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View Full Version : Mets announcers summarize MLB umps


illinifan1368
08-23-2009, 06:17 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6258197

Something needs to be done, umps are literally killing the game. I'm glad to see they are being called out around the league. It's a joke.

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2009, 06:21 PM
Umpiring has gone into the ****ter at an increasing rate lately. I think when they get fined or suspended, it should be made public like the players and coaching staffs so that we know they are being dealt with properly. Umpires shouldn't be protected from public knowledge of the consequences they face.

WhiteSox5187
08-23-2009, 06:27 PM
Well, bad calls are part of the game. Bad calls don't bother me but what does bother me is when you see umps taking charge of the game with rabbit ears (when they start pointing into a dugout or tossing someone out from the dugout). For me the most egregious example of this is with I think it was Angel Guzman who tossed Shane Victorino out from center field.

Brian26
08-23-2009, 06:31 PM
Glad they changed the call and got it correct, but what's disturbing is that the 2nd base ump had the best view of that play right in front of him and blew it.

illinifan1368
08-23-2009, 06:37 PM
Another one in the Cubs/Dodgers game right now.

WhiteSox5187
08-23-2009, 06:40 PM
Another one in the Cubs/Dodgers game right now.

Two in a row. The umps are costing the Dodgers this game.

illinifan1368
08-23-2009, 06:41 PM
Two in a row. The umps are costing the Dodgers this game.
But its part of the game right? :rolleyes:

WhiteSox5187
08-23-2009, 08:05 PM
But its part of the game right? :rolleyes:

It is.

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2009, 08:10 PM
It is.
And it's bull**** that so many people are willing to be ok with the "human" aspect of the game. What ever happened to getting the call right?!?!

illinifan1368
08-23-2009, 08:25 PM
And it's bull**** that so many people are willing to be ok with the "human" aspect of the game. What ever happened to getting the call right?!?!
This. Thank you. All in favor of a challenge per game for each manager raise their hand. It would take less time to watch the video and get it right than it already takes for the managers to argue the call.

Marqhead
08-23-2009, 08:27 PM
And it's bull**** that so many people are willing to be ok with the "human" aspect of the game. What ever happened to getting the call right?!?!

Believe it or not, having to make split second calls with 100% accuracy in a game with so many intangibles is not as easy as it sounds.

Human error is part of the game, would I like umps to be right 100% of the time? Yes, but for the most part the umps do a fantastic job.

I wont debate there has been an inordinate amount of crummy calls lately, but umps are under a lot of pressure and they do a pretty damn good job.

WhiteSox5187
08-23-2009, 09:22 PM
And it's bull**** that so many people are willing to be ok with the "human" aspect of the game. What ever happened to getting the call right?!?!

You want to make the game slower so the umps can get 100% of the calls 100% correct? Baseball, like all institutions, is a human institutions and since humans are inherently flawed so is baseball and so the are the umpires of baseball. There will ALWAYS be blown calls and sometimes they will effect the out come of the game. That's the nature of the game.

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2009, 09:30 PM
You want to make the game slower so the umps can get 100% of the calls 100% correct? Baseball, like all institutions, is a human institutions and since humans are inherently flawed so is baseball and so the are the umpires of baseball. There will ALWAYS be blown calls and sometimes they will effect the out come of the game. That's the nature of the game.
Getting the call right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adding a few extra minutes to the total time it takes to play a game in my book!!!

kaufsox
08-23-2009, 09:53 PM
Just read a great book about umpires, "As They See 'Em." Does a great job discussing the culture of umpires and what they go through each game, the thought process, the mechanics, positioning etc. It's a great read. FWIW, even with replay in the NFL they still make mistakes, as a matter of fact, they can even screw up a coin toss...

illinifan1368
08-23-2009, 09:56 PM
Getting the call right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adding a few extra minutes to the total time it takes to play a game in my book!!!
Exactly.

And what's the deal with the way umpires are acting likely? Do they think people are coming to the park to see them and not the players?

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6116597

soltrain21
08-23-2009, 10:18 PM
Getting the call right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adding a few extra minutes to the total time it takes to play a game in my book!!!

How do you expect instant replay to work in baseball? Okay, so they review a play at first and it turns out he was out instead of safe. What are you doing with runners? How is that going to work?

There are too many things happening in baseball to just say, "Okay, so here is what really happened - therefore this is what happens with the rest of the play."

Calls always get blown. It's the nature of the game. It's the nature of sports.

WhiteSox5187
08-23-2009, 10:29 PM
Getting the call right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adding a few extra minutes to the total time it takes to play a game in my book!!!

Baseball needs to find ways to make the game faster, not slow it down.

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2009, 10:38 PM
Baseball needs to find ways to make the game faster, not slow it down.
Baseball needs to find ways to make the game FAIRER, not impacted by errors that should be corrected. What is a few extra minutes? It really makes little difference in time.

doublem23
08-23-2009, 10:41 PM
Didn't they prove that umps get over 95% of the ball and strike calls right when they had QuesTec auditing them?

If everyone in America was 95% proficient at their jobs, this country would be humming right alone.

soltrain21
08-23-2009, 10:41 PM
Baseball needs to find ways to make the game FAIRER, not impacted by errors that should be corrected. What is a few extra minutes? It really makes little difference in time.

How is the game not fair? Are teams allowed more players on the field than the other?

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2009, 10:43 PM
How is the game not fair? Are teams allowed more players on the field than the other?
What does that have to do with umpires making calls on the field that wrongfully impact a game?

Marqhead
08-23-2009, 10:43 PM
How do you expect instant replay to work in baseball? Okay, so they review a play at first and it turns out he was out instead of safe. What are you doing with runners? How is that going to work?

There are too many things happening in baseball to just say, "Okay, so here is what really happened - therefore this is what happens with the rest of the play."

Calls always get blown. It's the nature of the game. It's the nature of sports.

Exactly. This isn't football, not everything is cut and dry. Do the runners advance? How far? Who would have scored? Baseball can use replay in limited circumstances, right now that would be HRs fair or foul. You can't really expand to far from this or you start getting into the situations described above, and if you start debating balls and strikes you get into a whole other area of conflict.

Marqhead
08-23-2009, 10:44 PM
What does that have to do with umpires making calls on the field that wrongfully impact a game?

Because every team is subject to the same group of officials. It's as fair as it can be for everyone.

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2009, 10:59 PM
Because every team is subject to the same group of officials. It's as fair as it can be for everyone.
But that same group of officials could be "sleeping" more for one team than another.

soltrain21
08-23-2009, 11:03 PM
But that same group of officials could be "sleeping" more for one team than another.

Baseball has FAR less of a problem of teams being favored than any other sport. Guaranteed.

LoveYourSuit
08-23-2009, 11:04 PM
Baseball needs to find ways to make the game faster, not slow it down.


There is so much other bull **** that goes on at games which can help cut time down. Cut that **** off and put more time into getting calls right (stuff that actually matters).


Technology is so great these days it's about time the human judgment call shold be left out from deciding a close ball game. There is just so much money at stake these days where you just can't continue to look the other way. The gambling aspect of the NFL is the reason why instant replay was brought in. I don't see anyone complaining about how long NFL games are.

Just get the call right.

Marqhead
08-23-2009, 11:05 PM
But that same group of officials could be "sleeping" more for one team than another.

Are you talking about umpires naturally having "off" games or implying that umps are favoring certain teams and players over others?

soltrain21
08-23-2009, 11:07 PM
There is so much other bull **** that goes on at games which can help cut time down. Cut that **** off and put more time into getting calls right (stuff that actually matters).


Technology is so great these days it's about time the human judgment call shold be left out from deciding a close ball game. There is just so much money at stake these days where you just can't continue to look the other way. The gambling aspect of the NFL is the reason why instant replay was brought in. I don't see anyone complaining about how long NFL games are.

Just get the call right.

To what extent? Do you want every single play reviewable? It just doesn't work. You seem like a baseball purist, Suit. How could you want review in such a grand scale?

Marqhead
08-23-2009, 11:07 PM
Technology is so great these days it's about time the human judgment call shold be left out from deciding a close ball game. There is just so much money at stake these days where you just can't continue to look the other way. The gambling aspect of the NFL is the reason why instant replay was brought in. I don't see anyone complaining about how long NFL games are.


