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Brian26
09-08-2009, 08:59 PM
Hawk and Stone started talking about this briefly. I'd never heard the story before. Hawk and Stone tried to paint Weaver as a genius with this move, but I just don't see how it's that big of a deal for the small percentage of times that the starting pitcher is actually going to get knocked out in the first inning.

After a quick search, this seems to be the best explanation of what Weaver's reasoning was. The main point is that Weaver was using a lefty/right platoon at DH that year, I guess it's not a bad move...although, again, probably would pay dividends once or twice a year at most if used before the rule change.

http://prestonjg.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/how-earl-weaver-changed-the-dh-rule/

Noneck
09-08-2009, 09:26 PM
It also would have knocked the pitcher who was DHing out of the game at the 1st AB. People now a day will say that's no big deal but back then many starting pitchers pinch ran frequently, Joel Horlen comes to my mind.

Dibbs
09-08-2009, 09:32 PM
I think the righty/lefty thing is way overanalyzed. I don't think it is that big of a deal, and is only valuable if you have a horrible hitting DH.

downstairs
09-09-2009, 11:35 AM
It does seem silly. First of all- how many times does a pitcher get pulled before facing the DH (even if he's hitting 7th or 8th!).

Secondly, if a pitcher DOES get pulled before facing the DH, chances are you're ahead by quite a bit, so a move with such a minor upside is even less relevant.

Interesting article though.

soxfanreggie
09-09-2009, 02:32 PM
It also would have knocked the pitcher who was DHing out of the game at the 1st AB. People now a day will say that's no big deal but back then many starting pitchers pinch ran frequently, Joel Horlen comes to my mind.

I wonder when the last time a pitcher pinch-ran in a game. It might happen more often than I think, but I don't see many managers risking an injury unless it's a last guy out of the pen player for a really slow guy in a crucial situation.

Paulwny
09-09-2009, 02:48 PM
I wonder when the last time a pitcher pinch-ran in a game. It might happen more often than I think, but I don't see many managers risking an injury unless it's a last guy out of the pen player for a really slow guy in a crucial situation.


Last year Piniella used Marquis and Harden as pinch runners.

Brian26
09-09-2009, 03:17 PM
I wonder when the last time a pitcher pinch-ran in a game. It might happen more often than I think, but I don't see many managers risking an injury unless it's a last guy out of the pen player for a really slow guy in a crucial situation.

Clayton Richard for the Sox this year (maybe in the Milwaukee series).

TheVulture
09-09-2009, 03:21 PM
I think the righty/lefty thing is way overanalyzed. I don't think it is that big of a deal, and is only valuable if you have a horrible hitting DH.

I think I'll go with Weaver and his five 100 win seasons, eleven 90 win seasons and .583 career winning percentage.

TDog
09-13-2009, 06:57 PM
I think I'll go with Weaver and his five 100 win seasons, eleven 90 win seasons and .583 career winning percentage.

Certainly, Weaver knew what he was doing. The phantom DH isn't a move of great genius, though. Essentially, it just leaves the DH slot blank when the lineup cards are turned in. The only way it could come back to hurt Weaver would be if a game was suspended after going deep into extra innings. You might need the pitcher you made ineligible at the start of the game. But the chances of that are less than the chances of knocking out the opposing starter in the first inning.

I think the rules committee didn't go far enough in revising the rule, if they were going to revise it at all. I think the starting designated hitter in the starting lineup should be required to hit in the first inning regardless of whether there is a pitching change, just as in the National League it is against the rules to pinch hit for the pitcher in the top of the first.

Dibbs
09-13-2009, 08:11 PM
I think I'll go with Weaver and his five 100 win seasons, eleven 90 win seasons and .583 career winning percentage.

OK chief, I didn't say he was a bad manager. All I said is this really isn't that big of a deal. If you have to use this strategy, it means you probably have the two worst DHs in the league.

MisterB
09-13-2009, 09:30 PM
Since Weaver himself scrapped the idea after a couple of weeks, I think we can assume it wasn't that great an idea after all.

TDog
09-13-2009, 09:44 PM
I wonder when the last time a pitcher pinch-ran in a game. It might happen more often than I think, but I don't see many managers risking an injury unless it's a last guy out of the pen player for a really slow guy in a crucial situation.

Tim Lincecum pinch-ran in a game in a Giants game August 24. That was less than a month ago, but I don't know if there have been any more recent examples of pitchers being used to pinch-run.

If memory serves, Jim Palmer's only appearance in the 1983 ALCS against the Whtie Sox came as a pinch-runner. But that was more than a quarter of a century ago.

StillMissOzzie
09-14-2009, 12:49 AM
I remember reading about Earl's "strategery" some time ago, but I always thought that it was his passive protest of the DH in general, not some high falutin' brain work. I think pencilling in a DH who's a few hundred miles away is pretty funny myself.

SMO
:rolleyes: