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Konerko05
08-29-2009, 12:22 AM
I am completely underwhelmed with Alexei Ramirez defense at SS this season.

He seems to botch his fair share of routine groundballs.

He constantly makes lazy throws across the diamond.

He is erratic turning a double play.

His baseball intelligence is lacking, which is surprsing after he was heralded as the smartest player on the White Sox last season.

His arm is weak. After hearing all season about his "canon" for an arm, I haven't seen him make one throw this year that would lead anyone to believe his arm is strong.

His range is limited, which brings me to another point. Maybe I'm just set in my thoughts right now and completely overlooking things, but does Alexei ever dive for a ball? Right now I can't even picture what Alexei diving looks like because it never seems to happen. If he can't reach a ball on his feet, he gives up.

So can anyone tell me what exactly makes Alexei even an average SS? If it wasn't for Konerko, he would have over 30 errors this season. I know it's the 1B's duty, but he shouldn't have to cover the SS's ass that many times.

I think it's time we end the Alexei Ramirez at SS experiment. He hasn't improved at all since the beginning of the season. He isn't even making the highlight reel plays we were promised in spring training.

Does anyone know if Beckham can handle SS at the ML level? I can't see him being any worse than Alexei. I'd like to see Alexei become a super utility player next season as he can play all around the infield and outfield. His speed will also be useful off the bench.

kitekrazy
08-29-2009, 12:29 AM
I'm hoping it's a sophomore slump.

I started questioning the intelligence of this organization when the season opened up with Josh Fields at 3rd and allowing "Bettamitt" near a ball park. I still think they should have kept Uribe.

JB98
08-29-2009, 12:36 AM
I also am fed up with Ramirez's defense, or lack thereof.

I'd move Beckham to shortstop next year. I doubt the Sox will do that, however.

Noneck
08-29-2009, 01:08 AM
I see his defensive problems as twofold.

Last year he played with a good defensive veteran infield. This year he is with all rookies and some playing outside of their natural position.

Now this one will get flames but I will still go there.

Ramirez mental lapses may have been caused by the signing of Viciedo. The 19 year old kid from the same country as Ramirez. Ramirez had a super year last year, if Beckham had the year he is having this year, last year, he wouldn't even have a sniff at ROY. That is what a great year Ramirez had, not a knock on Beckham.

After all of this, a 19yr kid who at one time was probably raking the field after Ramirez played on it in their country gets 1/3 more money than Ramirez gets and plays AA ball. It gets into Ramirez head and it affects his game.

Yea I know that's how it goes but it is something that I think may be affecting him.

Coolpapa
08-29-2009, 05:15 AM
Trade his lame ass to the Reds for Homer Bailey

Lillian
08-29-2009, 09:14 AM
I see his defensive problems as twofold.

Last year he played with a good defensive veteran infield. This year he is with all rookies and some playing outside of their natural position.

Now this one will get flames but I will still go there.

Ramirez mental lapses may have been caused by the signing of Viciedo. The 19 year old kid from the same country as Ramirez. Ramirez had a super year last year, if Beckham had the year he is having this year, last year, he wouldn't even have a sniff at ROY. That is what a great year Ramirez had, not a knock on Beckham.

After all of this, a 19yr kid who at one time was probably raking the field after Ramirez played on it in their country gets 1/3 more money than Ramirez gets and plays AA ball. It gets into Ramirez head and it affects his game.

Yea I know that's how it goes but it is something that I think may be affecting him.

That's an interesting perspective. It seems plausible to me that there could be an attitude problem resulting from the money paid to Viciedo. Has anyone actually read any comments by Alexei that he is unhappy over his signing contract?

Brian26
08-29-2009, 09:39 AM
That's an interesting perspective. It seems plausible to me that there could be an attitude problem resulting from the money paid to Viciedo. Has anyone actually read any comments by Alexei that he is unhappy over his signing contract?

I happened to look at Alexei's contract last night and was floored that he's only making a little over a million dollars for each of the next few years (edit - he's arbitration eligible in 2012).

voodoochile
08-29-2009, 10:45 AM
I think most of his defensive problems are because he's new to the position on this leve and because he's still relatively young.

