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View Full Version : Kenny Williams: the White Sox are underachievers


Whitesoxfan23
08-17-2009, 06:52 PM
Vote for your opinion. You can state why if you wish.

soltrain21
08-17-2009, 06:55 PM
How is this team underachieving? They have holes all over the place. The thing is, they wouldn't be even close to where they currently are if it weren't for in season moves (Podsednik, Beckham).

I just think they are entirely mediocre.

JB98
08-17-2009, 06:58 PM
Mediocre.

october23sp
08-17-2009, 07:00 PM
Underachieving. This team has plenty of playmakers that don't show up some days. When one shows up they all do and score 8 runs, when none show up they score 2 runs.

The Immigrant
08-17-2009, 07:12 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/08/white-sox-delayed-by-rain-after-gm-calls-them-underachievers.html

I'd like to see someone here call him a dark cloud.

ShoelessJoeS
08-17-2009, 07:12 PM
Underachievers.

This team has the talent to be very solid, but continues to shoot themselves in the foot. I guess you can say they are their own worst enemy.

But, the season isn't over yet, so there's still time to achieve.

chisoxfanatic
08-17-2009, 07:13 PM
Ask me again when 100% of the season has been completed. There's still a quarter of it left!

soltrain21
08-17-2009, 07:14 PM
I agree they have blown a lot of games, but that is what mediocre teams do. And, as the GM, he should be confident in the product he puts out there. Do you think he is going to say, "You know, I put a pretty average team out there this year."

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2009, 07:16 PM
Kenny is probably trying to light a fire under this team.

I just hope the team doesn't get a cut out of Kenny Williams with removable suit pieces.

http://phoenix.fanster.com/diamondbacks/files/2009/05/major-league-lou-brown-300x222.jpg

Hitmen77
08-17-2009, 07:20 PM
He's absolutely right - the 2009 White Sox are underachievers.

If I were him I'd be totally pissed off at their incredible amount of errors (fielding and mental). Heck, I'm not him and I'm still pissed off.

Frater Perdurabo
08-17-2009, 07:22 PM
I agree they have blown a lot of games, but that is what mediocre teams do. And, as the GM, he should be confident in the product he puts out there. Do you think he is going to say, "You know, I put a pretty average team out there this year."

But KW also has upgraded the roster significantly during the season. This is not a mediocre roster; they have the most talent in the division and a big payroll, and should be in first place.

Since the All-Star break, Dye and Paulie have hit .190 or less. That's the underachieving right there. Both of them had a great first half, but both of them need to step it up and start driving in runs.

oeo
08-17-2009, 07:25 PM
I agree with him. The team coming out of Spring Training was this bad and probably worse. The team now is better than their record indicates. I said it before, I'll say it again: this team is better than last year's. I'll be disappointed with anything less than a division crown. And unlike last year, I think this team can hang in the postseason.

mzh
08-17-2009, 07:25 PM
It depends on what point of the year we are in. If we are 2 games over .500 with DeWayne Wise, Josh Fields, Brian Anderson, and Clayton Richard starting the whole season, then we are just mediocre. If we are 2 games over with Alex Rios, Gordon Beckham, Jake Peavy, and a healthy Carlos Quentin starting, then they are underachievers. As neither has been the case for the entire season, I think this upcoming month will answer that question.

EDIT: A third option for undecided/undetermined would be appreciated

Hitmen77
08-17-2009, 07:25 PM
How is this team underachieving? They have holes all over the place. The thing is, they wouldn't be even close to where they currently are if it weren't for in season moves (Podsednik, Beckham).

I just think they are entirely mediocre.


You're kidding, right? Our lineup of Pods, Quentin, Rios, Dye, Beckham, Ramirez, Getz, Konerko, AJ, Thome is full of holes?:?: The only weak link should be Getz/Nix. Those guys are underachieving, not mediocre.

Pitching wise, we're mediocre right now at 4th and 5th starter (until Peavy comes back). But they're not the ones making errors.

It all comes down to errors and bonehead plays. If we were at least average on defense, we'd be in 1st right now.

soltrain21
08-17-2009, 07:26 PM
But KW also has upgraded the roster significantly during the season. This is not a mediocre roster; they have the most talent in the division and a big payroll, and should be in first place.

