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View Full Version : Kenny Tried....


PhillipsBubba
08-28-2009, 11:00 PM
KW tried to improve the team...the team just didn't respond...it's time to back up the truck...it's a new day on the South Side...sing Auld Lang Syne for these fossils and thanks for the memories...let the Beckham era begin:smile:

kitekrazy
08-28-2009, 11:13 PM
KW tried to improve the team...the team just didn't respond...it's time to back up the truck...it's a new day on the South Side...sing Auld Lang Syne for these fossils and thanks for the memories...let the Beckham era begin:smile:

No he didn't considering what you seen opening day.

pudge
08-29-2009, 03:48 AM
He's playing for 2010 clearly. The Peavy deal is like acquiring Contreras and Freddy in '04 leading to '05.

This '09 team is downright awful, time to move on.

Coolpapa
08-29-2009, 06:12 AM
Dump Konerko. His gm and manager are intense. His fans are too. We go to work everyday with intensity for our jobs. Kenny, Ozzie, as well as us the sox fans look in the mirror very often to see how we can improve on ourselves. That is intensity. He is the captain? What a joke. AJ is the captain . **** Paulie.

russ99
08-29-2009, 08:02 AM
Dump Konerko. His gm and manager are intense. His fans are too. We go to work everyday with intensity for our jobs. Kenny, Ozzie, as well as us the sox fans look in the mirror very often to see how we can improve on ourselves. That is intensity. He is the captain? What a joke. AJ is the captain . **** Paulie.

Well, there's both sides of the spectrum.

Do you really want Paul to be an amped-up idiot like Zambrano or Swisher or would you prefer his quiet self? I'll take column B, but personally I'd prefer more of a middle ground at times.

Paul will play for the Sox another year, since it's very doubtful he'll waive his NTC. Hopefully Carlos or Rios gets right and becomes the centerpiece slugger next year and we don't need to rely on Paul as much.

It's looking like Dye and Thome could both be gone next year.

Domeshot17
08-29-2009, 09:57 AM
I agree and disagree on a few things:

(1) Sports in general don't care how hard you try, well not after High School. Sports are a results driven business, when you win you are king, when you lose you suck. Its pretty cut and dry. Yes, Kenny made a lot of good moves late. But it effects chemistry, the clubhouse etc. So while I understand and applaud Kenny trying to fix his mess, the bottomline is he ran out a piss poor last place capable team to start the season, and the 4-5 wins that has cost us are the difference right now.

(2) I don't think you need Konerko to be a vocal leader as long as someone else is. Its well well known that he carries a lot of respect in that locker room.

(3) I 100% agree Kennys moves were mostly to build for 2010. I said it a few days ago. I think Kenny and Ozzie get a pass this season, but if we miss the playoffs next year, or even back in with anoahter 85-86 win season and go 1 and done, someones head needs to roll.

tsoxman
08-29-2009, 09:58 AM
KW tried to improve the team...the team just didn't respond...it's time to back up the truck...it's a new day on the South Side...sing Auld Lang Syne for these fossils and thanks for the memories...let the Beckham era begin:smile:

Kenny tries very hard, perhaps to a fault....the fact is, we went into this year with major question marks at third, second, center,the fourth and fifth starter spots and bench depth...We had one of the worst defenses in the league last year that was projected to be even worse this season..Ddespite the availability of numerous payers for reasonable money last off season, Kenny stood pat. There were good reason for getting rid of Swisher, Uribe and Cabrera, but was the production that they provided in 2008 adequately replaced for the 2009 season?

If there were budgetary issues that precluded improving the club last off season, what changed during the season to influence the Sox to commit $120 million to two players- Rios and Peavy. While Rios will solidify our CF problem for years to come (we hope), the Peavy acquisition clearly was a move to help us next year but not this season due to his injury.

If you are speaking of 2009 and trying to win THIS season, this will not go down as one of Kenny's better efforts. Maybe 2010 will be a better year.