All of his defensive metrics are middle of the pack for both MLB and AL. I know, defensive metrics suck, but when it's that consistent compared to his peers, I'd say he's at worst middle of the pack.

I think he'll improve as he grows into his job and as the players around him grow into theirs.

Offensively he's had to deal with a lot more breaking pitches this year. Early in the year he was swinging at everything and got off to a horrible start in April and early May, but since May he's had average numbers for the most part with one spectacular month. He's become more patient so while his BA is down slightly, his OBP is actually higher than last year. He's obviously not getting the protection batting 7th and 8th he was while batting 2nd so his numbers are down since being dropped in the lineup.

I think he'll be fine once he fully settles in which should happen next year, IMO.

soltrain21
08-29-2009, 11:04 AM
I think most of his defensive problems are because he's new to the position on this leve and because he's still relatively young.

All of his defensive metrics are middle of the pack for both MLB and AL. I know, defensive metrics suck, but when it's that consistent compared to his peers, I'd say he's at worst middle of the pack.

I think he'll improve as he grows into his job and as the players around him grow into theirs.

Offensively he's had to deal with a lot more breaking pitches this year. Early in the year he was swinging at everything and got off to a horrible start in April and early May, but since May he's had average numbers for the most part with one spectacular month. He's become more patient so while his BA is down slightly, his OBP is actually higher than last year. He's obviously not getting the protection batting 7th and 8th he was while batting 2nd so his numbers are down since being dropped in the lineup.

I think he'll be fine once he fully settles in which should happen next year, IMO.

I don't think being new to a position makes him lolly-gag every 4 out of 5 throws. He mentally checks out all the time it seems.

voodoochile
08-29-2009, 11:05 AM
I don't think being new to a position makes him lolly-gag every 4 out of 5 throws. He mentally checks out all the time it seems.

How many of those throws are costing the team outs? I don't care how hard he throws it so long as the out gets recorded.

soltrain21
08-29-2009, 11:06 AM
How many of those throws are costing the team outs? I don't care how hard he throws it so long as the out gets recorded.

Well, that would be thanks to Paul Konerko. And you should care that our SS throws just about every ball in the dirt.

voodoochile
08-29-2009, 11:17 AM
Well, that would be thanks to Paul Konerko. And you should care that our SS throws just about every ball in the dirt.

LOL

I'll just bow out of this conversation now. Have fun...

soltrain21
08-29-2009, 11:23 AM
LOL

I'll just bow out of this conversation now. Have fun...

Um. Okay.

MarkZ35
08-29-2009, 11:25 AM
Errors are going to happen and he should get better with age and experience but I would just like to see Alexei dive for one ball. I know that he does a few times a year but he gives up on balls in the hole way to early. Sometimes I question his effort, not ability in the field.

Lip Man 1
08-29-2009, 11:34 AM
Mentally he's taking place off, that's his biggest problem. Ozzie has already called him out once this year for his performance mentally.

Like Voodoo I think that improves next season with some stability but there are no guarantees.

Lip

Dibbs
08-29-2009, 11:35 AM
We were spoiled with Uribe.

hi im skot
08-29-2009, 11:45 AM
Well, that would be thanks to Paul Konerko. And you should care that our SS throws just about every ball in the dirt.

It's true. It's gotten to the point where I'm shocked if Konerko catches it anywhere around his chest.

Konerko has probably saved Ramirez from at least 10 errors.

palehozenychicty
08-29-2009, 12:04 PM
I can't figure this guy out either. Then again, people were unsure to rate his ceiling before he started playing last year. I think we'll know a lot more about him over the next couple of years. He has hit better, but definitely does not play a fluid shortstop as management advertised in the spring.

PaleHoser
08-29-2009, 09:18 PM
I'd like to mention the fact that it seems that more often than not relay throws from the outfield seem to bounce through him. He seems to be unwilling to either move up to field the relay cleanly or sell out and stop the ball. I'd give Beckham a look a SS next spring.

BoysMom3
08-29-2009, 09:28 PM
This is all I got - LOVED Alexei at 2nd.

kitekrazy
08-29-2009, 09:46 PM
It's true. It's gotten to the point where I'm shocked if Konerko catches it anywhere around his chest.

Konerko has probably saved Ramirez from at least 10 errors.

