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View Full Version : *Official* That was not very good 9/11 post game thread


BadBobbyJenks
09-11-2009, 11:53 PM
Hey Manders!

http://www.mudtrap.com/images/ben-stiller.gif

BleacherBandit
09-11-2009, 11:55 PM
If the team can't win when the Tigers and Twins both lose, this team has no chance. This season is over even if they're still in it mathamatically.

JB98
09-11-2009, 11:56 PM
This is the 24th game of the season where the Sox have scored one run or less. As you might expect, the Sox are 0-24 in those games.

There are just too many slumping players in the lineup to put together a late-season push.

Hitmen77
09-12-2009, 12:00 AM
That top of the 2nd was so typical. 1st and 2nd, nobody out and we can't score. Rios and Dye's averages are in total free fall.

BleacherBandit
09-12-2009, 12:01 AM
This is the 24th game of the season where the Sox have scored one run or less. As you might expect, the Sox are 0-24 in those games.

There are just too many slumping players in the lineup to put together a late-season push.

When I think of slumps, I think of ones that last a few weeks, maybe. Once you cross that month long threshold, you're digressing as a player.

Dye, Rios, and Quentin have digressed this season. They'll need to do something over the offseason to make sure we aren't weighed down with mediocre players. Quentin may still have the talent--that hasn't digressed--but he's no good physically IMO. Dye is at the end of the tank, and Rios doesn't show any quality as a player, at least this season.

WhiteSoxOnly
09-12-2009, 12:01 AM
Well that was a thrilling game.This team must be allergic to
.500 baseball.If it was possible to be 80-82 and win the division
this team could do it.To have both the other teams both lose
and get yet another chance to do something...and they instead
run to the bathroom again.

kingpin_rcs
09-12-2009, 12:01 AM
So, what's with this Rios guy. Are we stuck with him for like - ever? So far I am unimpressed - at least not in a good way.

Konerko05
09-12-2009, 12:06 AM
There really isn't much conversation that can be had at this point.

Hitmen77
09-12-2009, 12:07 AM
So, what's with this Rios guy. Are we stuck with him for like - ever? So far I am unimpressed - at least not in a good way.

.157 average and .165 OBP since joining the White Sox. :thud:

At least Dye's big salary will be off the books after this year. I know some people insist that Rios will be a great addition for us eventually....but, man, if he isn't it's going to be a long 5 years with that huge contract.

Senerch23
09-12-2009, 12:08 AM
So Rios is going to suddenly go back to his productive self after 3 years of poor play? Yikes!

Cuck the Fubs
09-12-2009, 12:10 AM
:anon: GO BEARS!

JB98
09-12-2009, 12:11 AM
So Rios is going to suddenly go back to his productive self after 3 years of poor play? Yikes!

3 years of poor play? That's an exaggeration.

There's no disputing he's been awful since the Sox acquired him, however.

voodoochile
09-12-2009, 12:12 AM
So Rios is going to suddenly go back to his productive self after 3 years of poor play? Yikes!

What am I missing? He's posted and OPS of .865, .852 and .798 in the three seasons prior to this one. He even posted a .744 this year in Toronto, but has slumped horribly since joining the Sox.

Just curious as to why you say he's on his third straight year of poor play...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5880

Lip Man 1
09-12-2009, 12:13 AM
JB:

That's a pretty amazing stat but I can certainly see it...when your philosophy is "home run or nothing" and you don't hit home runs you're in deep **** my friend.

This offense needs to be gutted and recharged for next year.

Lip

Konerko05
09-12-2009, 12:14 AM
So Rios is going to suddenly go back to his productive self after 3 years of poor play? Yikes!

Three years of poor play? This is the only year you can really consider poor out of the last four years. Last year his power numbers were down a bit, but he still hit .291/.337./.461 with above average defense.

I'm not defending Rios. I also don't know if he will turn it around next year, but your information is wrong.

Edit: Voodoo beat me to it.

johnnyg83
09-12-2009, 12:14 AM
This team hates opportunity.

Hitmen77
09-12-2009, 12:15 AM
3 years of poor play? That's an exaggeration.

There's no disputing he's been awful since the Sox acquired him, however.

