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View Full Version : Would you still make the carter for quentin trade?


Lillian
09-18-2009, 03:30 PM
I posted this last year, and I was pretty roundly criticized for even questioning whether or not the Quentin trade could ever work out for both sides. I'm not saying, I told you so because Carter still hasn't played in the Big Leagues. However, let me ask you all this; "Would you still make the trade today?

I love Carlos. However, everyone seems so sure that this trade is the best, most lopsided trade the Sox have ever made. In fact, I heard someone say that last night on Chicago Tribune Live. Such assessments may be just a little premature.
The guy the Sox traded to Arizona for Quentin is Chris Carter. He was later sent to Oakland for Danny Haren. Carter was a very highly regarded prospect, and is having a very good year at age 21. He's leading the advanced A California League in both homers (37) and RBI's (100). He does have a ton of strikeouts, and is only hitting .259, but he also walks a lot. For a guy his age, he seems to be developing very nicely.
It may turn out to be a deal that benefits both trading partners, in this case, all three trading partners, in the long run.
That said, of course I'm thrilled with TCQ, and Carter probably won't make an impact at the Major League level for at least a couple more years.
I just thought that it might be interesting to view the trade a little more objectively.

munchman33
09-18-2009, 03:33 PM
As much as I don't like to admit this, there's a decent chance that trade ends up negative. It isn't yet, but Carlos has a condition that will only get worse and harder to deal with as he ages, while Carter has become arguably the best positional prospect in the game.

dickallen15
09-18-2009, 03:36 PM
I'll take Quentin.

Lillian
09-18-2009, 03:41 PM
You know, while we're second guessing, it's interesting to note that Swisher would be leading the Sox in just about every offensive catagory, except batting average, with the numbers he has put this year.
Don't misunderstand me, I wanted him gone, but mainly because I just don't like his 'style'. However, unless Marquez can recover and make a contribution, this looks like a really bad trade. I'm not sorry that the Sox traded him, but it does seem a shame that we couldn't have gotten more back in return.

dickallen15
09-18-2009, 03:43 PM
You know, while we're second guessing, it's interesting to note that Swisher would be leading the Sox in just about every offensive catagory with the numbers he has put this year.
Don't misunderstand me, I wanted him gone, but mainly because I just don't like his 'style'. However, unless Marquez can recover and make a contribution, this looks like a really bad trade. I'm not sorry that the Sox traded him, but it does seem a shame that we couldn't have gotten more back in return.

Hopefully Nunez does something. I think Marquez is not much of a prospect, may be hurt and may be selling insurance shortly. As far as Swisher, coming off a .219 year with a lot of money owed, its a miracle the Sox got anything for him and didn't have to pick up any of the contract in the currency economic climate. Its entirely possible Swisher falls apart again.

DSpivack
09-18-2009, 03:48 PM
As much as I don't like to admit this, there's a decent chance that trade ends up negative. It isn't yet, but Carlos has a condition that will only get worse and harder to deal with as he ages, while Carter has become arguably the best positional prospect in the game.

A guy hitting .259 in A-ball?

spawn
09-18-2009, 03:51 PM
As much as I don't like to admit this, there's a decent chance that trade ends up negative. It isn't yet, but Carlos has a condition that will only get worse and harder to deal with as he ages, while Carter has become arguably the best positional prospect in the game.

A guy hitting .259 in A-ball?

I'd say something here, but it's just not worth it. Sometimes munchman makes it way too easy.

Lillian
09-18-2009, 03:58 PM
A guy hitting .259 in A-ball?

Excuse me, but I think that you're confusing Chris Carter with someone else, unless you're referring to last year's average, or the few at bats at AAA since his promotion. He is still very young, and has put up some very impressive numbers, including a combined batting average of .329 this year between AA and AAA. His power numbers have been terrific.

KenBerryGrab
09-18-2009, 04:01 PM
There are two Chris Carters who are prospects: One with the A's (who was ours, was traded to AZ for Quentin and went to Oakland when the Snakes made the Dan Haren trade) and one with the Red Sox.

Konerko05
09-18-2009, 04:05 PM
A guy hitting .259 in A-ball?

Chris Carter did hit .259 in high A-ball.

Then he hit .337 with 24 homeruns, 41 doubles and 82 walks in AA. That equates to a 1.011 OPS.

As of now, I'd still take Carlos Quentin as he showed he can basically produce similar numbers at the ML level. Quentin just needs to make a massive rebound next season.

spawn
09-18-2009, 04:09 PM
As of now, I'd still take Carlos Quentin as he showed he can basically produce similar numbers at the ML level. Quentin just needs to make a massive rebound next season.
Quentin just needs to stay healthy next season. As for who I would take...give me the guy that proved he can produce in the Majors when healthy.

voodoochile
09-18-2009, 04:15 PM
Excuse me, Joe Borchard? Josh Fields?

Until a guy actually hits in the majors, counting on him for anything is simply silly.

Quentin is the obvious answer.

Now would KW make the trade today with Quentin's foot and Carter's numbers? Maybe not, but there's no WAY you don't make the trade when he did.

Munch is also wrong there are plenty of players who deal with FP on a regular basis and have long productive careers. It's not the debilitating thing it was 15 years ago.

Crestani
09-18-2009, 04:22 PM
Quentin just needs to stay healthy next season. As for who I would take...give me the guy that proved he can produce in the Majors when healthy.


Absolutely right on. This should not even be debated until carter gets to the Majors and produces some numbers comparable to Carlos has...!!!

Lillian
09-18-2009, 04:24 PM
Excuse me, Joe Borchard? Josh Fields?

Until a guy actually hits in the majors, counting on him for anything is simply silly.

Quentin is the obvious answer.

Now would KW make the trade today with Quentin's foot and Carter's numbers? Maybe not, but there's no WAY you don't make the trade when he did.

Munch is also wrong there are plenty of players who deal with FP on a regular basis and have long productive careers. It's not the debilitating thing it was 15 years ago.

Neither Joe Borchard nor Josh Fields ever put up the kinds of numbers that Carter has, and Carter is still only 22. Those guys didn't even enter the Minors until that age. That just isn't a fair comparison.

Lillian
09-18-2009, 04:31 PM
Excuse me, Joe Borchard? Josh Fields?

Until a guy actually hits in the majors, counting on him for anything is simply silly.

Quentin is the obvious answer.

Now would KW make the trade today with Quentin's foot and Carter's numbers? Maybe not, but there's no WAY you don't make the trade when he did.

Munch is also wrong there are plenty of players who deal with FP on a regular basis and have long productive careers. It's not the debilitating thing it was 15 years ago.

I agree with you, and I'm not second guessing Kenny. I'm just reiterating my original point, which is that this trade may yet turn out to be less lopsided than most everyone was asserting at the time.

DumpJerry
09-18-2009, 04:36 PM
Excuse me, Joe Borchard? Josh Fields?

Until a guy actually hits in the majors, counting on him for anything is simply silly.

Quentin is the obvious answer.

Now would KW make the trade today with Quentin's foot and Carter's numbers? Maybe not, but there's no WAY you don't make the trade when he did.

Munch is also wrong there are plenty of players who deal with FP on a regular basis and have long productive careers. It's not the debilitating thing it was 15 years ago.
Brian Anderson looked like the second coming of Ted Williams.


Then he was promoted above AAA.

TomBradley72
09-18-2009, 04:41 PM
We don't win the division last year without Quentin...hobbled by injuries this year. Alot of guys put up great numbers in the minors...no reason to even begin second guessing until Carter has at least ONE season in the majors equal to TCQ's 2008.

Lillian
09-18-2009, 04:44 PM
We don't win the division last year without Quentin...hobbled by injuries this year. Alot of guys put up great numbers in the minors...no reason to even begin second guessing until Carter has at least ONE season in the majors equal to TCQ's 2008.

Let's just hope that Quentin can stay healthy enough to validate your point, which is well taken.
Carlos could start by relenting in his refusal to wear any 'body armor'. Getting hit 40 plus times a year is not a good way to stay off the DL.

MeteorsSox4367
09-18-2009, 04:49 PM
I'll take TCQ, thanks.

If he didn't get hurt last year, he deservedly would have been the AL MVP. As for this year, I think his injury is greater than we know and he's trying to play through it.

Next year, when TCQ is in the running for AL Comeback Player of the Year, this thread will be proven moot.

dochocin
09-18-2009, 04:52 PM
We don't win the division last year without Quentin...hobbled by injuries this year. Alot of guys put up great numbers in the minors...no reason to even begin second guessing until Carter has at least ONE season in the majors equal to TCQ's 2008.

We did win the division last year without Quentin

MisterB
09-18-2009, 05:11 PM
We did win the division last year without Quentin

Funny, I thought he played 130 games for the Sox last season. :?:

spawn
09-18-2009, 05:11 PM
We did win the division last year without Quentin
We wouldn't have won it if we didn't have him the entire season. And we barely won the division without him those last few weeks of the season.

doublem23
09-18-2009, 05:20 PM
Chris Carter sprouts into the most promising power hitting position player after he joins up with the A's, eh?

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

cws05champ
09-18-2009, 06:15 PM
Chris Carter sprouts into the most promising power hitting position player after he joins up with the A's, eh?

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
I'd say Mike Stanton is the most promising power hitter in the minors...I'm just saying.

thomas35forever
09-18-2009, 06:44 PM
I'm not about to turn Chris Carter into the next player for people to obsess over. I still like the Quentin deal and anyone who thinks otherwise at this point should think about where we would be right now if we didn't have him.

munchman33
09-18-2009, 06:53 PM
Wow. People have issues with reality.

I didn't say I'd redo the damn trade, I said there's a growing chance we may end up losing on that transaction. Between Carlos being hurt and Carter being one and two with Buster Posey in nearly every ranking for minor league position players, it's not as cut and dry as it seemed last year.

Jeez.

SI1020
09-18-2009, 07:02 PM
As much as I don't like to admit this, there's a decent chance that trade ends up negative. It isn't yet, but Carlos has a condition that will only get worse and harder to deal with as he ages, while Carter has become arguably the best positional prospect in the game. I regret to say that I agree with you about TCQ.

russ99
09-18-2009, 07:05 PM
No, but I hope Carlos can put together a few injury-free season to seal the steal. Prospects are prospects. Carter has a good chance to become a solid player, but Carlos has already done that.

But I sure wouldn't still make the Allen - Pena deal...

tacosalbarojas
09-18-2009, 09:21 PM
Yes, I would still make the Carter/Quentin trade. I would not, however, have made or still make the Allen/Pena trade..

Daver
09-18-2009, 09:29 PM
All Chris Carter does is catch touchdowns.

TDog
09-18-2009, 09:41 PM
Quentin hit .378 with an on-base percentage of .467 at AAA this year, so he must be a better prospect than Carter.

soxinem1
09-18-2009, 10:02 PM
I remember nearly 20 years ago when BAL traded for All-Star slugger Glenn Davis from HOU.

The so-called experts claimed the Astros were fleeced.

Well, the Astros got Pete Harnisch, who lead the NL in ERA his first year in Houston, Curt Schilling, and Steve Finley. All of them had solid and sometimes great MLB careers.

Davis was a straight-out bust with the Orioles. So much for the fleecing.

GM's really do not set out to get the best of another team when making a trade, they trade something they feel they can spare for something they feel they need. Thus, they should be mutually beneficial.

Don't you think BOS would LOVE to have Hanley Ramirez at SS today? I'm sure they do. But to get a starting pitcher like Josh Beckett that is what they had to give up. Thus, FLA got something good out of it too.

If Chris Carter becomes a decent, serviceable, or All-Star player, fine. KW wanted to trade for a guy he felt was MLB ready, and ARI wanted a hitter for the future at the time.

And considering the fact Carter has no MLB experience, isn't it a little early to even raise the question?

Craig Grebeck
09-18-2009, 10:57 PM
This is quite possibly the worst thread in the history of the internet.

Has munch ever heard of Jason Heyward? No? Okay.

Carter's good. Quentin's good. Whatever.

doublem23
09-18-2009, 11:26 PM
All Chris Carter does is catch touchdowns.

That would be Cris Carter.

BadBobbyJenks
09-18-2009, 11:55 PM
Is this really a topic for debate, really?

TomBradley72
09-19-2009, 08:07 AM
Wow. People have issues with reality.

I didn't say I'd redo the damn trade, I said there's a growing chance we may end up losing on that transaction. Between Carlos being hurt and Carter being one and two with Buster Posey in nearly every ranking for minor league position players, it's not as cut and dry as it seemed last year.

Jeez.

Way to take a stance. :cool:

DSpivack
09-19-2009, 08:58 AM
Excuse me, but I think that you're confusing Chris Carter with someone else, unless you're referring to last year's average, or the few at bats at AAA since his promotion. He is still very young, and has put up some very impressive numbers, including a combined batting average of .329 this year between AA and AAA. His power numbers have been terrific.

I was just going by the numbers in your own post.

Lillian
09-19-2009, 09:28 AM
I was just going by the numbers in your own post.

I understand. However, remember he was only 21 last season.