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The Immigrant
09-16-2009, 08:56 AM
I believe that Jermaine Dye is the best free agent signing in White Sox history. We wouldn't have won the World Series in 2005 without him. I have the utmost respect for him.

Having said that, with the White Sox still having at least a theoretical possibility of winning the division, it would be in the team's best interests to shut him down for the rest of the year. He is not helping the team either offensively or defensively and has been downright brutal at the plate.

Regardless of whether or not he is nursing an injury, he has no business being in the lineup right now.

The drop-off in his numbers over the last 3 months is staggering:

June 30 .295/.363/.570
July 31 .281/.357/.533
August 31 .262/.342/.478
Sept. 15 .249/.333/.452

For the month of August, his line was .189/.284/.267. He had three extra-base hits the entire month, despite playing in 24 games.

For the month of September, his line is .088/.225/.118. He has exactly 3 hits in 34 at-bats this month with 0 RBI.

He is hitless in his last 20 at-bats, yet he continues to bat in the middle of our lineup.

It's time for this madness to end.

kittle42
09-16-2009, 09:06 AM
I have to agree here. The numbers over what is now an extended period sure don't lie.

slavko
09-16-2009, 09:08 AM
But we have to play the veterans to put more butts in the seats.

hawkjt
09-16-2009, 09:16 AM
Last nite on that last at bat when he struck out on three pitches it was once again painfully clear that for whatever reason,he cannot catch up to a straight 91mph fastball right down the middle. Fouled off.

This is not a simple funk, or even slump, it is a complete collapse and a huge impediment to the offense with JD right smack in the middle of our best hitters going right now.
Right now, our hot hitters are Pods,AJ,PK and Alexei. Thats it. So you have JD,Rios colder than a witches breast right in the middle of those guys.
Ozzie needs to have Kotsay in rf vs every right hander,with PK at first,Carlos at DH,Rios in center for defense,and Pods in left.

If we had another alternative to Rios,then play him, but if it comes down to Rios vs JD, play the better defender because at the plate, it is a wash.

I hate that it has come to this with JD,but we have been waiting for him to pop out of it for over 2 months...that is enough to establish that he is probably never going to pop out of it this year. Sit him until their is a lefty on the mound...maybe a week off will bring back the bat speed.

voodoochile
09-16-2009, 09:20 AM
I disagree. He actually seems to be showing signs of coming out of it, IMO. Last night he got good wood on at least two pitches, but one went just foul and one he hit to straight away center.

Use Kotsay more in RF, fine, but leave Dye at DH for now.

Jimmy Piersall
09-16-2009, 09:22 AM
Hurts to see JD like this,but yeah,he needs to be benched.
As long as there's still a shot at this Oz needs to play his
best guys and JD just isn't one of those right now.

Rohan
09-16-2009, 09:26 AM
Something's definitely up with him. He's had that calf thing going on since last year.

That being said, i don't know who's a better option. Kotsay has been playing a ton, and Rios is in just as bad a funk as dye.

Chez
09-16-2009, 09:27 AM
I disagree. He actually seems to be showing signs of coming out of it, IMO. Last night he got good wood on at least two pitches, but one went just foul and one he hit to straight away center.

Use Kotsay more in RF, fine, but leave Dye at DH for now.

He also smoked two balls in Anaheim on Sunday. We need him to come around. He can't break out of this while sitting on the bench.

twentywontowin
09-16-2009, 09:29 AM
He definitely has to be playing hurt. If he is, he needs to man up and grab the bench. He's not doing us any favors out there right now.

That, or bat him ninth and let him work his way out of the slump.

ode to veeck
09-16-2009, 09:29 AM
He also smoked two balls in Anaheim on Sunday. We need him to come around. He can't break out of this while sitting on the bench.


His sac fly last night is a HR in any other park than Safeco (OK maybe old Comiskey too)

CWSpalehoseCWS
09-16-2009, 09:32 AM
I have the suspicion that ever since we got Rios he completely stopped caring or trying for that matter. Just my opinion.

voodoochile
09-16-2009, 09:55 AM
I have the suspicion that ever since we got Rios he completely stopped caring or trying for that matter. Just my opinion.