We just have to hope that 2009 is just an aberration. If not, then that's a huge albatross of a contract that the Jays dumped on KW's lap.

If he goes back to even his 2008 numbers and can play a decent CF for us next year, then he'll be a good addition to the Sox.

Konerko05
09-12-2009, 12:19 AM
JB:

That's a pretty amazing stat but I can certainly see it...when your philosophy is "home run or nothing" and you don't hit home runs you're in deep **** my friend.

This offense needs to be gutted and recharged for next year.

Lip

Who exactly do you consider to a "home run or nothing" player in the White Sox starting lineup?

WhiteSoxOnly
09-12-2009, 12:19 AM
3 years of poor play? That's an exaggeration.

There's no disputing he's been awful since the Sox acquired him, however.

Awful would be an accurate description.But we're stuck with him
and have to hope he figures it out by the time the 2010 season
starts or the only way we will be able to get rid of his contract
would be to deal him for someone else's problem case.

chisoxfanatic
09-12-2009, 12:20 AM
:anon: GO BEARS!
Yep. I can't wait for Sunday Night!

The NFL season is back!

twinsuck
09-12-2009, 12:21 AM
I'm still waiting for that explosion, SOX!!! :mad:

Nellie_Fox
09-12-2009, 12:21 AM
:anon: GO BEARS!Please stop this. If you really want to hide the fact that you're a Sox fan (symbolized by the bag over head) and turn your attention to the Bears, I can arrange it so that you won't be tempted to come to this Sox board until the Bears' season is over.

Lip Man 1
09-12-2009, 12:25 AM
Dye, Konerko, A.J. Quentin (because of his bad foot and knee), Nix just to name a few.

The issue is they aren't hitting 35 home runs a year anymore WITH a .290 average. They're have dropped to (in general terms) 25 home runs and a .250 average.

That's not going to cut it.

In the early part of this decade they could get away with it because of the numbers guys like Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Konerko, Valentin etc were putting up.

That's not the case anymore.

And again this is in broad general terms. That's the mindset, swing hard, hope to hit the ball eight miles and drive in eight runs.

Try to hit a sac fly...advance a guy to 3rd base with less than two outs by going the other way...executing the hit and run....forget about it.

I have said before, the issue isn't the players...they have been very successful with their approach, the issue is Kenny since the start of the 2006 season has so many of the SAME TYPE OF HITTER in the lineup. When they are hitting home runs, it's great...when they aren't they have trouble scoring runs. That's the way it is.

That "philosophy" desperately needs to completely change and frankly I don't know if Kenny can fix it, even if he had unlimited funds...those 'all around' type hitters, who combine power and average don't hit the market very often.

Lip

twinsuck
09-12-2009, 12:29 AM
Dye, Konerko, A.J. Quentin (because of his bad foot and knee), Nix just to name a few.

The issue is they aren't hitting 35 home runs a year anymore WITH a .290 average. They're have dropped to (in general terms) 25 home runs and a .250 average.

That's not going to cut it.

In the early part of this decade they could get away with it because of the numbers guys like Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Konerko, Valentin etc were putting up.

That's not the case anymore.

And again this is in broad general terms. That's the mindset, swing hard, hope to hit the ball eight miles and drive in eight runs.

Try to hit a sac fly...advance a guy to 3rd base with less than two outs by going the other way...executing the hit and run....forget about it.

I have said before, the issue isn't the players...they have been very successful with their approach, the issue is Kenny since the start of the 2006 season has so many of the SAME TYPE OF HITTER in the lineup. When they are hitting home runs, it's great...when they aren't they have trouble scoring runs. That's the way it is.

That "philosophy" desperately needs to completely change and frankly I don't know if Kenny can fix it, even if he had unlimited funds...those 'all around' type hitters, who combine power and average don't hit the market very often.

Lip
AJ isn't home run or nothing. He's our best hitter.

Lip Man 1
09-12-2009, 12:33 AM
Twin:

I said in general terms, A.J.'s hitting over .300 which appears to be a fluke. His average for his career isn't in that range. He's having a season where his base hits are falling in.

Perfect example tonight was how many runs the Angels manufactured. Look it up. That's how you play the game, get guys on, get them over, get them in. (Like the Sox did in 2005...you remember that season right? When they actually had a thing called balance...)

Lip

Lip Man 1
09-12-2009, 12:38 AM
JB:

I'll go you one better...this is the 57TH game this season the Sox have scored three runs or less.

57 games.

Wow.

Lip

johnnyg83
09-12-2009, 12:43 AM
JB:

I'll go you one better...this is the 57TH game this season the Sox have scored three runs or less.

57 games.

Wow.

Lip

Shocking that we've won 70.

I can't remember a more frustrating team, talent is no guarantee of success... and as Wordsworth said, "distance lends enchantment to the view."

JB98
09-12-2009, 12:51 AM
Dye, Konerko, A.J. Quentin (because of his bad foot and knee), Nix just to name a few.

The issue is they aren't hitting 35 home runs a year anymore WITH a .290 average. They're have dropped to (in general terms) 25 home runs and a .250 average.

That's not going to cut it.

In the early part of this decade they could get away with it because of the numbers guys like Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Konerko, Valentin etc were putting up.

That's not the case anymore.

And again this is in broad general terms. That's the mindset, swing hard, hope to hit the ball eight miles and drive in eight runs.

Try to hit a sac fly...advance a guy to 3rd base with less than two outs by going the other way...executing the hit and run....forget about it.

I have said before, the issue isn't the players...they have been very successful with their approach, the issue is Kenny since the start of the 2006 season has so many of the SAME TYPE OF HITTER in the lineup. When they are hitting home runs, it's great...when they aren't they have trouble scoring runs. That's the way it is.

That "philosophy" desperately needs to completely change and frankly I don't know if Kenny can fix it, even if he had unlimited funds...those 'all around' type hitters, who combine power and average don't hit the market very often.

Lip

Lip, I think they've got some speed and some contact hitting at both the top and the bottom of the lineup. You've got Podsednik and Beckham at the top and Ramirez and Getz at the bottom. Rios, if he ever starts hitting, is a guy who can swipe a bag too.

I think they've made some strides this season in making the lineup more balanced. The problem is that their run producers in the middle have let them down in the second half. They've stopped getting hits entirely. Quentin has been bad. Dye has been brutal. Konerko has been OK, but not as productive as he was in the first half.

The offensive problems are not attributed to just one thing. It's bad baserunning. It's the inability to deliver with RISP. It's guys striking out in situations where contact will do, etc. I do think that they've started to transform the lineup. We'll see what else they do this offseason.

StillMissOzzie
09-12-2009, 01:02 AM
JB:

I'll go you one better...this is the 57TH game this season the Sox have scored three runs or less.

57 games.

Wow.

Lip

Any chance you can break that down into # of games the Sox scored 0, 1, 2, and 3 runs, respectively? And what's the record in the 57 games? That's over 1/3 of a full season right there!

And pitching wise, what are they gonna do with Linebrink? There is no situation he seems suited for, and he's under contract for 2 more years IIRC. Yuchhhh!

SMO
:angry:

JB98
09-12-2009, 01:09 AM
Any chance you can break that down into # of games the Sox scored 0, 1, 2, and 3 runs, respectively? And what's the record in the 57 games? That's over 1/3 of a full season right there!

And pitching wise, what are they gonna do with Linebrink? There is no situation he seems suited for, and he's under contract for 2 more years IIRC. Yuchhhh!

SMO
:angry:

I've actually got it at 56 games:

Sox record when scoring 0 runs: 0-11
Sox record when scoring 1 run: 0-13
Sox record when scoring 2 runs: 2-12
Sox record when scoring 3 runs: 4-14

Total record: 6-50 when scoring 3 or less.

I don't know what the **** they should do with Linebrink. I can't answer that one for you.

CWSpalehoseCWS
09-12-2009, 01:11 AM
Rios has a pass in my book for this season, simply because he's in a new organization. I know that's a lame and pretty bad excuse, but it has to be affecting him in some way during this slump. There is no way he is this bad. Dye on the other hand has me questioning his abilities, and I already do not want to see him back next year.

Noneck
09-12-2009, 01:13 AM
And pitching wise, what are they gonna do with Linebrink? There is no situation he seems suited for, and he's under contract for 2 more years IIRC. Yuchhhh!

