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Lip Man 1
09-14-2009, 10:03 PM
I think this is an insightful piece from Mark Gonzales. Takes a hard look at things, offers quotes to back up some of his opinions. It's the second question in the mailbag. A very long answer for this type of forum:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/09/mark-gonzales-white-sox-mailbag-1.html

The thing that I've noticed about Gonzo is that he does not let his personal feelings enter into what he writes about the club, this is unusual for him to "reveal" for want of a better word, his opinions.

Good read.

Lip

1989
09-14-2009, 10:29 PM
I'm extremely worried about the offense going into the offseason.

Rios and Dye are black holes in the offense. And both have shown no signs of turning it around. Perhaps they are regressing as players. People have been saying to build our lineup around guys like TCQ, Rios, and TCM. Rios may never snap out of it and Quentin could just play like he is this year and then our lineup is back to square one. And that is assuming that none of our rookies fall into sophomore slumps, and Pods keeps his hot bat and stays healthy. There are going to be a lot of gambles this offseason. It's a little frightening.

Lip Man 1
09-14-2009, 10:32 PM
I thought that Dye would return next season as the DH, now honestly the way he's fallin' off the face of the Earth in the second half of the last two seasons, I think he's gone.

I don't think the Sox will be picking up that 12 million dollar option.

1989, it's a tough nut to crack. The Sox need new blood, good hitters in the middle of the lineup and those don't come around very often...at ANY price.

Lip

Noneck
09-14-2009, 10:38 PM
I wish Gonzales would have given some of his opinions on the bullpen.

Madvora
09-14-2009, 10:52 PM
I thought that Dye would return next season as the DH, now honestly the way he's fallin' off the face of the Earth in the second half of the last two seasons, I think he's gone.

I don't think the Sox will be picking up that 12 million dollar option.

1989, it's a tough nut to crack. The Sox need new blood, good hitters in the middle of the lineup and those don't come around very often...at ANY price.

Lip
When you mentioned 1989 I didn't realize you were responding to the poster above. The fact that you mentioned that and the new blood made me think about the organizational turnaround the Sox had at about 1989. That started the "These Kids Can Play" era. We already have some fresh blood pumping into the system and I think if we flush out some of the old stuff we could really have something special next year.

EDIT - actually I forgot that it started as "Who Are These Guys?" and later moved into "These Kids Can Play."

DSpivack
09-14-2009, 10:55 PM
When you mentioned 1989 I didn't realize you were responding to the poster above. The fact that you mentioned that and the new blood made me think about the organizational turnaround the Sox had at about 1989. That started the "These Kids Can Play" era. We already have some fresh blood pumping into the system and I think if we flush out some of the old stuff we could really have something special next year.

EDIT - actually I forgot that it started as "Who Are These Guys?" and later moved into "These Kids Can Play."

I thought These Kids Can Play was around 1999-2000.

Domeshot17
09-14-2009, 11:14 PM
the coaching staff still sits so bad to me. Joey Cora runs spring training, Every other word out of Ozzie's mouth is fundamentals or defense. When you preach something, and preach it endlessly, and you fail, you are not doing your job. I said it a few weeks ago, Ozzie seems to have lost his clubhouse. He is unable to motivate those guys. If that is the case, and he really has lost his grip, hes lost the only thing that makes him a good manager.

If the team starts out slow next year, continuing to blow leads and play piss poor defense, make bad choices running the bases, then Ozzie needs to go.

Tragg
09-14-2009, 11:44 PM
Joey Cora runs spring training,
Well, that explains a lot.
I'd like to see some new blood somewhere in the staff.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2009, 01:06 AM
The Kids Can Play and The Kids Can Play II were marketing slogans in the late 90's / early 00's.

Lip

Ranger
09-15-2009, 10:09 PM
the coaching staff still sits so bad to me. Joey Cora runs spring training, Every other word out of Ozzie's mouth is fundamentals or defense. When you preach something, and preach it endlessly, and you fail, you are not doing your job. I said it a few weeks ago, Ozzie seems to have lost his clubhouse. He is unable to motivate those guys. If that is the case, and he really has lost his grip, hes lost the only thing that makes him a good manager.

If the team starts out slow next year, continuing to blow leads and play piss poor defense, make bad choices running the bases, then Ozzie needs to go.

No, Ozzie doesn't need to go anywhere. Ozzie needs his players to put together better at-bats and no amount of "motivation" is going to make them do that.

Ozzie can say all he wants that he needs better fundamentals, but the only way to do that at this level is to acquire players that are already fundamentally sound when they arrive. Players are supposed to learn the basics before they leave the minors. They can teach "fundamentals" for 6 straight weeks every year, but it takes more than that. By the time these guys get to this level, they either know how to play fundamental baseball or they don't.

The Twins are good at it because their minor league development has been terrific, and the guys currently playing together have been familiar with each other for years because many of them came through the farm together.

Let's see what happens in a couple of years when Buddy Bell's development finally filters to the major league level. That will take some time.

Frater Perdurabo
09-15-2009, 10:36 PM
No, Ozzie doesn't need to go anywhere. Ozzie needs his players to put together better at-bats and no amount of "motivation" is going to make them do that.

Ozzie can say all he wants that he needs better fundamentals, but the only way to do that at this level is to acquire players that are already fundamentally sound when they arrive. Players are supposed to learn the basics before they leave the minors. They can teach "fundamentals" for 6 straight weeks every year, but it takes more than that. By the time these guys get to this level, they either know how to play fundamental baseball or they don't.

The Twins are good at it because their minor league development has been terrific, and the guys currently playing together have been familiar with each other for years because many of them came through the farm together.

Let's see what happens in a couple of years when Buddy Bell's development finally filters to the major league level. That will take some time.

I agree that the ability to "teach" fundamentals is difficult at the MLB level, but don't you think Ozzie could have them practice fundamentals as part of their regular pre-game practice rituals, in order to "stay sharp?"

Ranger
09-15-2009, 11:17 PM
I agree that the ability to "teach" fundamentals is difficult at the MLB level, but don't you think Ozzie could have them practice fundamentals as part of their regular pre-game practice rituals, in order to "stay sharp?"


They do. Regularly. Before batting practice. And how many different ways can you teach simple baseball fundamentals?

At this point, you either have it or you don't.

oeo
09-15-2009, 11:20 PM
the coaching staff still sits so bad to me. Joey Cora runs spring training, Every other word out of Ozzie's mouth is fundamentals or defense. When you preach something, and preach it endlessly, and you fail, you are not doing your job. I said it a few weeks ago, Ozzie seems to have lost his clubhouse. He is unable to motivate those guys. If that is the case, and he really has lost his grip, hes lost the only thing that makes him a good manager.

If the team starts out slow next year, continuing to blow leads and play piss poor defense, make bad choices running the bases, then Ozzie needs to go.

I feel like I've read this before.

Yada, yada, yada...then Ozzie needs to go.