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View Full Version : *Official* 8-26 Papi>>>Pena Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
08-26-2009, 08:43 PM
Don't worry, folks. We'll be out of it soon enough.

captainclutch24
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
Great trade

soltrain21
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
This is my most hated Sox team ever. And I really, really hated last year's team.

DaveFeelsRight
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
:whiner:

whitesoxfan
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
Are we even going to win a game on this trip?

peelwonder
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
Nice ****ing trade for Pena Kenny....

Konerko05
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
I should have left the game turned off.

Damn Podsednik and his false hope.

Woofer
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
****ing steroid using cheater. Mother****er!

Patrick134
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
With the Tigers going down today, it's no harm done. Get them tomorrow.

DaveFeelsRight
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
This is my most hated Sox team ever. And I really, really hated last year's team.so the 2007 team was much better?

whitesoxfan
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
This is my most hated Sox team ever. And I really, really hated last year's team.

At least last year's team nearly won 90 games.

GoGoCrede
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
I decided to put off going to the library for five minutes, and I was just in time for the walkoff. :angry: Let this be a lesson, kids: go study.

ndgt10
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
Great comeback, but Big Papi proved to be just too much. Damn I wish that was the Sox celebrating like that, hopefully tommorrow.

I think it's a must win tommorrow.

Brian26
08-26-2009, 08:45 PM
Can we have Brandon Allen back now?

aryzner
08-26-2009, 08:45 PM
Once the Sox didn't score in the top of the 9th I knew they'd get walked off right away in the bottom 9.

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 08:45 PM
Nobody's surprised at this point. The least they could do is be courteous and find new ways to kick us in the pants.

Thatguyoverthere
08-26-2009, 08:45 PM
This is my most hated Sox team ever. And I really, really hated last year's team.Amen. The offseason can't come soon enough.

Brian26
08-26-2009, 08:45 PM
Are we even going to win a game on this trip?

8-0 from here out.

:thumbsup:

whitesoxfan
08-26-2009, 08:45 PM
With the Tigers going down today, it's no harm done. Get them tomorrow.

Uh, WHAT?

You can't be serious. We're 4 1/2 out, not 1 or 2 games out. It's the 3rd game we've pissed away in three straight days. The Tigers just lost the finale of their road trip before they go back to Comerica (where they hardly ever lose).

You seriously can't believe what you just posted.

kravdog
08-26-2009, 08:46 PM
Bears regular season can not get here quick enough!

MarkZ35
08-26-2009, 08:46 PM
Well on the brightside .... Nevermind

soltrain21
08-26-2009, 08:46 PM
so the 2007 team was much better?

They just weren't good. I didn't hate them.

Big D
08-26-2009, 08:46 PM
You really shouldn't even be allowed to talk about a pennant race when you're under .500. Right now, it's pointless to worry about what the Tigers are doing.

MarkZ35
08-26-2009, 08:46 PM
Are we even going to win a game on this trip?
I wouldn't get my hopes up

GoGoCrede
08-26-2009, 08:47 PM
They just weren't good. I didn't hate them.

There was no false hope with the 2007 team. They were done by mid-May. This team keeps dragging out our hope.

edit - But go Sox. I'll keep watching as long as you keep playing.

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 08:47 PM
You really shouldn't even be allowed to talk about a pennant race when you're under .500. Right now, it's pointless to worry about what the Tigers are doing.

Truth has been spoken. Win more games than you lose, then tell me this team is playoff worthy.

whitesoxfan
08-26-2009, 08:47 PM
There was no false hope with the 2007 team. They were done by mid-May. This team keeps dragging out our hope.

edit - But go Sox. I'll keep watching as long as you keep playing.

I think the hope's just about shot now.

pczarapa
08-26-2009, 08:47 PM
Bears regular season can not get here quick enough!

Amen to that

JB98
08-26-2009, 08:47 PM
I'd hit Ortiz in the head tomorrow. Run the ****ing bases and act like you've hit a home run before, steroids-using *****.

Tragg
08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
The trade was poorly conceived- top prospect for a middle-reliever talent; and poorly executed: Pena blows.

He gave up the winning homer, but the real problem is corpse ball - score 2 runs won't win dick in Fenway Park or anyway else.

1989
08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
The White Sox just make me sad now :(:

ndgt10
08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
Pena has been struggling as of late. He has electrifying stuff, maybe he just needs a stint in the minors to get his confidence back up.

kittle42
08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
So far, best postgame thread in a while. Everyone is simply defeated.

Under .500! YES! HELL YES!

Patrick134
08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
There was no false hope with the 2007 team. They were done by mid-May. This team keeps dragging out our hope.

edit - But go Sox. I'll keep watching as long as you keep playing.


Aside from possibly the day of the perfect game, has there been much hope here ? Before or after? This team never teased us with anything better than mediocrity this season. Yet.

Dibbs
08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
Nice trade Kenny. Pena is a bum. The losses are hurting less and less each day. That is a good thing, but I think it means the end is near.

Noneck
08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
With the Tigers going down today, it's no harm done. Get them tomorrow.

Yea You are right, MLB just extended the season. The season now officially ends the day after the Sox get into 1st. The 162 season is over.

Johnny Mostil
08-26-2009, 08:49 PM
Truth has been spoken. Win more games than you lose, then tell me this team is playoff worthy.

Ditto . . .

GoGoCrede
08-26-2009, 08:49 PM
So far, best postgame thread in a while. Everyone is simply defeated.

Under .500! YES! HELL YES!

Excuse you, wait till the weather warms up!

:D:

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 08:49 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we had two baserunners in exactly two innings tonight, right?

michned
08-26-2009, 08:49 PM
The White Sox just make me sad now :(:

I know, it's not even fun to vent anymore.

Patrick134
08-26-2009, 08:50 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we had two baserunners in exactly two innings tonight, right?


They won with 3 solo shots. It was white sox offense all around tonight.

Bulls_Fan
08-26-2009, 08:50 PM
When will it be alright to rip into Alex Rios?

StillMissOzzie
08-26-2009, 08:50 PM
**** **** **** **** ****!

If the Twinkies come back now, it's welcome to Thirdplaceville. Population: Us

And a big GO **** YOURSELF goes back out to the lying, cheating scum known as Big Papi.

SMO
:angry::whiner::mad:

Thatguyoverthere
08-26-2009, 08:51 PM
I feel bad for Floyd. The Sox couldn't even hit Tim Wakefield. By the third time through the order seeing the same god damn pitch fifteen times, there's no excuse not to hit him.

veeter
08-26-2009, 08:51 PM
I'm as emotionless as the Sox are right now. They're not even worth watching. As someone said yesterday, all the moves Kenny has made will probably pay more dividends next year. Right now the team has no flow, mojo, identity...nothing. I'll probably keep watching even though I know it will be ugly.

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 08:51 PM
They won with 3 solo shots. It was white sox offense all around tonight.

But they won. The point is that our offense **** the bed yet again.

ndgt10
08-26-2009, 08:51 PM
When will it be alright to rip into Alex Rios?
He had a hit tonight and also 2 hits a few games ago against the Royals.

Woofer
08-26-2009, 08:51 PM
I think losing like this is worse then getting bashed around. When you are getting killed, sometimes you can just turn it off and walk away. This is much more painful, because you know they are going to lose, it's just a matter of when and how. These guys are flat out playing like they don't give a crap, I am not a happy camper right now. This sucks!

chisoxfanatic
08-26-2009, 08:52 PM
With the Tigers going down today, it's no harm done. Get them tomorrow.
:o:
Uh, WHAT?

You can't be serious. We're 4 1/2 out, not 1 or 2 games out. It's the 3rd game we've pissed away in three straight days. The Tigers just lost the finale of their road trip before they go back to Comerica (where they hardly ever lose).

You seriously can't believe what you just posted.
THANK YOU!!!

You can't give away games like they've done a ton of times this year.

Red Barchetta
08-26-2009, 08:52 PM
I'm just pretending the Rockies are really the White Sox. It's not too hard when they wear their home pinstripes...

I know we had 2005, however I would love for a SOX team to completely tear it up the second half of the season...

I never thought after reaching the 5 games over .500 highpoint and tying the Tigers for first, we would ever be below .500 again this season. Ugh! :whiner:

popilius
08-26-2009, 08:52 PM
Once the Sox didn't score in the top of the 9th I knew they'd get walked off right away in the bottom 9.

Yes, the walkoff made perfect sense. And I'm not being sarcastic. Everyone watching the game on tv or in the stands knew exactly what Ortiz was trying to do, and the Sox let it happen. It felt perfect. Unfortunately, perfectly sour for us.

Aaaaargh.

