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Lip Man 1
09-13-2009, 01:18 AM
Interesting item in the print edition of The Sporting News this week. (Peyton Manning on the cover - pg. 74) "Scouts Views:"

The question is: What must the White Sox do to revive outfielder Alex Rios' career?

A.L. scout: "Put a stick of dynamite under him? They need to do something to wake the guy up. He doesn't show any passion. I know the talent is there, but he sure does not seem to care if it shows."

N.L. scout: "I think that big contract Toronto gave him ruined him for the rest of his career. He doesn't have any drive. The same thing happened up there to Vernon Wells."

(gulp...)

Lip

HangWiffum
09-13-2009, 01:38 AM
sure looks like it's the case. he could at least show fake passion like paulie who likes to throw his bat down or sigh and roll his eyes when he wants us to think he "just missed one"

Lip Man 1
09-13-2009, 01:41 AM
Passed along The Sporting News' comments to one of the beat writers who responded back with some more comments from other scouts on Rios... just FYI:

A NL scout told me last month: "It will be a matter of Ozzie getting this guy to play."

Another scout told me "he's a hitting coach killer."

Lip

Nellie_Fox
09-13-2009, 01:58 AM
We'd better hope the scouts are wrong and he can turn it around, because what we're seeing now is horrible, and the Sox are stuck with his contract. No one is going to take him off their hands.

That's the most awkward, uncomfortable looking batting stance I can remember.

MrX
09-13-2009, 02:01 AM
Another scout told me "he's a hitting coach killer."


Then he'll be welcomed here with open arms:D:

doublem23
09-13-2009, 02:25 AM
Then he'll be welcomed here with open arms:D:

He'll be worth every cent of that contract if he can run Greg Walker out of town.

oeo
09-13-2009, 02:40 AM
We know Ozzie won't stand for his crap. So either he's going to get Rios motivated and he will become the player he's had the potential of becoming, or Ozzie is going to rub him the wrong way and we'll have to eat his contract. Let's hope it's the former.

That said, I'm giving him a clean slate next year.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-13-2009, 02:56 AM
That said, I'm giving him a clean slate next year.

That's all we can do...we have to chalk this year up as a bad year for him and hope he somehow figures out how to hit next year.

munchman33
09-13-2009, 03:44 AM
I doubt he can continue to have that kind of attitude under a guy like Ozzie. It's only a matter of time before he's riding him every day.

The irony of the situation is that if he doesn't turn it around, we wound up with a really expensive version of Brian Anderson.

stevemcstud
09-13-2009, 04:02 AM
sure looks like it's the case. he could at least show fake passion like paulie who likes to throw his bat down or sigh and roll his eyes when he wants us to think he "just missed one"

Yes... because Paul is faking passion by hitting .280+ 25+ HR and 80+ RBI so far. If that's faking passion I wish the other half of our line up would "fake" passion.

soxfan1965
09-13-2009, 04:44 AM
The irony of the situation is that if he doesn't turn it around, we wound up with a really expensive version of Brian Anderson. At least Brian Anderson doesn't close his eyes before catching a fly ball and dropping it. Really, I hope Rios works hard in the off season to have a successful career - Sox don't need another bad contract that drains ability to get good free agents or paying the good performers on the team. Or else maybe KW can get Rios to reduce his salary - they do it in the NFL, why not MLB?

kufram
09-13-2009, 05:44 AM
I think that Rios is a big time talent who thinks that talent alone will be enough to carry him. The really good players have the tools but, just as importantly, have the drive to give the game everything they have mentally. Rios certainly doesn't do that at this point. Sometimes I'm not sure he realizes that he's at the plate!

Ozzie may be the guy to get the fire going. If he is then Rios could be a BIG factor for us.

Johnny Mostil
09-13-2009, 07:43 AM
Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but the paragraph on Rios at http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/09/oz_being_oz.html seems appropriate here . . .

soxinem1
09-13-2009, 08:05 AM
He'll be worth every cent of that contract if he can run Greg Walker out of town.

No he won't. That will mean he's a colossal failure of a player and a huge, costly liability.

Like Walker or not, Ozzie needs to be the one to motivate this guy, and KW should have known this before he claimed him.

The Dude
09-13-2009, 09:36 AM
Then he'll be welcomed here with open arms:D:

:rolling: So very true! You go Alex, do your thing...

DumpJerry
09-13-2009, 09:44 AM
Or else maybe KW can get Rios to reduce his salary - they do it in the NFL, why not MLB?
NFL =/= guaranteed contracts. MLB= guaranteed contracts.

southside rocks
09-13-2009, 10:08 AM
I have heard similar things about Rios -- the knock on him is that he has "no heart" and that he appears to be more interested in his after-game activities and his Bentley than the game.

That's going to have to change if he stays and plays in Chicago, or else he'll hear fan feedback that makes Milton Bradley's day look like a round of big hugs.

Danielgosox38
09-13-2009, 10:15 AM
I hope that he gets it together. He doesn't look like he gives a **** out there. The way he swings the bat, it's like he is just waving at the ball with the bat. Does anyone else get what I am trying to say about how he swings the bat? It's hard to explain. He just seems to just wave aimlessly without even trying really. That being said, if any manager can get him going.. It's Ozzie.

Ron Karkovice
09-13-2009, 10:56 AM
Next year Rios' over/under:

.269/20/75

Red Barchetta
09-13-2009, 10:58 AM
That's the most awkward, uncomfortable looking batting stance I can remember.

That's the first thing I thought after watching him a few games. There are so many little things that could go wrong during his preparation to hit. I can't see how he could be balanced enough to hit consistently.

It's too bad because I would have killed to have his speed when I was younger! In Rios case, I think he is a great, natural athlete that they are still trying to teach baseball to. I'm afraid we might have gotten a faster, .240 hitting Brian Anderson for a lot more money!

slavko
09-13-2009, 11:04 AM
That's the first thing I thought after watching him a few games. There are so many little things that could go wrong during his preparation to hit. I can't see how he could be balanced enough to hit consistently.

It's too bad because I would have killed to have his speed when I was younger! In Rios case, I think he is a great, natural athlete that they are still trying to teach baseball to. I'm afraid we might have gotten a faster, .240 hitting Brian Anderson for a lot more money!


.240 is in the rear view mirror and fading fast. .240 is what we can hope for next year if we can straighten him out.

Ron Karkovice
09-13-2009, 11:08 AM
.240 is in the rear view mirror and fading fast. .240 is what we can hope for next year if we can straighten him out.

