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View Full Version : Ozzie On Ramirez / Cox


Lip Man 1
08-19-2009, 04:20 PM
Apparently he disciplined Ramirez a few weeks ago for "not hustling"

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/08/ozzie-guillen-defends-alexei-ramirez-and-jeff-cox-in-wake-of-tuesdays-loss.html

Lip

hawkjt
08-19-2009, 04:30 PM
Some folks have said that if Alexei was truly hustling he could have made it to second base on that pop-up....was it really that high?
I think Alexei ran only moderately hard til he was close to first then turned it on,right before it was dropped.
It cost us. Best case he runs hard out of the box and makes it to second, or loafs and stays at first...he seemed in between.

Cox had a borderline call..Farmer today said with no outs, it was questionable. Still, we have seen a lot of guys not score from third with one out also...Coxy had a tough call, but I say when he sees Bloomquist set to get that running start...stop him.

fram40
08-19-2009, 04:38 PM
Cox had a borderline call..Farmer today said with no outs, it was questionable. Still, we have seen a lot of guys not score from third with one out also...Coxy had a tough call, but I say when he sees Bloomquist set to get that running start...stop him.


I thought it was a horrible chance taken by Cox and TCQ - he was out by ten feet, at least. But it is amazing how few throws are on line these days. esp. by a guy who is usually an infielder.

Look at the winning run on Monday night - Rios was going all the way and the CF bobbled it and there was no chance. Put a little pressure on and players don't make the play more often than they do. So maybe it was a better than 50/50 chance

seventyseven
08-19-2009, 04:40 PM
Why is Cox "ultra-sensitive"?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-19-2009, 04:48 PM
I thought it was a horrible chance taken by Cox and TCQ - he was out by ten feet, at least. But it is amazing how few throws are on line these days. esp. by a guy who is usually an infielder.

Look at the winning run on Monday night - Rios was going all the way and the CF bobbled it and there was no chance. Put a little pressure on and players don't make the play more often than they do. So maybe it was a better than 50/50 chance

I didn't see the play, so I don't know how deep Bloomquist was, but maybe if it was Rios/TCM/Pods on third instead of a bum-footed Quentin, maybe the wheels turn in Bloomquist's head a little differently, he rushes the throw a bit, and if he still makes the throw, at least it's a little closer of a play.

cws05champ
08-19-2009, 04:56 PM
Some folks have said that if Alexei was truly hustling he could have made it to second base on that pop-up....was it really that high?
I think Alexei ran only moderately hard til he was close to first then turned it on,right before it was dropped.
It cost us. Best case he runs hard out of the box and makes it to second, or loafs and stays at first...he seemed in between.

Cox had a borderline call..Farmer today said with no outs, it was questionable. Still, we have seen a lot of guys not score from third with one out also...Coxy had a tough call, but I say when he sees Bloomquist set to get that running start...stop him.
Ozzie said it was a "good Mistake"? What? Beer league softball players know that when the pop up is coming down you better be close to a base, whether it is first or 2nd. To be caught in between is just plain stupid.

I still think Cox's send of TCQ is OK....you have to be aggressive and make them throw you out. If he scores it's a brilliant and gutsy call.

CLR01
08-19-2009, 04:59 PM
Some folks have said that if Alexei was truly hustling he could have made it to second base on that pop-up....was it really that high?
I think Alexei ran only moderately hard til he was close to first then turned it on,right before it was dropped.
It cost us. Best case he runs hard out of the box and makes it to second, or loafs and stays at first...he seemed in between.

I didn't think he had a shot in hell at second base. Perhaps if the ball would have rolled behind Callaspo so he would have had to turn to retrive and then turn again to throw.

Have Thome, Konerko, and Dye been equally disaplined for lack of hustle? Those guys are always dogging it on popouts/flyballs.

goon
08-19-2009, 06:41 PM
Why is Cox "ultra-sensitive"?

No idea, but our baserunning is pretty good. I think he does a great job.

slavko
08-19-2009, 07:01 PM
Cox hasn't been criticized here since Pods got picked off right in front of his eyes with Thome at the plate. Don't tell me that was a good play by either one of them.

Brian26
08-19-2009, 07:02 PM
The play had nothing to do with lack of hustle and everything to do with a completely stupid move that I've been seeing since I first started watching baseball when I was five years old. Alexei should have jogged down to first and stopped there.

It's the same play as having the runners off with the pitch on a 3-2 count with two outs. You see it all the time where runners keep going past the base instead of stopping at the nearest base in case the ball actually drops in. 99 out of 100 times, if a ball drops when runners are off with the pitch, someone's going to get tagged out in no-man's land.

goon
08-19-2009, 08:29 PM
Cox hasn't been criticized here since Pods got picked off right in front of his eyes with Thome at the plate. Don't tell me that was a good play by either one of them.

Please, teach us how to be perfect. The guy is a good third base coach and the White Sox have been great on the basepaths this season. A few mistakes here and there is completely acceptable.

34 Inch Stick
08-19-2009, 09:01 PM
Why is Cox "ultra-sensitive"?

Maybe it's being rubbed the wrong way.

fram40
08-19-2009, 09:19 PM
The play had nothing to do with lack of hustle and everything to do with a completely stupid move that I've been seeing since I first started watching baseball when I was five years old. Alexei should have jogged down to first and stopped there.

It's the same play as having the runners off with the pitch on a 3-2 count with two outs. You see it all the time where runners keep going past the base instead of stopping at the nearest base in case the ball actually drops in. 99 out of 100 times, if a ball drops when runners are off with the pitch, someone's going to get tagged out in no-man's land.

So is Alexei at fault for doing what practically every professional ballplayer would do? It is unfortunate that it happened - bad luck, really - but I think it would have happened to almost every single ML Player.

Waysouthsider
08-19-2009, 11:57 PM
It just seems to me that the kid isn't very focused....kind of like he has ADHD.....as far as the running goes, its kind of nice to some aggressive behavior on the basepaths...I get pretty frustrated with the station to station stuff that has been going on the last couple of years...

dickallen15
08-20-2009, 07:24 AM
The play had nothing to do with lack of hustle and everything to do with a completely stupid move that I've been seeing since I first started watching baseball when I was five years old. Alexei should have jogged down to first and stopped there.

It's the same play as having the runners off with the pitch on a 3-2 count with two outs. You see it all the time where runners keep going past the base instead of stopping at the nearest base in case the ball actually drops in. 99 out of 100 times, if a ball drops when runners are off with the pitch, someone's going to get tagged out in no-man's land.


This is true. Back when they had emails to the booth, I sent the email at least 10 times asking why the guys on pop ups continued to jog around when if the ball was dropped they would be an easy out. If Alexei had a realistic chance at second, it certainly was a lack of hustle, but more realistically it just was stupid baseball as he really should have stopped at first. He's not the only White Sox who has done this. Almost all have been doing it for years. Alexei was just the one who looked like a fool because the ball was dropped.

Eddo144
08-20-2009, 10:05 AM
This is true. Back when they had emails to the booth, I sent the email at least 10 times asking why the guys on pop ups continued to jog around when if the ball was dropped they would be an easy out. If Alexei had a realistic chance at second, it certainly was a lack of hustle, but more realistically it just was stupid baseball as he really should have stopped at first. He's not the only White Sox who has done this. Almost all have been doing it for years. Alexei was just the one who looked like a fool because the ball was dropped.
You know, when I was watching Monday night's game, I noticed that on Beckham's popup to first base, he very nearly stopped on top of first base, and thought to myself, "Well, that's smart, if that ball had been dropped he couldn't get caught between bases."

Then, at the game the next night, Ramirez does the exact opposite.