:gulp:

soltrain21
08-26-2009, 08:52 PM
I feel bad for Floyd. The Sox couldn't even hit Tim Wakefield. By the third time through the order seeing the same god damn pitch fifteen times, there's no excuse not to hit him.

Knuckeballs don't move the same way every time.

BadBobbyJenks
08-26-2009, 08:52 PM
Lol lets pin this one on Kenny for Pena. So ****ing predictable.

Dibbs
08-26-2009, 08:53 PM
As someone said yesterday, all the moves Kenny has made will probably pay more dividends next year.

I am pretty confident Pena is not going to help us next year either.

pczarapa
08-26-2009, 08:53 PM
Nice trade Kenny. Pena is a bum. The losses are hurting less and less each day. That is a good thing, but I think it means the end is near.

Pena hasn't impressed me, but Rios and Kotsay haven't done crap either. Maybe Peavy can go every other day in September.

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 08:53 PM
Excuse you, wait till the weather warms up!

:D:

Post of the week.

soxfanreggie
08-26-2009, 08:53 PM
This one gave me that sick feeling in my stomach. I had to sit through the last part and couldn't help but think of how we were going to collapse.

soltrain21
08-26-2009, 08:54 PM
Why does Cowley cover the White Sox? That guy is such a ****ing dick.

soxyess
08-26-2009, 08:54 PM
When will it be alright to rip into Alex Rios?

Patience with Rios he's pressing. He has a nice swing. He will hit soon enough, and he will have a great 2010

Frankfan4life
08-26-2009, 08:55 PM
This is my most hated Sox team ever. And I really, really hated last year's team.Why? We won the division last year. Right now this team is in competition with the extreme "horribleness" of the 2007 season.

pczarapa
08-26-2009, 08:56 PM
Patience with Rios he's pressing. He has a nice swing. He will hit soon enough, and he will have a great 2010

Hopefully he'll hit over .200, hasn't passed that plateau yet with the Sox

soltrain21
08-26-2009, 08:56 PM
Why? We won the division last year. Right now this team is in competition with the extreme "horribleness" of the 2007 season.

I hate how both teams are constructed. Situational hitting is completely non existent. This isn't fun baseball to watch.

Cuck the Fubs
08-26-2009, 08:57 PM
go bears!

Shoeless_Jeff
08-26-2009, 08:57 PM
This team is finished. No stones.

Marqhead
08-26-2009, 08:58 PM
It seems like most of the anger has subsided, and depression has set in. I'll still follow the team, but I'm tired and close to being defeated.

So much talent, so few positive results.

nsolo
08-26-2009, 08:58 PM
Patience with Rios he's pressing. He has a nice swing. He will hit soon enough, and he will have a great 2010

You bet he will! Just wait until Walker works his magic.

pczarapa
08-26-2009, 08:58 PM
Why? We won the division last year. Right now this team is in competition with the extreme "horribleness" of the 2007 season.

Yeah, I actually loved the way the team won last year. Especially after the Twinkies acted like the won the World Series after sweeping the Sox in the final week. To be honest, I don't think the Tigers or the Sox have a great chance to do damage in the playoffs.

chisoxfanatic
08-26-2009, 08:59 PM
go bears!
Yea, the Bears are nice and all, but nothing compares to:

LET'S GO HAWKS!!! LET'S GO HAWKS!!! LET'S GO HAWKS!!! LET'S GO HAWKS!!!

:gulp:

kittle42
08-26-2009, 08:59 PM
Here's looking forward to *really* not caring in September!

Remember when both sides of town were looking at that makeup game 9/3 as a "playoff implications" game?

Chicago baseball - catch the fever!

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 08:59 PM
It seems like most of the anger has subsided, and depression has set in. I'll still follow the team, but I'm tired and close to being defeated.

So much talent, so few positive results.

I went through that last night. It sucked hard. But now I'm dead inside when it comes to this team. I just watch because I know there isn't much baseball left.

BadBobbyJenks
08-26-2009, 08:59 PM
It seems like most of the anger has subsided, and depression has set in. I'll still follow the team, but I'm tired and close to being defeated.

So much talent, so few positive results.


Yeah I am about as lifeless as the team is right now.

1989
08-26-2009, 09:00 PM
It seems like most of the anger has subsided, and depression has set in. I'll still follow the team, but I'm tired and close to being defeated.

So much talent, so few positive results.

This. Kenny hit the nail on the head with that comment and now it is more apparent than ever.

Waysouthsider
08-26-2009, 09:01 PM
Well, the starters have been getting it done...where in the flying **** did the bats go? If we had a little room to move the bullpen would be less of an issue....did JD age thirty years since the break?

:whiner::whiner::whiner:

Brian26
08-26-2009, 09:02 PM
He gave up the winning homer, but the real problem is corpse ball - score 2 runs won't win dick in Fenway Park or anyway else.

There's a Dick Stockton joke in there somewhere, but I'm too tired to look for it.

GoGoCrede
08-26-2009, 09:02 PM
Post of the week.

Thanks. I've always tried to keep my head up about this team, but it sucks. Again, it will be a rough night for Rongey.

Now I really am going to the library to study. Seriously.

The news about Peavy not pitching this week was a real capper to the day.

Thatguyoverthere
08-26-2009, 09:03 PM
This. Kenny hit the nail on the head with that comment and now it is more apparent than ever.Another "on paper" superiorly talented team falling on its face. Sounds familiar.

Brian26
08-26-2009, 09:03 PM
Aside from possibly the day of the perfect game, has there been much hope here ? Before or after? This team never teased us with anything better than mediocrity this season. Yet.

That homestand against NYY and LAA made us seem pretty good for a week. Until we lost 2 of 3 to Cleveland.

Rockabilly
08-26-2009, 09:05 PM
We should have won all 3 games aganist Boston

Brian26
08-26-2009, 09:06 PM
I'm as emotionless as the Sox are right now. They're not even worth watching. As someone said yesterday, all the moves Kenny has made will probably pay more dividends next year. Right now the team has no flow, mojo, identity...nothing.

The unfortunate part is that there's nothing to hang your hat on this year. There's no Paniagua meltdown. There's no Neal Cotts-at-Yankee Stadium. There's no Torii Hunter play-at-the-plate. There's no Mags and Frank-went-down-with-injuries.

It's almost beneficial to have a rallying cry for 2010 other than we suck.

DrCrawdad
08-26-2009, 09:07 PM
With the Tigers going down today, it's no harm done. Get them tomorrow.

Nothing lost, but nothing gained.

The Sox stink to under .500.

nsolo
08-26-2009, 09:07 PM
Although our offense has sucked, not only this year but for quite some time, lets not forget this year "stellar" defense when considering our lot.

GoGoCrede
08-26-2009, 09:08 PM
I thought we'd sunk our lowest during the first game in this series, but this is even worse. Maybe now that we've sunk this low, things can only get better. Stranger things have happened. :gulp:

DickAllen72
08-26-2009, 09:11 PM
go bears!
Buck the fears.

roylestillman
08-26-2009, 09:12 PM
Another "on paper" superiorly talented team falling on its face. Sounds familiar.
I'm not so sure they look good on paper anymore. This was like the AAA team takes on the big league team.

guillensdisciple
08-26-2009, 09:12 PM
Two thoughts:

1. I am going to float the idea out there that this team was just never very good. This whole season I kept on saying that if this then that, but the if never happened and there was no then consequently. This team has had all the tools all along to win, but there are only two reasons I can find to explain why the Sox have had troubles with getting over that hump of playing excellent baseball. The core of this team has been devolving since 2005: Paulie, J.D, and Thome have all been slipping- and yes they have always been great guys but they seem to have emptier and emptier stats each year (they might get their numbers, but it seems like they get the numbers at times that don't matter). Without Quentin and Alexei last year the White Sox suck it up like 2007, the old core has had almost nothing to do with our success except for the ocassional wow moment where they hit a nice home run. This year Carlos is dead, Alexei has worsened a bit, but Gordon Beckham has stepped in a little to even things out. Again, it just seems like the middle of the order has less and less to do with it every year. The other cause for that could be the fact that Ozzie and the coaching staff have lost touch with the team as the years progressed, but that seems less likely as the new guys play well but the old guys just get old and play worse.

2. I really dislike what Ozzie said earlier today about him knowing that the White Sox will snap out of it. I honestly believe that people know what they see when it is in front of them, and I don't like all this false hope crap. Yes, it is bad from a marketing stand point, but is it that difficult to say "the way we are currently playing we will not win anything this year- we are in dire straights and need to do something to win, because we are playing horrible baseball and I am sorry for the organization". I can respect that- I can take that and understand that the manager cares and that they are trying but things are not working. Instead of giving me that moment of hope that they will be fine, just come out and be straight with me. There is nothing worse in this world than lying.