No one complains about how long NFL games are because there are 16 per team per season.

I think eventually that strikes and balls will be called by a computer, and I have no problem with that, but for reasons stated above you can't (at this point at least) completely remove the human aspect of umpiring a baseball game.

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2009, 11:08 PM
Are you talking about umpires naturally having "off" games or implying that umps are favoring certain teams and players over others?
Both. I hope that we won't even be needing umpires in the future, that computerized devices were created to handle all aspects of it. That would be so cool!

soltrain21
08-23-2009, 11:09 PM
Both. I hope that we won't even be needing umpires in the future, that computerized devices were created to handle all aspects of it. That would be so cool!

I'd never watch baseball again.

GoGoCrede
08-23-2009, 11:10 PM
Both. I hope that we won't even be needing umpires in the future, that computerized devices were created to handle all aspects of it. That would be so cool!

Yeah, but then Hawk would have to resort to blaming players instead of umps and we can't have that! :redneck

Marqhead
08-23-2009, 11:16 PM
I'd never watch baseball again.

I don't have too many qualms with the way umpiring is handled in the game currently, but I think in the future if there is a way to ensure the correct call is made each time it should be used. At this point in time, I don't think there's a way to do that.

hi im skot
08-23-2009, 11:17 PM
Both. I hope that we won't even be needing umpires in the future, that computerized devices were created to handle all aspects of it. That would be so cool!

OOOH! LIKE THE GLOW PUCK!!!!!!

Pass.

Marqhead
08-23-2009, 11:19 PM
OOOH! LIKE THE GLOW PUCK!!!!!!

Pass.

We're not talking about some TV broadcasting gimmick, we're talking about making sure the correct call is made each and every time. There's a huge difference.

LoveYourSuit
08-23-2009, 11:20 PM
To what extent? Do you want every single play reviewable? It just doesn't work. You seem like a baseball purist, Suit. How could you want review in such a grand scale?


I think you can have a controlled situation where each manager is given "review flags/chances " 1-2 times per game which include HR reviews.

The have gone to take care of the HR calls when in fact each game has 1 or 2 very questionable in game calls within the lines/bases which do not involve a HR but are as important to the outcome of the game.

Balls and strikes, definately a no no for arguement.

I realize that plays have the "continuation" apsect to deal with, that's something they would have to come up with rules and scenarios for.

soltrain21
08-23-2009, 11:20 PM
I don't have too many qualms with the way umpiring is handled in the game currently, but I think in the future if there is a way to ensure the correct call is made each time it should be used. At this point in time, I don't think there's a way to do that.

I don't even have a robot butler yet. I'll be dead by the time Robo-Pujols is hitting 900 foot home runs.

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2009, 11:21 PM
OOOH! LIKE THE GLOW PUCK!!!!!!

Pass.
Now the glow puck was dumb and not needed. Following a hockey puck is extremely easy...just watch the body language of the players, and you'll know who has the puck on their stick or where on the ice it is. The same applies to baseball. I don't understand why so many fans get up like a fly ball is a home run when it's not. If they just would watch the body language of the outfielders, then they wouldn't have to be disappointed when the outfielder catches it.

Marqhead
08-23-2009, 11:22 PM
I don't even have a robot butler yet. I'll be dead by the time Robo-Pujols is hitting 900 foot home runs.

I've told my friends that in the future we wont even be watching humans playing the game. It'll be like video games because they will be able to perform feats that humans cannot. They all think I'm crazy.

Wont happen in my lifetime, and I'm glad.

hi im skot
08-23-2009, 11:22 PM
We're missing an important question: when the robots take over MLB, will the DH still exist?

hi im skot
08-23-2009, 11:24 PM
Now the glow puck was dumb and not needed. Following a hockey puck is extremely easy...just watch the body language of the players, and you'll know who has the puck on their stick or where on the ice it is. The same applies to baseball. I don't understand why so many fans get up like a fly ball is a home run when it's not. If they just would watch the body language of the outfielders, then they wouldn't have to be disappointed when the outfielder catches it.

Thanks for the tip. Question, though: what if the entire outfield is made up of Scott Podsednik clones?

soltrain21
08-23-2009, 11:26 PM
I've told my friends that in the future we wont even be watching humans playing the game. It'll be like video games because they will be able to perform feats that humans cannot. They all think I'm crazy.

Wont happen in my lifetime, and I'm glad.

Super Baseball 2120 or whatever it was called. You want to steal 2nd base? Beat up that ****ing robot in front of you.

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2009, 11:26 PM
Thanks for the tip. Question, though: what if the entire outfield is made up of Scott Podsednik clones?
I think we'd have to exchange them for mini Ditkas. :tongue:

GoGoCrede
08-23-2009, 11:26 PM
We're missing an important question: when the robots take over MLB, will the DH still exist?

Jim: Hey, Dwight. As Sempai, do you think there is ever going to be a day where humans and robots can peacefully co-exist?

Dwight: Impossible. The way they're programmed... You're mocking me.

:tongue:

soltrain21
08-23-2009, 11:27 PM
We're missing an important question: when the robots take over MLB, will the DH still exist?

Yes. Robot pitchers can not focus on robot hitting in robot spring training.

hi im skot
08-23-2009, 11:28 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/Base_Wars_cover.jpg

Marqhead
08-23-2009, 11:29 PM
Computers have already ruined chess, we can't let them have baseball!!!

illinifan1368
08-23-2009, 11:46 PM
:hijacked:

doublem23
08-23-2009, 11:57 PM
We're missing an important question: when the robots take over MLB, will the DH still exist?

Only in the Android League, the stiffs in the Cyborg League are still stuck in 22nd century.

hi im skot
08-24-2009, 12:01 AM
Only in the Android League, the stiffs in the Cyborg League are still stuck in 22nd century.

Damn "purists"...

soxfanreggie
08-24-2009, 01:36 PM
I'd never watch baseball again.

Are you saying you go to watch the umpires or that they're part of the ambiance of the game?

downstairs
08-24-2009, 03:09 PM
This. Thank you. All in favor of a challenge per game for each manager raise their hand. It would take less time to watch the video and get it right than it already takes for the managers to argue the call.

Absolutely. A challenge system WILL NOT add minutes to the game. How long to arguments take?

A challenge system solves everything.

jabrch
08-24-2009, 03:27 PM
We're missing an important question: when the robots take over MLB, will the DH still exist?

Equally important, will they have a robotic Churro vendor?

gobears1987
08-24-2009, 03:38 PM
I love how the challenge has worked in football. Why not have it in baseball?

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2009, 04:19 PM
I love how the challenge has worked in football. Why not have it in baseball?

This has been touched on better than I have, but if you overturn a call in baseball, say a trapped ball for the first out with runners on first and third, what do you do with the runners? Do you just assume they tag? What if it's a shallow flyball to right and Konerko is on third? Do you assume he would have tagged or would he have held up? You can't just "re-do" plays in baseball the way you do in football.

InKennyWeTrust
08-24-2009, 04:23 PM
This has been touched on better than I have, but if you overturn a call in baseball, say a trapped ball for the first out with runners on first and third, what do you do with the runners? Do you just assume they tag? What if it's a shallow flyball to right and Konerko is on third? Do you assume he would have tagged or would he have held up? You can't just "re-do" plays in baseball the way you do in football.
It'll be like Fan Interference. You look at what the players were doing at the time, and award accordingly as best to the ability.

InKennyWeTrust
08-24-2009, 04:26 PM
Here's my thought... they've got the line replay system in tennis. That seems to be doing allright. When are we going to see something like that for fair and four down the lines?

Irishsoxfan
08-24-2009, 04:35 PM
It'll be like Fan Interference. You look at what the players were doing at the time, and award accordingly as best to the ability.
So I guess we would replace one aspect of human umpiring and replace it with another! As someone alluded to earlier, who is going to decide if a "Konerko" tagged, would he have made it home? Umpires are a part of baseball that make it interesting. We are still talking about the dropped third strike AJ reached first on in the 2005 WS and no matter how many times the replay is shown, someone somewhere still insists it was caught.

gobears1987
08-24-2009, 04:41 PM
This has been touched on better than I have, but if you overturn a call in baseball, say a trapped ball for the first out with runners on first and third, what do you do with the runners? Do you just assume they tag? What if it's a shallow flyball to right and Konerko is on third? Do you assume he would have tagged or would he have held up? You can't just "re-do" plays in baseball the way you do in football.It is in those cases where judgement comes into play. An example would be when the umps decided to give Ichiro 3rd on fan interferencece in 2005 during Mark's 1:39 gem.

doublem23
08-24-2009, 05:44 PM
It'll be like Fan Interference. You look at what the players were doing at the time, and award accordingly as best to the ability.

