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Lip Man 1
09-02-2009, 11:21 AM
He's got it right...no clutch hitting, fading veterans, no way to score other than home run:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/notebook?page=bbtn

Lip

veeter
09-02-2009, 11:29 AM
It's funny how a guy 1000 miles away understands changes need to be made. Yet Rogers and Morrissey call it a white flag again. These guys watch every game, and can't figure out it's just not happenning this year? In fact, Kenny gave Thome a guarantee of post-season baseball. THAT was classy to me. Yes, Jim is a class act himself, but pay me 14 million bucks and I'll accept a trade to ****ing Siberia for a month.

VeeckAsInWreck
09-02-2009, 11:31 AM
:o: I never imagined I'd say this, but Steve Phillips hit it right on the head.

He's right though, when the pitching was on the hitting was off and vice versa.

spongyfungy
09-02-2009, 11:32 AM
Him picking the Sox to win the central was the death knell for the season.

He's right that the team is a bunch of dinosaurs and we need to get not only younger players but good young players. I liked that one stretch of the season where the bottom of the order was on base and the top of the order was driving them in. That Aug 1st homestand was kind of fun baseball to watch.

I couldn't say it better myself when he said Kenny and Ozzie are part of the solution. I think most people recognize that and no one is calling for their heads. You can't fault Kenny for being aggressive and trying to win every year

veeter
09-02-2009, 11:34 AM
Him picking the Sox to win the central was the death knell for the season.

He's right that the team is a bunch of dinosaurs and we need to get not only younger players but good young players. I liked that one stretch of the season where the bottom of the order was on base and the top of the order was driving them in. That Aug 1st homestand was kind of fun baseball to watchBest time of the year. The only time when they had any Hawk Harrelson rhythm.

Zisk77
09-02-2009, 12:05 PM
I would disagree with the hr or nothing view. Thats what we were for quite some time. This year we are just bad offensively, but when we were winning we were manufacturing runs. Hit & running, stealing bases, sac, etc. Remember the top & bottom of the order was rocking. Otherwise i agree with the other assessments.

ms620
09-02-2009, 12:11 PM
He's got it right...no clutch hitting, fading veterans, no way to score other than home run:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/notebook?page=bbtn

Lip

What exactly is clutch hitting? Just wondering what your definition is.

PatK
09-02-2009, 12:17 PM
I would disagree with the hr or nothing view. Thats what we were for quite some time. This year we are just bad offensively, but when we were winning we were manufacturing runs. Hit & running, stealing bases, sac, etc. Remember the top & bottom of the order was rocking. Otherwise i agree with the other assessments.

I agree.

When we go station-to-station, we're slumping

doublem23
09-02-2009, 12:19 PM
What a totally generic article.

<Insert any team not in play-off hunt> is struggling this year because their lineup is underachieving, their rotation has not been consistent, and their bullpen has been shaky. Yes, <Insert name(s) of players having decent seasons> have been producing as expected but <insert name of struggling player> has not lived up to expectations, as seen by his <insert 1 cherry-picked stat that completely validates your opinion>. Luckily, <team name> is trying to become more <insert generic, flavor of the month buzzword that baseball "experts have been throwing around>, and I believe <insert GM's name> will be able remake the <team name>'s roster before 2010.

Yawn.

Chez
09-02-2009, 12:21 PM
We also played well during that stretch when we played in NL parks without the DH. Seemed like we were much more conscious of manufacturing runs and playing for one run at a time -- rather than waiting for the home run. I was surprised we were were so good at small ball, and even more surprised that we seemingly abandoned it after interleague play.

hawkjt
09-02-2009, 12:28 PM
From the time that Beckham started hitting after his slow start...until he dropped off in early August...that coincided with the best play by the Sox.
Maybe a coincidence, but Gordo was a catalyst for almost two months...then he hit the wall, and the team went totally flat.

JD,PK,Rios, and Thome struggled the whole second half...disaster.
Phillips nailed it. Tigers are only hitting one point higher than the Sox but scoring more runs...clutch counts.

kufram
09-02-2009, 12:33 PM
He's got it right...no clutch hitting, fading veterans, no way to score other than home run:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/notebook?page=bbtn

Lip
Absolutely right. A lack of good, fundamental baseball will cancel out the long balls every time over a season. We had it there for a while when Pods first came up. Where did it go?

thomas35forever
09-02-2009, 12:35 PM
Excellent and spot-on analysis from Phillips. Much better than this piece-of-a-turd article Rick Morrissey put out today.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-02-morrissey-sep02,0,1315692.column

Marqhead
09-02-2009, 12:45 PM
Excellent and spot-on analysis from Phillips. Much better than this piece-of-a-turd article Rick Morrissey put out today.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-02-morrissey-sep02,0,1315692.column

Good god this makes my head hurt. White Flag II? 1935 Cubs? Traitor Kenny?

We moved two veterans who have little left in the tank who will be gone in a month. We got compensation for them!!!

What a ****ing dolt.

fram40
09-02-2009, 12:52 PM
From the time that Beckham started hitting after his slow start...until he dropped off in early August...that coincided with the best play by the Sox.
Maybe a coincidence, but Gordo was a catalyst for almost two months...then he hit the wall, and the team went totally flat.



and isn't that when Ramirez moved down and Beckham moved up in the batting order?


Just double-checked my fading memory. Beckham moved to batting second on 7/29. Sox won 5 of 7 (Twins, Yankees, Angels) and since then have gone 8 - 17. Not sure that Beckham batting second is the reason the bullpen has collapsed.

Palehose Pete
09-02-2009, 12:57 PM
It's nice to see someone in the national media get what the Sox are trying to do. I don't find myself agreeing with Steve Philips very often, so mark this down as one of those rare moments.

It's going to be fun watching this team grow into their own.

DSpivack
09-02-2009, 02:53 PM
Good god this makes my head hurt. White Flag II? 1935 Cubs? Traitor Kenny?

We moved two veterans who have little left in the tank who will be gone in a month. We got compensation for them!!!

What a ****ing dolt.

Excellent and spot-on analysis from Phillips. Much better than this piece-of-a-turd article Rick Morrissey put out today.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-02-morrissey-sep02,0,1315692.column

Steve Phillips might be an idiot that I normally can't stand, but at least he doesn't have an agenda.

MisterB
09-02-2009, 04:29 PM
Good god this makes my head hurt. White Flag II? 1935 Cubs? Traitor Kenny?

We moved two veterans who have little left in the tank who will be gone in a month. We got compensation for them!!!

What a ****ing dolt.

Only thing worse than the column is some of the Sox "fans" that are responding.

Likening this year to '97 is laughable: In '97 the Sox were at .500 and 3 games back with 2 months to play; this year they're 5 under and 7 back with one month to play.

1997 was a heinous crime - 2009 is a mercy killing.

Risk
09-02-2009, 04:34 PM
1997 was a heinous crime - 2009 is a mercy killing.

That is a perfect description of both events.

Risk

oeo
09-02-2009, 04:38 PM
He's got it right...no clutch hitting, fading veterans, no way to score other than home run:

The thing is, we haven't been nearly as dependent as in the past on the homerun. It's easy to say we can only score on the homerun when we can't hit the ball, period right now. That's more of a recent occurrence than the story of the 2009 White Sox, yet we will see this **** preached all offseason.

It's pretty simple why we have a 2-8 road trip: everyone except AJ and Alexei have hit a slump and our bullpen has collapsed.

BTW, the Yankees are young and athletic? That's funny.

spawn
09-02-2009, 04:58 PM
It's pretty simple why we have a 2-8 road trip: everyone except AJ and Alexei have hit a slump and our bullpen has collapsed.
Yep. That about sums it up.

BTW, the Yankees are young and athletic? That's funny.
Johnny Damon- 35
Derek Jeter- 32
Mark Texeira- 29
A-Rod- 34
Jorge Posada- 38
RObinson Cano- 26
Nick Swisher- 27
Hideki Matsui- 34
Melky Cabrera- 25

That starting lineup consists of 3 players under 30. How the hell is that young and athletic? You're right oeo. That is funny! :rolling:

Bob G
09-02-2009, 05:07 PM
I think our terrible defense deserves mention as well. You don't see many playoff teams that allow as many unearned runs as we have.

oeo
09-02-2009, 05:20 PM
I think our terrible defense deserves mention as well. You don't see many playoff teams that allow as many unearned runs as we have.

Yes, in other words, Phillips is way off the mark like always. Maybe he wrote this last year and they just published it now. Do some research for once, Steve.

thomas35forever
09-02-2009, 05:36 PM
Morrissey is on CTL repeating what he said. Canellis is defending KW.

SOXfnNlansing
09-02-2009, 06:04 PM
I couldn't sum up the Sox any better than he did.

spongyfungy
09-02-2009, 09:45 PM
What exactly is clutch hitting? Just wondering what your definition is.

I'll tell you what it isn't. 2-56 trailing after 8 innings

oeo
09-03-2009, 12:49 AM
I have to ask what the love affair with this article is. He's totally off base. The Sox offense is slumping right now, so they're not scoring runs. Of course it will look like they're only scoring runs via the home run. That has not been the case over the majority of the year, however.

The guy loses the rest of his credibility when he suggests the Yankees are a team the Sox should model their offense off of. The Yankees offense is exactly what he accuses the Sox of, except they get more guys on base and are hitting the ball a hell of a lot better. If any offense depends too much on the homerun, it's the ****ing Yankees. This is typical of Steve Phillips.

kitekrazy
09-03-2009, 10:38 AM
We also played well during that stretch when we played in NL parks without the DH. Seemed like we were much more conscious of manufacturing runs and playing for one run at a time -- rather than waiting for the home run. I was surprised we were were so good at small ball, and even more surprised that we seemingly abandoned it after interleague play.

Glad you mentioned that. I actually enjoyed the Sox playing NL baseball. Our pitchers don't do a bad job of hitting either.

I've gotten to the point I can't stand the DH anymore.

kitekrazy
09-03-2009, 10:42 AM
It could be worse. He could have said the Peavy trade cost them the season.

TDog
09-03-2009, 11:13 AM
I would disagree with the hr or nothing view. Thats what we were for quite some time. This year we are just bad offensively, but when we were winning we were manufacturing runs. Hit & running, stealing bases, sac, etc. Remember the top & bottom of the order was rocking. Otherwise i agree with the other assessments.

You are absolutely right. Phillips has no insight. Any assessment he makes about this team that people might agree with is only coincidentally correct because all he is dinging is spouting off the stereotype criticisms of the White Sox.

The team started losing since Beckham stopped hitting after the series in Oakland. (In fact, since that series in Oakland where he got his season average over .310 during the Saturday afternoon game, he has become a home-run-or-nothing hitter, but no one would describe Beckham as such.) Beckham's slump and Rios coming over to the Sox and doing nothing have done more to hurt the White Sox than the cliches that people want to cling to about this team, which has been in transition all year. Dye has been in a terrible slump as well. If Dye and Beckham were hitting, especially at the top of the order, the Sox would be scoring more runs. Ramirez and Nix have been hitting better at the bottom of the order.

Call people insightful if they agree with you. It validates your opinion. But if you are looking for insight on which to form an opinion, avoid Steve Phillips.

I hear him occasionally on the radio talking about how the Cubs have too much talent not to make a move and take their division. I heard him talking about a suspended game in the National League this year that started in one city and ended in another over time in which there were roster changes made. he said it had never happened before and he didn't
know how baseball could allow this to happen.

Steve Phillips has probably never seen a Sox game that he wasn't pad to watch. And there haven't been many of those.

doublem23
09-03-2009, 11:29 AM
Glad you mentioned that. I actually enjoyed the Sox playing NL baseball. Our pitchers don't do a bad job of hitting either.

I've gotten to the point I can't stand the DH anymore.

Our pitchers are a combined 2-20 this season with 7 K's.

Waysouthsider
09-03-2009, 11:31 AM
I think the clutch hitting is defined with our rather poor performance in the area of producing with RISP....every time a team (insert Twins, Rays, A's, Angels, Red Sox, Yankees) we play has men on second base it seems like they have someone come up and hit one of Hawk's "duck-snorts" or a little dribbler and their ballplayers sprint home and score....this is aggravated, of course, by our ****ty defense.

Our guys either strike out trying to hit the fences or hit long pop-ups giving the defense time to set up to hold our slower runners. Also, their defenders all seem to be able throw the ball to the correct fielder in an expeditious and effective way.....see above on "our ****ty defense"