DickAllen72
08-26-2009, 09:12 PM
Yea, the Bears are nice and all, but nothing compares to:

LET'S GO HAWKS!!! LET'S GO HAWKS!!! LET'S GO HAWKS!!! LET'S GO HAWKS!!!

:gulp:
Ugh.

Dan H
08-26-2009, 09:21 PM
With the Tigers going down today, it's no harm done. Get them tomorrow.

You have got to be kidding.

kobo
08-26-2009, 09:22 PM
This team has had all the tools all along to win,
This is not true. Starting the season with Wise as the leadoff hitter and starting CF, Fields at 3rd, a rookie at 2nd, a 2nd year player playing SS for the first time in MLB, and 2 question marks in the 4 and 5 spots in the rotation was not a winning formula. It was a gamble by KW that did not work out. Now, KW has made moves and has strengthened the team for the next couple years, but the first couple months of the season were bad. If this team had played winning baseball in April and May they'd probably be in first. But the beginning of the season with some of the crap that was on the field was not a winning team.

GoGoCrede
08-26-2009, 09:27 PM
Buck the fears.

Buck Foston, more like.

And do avoid the sweep.

Per Cowley (I know the guy's a tool but he has player quotes):

PK: "Just to throw all the intensity in and say, ĎLetís go,í Iím not a big believer in that. I donít think it works in this game.

nsolo
08-26-2009, 09:28 PM
I was looking at the box score and I noticed that Paulie hit a triple!?!? Mr. "your grandma can run faster with her shoe laces tied together" with a triple? Is the box score wrong? Since I wasn't able to see the game, enlighten me.

GoGoCrede
08-26-2009, 09:29 PM
I was looking at the box score and I noticed that Paulie hit a triple!?!? Mr. "your grandma can run faster with her shoe laces tied together" with a triple? Is the box score wrong? Since I wasn't able to see the game, enlighten me.

Yes he did. I immediately went to hide the children for fear of doomsday.

DirtySox
08-26-2009, 09:29 PM
Buck Foston, more like.

And do avoid the sweep.

Per Cowley (I know the guy's a tool but he has player quotes):

PK: "Just to throw all the intensity in and say, ‘Let’s go,’ I’m not a big believer in that. I don’t think it works in this game.

I'm hoping we don't fall to the "Pitcher We've Never Seen Before" curse tomorrow. Tomorrow is the Last Sox game I will be able to watch for about a week, so it'd be nice to see a good one.

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 09:29 PM
I was looking at the box score and I noticed that Paulie hit a triple!?!? Mr. "your grandma can run faster with her shoe laces tied together" with a triple? Is the box score wrong? Since I wasn't able to see the game, enlighten me.

He hit a ball over Ellsbury's head, it took a high bounce off of the center field wall, then bounced off the center field "corner" before Ellsbury could get a hand on it. Paulie got into 3rd standing up.

guillensdisciple
08-26-2009, 09:30 PM
I will still stick to my complaint that for such a big city, Chicago baseball teams show the result of small market teams. Chicago just never had a good baseball history, and yes I know we have played good baseball for 9 years now, but maybe 2 or 3 championships in 90 some odd years is not too much to ask for.

I guess I got greedy with that one championship, I wonder how Yankees and Red Sox fans feel to have so many of them lying around.

Oh well, I love this franchise, and I love this team. I will stick with them if they don't win a world series for another 80 years. It just saddens me to know that the city I love so much puts such crappy products on the field sometimes.

nsolo
08-26-2009, 09:32 PM
He hit a ball over Ellsbury's head, it took a high bounce off of the center field wall, then bounced off the center field "corner" before Ellsbury could get a hand on it. Paulie got into 3rd standing up.

Thank you. Hard to believe, but thanks.

kittle42
08-26-2009, 09:32 PM
I'm hoping we don't fall to the "Pitcher We've Never Seen Before" curse tomorrow. Tomorrow is the Last Sox game I will be able to watch for about a week, so it'd be nice to see a good one.

There is no such thing.

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 09:33 PM
I will still stick to my complaint that for such a big city, Chicago baseball teams show the result of small market teams. Chicago just never had a good baseball history, and yes I know we have played good baseball for 9 years now, but maybe 2 or 3 championships in 90 some odd years is not too much to ask for.

I guess I got greedy with that one championship, I wonder how Yankees and Red Sox fans feel to have so many of them lying around.

Oh well, I love this franchise, and I love this team. I will stick with them if they don't win a world series for another 80 years. It just saddens me to know that the city I love so much puts such crappy products on the field sometimes.

You mean the three they have in the last hundred years(ish)? I get your point, but Boston doesn't have anywhere near the championship pedigree that the Yanks and say, the Cards do. Unless you're listening to a Blow Sox fan's side of the story.

hawkjt
08-26-2009, 09:34 PM
In the recent past the Sox hit around .258-.263 as a team but overcame due to the homers. This year, the homers have gone down and .260 is not good enough unless you hit .300 with RISP like minny.
I lay it on our offense again tonite,altho it would be nice for Pena to get thru one stinkin inning without giving up a run once in awhile.

Hawk sounded totally defeated tonite...the passion was gone..no ''wish I could cuss''...a man can only take so much.

I am bitterly disapointed in JD,Alex,Alexei this last week while Thome,PK,and Carlos have been only slightly better. Those are our big guns and they have what Ozzie called ''tight asses''...meanwhile, the only guy talking about urgency, Pods, is getting hits,and still getting hammered by the fans and talkradio.
Gordon and Nix are rookies, they should not be the one depended on.

Bullpen is just good enough to get beat.
Gavin and Freddie were great.
Peavy gets hit by a liner from the last batter he faces, and now he is set back...just not our month. Sept must be better.

guillensdisciple
08-26-2009, 09:35 PM
You mean the three they have in the last hundred years(ish)? I get your point, but Boston doesn't have anywhere near the championship pedigree that the Yanks and say, the Cards do. Unless you're listening to a Blow Sox fan's side of the story.


Their recent success sort of takes away from their troubled past, but I should have made a better argument than that. Regardless, if the White Sox were doing what the Red Sox have been doing for the past 8 or so years, I would be a very happy soul.

nsolo
08-26-2009, 09:35 PM
I will still stick to my complaint that for such a big city, Chicago baseball teams show the result of small market teams. Chicago just never had a good baseball history, and yes I know we have played good baseball for 9 years now, but maybe 2 or 3 championships in 90 some odd years is not too much to ask for.

I guess I got greedy with that one championship, I wonder how Yankees and Red Sox fans feel to have so many of them lying around.

Oh well, I love this franchise, and I love this team. I will stick with them if they don't win a world series for another 80 years. It just saddens me to know that the city I love so much puts such crappy products on the field sometimes.

What he said. Is it because Boston and Yankee fans demand more? Is is because we are so used to mediocre teams? Could you imagine the fans response is this same team was home to the Bronx?

hawkjt
08-26-2009, 09:37 PM
One thing I have to say...Wakeman's knuckler was very good tonite and he threw it for strikes...a lot. Not saying we should not hit it ,but it was moving a couple of feet...hence we looked like we had no chance against him.

just our luck to catch the guy coming off the DL and he is lites out.

Dan H
08-26-2009, 09:38 PM
This is not true. Starting the season with Wise as the leadoff hitter and starting CF, Fields at 3rd, a rookie at 2nd, a 2nd year player playing SS for the first time in MLB, and 2 question marks in the 4 and 5 spots in the rotation was not a winning formula. It was a gamble by KW that did not work out. Now, KW has made moves and has strengthened the team for the next couple years, but the first couple months of the season were bad. If this team had played winning baseball in April and May they'd probably be in first. But the beginning of the season with some of the crap that was on the field was not a winning team.

I agree with this. The season started with so many question marks. KW was hoping just about everything would just fall in place and that wasn't likely to happen. If just one or two things didn't work out, the losing would start. And it did.

I also agree that time has passed Konerko, Dye, and Thome by. I like all three guys, but they have all aged and the team stuck with them too long. One way or the other, at least two of these three need to go. It is time to turn the page.

russ99
08-26-2009, 09:39 PM
Why is everyone blaming the reliever of the day for our losing streak?

How many guys are we getting in scoring position and not bringing in? Gotta be in the 20's for the last week alone.

But hey, 32 more games and Walker and the "HR or nothing" philosophy gets kicked to the curb, and hopefully we get a new instructor with a focus on contact over power, situational hitting, adjustments, reviewing video and all the things the rest of the league does so their hitters can be successful.