You're definitely taking the "human element" out of the game. :rolleyes:

I'd be all for having IR and computers evaluating umpires and holding them more accountable for their on-field performance, but instant replay absolutely doesn't work in baseball. Call me when you've patented the first cyborg umpire.

InKennyWeTrust
08-24-2009, 06:09 PM
So I guess we would replace one aspect of human umpiring and replace it with another! As someone alluded to earlier, who is going to decide if a "Konerko" tagged, would he have made it home? Umpires are a part of baseball that make it interesting. We are still talking about the dropped third strike AJ reached first on in the 2005 WS and no matter how many times the replay is shown, someone somewhere still insists it was caught.
It doesn't really matter with Konerko. He's going to tag and run or stay depending on how the outfielder physically handles the ball. If we're wondering if the ball is trapped or caught, then the outfielder probably had some difficulity with his positioning, so Konerko is going to be able to score easily regardless of the call.

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2009, 06:33 PM
Here's my thought... they've got the line replay system in tennis. That seems to be doing allright. When are we going to see something like that for fair and four down the lines?

First off I think that would slow down the game even more, secondly if you rule a foul ball fair, how do you know how to reward the runner what base? For example a line drive down the line might be a double for Konerko but it could be a triple or even more for Pods.

It's Dankerific
08-24-2009, 06:38 PM
First off I think that would slow down the game even more, secondly if you rule a foul ball fair, how do you know how to reward the runner what base? For example a line drive down the line might be a double for Konerko but it could be a triple or even more for Pods.

Have close plays play out. Then, decide if its fair or foul. its not like its going to include a huge amount of plays.

soltrain21
08-24-2009, 07:38 PM
Are you saying you go to watch the umpires or that they're part of the ambiance of the game?

I'm saying that having HAL as an umpire would be ****ing stupid.

fox23
08-24-2009, 09:31 PM
It doesn't really matter with Konerko. He's going to tag and run or stay depending on how the outfielder physically handles the ball. If we're wondering if the ball is trapped or caught, then the outfielder probably had some difficulity with his positioning, so Konerko is going to be able to score easily regardless of the call.

Are you sure about that? Have you ever watched Paul Konerko try to run? :tongue:

I like having the umpires. When your team loses a close one, you can always go back and blame it on the umps to feel a little better. To me, an umpire missing a call for or against you is about the same as a ball hitting a tiny pebble or an odd cut of grass and veering off just enough to trick a fielder. It happens, that's life.

doublem23
08-24-2009, 11:05 PM
I'm saying that having HAL as an umpire would be ****ing stupid.

No, HAL umpires would be great, if you could develop technology that could, on the spot, make every call correct 100% of the time, that's the ultimate.

What's stupid is opening every play up to instant replay and then trying to figure out how to correct a wrong call by subjectively placing baserunners all over the field.

PennStater98r
08-25-2009, 10:31 AM
And it's bull**** that so many people are willing to be ok with the "human" aspect of the game. What ever happened to getting the call right?!?!

I just don't agree with this. I WANT some calls to be bad. Want to know why? Because sometimes those calls go our way. Think Dye HBP in the '05 WS. I'll take it. Think of A.J.'s dropped third strike call. There are some players that use the human factor to their advantage, and I am okay with it.

This is a pastoral game that is supposed to represent a time when things were much more easy going. The only problems that I have with umpires are those that try to make the game about them instead of the two teams playing. When umpires start throwing people out or refuse to review a play with their peers - that rubs me the wrong way - and they should be fined and suspended. However, missing a strike, a tag, a fair/foul ball, etc - does not bother me. Simply talk about it with the other umpires if there's reasonable doubt.

PennStater98r
08-25-2009, 10:33 AM
I'm saying that having HAL as an umpire would be ****ing stupid.

:clap: