PDA

View Full Version : Should Dan Hudson make a start this year?


mzh
08-18-2009, 03:21 PM
Should Daniel Hudson be brought up to the club to fill in for the 5th spot until Peavy arrives, or take Contreras spot because he simply doesn't have it anymore, or should we not rush him to the big club and just wait 'till next year to see what he's got? Discuss.

popilius
08-18-2009, 03:25 PM
Should Daniel Hudson be brought up to the club to fill in for the 5th spot until Peavy arrives, or take Contreras spot because he simply doesn't have it anymore, or should we not rush him to the big club and just wait 'till next year to see what he's got? Discuss.

I hoping Freddy Garcia does well and takes Contreras' spot. That way, we'll have veteran pitcher who's been in a division race before. So far, not having Clayton Richard hasn't hurt us too bad, since I believe we've won the games he would have started.

:gulp:

DumpJerry
08-18-2009, 03:31 PM
How would we know? Do we have the inside scouting reports on him? I prefer to hold off as long as possible to let him grow into the starter role.

khan
08-18-2009, 03:44 PM
Unless Dan Hudson can catch easy pop flies, easy grounders, turn the routine double play, make the right throws, throw it to Paulie accurately after fielding a grounder, and keep outfielders from running into each other like a bunch of drunks, ALL while throwing no-hitters, I'd guess that Dan Hudson wouldn't help too much in the SOX's pursuit of Detroit.

Unless Dan Hudson can help the team hit pitchers that they've never seen before, I'm guessing he won't help. Unless he can show Dwayne Wise how to lay down a bunt, show Brent Lillibridge how to shorten his swing, show Josh Fields how to hit a routine fastball, show Jayson Nix how to go to the right side, and show Beckham how to hit the slider, I'm guessing he should stay in Charlotte.

Other than that, I guess bringing up Hudson can't hurt, so why not? Let's start his arbitration clock as early as possible. Let's make sure to have as many potential arbitration candidates [Along with Beckham and the other rookies] in the same season. Let's have him start @ Boston, or the yankees, or Minnesota, in the middle of a pennant race. Let's get him up as early as possible, I say.

JohnTucker0814
08-18-2009, 03:48 PM
Unless Dan Hudson can catch easy pop flies, easy grounders, turn the routine double play, make the right throws, throw it to Paulie accurately after fielding a grounder, and keep outfielders from running into each other like a bunch of drunks, ALL while throwing no-hitters, I'd guess that Dan Hudson wouldn't help too much in the SOX's pursuit of Detroit.

Unless Dan Hudson can help the team hit pitchers that they've never seen before, I'm guessing he won't help. Unless he can show Dwayne Wise how to lay down a bunt, show Brent Lillibridge how to shorten his swing, show Josh Fields how to hit a routine fastball, show Jayson Nix how to go to the right side, and show Beckham how to hit the slider, I'm guessing he should stay in Charlotte.

Other than that, I guess bringing up Hudson can't hurt, so why not? Let's start his arbitration clock as early as possible. Let's make sure to have as many potential arbitration candidates [Along with Beckham and the other rookies] in the same season. Let's have him start @ Boston, or the yankees, or Minnesota, in the middle of a pennant race. Let's get him up as early as possible, I say.

You seriously think his arbitration clock is changed with a call-up this late in the season? If he loses a year of arbitration for being called up at the end of August then every September call-up also loses a year of arbitration... You're post is out there!

khan
08-19-2009, 02:10 PM
You seriously think his arbitration clock is changed with a call-up this late in the season? If he loses a year of arbitration for being called up at the end of August then every September call-up also loses a year of arbitration... You're post is out there!
Really? Out of all the things in that post, you take exception with the arbitration issue? Not the fact that Hudson can't fix an inconsistent offence? Not the fact that Hudson can't fix perhaps the most craptacular defense we've seen in our lifetimes?

[Note that I didn't mention about baserunning gaffes, or sending the gimpy Carlos Quentin home on a fly ball from 3rd, or the inconsistencies in the bullpen, for maybe The Myth of The Legend of Dan Hudson can single-handedly fix all of these things by himself.]

By the way, Josh Fields sucks at baseball. You might want to edit YOUR sig.

jabrch
08-19-2009, 02:23 PM
You seriously think his arbitration clock is changed with a call-up this late in the season? If he loses a year of arbitration for being called up at the end of August then every September call-up also loses a year of arbitration... You're post is out there!

The only way we'd lose a year on him is if he is a Super Two. I can't ever recall that happening with a September callup.

If management thinks Hudson can improve the club, there's no reason in the world not to bring him up in Sept. I've never seen him throw - so I have no idea if he'd be effective at this level or not. But his clock is absolutely not the reason you bring him up or don't.

I'd like to see him finish out the minor league season...but at the same time, I'm ok with him coming up.

DumpJerry
08-19-2009, 02:50 PM
Unless Dan Hudson can catch easy pop flies, easy grounders, turn the routine double play, make the right throws, throw it to Paulie accurately after fielding a grounder, and keep outfielders from running into each other like a bunch of drunks, ALL while throwing no-hitters, I'd guess that Dan Hudson wouldn't help too much in the SOX's pursuit of Detroit.

Unless Dan Hudson can help the team hit pitchers that they've never seen before, I'm guessing he won't help. Unless he can show Dwayne Wise how to lay down a bunt, show Brent Lillibridge how to shorten his swing, show Josh Fields how to hit a routine fastball, show Jayson Nix how to go to the right side, and show Beckham how to hit the slider, I'm guessing he should stay in Charlotte.

Other than that, I guess bringing up Hudson can't hurt, so why not? Let's start his arbitration clock as early as possible. Let's make sure to have as many potential arbitration candidates [Along with Beckham and the other rookies] in the same season. Let's have him start @ Boston, or the yankees, or Minnesota, in the middle of a pennant race. Let's get him up as early as possible, I say.
Not true. We did not start Beckham's clock because of how late (June 2nd) he came up this year.

jabrch
08-19-2009, 03:17 PM
Not true. We did not start Beckham's clock because of how late (June 2nd) he came up this year.

Too early to say that...He has a very good chance of being considered a Super Two.

A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.

So if he never goes off the MLB roster (which is a safe bet) then it will depend on how many innings his peer group play.

But Hudson, coming up in Sept, would have no chance of being Super Two if he makes it next year...

khan
08-19-2009, 03:36 PM
Irrespective of whether or not his arbitration status will be affected, I still wouldn't bring him up. [Which it appears that I was wrong about that; I didn't know...]

Hudson can't fix the craptactular defense by himself, unless he strikes out 27 opposing hitters every time he pitches. If the defense was even mediocre, this team would be running away with the division.

DumpJerry
08-19-2009, 03:38 PM
Hudson can't fix the craptactular defense by himself, unless he strikes out 27 opposing hitters every time he pitches. If the defense was even mediocre, this team would be running away with the division.
Glad to see the word "hyperbole" is not in your vocabulary.

cards press box
08-19-2009, 03:56 PM
Hudson can't fix the craptactular defense by himself.

Alex Rios is a top-flight CF; by himself, he improves the Sox outfield defense a lot.

As for the infield, Beckham has been adjusting to 3B on the fly and has done a good job. Nix is an excellent defender at 2B and Getz is certainly passable at 2B. So the questions about the Sox defense really boil down to Alexei Ramirez at SS. Ramirez is, no doubt, inconsistent but I still see a lot of potential there.

Coming down the stretch, the Sox defense will be fine. The real question is depth in the starting rotation. Contreras' strong start today against KC is encouraging. A healthy and effective Peavy would be even more encouraging.

We just have to wait and see how this all plays out in 2009.

khan
08-19-2009, 04:31 PM
Glad to see the word "hyperbole" is not in your vocabulary.

Look, the point is that [for THIS team] the main thing should be the main thing:

Catch the freakin' ball. This, more than ANYTHING else has hurt the team hereto fore. Not so much the starting pitching, not so much the bullpen.

So rushing a KID to the bigs, in a pennant race, where he might start ~5 to 6 more times might not do much of anything. But the defense HAS TO catch the freakin' ball for 41 more games.

EDIT: Do you disagree? Do you believe that ONE SP, a KID at that, can single-handedly win the division, despite the SOX's crappy defense?

DumpJerry
08-19-2009, 04:42 PM
Look, the point is that [for THIS team] the main thing should be the main thing:

Catch the freakin' ball. This, more than ANYTHING else has hurt the team hereto fore. Not so much the starting pitching, not so much the bullpen.

So rushing a KID to the bigs, in a pennant race, where he might start ~5 to 6 more times might not do much of anything. But the defense HAS TO catch the freakin' ball for 41 more games.

EDIT: Do you disagree? Do you believe that ONE SP, a KID at that, can single-handedly win the division, despite the SOX's crappy defense?
Historically, defense has never been a strong point for the Sox. They just don't emphasize it as much as other teams. Get used to it.

khan
08-19-2009, 06:49 PM
Historically, defense has never been a strong point for the Sox. They just don't emphasize it as much as other teams. Get used to it.

I don't think its too much to ask for mediocre defense. The SOX would have to make a tremendous improvement to reach mediocre.

Since we don't have a good metric for defense, I can't point to any number to explain what we're seeing out of this team. But I'm confident that this is the worst defensive team that I've seen on the South Side in my recollection.

cards press box
08-19-2009, 07:45 PM
I don't think its too much to ask for mediocre defense. The SOX would have to make a tremendous improvement to reach mediocre.

Since we don't have a good metric for defense, I can't point to any number to explain what we're seeing out of this team. But I'm confident that this is the worst defensive team that I've seen on the South Side in my recollection.

I don't know how far back your recollection goes but, believe me, the Sox have had some teams that were much worse defensively than this year's team. The 1977 team was a good team that won 90 games but they had Alan Bannister at SS and Jorge Orta at 2B. I think Bannister had something like 40 errors. And some of Bill Veeck's teams after between 1978 and 1980 had even worse defense.

Alexei Ramirez may have some lapses and make some mistakes but he is a top flight talent. Ramirez just needs time to settle in as a major league SS. Don't forget, he has never played in the minors.

Britt Burns
08-19-2009, 11:12 PM
I don't think we should call up Hudson. He has pitched an awful lot already this year, which is his first full season as a pro. I'd shut him down after Charlotte's season ends and have him compete for the 5th rotation spot in the spring.

Zisk77
08-19-2009, 11:52 PM
I don't know how far back your recollection goes but, believe me, the Sox have had some teams that were much worse defensively than this year's team. The 1977 team was a good team that won 90 games but they had Alan Bannister at SS and Jorge Orta at 2B. I think Bannister had something like 40 errors. And some of Bill Veeck's teams after between 1978 and 1980 had even worse defense.

Alexei Ramirez may have some lapses and make some mistakes but he is a top flight talent. Ramirez just needs time to settle in as a major league SS. Don't forget, he has never played in the minors.


Steve Stone was a member of the 77 sox and recently said that the next time Jorge Orta is able to turn a dp will be the first time.

soxfanreggie
08-20-2009, 09:14 AM
Catch the freakin' ball. This, more than ANYTHING else has hurt the team hereto fore. Not so much the starting pitching, not so much the bullpen.



If you're going to get on people for their grammar, they could get on you for your typing. Khan, meet the correct usage of the spacebar key. :tongue:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heretofore

hawkjt
08-20-2009, 09:20 AM
Freddy has to show a bit more vs Boston...not a lot,but a bit more..like 6 innings, 4 Earned runs would be acceptable next week. Otherwise,Torres is still the next option,I suspect.
The fifth spot comes up at least 2 times ,possibly 3, on this next road trip from hell...hate the thought of throwing Hudson or Torres out there vs Boston,NY or Cubs.

khan
08-20-2009, 09:52 AM
If you're going to get on people for their grammar, they could get on you for your typing. Khan, meet the correct usage of the spacebar key. :tongue:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heretofore
The spell check here had it as "hereto fore." On dictionary.com, it is also "hereto fore." On windows Word, it is also "hereto fore."

If I'm wrong, then these three sources are wrong as well. I also don't think that is anywhere near as big a blunder as confusing "you're" with "your," but that's just one man's opinion.

HomeFish
08-20-2009, 01:25 PM
There is more than one way to skin a cat. If Hudson keeps the defense constant and adds a reliable arm to the starting rotation, that improves the team, no?

Of course, I reject the premise that Hudson would add a reliable arm to the starting rotation at this stage in his career, so I reject the calls to call him up. But I am unimpressed with khan's strange argument.