absurd.

Konerko05
09-19-2009, 01:47 PM
It is not Paul Konerko's job to motivate Jermaine Dye. That job is, in order, Dye's and then maybe Guillen's. If Dye can't get motivated to play ball after being in this league since 1996 and having millions of dollars in contract money at stake, then nobody's going to motivate him. Maybe it's a diminished skills situation right now. To complain that Konerko isn't flipping over buffet tables to motivate Dye, or anyone else, is absurd.

Yeah, I'm just not seeing a situation where Konerko flips over a table and results in Dye breaking out of a massive slump and hitting two homeruns.

If anything, it would probably result in a fight. I doubt Dye, going through the worst slump of his career, is going to react well to someone screaming in his face.

JB98
09-19-2009, 02:06 PM
.283, 26 HR, 83 RBI, consistenly scoops garbage throws out of the dirt on defense and is only signed for one more season at an affordable $12 million.

Of all the problems with this team, including diminished talent and apparent lack of motivation, Konerko should be near the bottom of the list of people to whine about.

No question about it. He's been our best veteran player this year. He has solid offensive numbers, and he still plays his position well.

I get the impression that some Sox fans want all "slow-footed sluggers" gone at all costs. Thome is already gone and Dye is on his way out the door. All these people who have hated the Dye-Thome-Konerko middle of the lineup are getting two-thirds of their wish, but they still cry because Konerko is going to stay until his contract is up. Somehow, I doubt Konerko's presence on the roster is going to poison the 2010 Sox. Among those three sluggers, Paul was the best and most consistent of the three this year. And he still plays good defense. That's an underrated point.

We don't have anyone in the system poised to take Konerko's spot at 1B, so it doesn't make sense to trade him. We have far greater problems on this club than 1B. I would be upset if a new 1B were KW's top priority this offseason, when we so obviously have issues in the outfield and in the bullpen.

oeo
09-19-2009, 02:53 PM
It is not Paul Konerko's job to motivate Jermaine Dye. That job is, in order, Dye's and then maybe Guillen's. If Dye can't get motivated to play ball after being in this league since 1996 and having millions of dollars in contract money at stake, then nobody's going to motivate him. Maybe it's a diminished skills situation right now. To complain that Konerko isn't flipping over buffet tables to motivate Dye, or anyone else, is absurd.

First of all, I don't think motivation is a problem with Dye. I think he's just out of gas. That doesn't mean he has to put his head between his legs like Ozzie said. He's supposed to be a leader, too.

Secondly, it is the job of the veteran leaders to keep the team headed in the right direction. It's become obvious that Ozzie can only do so much. He's tried to keep things positive and the players are not responding. Either Paulie, Dye, Buehrle, etc. need to reiterate what Ozzie has been saying for the last month, or do their own thing. From the play we've seen since that road trip, and the comments in the media, it doesn't appear they're doing either. They're just sitting back and hoping for the best. Not a good way to get out of playing ****ty baseball.

FielderJones
09-19-2009, 03:15 PM
Something is going on, but it is not lack of motivation, and it is not necessarily the same thing for each underperforming player or for each lousy game.

Last night, very simple. Hochevar was throwing his curve ball for strikes. That's it. Sweeping curves, hammer curves, you name it, he had complete control. I know it's hard to give credit to a guy with a 6+ ERA, but sometimes a pitcher is just on. Anyone who puts this purely on the Sox hitters wasn't watching the game. The guy just didn't make many (if any) mistakes with his location.

AnkleSox
09-19-2009, 03:24 PM
Haha, I didn't even think about this game last night. I just checked to see what the result was and all I can do is laugh. 11-0 loss to the ****ing royals. That's pathetic, but pretty much what I could come to expect of this team since mid-June.

slavko
09-19-2009, 04:33 PM
I was in attendance for this evening :(

I had a really tough work week and I thought going to the Sox game would help ease some tension !!! I scored a really great ticket RIGHT behind the Sox duggout ---

BLAHHHHH BLAHHHH BLAHHHHH

I have given up on the playoffs like 2 weeks ago.
I did say to myself -- please Sox , finish strong !!!

that hope is fading too ---

on an interesting note , Vince Vaughn was sitting about 10 seats away from me to my left . I thought he was one of the biggest Cub fans in the world though ???

Going to game tomorrow to watch Peavy , hope that goes better !!

Vince Vaughn has said in the past he is a fan of both teams and, by gosh, he seems to be telling the truth. That is possible, you know.

Nellie_Fox
09-20-2009, 12:52 AM
Vince Vaughn has said in the past he is a fan of both teams and, by gosh, he seems to be telling the truth. That is possible, you know.Not where I grew up.

BadBobbyJenks
09-20-2009, 02:13 PM
First of all, I don't think motivation is a problem with Dye. I think he's just out of gas. That doesn't mean he has to put his head between his legs like Ozzie said. He's supposed to be a leader, too.

Secondly, it is the job of the veteran leaders to keep the team headed in the right direction. It's become obvious that Ozzie can only do so much. He's tried to keep things positive and the players are not responding. Either Paulie, Dye, Buehrle, etc. need to reiterate what Ozzie has been saying for the last month, or do their own thing. From the play we've seen since that road trip, and the comments in the media, it doesn't appear they're doing either. They're just sitting back and hoping for the best. Not a good way to get out of playing ****ty baseball.

So all teams that dont head in the right direction dont have any leaders? That is the reason?

WhiteSoxOnly
09-20-2009, 06:20 PM
Not where I grew up.

Plus one...this would have gotten him thumped.

DumpJerry
09-20-2009, 06:30 PM
Vince Vaughn has said in the past he is a fan of both teams and, by gosh, he seems to be telling the truth. That is possible, you know.
Only in institutions where people receive intensive psychiatric treatments.

GoGoCrede
09-20-2009, 06:33 PM
Vince Vaughn has said in the past he is a fan of both teams and, by gosh, he seems to be telling the truth. That is possible, you know.

I don't know. The true test is asking him who he'd root for in the World Series if the Sox and Cubs met. Who do you honestly think he'd choose? There's your answer.

Although, damn. He just went to a Hawks, Cubs, Sox, and Bears game all in one week. Where can I sign up for this gig? :D: