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View Full Version : *Official* 9/17 This Sucks Postgame Thread


kevingrt
09-17-2009, 10:39 PM
this sucks.

MarkZ35
09-17-2009, 10:40 PM
I think that may be the official nail in the coffin for this team.

doublem23
09-17-2009, 10:40 PM
Did anyone really expect them to win after Jenks' BS in the 9th?

Viva Medias B's
09-17-2009, 10:40 PM
The only interesting highlight of this one was the M's chasing Ichiro across the field.

WhiteSox5187
09-17-2009, 10:40 PM
Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. We need a new bullpen.

DirtySox
09-17-2009, 10:41 PM
Jenks trade value continues to diminish.

soxinem1
09-17-2009, 10:41 PM
On the Linebrink of Disaster. Wow.

DirtySox
09-17-2009, 10:41 PM
Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. We need a new bullpen.

The bullpen was rather good in extras. Liney and Jenks are the ones having problems.

doublem23
09-17-2009, 10:41 PM
Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. We need a new bullpen.

:scratch:

The bullpen threw up 4 scoreless innings.

We need a damn offense.

Tragg
09-17-2009, 10:42 PM
Where are the young pitchers?

Dick Allen
09-17-2009, 10:42 PM
Jenks needs to shave that **** off his chin. Either that or I'll yank it off. :angry:

Dibbs
09-17-2009, 10:42 PM
Liney is Mr. Automatic. Automatic loss unfortunately. I still get a kick out of people defending him earlier this year while it was obvious he had nothing.

kevingrt
09-17-2009, 10:42 PM
Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. We need a new bullpen.

I can tell you we need a new guy to fill whatever role scott Linebrink has right now. I don't really know what that role is but he sucks.

And Jenks looks really bad right now. It is not his position right now in 2010. It's free game.

I would not mind bringing Pena, Thornton, and Carrasco back at all. I think Pena will do wonders next year after a year of Coop tutelage. Thornton should be the closer. And Carrasco is an invaluable asset in long relief. I wouldn't mind keeping Dotel either but his price tag is going to be much to high.

thomas35forever
09-17-2009, 10:43 PM
Poor showing by Jenks, Linebrink, and the offense. End of story.

soxyess
09-17-2009, 10:43 PM
Jenks will not be on this team in 2010.

Dirty30
09-17-2009, 10:43 PM
Thanks for nothing, Bobby!

whitesox4eva
09-17-2009, 10:43 PM
if linebrink comes back next year i might throwup in my mouth a little....oh who am i kidding ALOT O_O :chunks

Viva Medias B's
09-17-2009, 10:43 PM
Poor showing by Jenks, Linebrink, and the offense. End of story.

Same old story.

kevingrt
09-17-2009, 10:44 PM
:scratch:

The bullpen threw up 4 scoreless innings.

We need a damn offense.

I think the average length of a top half of an inning after the 7th was about 4.5 minutes and 7.2 pitches for each Seattle pitcher.

Scientific fact there.

We need more then a new offense.

DirtySox
09-17-2009, 10:44 PM
Where are the young pitchers?

Hudson is probably starting Monday for Gavin.

I suppose Torres and Nunez could have been used.

WhiteSoxOnly
09-17-2009, 10:44 PM
It's like getting tasered in different spots only it never stops.
Painful and extremely aggravating at the same time.

WhiteSox5187
09-17-2009, 10:44 PM
:scratch:

The bullpen threw up 4 scoreless innings.

We need a damn offense.

Our closer can't close and our setup man sets up losses. There is a BIG problem with this bullpen.

kruzer31
09-17-2009, 10:44 PM
Who really cares.

soxyess
09-17-2009, 10:44 PM
Jenks, Dye, PK Gone in 2010!!

doublem23
09-17-2009, 10:44 PM
if linebrink comes back next year i might throwup in my mouth a little....oh who am i kidding ALOT O_O

Considering he has 2 years left on his deal...

GoGoCrede
09-17-2009, 10:45 PM
Just got out of class to see the end. It sounded more painful than the eyebrow threading I got yesterday. :(: And the threading HURT.

billyvsox
09-17-2009, 10:45 PM
What I dont understand is why guy who continue to suck, keep getting to play (Dye - Rios - Jenks - Linebrink). Nobody on the bench could do any worse.....lierally. Do we ever really bench anybody for poor performance. These is no accountablilty at all. Why should JD or Rios care, they will still be in lineup tommorrow and still get paid. I cant wait until we clean house

soxfan1965
09-17-2009, 10:45 PM
Combo of Parkinson's Law and Murphy's Law - If Sox took a 4 run lead into the 9th, Jenks would give up 4 home runs, if 3 runs, 3 home runs, if 2 runs, 2 home runs. And of course, on a night that Detroit loses.

whitesox4eva
09-17-2009, 10:46 PM
Considering he has 2 years left on his deal...

:whiner:

Tragg
09-17-2009, 10:46 PM
Hudson is probably starting Monday for Gavin.

I suppose Torres and Nunez could have been used.
Okay.
But if there are young pitchers in our pen (and don't we consider Nunez a pitcher with a future?), there is absolutely no reason to pitch Linebrink. It's like pitching Bukvich and Meyers in September 2007 o - pointless dependence on lousy veterans.

doublem23
09-17-2009, 10:47 PM
Our closer can't close and our setup man sets up losses. There is a BIG problem with this bullpen.

And yet, we would have won if we had scored 1 run in the last 9 innings of the game.

I'm not saying our bullpen is in great shape, but the two goats today are Jenks and Linebrink... Not exactly news to the world. Our offense, yet again, is the real problem with this team.

Woofer
09-17-2009, 10:47 PM
Well, at least it's not 2 am. That's the best I can come up with. Jenks is bad. He just ain't right anymore. Same for Linebrink. Same with Dye, and Rios has been a huge disappointment.

soxyess
09-17-2009, 10:47 PM
Start playing the young guys!!

WhiteSox5187
09-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Bobby's given up NINE homeruns this year. Ohhh man, I've always defended him, but...man...he might be done.

DirtySox
09-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Okay.
But if there are young pitchers in our pen, there is absolutely no reason to pitch Linebrink. It's like pitching Bukvich and Meyers in September 2007 - pointless.

I would tend to agree, but I'm not the manager.

soxyess
09-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Rios will be an all-star in 2010. He is hitting the ball hard. It will happen.

WhiteSoxOnly
09-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Considering he has 2 years left on his deal...

Yep,nobody is going to want this stiff at that price.

tstrike2000
09-17-2009, 10:49 PM
No wonder why we're 3 games under .500. Nice effort by Danks, unfortunately Dye, Rios, and the bullpen are garbage.

WhiteSox5187
09-17-2009, 10:49 PM
And yet, we would have won if we had scored 1 run in the last 9 innings of the game.

I'm not saying our bullpen is in great shape, but the two goats today are Jenks and Linebrink... Not exactly news to the world. Our offense, yet again, is the real problem with this team.

I get your point, and I'm not saying the offense is any great shakes either, but we scored enough to win thru the first 8 2/3rds.

doublem23
09-17-2009, 10:50 PM
Rios will be an all-star in 2010. He is hitting the ball hard. It will happen.

PK not back? Rios an All-Star in 2010?

:rolling:

I want what this guy is drinking.

doublem23
09-17-2009, 10:51 PM
I get your point, and I'm not saying the offense is any great shakes either, but we scored enough to win thru the first 8 2/3rds.

Well yeah, but let's lay the blame on who it belongs, Jenks and Linebrink. The bullpen, aside from the two who've struggled all year, looked pretty solid again.

There's only one major problem on this team... Offense, offense, offense.

JB98
09-17-2009, 10:52 PM
Start playing the young guys!!

What young guys? Flowers is the only young guy sitting on the bench.

soxyess
09-17-2009, 10:52 PM
PK not back? Rios an All-Star in 2010?

:rolling:

I want what this guy is drinking.

PK will be moved to free up salary for a move to get Crawford, and Rios will hit .290 .380 .750/ 30hrs 85-90 rbi's

soxyess
09-17-2009, 10:52 PM
What young guys? Flowers is the only young guy sitting on the bench.

Play Flowers!

WhiteSox5187
09-17-2009, 10:53 PM
Well yeah, but let's lay the blame on who it belongs, Jenks and Linebrink. The bullpen, aside from the two who've struggled all year, looked pretty solid again.

There's only one major problem on this team... Offense, offense, offense.

Well, if Jenks keeps pitching like this, next year we are in the market for a new closer and a new setup man which is going to be hard to do.

Martinigirl
09-17-2009, 10:53 PM
Jenks, Dye, PK Gone in 2010!!

And again in a post game thread, in which a hundred things went wrong, how does Paulie's name get brought up? He was the very least of our problems. As a matter of fact he had a couple of hits, including just missing a homerun. You may not like the man, and you may want him gone, but he did nothing to merit that comment today.

We are just not a good team right now and the first person that needs to go is Scott Linebrink.

thomas35forever
09-17-2009, 10:53 PM
PK will be moved to free up salary for a move to get Crawford, and Rios will hit .290 .380 .750/ 30hrs 85-90 rbi's
PK has one year left on his contract. He'll be back.

Crawford is not going anywhere. He's the face of the Tampa franchise.

Rios? I don't even know where to go with that one.

voodoochile
09-17-2009, 10:53 PM
:jenks:
"The-ya the-ya the-ya that's all folks..."

JB98
09-17-2009, 10:53 PM
This offense sucks. It's awful. At any point in extra innings did you feel the Sox had a chance to score and win the game? I sure didn't.

Yeah, Jenks failed. But the offense didn't score A SINGLE RUN the last nine innings of this game. That's a joke.

doublem23
09-17-2009, 10:54 PM
The absolute worst part about today for me was that while I was watching the ninth, just as Bobby delivered the HR to Hall, one of the cats jumped on the couched and changed the channel with the clicker, but the screen froze as the ball was 1/2-way to the plate, and I saw where it was and while I was waiting for CSN to come back in, all I could think was "I hope that ball stayed in the park."

:angry:

soxyess
09-17-2009, 10:55 PM
And again in a post game thread, in which a hundred things went wrong, how does Paulie's name get brought up? He was the very least of our problems. As a matter of fact he had a couple of hits, including just missing a homerun. You may not like the man, and you may want him gone, but he did nothing to merit that comment today.

We are just not a good team right now and the first person that needs to go is Scott Linebrink.

PK will be moved to free up salary.

WhiteSoxOnly
09-17-2009, 10:56 PM
PK has one year left on his contract. He'll be back.

Crawford is not going anywhere. He's the face of the Tampa franchise.

Rios? I don't even know where to go with that one.

Come on now Thomas,let the man run with it.

Martinigirl
09-17-2009, 10:56 PM
PK will be moved to free up salary.

Yes, so I read. And Rios will be an all star.

It is fair to say we see things differently.

doublem23
09-17-2009, 10:56 PM
PK will be moved to free up salary for a move to get Crawford, and Rios will hit .290 .380 .750/ 30hrs 85-90 rbi's

I'm not even going to get into this stupid argument with you again, let's just point out that Konerko will be paid $12 million next year and has 10/5 rights. Not to mention, he's actually worth the money he's making unlike the rest of the middle of this lineup right now. He's not going anywhere. Just give it up.

JB98
09-17-2009, 10:57 PM
PK will be moved to free up salary.

Says the poster who thinks Danks is going to be traded this offseason too.

soxyess
09-17-2009, 10:58 PM
PK has one year left on his contract. He'll be back.

Crawford is not going anywhere. He's the face of the Tampa franchise.

Rios? I don't even know where to go with that one.

PK's contract will be moved (the money can be better spent)

Tampa will move Crawford because he is in the final year of his deal and will get huge bucks in free agency (not from Tampa)

Rios is in a big slump since moving here, but so is most of the offense. He has a ton of talent he will be back.

ChiSoxGirl
09-17-2009, 10:58 PM
The first caller on Rongey's show is EPIC!!! :popcorn:

soxyess
09-17-2009, 10:59 PM
Yes, so I read. And Rios will be an all star.

It is fair to say we see things differently.

Yea

Marqhead
09-17-2009, 11:00 PM
I never like a White Sox loss, but the irrationality that follows one lessens the blow.

This loss would hurt a lot more if it meant something, but the team is done. Today just brings us two steps closer to the end of the season.

Martinigirl
09-17-2009, 11:00 PM
PK's contract will be moved (the money can be better spent)

Tampa will move Crawford because he is in the final year of his deal and will get huge bucks in free agency (not from Tampa)

Rios is in a big slump since moving here, but so is most of the offense. He has a ton of talent he will be back.

I don't mean to be a bitch here, but I feel a need to point out that just because you repeat things over and over and over again, it doesn't make them true.

1989
09-17-2009, 11:00 PM
Positives: Danks is the man. This guy rebounded from a rocky start to the season and has given us a heck of an effort down the stretch. In fact, our whole Big 3 has. Even Freddy has been solid and I doubted if he could still come back with his injury problems. This staff is top of the line quality and could be the best in the MLB next season, especially with Hudson as insurance. And kudos to Mark Kotsay for being a solid addition to the lineup. He's actually hitting.

Negatives: Rios is ****ing terrible. Dye is ****ing terrible. Bobby was ****ing terrible today, and he's killed us this season.

Walker needs to go. Now. Our hitting with RISP was terrible as always. Why? Why can't we execute with a superior lineup? Why? There needs to be a change in philosophy from the hitting front. Period.

Linebrink gets the loss AGAIN! What is that #8? And that doesn't even count all the other games he's blown (Cubs, Royals, etc, etc) That joker sucks and I would trade him for whatever in an instant. Talk about addition by subtraction.

This was a game the Sox had to win. It was a must win. They could have gotten 5 1/2 out with the royals coming into town and maybe ride a little momentum into playing our division rivals. But they didn't. They choked. Choked on ****ing applesauce. Couldn't hit with RISP, couldn't close the game out, and couldn't have given the Seattle bullpen an easier time in extra innings. It's a shame. Another quality performance down the drain from our starters. Now, I can see why Peavy declined the trade in the first place, he'd lose out on half his potential wins!

RIP 2009 White Sox. I won't ****ing miss you. When do pitchers and catchers report?

GoGoCrede
09-17-2009, 11:01 PM
The first caller on Rongey's show is EPIC!!! :popcorn:

Do tell, I need a good laugh tonight.

Martinigirl
09-17-2009, 11:01 PM
The first caller on Rongey's show is EPIC!!! :popcorn:

Oh, I feel bad for Rongey tonight. The show isn't going to be pretty.

slavko
09-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Poor showing by Jenks, Linebrink, and the offense. End of story.

Bobby's given up NINE homeruns this year. Ohhh man, I've always defended him, but...man...he might be done.


I blame the loss on Jenks, not Liney. You expect it from Liney. But I hope there's a recipe in my cookbook for braised contract, because we're about to eat one. The homers tell you what you need to know about Jenks. The 12-6 curve? Missing all year. Those homers were on 2 batting practice cookies; bad location. Pena is a bit of a bright spot.

This offense sucks. It's awful. At any point in extra innings did you feel the Sox had a chance to score and win the game? I sure didn't.

Yeah, Jenks failed. But the offense didn't score A SINGLE RUN the last nine innings of this game. That's a joke.

Playing 2 men short on offense, we are. But I suppose playing the veterans puts butts in the seats.

doublem23
09-17-2009, 11:03 PM
Playing 2 men short on offense, we are. But I suppose playing the veterans puts butts in the seats.

Exactly, baseball's had an established minor league system for almost 70 years despite the fact it's totally worthless. Any shmuck who can hit in AA can hit at the MLB!!! Rush 'em all, future stunted development be damned!

It's Time
09-17-2009, 11:03 PM
They say a manager can win you 5-10 games a year and lose you 5-10 games a year.

Ozzie lost this game by Yanking Danks.

thomas35forever
09-17-2009, 11:04 PM
PK's contract will be moved (the money can be better spent)

Tampa will move Crawford because he is in the final year of his deal and will get huge bucks in free agency (not from Tampa)

Rios is in a big slump since moving here, but so is most of the offense. He has a ton of talent he will be back.
1) I see, and who do you want as our everyday first baseman? Kotsay? What do you propose we do with this money?

2) Even if Tampa does move Crawford, I don't see the Sox pursuing him. If they get Chone Figgins, they won't need him.

3) Of course Rios will be back. He's locked up for a good while. I'm optimistic about him bouncing back to his former level, but we won't know until we know.

tstrike2000
09-17-2009, 11:04 PM
PK's contract will b moved (the money can be better spent)

Tampa will move Crawford because he is in the final year of his deal and will get huge bucks in free agency (not from Tampa)

Rios is in a big slump since moving here, but so is most of the offense. He has a ton of talent he will be back.

http://milehighrev.typepad.com/shhh_small.jpg

JB98
09-17-2009, 11:07 PM
I blame the loss on Jenks, not Liney. You expect it from Liney. But I hope there's a recipe in my cookbook for braised contract, because we're about to eat one. The homers tell you what you need to know about Jenks. The 12-6 curve? Missing all year. Those homers were on 2 batting practice cookies; bad location. Pena is a bit of a bright spot.



Playing 2 men short on offense, we are. But I suppose playing the veterans puts butts in the seats.

I don't think so. We just don't have any young major-league ready outfielders. If Flowers were an outfielder, he'd be playing. The alternatives to Dye and Rios are Kotsay and Wise. And Ozzie is already getting Kotsay in there as much as possible, because Kotsay is actually producing.

Tragg
09-17-2009, 11:07 PM
They say a manager can win you 5-10 games a year and lose you 5-10 games a year.

Ozzie lost this game by Yanking Danks.

Young lefty on 97 pitches and you don't let him finish the game?
I guess it's easy to criticize in hindsight.

But one thing's for sure. Guillen's managing has cost this team games and while he may give the Sox an edge in the clubhouse, he and his band of yes-men do NOT provide one in the dugout.

FielderJones
09-17-2009, 11:08 PM
Joe Nathan gives up back-to-back homers with bases empty two outs two strikes, and he's still an elite closer. Bobby gives up two homers and he's fat. I love WSI.

voodoochile
09-17-2009, 11:08 PM
They say a manager can win you 5-10 games a year and lose you 5-10 games a year.

Ozzie lost this game by Yanking Danks.

He went to his closer in a 3-1 game in the ninth after Danks started to get hit pretty hard the previous few innings (though pitched over most of it).

That's a damned fine line you are drawing, IMO.

voodoochile
09-17-2009, 11:10 PM
Joe Nathan gives up back-to-back homers with bases empty two outs two strikes, and he's still an elite closer. Bobby gives up two homers and he's fat. I love WSI.

It's not his gut, it's his head or maybe his arm...

FielderJones
09-17-2009, 11:11 PM
He went to his closer in a 3-1 game in the ninth after Danks started to get hit pretty hard the previous few innings (though pitched over most of it).

That's a damned fine line you are drawing, IMO.

If the result goes south the manager can't win. If he leaves Danks in and we go to extras, Ozzie's a bum. If the closer has a bad day and we go to extras, he's a bum.

TDog
09-17-2009, 11:11 PM
Jenks trade value continues to diminish.

Just as Nathan's value does after every one of his blown saves (including the save where he gave up two home runs with two outs in the ninth)? No, that's not true. Jenks' trade value doesn't diminish when he blows a save because every closer blows saves.

David Aardsma is one of the best closers in the American League this year, and Jenks would have a higher trade value than Aardsma. But it is only fans talking about trading Jenks, so the point is moot.

Every closers blows saves. Even Mariano Rivera has a blown save this year.

The question I have is, why was Jenks in the game? Danks was pitching well. He pitched over a little bit of trouble in the eighth, he gave up a home run in the seventh (he always seems to be scored upon in the seventh, if he makes it to the seventh). Why didn't he stay in to get the complete game? The more you bring in relievers it isn't necessary to bring in relievers, the more your relievers are going to blow small leads.

Once again, the problem is the closer mentality, which I don't understand coming from Guillen because in so many ways he purports to be old school.

That isn't second-guessing. I have made this point on previous occasions.

Speaking of which, I don't know why Rios wasn't bunting in (I think it was) the 10th with Getz on first and none out. I am not a fan of the sacrifice, but with the top of the order coming up, the sacrifice rarely makes more sense than with the ninth-place hitter and none out in the ninth inning. I don't understand why Guillen doesn't bunt with the score tied, and yet he will call on better hitters than Rios to bunt with the Sox trailing by a run. Ramirez leads the Sox in sacrifices this year, and he is hitting about 40 points better than Rios.

That isn't second-guessing. I just thought it was a curiosity when I saw Rios didn't bunt before the pitch where he grounded into the doubleplay. If he actually bunted into a doubleplay, I apologize for the mini-tirade.

The point is probably moot anyway. Podsdednik struck out and Beckham simply isn't a very good hitter right now.

JB98
09-17-2009, 11:12 PM
It's not his gut, it's his head or maybe his arm...

I think it's his head. Boy, what a dumb pitch Jenks made to Hall. Don't ever need to throw that guy a strike. Hall gets himself out all the time. That's why the Brewers cut him.

Dotel made Hall look a fool in the extra innings, by wisely not throwing him a strike.

DickAllen72
09-17-2009, 11:13 PM
I think Pena will do wonders next year after a year of Coop tutelage. Thornton should be the closer.
Watch Pena's velocity go down after a year of Coop tutelage.

Jenks would pitch better if he would let loose with some of his high nineties stuff more often. That 96-99mph fastball to set up that hammer he has is what made him one of the best closers.

Thornton is too valuable in his current role to experiment with him as a closer. Lots of great set-up guys bombed as closers. Besides that, then the Sox would have a gaping hole at LH reliever, and that's not easily filled.

doublem23
09-17-2009, 11:13 PM
Joe Nathan gives up back-to-back homers with bases empty two outs two strikes, and he's still an elite closer. Bobby gives up two homers and he's fat. I love WSI.

Generally speaking, 1 game is not a great amount of data to analyze.

2009 Stats:

Joe Nathan: 2-2, 62 G, 60 IP, 41 Sv, 80 K, 19 BB, 38 H, 0.950 WHIP
Bobby Jenks: 3-4, 51 G, 52.1 IP, 29 Sv, 48 K, 16 BB, 50 H, 1.261 WHIP

Yeah, Nathan is still an elite closer. Bobby's been pretty bad all season.

Lip Man 1
09-17-2009, 11:14 PM
Random thoughts:

1. A sincere heartfelt "thank God" the season ends in two weeks.

2. This offense is truly horrific. 60th game they have scored three runs or less.

3. You wonder how much Angel Hernandez's blown call Monday wound up biting the Sox on the rear end Wednesday. 18 additional pitches doesn't sound like much...but in mid September after a long season? It may have made a bigger impact then anyone thinks.

4. This was the 9th game this season, where the Sox had a lead in the 7th inning or later and lost the game.

5. Of those nine instances, four times the lead disappeared in the 9th inning (5/24, 7/21, 7/25, 9/17). In each case Bobby Jenks was on the mound.

I don't know what the off season holds, but considering what Bobby may claim should he go to arbitration and win, I have to think Kenny is at least going to look at the possibility of dealing him.

6. Once again Ozzie outsmarted himself being more worried about 'pitch counts' than letting a starting pitcher who was on cruise control finish the game and win or lose own his own merits.

Lip

JohnnyInnsbrook
09-17-2009, 11:15 PM
They say a manager can win you 5-10 games a year and lose you 5-10 games a year.

Ozzie lost this game by Yanking Danks.

Hindsight is 20/20 ... no manager expects their closer to give up two home runs in the bottom of the 9th. This lose falls squarely on the solders of Bobby Jenks.

GoGoCrede
09-17-2009, 11:16 PM
Random thoughts:

1. A sincere heartfelt "thank God" the season ends in two weeks.



I dunno, Lip. No matter what, I'm never happy when baseball is over for the year.

Lip Man 1
09-17-2009, 11:17 PM
GoGo:

If you want baseball in the winter pull out your Sox tapes of games from 1983 or 1990 or 1993 or 2000 or 2005.

That solves the problem nicely....and the Sox always win.

Lip

DirtySox
09-17-2009, 11:18 PM
Generally speaking, 1 game is not a great amount of data to analyze.

2009 Stats:

Joe Nathan: 2-2, 62 G, 60 IP, 41 Sv, 80 K, 19 BB, 38 H, 0.950 WHIP
Bobby Jenks: 3-4, 51 G, 52.1 IP, 29 Sv, 48 K, 16 BB, 50 H, 1.261 WHIP

Yeah, Nathan is still an elite closer. Bobby's been pretty bad all season.


You beat me to it. The peripherals aren't even close. To consider Bobby as elite is laughable.

JB98
09-17-2009, 11:18 PM
I dunno, Lip. No matter what, I'm never happy when baseball is over for the year.

I'm usually sad to see baseball go, but I'm truly sick of this 2009 White Sox team. I've disliked them all year. It's been a rough season.

DirtySox
09-17-2009, 11:18 PM
I dunno, Lip. No matter what, I'm never happy when baseball is over for the year.

Amen.

JohnnyInnsbrook
09-17-2009, 11:19 PM
Random thoughts:
6. Once again Ozzie outsmarted himself being more worried about 'pitch counts' than letting a starting pitcher who was on cruise control finish the game and win or lose own his own merits.

Lip


And if Danks gives up 2 runs then its Ozzie's fault for not in putting his closer for the save situation.

Brian26
09-17-2009, 11:19 PM
the absolute worst part about today for me was that while i was watching the ninth, just as bobby delivered the hr to hall, one of the cats jumped on the couched and changed the channel with the clicker, but the screen froze as the ball was 1/2-way to the plate, and i saw where it was and while i was waiting for csn to come back in, all i could think was "i hope that ball stayed in the park."

:angry:

lol.

WhiteSoxOnly
09-17-2009, 11:20 PM
I dunno, Lip. No matter what, I'm never happy when baseball is over for the year.

Me neither,but this one can't end fast enough.Hell,we've all given
to much blood this year.I can't wait for Kenny to start dealing.

Lip Man 1
09-17-2009, 11:21 PM
Johnny:

What I know was that Danks was on cruise control and looked like he was throwing free and easy in the 8th inning. What I know is that Bobby had to throw more pitches than he should have because of a bad call on Monday night and has had a difficult season.

I'm old school. If my starter looks good, it's his game to win or lose, I don't care who is in my bullpen.

Danks could have started the 9th and then if he let a guy get on base, you bring Jenks in, Danks deserved the opportunity to win it or lose it.

Lip

Brian26
09-17-2009, 11:22 PM
They say a manager can win you 5-10 games a year and lose you 5-10 games a year.

Ozzie lost this game by Yanking Danks.

Should Ozzie be afraid to use his closer for the rest of the year?

Even though the offense is still in a funk, Jenks didn't do his job tonight. The loss is on him. He even had a margin of error tonight and still blew it.

VMSNS
09-17-2009, 11:22 PM
My thoughts...

-When Mark Kotsay accounts for 2/3 of your offense, there's a problem.
-When your offense is held scoreless for 9 straight innings in an extra-inning game, there's a problem.
-Walker needs to go.
-Linebrink needs to get his head out of his ass for next season, or we have to find some way of moving him (which isn't going to happen). The guy is just terrible.
-Bobby needs to shave that **** off his chin.
-Walker needs to go
-Bobby is fat

That is all.

JohnnyInnsbrook
09-17-2009, 11:30 PM
Johnny:

What I know was that Danks was on cruise control and looked like he was throwing free and easy in the 8th inning. What I know is that Bobby had to throw more pitches than he should have because of a bad call on Monday night and has had a difficult season.

I'm old school. If my starter looks good, it's his game to win or lose, I don't care who is in my bullpen.

Danks could have started the 9th and then if he let a guy get on base, you bring Jenks in, Danks deserved the opportunity to win it or lose it.

Lip

Fair enough. :gulp:

DirtySox
09-17-2009, 11:30 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-18-white-sox-mariners-sep18,0,3657665.story

I approve of Ozzie's assessment that this team is like a ****tease. Good quote.

Ozzie also says there will be changes in Friday's lineup.

http://www.670-thescore.com/blog/2009/09/17/guillen-all-but-giving-up-on-team/

A. Cavatica
09-17-2009, 11:34 PM
If the result goes south the manager can't win. If he leaves Danks in and we go to extras, Ozzie's a bum. If the closer has a bad day and we go to extras, he's a bum.

I agree with you.

He's a bum.

SoxSpeed22
09-17-2009, 11:39 PM
It sucks that Jenks gave up that home run, it's not like the offense not scoring for 9 innings helped. **** it, this season will be done soon enough.

Thatguyoverthere
09-17-2009, 11:40 PM
I love how Ozzie gets criticized anytime he uses someone other than Thornton, and when Thornton has a bad outing Ozzie still gets **** upon. Are people really ****ing complaining that he brought his closer in to protect a 2-run lead? :rolleyes:

voodoochile
09-17-2009, 11:42 PM
I love how Ozzie gets criticized anytime he uses someone other than Thornton, and when Thornton has a bad outing Ozzie still gets **** upon. Are people really ****ing complaining that he brought his closer in to protect a 2-run lead? :rolleyes:

:welcome:

Jerko
09-17-2009, 11:47 PM
*** is Jenks gonna become the "I can only pitch with a 1 run lead" guy? If you can't use him when it's 3-1 going into the 9th, when can you?

chisoxfanatic
09-17-2009, 11:52 PM
Dye has gotta go! He's Oh-fer his last 19 with RISP. He's been useless since the All Star break!

Lip Man 1
09-17-2009, 11:54 PM
In the post mortum Ozzie also went off again on the lack of fundamentals and how bad a hitting team this is.

Lip

fox23
09-17-2009, 11:58 PM
Generally speaking, 1 game is not a great amount of data to analyze.

2009 Stats:

Joe Nathan: 2-2, 62 G, 60 IP, 41 Sv, 80 K, 19 BB, 38 H, 0.950 WHIP
Bobby Jenks: 3-4, 51 G, 52.1 IP, 29 Sv, 48 K, 16 BB, 50 H, 1.261 WHIP

Yeah, Nathan is still an elite closer. Bobby's been pretty bad all season.

Thanks for saving me the time. To compare Jenks to Nathan this year is laughable. Bobby very well could (and I hope) bounce back next year, but this season was a pretty bad one for him.

shingo10
09-18-2009, 12:01 AM
In the post mortum Ozzie also went off again on the lack of fundamentals and how bad a hitting team this is.

Lip

Guess we'll have to get back to basics in Spring Training...

What a heartbreaker this one was.

How exactly does one retool this bullpen? Honestly Jenks is still one of the best out there as unreal as that seems. Not sure if getting rid of him would do anything other than further weaken the pen.

Ward Hershberger
09-18-2009, 12:02 AM
In the post mortum Ozzie also went off again on the lack of fundamentals and how bad a hitting team this is.

Lip

then why not try more Hit and Runs, Bunt for hits, etc? Can't just let all these guys continue to go up and swing for the fences and expect anything other then the crap they're producing

JB98
09-18-2009, 12:06 AM
Guess we'll have to get back to basics in Spring Training...

What a heartbreaker this one was.

How exactly does one retool this bullpen? Honestly Jenks is still one of the best out there as unreal as that seems. Not sure if getting rid of him would do anything other than further weaken the pen.

It's entirely possible Jenks bounces back next year. Sometimes, closers just have bad years.

StillMissOzzie
09-18-2009, 12:11 AM
Jenks will not be on this team in 2010.

As I told my son earlier this evening, I think that the Sox brass are no longer in love with Bobby Jenks. If he was angling for a long term deal, he's going about it all wrong. I don't think that the Sox even want to go to arbitration with Jenks now.

Poor showing by Jenks, Linebrink, and the offense. End of story.
Expected from Linebrink, becoming commonplace with Jenks, and same old story with the offense.

PK has one year left on his contract. He'll be back.


I think PK will be back in 2010, but it might be as the DH only

They say a manager can win you 5-10 games a year and lose you 5-10 games a year.

Ozzie lost this game by Yanking Danks. I heard on TV that Danks had only thrown 90-something pitches! Couldn't Ozzie at least let him start the 9th and then yank him at the first sign of trouble? It's not like Jenks is Mr. Automatic anymore.

1) I see, and who do you want as our everyday first baseman? Kotsay? What do you propose we do with this money?

2) Even if Tampa does move Crawford, I don't see the Sox pursuing him. If they get Chone Figgins, they won't need him.

3) Of course Rios will be back. He's locked up for a good while. I'm optimistic about him bouncing back to his former level, but we won't know until we know.
I can't see anyone else taking Rios and his ridiculous contract off the Sox' hands, so I'd say they are stuck with each other. And if the Yankees *or* Angels want Figgins, they won't be outbid by the Sox.

It sucks that Jenks gave up that home run, it's not like the offense not scoring for 9 innings helped. **** it, this season will be done soon enough. Home runs. There were 2 of them. But no offensive help for 9 innings of that game stinks out loud too.

Back to Jenks and closers in general. The premier closers will blow 2-3 a year, maybe 5% of their save opportunities. The above average closers might blow maybe 10% of their chances. This year, I think that Jenks has blown more than 20% of his save opportunities, which is pretty crappy in my opinion. To make matters worse, IIRC, the Jenks HR tally for 2009 alone is more than the last 3 years combined.

Certainly not deserving of an extended contract, and not meriting a big raise in arbitration, either. Which means that I think Jenks will be gone for the 2010 campaign.

SMO
:gulp:

WhiteSox1989
09-18-2009, 12:15 AM
This was a disappointing loss.

I am look forward to this last home stand, though. I'm going to miss when baseball is done.

Hitmen77
09-18-2009, 12:19 AM
Did anyone really expect them to win after Jenks' BS in the 9th?

Nope.

guillensdisciple
09-18-2009, 12:19 AM
This will more or less sum up what I have felt about this team since I have come back from my vacation 3 and a half weeks ago:


**** THIS MOTHER****ING TEAM AND **** YOU JERMAINE, **** YOU RIOS, AND **** YOU OFFENSE.



Now, before people tell me to calm down, I watched decent baseball all year only to see 9-15 since I came back.

Give me a break, and play your rookies. I am sick of giving a crap. But I can't stop- how fing weird is that?

Mod Edit: And you've run out of warnings. When you come back, I strongly suggest you THOROUGHLY read the board rules. DO NOT evade language filters.

slavko
09-18-2009, 12:20 AM
In the post mortum Ozzie also went off again on the lack of fundamentals and how bad a hitting team this is.

Lip

That could mean our favorite whipping boy is on thin ice if one wants to read between the lines. Unless Ozzie wants to take the blame himself. (fat chance)

then why not try more Hit and Runs, Bunt for hits, etc? Can't just let all these guys continue to go up and swing for the fences and expect anything other then the crap they're producing

They did try a hit & run with Rios which resulted in an unplayable foul pop, just before the double play. I was thinking sac bunt too, OK in a situation where one run will do the job. We need a hard-hit-balls stat for Rios, his BA is embarrassing.

Hitmen77
09-18-2009, 12:30 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-18-white-sox-mariners-sep18,0,3657665.story

I approve of Ozzie's assessment that this team is like a ****tease. Good quote.

Ozzie also says there will be changes in Friday's lineup.

http://www.670-thescore.com/blog/2009/09/17/guillen-all-but-giving-up-on-team/


We've heard that before from Ozzie.

TDog
09-18-2009, 12:40 AM
...

Give me a break, and play your rookies. I am sick of giving a crap. But I can't stop- how fing weird is that?

Beckham and Getz are playing every day. They aren't helping the offense. In fact, Beckham has been a huge part of the problem in the last couple of weeks.

I don't know what rookies you're looking for the Sox to play. I can't see Flowers starting on a regular basis at catcher, and not just because Pierzynski isn't part of the problem.

DirtySox
09-18-2009, 12:47 AM
Beckham and Getz are playing every day. They aren't helping the offense. In fact, Beckham has been a huge part of the problem in the last couple of weeks.

I don't know what rookies you're looking for the Sox to play. I can't see Flowers starting on a regular basis at catcher, and not just because Pierzynski isn't part of the problem.

Yes, Gordon's .297 BA for September is clearly part of the problem. He struggled in August but has been rather good lately. Labeling Getz and Beckham as this team's offensive problem with the disgusting performances of Dye/Rios/Quentin at the plate is flat out wrong.

You also forgot to mention something about Oakland and Rios' defense.

Lip Man 1
09-18-2009, 12:54 AM
"I'm tired and I don't have anything. ... It was 2 1/2 hours of satisfaction and then 2 1/2 hours of horse[bleep] baseball. Go ask them. I don't have any more quotes, seriously. What the [bleep] am I going to say? They're horse[bleep]? Yes, they are. If they give up on me, then I give up on them. -- Ozzie Guillen

Ward:

Ozzie has apparently lost all faith his players can even execute the smallest of the fundamentals which is why I think he's given that area up just like in 2007.

''We cannot continue to miss signs. We cannot continue to try and hit-and-run and hit a foul ball. We cannot continue to miss bunts.
'That's going to be our main thing in spring training -- make sure we do the little things right day in and day out. If we do that we won't go into slumps like we do this year. We're not going to be in a slump because someone will do something to break it up. We won't have to wait for the big boys to wake up all season long. You learn from it, and hopefully we continue to improve.''--Ozzie Guillen

Lip

michned
09-18-2009, 01:02 AM
Certainly not deserving of an extended contract, and not meriting a big raise in arbitration, either. Which means that I think Jenks will be gone for the 2010 campaign.

I think so, too. Of course, Bobby keeps diminishing his trade value, but it makes sense to deal him because of his likely salary due to arbitration, and the fact that Thornton can close.

And if Linebrink continues to be this bad in Spring Training, I hope management has the stones to do something about it. Yes, he's making millions for the next two years, but if he's not helping the team in any way, he shouldn't be on the 25-man.

BarbG
09-18-2009, 01:11 AM
I'm old school. If my starter looks good, it's his game to win or lose, I don't care who is in my bullpen.

Danks could have started the 9th and then if he let a guy get on base, you bring Jenks in, Danks deserved the opportunity to win it or lose it.

Lip

I could not agree with you more!!!

This one was a real punch in the gut.

johnnyg83
09-18-2009, 01:39 AM
I repeat: This team hates opportunity.

Konerko05
09-18-2009, 02:22 AM
Beckham and Getz are playing every day. They aren't helping the offense. In fact, Beckham has been a huge part of the problem in the last couple of weeks.

You are constantly taking little shots at Beckham in your posts. What exactly do you have against Beckham?

He is a 22 year old rookie playing a foreign position and managing to post a .818 OPS. That is beyond impressive.

The only time Beckham has been part of the problem in the last two weeks is when he was injured because he has easily been one of the best hitters on the team all year.

As someone said, he is batting .297 in September with a 1.080 OPS. He has also improved his defense to the point where it is now an asset. Yeah, huge part of the problem. Ridiculous.

Don't worry, I don't think the Sox have any plans of Beckham replacing your boy Alexei at SS.

LITTLE NELL
09-18-2009, 05:59 AM
It's so sad I don't know weather to cry or scream, the division was there for the taking. The Tigers don't want it but will win it by default.

Craig Grebeck
09-18-2009, 07:12 AM
You are constantly taking little shots at Beckham in your posts. What exactly do you have against Beckham?

He is a 22 year old rookie playing a foreign position and managing to post a .818 OPS. That is beyond impressive.

The only time Beckham has been part of the problem in the last two weeks is when he was injured because he has easily been one of the best hitters on the team all year.

As someone said, he is batting .297 in September with a 1.080 OPS. He has also improved his defense to the point where it is now an asset. Yeah, huge part of the problem. Ridiculous.

Don't worry, I don't think the Sox have any plans of Beckham replacing your boy Alexei at SS.
I can't see how anyone could criticize Gordon. What are you expecting from the kid? He's been amazing.

white sox bill
09-18-2009, 07:18 AM
Other than we are paying him stupid money, is there a reason Linebrink is still on a MLB roster? Move over Todd Ritchie you have company.

harwar
09-18-2009, 09:24 AM
what a mess .. JD just looks depressed to me .. Rios looks lost .. Linebrink looks scared .. Ozzie looks slightly insane .. and KW just looks really really angry .. Jenks seems to have lost command of his off-speed stuff n the only movement on his fast ball is when it's going the other way cuz it's hit so hard .. i don't know how anyone can say anything bad about Beckham .. i love watching him adjust .. what a future that kid has .. everything seems to have gone wrong this year, as far as actually winning games, so maybe that will be reversed next year .. things can't always go your way i suppose, but it's fun when they do .. next year all i ask is that the White Sox play each and every game as if guaranteed contracts were a thing of the past and for the management to be as smart as i think they are .. count me as one who will miss baseball during the off season and i'm a bit sad right now, just pondering it .. who's to say what 2010 will bring, but i do kind of look forward to watching to see what KW does as the cold descends on us all .. i do like hockey, but actually there is little room left in my heart for anything but baseball it seems ..

SI1020
09-18-2009, 10:35 AM
Watch Pena's velocity go down after a year of Coop tutelage.

Jenks would pitch better if he would let loose with some of his high nineties stuff more often. That 96-99mph fastball to set up that hammer he has is what made him one of the best closers.
Some posters here were beat to a pulp for suggesting Jenks has lost some velocity. To me it's as plain as day. When Jenks first pitched for the Sox he was topping out at 102, and consistently in the high 90s. He doesn't come close to that now. Not even close. Of course it also means he hasn't lost any velocity.

wilburaga
09-18-2009, 10:36 AM
In my 50+ years of cheering for the White Sox I have never felt as confident as when the ball is in Bobby Jenks's hand with a lead in the ninth. The guy's been pretty close to automatic his whole career and he's kooked pretty damned good doing it.

No question, this year he's been mediocre. Not Billy Koch guaranteed awful, but he's come back to the pack of the Thiggys, Bob James, Lerrin Lagroove style of on-again off-again Sox closers. I don't think it makes sense to move him now thaty his trade value is at its nadir. He'll make sme change through arbitration biut it won't break the bank.

With free agency looming hopefully BBBJ will embrace a more rigid conditioning program and come back with a strong 2010.

W

BigKlu59
09-18-2009, 11:04 AM
:whiner: These guys are way past making you reach for that Prozac bottle. If you want to medicate your mind into numbness just watch an inning of Sox batting ineptitude.. I cant recall a team being handed so many chances to gain ground on a Divison leader only to soil the bed...

Agree with Lip on letting your starter go till he hits the wall... To not be able to get 6 outs with this Bull Pen is a travesty.

The Story of these 2009 White Sox is this.... They never became a come from behind team all season... Flash back to 2005...How many games did that team win after 7 innings compared to this enigma? Throw in fiascos like this game noted by Lip when they have had the lead and voila.... Horse****.

Yes they are maddening... Look at the starting rotation (On Paper) Look at the Line up (On Paper) and this team should hit the century mark in wins.... You know what they say about a piece of paper... You can also use that same piece of paper,folded twice to wipe your arse...

Walker? The guy must have some compromising pictures if Kenny with Farm animals to keep hanging around..

Coop?... Did he get spoiled in NY and feels he doesnt have to have any interventions in technique with our Gas Can relief staff?

Ozwald The Savant?... Maybe grab a piece of lumber and show your squad how to spray the ball around the field to advance all of those wasted ducks on the pond... Mod edit: Removed your "funny" homosexual reference. Don't do it again.

In true Sox fashion they are running into the team that is on a roll and are playing their best baseball all seaon.... Can things get any worse?

BigKlu59

Nellie_Fox
09-18-2009, 11:27 AM
Some posters here were beat to a pulp for suggesting Jenks has lost some velocity. To me it's as plain as day. When Jenks first pitched for the Sox he was topping out at 102, and consistently in the high 90s. He doesn't come close to that now. Not even close. Of course it also means he hasn't lost any velocity.The highest I ever remember seeing was 101 in Seattle a few years ago, and I think Seattle has a fast gun. However, he was consistently in the high 90's. I wasn't concerned when he dropped to 95ish, figuring he was just getting a little more movement.

Now, he's consistently 91-93. I'm pretty well convinced there's been a fall-off. Maybe he needs to put himself back on his post-surgery workout routine to strengthen the arm again.

VMSNS
09-18-2009, 12:16 PM
The highest I ever remember seeing was 101 in Seattle a few years ago, and I think Seattle has a fast gun. However, he was consistently in the high 90's. I wasn't concerned when he dropped to 95ish, figuring he was just getting a little more movement.

Now, he's consistently 91-93. I'm pretty well convinced there's been a fall-off. Maybe he needs to put himself back on his post-surgery workout routine to strengthen the arm again.

Sure. Maybe there has been a dip in his velocity. But, I think some people might be over-exaggerating it. He threw 100mph at the Blackout game last season, and I clearly remember him hitting 98-100mph on a couple occasions this season. He can throw that hard, but I think he might just be infatuated with using his breaking stuff right now (which doesn't ever seem to yield great results). Or maybe he just got burned out from throwing that hard for so long? Or maybe he just wants to be more of a finesse pitcher?

I agree with a previous poster about preferring him to just use the fastball to set up his curve.

FielderJones
09-18-2009, 12:22 PM
Sure. Maybe there has been a dip in his velocity. But, I think some people might be over-exaggerating it. He threw 100mph at the Blackout game last season, and I clearly remember him hitting 98-100mph on a couple occasions this season. He can throw that hard, but I think he might just be infatuated with using his breaking stuff right now (which doesn't ever seem to yield great results). Or maybe he just got burned out from throwing that hard for so long? Or maybe he just wants to be more of a finesse pitcher?

I agree with a previous poster about preferring him to just use the fastball to set up his curve.

I don't ever see Bobby shake off AJ. AJ has to shoulder some of the blame for this, calling too many sliders and other offspeed stuff.

Redus Redux
09-18-2009, 12:24 PM
I don't ever see Bobby shake off AJ. AJ has to shoulder some of the blame for this, calling too many sliders and other offspeed stuff.

I dont know how much we can really blame AJ though. Jenks no longer has in his arsenal the pitches that once made him great.

At least we sure never see em

TDog
09-18-2009, 02:40 PM
You are constantly taking little shots at Beckham in your posts. What exactly do you have against Beckham?

He is a 22 year old rookie playing a foreign position and managing to post a .818 OPS. That is beyond impressive.

The only time Beckham has been part of the problem in the last two weeks is when he was injured because he has easily been one of the best hitters on the team all year.

As someone said, he is batting .297 in September with a 1.080 OPS. He has also improved his defense to the point where it is now an asset. Yeah, huge part of the problem. Ridiculous.

Don't worry, I don't think the Sox have any plans of Beckham replacing your boy Alexei at SS.

Beckham actually is hitting .279 for September and was 2-for-15 in the Seattle series with more strikeouts than hits. If Chris Getz had done that, people would be complaining. If DeWayne Wise had started and gone 2-for-15, people would be calling for his release. (One of the hits was a solo home run in the eighth with the team down by four, which wouldn't have been celebrated if Konerko or, heaven forbid, Dye had hit it.) Beckham, who people in the national media were talking about as rookie of the year a month ago is no longer considered among the frontrunners.

I think moving him to the second spot in the lineup hurt him. He really doesn't do the things a No. 2 hitter is supposed to do and it increased his profile with the opposition. He was hitting .394 in the 8 spot, but since Guillen moved him up, he has been hitting .246.

I'm not anti-Beckham. I think he is a great piece to the White Sox next year. I think the White Sox have an outstanding infield with rookies Beckham and Getz (who isn't getting enough praise at WSI) Ramirez and Konerko.

There are only a couple of players on this team who hit with runners in scoring position and drive in runners from third with less than two outs most of the time -- and they are Konerko and Ramirez. You could throw Kotsay into the mix. Beckham was doing very well with runners in scoring position, and is still hitting .313 in that situation, but he hasn't been doing anything with runners in scoring position the last couple of weeks.

If I am too critical about Beckham because he isn't doing more (and typically with strong rookies there is a crop-off the next season, so I don't expect it to be a given that he will be doing more next year), it may be to balance others at WSI giving him a free pass while attacking attacking others who are at least as undeserving as Beckham.

To the point, the Sox are playing two rookies. They are playing their rookeis who will be starting next year. They aren't playing Flowers, but Flowers won't be up with the Sox next spring.

PhillipsBubba
09-18-2009, 05:09 PM
Those of us who don't drink White Sox KoolAid could see this was a seriously flawed team back in April and May.

So next spring when we ring the alarm bells people had better take it seriously.

I and so sick of that old refrain, "...it's only April...it's only May...":scratch:

Hey those losses hurt just as much as the losses in September...

I'll get excited about the 2010 White Sox when they are 5 games ahead with 4 games to play.

PS...Did anyone else notice that Hawk didn't have the balls to say Fat Bobby Jenks gave up the ninth inning home runs yesterday. Several times he mentioned how Seattle tied the score but he couldn't brink himself to mentioned Fatso's name.

Thank God Steve Stone isn't a sell-out and was professional enough to report the full story, mentioning who blew the save!

FielderJones
09-18-2009, 05:12 PM
Those of us who don't drink White Sox KoolAid could see this was a seriously flawed team back in April and May.

So next spring when we ring the alarm bells people had better take it seriously.


Congratulations on your superior wisdom.

voodoochile
09-18-2009, 05:19 PM
Those of us who don't drink White Sox KoolAid could see this was a seriously flawed team back in April and May.

So next spring when we ring the alarm bells people had better take it seriously.

I and so sick of that old refrain, "...it's only April...it's only May...":scratch:

Hey those losses hurt just as much as the losses in September...

I'll get excited about the 2010 White Sox when they are 5 games ahead with 4 games to play.

PS...Did anyone else notice that Hawk didn't have the balls to say Fat Bobby Jenks gave up the ninth inning home runs yesterday. Several times he mentioned how Seattle tied the score but he couldn't brink himself to mentioned Fatso's name.

Thank God Steve Stone isn't a sell-out and was professional enough to report the full story, mentioning who blew the save!


Many of those same folks were whining in 2005 and 2008. Crowing about it doesn't seem much good to me. But here, if it will make you feel better, I'll give you a pat on the back...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2791

Feeling better?

FielderJones
09-18-2009, 05:22 PM
Many of those same folks were whining in 2005 and 2008. Crowing about it doesn't seem much good to me. But here, if it will make you feel better, I'll give you a pat on the back...

Oooooh, snap! I was worried that I was too harsh. :D:

Konerko05
09-18-2009, 05:29 PM
Beckham actually is hitting .279 for September and was 2-for-15 in the Seattle series with more strikeouts than hits. If Chris Getz had done that, people would be complaining. If DeWayne Wise had started and gone 2-for-15, people would be calling for his release. (One of the hits was a solo home run in the eighth with the team down by four, which wouldn't have been celebrated if Konerko or, heaven forbid, Dye had hit it.) Beckham, who people in the national media were talking about as rookie of the year a month ago is no longer considered among the frontrunners.

I think moving him to the second spot in the lineup hurt him. He really doesn't do the things a No. 2 hitter is supposed to do and it increased his profile with the opposition. He was hitting .394 in the 8 spot, but since Guillen moved him up, he has been hitting .246.

I'm not anti-Beckham. I think he is a great piece to the White Sox next year. I think the White Sox have an outstanding infield with rookies Beckham and Getz (who isn't getting enough praise at WSI) Ramirez and Konerko.

There are only a couple of players on this team who hit with runners in scoring position and drive in runners from third with less than two outs most of the time -- and they are Konerko and Ramirez. You could throw Kotsay into the mix. Beckham was doing very well with runners in scoring position, and is still hitting .313 in that situation, but he hasn't been doing anything with runners in scoring position the last couple of weeks.

If I am too critical about Beckham because he isn't doing more (and typically with strong rookies there is a crop-off the next season, so I don't expect it to be a given that he will be doing more next year), it may be to balance others at WSI giving him a free pass while attacking attacking others who are at least as undeserving as Beckham.

To the point, the Sox are playing two rookies. They are playing their rookeis who will be starting next year. They aren't playing Flowers, but Flowers won't be up with the Sox next spring.

You couldn't even resist taking more little shots at Beckham in your response.

Ok, Beckham is hitting .279 in September. Is that supposed to be bad? He also has four homeruns and is getting on base at a decent clip. Is a rookie's .992 OPS in September really something to complain about?

The reason people call for Dewayne Wise to be released when he goes 2-15 in a series is because he goes 2-15 in every series. It has something to do with that .212 career average.

Are you really complaining because Beckham hit a solo homerun when the team was down by four? Let's not forget Beckham's solo homerun started a massive rally in the 9th to come back against an elite closer in Minnesota. That solo homerun could've been a huge spark for this team's turnaround if the rest of the offense wasn't so incompetent.

Beckham is still among the top candidates for ROY. He just isn't getting as much publicity as he did when he totally dominated the nation's beloved Yankees.

Beckham is in the two spot because he is a very good hitter who knows how to get on base while possessing decent speed. He is also very good at hitting opposite field when he's on his game.

How can you say Beckham doesn't hit well with RISP. A .313 BA with RISP isn't good? He's hitting .350 with 2 outs and RISP. He has 54 RBIs in 89 games. I don't really know how you can expect more from the kid. Even Albert Pujols has a bad two weeks.

The reason most of WSI gives him a free pass when he has two bad weeks is pretty damn obvious. As I've already said, he's a 22 year old rookie playing a foreign position. He has been one of the best hitters on the team all year. A two week slump is more than okay in my book. He has also busted his ass to become above average at a position he's basically learned at the ML level.

How much he has succeeded this year is simply amazing.

kufram
09-18-2009, 05:48 PM
Those of us who don't drink White Sox KoolAid could see this was a seriously flawed team back in April and May.

So next spring when we ring the alarm bells people had better take it seriously.

I and so sick of that old refrain, "...it's only April...it's only May...":scratch:

Hey those losses hurt just as much as the losses in September...

I'll get excited about the 2010 White Sox when they are 5 games ahead with 4 games to play.




The losses in April/May of course do count the same in the standings as the losses in September, but with 5-6 more wins in September (which was easily doable, just didn't get done) no one would remember the early losses because they wouldn't matter at this point.

You will always hear the refrain because you can't write anybody off in May... there are too many games to play. The Sox have been bad but the reason they will not win the Central, if that proves to be the case, will be because the Tigers or Twins won games in September and the Sox didn't

I've had a season of serious ups and downs and frustration... but rather that than a season I gave up on in May.

voodoochile
09-18-2009, 06:23 PM
I'll get excited about the 2010 White Sox when they are 5 games ahead with 4 games to play.

I completely skimmed over this point you made. Personally, I think that's a horrible, defeatist attitude. Wait around all year expecting failure and then get excited once the team has clinched the division (okay, it's September 30, I guess I'll hop on the bandwagon, nothing better to do anyway... sigh...)

Ugh...

:chunks

jabrch
09-18-2009, 06:28 PM
So next spring when we ring the alarm bells people had better take it seriously.

Or we won't pay a bit of attention at all to someone who is already telling us they will "ring the alarm bells" when they have absolutely no ****ing clue who will be on the roster?

Or we will ignore them because they are the same people who were predicting doom and gloom every year?

Or we will ignore them because spring is not the time to be predicting doom and gloom for most teams (save the few perennial doormats).

You can be as negative as you want in April. I don't give a ****. But the hell if I am going to pay one ounce of credit to people who predict the worst every year before the season, and then show up to brag about it. **** that. It's complete horse****.

TDog
09-18-2009, 09:10 PM
...

How much he has succeeded this year is simply amazing.

That's true. And if the season had ended a month ago, he would be voted AL Rookie of the Year. During the Saturday game in Oakland about a month ago, his batting averaged topped .310. In the last month, his average has dropped about 40 points. In that time, he has stopped hitting with runners on base. He may not hit .270 for the season.

Perhaps not coincidentally, the Sox began to fall out of the race after that Saturday in Oakland, when he stopped hitting.

Complain about the Sox not hitting with runners in scoring position until your fingers cramp, but in Seattle he didn't get any hits when he came up with runners in scoring position and in the third inning Friday night he failed with a runner on third and two outs.

In the last month, Beckham is hitting better than Rios or Dye, but he isn't hitting well and he is a part of the problem. He shouldn't get a pass on criticism any more than Getz, who gets more than his share.

Nellie_Fox
09-19-2009, 12:48 AM
Those of us who don't drink White Sox KoolAid could see this was a seriously flawed team back in April and May.

So next spring when we ring the alarm bells people had better take it seriously.
This is such an arrogant statement that I was stunned to read it.

How could you type that without being embarrassed? What happens if we don't take you seriously? And what happens if the next time you "ring the alarm bells" you're wrong?

Yeah, I'll spend all of next season waiting for you to tell me what to think. Get over yourself.