I just hope Rios hasn't been messed up beyond repair...

guillensdisciple
08-26-2009, 09:39 PM
What he said. Is it because Boston and Yankee fans demand more? Is is because we are so used to mediocre teams? Could you imagine the fans response is this same team was home to the Bronx?

I have always made that argument when speaking of why the Cubs will never win. The fans show love even when the team sucks by going to the game.

White Sox fans don't have that problem though- we have always showed our displeasure when we had to, but have never gotten much out of it. So maybe you have a point- maybe we have relegated ourselves to mediocrity.
A shame on these teams for playing for such great fans.

doublem23
08-26-2009, 09:44 PM
There was no false hope with the 2007 team. They were done by mid-May. This team keeps dragging out our hope.

edit - But go Sox. I'll keep watching as long as you keep playing.

:scratch:

The Sox were above .500 until May 29 that year.

JB98
08-26-2009, 09:45 PM
Why is everyone blaming the reliever of the day for our losing streak?

How many guys are we getting in scoring position and not bringing in? Gotta be in the 20's for the last week alone.

But hey, 32 more games and Walker and the "HR or nothing" philosophy gets kicked to the curb, and hopefully we get a new instructor with a focus on contact over power, situational hitting, adjustments, reviewing video and all the things the rest of the league does so their hitters can be successful.

I just hope Rios hasn't been messed up beyond repair...

They're going to fire him with three games left? :D:

ChiSoxGirl
08-26-2009, 09:46 PM
****ing steroid using cheater. Mother****er!

You got it. He can go to hell right along with the other steroid users.

I'd hit Ortiz in the head tomorrow. Run the ****ing bases and act like you've hit a home run before, steroids-using *****.

YES!!!! OMG, there's nothing more annoying to me than a ballplayer who stands there and watches his home run ball. Ortiz looked like such an arrogant ass standing there like it's the first time he ever hit one outta the ballpark. Hello, *******, you hit one like an hour and a half ago, too! :angry: :angry: :angry:

**** **** **** **** ****!

If the Twinkies come back now, it's welcome to Thirdplaceville. Population: Us

And a big GO **** YOURSELF goes back out to the lying, cheating scum known as Big Papi.

SMO
:angry::whiner::mad:

This.

GoGoCrede
08-26-2009, 09:46 PM
:scratch:

The Sox were above .500 until May 29 that year.

My bad. Thing is, though, you kind of had a clear picture of who that team was. This team is baffling. Regardless, I'll still be wearing my Sox shirt tomorrow.

nsolo
08-26-2009, 09:47 PM
But hey, 32 more games and Walker and the "HR or nothing" philosophy gets kicked to the curb, and hopefully we get a new instructor with a focus on contact over power, situational hitting, adjustments, reviewing video and all the things the rest of the league does so their hitters can be successful.

I just hope Rios hasn't been messed up beyond repair...

You mean we DON'T do that? Since I don't know, is it true that our hitters don't practice what you hope a new hitting instructor will do?

doublem23
08-26-2009, 09:48 PM
The trade was poorly conceived- top prospect for a middle-reliever talent; and poorly executed: Pena blows.

He gave up the winning homer, but the real problem is corpse ball - score 2 runs won't win dick in Fenway Park or anyway else.

Brandon Allen was not a top prospect, he only was in our still developing farm system.

Anyways, the book is still out on Pena, Gavin Floyd looked absolutely horrendous his entire 1st season in Chicago (what little time he actually spent here) and John Danks couldn't even get to the finish line in 2007.

Even in his struggles this season, Ortiz is still slugging .435. Giving up a solo shot to him isn't the biggest surprise in the world.

tstrike2000
08-26-2009, 09:49 PM
This sucks. 63-64, it's gonna be hard to catch a mediocre Tiger team with a below .500 record.

doublem23
08-26-2009, 09:49 PM
Yea You are right, MLB just extended the season. The season now officially ends the day after the Sox get into 1st. The 162 season is over.

This is why I advocate for teal. None of these posts would be necessary.

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 09:49 PM
Brandon Allen was not a top prospect, he only was in our still developing farm system.

Anyways, the book is still out on Pena, Gavin Floyd looked absolutely horrendous his entire 1st season in Chicago (what little time he actually spent here) and John Danks couldn't even get to the finish line in 2007.

Even in his struggles this season, Ortiz is still slugging .435. Giving up a solo shot to him isn't the biggest surprise in the world.

Two of them is a little upsetting. He isn't half the hitter he was in the last few years.

doublem23
08-26-2009, 09:50 PM
I'm as emotionless as the Sox are right now. They're not even worth watching. As someone said yesterday, all the moves Kenny has made will probably pay more dividends next year. Right now the team has no flow, mojo, identity...nothing. I'll probably keep watching even though I know it will be ugly.

They have an identity. They ****ing suck. :angry:

BoysMom3
08-26-2009, 09:51 PM
+1 to what ChiSoxGirl said. And the Twins are losing by 4 in the 9th. I'm seriously starting to lose my hope for the first time this year. Although I don't feel that all hope is gone.

So glad we don't get the dreaded CIU channel on a night like tonight. :angry:

nsolo
08-26-2009, 09:52 PM
This is why I advocate for teal. None of these posts would be necessary.
If my math is correct, our magic number would be 41? Is that better?

doublem23
08-26-2009, 09:55 PM
Their recent success sort of takes away from their troubled past, but I should have made a better argument than that. Regardless, if the White Sox were doing what the Red Sox have been doing for the past 8 or so years, I would be a very happy soul.

Winning World Series with roided up players?

guillensdisciple
08-26-2009, 09:57 PM
Winning World Series with roided up players?


There is a bunch of uncertainty everywhere now-a-days, and I would not be surprised to find a White Sox played took roids. I am not assuming that he did, but it would not shock me.

Winning a world series when the rest of the world is on steroids is still something to be proud of.

BoysMom3
08-26-2009, 09:58 PM
Yay, Twins lose. They suck.

doublem23
08-26-2009, 09:58 PM
If my math is correct, our magic number would be 41? Is that better?

What the hell are you talking about? The post that everyone is quoting is obviously sarcastic... It's dripping with it. Yet, there's still at least 5-6 posters with the obvious, "OMG!! R U SERIOZ?" line because they need sarcasm to bluntly strike them in the face.

Teal. It's your friend. :hug:

guillensdisciple
08-26-2009, 10:01 PM
What the hell are you talking about? The post that everyone is quoting is obviously sarcastic... It's dripping with it. Yet, there's still at least 5-6 posters with the obvious, "OMG!! R U SERIOZ?" line because they need sarcasm to bluntly strike them in the face.

Teal. It's your friend. :hug:




BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The way I read that had me laughing out loud for a good 30 seconds. You did not mean to make that funny, but the serioz killed it. Hats off sir, hats off.

october23sp
08-26-2009, 10:02 PM
Sigh..:(:. We are awful.

2010.:gulp:

Big D
08-26-2009, 10:02 PM
There is a bunch of uncertainty everywhere now-a-days, and I would not be surprised to find a White Sox played took roids. I am not assuming that he did, but it would not shock me.

Winning a world series when the rest of the world is on steroids is still something to be proud of.

There's what, 100 players on that list that haven't been named yet? Divide that by 30 teams, and that's more than 3 players per team. Obviously it didn't work out that neatly, but it sure is possible there are some Sox players on that list. I highly doubt our players in 2005 were any more or less moral or ethical than Boston's players in 2004, or than any other baseball team the last 20 years (well, except maybe the 90's Texas Rangers teams - those guys were a bunch of roid freaks).

russ99
08-26-2009, 10:03 PM
You mean we DON'T do that? Since I don't know, is it true that our hitters don't practice what you hope a new hitting instructor will do?

Well, it's obvious what we've seen on the field for the last 3 seasons, and there was that report earlier in the year from a team (out of Oakland?) claiming that the Sox are easier to pitch against than other teams since they don't do some of those things.

Of course it's up to the players to produce, and a change in coaching staff won't fix everything, but it seems a change is long overdue.

If the Sox continue this and fall out of the race, I have zero doubt that Kenny will make some changes. I just hope Ozzie doesn't get axed too.


BTW - forgot to count the October games. There's 35 games left.

BoysMom3
08-26-2009, 10:03 PM
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The way I read that had me laughing out loud for a good 30 seconds. You did not mean to make that funny, but the serioz killed it. Hats off sir, hats off.

Me too! "Serioz" cracked me up so bad yo, LOL!

doublem23
08-26-2009, 10:05 PM
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The way I read that had me laughing out loud for a good 30 seconds. You did not mean to make that funny, but the serioz killed it. Hats off sir, hats off.

I'm sorry, one of my biggest pet peeves on these boards is when people rip on teal because "we don't need it," then someone posts something that is blatantly sarcastic (like saying 'it's OK, we lost to Boston again, Detroit lost, too, so it's still OK'), and then 5-6 people unnecessarily quote that with the standard, "this is dumb," which is at least kind of funny because they're the ones who really look dumb.

Yet all that could be fixed with a simple color change.

guillensdisciple
08-26-2009, 10:05 PM
Me too! "Serioz" cracked me up so bad yo, LOL!


I just went back and re-read it, and still got a kick out of it.

Ahh, that just made up for a night of dread over the White Sox.

GoGoCrede
08-26-2009, 10:05 PM
Me too! "Serioz" cracked me up so bad yo, LOL!

Oh man, me too. I'm holding down laughs in the library. The emoticon at the end killed me.

WSI is nothing if not entertaining after a bad Sox loss.

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 10:07 PM
There's what, 100 players on that list that haven't been named yet? Divide that by 30 teams, and that's more than 3 players per team. Obviously it didn't work out that neatly, but it sure is possible there are some Sox players on that list. I highly doubt our players in 2005 were any more or less moral or ethical than Boston's players in 2004, or than any other baseball team the last 20 years (well, except maybe the 90's Texas Rangers teams - those guys were a bunch of roid freaks).

Not quite. You're forgetting Tony LaRussa-managed teams. They have to have at least seven or eight per squad.

socaljeff
08-26-2009, 10:08 PM
Bears regular season can not get here quick enough!

Bears are a 9-7 team at best ... Go Chargers!! And Cardinals, Rockies, Giants, Braves & Marlins!! Cubs Blow!!

BoysMom3
08-26-2009, 10:09 PM
Oh, Gogocrede, it's so hard not to laugh when you're somewhere like the library!

I am serious though when I say I'm glad the Twins lost tonight. Doesn't make anything all better, but at least they didn't pass us up. And I will not add "yet" because that would make me so :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

Big D
08-26-2009, 10:09 PM
Not quite. You're forgetting Tony LaRussa-managed teams. They have to have at least seven or eight per squad.

:D::D::D:

That's true. I think his teams subsidize half the steroid dealers in the country.

kitekrazy
08-26-2009, 10:15 PM
Well, it's obvious what we've seen on the field for the last 3 seasons, and there was that report earlier in the year from a team (out of Oakland?) claiming that the Sox are easier to pitch against than other teams since they don't do some of those things.

That seems to be a trend with a team loaded with power hitters. You see the same thing on the North side.

Johnny Mostil
08-26-2009, 10:16 PM
This is why I advocate for teal. None of these posts would be necessary.

OT, but I've been an admirer of Patrick134's work since that disaster of a season in 2007 . . .

kitekrazy
08-26-2009, 10:19 PM
If the Sox continue this and fall out of the race, I have zero doubt that Kenny will make some changes. I just hope Ozzie doesn't get axed too.


#1 priority should be fixing the defense. Way too many unearned runs.

chisoxfanatic
08-26-2009, 10:20 PM
I think we need a late night WSI chat...I'm in there if anyone else wants to join the support group.

Vienna
08-26-2009, 10:25 PM
For me the frustration with the team has been the lack of fundamentals. Defense, as noted. Also the base running -- primarily Pods getting picked off at first, second, or third. Also, the inability to move base runners in from second or third with less than two outs. This team/year has been frustrating. For me the frustration is in the potential. I know (ok feel) this team could be so much better.

Crestani
08-26-2009, 10:32 PM
:bandance: Hi, my name is J. P. Ricciardi and I thank you Kenny Williams!

WhiteSox1989
08-26-2009, 10:33 PM
I'm glad I was in class.


Get 'em tomorrow, and avoid the sweep.

Go Sox.

Lip Man 1
08-26-2009, 10:37 PM
Russ:

Kenny has said repeatedly that he leaves all the coaching staff decisions to Ozzie, he doesn't get involved.

If Ozzie wants all of them back, they stay...it's that simple.

And here are the numbers courtesy of Mark Gonzales. They are pretty awful:

"Entering Tuesday night's game, the Sox were batting .210 with a runner at third base and .204 with runners at second and third. After Wednesday's loss, the Sox are batting .221 with runners in scoring position in their last 22 games."

I assume the numbers for runners on 3rd and runners on 2nd and 3rd are from the last 22 games as well, but who knows they could be for the season. Like playing in Oakland and Minnesota and Toronto and Boston it's become a mental issue for these guys when they come up with runners in scoring position and less than two outs.

Had to get a laugh out of Ozzie's comment after the game, 'the way we're playing it feels like we're 20 games out...'

Preach on Ozzie!

Lip

southsideirish71
08-26-2009, 10:50 PM
Russ:

Kenny has said repeatedly that he leaves all the coaching staff decisions to Ozzie, he doesn't get involved.

If Ozzie wants all of them back, they stay...it's that simple.

And here are the numbers courtesy of Mark Gonzales. They are pretty awful:

"Entering Tuesday night's game, the Sox were batting .210 with a runner at third base and .204 with runners at second and third. After Wednesday's loss, the Sox are batting .221 with runners in scoring position in their last 22 games."

I assume the numbers for runners on 3rd and runners on 2nd and 3rd are from the last 22 games as well, but who knows they could be for the season. Like playing in Oakland and Minnesota and Toronto and Boston it's become a mental issue for these guys when they come up with runners in scoring position and less than two outs.

Had to get a laugh out of Ozzie's comment after the game, 'the way we're playing it feels like we're 20 games out...'

Preach on Ozzie!

Lip

Its like clockwork. The calendar flips from July to August and the team starts to press and forgets how to situational hit. They press and try to hit the ball with all their might instead of squaring it up and making solid contact. This is why year after year we see strikeouts and popups and missed opportunities. It has been a reoccuring theme for years around here. In 05 we were very lucky we padded our lead enough in the first half to withstand our August issues. In 04 we had Kenny come out with a comment after watching Carlos Lee in an post-ASB twins series strike out trying to park one about how if he ever sees another guy swing for the fence when all we need is a single he will throw up. Years later its the same thing. Something needs to change with this. We keep rotating players in, and we see the same issues. Where is the plan. I don't see other teams puckering up when we trot our bullpen out there with men on. Maybe the perfect storm of fail would be to have our late inning hitters face some Tony Pena. I wonder who would come out on top.

At least the Dome will be gone, so invisible dome goblins can stop scaring our team every year when we go up there. Lets just hope that the goblins don't like the outside.

Goodman6
08-26-2009, 10:52 PM
For me the frustration with the team has been the lack of fundamentals. Defense, as noted. Also the base running -- primarily Pods getting picked off at first, second, or third. Also, the inability to move base runners in from second or third with less than two outs. This team/year has been frustrating. For me the frustration is in the potential. I know (ok feel) this team could be so much better.

Vienna: I share your frustration. Allow me to add two more points of frustration:

1) It is frustrating how many times this year we have scored runs and our pitchers immediately give the runs back the very next 1/2 inning. Most leads are short-lived.

2) It is frustrating to watch the weakest hitters in the opponents lineup constantly hurt us. Against Cleveland it was Valbuena, against KC it was Betancourt and Maier, against Baltimore it was Pie, a month ago in Minnesota it was Casilla (hitting .164 at the time) and now Alex Gonzalez has been hurting us this series in Boston. I know others have hurt us in the past month, but these are guys our pitchers should be getting out. Nothing worse than allowing the 8th and 9th place hitters to get on base for the top of the order.

kitekrazy
08-26-2009, 10:55 PM
The calendar flips from July to August and the team starts to press and forgets how to situational hit.


I don't think this team was ever known to situational hit.

TDog
08-27-2009, 12:11 AM
go bears!

May you read people posting "Go White Sox" after every weekly Bears loss. It's a curse that sounds better in Yiddish, really.

Today was a tough loss obviously -- tougher than the 3-2 loss in Oakland when Bobby Jenks gave up the game-ending home run. The White Sox had more chances in that game, but they needed this one more.

I thought the White Sox caught a break when Wakefield left after seven. I don't know why he left. He was unhittable in any case. The White Sox didn't stand a chance against him the way he was throwing strikes, especially called strike one. When a knuckleball pitcher is getting as many called strikes as Wakefield was, it likely will take a shutout to beat him. All he is going to give up are weak ground balls, which won't get the runner home from third with one out, unless you're talking suicide squeeze.

I have never seen a knuckleball pitcher get as so many called strikes. He pitched a phenomenal game.

TDog
08-27-2009, 12:15 AM
...

2) It is frustrating to watch the weakest hitters in the opponents lineup constantly hurt us. Against Cleveland it was Valbuena, against KC it was Betancourt and Maier, against Baltimore it was Pie, a month ago in Minnesota it was Casilla (hitting .164 at the time) and now Alex Gonzalez has been hurting us this series in Boston. I know others have hurt us in the past month, but these are guys our pitchers should be getting out. Nothing worse than allowing the 8th and 9th place hitters to get on base for the top of the order.

Tuesday night, the White Sox hitters had two RBIs, both from Nix in separate at bats. But Red Sox fans don't complain about such things after a win.

Goodman6
08-27-2009, 12:19 AM
Tuesday night, the White Sox hitters had two RBIs, both from Nix in separate at bats. But Red Sox fans don't complain about such things after a win.

You are talking about one game. I was talking about a trend that has been going on against the White Sox over the past several series.

salty99
08-27-2009, 12:28 AM
Can we have Brandon Allen back now?

I am never believing any predictions you make again...8-3 on this road trip....hilarious!

JB98
08-27-2009, 12:30 AM
I am never believing any predictions you make again...8-3 on this road trip....hilarious!

Mathematically, it is still possible.

salty99
08-27-2009, 12:39 AM
Mathematically, it is still possible.

Yes, thanks for pointing that out.

TDog
08-27-2009, 01:34 AM
You are talking about one game. I was talking about a trend that has been going on against the White Sox over the past several series.

It is not unique to the White Sox, and it is not unique to the last several series.

hawkjt
08-27-2009, 01:43 AM
May you read people posting "Go White Sox" after every weekly Bears loss. It's a curse that sounds better in Yiddish, really.

Today was a tough loss obviously -- tougher than the 3-2 loss in Oakland when Bobby Jenks gave up the game-ending home run. The White Sox had more chances in that game, but they needed this one more.

I thought the White Sox caught a break when Wakefield left after seven. I don't know why he left. He was unhittable in any case. The White Sox didn't stand a chance against him the way he was throwing strikes, especially called strike one. When a knuckleball pitcher is getting as many called strikes as Wakefield was, it likely will take a shutout to beat him. All he is going to give up are weak ground balls, which won't get the runner home from third with one out, unless you're talking suicide squeeze.

I have never seen a knuckleball pitcher get as so many called strikes. He pitched a phenomenal game.

Wakefield was unbelievable tonite the way he dropped strike after strike in there with pitches that dropped two feet. We looked hapless.

Domeshot17
08-27-2009, 02:26 AM
My gut says 1 of Kenny or Ozzie has to go in the offseason (unless we get the miracle turn around). At some point Kenny has to be held responsible for the teams he builds, and if the Sox feel he has built a 90 win playoff calibur team, then it means Ozzie has failed as a manager.

Whatever happens, it is clear no one wants to step up and be the leader of this team. The same case was true last year, which leads me to believe Ozzie has lost his clubhouse.

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-27-2009, 04:19 AM
In all fairness to Pena, who has been a disappointment so far, and is a better pitcher IMO than he's producing right now, he gave up a HR to Ortiz. It's not like he gave one up to someone unexpected, or someone with 10 career HR's. Ortiz is a tough out no matter what, and someone that can beat any pitcher, slump or no slump. I'll give him a break tonight, especially because he isn't the only reason that this team has completely fallen apart in Boston.

doublem23
08-27-2009, 05:55 AM
Whatever happens, it is clear no one wants to step up and be the leader of this team. The same case was true last year, which leads me to believe Ozzie has lost his clubhouse.

The Sox would have walked away with the division last year had Carlos not busted up his hand.

ike from nj
08-27-2009, 08:22 AM
May you read people posting "Go White Sox" after every weekly Bears loss. It's a curse that sounds better in Yiddish, really.

Today was a tough loss obviously -- tougher than the 3-2 loss in Oakland when Bobby Jenks gave up the game-ending home run. The White Sox had more chances in that game, but they needed this one more.

I thought the White Sox caught a break when Wakefield left after seven. I don't know why he left. He was unhittable in any case. The White Sox didn't stand a chance against him the way he was throwing strikes, especially called strike one. When a knuckleball pitcher is getting as many called strikes as Wakefield was, it likely will take a shutout to beat him. All he is going to give up are weak ground balls, which won't get the runner home from third with one out, unless you're talking suicide squeeze.

I have never seen a knuckleball pitcher get as so many called strikes. He pitched a phenomenal game.
and that was with no wind!

ike from nj
08-27-2009, 08:27 AM
Tuesday night, the White Sox hitters had two RBIs, both from Nix in separate at bats. But Red Sox fans don't complain about such things after a win.
the redsox won the game...why would they care who got the other teams rbi's. the poster was complaining about game the whitesox lost.

JohnnyInnsbrook
08-27-2009, 09:45 AM
My gut says 1 of Kenny or Ozzie has to go in the offseason (unless we get the miracle turn around). At some point Kenny has to be held responsible for the teams he builds, and if the Sox feel he has built a 90 win playoff calibur team, then it means Ozzie has failed as a manager.

Whatever happens, it is clear no one wants to step up and be the leader of this team. The same case was true last year, which leads me to believe Ozzie has lost his clubhouse.

First of all he has not built a 90 win team, this team was meant to be a team rebuilt on the fly and that could compete in a weak division. Second of all look what Ozzie has done in the 5 years since hes been here, 2 90 win+ teams, 2 division titles, and world championship. That is not a manager that you fire because a team being rebuilt on the fly, with 3 starters, didn't win a division one year.

JohnnyInnsbrook
08-27-2009, 09:49 AM
My gut says 1 of Kenny or Ozzie has to go in the offseason (unless we get the miracle turn around). At some point Kenny has to be held responsible for the teams he builds, and if the Sox feel he has built a 90 win playoff calibur team, then it means Ozzie has failed as a manager.

Whatever happens, it is clear no one wants to step up and be the leader of this team. The same case was true last year, which leads me to believe Ozzie has lost his clubhouse.

And for Kenny, not only is he cleaning up a deteriorated farm system to keep the sox future bright, but hes trying to keep a quality product on the field at the same time. He maybe one of the best GM's out there, but we should get rid of him because they might not win the division this year, give me a break.

hawkjt
08-27-2009, 09:50 AM
My gut says 1 of Kenny or Ozzie has to go in the offseason (unless we get the miracle turn around). At some point Kenny has to be held responsible for the teams he builds, and if the Sox feel he has built a 90 win playoff calibur team, then it means Ozzie has failed as a manager.

Whatever happens, it is clear no one wants to step up and be the leader of this team. The same case was true last year, which leads me to believe Ozzie has lost his clubhouse.


No offense, but there is about a 0% chance of that happening.
JD and co. cannot hit there way outta paper bag and it is Ozzie and Kenny's fault? Ridiculous. If anything, this is on mother nature and aging.
To suggest that there are some magic words that a LaRussa or Scoscia could whisper in the ears of JD,PK,Thome, or Jose and turn them around is a pipedream. They are slumping,just like baseball players have done since the beggining of time, sadly, all at the same time, in the second half, again...this is a pattern now. They need to turn the page in Sept.,and get on a major roll or the changes will be on the roster in the offseason,no doubt.

TDog
08-27-2009, 09:57 AM
and that was with no wind!


Yes. So much for attributing his early-season success to the wind blowing in, at Fenway, which didn't make any sense to me anyway.

kitekrazy
08-27-2009, 10:53 AM
I do like that Asian dude the Bosox have for middle relief.

TDog
08-27-2009, 11:05 AM
the redsox won the game...why would they care who got the other teams rbi's. the poster was complaining about game the whitesox lost.

The White Sox easily could have won the game if anyone other than the weakest hitter in the lineup, who also happened to be hitting ninth, had driven in any runs -- if Rios, Pierzynski or Beckham had done anything. As it turned out, the only player that did damage against the Red Sox was Nix.

What the poster was complaining about is not unique to the White Sox. If you watched other teams, you would see it happen to other teams as much as it happened to the White Sox. If you were Oakland, you would complain that Castro had such a good night, and the only White Sox home run, in a one-run, extra-inning loss to the White Sox. It is amazing how many big hits against teams other than the White Sox that Adam Everett has had this year. Those isolated examples are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2009, 11:55 AM
Folks:

The only way Kenny Williams leaves as G.M. is if he requests it for health or personal reasons.

The only way he will be fired by JR is if he does something illegal to stain the organization. Period.

He and JR go back over 20 years. JR personally came to his house when the Sox were trying to sign him and told his parents that he'd always take care of him. Thinking he's going to be fired if the Sox have their second losing season in three years is preposterous.

Lip

Goodman6
08-27-2009, 12:17 PM
The White Sox easily could have won the game if anyone other than the weakest hitter in the lineup, who also happened to be hitting ninth, had driven in any runs -- if Rios, Pierzynski or Beckham had done anything. As it turned out, the only player that did damage against the Red Sox was Nix.

What the poster was complaining about is not unique to the White Sox. If you watched other teams, you would see it happen to other teams as much as it happened to the White Sox. If you were Oakland, you would complain that Castro had such a good night, and the only White Sox home run, in a one-run, extra-inning loss to the White Sox. It is amazing how many big hits against teams other than the White Sox that Adam Everett has had this year. Those isolated examples are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

TDog: You missed my point completely. I don't care what happens to other teams, I was making a point on how weaker hitters have hurt the Sox over the past series. Do you actually watch any Sox games, because your responses makes me wonder. In any case, here are some examples for you:

Valbuena - Cle - started series against the Sox hitting .231. Last series against Sox = 9AB, 4R, 4H, 1 2B, 1 3B, 1 RBI. Sox lose series 2 - 1.

Pie - Balt - started series aganst the Sox hitting .248. Last series against the Sox = 8AB, 2R, 4H, 1 HR, 2 RBI. His homer was the difference in a 1-run Sox loss. Sox lose series 2 - 1. Pie's homer clinches rubber game.

Gonzalez - Bost - started series against the Sox hitting .156 and .210 with a .258 OBP with Cincinnati before the BoSox got him. This series against the Sox so far: 9AB, 4R, 5H, 1 2B, 1 HR 1 RBI. Sox trailing in this series 3 - 0.

That is just a sample of what I posted. Yes, weak hitters do hurt other teams at times, but this is a White Sox board and I was only talking about the White Sox being hurt by some weak hitters recently.

Your point about Nix has no bearing on what I was trying to point out. But since you mentioned Nix, how many teams has Nix hurt this year and actually helped the Sox win a game? Why don't you look that up.

Goodman6
08-27-2009, 12:20 PM
the redsox won the game...why would they care who got the other teams rbi's. the poster was complaining about game the whitesox lost.

Thank you Ike from NJ for understanding my comments.

ike from nj
08-27-2009, 12:22 PM
TDog: You missed my point completely. I don't care what happens to other teams, I was making a point on how weaker hitters have hurt the Sox over the past series. Do you actually watch any Sox games, because your responses makes me wonder. In any case, here are some examples for you:

Valbuena - Cle - started series against the Sox hitting .231. Last series against Sox = 9AB, 4R, 4H, 1 2B, 1 3B, 1 RBI. Sox lose series 2 - 1.

Pie - Balt - started series aganst the Sox hitting .248. Last series against the Sox = 8AB, 2R, 4H, 1 HR, 2 RBI. His homer was the difference in a 1-run Sox loss. Sox lose series 2 - 1. Pie's homer clinches rubber game.

Gonzalez - Bost - started series against the Sox hitting .156 and .210 with a .258 OBP with Cincinnati before the BoSox got him. This series against the Sox so far: 9AB, 4R, 5H, 1 2B, 1 HR 1 RBI. Sox trailing in this series 3 - 0.

That is just a sample of what I posted. Yes, weak hitters do hurt other teams at times, but this is a White Sox board and I was only talking about the White Sox being hurt by some weak hitters recently.

Your point about Nix has no bearing on what I was trying to point out. But since you mentioned Nix, how many teams has Nix hurt this year and actually helped the Sox win a game? Why don't you look that up.
you are absolutely correct goodman6...similar to some of the pitchers that have handled the sox this year like guthrie at al.

fram40
08-27-2009, 12:28 PM
You mean the three they have in the last hundred years(ish)? I get your point, but Boston doesn't have anywhere near the championship pedigree that the Yanks and say, the Cards do. Unless you're listening to a Blow Sox fan's side of the story.

and the two they have this century are tainted by steroids

JB98
08-27-2009, 12:54 PM
Folks:

The only way Kenny Williams leaves as G.M. is if he requests it for health or personal reasons.

The only way he will be fired by JR is if he does something illegal to stain the organization. Period.

He and JR go back over 20 years. JR personally came to his house when the Sox were trying to sign him and told his parents that he'd always take care of him. Thinking he's going to be fired if the Sox have their second losing season in three years is preposterous.

Lip

I agree, Lip. Neither KW nor Ozzie are going anywhere. They always say, "You can't fire the players." Well, actually, yes, you can fire the players. The Sox organization has done that time and time again under KW. Look at the roster turnover we had during the offseason between 2004 and 2005.

Last offseason, they basically fired Swisher and Vazquez (and Logan). They didn't seem too concerned about how much value they got in return. They just wanted those guys gone.

Look at the roster turnover we've had since Opening Day. They finally fired MacDougal (thank God). If the Sox fail to make the playoffs, more changes will be made.

kitekrazy
08-27-2009, 01:05 PM
Folks:

The only way Kenny Williams leaves as G.M. is if he requests it for health or personal reasons.

The only way he will be fired by JR is if he does something illegal to stain the organization. Period.

He and JR go back over 20 years. JR personally came to his house when the Sox were trying to sign him and told his parents that he'd always take care of him. Thinking he's going to be fired if the Sox have their second losing season in three years is preposterous.

Lip

Why would anyone fire the best GM in town?

Goodman6
08-27-2009, 01:28 PM
I agree, Lip. Neither KW nor Ozzie are going anywhere. They always say, "You can't fire the players." Well, actually, yes, you can fire the players. The Sox organization has done that time and time again under KW. Look at the roster turnover we had during the offseason between 2004 and 2005.

Last offseason, they basically fired Swisher and Vazquez (and Logan). They didn't seem too concerned about how much value they got in return. They just wanted those guys gone.

Look at the roster turnover we've had since Opening Day. They finally fired MacDougal (thank God). If the Sox fail to make the playoffs, more changes will be made.

JB & Lip: I totally agree with both of you. Kenny and Ozzie are not going anywhere unless they decide to leave.

Actually, I thought Ozzie did the best job of managing the team last season when we won the AL Central with a very flawed team with holes due to injuries and some personality issues.

You are right JB, Kenny has no problem in firing the players. If the Sox don't win the division this year, you can bet that it will be a very exciting off-season. I have had the pleasure of meeting and talking with Kenny on a couple of occasions he certainly left me with the impression that he won't tolerate having a team that isn't good enough to win. The man is not afraid to pull the trigger on any deal that he feels will improve the team, regardless of what the fans think.

With Kenny in charge, I like our future. I hope he is with us for a very long time.

TDog
08-27-2009, 02:18 PM
TDog: You missed my point completely. I don't care what happens to other teams, I was making a point on how weaker hitters have hurt the Sox over the past series. Do you actually watch any Sox games, because your responses makes me wonder. In any case, here are some examples for you:

Valbuena - Cle - started series against the Sox hitting .231. Last series against Sox = 9AB, 4R, 4H, 1 2B, 1 3B, 1 RBI. Sox lose series 2 - 1.

Pie - Balt - started series aganst the Sox hitting .248. Last series against the Sox = 8AB, 2R, 4H, 1 HR, 2 RBI. His homer was the difference in a 1-run Sox loss. Sox lose series 2 - 1. Pie's homer clinches rubber game.

Gonzalez - Bost - started series against the Sox hitting .156 and .210 with a .258 OBP with Cincinnati before the BoSox got him. This series against the Sox so far: 9AB, 4R, 5H, 1 2B, 1 HR 1 RBI. Sox trailing in this series 3 - 0.

That is just a sample of what I posted. Yes, weak hitters do hurt other teams at times, but this is a White Sox board and I was only talking about the White Sox being hurt by some weak hitters recently.

Your point about Nix has no bearing on what I was trying to point out. But since you mentioned Nix, how many teams has Nix hurt this year and actually helped the Sox win a game? Why don't you look that up.

What you are trying to point out is not unique to the White Sox, though. Your point was pointless to begin with. If you watch other teams besides the White Sox, you'll see the same thing happening just as often. It happens more to Oakland because they lose more games. Ramon Castro was the difference in the Friday night for the Sox win in Oakland. The next day, Nix drove in the first two runs off Gio Gonzalez. On the subject of Pie hit for the cycle this year, and it wasn't against the White Sox. He did that in a win against the Angels before he homered against the White Sox. He also homered against the Twins last night.

The funny thing is, the weakest hitters in Oakland's lineup have done a lot of damage to other teams in spite of hitting .220. Their backup catcher was hitting around .200 with a batting average close to .500 with runners in scoring position before the A's came to Chicago.