Brian26
08-29-2009, 10:35 AM
Dump Konerko. His gm and manager are intense. His fans are too. We go to work everyday with intensity for our jobs. Kenny, Ozzie, as well as us the sox fans look in the mirror very often to see how we can improve on ourselves. That is intensity. He is the captain? What a joke. AJ is the captain . **** Paulie.

Konerko's having a decent year. His numbers have been more consistent than Dye and Thome's this season, and he's on pace to quietly have about 28 hrs, 90 rbi and bat .280 +/-. That's a drop from his '04-'06 numbers, but everyone understood this would be expected when he signed after '05.

Not sure what the other jibberish in your post is about.

Frater Perdurabo
08-29-2009, 11:01 AM
but everyone understood this would be expected when he signed after '05. .

Yes, and it's why the Sox would be foolish to extend his contract beyond 2010, because he's going to continue that slow but steady decline.

BainesHOF
08-29-2009, 11:28 AM
This team has many problems, and Konerko has become one of them. I'm not talking about his hitting, either. What's happened to the guy defensively? He's been terrible in the second half. What's mind-boggling is he barely moves when taking throws at first base. Some throws that are sailing past him for errors should not only be caught, but are close enough to the bag to be outs. And what's with his total lack of stretching on close plays?

If everyone gave an effort like Kenny Williams, the team would be in first by five games.

tsoxman
08-29-2009, 11:37 AM
This team has many problems, and Konerko has become one of them. I'm not talking about his hitting, either. What's happened to the guy defensively? He's been terrible in the second half. What's mind-boggling is he barely moves when taking throws at first base. Some throws that are sailing past him for errors should not only be caught, but are close enough to the bag to be outs. And what's with his total lack of stretching on close plays?

If everyone gave an effort like Kenny Williams, the team would be in first by five games.

I thought that the infamous Contreras play in Boston was a worse play by Konerko. Why he didn't run to field that ball before it dribbled foul was beyond me. It seemed as though Contreras was either confused or surprised paulie did not field that ball.

Rohan
08-29-2009, 11:49 AM
Dump Konerko. His gm and manager are intense. His fans are too. We go to work everyday with intensity for our jobs. Kenny, Ozzie, as well as us the sox fans look in the mirror very often to see how we can improve on ourselves. That is intensity. He is the captain? What a joke. AJ is the captain . **** Paulie.

Scapegoating at it's best. he's going to be hitting 30+ home runs with a .270+ average by the end of the year. He also leads the team in RBI's with 76.

I might need to leave WSI for awhile whilst all this ridiculous scapegoating takes place.

Unless we get some wins, see ya'll in the off season. :gosox:

SOX ADDICT '73
08-29-2009, 12:07 PM
He's playing for 2010 clearly. The Peavy deal is like acquiring Contreras and Freddy in '04 leading to '05.

This '09 team is downright awful, time to move on.
I haven't yet thrown in the towel this year - I promised myself that if they went 6-5 in these 11 road games, AND returned home no more than 5 games back, I'd remain a believer; both are still remotely possible.

However, it occurred to me earlier this week how similar this season feels to both 2003 and 2004: Sox teams that contended for most of the year but ultimately fell short (I'd include 2006 as well, but the euphoria of a WS Championship was still fresh, so the feeling is different). As gut-wrenching as those seasons (and this one so far) were, I guess it's better than what we endured in 2007. :puking:

Zisk77
08-29-2009, 12:33 PM
I thought that the infamous Contreras play in Boston was a worse play by Konerko. Why he didn't run to field that ball before it dribbled foul was beyond me. It seemed as though Contreras was either confused or surprised paulie did not field that ball.


Probably because he was playing on the outfield grass in the Papi shift. he simply couldnt get there from where he was.

SCCWS
08-29-2009, 12:43 PM
This team has many problems, and Konerko has become one of them. I'm not talking about his hitting, either. What's happened to the guy defensively? He's been terrible in the second half. What's mind-boggling is he barely moves when taking throws at first base. Some throws that are sailing past him for errors should not only be caught, but are close enough to the bag to be outs. And what's with his total lack of stretching on close plays?

If everyone gave an effort like Kenny Williams, the team would be in first by five games.


HUH???? He has one of the higher fielding % of his career this year. He is rated number 4 in the AL w considerably more total chances than # 2 and 3. More importantly he leads the AL in range this year.

TomBradley72
08-29-2009, 01:07 PM
I don't have a problem with KW's approach this year...it was the first time he has taken a little bit of a longer view when he built the roster. I'm still glad he shed the salaries of Swisher and Javy...that contributed to our ability to get Rios and Peavy...both better long term solutions for the team. Fields, Getz, Anderson were all long term prospects for the WSox...he needed to see if any of them could provide solutions that would be cost effective (ie. pre-arbitration years), unfortunately only one (Getz) worked out. If we did not lose TCQ for most of the 1st half and he was healthy for the entire season, we may have the 4-5 more wins that would have us ahead of Detroit right now.

The 2nd half drop off of Dye, PK, Buehrle and Dotel has killed this team's chances, along with TCM's mediocre defense at SS, but overall, I think the talent pool of the organization has been greatly increased over the past 18 months: we've added Peavy, Rios, Beckham, Flowers, Danks(OF), Viciedo, Nix, while we've lost Swisher, Javy, Allen...I think we have a high quality/cost effective nucleus for the next few years.

kitekrazy
08-30-2009, 12:07 AM
They could have kept Javy and Swisher and dumped Thome for about the same money.

Noneck
08-30-2009, 12:17 AM
They could have kept Javy and Swisher and dumped Thome for about the same money.

I doubt anyone would have taken Thome unless most of his salary was salt and peppered.

TheBigHurtST
08-30-2009, 06:09 AM
Dump Konerko. His gm and manager are intense. His fans are too. We go to work everyday with intensity for our jobs. Kenny, Ozzie, as well as us the sox fans look in the mirror very often to see how we can improve on ourselves. That is intensity. He is the captain? What a joke. AJ is the captain . **** Paulie.

Huh?

samurai_sox
08-30-2009, 06:14 AM
this team is so frustrating

tsoxman
08-30-2009, 08:50 AM
They could have kept Javy and Swisher and dumped Thome for about the same money.
Recall that the Sox were in a trick bag regarding Thome...since they were fighting for a playoff spot in 2008, they desperately needed his bat so they could not manipulate the number of his plate appearances (not that they would). Once he achieved the threshold number of PAs, the option for 2009 kicked in.

I think that Jim has had a good year, but he is paid way beyond average scale for a DH.

TomBradley72
08-30-2009, 08:58 AM
They could have kept Javy and Swisher and dumped Thome for about the same money.

Which of the other AL teams would have wanted him? At his current salary? Swisher is hitting .243 this year and has another year or two on his contract...I don't think he was the answer...not after his poutfest in September last year.

Red Barchetta
08-30-2009, 09:56 AM
Well, there's both sides of the spectrum.

Do you really want Paul to be an amped-up idiot like Zambrano or Swisher or would you prefer his quiet self? I'll take column B, but personally I'd prefer more of a middle ground at times.

Paul will play for the Sox another year, since it's very doubtful he'll waive his NTC. Hopefully Carlos or Rios gets right and becomes the centerpiece slugger next year and we don't need to rely on Paul as much.

It's looking like Dye and Thome could both be gone next year.

I don't expect Paulie (or any team captain) to act like Zambrano or Swisher, however I do expect better post-game sound bytes that show some passion and intensity than the obligatory "let's get them tomorrow" attitude.

One thing I have noticed over the past 10 years or so, compared to when I was younger, was the passive attitude and approach the team has had especially in ballparks that seem to haunt them, i.e. Minnesota, Oakland, etc. I'm tired of hearing it!

I think Hawk is partly to blame because he always talks about it, however I really wish the team would stop using these stupid excuses because they set themselves up to lose before they even play the games!

soxfan1965
08-30-2009, 11:10 AM
Konerko's having a decent year. His numbers have been more consistent than Dye and Thome's this season, and he's on pace to quietly have about 28 hrs, 90 rbi and bat .280 +/-. That's a drop from his '04-'06 numbers, but everyone understood this would be expected when he signed after '05.