Hopefully Kenny can say something to him to ensure that he has a helluva offseason in training and getting ready for next year.

voodoochile
09-13-2009, 11:22 AM
.240 is in the rear view mirror and fading fast. .240 is what we can hope for next year if we can straighten him out.

He wasn't that bad in Toronto. He is just in a horrible slump with an OPS around .400 since he came to Chicago. It's still been less than 100 AB though, so maybe that means he'll get redhot sometime in the next few weeks...

DumpJerry
09-13-2009, 11:27 AM
http://www.empireonline.com/images/features/100greatestcharacters/photos/21.jpg
The soldiers are paid, the rebels aren't.

#1swisher
09-13-2009, 12:20 PM
sure looks like it's the case. he could at least show fake passion like paulie who likes to throw his bat down or sigh and roll his eyes when he wants us to think he "just missed one"

That's a good one...Paulie said a few weeks ago "it's hard to stay motivated"

soxyess
09-13-2009, 12:27 PM
I put little trust in these so called "scouts" that many of these sports writers are using in their columns to manufacture credibility to their own opinions. Scouts aren't concerned with a player's "emotion", they are concerned with their mechanics, and tendencies. When I read these columns where the writer states " I spoke to some scouts", or " scouts have said", I have difficulty believing the subsequent information.

That being said, Rios is in a major slump. He is not this bad of a hitter, and I know he will get better. He has switched teams, and for a while he was constantly moved between CF and RF. That never helps a player. Leave him in CF and let him play. His defense in CF has been great, and that a lone makes us a better team. I do believe he has ben pressing, and since he was acquired he has placed the burden of getting this team to the playoffs on him. He will get it together next year. Especially if the Sox surround him with some better hitting talent.

Red Barchetta
09-13-2009, 12:29 PM
That's a good one...Paulie said a few weeks ago "it's hard to stay motivated"

I will never understand how any professional athlete cannot stay motivated after being paid millions of dollars to play a game. To say something like that publically to a working-class fan base is really stupid. Hell, at least be selfish and try to pad your stats or achieve some personal goals. I can understand how frustrating it must be to play for team that is 20 games out in August like the Pirates or Nationals, however there should always be something to play for, the least of which being professional pride...:mad:

russ99
09-13-2009, 12:48 PM
We know Ozzie won't stand for his crap. So either he's going to get Rios motivated and he will become the player he's had the potential of becoming, or Ozzie is going to rub him the wrong way and we'll have to eat his contract. Let's hope it's the former.

That said, I'm giving him a clean slate next year.

Rios has been in a funk all year. I don't expect that to change until next year. But I think Ozzie has a good chance to get him straight next spring when they can start fresh and there won't be the pressure of a pennant race.

If I ran the Sox, I'd stop all attempts to adjust his swing and Walker trying different things. He's obviosly had way too much of that this year both here and in Toronto. He'll need to find a comfort level at the plate on his own, before coaching can have any affect.

hawkjt
09-13-2009, 02:02 PM
When guys are in deep funks like Rios and JD ,you wonder if they can even square it up in batting practice?

I agree with Rios tippy toes stance being awkward and off balance.
I think most athletes have pride and do not want to be embarrassed. Does anyone really think Rios would rather go 2 for 80 than hit .400?
I think it is a downward spiral that starts when he slumped intially, then he tried harder, and trying harder never works in hitting.

I am still thinking he could break out in the last 19 games.

PatK
09-13-2009, 03:16 PM
I agree with everyone who's said something looks bad about his stance.

Plus, he's slumping. It's also obvious that he's pressing, which only prolongs a slump.

Ozzie already commented on his performance.

I have confidence he'll return to his career norms.

Remember, not all athletes have the ability to rise to the occasion. Rios was brought in and a lot of people expected him to be an instant solution to the teams CF problems. He might just have a confidence problem with trying to live up to those expectations at the moment, and slumping doesn't help.

Brian26
09-13-2009, 03:31 PM
In 90 ABs for the Sox so far, he only has five extra base hits: four doubles and a HR.

slavko
09-13-2009, 03:39 PM
Hopefully Kenny can say something to him to ensure that he has a helluva offseason in training and getting ready for next year.

Sort of like when someone was a freshman in Algebra I and the teacher says to him "I hope you do better when you take Algebra I again next year."

TDog
09-13-2009, 04:08 PM
NFL =/= guaranteed contracts. MLB= guaranteed contracts.

I don't know details about Rios' contract, and there are some points of the current collective bargaining agreement on which I am not up to date, But if Rios is not out of options, ti might be possible to send him to AAA. That would have a potential of relieving the Sox of his contract burden, as I understand things. If Rios were to refuse assignment, he would void his contract, and the Sox would be off the hook. Alternatively, hitting the road in a bus from Charlotte would might light a fire under Mr. Rios.

It doesn't take a scout's credentials to see that Rios lacks passion, that he is playing well-below his potential. He may have been a player who needed a change of scenery and the motivation of a divisional race to inspire better play, but coming to the White Sox (when the race was a lot closer), didn't seem to help.

It probably won't be possible to trade Rios in the offseason, even in a Nick Swisher "just get him the hell away from our team" sort of deal. The Sox might end up having to eat his silly contract, and if that's the case, I would rather see him wasting space on the Charlotte roster than on the end of the bench, outright release or a trade that includes money from the Sox to pay his salary.

Right now, Kotsay is a better hitter and a better defensive center fielder. Right now Wise is probably a better hitter and a better defensive center fielder.

I was optimistic when the White Sox picked up Rios, but he appears to have no interest in playing baseball for the White Sox. That has to change or Rios' status with the team has to change.

Daver
09-13-2009, 04:19 PM
I don't know details about Rios' contract, and there are some points of the current collective bargaining agreement on which I am not up to date, But if Rios is not out of options, ti might be possible to send him to AAA. That would have a potential of relieving the Sox of his contract burden, as I understand things.

Rios is signed to a Major League contract, he is guaranteed that money no matter what level in the White Sox system he plays at. Even if they were to DFA him they would have to pay the balance of the contract, unless he were to sign with another team, then it would the balance of the contract minus the amount he is making for the team he signs with.

TDog
09-13-2009, 04:44 PM
Rios is signed to a Major League contract, he is guaranteed that money no matter what level in the White Sox system he plays at. Even if they were to DFA him they would have to pay the balance of the contract, unless he were to sign with another team, then it would the balance of the contract minus the amount he is making for the team he signs with.