SMO
:angry:


Nothing much they can do. If he has options he can be like MacDougal was the previous 2 years. I don't see any other option.

manders_01
09-12-2009, 02:05 AM
Hey Manders!

http://www.mudtrap.com/images/ben-stiller.gif

:rolling: Well played BBJ!

guillensdisciple
09-12-2009, 04:25 AM
**** it.

soltrain21
09-12-2009, 06:45 AM
When I think of slumps, I think of ones that last a few weeks, maybe. Once you cross that month long threshold, you're digressing as a player.



Ryan Howard and Paul Konerko think you can have more than a month long slump and not be "digressing," and I'm sure many other players do, too.

SBSoxFan
09-12-2009, 06:56 AM
When I think of slumps, I think of ones that last a few weeks, maybe. Once you cross that month long threshold, you're digressing as a player.

Dye, Rios, and Quentin have digressed this season. They'll need to do something over the offseason to make sure we aren't weighed down with mediocre players. Quentin may still have the talent--that hasn't digressed--but he's no good physically IMO. Dye is at the end of the tank, and Rios doesn't show any quality as a player, at least this season.

I wonder how long a slump can last before a player is regressing. However, I digress ... :redneck

wassagstdu
09-12-2009, 07:26 AM
I just happened to pick up a copy of the 2007 Baseball Prospectus and checked out their listing for Rios. It refers to "years of Blue-Jay instruction, trying to get him to pull the ball." Seems he was a slap hitter and they wanted HR power from him, since he was stuck in LF. He did well to start 2006 but regressed after a stay on the DL (staph infection). The Prospectus mentions the need to show him video in the off season to get him back on track. Maybe we can thank the Jays' "HR or nothing" strategy for Rios' problems.

The Dude
09-12-2009, 08:12 AM
AJ isn't home run or nothing. He's our best hitter.

Exactly what I was going to respond to that comment. AJ is not the problem at all.

slavko
09-12-2009, 08:59 AM
When I think of slumps, I think of ones that last a few weeks, maybe. Once you cross that month long threshold, you're digressing as a player.

Dye, Rios, and Quentin have digressed this season. They'll need to do something over the offseason to make sure we aren't weighed down with mediocre players. Quentin may still have the talent--that hasn't digressed--but he's no good physically IMO. Dye is at the end of the tank, and Rios doesn't show any quality as a player, at least this season.

I think you mean regressed. Digressed means going off-topic in a discussion. Otherwise you are correct in every way.

southside rocks
09-12-2009, 09:24 AM
Well, I digressed from the game last night and turned on the Dodgers game instead.

Really, it's like re-living 2007 to watch the White Sox lately. No thanks. :(:

Tragg
09-12-2009, 09:26 AM
TCQ and Beckham seem to be trying to pull everything. They are both better than that. This is where coaching comes in.

Could Linebrink be any worse?

hawkjt
09-12-2009, 09:28 AM
Sox offense has just not been good in the clutch at all this year.

They had that stretch from early june -mid july where they we good with runners on...mainly it was Beckham, but since then..horrible.

The bullpen has also been un-clutch. Not horrible overall,but in the big moment..they have given it up too often.

But overall, the pitching is not the problem..2nd in the league in ERA.
Even the defense,as bad as it has been, is not the main culprit.
It is the offense,the second half.
The tigers are actually hitting worse than the Sox but score half a run more/game because they sacrifice more, move runners better,and get a clutch hit once in awhile to make a comeback. Not great,but better than the Sox.
I have to point the finger to JD,Rios,Carlos,Thome(when he was here).
The run producers just have not come thru the second half.
Rios has got to be better next year.
JD has to be let go..second year in a row he has fallen off dramatically in the second half.
Carlos has got to get better.
Thome is gone.
PK has to maintain his respectable performance.
And we need to pick up a .300 hitting run producer like Abreu.

As for this game, Gavin did have his worst performance in a couple of months,and we are getting a hot Angels team...not good timing. We need Johnny Danks to come up with his best outing of the season today,and MB tomorrow. Must win 4 of the next 5 to keep a faint pulse. Tigers are coming back to earth, lets not break their fall,Sox...Go Sox!!

TommyJohn
09-12-2009, 09:52 AM
Well, I digressed from the game last night and turned on the Dodgers game instead.

Really, it's like re-living 2007 to watch the White Sox lately. No thanks. :(:They may not be championship caliber, but there is no way that this team is as bad as 2007. But I see what you mean.

chisoxfanatic
09-12-2009, 10:09 AM
TCQ and Beckham seem to be trying to pull everything. They are both better than that. This is where coaching comes in.

Could Linebrink be any worse?
Ever since hearing Beckham had been spending "extra time with Greg Walker," he has been doing a lot more of that.

Seriously, Walker needs to be fired!!! He's done enough damage to this team.

BleacherBandit
09-12-2009, 10:17 AM
I think you mean regressed. Digressed means going off-topic in a discussion. Otherwise you are correct in every way.

Damnit, it was late. Well at least you know what I was saying.

To all those who cite players that sucked for over a month, I'm not saying that you don't have a chance of being good again, just that it's not probable. I think Dye is done and that we shouldn't be positive that Quentin will be able to start the whole season.

Hitmen77
09-12-2009, 10:26 AM
I've actually got it at 56 games:

Sox record when scoring 0 runs: 0-11
Sox record when scoring 1 run: 0-13
Sox record when scoring 2 runs: 2-12
Sox record when scoring 3 runs: 4-14

Total record: 6-50 when scoring 3 or less.

I don't know what the **** they should do with Linebrink. I can't answer that one for you.

That's brutal! 24 games with one run or less (all losses?) 11 shutouts?!

It's pretty bad that we're only 4-14 when scoring 3 runs or less. I know 3 runs isn't a lot of support, but come on!

I guess Linebrink has never really recovered mid season injury last year. He was good before the DL stint and just awful afterwards.

Gammons Peter
09-12-2009, 12:25 PM
Most amazing stat of the year

Linebrink only has a 4.24 ERA.

How is that possible? I guess mostly because Thorton strands his runners

Lip Man 1
09-12-2009, 12:30 PM
JB:

Thanks for breaking it down. I understand they've made some progress but as we both know, they have a lot more to do.

Podsednik's chances of even staying healthy two years in a row, let alone solving the leadoff situation long term are very small based on his track record, Ramirez is example #1 of the swing hard and hope to hit the ball eight miles philosophy. He's an undisciplined as they come.

Perhaps with maturity he can harness his immense talent.

Regarding A.J. while he is not completely in the same camp as some of the others, Dye, Konerko, Thome etc. he may have the same mind-set.

I did see an interview with him on WGN a few weeks ago that gave me pause. He was asked about his season and the fact that he's hitting over .300 and he said, (parpaphrasing) 'I'm disappointed because all I'm hitting this year is singles...' :?:

Well we all know that if all any player ever did was always hit singles, you'd never get the team out...

I'd take my chances on a lineup that all hit .300 and hit a lot of singles...wouldn't you? A.J. made it sound to me, like what he was doing was a bad thing. It shouldn't be.

Lip

Senerch23
09-12-2009, 12:31 PM
What am I missing? He's posted and OPS of .865, .852 and .798 in the three seasons prior to this one. He even posted a .744 this year in Toronto, but has slumped horribly since joining the Sox.

Just curious as to why you say he's on his third straight year of poor play...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5880

Sorry, should have been more specific in stating that he has been in decline, not necessarily playing poorly.

Konerko05
09-12-2009, 12:32 PM
Most amazing stat of the year

Linebrink only has a 4.24 ERA.

How is that possible? I guess mostly because Thorton strands his runners

ERA is a deceptive stat for relievers. Sometimes he's only allowing inherited runners to score. Other times, as you said Thornton is getting out of his jams.

His 1.627 WHIP is more telling.

doublem23
09-12-2009, 12:37 PM
Most amazing stat of the year

Linebrink only has a 4.24 ERA.

How is that possible? I guess mostly because Thorton strands his runners

Bullpen pitchers' ERA can be very, very misleading.

Here's what you need to know about Linebrink. His season ERA bottomed out on June 8 at 1.74. Since then, he's pitched in 30 games, and opponents are hitting .311/.396/.598 off him. That's a .994 oOPS (FWIW, only one offensive player has a higher OPS than that).

He's terrible.

JB98
09-12-2009, 12:40 PM
JB:

Thanks for breaking it down. I understand they've made some progress but as we both know, they have a lot more to do.

Podsednik's chances of even staying healthy two years in a row, let alone solving the leadoff situation long term are very small based on his track record, Ramirez is example #1 of the swing hard and hope to hit the ball eight miles philosophy. He's an undisciplined as they come.

Perhaps with maturity he can harness his immense talent.

Regarding A.J. while he is not completely in the same camp as some of the others, Dye, Konerko, Thome etc. he may have the same mind-set.

I did see an interview with him on WGN a few weeks ago that gave me pause. He was asked about his season and the fact that he's hitting over .300 and he said, (parpaphrasing) 'I'm disappointed because all I'm hitting this year is singles...' :?:

Well we all know that if all any player ever did was always hit singles, you'd never get the team out...

I'd take my chances on a lineup that all hit .300 and hit a lot of singles...wouldn't you? A.J. made it sound to me, like what he was doing was a bad thing. It shouldn't be.

Lip

I certainly think A.J. is at his best when he's a gap-to-gap hitter. He isn't a slugger. He's never hit 20 home runs in a season. He just needs to be who he is, and frankly, I'm satisfied with the season he is having. He doesn't strike out much. He doesn't walk much. He's an aggressive free swinger and a line-drive hitter when he's at his best. That's fine with me, as long as he's hitting sixth or seventh. He's not a No. 3 hitter. The fact that he's in that spot is an indictment of other hitters on this team.

As far as Podsednik goes, for me, that's the toughest decision KW faces this offseason. Pods is a butcher in the field. He makes a lot of maddening baserunning mistakes, but he's been on base a whole helluva lot as a leadoff hitter this year. Can we find a better option outside of the organization? I'm not sure. Unlike a lot of WSIers, I have no interest in giving 32-year-old Chone Figgins a five-year deal.

WhiteSoxOnly
09-12-2009, 12:48 PM
I certainly think A.J. is at his best when he's a gap-to-gap hitter. He isn't a slugger. He's never hit 20 home runs in a season. He just needs to be who he is, and frankly, I'm satisfied with the season he is having. He doesn't strike out much. He doesn't walk much. He's an aggressive free swinger and a line-drive hitter when he's at his best. That's fine with me, as long as he's hitting sixth or seventh. He's not a No. 3 hitter. The fact that he's in that spot is an indictment of other hitters on this team.

JD collapsed.TCQ never got it going.Thome never had any business hitting
third when he was here so you're right JB,AJ has been put there out of
necessity.Without knowing who Kenny is going to bring in next year maybe
Beckham ends up in the 3 spot at some point.

JB98
09-12-2009, 12:52 PM
JD collapsed.TCQ never got it going.Thome never had any business hitting
third when he was here so you're right JB,AJ has been put there out of
necessity.Without knowing who Kenny is going to bring in next year maybe
Beckham ends up in the 3 spot at some point.

Gordon needs to stop trying to pull every ****ing ball. About six weeks ago, the kid was a doubles machine because he was hitting from line to line. Now, it's pull, pull, pull, pull. Sure, we get the occasional long ball from him, but the hits have stopped coming. It's going to cost him Rookie of the Year if he doesn't right his approach.

tstrike2000
09-12-2009, 02:42 PM
Three years of poor play? This is the only year you can really consider poor out of the last four years. Last year his power numbers were down a bit, but he still hit .291/.337./.461 with above average defense.

Contrary to many other Sox players we've had in recent years, Rios has shown he can consistantly hit, so better judgment says he can and will most likely rebound next year.

russ99
09-12-2009, 03:49 PM
JB:

Thanks for breaking it down. I understand they've made some progress but as we both know, they have a lot more to do.

Podsednik's chances of even staying healthy two years in a row, let alone solving the leadoff situation long term are very small based on his track record

I'm not worried about this one bit. He's complettly changed his workout regimen, and he's stayed healthy so far due to it.
It's not a stretch to think Pods can stay healthy next season too.

The guy was playing on 2 torn groin muscles from the all-star break in '05 through 07.

kufram
09-12-2009, 04:02 PM
I'm not worried about this one bit. He's complettly changed his workout regimen, and he's stayed healthy so far due to it.
It's not a stretch to think Pods can stay healthy next season too.

The guy was playing on 2 torn groin muscles from the all-star break in '05 through 07.
I don't think anyone thinks Pods is the longterm answer for lead-off. He is the answer for next year.

oeo
09-12-2009, 05:38 PM
I don't think anyone thinks Pods is the longterm answer for lead-off. He is the answer for next year.

We need to go in a different direction. We got lucky with him this year, but have you forgotten how inconsistent and unhealthy he's been overall? You can't count on Pods, I thought we learned that already.

kufram
09-12-2009, 06:17 PM
We need to go in a different direction. We got lucky with him this year, but have you forgotten how inconsistent and unhealthy he's been overall? You can't count on Pods, I thought we learned that already.
Who you got? Figgins? Sure... you won't get him. It's one thing to say what we have is wrong, but you need an idea for a replacement. Batting over 300, getting rbis from the lead-off, with weaknesses admittedly but solved a big problem for which no one has offered a realistic, viable, getable candidate. A proven major league leadoff. We've been counting on Pods all year and he's come through. geez, what do you want?

Lip Man 1
09-13-2009, 12:10 AM
Kufram:

You can never say never with Kenny. If he doesn't think he can get Figgins, he may go back to the Brian Roberts talks or even, as he did before the 2007 season Gary Matthews Jr.

There are options other than 'just' Podsednik or Figgins.

Lip

Nellie_Fox
09-13-2009, 12:31 AM
We need to go in a different direction. We got lucky with him this year, but have you forgotten how inconsistent and unhealthy he's been overall? You can't count on Pods, I thought we learned that already.I want Podsednik back next year. He's earned it.

Lip Man 1
09-13-2009, 12:44 AM
Nellie:

I definitely think he's earned a real shot at being the 4th outfielder, starting once or twice a week and coming in as a pinch runner in late inning situations.

I don't know that I'm comfortable thinking he can pull another rabbit out of his hat next season, stay healthy, produce at the same level and actually improve his defense (which according to Ozzie has to be a priority next year for the team, catching the ball better...)

Lip

Nellie_Fox
09-13-2009, 12:56 AM
Nellie:

I definitely think he's earned a real shot at being the 4th outfielder, starting once or twice a week and coming in as a pinch runner in late inning situations.

I don't know that I'm comfortable thinking he can pull another rabbit out of his hat next season, stay healthy, produce at the same level and actually improve his defense (which according to Ozzie has to be a priority next year for the team, catching the ball better...)

LipI think he should be the leadoff man every day until he shows it was a one-year fluke. DH, left field, I don't care.

He's carried the Sox (such as that is) for most of this year.

voodoochile
09-13-2009, 01:02 AM
I think he should be the leadoff man every day until he shows it was a one-year fluke. DH, left field, I don't care.

He's carried the Sox (such as that is) for most of this year.

I agree. I also think the Sox have other options they could use as a LOH if Pods went down (Beckham and Getz come immediately to mind).

I also think some of the defense issues are going to solve themselves next year. I expect the IF defense to be much stronger to start the season and continue to improve. OF defense will depend on what happens with RF, but Quentin should be healthier to start the season than he has been most of this season.

kufram
09-13-2009, 04:18 AM
Kufram:

You can never say never with Kenny. If he doesn't think he can get Figgins, he may go back to the Brian Roberts talks or even, as he did before the 2007 season Gary Matthews Jr.

There are options other than 'just' Podsednik or Figgins.

Lip
What you say is true and KW does usually get his man eventually but sometimes it is a couple of years too late. I think Pods is a better than than ever and would just rather see him play himself out of the spot for next year... that's all. His defense has always been suspect but if Rios is in centre that will give him less ground to cover. Don't get me wrong... I want more than anything for the Sox to be a good as possible next year and if B. Roberts is getable then you've got to think hard about it, but I actually really like our infield for next year. It is just a hunch maybe, but I think Pods is a man playing for his life and will be that guy for another year and I like that. His health was a worry until now but his legs had plenty left in them on the inside-the-park yesterday.