Not sure what the other jibberish in your post is about.

I think the relative parity among baseball teams is great - but if this parity
is based on mediocrity, that's not such a good thing. Konerko is having a decent year, but that's expected of him with the salary he makes. I don't think overall he performed well since 2005 considering how he was compensated. I am grateful for Paul for giving us 2005, never thought it would happen. I wonder why baseball can't incorporate more pay for performance like the NFL, asking underperforming players to renegotiate their contracts for the good of the team. Fans end up bearing the burden of underperforming players in the $10M+/year range, and they can't sign other good talent due to this albatross. To me, it is a lack of accountability that makes players say "Ho-Hum" let's get them the next time--as long as I get paid regardless. I know hitting is one of the most difficult things in sports, but if you get paid $10M+/year, do your job or take a pay cut.

ode to veeck
08-30-2009, 11:52 AM
HUH???? He has one of the higher fielding % of his career this year. He is rated number 4 in the AL w considerably more total chances than # 2 and 3. More importantly he leads the AL in range this year.

Thank goodness we have one solid defender on the infield, and Paulie hauls in a ton of really bad throws from the rest of the "new to their position" infielders for every one he doesn't play well.

fuzzy_patters
08-30-2009, 12:26 PM
Thank goodness we have one solid defender on the infield, and Paulie hauls in a ton of really bad throws from the rest of the "new to their position" infielders for every one he doesn't play well.

I don't think it's fair to blame it on guys playing new positions. Ramirez was a shortstop in Cuba. Nix played 788 games at 2B in 8 minor league seasons while Getz played 300 in 5. Gordon Beckham, the only guy truly playing a new position, has played much better there lately.

soxfan1965
08-30-2009, 12:31 PM
Thank goodness we have one solid defender on the infield, and Paulie hauls in a ton of really bad throws from the rest of the "new to their position" infielders for every one he doesn't play well.
That's a good point, Paul is a good defender and saved the rookies from more errors. But that's expected of him. Seems we are in awe of what used to be routine or expected these days. Maybe this is a discussion for another forum, but when I watched the Japan vs Korea WBC final, I was in awe of their grasp of fundamentals (remember Iguchi's fielding from 2005-2006 days?). Do Asia players have the natural talent to play at the MLB level--maybe for the most part no. Do American and Latin players have the talent but lack fundamentals--maybe so. I just hope our young players can in the next few years learn the fundamentals better, the little things, to equal their natural talent. And maybe Korea is an untapped market for future players, given their grasp of fundamentals.

Coolpapa
08-31-2009, 03:17 AM
Scapegoating at it's best. he's going to be hitting 30+ home runs with a .270+ average by the end of the year. He also leads the team in RBI's with 76.

I might need to leave WSI for awhile whilst all this ridiculous scapegoating takes place.

Unless we get some wins, see ya'll in the off season. :gosox:I hope you don't take off. Didn't mean to make my "Jibberish" sound like scapegoating. This guy is no clubhouse leader. He hangs his head after every poor at bat. This team has never been the same since losing Rowand. Aaron and AJ are team leaders.

Coolpapa
08-31-2009, 03:20 AM
Huh?
That is concerning Paul's "execution" retort to Pods "intensity" comment. Or maybe just "Jibberish"

hawkjt
08-31-2009, 09:24 AM
I understood Pods mild comments regarding the Sox needing to play with a sense of urgency, yet, I did not really take issue with PK's comments when told of Pods comments.
Pods is a lead-off guy, who is all about getting on base,however possible, then running and disrupting...more of an intensity player.
PK's comments correctly indicated that squeezing the bat harder does not work in baseball.
I doubt either guy would take issue with the others comments.
It is almost like as a collective group, Sox need to play with urgency.
But, individually,they need to relax and let it flow.
Both guys are right.