I understand he is guaranteed the money unless he breaches his contract. But if he can be sent to Charlotte and he refused to report, he would be in breach of his contract, unless he is out of options or his contract specifically forbids minor-league reassignment. This is not without precedent.

I think my post was quite clear. I understand that releasing him would mean eating his contract. But as much as the White Sox have to pay him, playing him in center only compounds the problem.

Daver
09-13-2009, 04:52 PM
I understand he is guaranteed the money unless he breaches his contract. But if he can be sent to Charlotte and he refused to report, he would be in breach of his contract, unless he is out of options or his contract specifically forbids minor-league reassignment. This is not without precedent.

I think my post was quite clear. I understand that releasing him would mean eating his contract. But as much as the White Sox have to pay him, playing him in center only compounds the problem.

He has no options, he has the ML service time in to do away with them, and to have the right to refuse a demotion for anything other than rehab purposes.

TDog
09-13-2009, 05:01 PM
He has no options, he has the ML service time in to do away with them, and to have the right to refuse a demotion for anything other than rehab purposes.

In that case, the only thing to do is stick him at the end of the bench, behind Wise.

southside rocks
09-13-2009, 05:29 PM
In that case, the only thing to do is stick him at the end of the bench, behind Wise.


Pay him $10M a year to ride the bench?

That is not a realistic option.

How will he come out of his slump if he's not playing? Isn't the idea to have him perform up to his potential? I don't see how benching him accomplishes that.

TDog
09-13-2009, 05:38 PM
Pay him $10M a year to ride the bench?

That is not a realistic option.

How will he come out of his slump if he's not playing? Isn't the idea to have him perform up to his potential? I don't see how benching him accomplishes that.

Dye is in a slump.

I don't believe Rios is in a slump. I believe he has no desire to play baseball. The Blue Jays saw that. Now the White Sox are stuck with him. Sitting him on the bench huts the team less than playing him does.

Jaime Navarro got paid a lot of money. But he would have helped the team more by being the last guy in the bullpen.

Ron Karkovice
09-13-2009, 05:40 PM
Sort of like when someone was a freshman in Algebra I and the teacher says to him "I hope you do better when you take Algebra I again next year."

that student better be motivated to not fail it again!

HangWiffum
09-13-2009, 05:40 PM
Is anyone else tired of seeing the word "slump"and white sox or their players in the same sentence? Its almost as common as "Mark Prior" and "DL"

southside rocks
09-13-2009, 05:43 PM
Dye is in a slump.

I don't believe Rios is in a slump. I believe he has no desire to play baseball. The Blue Jays saw that. Now the White Sox are stuck with him. Sitting him on the bench huts the team less than playing him does.

Jaime Navarro got paid a lot of money. But he would have helped the team more by being the last guy in the bullpen.

Well, that's a pretty serious accusation, or allegation, or whatever. I don't think that any fan is in a position to know that for sure; the White Sox management would be in a position to know that, and if it were true, they should get rid of Rios, not park him in a corner of the dugout like a crash-test dummy or one of Nick Swisher's blowup dolls.

But I would want a lot more proof that Rios "has no desire to play baseball" than just the fact that he can't buy a hit lately. In a slump, every player looks flat and can appear to not care.

hi im skot
09-13-2009, 05:55 PM
The fact that he's already thinking about next year is concerning.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/09/whats_still_wrong_with_rios_le.html

This guy is a ****ing head case.

guillensdisciple
09-13-2009, 05:58 PM
My scouty sense says that this guy does not have a ball sack.

GlassSox
09-13-2009, 06:12 PM
The fact that he's already thinking about next year is concerning.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/09/whats_still_wrong_with_rios_le.html

This guy is a ****ing head case.

Thanks for the link. He's hoping the off season fixes his problem? :scratch:

mmmmmbeeer
09-13-2009, 06:28 PM
I don't think you can really question desire....he busts his hump in the OF. If he didn't give a damn, he wouldn't play solid D. Players get in slumps like this, think back to Paulie's dismal slumps, look at JD this year, TCQ this year....these things happen and you look miserable when they do. Rios is in the unfortunate position of having a horrible slump in front of all new fans who haven't really seen him succeed with any regularity.

Also, these same "scouts" have said that Rios gained his so-called laziness from Vernon Wells, who is a guy who really doesn't care. Give Alex some time to start playing with guys who go about the business like professionals again. Let him spend some time around winners, veterans who think that a championship can make or break a career regardless of personal #'s.

I also have no issue with him saying he thinks the offseason will cure his slump. I like the clean slate approach...he's in a deep funk and sometimes you just need a break to clear your head and get back to basics. He's making a lot of money which you could argue means he can't afford breaks to clear his head, but he's still a human being. We all need a break when we get in a very deep hole be it professionally or personally.

Danielgosox38
09-13-2009, 06:33 PM
This might be a trade that comes back to bite KW in the ass. Big time.

Daver
09-13-2009, 06:40 PM
This might be a trade that comes back to bite KW in the ass. Big time.

Yeah, Kenny gave up a ton of talent to get this guy.

Danielgosox38
09-13-2009, 06:43 PM
Yeah, Kenny gave up a ton of talent to get this guy.


I'm talking about the money we are giving him. I meant waiver claim.

soxfanreggie
09-13-2009, 06:44 PM
It could come back to bite him, but let's hope like heck it doesn't. Hopefully he has a productive offseason and works through this thing.

HangWiffum
09-13-2009, 06:50 PM
He better produce. He's getting paid a ton of cash that could be used to fill a bunch of other holes on this team.

Hitmen77
09-13-2009, 09:32 PM
This contract could become an albatross for the Sox for years to come. The Blue Jays gave him away for nothing. That almost never happens. They didn't even squeeze one low ceiling prospect from the Sox.

I wonder if KW really expected to get stuck with this big contract. Perhaps he made the waiver claim to block another team and expected the Blue Jays would pull him back off waivers once the Sox said no to any requested prospects. Instead, Toronto unexpectedly said "He's yours!!!!"

Brian26
09-13-2009, 10:32 PM
I wonder if KW really expected to get stuck with this big contract. Perhaps he made the waiver claim to block another team and expected the Blue Jays would pull him back off waivers once the Sox said no to any requested prospects. Instead, Toronto unexpectedly said "He's yours!!!!"

It's entirely possible Rios has been up on Kenny's "big-board" for a few years. This was his chance of finally nabbing him without going through the free agent courting process ala Torii Hunter.

Oblong
09-13-2009, 11:20 PM
About the contract and the minors....

If Rios is out of options, I don't know if he is, then that means the Sox can only send him to the minors if two conditions are met:

if he clears waivers and he accepts it. If he doesn't clear waivers then another team does just what the Sox did. Take on his contract.

If he clears waivers then there is some stipulation where veteran players can refuse the assignment. (Post FA players?)

If he qualifies for that and does refuse that then he voids his contract.

I know all of this because it came up in discussions with Dontrelle Willis. Regrettably he accepted all of his assignments. I don't know if he went through waivers/options or if it were just rehab assignments though. But it was discssed.

GoGoCrede
09-13-2009, 11:35 PM
Dye is in a slump.

I don't believe Rios is in a slump. I believe he has no desire to play baseball. The Blue Jays saw that. Now the White Sox are stuck with him. Sitting him on the bench huts the team less than playing him does.

Jaime Navarro got paid a lot of money. But he would have helped the team more by being the last guy in the bullpen.

TDog, I like you, but this seems pretty presumptuous. We have no idea how he actually feels about all this. And even if he wasn't overly passionate about the game, if he gave us results, it wouldn't matter. Not every player lives for the game. Give him another year, unless you want to trot Wise out there again (I like Wise, but Rios is obviously the better player).

Lillian
09-13-2009, 11:58 PM
I posted this on Soxtalk.com, and thought it relevant to this discussion:

This entire Rios issue may be even bigger than suggested in this thread. I'm sure that K.W. expected him to turn his subpar season around after getting a fresh start in a new city. Unfortunately, not only has that not happened, but he has completely fallen on his face. This not only has likely killed our chances for post season this year, but it brings into question a few other major concerns for next year.

If he could have been expected to produce like his career numbers, he would have filled a couple of holes for the Sox. Obviously, he solves the defensive problem in CF. Moreover, he allows Pods to move to left, where Scotty is not a liability. Additionally, Rios would have provided more speed, another stolen base threat, and lots of extra basehits. His production over his previous 3 seasons averages 44 doubles, 7 triples and 24 stolen bases over a full 162 game campaign. That production coupled with his near .300 average could provide another solid offensive player at the top of the order, perhaps even in the number two hole. That would allow Beckham to bat a little deeper into the heart of the order.

A productive Rios would have eliminated the need for K. W. to consider acquiring Figgins. He could have tried to sign Abreu this off season, and the offense would have been set. With a lineup of Pods, a productive Rios, Quentin, Abreu, Beckham, Konerko, A. J., Ramirez and Getz (Nix) this team would have a great balance of speed, power, decent average and even acceptable OBP. However, if Rios is going to be an offensive bust, this team will face a lot of challenges to get ready for next year. The way he has been hitting, he is a number 9 hitter. That in turn means Beckham probably has to stay at the second spot in the lineup. That further means that they will be a little short on power. Adding only Abreu would not provide enough offense to replace both Dye and Thome. The Sox would need to consider other personnel changes, and likely a lot more money.

I'll bet that Kenny is very upset, and a little worried. It's one thing for us to calmly proclaim our confidence that Rios will get back on track next year. Unfortunately, Kenny doesn't have that luxury. Now he will have to consider other moves. Moreover Rios' huge contract will constrain any such other possibilities. What a shame. Rios could really have solved a lot of problems, but so far this looks like a big mistake, which also has to weigh heavily on our GM. It certainly isn't his fault, and I hope that fans will place the blame squarely where it belongs if Rios fails to produce.

Brian26
09-14-2009, 12:03 AM
I posted this on Soxtalk.com, and thought it relevant to this discussion:

This entire Rios issue may be even bigger than suggested in this thread. I'm sure that K.W. expected him to turn his subpar season around after getting a fresh start in a new city. Unfortunately, not only has that not happened, but he has completely fallen on his face. This not only has likely killed our chances for post season this year, but it brings into question a few other major concerns for next year.

If he could have been expected to produce like his career numbers, he would have filled a couple of holes for the Sox. Obviously, he solves the defensive problem in CF. Moreover, he allows Pods to move to left, where Scotty is not a liability. Additionally, Rios would have provided more speed, another stolen base threat, and lots of extra basehits. His production over his previous 3 seasons averages 44 doubles, 7 triples and 24 stolen bases over a full 162 game campaign. That production coupled with his near .300 average could provide another solid offensive player at the top of the order, perhaps even in the number two hole. That would allow Beckham to bat a little deeper into the heart of the order.

A productive Rios would have eliminated the need for K. W. to consider acquiring Figgins. He could have tried to sign Abreu this off season, and the offense would have been set. With a lineup of Pods, a productive Rios, Quentin, Abreu, Beckham, Konerko, A. J., Ramirez and Getz (Nix) this team would have a great balance of speed, power, decent average and even acceptable OBP. However, if Rios is going to be an offensive bust, this team will face a lot of challenges to get ready for next year. The way he has been hitting, he is a number 9 hitter. That in turn means Beckham probably has to stay at the second spot in the lineup. That further means that they will be a little short on power. Adding only Abreu would not provide enough offense to replace both Dye and Thome. The Sox would need to consider other personnel changes, and likely a lot more money.

I'll bet that Kenny is very upset, and a little worried. It's one thing for us to calmly proclaim our confidence that Rios will get back on track next year. Unfortunately, Kenny doesn't have that luxury. Now he will have to consider other moves. Moreover Rios' huge contract will constrain any such other possibilities. What a shame. Rios could really have solved a lot of problems, but so far this looks like a big mistake, which also has to weigh heavily on our GM. It certainly isn't his fault, and I hope that fans will place the blame squarely where it belongs if Rios fails to produce.

That's a great post. In a move that should have filled a gaping hole in CF and really put the Sox over the top to make a run this year (all the while taking on massive payroll, something that every Reinsdorf-hating Sox fan claims never happens), Kenny really is being backed into an awful situation for the off-season. I almost feel sorry for him.

Scottiehaswheels
09-14-2009, 12:09 AM
Eh, I have a feeling Rios will earn come-back player of the year award next year.

oeo
09-14-2009, 12:28 AM
This contract could become an albatross for the Sox for years to come. The Blue Jays gave him away for nothing. That almost never happens. They didn't even squeeze one low ceiling prospect from the Sox.