Paulie had plenty of practice dealing with bad throws when Fields was playing 3rd.

kitekrazy
08-29-2009, 09:47 PM
I see his defensive problems as twofold.

Last year he played with a good defensive veteran infield. This year he is with all rookies and some playing outside of their natural position.

Now this one will get flames but I will still go there.

Ramirez mental lapses may have been caused by the signing of Viciedo. The 19 year old kid from the same country as Ramirez. Ramirez had a super year last year, if Beckham had the year he is having this year, last year, he wouldn't even have a sniff at ROY. That is what a great year Ramirez had, not a knock on Beckham.

After all of this, a 19yr kid who at one time was probably raking the field after Ramirez played on it in their country gets 1/3 more money than Ramirez gets and plays AA ball. It gets into Ramirez head and it affects his game.

Yea I know that's how it goes but it is something that I think may be affecting him.

BTW does anyone know how well Viciedo is doing in the minors?

kufram
08-30-2009, 03:50 AM
I always liked Uribe. What a great defensive infielder. He got constantly slated for his free-wheeling swing which was costly and his defense got mostly taken for granted here.. I think he was a great guy to have around also. Why couldn't his plate discipline have been addressed rather than let him go?

I like Alexei. He looks like a young player that needs to learn a new position to me but he's far too valuable to give up on now. Moving him back to second is going to create a 3b problem that I think has been resolved.

Sometimes in this game you've got to accept that not everyone is going to be great all of the time and from day 1 play error-free, clutch-hitting, game-winning baseball. Alexei has all of the tools needed to be a very good SS for a long time. Someone just needs to teach him . Ozzie, step up.

I would look more toward changing the attitude the team has as a whole rather than try to fix mechanical problems that I suspect will fix themselves in time. This team just doesn't have the appearance of team that is going to find a way to win ballgames. It looks like they are all waiting for someone else to do something. I don't know how you solve that problem.

samurai_sox
08-30-2009, 05:38 AM
I also am fed up with Ramirez's defense, or lack thereof.

I'd move Beckham to shortstop next year. I doubt the Sox will do that, however.

We can only hope...

wassagstdu
08-30-2009, 07:45 AM
I always liked Uribe. What a great defensive infielder. He got constantly slated for his free-wheeling swing which was costly and his defense got mostly taken for granted here.. I think he was a great guy to have around also. Why couldn't his plate discipline have been addressed rather than let him go?

I like Alexei. He looks like a young player that needs to learn a new position to me but he's far too valuable to give up on now. Moving him back to second is going to create a 3b problem that I think has been resolved.

Sometimes in this game you've got to accept that not everyone is going to be great all of the time and from day 1 play error-free, clutch-hitting, game-winning baseball. Alexei has all of the tools needed to be a very good SS for a long time. Someone just needs to teach him . Ozzie, step up.

I would look more toward changing the attitude the team has as a whole rather than try to fix mechanical problems that I suspect will fix themselves in time. This team just doesn't have the appearance of team that is going to find a way to win ballgames. It looks like they are all waiting for someone else to do something. I don't know how you solve that problem.

Alexei seems to be regressing at short. Look how quickly Beckham has adjusted to 3rd. I say trade Alexei to a team that has the time to gamble that he can learn to play short. And I would sure like to see Uribe back, especially in view of the uncertainty going into 2010 about every single infield position, since he can give you first rate defense at 3 of them.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-30-2009, 09:07 AM
BTW does anyone know how well Viciedo is doing in the minors?

After a very slow start, he is hitting well, particularly since July, and has a decent average. His power is still lacking, but I would imagine it will come around with more seasoning. He is making a lot of errors at 3B, however. Whether that will be his permanent position is still to be determined.

Craig Grebeck
08-30-2009, 09:16 AM
BTW does anyone know how well Viciedo is doing in the minors?
One good month (July). Other than that he's been terrible. He should be back in Birmingham next season.

Of course, one shouldn't expect much out of a first season in the states.

SCCWS
08-30-2009, 09:21 AM
I think most of his defensive problems are because he's new to the position on this leve and because he's still relatively young.

All of his defensive metrics are middle of the pack for both MLB and AL. I know, defensive metrics suck, but when it's that consistent compared to his peers, I'd say he's at worst middle of the pack.

I think he'll improve as he grows into his job and as the players around him grow into theirs.

I think he'll be fine once he fully settles in which should happen next year, IMO.

Voodo: What are you looking at for stats? Of the qualified SS in MLB he is ranked 19th out of 20 in fielding %. His range factor is middle of the pack.

LITTLE NELL
08-30-2009, 09:34 AM
It would not break my heart if we traded Alexei, he has looked lazy and dumb this year. I'm not sure how much shortstop he played in Cuba but I imagine quite a bit so I'm not giving him a pass as inexperienced. Another thing to rememeber is that he is not a kid, he will be 28 in 3 more weeks.
I want Beckham at SS next year.

voodoochile
08-30-2009, 09:42 AM
Voodo: What are you looking at for stats? Of the qualified SS in MLB he is ranked 19th out of 20 in fielding %. His range factor is middle of the pack.

Well he's dropped a point and about 4 notches since I looked at the stat at the time of my post. I swear he was 12th when I made that post. His ZR and RF continue to be middle of the pack. He's also 7th in total chances.

Also, since most of the mistakes seem to be mental lapses, you'd expect him to get better as he matures.

SCCWS
08-30-2009, 11:25 AM
Obviously something is strange about Alexi at SS. Being a White Sox fan living in New England, I only see a handful of games each year. But last winter when fans on this site were promoting dumping OC and moving Alexi I questioned that move. But I was only basing my concerns on stats which showed that Alexi was only an average 2nd baseman last year. I posted that should make him a below average SS since he was moving to a tougher position. But Ozzie and Cora certainly felt he could play SS. That leads me to believe that he has the physical ability and it is really mental lapses. I admit I am an Ozzie fan but I feel he should know if Alexi can cut it.

oeo
08-30-2009, 12:07 PM
Obviously something is strange about Alexi at SS. Being a White Sox fan living in New England, I only see a handful of games each year. But last winter when fans on this site were promoting dumping OC and moving Alexi I questioned that move. But I was only basing my concerns on stats which showed that Alexi was only an average 2nd baseman last year. I posted that should make him a below average SS since he was moving to a tougher position. But Ozzie and Cora certainly felt he could play SS. That leads me to believe that he has the physical ability and it is really mental lapses. I admit I am an Ozzie fan but I feel he should know if Alexi can cut it.

Personally, I think he has a lot of bad habits that he needs to work out.

jshanahanjr
08-30-2009, 07:44 PM
Beckham to SS next year is a no brainer. Ozzie should look for a new job if he can't figure out that's the best thing for the team. Move Alexei to CF, Rios to RF, Pods & Quentin share left and DH, Nix @ third, unless Kenny can get Chone to man 3B and lead off.

TheBigHurtST
08-30-2009, 07:51 PM
It's kind of sad that I get really nervous EVERY TIME our shortstop makes a long throw to first.

Waysouthsider
08-30-2009, 08:15 PM
I wonder if NONECK is onto something with the money issue. Sure seems like this squad all of the sudden has no chemistry? He certainly had an easier job last year at 2b with the incredible veteran infield around him, too...I've been bummed with him, but there are a lot of factors at play.

soltrain21
08-30-2009, 10:07 PM
Beckham to SS next year is a no brainer. Ozzie should look for a new job if he can't figure out that's the best thing for the team. Move Alexei to CF, Rios to RF, Pods & Quentin share left and DH, Nix @ third, unless Kenny can get Chone to man 3B and lead off.

You want Nix as an everyday third baseman? Hello third place.

Nellie_Fox
08-30-2009, 11:03 PM
Obviously something is strange about Alexi at SS. Being a White Sox fan living in New England, I only see a handful of games each year. But last winter when fans on this site were promoting dumping OC and moving Alexi I questioned that move. But I was only basing my concerns on stats which showed that Alexi was only an average 2nd baseman last year. I posted that should make him a below average SS since he was moving to a tougher position. But Ozzie and Cora certainly felt he could play SS. That leads me to believe that he has the physical ability and it is really mental lapses. I admit I am an Ozzie fan but I feel he should know if Alexi can cut it.How long does the guy have to be here before posters learn his name?