That makes no sense. If he thinks Rios is going to take his roster spot, he's playing for his next contract. If anything he'd want to have a monster close so he can get paid by someone else.

Marqhead
09-16-2009, 09:58 AM
I have the suspicion that ever since we got Rios he completely stopped caring or trying for that matter. Just my opinion.

If anyone should have been discouraged by the acquisition of Rios it would be Pods, and he continues to tear the cover off the ball so I don't agree with this at all.

Dye is struggling big time, maybe he's worried about his FA potential if he goes on the DL this late in the season. I don't know for sure, but it isn't good.

soxfanreggie
09-16-2009, 10:10 AM
I disagree. He actually seems to be showing signs of coming out of it, IMO. Last night he got good wood on at least two pitches, but one went just foul and one he hit to straight away center.

Use Kotsay more in RF, fine, but leave Dye at DH for now.

But with batting that poorly for that long, shouldn't we at least drop him in the order?


That, or bat him ninth and let him work his way out of the slump.

I agree with dropping him in the order. Right now though, needing to win games, I would rather see an OF of TCQ-Rios-Kotsay with Pods at DH.

voodoochile
09-16-2009, 10:15 AM
But with batting that poorly for that long, shouldn't we at least drop him in the order?



I agree with dropping him in the order. Right now though, needing to win games, I would rather see an OF of TCQ-Rios-Kotsay with Pods at DH.

He has been dropped. He's currently batting 6th. That's probably the best spot for him. Maybe 7th, but no lower because Ozzie likes speed guys in the 8 and 9 holes.

KMcMahon817
09-16-2009, 10:45 AM
I have the suspicion that ever since we got Rios he completely stopped caring or trying for that matter. Just my opinion.

I don't think this is the problem. If you watched the game on WGN last night, they showed a few different clips of him joking around and having a good time with Coop, Oz, and Joey. I don't think its that he doesn't care, but something is mightily wrong. I am just fine with Kotsay in right for now.

Lip Man 1
09-16-2009, 11:01 AM
An injury certainly may be a part of it but Ozzie has always gone to the extreme in playing it safe with players who have an injury. If JD has something wrong it seems out of character for Ozzie to keep sending him out there.

His contract situation has history behind it though...remember 2007, and remember how his numbers went up across the board right after he got his extension. He even acknowledged in the spring to the newspapers that it bothered him.

I think that is the case here. He's not trying to fail, it's probably subconscious, but he's bugged by not having a deal in place. I also agree Rios is probably bothering him too from a contract status, not personally towards him.

Bottom line, IF he's back (and that's a big if) it's for a lot, lot less than he thinks he's going to get.

I appreciate everything JD has done for the Sox, like with Thome a class, class guy...but I think his time has come, to leave.

Lip

ajismyhero
09-16-2009, 11:25 AM
I was hoping that the acquisition of Rios would give us a lot of flexibility in the OF, but unfortunately, the consistent hitter in our OF, Pods, is BRUTAL in the outfield. Rios, Quentin, and Dye all look terrible at the plate and we need 2 of them to snap out of it if we're going to give Detroit a run for their money. As one of the biggest BA supporters out there, I wasn't at all excited about Kotsay but have to admit he's looked pretty good at there. It seems no matter what, we're going to have at least 1 outfield spot played by someone who is hitting way below their potential.

hawkjt
09-16-2009, 11:56 AM
I disagree. He actually seems to be showing signs of coming out of it, IMO. Last night he got good wood on at least two pitches, but one went just foul and one he hit to straight away center.

Use Kotsay more in RF, fine, but leave Dye at DH for now.


I hope you are right because realistically, we do not have many other options. And yes, he did hit one ball hard last nite.
C'mon JD,we are all rooting for you cus you are a class act:smile:

JB98
09-16-2009, 12:37 PM
An injury certainly may be a part of it but Ozzie has always gone to the extreme in playing it safe with players who have an injury. If JD has something wrong it seems out of character for Ozzie to keep sending him out there.

His contract situation has history behind it though...remember 2007, and remember how his numbers went up across the board right after he got his extension. He even acknowledged in the spring to the newspapers that it bothered him.

I think that is the case here. He's not trying to fail, it's probably subconscious, but he's bugged by not having a deal in place. I also agree Rios is probably bothering him too from a contract status, not personally towards him.

Bottom line, IF he's back (and that's a big if) it's for a lot, lot less than he thinks he's going to get.

I appreciate everything JD has done for the Sox, like with Thome a class, class guy...but I think his time has come, to leave.

Lip


That presumes that Ozzie is aware that Dye is hurting. It's entirely possible Dye is hiding an injury from the staff to stay on the field.

I hate to see Dye struggle like this. He's accomplished a lot during his time with the Sox. Unfortunately, he's punching his ticket out of town right now.

twinsuck
09-16-2009, 01:03 PM
JD should be batting 10th.

Marqhead
09-16-2009, 01:21 PM
JD should be batting 10th.

10th? But there are only ni......oh ok, I see what you did there.

TheBigHurtST
09-16-2009, 03:55 PM
I agree with dropping him in the order. Right now though, needing to win games, I would rather see an OF of TCQ-Rios-Kotsay with Pods at DH.

I second that.

CWSpalehoseCWS
09-16-2009, 04:51 PM
That makes no sense. If he thinks Rios is going to take his roster spot, he's playing for his next contract. If anything he'd want to have a monster close so he can get paid by someone else.

I think he thought he wouldn't have to do that and that he was going to be back for sure next season, even though his contract was up. With Rios he realized the team may be moving on, which upset him. Maybe I shouldn't have said he gave up, instead that Rios is causing him to do too much or he is overwhelmed that he has to be productive.

Bob G
09-16-2009, 05:00 PM
There's not many games left and we're in a huge hole.

I think JD and Rios should never be in the lineup at the same time - we can't afford 2 almost automatic outs. Kotsay needs to play everyday, so does Pods, PK, and AJ. TCQ can also be rotated in.

Frater Perdurabo
09-16-2009, 07:35 PM
Rios, Quentin, and Dye all look terrible at the plate and we need 2 of them to snap out of it if we're going to give Detroit a run for their money.

I expect Rios and Quentin both to "progress to the mean" of their career averages in 2010. I expect Dye to be somewhere else in 2010.

A 2010 outfield of Pods - Rios - Quentin would be acceptable. Abreu - Rios - Quentin would be better, with Pods DH-ing.

Tragg
09-16-2009, 07:56 PM
A 2010 outfield of Pods - Rios - Quentin would be acceptable.
That would be awful.

An athletic RF is much-needed.

Hitmen77
09-16-2009, 09:00 PM
I believe that Jermaine Dye is the best free agent signing in White Sox history. We wouldn't have won the World Series in 2005 without him. I have the utmost respect for him.

Having said that, with the White Sox still having at least a theoretical possibility of winning the division, it would be in the team's best interests to shut him down for the rest of the year. He is not helping the team either offensively or defensively and has been downright brutal at the plate.

Regardless of whether or not he is nursing an injury, he has no business being in the lineup right now.

The drop-off in his numbers over the last 3 months is staggering:

June 30 .295/.363/.570
July 31 .281/.357/.533
August 31 .262/.342/.478
Sept. 15 .249/.333/.452

For the month of August, his line was .189/.284/.267. He had three extra-base hits the entire month, despite playing in 24 games.

For the month of September, his line is .088/.225/.118. He has exactly 3 hits in 34 at-bats this month with 0 RBI.

He is hitless in his last 20 at-bats, yet he continues to bat in the middle of our lineup.

It's time for this madness to end.

I completely agree. Dye and Rios have both pretty much been automatic outs. Are the Sox still going for it? If so, then don't put these two black holes in our lineup at the same time!

If the Sox are giving up and setting their sights for 2010 at this point, then I'd rather see more at bats from Flowers than see Dye hit under .100 in September.

oeo
09-16-2009, 09:08 PM
I expect Rios and Quentin both to "progress to the mean" of their career averages in 2010. I expect Dye to be somewhere else in 2010.

A 2010 outfield of Pods - Rios - Quentin would be acceptable. Abreu - Rios - Quentin would be better, with Pods DH-ing.

Pods and Quentin or Abreu and Quentin in the same outfield doesn't improve our outfield defense. In fact, both are probably worse.

Ward Hershberger
09-16-2009, 10:17 PM
Pods and Quentin or Abreu and Quentin in the same outfield doesn't improve our outfield defense. In fact, both are probably worse.

Abreu hitting 299, 94 RBI, 28 SB - and his "D" is better than anyone other than Rios - love to have him in the line-up every day

hawkjt
09-17-2009, 12:03 AM
Abreu hitting 299, 94 RBI, 28 SB - and his "D" is better than anyone other than Rios - love to have him in the line-up every day

More importantly, Abreu is hitting .366 with RISP.

hawkjt
09-17-2009, 12:04 AM
He also smoked two balls in Anaheim on Sunday. We need him to come around. He can't break out of this while sitting on the bench.


Congrats, JD did get two hits tonite. As did Rios...go figure, but still cannot get on the board cept for Gordo's solo shot...

oeo
09-17-2009, 12:22 AM
Abreu hitting 299, 94 RBI, 28 SB - and his "D" is better than anyone other than Rios - love to have him in the line-up every day

I wasn't talking about offensive production, I was clearly talking about defense. Abreu's "D" is terrible, probably better than only Pods. You move Quentin, who is an average, at best, left fielder to right field and then move Abreu who isn't a good defender to a position he's not all that familiar with. I would rather have Quentin-Rios-Dye in the outfield than Abreu-Rios-Quentin.

Our defense has to improve next year before the offense. We can't continue to shoot ourselves in the foot and expect to win. The outfield defense would be taking a step backward instead of a step forward with Abreu in the outfield.

Lip Man 1
09-17-2009, 12:42 AM
It's a hard decision to make... if you're going to bank your hopes on a pitching staff you have to have the people behind them who can actually catch the baseball, on the other side though when you have put up numbers like the Sox have in two of the past three years, with half their games in a hitters park, how can you not figure that offense has to be the key priority?

Just in 2009 the White Sox lost a number of games to pitchers with losing records and high ERA’s. In 2009 the White Sox lost a number of games to starting pitchers they never faced before. In 2009 the White Sox lost as of now, 13 games where they held an opponent to three runs or less. In 2009 the Sox had as of right now, 26 games where they scored one run…or less. They had as of right now, 59 games (or 40% of the schedule) where they scored three runs or less!

To say those are bad numbers would be a gross understatement.

I don't envy Kenny but that's why he makes the big bucks and gets the credit or blame depending on how things go.

Lip

oeo
09-17-2009, 12:51 AM
[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]It's a hard decision to make... if you're going to bank your hopes on a pitching staff you have to have the people behind them who can actually catch the baseball, on the other side though when you have put up numbers like the Sox have in two of the past three years, with half their games in a hitters park, how can you not figure that offense has to be the key priority?

The Cell is not a hitter's park, it's a homerun hitter's park. Considering we have no gaps to speak of in the outfield, and our infield isn't fast like Texas, it favors the pitcher. When the ball gets up into the air over the summer, however, it flies out.

For someone who keeps preaching an athletic team, I'm surprised you want Abreu. I understand Abreu has 28 stolen bases this year, but at 36, all it takes is a little tweak and he becomes a "base clogger."

Jeckle2000
09-17-2009, 01:32 AM
I will first state for the record that I was disappointed when Dye wasn't moved at the all star break. However I can't really be shocked that he wasn't traded considering that he has clause in his contract about his 12 million dollar option becoming guaranteed upon being moved.

As much as I would like to see Dye benched in favor of seeing what a younger OF'r in our system could do who would be a good candidate to be brought up? I can't think of a single one. The few bright prospects we have at that position are all at the lower levels.

Benching Dye won't do anything constructive (we've been out of the race for weeks anyway) and does nothing but take away his chance to build back up some free agent value with another team. The White Sox shouldn't do it.

soxfanreggie
09-17-2009, 03:24 AM
Benching Dye won't do anything constructive (we've been out of the race for weeks anyway) and does nothing but take away his chance to build back up some free agent value with another team. The White Sox shouldn't do it.

Certainly it's not like the roster expanded allowing teams to call up players to get some playing time.

If we're "out of it", start giving PK, AJ, TCQ, and especially Dye some time off. You don't have to completely bench Dye, but we can give some apppearances to other guys to see what they can do. We could also put him at DH and see more of what a Pods-Rios-TCQ OF looks like, in case that's what we have to use sometimes.

If we lose any more ground, it becomes the time to see Hudson and Torres see some innings, as well as give Flowers a chance to show what he has.

Jeckle2000
09-17-2009, 04:03 AM
Certainly it's not like the roster expanded allowing teams to call up players to get some playing time.

If we're "out of it", start giving PK, AJ, TCQ, and especially Dye some time off. You don't have to completely bench Dye, but we can give some apppearances to other guys to see what they can do. We could also put him at DH and see more of what a Pods-Rios-TCQ OF looks like, in case that's what we have to use sometimes.

If we lose any more ground, it becomes the time to see Hudson and Torres see some innings, as well as give Flowers a chance to show what he has.

Just out of curiosity what outfield prospect would you call up to get playing time in place of Jermaine Dye?
I don't see a single one that's worthy of a call up.

The Dude
09-17-2009, 08:45 AM
I believe that Jermaine Dye is the best free agent signing in White Sox history. We wouldn't have won the World Series in 2005 without him. I have the utmost respect for him.

Having said that, with the White Sox still having at least a theoretical possibility of winning the division, it would be in the team's best interests to shut him down for the rest of the year. He is not helping the team either offensively or defensively and has been downright brutal at the plate.

Regardless of whether or not he is nursing an injury, he has no business being in the lineup right now.

The drop-off in his numbers over the last 3 months is staggering:

June 30 .295/.363/.570
July 31 .281/.357/.533
August 31 .262/.342/.478
Sept. 15 .249/.333/.452

For the month of August, his line was .189/.284/.267. He had three extra-base hits the entire month, despite playing in 24 games.

For the month of September, his line is .088/.225/.118. He has exactly 3 hits in 34 at-bats this month with 0 RBI.

He is hitless in his last 20 at-bats, yet he continues to bat in the middle of our lineup.

It's time for this madness to end.

AGREED!!!!!!:gulp:

Lip Man 1
09-17-2009, 11:08 AM
OEO:

And where have I ever said that I wanted another 36 year old on the team?

Me thinks you are confusing me with someone else.

To me the top off season targets are in order:

1. Chone Figgins
2. Chone Figgins
3. Chone Figgins.

It all starts there...then Kenny can see what he may be able to do with the 5th starter spot and potentially another bat or two in the lineup.

Obviously Figgins helps you offensively but on defense many think he could win a Gold Glove for his play at 3rd this year. Assuming the Sox were to get him and keep Beckham there he could be a defensive upgrade at second over Getz / Nix. In the outfield he's an upgrade over Podsednik. How about an outfield from left to right of Quentin, Figgins and Rios. Not to shabby defensvely is it?

Lip

Nellie_Fox
09-17-2009, 01:41 PM
I confess to being a bit perplexed by the Figgins obsession. He's a nice player, but to read the posts about him around here you'd think that the Sox are absolutely doomed if they don't do whatever is necessary to get him.

dickallen15
09-17-2009, 01:47 PM
OEO:

And where have I ever said that I wanted another 36 year old on the team?

Me thinks you are confusing me with someone else.

To me the top off season targets are in order:

1. Chone Figgins
2. Chone Figgins
3. Chone Figgins.

It all starts there...then Kenny can see what he may be able to do with the 5th starter spot and potentially another bat or two in the lineup.

Obviously Figgins helps you offensively but on defense many think he could win a Gold Glove for his play at 3rd this year. Assuming the Sox were to get him and keep Beckham there he could be a defensive upgrade at second over Getz / Nix. In the outfield he's an upgrade over Podsednik. How about an outfield from left to right of Quentin, Figgins and Rios. Not to shabby defensvely is it?

Lip

Figgins hasn't played CF since 2006. The Angels thought so much of his defense they gave Gary Matthews Jr. $55 million. Figgins is a nice player, but he's played better than he has for a while during a contract year. He's supposed to not be much of a clubhouse guy. Plus fast guys into their 30's worry me. I have a feeling he's going to get a lot more money than he is utimately worth.

Waysouthsider
09-17-2009, 01:54 PM
30+ year old speedsters make me nervous...and I don't see Chone being a gold glover in Center...

I also think there is a serious lack of development of outfielders in this organization...what's up with this lack of balance between inf and out?

voodoochile
09-17-2009, 02:08 PM
I confess to being a bit perplexed by the Figgins obsession. He's a nice player, but to read the posts about him around here you'd think that the Sox are absolutely doomed if they don't do whatever is necessary to get him.

Doomed is a bit over the top... screwed? Stuffed? Hopeless? Those all probably work better...
:tongue:

Lip Man 1
09-17-2009, 02:26 PM
Actually Nellie there are other options than Figgins, Kenny could go back to trying to get Roberts or he could look into Matthews Jr. as he did before the start of the 07 season.

The Sox need a long term solution to the leadoff spot in the order. By 'long-term' I mean the next two to three seasons.

Podsednik is not the answer to that situation, not with his injury history in my opinion and Figgins is certainly better defensively in the outfield and just as fast.

Are the Sox 'doomed' (which I've never said by the way) without him? No...but the offense would be in much, much better shape with him.

Dick / Waysouth:

I never said he was a Gold Glover in center, I did say he was still better defensively than Podsednik in the outfield though, and if the Sox are looking to upgrade BOTH the offense AND help upgrade the defense, he is the answer.

Lip

Ward Hershberger
09-17-2009, 08:50 PM
I wasn't talking about offensive production, I was clearly talking about defense. Abreu's "D" is terrible, probably better than only Pods. You move Quentin, who is an average, at best, left fielder to right field and then move Abreu who isn't a good defender to a position he's not all that familiar with. I would rather have Quentin-Rios-Dye in the outfield than Abreu-Rios-Quentin.

Our defense has to improve next year before the offense. We can't continue to shoot ourselves in the foot and expect to win. The outfield defense would be taking a step backward instead of a step forward with Abreu in the outfield.

You have got to be kidding - Dye can't cover ground anymore and is as much a liability in the outfield as he is at the plate. Wha tmakes you think he's going to be anybetter next year - other than it would be hard for anyone to be worse - see that K just now?

GoSox2K3
09-17-2009, 08:56 PM
Dye and Rios a combined 0 for 11 with 5 Ks in today's game.

:thud::thud::thud::thud::thud:

GrandValleyBB10
09-17-2009, 09:05 PM
For those of you, like myself, that watch or attend just about every game it has gotten to the point where I laugh when I see dye in the lineup. Tonight is just another example of how far his game has aged/disappeared. The defense as some of you continue to preach in the outfield hasn't cost them the game, especially tonight. The sox have 10 hits and have walked about 10 as well. Thats 20 base runners to go along with a seattle error yet we have scored 3. Dye's at bats have not only been awful, but unproductive. 3 strikeouts, a pop out with 2 guys on base, and a few other lazy pop ups. With that being said, its not his fault, its #13 in the dugout. For coming into the league as a "small ball coach" he does none of that. With a struggeling hitter in rios with a leadoff man on in the 10th we elect not to bunt and ground into a double play. He has his most athletic team he has ever had and we cant but, we dont hit and run, we dont do a damn thing to move runners and move the defense around. Dye needs to find himself a new home next year, hopefully a national league team where he can bat against crappy pitching and find himself again. As he exits, so should ozzie. The two of them are awful, and make one bad decision or at bat after another. The young guys will step up and rios will be fine next year. Congrats jenks on another solid outing.

Ward Hershberger
09-17-2009, 09:09 PM
For those of you, like myself, that watch or attend just about every game it has gotten to the point where I laugh when I see dye in the lineup. Tonight is just another example of how far his game has aged/disappeared. The defense as some of you continue to preach in the outfield hasn't cost them the game, especially tonight. The sox have 10 hits and have walked about 10 as well. Thats 20 base runners to go along with a seattle error yet we have scored 3. Dye's at bats have not only been awful, but unproductive. 3 strikeouts, a pop out with 2 guys on base, and a few other lazy pop ups. With that being said, its not his fault, its #13 in the dugout. For coming into the league as a "small ball coach" he does none of that. With a struggeling hitter in rios with a leadoff man on in the 10th we elect not to bunt and ground into a double play. He has his most athletic team he has ever had and we cant but, we dont hit and run, we dont do a damn thing to move runners and move the defense around. Dye needs to find himself a new home next year, hopefully a national league team where he can bat against crappy pitching and find himself again. As he exits, so should ozzie. The two of them are awful, and make one bad decision or at bat after another. The young guys will step up and rios will be fine next year. Congrats jenks on another solid outing.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Ward Hershberger
09-17-2009, 09:10 PM
Dye and Rios a combined 0 for 11 with 5 Ks in today's game.

:thud::thud::thud::thud::thud:

Update: 0-12, but Dye's excellent Defence has kept us in the game

Dibbs
09-17-2009, 09:25 PM
Dye and Rios a combined 0 for 11 with 5 Ks in today's game.

:thud::thud::thud::thud::thud:

That is hard to believe. They actually made contact six times? I'm not even mad. I'm actually impressed.

Dibbs
09-17-2009, 09:29 PM
For those of you, like myself, that watch or attend just about every game it has gotten to the point where I laugh when I see dye in the lineup. Tonight is just another example of how far his game has aged/disappeared. The defense as some of you continue to preach in the outfield hasn't cost them the game, especially tonight. The sox have 10 hits and have walked about 10 as well. Thats 20 base runners to go along with a seattle error yet we have scored 3. Dye's at bats have not only been awful, but unproductive. 3 strikeouts, a pop out with 2 guys on base, and a few other lazy pop ups. With that being said, its not his fault, its #13 in the dugout. For coming into the league as a "small ball coach" he does none of that. With a struggeling hitter in rios with a leadoff man on in the 10th we elect not to bunt and ground into a double play. He has his most athletic team he has ever had and we cant but, we dont hit and run, we dont do a damn thing to move runners and move the defense around. Dye needs to find himself a new home next year, hopefully a national league team where he can bat against crappy pitching and find himself again. As he exits, so should ozzie. The two of them are awful, and make one bad decision or at bat after another. The young guys will step up and rios will be fine next year. Congrats jenks on another solid outing.

Dye should be gone. I would love to see a new manager myself. A new batting coach too.

Ward Hershberger
09-17-2009, 09:34 PM
Dye should be gone. I would love to see a new manager myself. A new batting coach too.

and take Lovie Smith with them to Venezuela

Great Defence by Dye and Rios were definitely the difference in tonight's game

soxinem1
09-17-2009, 09:56 PM
Hmmm.... If he is indeed hurt, maybe. However.....

This season is over, so benching him in favor of anyone else makes no sense, especially considering that Armando Rios younger brother Alex is doing absolutely nothing at the plate and is hitting like, uh, Armando Rios. So why should JD sit?

Dye does seem a bit off for several months now, and the occasional rests have done nothing.

I'd bat him second for a bit and see if it quickens his swing a little, sort of like another mid-30's hitter about 26 years ago.

Ward Hershberger
09-17-2009, 10:21 PM
Hmmm.... If he is indeed hurt, maybe. However.....

This season is over, so benching him in favor of anyone else makes no sense, especially considering that Armando Rios younger brother Alex is doing absolutely nothing at the plate and is hitting like, uh, Armando Rios. So why should JD sit?

Dye does seem a bit off for several months now, and the occasional rests have done nothing.

I'd bat him second for a bit and see if it quickens his swing a little, sort of like another mid-30's hitter about 26 years ago.

only problem with that is Fisk would give himself up for the team - all Dye wants to do is hit HR's

slavko
09-17-2009, 11:23 PM
Dye should be gone. I would love to see a new manager myself. A new batting coach too.

Where's a death panel when you need one?

Nellie_Fox
09-17-2009, 11:27 PM
Are the Sox 'doomed' (which I've never said by the way) without him? No...but the offense would be in much, much better shape with him.My post wasn't just aimed at you. It seems like thread after thread is filled with how important it is to get Figgins. No other player comes anywhere near the attention Figgins gets, and I just don't see him being that big of a deal. Like I said, a nice player, but certainly not good enough to get all the attention he does.

DirtySox
09-19-2009, 10:38 AM
Dye has dropped from a Type A to a Type B free agent with his 2nd half performance.

Nellie_Fox
09-20-2009, 12:29 AM
Dye has dropped from a Type A to a Type B free agent with his 2nd half performance.Since, as I understand it, how free-agent types are determined by the Elias Sports Bureau is not generally known, I assume this is your opinion?