You are lamenting that there the White Sox have a problem when just about every team just about every year faces the same problem. In 1972, Wilbur Wood drove in a run with a single in a 1-0 complete game win against the Angels, and there aren't many worse hitters in Sox history than Wilbur Wood.

Domeshot17
08-27-2009, 02:23 PM
Yah ignore my 3 am rant. Had just got out of the ER and was pumped full of pain killers while watching it on DVR. Needless to say it didnt go well.

I don't know how I feel about Kenny and Ozzie. My gut says Ozzie has lost some of his edge with some of the veterans, but can you blame him for JD collapsing or the BUllpen Kenny built.

In turn, Kenny has built a great core for NEXT YEAR, but his inability to address the team needs earlier in the year are going to cost us the playoffs. Pretty much every player we knew would fail has failed, and had we had a better and more aggressive offseason we would probably be winning the division, although maybe we don't land Peavy or Rios (who hasn't earned his keep yet).

Its just a tough spot. I think the truth is most of us know this was always a punted year, a .500 year, Kenny knew it, and he saw chances late in the year to build up for next season. This season may be excusable, but if we don't make the playoffs NEXT YEAR, I think a head needs to roll.

Goodman6
08-27-2009, 03:06 PM
What you are trying to point out is not unique to the White Sox, though. Your point was pointless to begin with. If you watch other teams besides the White Sox, you'll see the same thing happening just as often. It happens more to Oakland because they lose more games. Ramon Castro was the difference in the Friday night for the Sox win in Oakland. The next day, Nix drove in the first two runs off Gio Gonzalez. On the subject of Pie hit for the cycle this year, and it wasn't against the White Sox. He did that in a win against the Angels before he homered against the White Sox. He also homered against the Twins last night.

The funny thing is, the weakest hitters in Oakland's lineup have done a lot of damage to other teams in spite of hitting .220. Their backup catcher was hitting around .200 with a batting average close to .500 with runners in scoring position before the A's came to Chicago.

You are lamenting that there the White Sox have a problem when just about every team just about every year faces the same problem. In 1972, Wilbur Wood drove in a run with a single in a 1-0 complete game win against the Angels, and there aren't many worse hitters in Sox history than Wilbur Wood.

How many times do I have to tell you that I am not talking about other teams. I am talkng only about a RECENT trend in which weaker hitters have had success against the Sox. I don't give a rats ass what Wilbur Wood did in 1972. Why can't you understand a simple point I made with some background facts and stats supporting it?

Ike in NJ quickly understood what I was saying. My God, I can't believe you are challanging what I wrote and trying to tie in every team and going back to 1972. Final question and then I will drop this point forever. Forget about other teams and 1972 --- Do you think the Sox have been hurt by some weaker hitter in some of the recent series'? If not, then we will agree to disagree on that subject.

P.S. I am surprised you haven't brought up Tito Landrum, which again would have no bearing on the comment I originally made just like your Nix and Wilbur Wood references.

TDog
08-27-2009, 03:45 PM
How many times do I have to tell you that I am not talking about other teams. I am talkng only about a RECENT trend in which weaker hitters have had success against the Sox. I don't give a rats ass what Wilbur Wood did in 1972. Why can't you understand a simple point I made with some background facts and stats supporting it?

Ike in NJ quickly understood what I was saying. My God, I can't believe you are challanging what I wrote and trying to tie in every team and going back to 1972. Final question and then I will drop this point forever. Forget about other teams and 1972 --- Do you think the Sox have been hurt by some weaker hitter in some of the recent series'? If not, then we will agree to disagree on that subject.

P.S. I am surprised you haven't brought up Tito Landrum, which again would have no bearing on the comment I originally made just like your Nix and Wilbur Wood references.

The Sox haven't been hurt by weaker hitters any more than any other team has been hurt by weaker hitters. If this were a computer game, you might have a complaint, but in live baseball it happens all the time to everyone.

It isn't recent and it isn't a trend unique to the White Sox. That is why baseball history is full of Landrums and Blums. There are even some fans who fixate on Felix Pie hitting a big home run against the Whtie Sox after he hit for the cycle in a win against the Angels and before he hit an important home run to help beat the Twins.

SI1020
08-27-2009, 04:24 PM
Is 3+ years of baseball enough of a trend? Since 7-7-06 the White Sox are 258-271. Yes, that includes a division title, albeit in a weak division. I hope the moves that KW made this year and ones he'll have to make in the offseason will help reverse what I see as a definite trend.

Boondock Saint
08-27-2009, 04:45 PM
Is 3+ years of baseball enough of a trend? Since 7-7-06 the White Sox are 258-271. Yes, that includes a division title, albeit in a weak division. I hope the moves that KW made this year and ones he'll have to make in the offseason will help reverse what I see as a definite trend.

Cherry picking at its finest.

Rohan
08-27-2009, 04:52 PM
Cherry picking at its finest.

No kidding... Why didn't you throw in 2005 and 2004?

SI1020
08-27-2009, 07:15 PM
That's not a cherry, I think it's 529 of them. Certainly not too small of a sample. If someone asks me to do a trend analysis I'll certainly refer them to the less than stellar reviews here.

Goodman6
08-27-2009, 07:24 PM
The Sox haven't been hurt by weaker hitters any more than any other team has been hurt by weaker hitters. If this were a computer game, you might have a complaint, but in live baseball it happens all the time to everyone.

It isn't recent and it isn't a trend unique to the White Sox. That is why baseball history is full of Landrums and Blums. There are even some fans who fixate on Felix Pie hitting a big home run against the Whtie Sox after he hit for the cycle in a win against the Angels and before he hit an important home run to help beat the Twins.

TDog: I won't disagree with what you are saying. I think you make some good points but I still don't think you totally understand what I was saying.

In any case, on a funnier matter ----- I was in the car listening to the Sox game on XM Radio just a few minutes ago. When Nix came up with 2 men on base, I told my wife that Nix will probably deliver a big hit right now because I didn't make a very kind remark about Nix in an email to fellow Sox fan TDog. Sure enough, Nix doubled in two runs. Hey, I rather be wrong and have Nix have a good game leading to a Sox win than be right with a Sox loss.

Again, I do understand your point but I think are differences are apples to oranges.

Let's just hope our Sox hold on and win this one today. I don't even care if Alex Gonzalez has another 3-hit game as long as we win.

Best Regards, my friend.

TDog
08-27-2009, 10:49 PM
... I was in the car listening to the Sox game on XM Radio just a few minutes ago. When Nix came up with 2 men on base, I told my wife that Nix will probably deliver a big hit right now because I didn't make a very kind remark about Nix in an email to fellow Sox fan TDog. Sure enough, Nix doubled in two runs. Hey, I rather be wrong and have Nix have a good game leading to a Sox win than be right with a Sox loss. ...

I totally missed the game because I had things to do tonight. After I saw the White Sox won and I reconstructed the game on Gameday, I smiled inwardly to myself when I saw that Nix again hurt the Red Sox, but his average is still under .230.

Somewhere there are Red Sox fans complaining loudly, probably questioning whether their team has any killer instinct while they're at it.

By the way, one of the reasons I don't believe in intentional walks, except in end-of-the-game situations, is that I have seen too many weak hitters end up getting the big hits after such moves, and the extra baserunner only amplifies those hits.

Nellie_Fox
08-27-2009, 10:53 PM
Is 3+ years of baseball enough of a trend? Since 7-7-06 the White Sox are 258-271. Yes, that includes a division title, albeit in a weak division. I hope the moves that KW made this year and ones he'll have to make in the offseason will help reverse what I see as a definite trend.

Cherry picking at its finest.

That's not a cherry, I think it's 529 of them. Certainly not too small of a sample. If someone asks me to do a trend analysis I'll certainly refer them to the less than stellar reviews here.
But why did you start your time period from July 7th? Because that best supports your position?

SI1020
08-28-2009, 09:03 AM
But why did you start your time period from July 7th? Because that best supports your position? Is that like asking when did you stop beating your wife? Sounds like a lose lose propostion. I had prepared a detailed defense of my position, but the internet just swallowed it up. Suffice to say that I think that in the Boston series at home just before the All Star break in 06 the Sox started playing lousy baseball. Of course if you want to use the term in the strictest sense I did "cherry pick". If I want to say the Sox have struggled for over three baseball years I need some data to back it up don't I? Don't you expect your students to use the best evidence available to them in making their arguments in term papers and oral recitations? That's all I did and I didn't realize to some it would be such an outlandish position. Now the Sox are 259-271 since 7-7-06. That's a pretty long period of not so good baseball. Maybe next year when Kenny's moves have time to kick in I'll see a new trend line.

Nellie_Fox
08-28-2009, 10:14 AM
It's just an odd date to start your "trend line" from.