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Foulke You
09-17-2009, 04:21 PM
This factoid was on my White Sox desk calendar a few days ago:

"In 21 Seasons with the White Sox, pitcher Ted Lyons won 260 games, faced both Ty Cobb and Ted Williams, hurled a no hitter, and pitched a 21-inning complete game loss."

What a completely different era of baseball we have now. Starting pitchers rarely throw 7 or 8 innings and this guy threw 21 innings in one game. He also played all 21 seasons for the White Sox which obviously never happens anymore. Another interesting fact about Lyons was that he was known for his "sailor" pitch which is now known as the cut fastball. He was throwing it long before it was the designer pitch it is today.

Sometimes it is easy to forget some of these White Sox players of the past because it has happened so long ago and many who saw him pitch have died. As great as pitchers like Mark Buehrle, Jack McDowell, Joel Horlen, and even Billy Pierce were, their numbers don't come close to what Ted Lyons did. He is arguably the best pitcher in White Sox history and he is rarely spoken of. If the Sox are looking for another statue idea for the concourse, they might want to consider Hall of Famer Ted Lyons. There is a great bio of Lyons on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Lyons

PalehosePlanet
09-17-2009, 04:29 PM
This factoid was on my White Sox desk calendar a few days ago:

"In 21 Seasons with the White Sox, pitcher Ted Lyons won 260 games, faced both Ty Cobb and Ted Williams, hurled a no hitter, and pitched a 21-inning complete game loss."

What a completely different era of baseball we have now. Starting pitchers rarely throw 7 or 8 innings and this guy threw 21 innings in one game. He also played all 21 seasons for the White Sox which obviously never happens anymore. Another interesting fact about Lyons was that he was known for his "sailor" pitch which is now known as the cut fastball. He was throwing it long before it was the designer pitch it is today.

Sometimes it is easy to forget some of these White Sox players of the past because it has happened so long ago and many who saw him pitch have died. As great as pitchers like Mark Buehrle, Jack McDowell, Joel Horlen, and even Billy Pierce were, their numbers don't come close to what Ted Lyons did. He is arguably the best pitcher in White Sox history and he is rarely spoken of. If the Sox are looking for another statue idea for the concourse, they might want to consider Hall of Famer Ted Lyons. There is a great bio of Lyons on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Lyons

Nice post, agree on him getting a statue sometime soon. I wonder what his lifetime stats would look like if he didn't play on terrible teams for about 15 of those 21 years.

Also don't forget our HOF'er "Big" Ed Walsh. His 1.82 career ERA is the best in MLB history.

Foulke You
09-17-2009, 04:35 PM
Nice post, agree on him getting a statue sometime soon. I wonder what his lifetime stats would look like if he didn't play on terrible teams for about 15 of those 21 years.

Also don't forget our HOF'er "Big" Ed Walsh. His 1.82 career ERA is the best in MLB history.
There is a quote from former Yankees manager Joe McCarthy who said that if Ted Lyons had played for the Yankees, he would have won 400 games. I also find it curious that Lyons didn't get his #16 retired by the Sox until 1987 which was 1 year after his death. However, he was elected into the Hall of Fame in 1955. What was the team waiting so long for?

You mentioned Big Ed Walsh and he is another good one from the past. Players from his era don't even get the recognition of having a number retired on the outfield wall because they had no numbers back then. It might be cool if the Sox could still put his name and image on the wall to recognize his accomplishments.

PalehosePlanet
09-17-2009, 04:41 PM
There is a quote from former Yankees manager Joe McCarthy who said that if Ted Lyons had played for the Yankees, he would have won 400 games. I also find it curious that Lyons didn't get his #16 retired by the Sox until 1 year after his death. However, he was elected into the Hall of Fame in 1955. What was the team waiting so long for?

You mentioned Big Ed Walsh and he is another good one from the past. Players from his era don't even get the recognition of having a number retired on the outfield wall because they had no numbers back then. It might be cool if the Sox could still put his name and image on the wall to recognize his accomplishments.

Yeah, excellent point. Besides Walsh, guys like Eddie Collins, Red Faber, Joe Jackson, Doc White et al shouldn't be excluded just because they didn't wear a number.

Foulke You
09-17-2009, 04:57 PM
Yeah, excellent point. Besides Walsh, guys like Eddie Collins, Red Faber, Joe Jackson, Doc White et al shouldn't be excluded just because they didn't wear a number.
I almost wonder if the Sox shy away from honoring any of the players from the 1919 team (like Joe Jackson) because of its controversial nature. This still doesn't explain guys like Ed Walsh or Doc White not being honored.

Railsplitter
09-17-2009, 06:26 PM
You mentioned Big Ed Walsh and he is another good one from the past. Players from his era don't even get the recognition of having a number retired on the outfield wall because they had no numbers back then. It might be cool if the Sox could still put his name and image on the wall to recognize his accomplishments.

Teams have done this. The Tigers homor Ty Cobb, The Cardinals Rogers Hornsby, and the Giants John McGraw and Christy Matthewson; all from and era prior to numbers.

soxinem1
09-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Give them statues and even a big plaque or banner. Take care of your past legends!

Lip Man 1
09-17-2009, 11:32 PM
Foulke:

Here's another one:

June 21, 1942 - Sox pitcher and future Hall of Famer Ted Lyons wins his 250th game beating the Red Sox 6 - 5. That season Lyons only pitched on Sunday’s and posted this incredible statistic. In his 20 starts he completed all 20 games! At the end of the season Lyons then joined the Marines and served four years.


And Lyons came within one out of a second no-hitter. A bloop hit ended the suspense in the Sox 17-0 win.

Lip

Foulke You
09-18-2009, 04:24 PM
Foulke:

Here's another one:

June 21, 1942- Sox pitcher and future Hall of Famer Ted Lyons wins his 250th game beating the Red Sox 6 - 5. That season Lyons only pitched on Sunday’s and posted this incredible statistic. In his 20 starts he completed all 20 games!At the end of the season Lyons then joined the Marines and served four years.


And Lyons came within one out of a second no-hitter. A bloop hit ended the suspense in the Sox 17-0 win.

Lip
Wow, 20 straight complete games pitched. This will just never happen again in the modern era of baseball. With the salaries pitchers get today combined with managers living in constant fear of getting fired, nobody would ever allow their starter to log so many innings for fear of injury. Can you imagine if they kept track of pitch counts in the era of Ted Lyons? How many pitches do you think he would have racked up in that 21 inning game he pitched? 250 perhaps? :o:

Lip Man 1
09-18-2009, 05:57 PM
Foulke:

Try this one on for size:

September 13, 1967 - In one of the longest games in franchise history and in the middle of a four team pennant race, the Sox shut out Cleveland 1 - 0 in seventeen innings! (Now that’s pitching!) The game lasted over four and a half hours and was finally finished when Rocky Colavito singled to right driving home Buddy Bradford. One other note on this game. Sox starter Gary Peters allowed one hit in eleven innings, he also walked ten! (I wonder what his pitch count was!)

Didn't seem to hurt his career any...

Lip

michned
09-18-2009, 08:09 PM
My Dad was born in 1921 and he always would talk about how great Ted Lyons was, and what a decent hitter he was (for a pitcher) and how he never got the recognition he deserved, but he thought it was mostly due to pitching on a lot of bad Sox teams in 20s, 30s, and 40s. Might be an oversimplification but I'm sure that must have been part of it.

LITTLE NELL
09-20-2009, 10:38 AM
I may be wrong but Luke Appling has not been honored with a statue either. If you are going to honor great Sox players with statues how can you leave out Lyons, Appling, Faber and Walsh, all in the HOF.

wassagstdu
09-20-2009, 11:16 AM
"In 21 Seasons with the White Sox, pitcher Ted Lyons won 260 games, faced both Ty Cobb and Ted Williams, hurled a no hitter, and pitched a 21-inning complete game loss."

Billy Pierce pitched 16 innings in August, 1959. After that he had a couple of ineffective starts and a stint on the DL. No doubt that contributed to Al Lopez' decision not to start Pierce in the WS. In fact that 16 inning outing may have ended his career as a great Sox pitcher. Even at the time, leaving Pierce in for 16 innings seemed like a really dumb move by the "great" Lopez.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL195908060.shtml

Lip Man 1
09-20-2009, 12:14 PM
Wassag:

According to Billy himself, he injured his hip earlier in the season and it had been bothering him all year. Pitching 16 innings wasn't the reason he went on the DL. He had the issue before he pitched that game.

And yes, Lopez was a "great" manager in every sense of the word. His record speaks for itself.

Lip

TheVulture
09-20-2009, 12:56 PM
To be fair, it must be much more difficult to pitch in today's game when every batter you face is in scoring position. You can't make any mistakes and you can't let up for a minute. I believe it was Satchel Paige who said he didn't start to pitch until someone reached second base.

SI1020
09-20-2009, 01:44 PM
Billy Pierce pitched 16 innings in August, 1959. After that he had a couple of ineffective starts and a stint on the DL. No doubt that contributed to Al Lopez' decision not to start Pierce in the WS. In fact that 16 inning outing may have ended his career as a great Sox pitcher. Even at the time, leaving Pierce in for 16 innings seemed like a really dumb move by the "great" Lopez.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL195908060.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL195908060.shtml)

Wassag:

According to Billy himself, he injured his hip earlier in the season and it had been bothering him all year. Pitching 16 innings wasn't the reason he went on the DL. He had the issue before he pitched that game.

And yes, Lopez was a "great" manager in every sense of the word. His record speaks for itself.

Lip First of all Billy Pierce was is and always will be my all time favorite White Sox player. I would not want to appear to be second guessing him. There is evidence that he was bothered by something in 1959. After starting off at 5-2 he had a long period of inconsistent pitching. It was his worst year on the mound for the Sox since an injury plagued 1954 season. Still his 16 inning game was his sixth strong start in his last 7 and he appeared to be back in form for the final pennant push. I have to believe that game aggravated his hip because he was ineffective the next two times and then placed on the DL. Coming off the DL he had three strong starts, but finished the season with two poor outings against the Tigers. He was shelved for mop up duties only in the 59 WS against the Dodgers. The decision was the worst ever by Lopez, and I still consider him the best manager the Sox ever had. Ironically the Sox may have lost the Series in the first game, despite an 11-0 blowout win. Early Wynn's shoulder tightened in that game and he was ineffective in his next two starts. So a lot of us Sox old timers will play the what if game concerning Pierce as long as we breathe. Interestingly I found this quote by the late Al Smith concerning Pierce and Lopez in the 59 WS. "We all knew why Al Lopez didn't pitch him, but we never told anyone and I won't say now. I will say that I thought he should have pitched. He'd been pitching all year, hadn't he?" So there you have it.

Regarding the OP and Ted Lyons, we'll probably never see that kind of stamina in a pitcher again. Lyons deserves extra credit for pitching on so many hopelessly lousy Sox teams, and he was greatly appreciated by Sox fans of his era. A statue or some kind of special recognition in his honor would be more than appropriate.