I wonder if KW really expected to get stuck with this big contract. Perhaps he made the waiver claim to block another team and expected the Blue Jays would pull him back off waivers once the Sox said no to any requested prospects. Instead, Toronto unexpectedly said "He's yours!!!!"

Kenny said they were working on a deal before the trading deadline that never materialized.

There's nothing we can do but hope for the best. Kenny has to assume he will come back next year, otherwise we will be wasting resources that need to be spent elsewhere. Rios is obviously extremely talented and has translated that to success in the past, so let's hope we can get him motivated and back to that level.

All this said, Rios is mostly just in a massive slump. I would take what he did in Toronto this year, right now. Munch hit the nail on the head when he said Rios is in the unfortunate position of slumping before anyone here has seen him have success on a regular basis.

tsoxman
09-14-2009, 04:48 AM
I posted this on Soxtalk.com, and thought it relevant to this discussion:

This entire Rios issue may be even bigger than suggested in this thread. I'm sure that K.W. expected him to turn his subpar season around after getting a fresh start in a new city. Unfortunately, not only has that not happened, but he has completely fallen on his face. This not only has likely killed our chances for post season this year, but it brings into question a few other major concerns for next year.

If he could have been expected to produce like his career numbers, he would have filled a couple of holes for the Sox. Obviously, he solves the defensive problem in CF. Moreover, he allows Pods to move to left, where Scotty is not a liability. Additionally, Rios would have provided more speed, another stolen base threat, and lots of extra basehits. His production over his previous 3 seasons averages 44 doubles, 7 triples and 24 stolen bases over a full 162 game campaign. That production coupled with his near .300 average could provide another solid offensive player at the top of the order, perhaps even in the number two hole. That would allow Beckham to bat a little deeper into the heart of the order.

A productive Rios would have eliminated the need for K. W. to consider acquiring Figgins. He could have tried to sign Abreu this off season, and the offense would have been set. With a lineup of Pods, a productive Rios, Quentin, Abreu, Beckham, Konerko, A. J., Ramirez and Getz (Nix) this team would have a great balance of speed, power, decent average and even acceptable OBP. However, if Rios is going to be an offensive bust, this team will face a lot of challenges to get ready for next year. The way he has been hitting, he is a number 9 hitter. That in turn means Beckham probably has to stay at the second spot in the lineup. That further means that they will be a little short on power. Adding only Abreu would not provide enough offense to replace both Dye and Thome. The Sox would need to consider other personnel changes, and likely a lot more money.

I'll bet that Kenny is very upset, and a little worried. It's one thing for us to calmly proclaim our confidence that Rios will get back on track next year. Unfortunately, Kenny doesn't have that luxury. Now he will have to consider other moves. Moreover Rios' huge contract will constrain any such other possibilities. What a shame. Rios could really have solved a lot of problems, but so far this looks like a big mistake, which also has to weigh heavily on our GM. It certainly isn't his fault, and I hope that fans will place the blame squarely where it belongs if Rios fails to produce.
Yes, it is up to the players to produce, but sorry, the warning signs were there for Rios, big time. Kenny gambled and chose to ignore them. To say that it will not be his (Kenny's) fault if this thing blows up is ridiculous.

Craig Grebeck
09-14-2009, 05:43 AM
You guys are really embarrassing sometimes.

Yes, Rios looks absolutely lost. Hopefully he can re-work his swing (kinda like Nick Swisher has done this season) and be the player he once was. Proclaiming this a mistake already or saying you feel sorry for Kenny is ridiculous.

Lillian
09-14-2009, 08:26 AM
Yes, it is up to the players to produce, but sorry, the warning signs were there for Rios, big time. Kenny gambled and chose to ignore them. To say that it will not be his (Kenny's) fault if this thing blows up is ridiculous.

The signs weren't exactly pointing to anything like what has happened to Rios since his acquisition. Afterall, he was on a pace to produce 35 doubles, 20 homers, 90 RBI's, and around 28 stolen bases while almost never getting caught. Moreover that production could have been expected to improve, owing to a new environment with a more supportive fan base, and an opportunity to participate in meaningful late season games. I don't see how a GM can be expected to anticipate that the guy would just implode.

MisterB
09-14-2009, 11:19 AM
Moreover that production could have been expected to improve, owing to a new environment with a more supportive fan base, and an opportunity to participate in meaningful late season games.

:roflmao:

C'mon, Sox fans would ride Mother Theresa out of town on a rail if her production dropped off for a couple of weeks.

spawn
09-14-2009, 11:21 AM
:roflmao:

C'mon, Sox fans would ride Mother Theresa out of town on a rail if her production dropped off for a couple of weeks.
A "couple of weeks" is being generous.

voodoochile
09-14-2009, 11:23 AM
A "couple of weeks" is being generous.

Yeah, but it's still around 100 total PA total at the moment. It's a bad slump, but extrapolating that it's a trend seems just a bit early...

spawn
09-14-2009, 11:26 AM
Yeah, but it's still around 100 total PA total at the moment. It's a bad slump, but extrapolating that it's a trend seems just a bit early...
No, I meant that riding someone out on a rail after a couple of weeks in being generous. Usually, Sox fans give a player a couple of games before they start bitching about how bad he is. I'm throwing out Rios' time here with the Sox to end the year. I want him to come back next season ready to go. I still like the deal.

voodoochile
09-14-2009, 11:31 AM
No, I meant that riding someone out on a rail after a couple of weeks in being generous. Usually, Sox fans give a player a couple of games before they start bitching about how bad he is. I'm throwing out Rios' time here with the Sox to end the year. I want him to come back next season ready to go. I still like the deal.

:tiphat:

beasly213
09-14-2009, 11:33 AM
No, I meant that riding someone out on a rail after a couple of weeks in being generous. Usually, Sox fans give a player a couple of games before they start bitching about how bad he is. I'm throwing out Rios' time here with the Sox to end the year. I want him to come back next season ready to go. I still like the deal.

I feel the exact same way about this. I'm looking for Rios to come back strong next year with a fresh start.

khan
09-14-2009, 11:44 AM
Wild speculation here, but given the environment in which MLB is in currently:


Is it possible that Rios was juicing to some degree prior to his obese contract, but is now clean?

Nellie_Fox
09-14-2009, 11:46 AM
Wild speculation here, but given the environment in which MLB is in currently:


Is it possible that Rios was juicing to some degree prior to his obese contract, but is now clean?Anything is possible. I hate it that the roiders have made it so every guy who goes into a slump is now suspect. And I don't like dragging guys' names through the mud on "wild speculation."

soxfanreggie
09-14-2009, 11:57 AM
I feel the exact same way about this. I'm looking for Rios to come back strong next year with a fresh start.

Even if he doesn't come back "strong", even hitting .220 is better than what we're seeing right now.

eriqjaffe
09-14-2009, 12:20 PM
Even if he doesn't come back "strong", even hitting .220 is better than what we're seeing right now.I never thought I'd see a player that made me wish Dewayne Wise was in the lineup, but man...

khan
09-14-2009, 12:32 PM
Anything is possible. I hate it that the roiders have made it so every guy who goes into a slump is now suspect. And I don't like dragging guys' names through the mud on "wild speculation."

Not meaning to drag anyone's name through the mud, but the prevailing secrecy and resistance to change of this era has made it this way.

Madscout
09-14-2009, 01:16 PM
I never thought I'd see a player that made me wish Dewayne Wise was in the lineup, but man...
I'll still take Rios. At least he is a legit CF.

munchman33
09-14-2009, 01:58 PM
You guys are really embarrassing sometimes.

Yes, Rios looks absolutely lost. Hopefully he can re-work his swing (kinda like Nick Swisher has done this season) and be the player he once was. Proclaiming this a mistake already or saying you feel sorry for Kenny is ridiculous.

Moving to New York and batting twenty points higher doesn't mean his swing is reworked. It means he's hitting in a much better lineup. And I think we'd want Rios to do a little better than hit .250.

slavko
09-14-2009, 02:31 PM
TDog, I like you, but this seems pretty presumptuous. We have no idea how he actually feels about all this. And even if he wasn't overly passionate about the game, if he gave us results, it wouldn't matter. Not every player lives for the game. Give him another year, unless you want to trot Wise out there again (I like Wise, but Rios is obviously the better player).

What does that have to do with it?

As far as Mother Teresa, she may be Rios's best hope to start hitting again.

Crede24Thome25
09-14-2009, 03:31 PM
From what I've seen so far it looks as if we have an Alfonso Soriano on the south south:angry:

TDog
09-14-2009, 03:36 PM
TDog, I like you, but this seems pretty presumptuous. We have no idea how he actually feels about all this. And even if he wasn't overly passionate about the game, if he gave us results, it wouldn't matter. Not every player lives for the game. Give him another year, unless you want to trot Wise out there again (I like Wise, but Rios is obviously the better player).

My Rios assessment doesn't come lightly. It isn't based solely on statistics. In fact, statistics have little to do with it. He seems to have stopped playing hard since he signed his big contract. Compared to the player he used to be, he seems lazy in the outfield. (His poor defense was key in the Sunday win in Oakland, and the margin wouldn't have been so close had he come through with a hit in his two failed at bats with runners in scoring position.)

No one has suggested Rios is injured. Quentin's season has been lost to injury, and that was probably the biggest blow to this White Sox season. But Rios appears to be healthy. And yet he looks like a different player now than he did before he signed his contract in his offensive and defensive approach to the game. That is what the scouts are saying. Fans may optimistically hope otherwise, but the evidence is to the contrary.

The way Rios is playing, he is a liability both in the outfield and at the plate. I always gave Javier Vazquez the benefit of the doubt, but until Alex Rios shows the passion for the game he showed in his early years in Toronto, I just don't want him starting for the White Sox.

spawn
09-14-2009, 03:38 PM
From what I've seen so far it looks as if we have an Alfonso Soriano on the south south:angry:
Not even remotely close. Rios plays defense much better than Soriano.

Noneck
09-14-2009, 03:51 PM
Not even remotely close. Rios plays defense much better than Soriano.

And he still has his legs.

GoGoCrede
09-14-2009, 04:16 PM
My Rios assessment doesn't come lightly. It isn't based solely on statistics. In fact, statistics have little to do with it. He seems to have stopped playing hard since he signed his big contract. Compared to the player he used to be, he seems lazy in the outfield. (His poor defense was key in the Sunday win in Oakland, and the margin wouldn't have been so close had he come through with a hit in his two failed at bats with runners in scoring position.)

No one has suggested Rios is injured. Quentin's season has been lost to injury, and that was probably the biggest blow to this White Sox season. But Rios appears to be healthy. And yet he looks like a different player now than he did before he signed his contract in his offensive and defensive approach to the game. That is what the scouts are saying. Fans may optimistically hope otherwise, but the evidence is to the contrary.

The way Rios is playing, he is a liability both in the outfield and at the plate. I always gave Javier Vazquez the benefit of the doubt, but until Alex Rios shows the passion for the game he showed in his early years in Toronto, I just don't want him starting for the White Sox.

I hear you. We'll see how it all pans out. I hope he flourishes with us. :smile:

oeo
09-14-2009, 04:30 PM
And he still has his legs.

And he's younger, plus cheaper.

Craig Grebeck
09-14-2009, 04:42 PM
Moving to New York and batting twenty points higher doesn't mean his swing is reworked. It means he's hitting in a much better lineup. And I think we'd want Rios to do a little better than hit .250.
Well then it's settled. This is probably as true as your Mark Hendrickson = Javier Vazquez assessment earlier this year.

The Immigrant
09-14-2009, 05:22 PM
One of these days we'll stop hearing about the lazy defense on that lazy Sunday in Oakland, but I'm afraid that day won't be upon us anytime soon.

TDog
09-14-2009, 06:19 PM
I hear you. We'll see how it all pans out. I hope he flourishes with us. :smile:

As do I.

TDog
09-14-2009, 06:37 PM
One of these days we'll stop hearing about the lazy defense on that lazy Sunday in Oakland, but I'm afraid that day won't be upon us anytime soon.

If you would rather hear about his lazy defense on his last homestand, I could mention that (a dropped fly ball in extra innings might have cost the White Sox a game if not for two baserunning blunders by the player who hit it), or his strikeouts with runners in scoring position. He has just three RBIs since he came to the Sox, none since August 28, and in most games he comes up at least twice with runners in scoring position. On defense, he plays too deep, and too many balls fall in front of him for hits. Rios has been playing in the White Sox outfield for about a month, and already he leads the team in dropped routine fly balls, both in one-run, extra-inning games.

That isn't the way he played baseball when he was establishing himself with the Blue Jays. This thread was started, not because I have it in for Rios, because scouts see there is a problem with Rios.

This isn't about Alex Rios having a bad game.

The Immigrant
09-14-2009, 07:01 PM
On defense, he plays too deep, and too many balls fall in front of him for hits. Rios has been playing in the White Sox outfield for about a month, and already he leads the team in dropped routine fly balls, both in one-run, extra-inning games.

Isn't it the coaching staff's job to move him in if he's playing too deep? Maybe the coaching staff is willing to live with an occasional single that drops in front of him rather than watching balls sail over his head for doubles. I certainly am. Besides, he has played better CF defense than anyone else we've trotted out there this year, other than perhaps He Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned. But you keep flogging that dead horse - I knew you would.

oeo
09-14-2009, 07:32 PM
If you would rather hear about his lazy defense on his last homestand, I could mention that (a dropped fly ball in extra innings might have cost the White Sox a game if not for two baserunning blunders by the player who hit it), or his strikeouts with runners in scoring position. He has just three RBIs since he came to the Sox, none since August 28, and in most games he comes up at least twice with runners in scoring position. On defense, he plays too deep, and too many balls fall in front of him for hits. Rios has been playing in the White Sox outfield for about a month, and already he leads the team in dropped routine fly balls, both in one-run, extra-inning games.

He dropped one ball, probably the only one he will ever drop in his career.

Also, I haven't noticed an extreme amount of balls dropping in front of him. Playing deep isn't necessarily a bad thing if you can get a good jump and track them down. Torii Hunter plays a deep outfield. Dewayne Wise plays a shallow one, and often lets doubles fly over his head because he can't track it down.

VMSNS
09-14-2009, 08:31 PM
There's not doubt that Rios hasn't been hitting the ball well. However, he seems to be getting a lot of bad breaks out there as well. He's hit the ball hard on numerous occasions, but it's always right at somebody (kind of like Kotsay's first few games with the Sox). It also seems like he whenever he takes the ball up the middle, it hits the mound and robs him of a hit.

If he keeps playing this way next year, I'll start to get worried because we'll be counting on him as an integral part of the lineup. But as of right now, I'll give him a break and hope Ozzie can help him get his head out of his ass.

russ99
09-14-2009, 09:07 PM
If you would rather hear about his lazy defense on his last homestand, I could mention that (a dropped fly ball in extra innings might have cost the White Sox a game if not for two baserunning blunders by the player who hit it), or his strikeouts with runners in scoring position. He has just three RBIs since he came to the Sox, none since August 28, and in most games he comes up at least twice with runners in scoring position. On defense, he plays too deep, and too many balls fall in front of him for hits. Rios has been playing in the White Sox outfield for about a month, and already he leads the team in dropped routine fly balls, both in one-run, extra-inning games.

That isn't the way he played baseball when he was establishing himself with the Blue Jays. This thread was started, not because I have it in for Rios, because scouts see there is a problem with Rios

This isn't about Alex Rios having a bad game.

Regardless what the scouts have seen or try to reason out his 2009 performance, Rios has had problems since day one this season. He had problems with the Jays batting coach and Jays fans. And how would you feel if you were dealt with zero control despite a NTC? That didn't help things. This guy really needs to pack it in, go home, forget about 2009 and start fresh next year.

The problem with that is he's still our best defensive outfielder, so Ozzie will probably keep him in there, and I don't see him breaking out of a season-long funk that is 75% mental.

So despite typical salary-driven angst by some fans, which really needs to stop - you're not paying his salary, Jerry is - he's still a five-tool player, but the guy's had an awful year. He's mentally and emotionally beaten down, he hasn't quit. I think he'll do well next season.

I just hope Kenny doesn't stupidly sell low on him this offseason.

Big D
09-14-2009, 09:11 PM
I just hope Kenny doesn't stupidly sell low on him this offseason.

It'll be impossible to trade him, so I don't think you have to worry about that. Right now, he's up there with Soriano and Vernon Wells as one of the worst contracts in baseball. Maybe he can regain some value if he plays better next year, but right now he's completely untradeable.

Frater Perdurabo
09-14-2009, 09:17 PM
I think Rios will come back fine in 2010. Remember that Konerko had a terrible 2003 and a terrible first four months of 2008. And each time he bounced back. (Yes, I know they are different players and the situations are not connected or correlated, but the example is instructive.) Plus, Rios is still a plus defender at a critical defensive position, and can still steal and run the bases. He will be fine. Look for .280, 20 HR, 25 SB, 35 2B next year.

kidmccarthy
09-14-2009, 09:38 PM
last time I checked, 10 mil next season and 12 mil after is cheaper than most gold glove centerfielders. he is struggling, but its just a swing mechanic. A lot of mediocre players make 10 mil, next year, but he actually might have upside that they dont.

Lip Man 1
09-14-2009, 09:58 PM
More scouts talking about Rios:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-15-white-sox-rios-chicago-sep15,0,4737211.story

Lip

hi im skot
09-14-2009, 10:39 PM
I end up disliking Rios more every time I read a quote from him.

Forget next season, Alex; why don't you try to figure some **** out this month.

Noneck
09-14-2009, 10:58 PM
The more I read the more I get worried. Too many scouts have been saying the same thing.

I know Williams is a smart baseball guy who would have known about this. But I am now thinking that maybe the move was initially just a block on the waiver wire. Or a nice PR move to show the fans that they are trying, thinking Toronto will pull him back one way or another

If it turns out that Williams lost a chickie run, it could cause some real problems.

Craig Grebeck
09-15-2009, 03:41 AM
The more I read the more I get worried. Too many scouts have been saying the same thing.
It's groupthink. Once the book is out on a guy who seemingly "doesn't care" they all go with it. I generally don't value anything a scout says anonymously to a beat writer.

Craig Grebeck
09-15-2009, 08:52 AM
Moving to New York and batting twenty points higher doesn't mean his swing is reworked. It means he's hitting in a much better lineup. And I think we'd want Rios to do a little better than hit .250.
I forgot to post this initially. Mea culpa.

Nick Swisher's slash line on the road this season: .284/.370/.620

Red Barchetta
09-15-2009, 08:56 AM
The more I read the more I get worried. Too many scouts have been saying the same thing.

I know Williams is a smart baseball guy who would have known about this. But I am now thinking that maybe the move was initially just a block on the waiver wire. Or a nice PR move to show the fans that they are trying, thinking Toronto will pull him back one way or another

If it turns out that Williams lost a chickie run, it could cause some real problems.

Don't worry...Walker will turn him into the .250 hitter we know he is capable of! :tongue:

southside rocks
09-15-2009, 08:57 AM
It's groupthink. Once the book is out on a guy who seemingly "doesn't care" they all go with it. I generally don't value anything a scout says anonymously to a beat writer.

I agree with you. It's almost like gossip, it takes on a life of its own.

If someone speaks on the record about how Rios' game has changed for the worse since he signed his big contract, I'll take that possibility seriously. Otherwise it's like saying that Paul Konerko's big contract after 2005 ruined him. :rolleyes:

Rios has a very effortless stride and covers a LOT of ground in CF. Quite a few times I've seen balls hit to left center or right center and thought they would fall in for hits, only to see Rios glove them easily. He never LOOKS like he's hustling -- but he's getting the job done. I have to conclude that he simply has a different style, and set of abilities, from some other players we've seen in that spot. (Where is Rob Mackowiak, anyway?)

ChiSoxGal85
09-15-2009, 09:06 AM
(Where is Rob Mackowiak, anyway?)

I just happened to hear about him recently...my son plays on a fall ball team that played at South Suburban College this weekend. One of his coaches played with Mackowiak there. Coach said Mackowiak is now playing for the Newark Bears in the Atlantic League.

Hitmen77
09-15-2009, 09:13 AM
From what I've seen so far it looks as if we have an Alfonso Soriano on the south south:angry:

Not even remotely close. Rios plays defense much better than Soriano.

Plus Rios is 5 years younger. He should be entering his prime. Soriano is 33 and it's very likely that he's only going downhill from here.

oeo
09-15-2009, 04:47 PM
I just happened to hear about him recently...my son plays on a fall ball team that played at South Suburban College this weekend. One of his coaches played with Mackowiak there. Coach said Mackowiak is now playing for the Newark Bears in the Atlantic League.

I wonder, though, what's happened to his game. Ever since he was dealt to the Padres, he hasn't been the same.

eriqjaffe
09-15-2009, 05:33 PM
I just happened to hear about him recently...my son plays on a fall ball team that played at South Suburban College this weekend. One of his coaches played with Mackowiak there. Coach said Mackowiak is now playing for the Newark Bears in the Atlantic League.Actually, he's not playing anywhere ATM - he was signed by the Indians, spent a month in Columbus and was released in July.

According to Wikipedia, he had surgery for a "double sports hernia" after the 2007 season. That must account for the terrible numbers he's put up since then.

Crede24Thome25
09-15-2009, 05:36 PM
Not even remotely close. Rios plays defense much better than Soriano.
I meant at the plate, maybe I should have gone into greater detail:D:

ChiSoxGal85
09-15-2009, 06:02 PM
Actually, he's not playing anywhere ATM - he was signed by the Indians, spent a month in Columbus and was released in July.

According to Wikipedia, he had surgery for a "double sports hernia" after the 2007 season. That must account for the terrible numbers he's put up since then.

Huh, now you got me curious...I checked the Newark Bears site and he played in a game as recently as 9/12/09, according to a game story on their site. He's listed as an infielder on their roster. Funny - Carl Everett is on the roster too. oops...sorry for the hijack, I'll go back to lurking now. :smile:

ChiSox65
09-15-2009, 10:16 PM
Yes... because Paul is faking passion by hitting .280+ 25+ HR and 80+ RBI so far. If that's faking passion I wish the other half of our line up would "fake" passion.


Thank You......Well put.

eriqjaffe
09-16-2009, 09:08 AM
Huh, now you got me curious...I checked the Newark Bears site and he played in a game as recently as 9/12/09, according to a game story on their site. He's listed as an infielder on their roster. Funny - Carl Everett is on the roster too. oops...sorry for the hijack, I'll go back to lurking now. :smile:Well, I got my info from Wikipedia, which didn't mention him going back to Newark. That's what I get for trusting Wikipedia, I guess. :redface:

voodoochile
09-16-2009, 09:20 AM
Okay, I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

Let's assume the scouts are right and Rios has indeed been playing like he doesn't care.

Maybe that's because of where he was playing. I mean Toronto has no chance year after year in the playoff hunt, so maybe he just got fed up. Does that suck? Yes. Do I wish no one ever started just going through the motions when doing a job they didn't feel matters from a big picture perspective? Yes. Is it human nature? Yes again.

Now he gets traded to the Sox. The Sox are in the middle of a pennant chase and he's bee added as a key piece. He tries to turn "it" on and fails sending him into a slump. Now he starts to press and things get even worse.

That analysis fits the picture of things just as well as "Rios got paid and stopped trying".

He also might just be having a crappy year of baseball. He wouldn't be the first guy.

The guy is here for a long time and needs to be given a fair chance. 100 PA isn't enough to say the Sox picked up an over priced bum. Of course it's WSI, so being the first poster to say, "he's a bum" seems to be some kind of competition. Unless those posters or those scouts are actually "Being Alex Rios" they have no clue what is going on inside his head. Oh and if they actually are "Being Alex Rios" then please put the best hitter in charge when he comes up to bat...

hawkjt
09-16-2009, 09:56 AM
Anyone that saw him track down that bomb to center last nite can see that he has some very good skills in centerfield. I like the concept of him going from gap to gap,covering Carlos and Pods in right and left field next year. Once they get their rythmn,and give him room, he will be a huge asset out there.

As for the plate, I go to the back of the baseball card and his youth and that makes me confident that he could come out next year and have a huge year offensively. I say 30 hrs,90rbi,.300,30 sb....and the Sox in the playoffs.

areilly
09-16-2009, 03:15 PM
As for the plate, I go to the back of the baseball card and his youth and that makes me confident that he could come out next year and have a huge year offensively. I say 30 hrs,90rbi,.300,30 sb....and the Sox in the playoffs.

Pretty bold considering he's done two of those things once apiece (and never the other two) in his six seasons.

white sox bill
09-16-2009, 07:01 PM
Well...at least he's not quite being paid Soriano $$.

hawkjt
09-17-2009, 01:06 AM
Pretty bold considering he's done two of those things once apiece (and never the other two) in his six seasons.


Tonite Alex got two hits...all he needed was someone to believe in him:D:

russ99
09-17-2009, 09:37 AM
Tonite Alex got two hits...all he needed was someone to believe in him:D:

But he's making $10M, we need two doubles or homers... :rolleyes:

Good start by Alex. Hopefully he can get some confidence back and put him on the path for next season.

Pear-Zin-Ski
09-17-2009, 10:53 AM
But he's making $10M, we need two doubles or homers... :rolleyes:

Ha, you could say that about anyone on the roster....