Since the All-Star break, Dye and Paulie have hit .190 or less. That's the underachieving right there. Both of them had a great first half, but both of them need to step it up and start driving in runs.

I made the point in the other underachieving thread that it would be crazy to see where the Sox would be without Beckham and Pods.

While I think they are underachieving - it's easy to see this team has holes. And just because they COULD be winning the AL Central doesn't exactly make them great - it just makes them a little bit better than the other teams in the division that also have big holes.

soxyess
08-17-2009, 07:28 PM
What he's saying is bye bye Dye and PK. You cant pay big money for half a season of production. You cant justify bringing these guys back at any salary. They are trending downward and will continue to do so.

soltrain21
08-17-2009, 07:29 PM
You're kidding, right? Our lineup of Pods, Quentin, Rios, Dye, Beckham, Ramirez, Getz, Konerko, AJ, Thome is full of holes?:?: The only weak link should be Getz/Nix. Those guys are underachieving, not mediocre.

Pitching wise, we're mediocre right now at 4th and 5th starter (until Peavy comes back). But they're not the ones making errors.

It all comes down to errors and bonehead plays. If we were at least average on defense, we'd be in 1st right now.


Our offense has been pretty bad all year. Way too inconsistent. Fielding has been the worst I've ever ever seen. We have three starters. I would say there are holes, yes.

And errors and bonehead plays are a pretty big part of the game - you don't win if you don't catch the ball, and this team can't catch the ball.

DSpivack
08-17-2009, 07:30 PM
What he's saying is bye bye Dye and PK. You cant pay big money for half a season of production. You cant justify bringing these guys back at any salary. They are trending downward and will continue to do so.

Well, Konerko is with us through next season.

october23sp
08-17-2009, 07:30 PM
Our offense has been pretty bad all year. Way too inconsistent. Fielding has been the worst I've ever ever seen. We have three starters. I would say there are holes, yes.

And errors and bonehead plays are a pretty big part of the game - you don't win if you don't catch the ball, and this team can't catch the ball.

Those aren't holes though, those are players underachieving.

soltrain21
08-17-2009, 07:31 PM
Those aren't holes though, those are players underachieving.

Or players being terrible fielders - which would mean your defense is a hole. In fact, that is exactly what it means.

Whitesoxfan23
08-17-2009, 07:32 PM
I have no idea how to edit a poll. Mods, if you can, would you add an undecided option? That slipped my mind. Thank you in advance.

Scottiehaswheels
08-17-2009, 07:36 PM
But they are still a "great" team. :cool:

Frater Perdurabo
08-17-2009, 07:39 PM
While I think they are underachieving - it's easy to see this team has holes. And just because they COULD be winning the AL Central doesn't exactly make them great - it just makes them a little bit better than the other teams in the division that also have big holes.

The biggest holes on this team are in their gloves in and their swings.

Other than by significantly increasing payroll (replacing Contreras with Halladay) and/or drastically changing the philosophy of the team (replacing Thome and Dye with Crawford and Figgins), I don't see any significant obvious cost-neutral upgrades to the starting lineup, the starting rotation, or the core of the bullpen, without making trades that would result in sending away young talent.

Chicken Dinner
08-17-2009, 07:41 PM
I think Kenny started the season underachieving himself. Are the players underachieving, some are. It's rare that any player stays hot the entire season though.

Frater Perdurabo
08-17-2009, 07:47 PM
Or players being terrible fielders - which would mean your defense is a hole. In fact, that is exactly what it means.

I agree that they have fielded terribly. So what do we do to improve the defense?

Quentin, Dye and Pods are adquate in the corners.KW addressed the lack of offense and defense in CF by acquiring Rios. AJ actually is having a pretty good season behind the plate. He seems to be throwing out more runners than in years past. Paulie has been solid defensively at 1B.

Thome is a Gold Glove DH. :tongue:

Three-fourths of the infield features players playing their first MLB season at that position. I expect that will improve. Do we pull the plug on Beckham or Alexei? I can see upgrading 2B, but Getz has been pretty good at the plate, too, and was always solid defensively in college and the minors.

So I ask again, how do we upgrade the defense?

In the meantime, I cannot stress enough that Paulie and Dye have sucked at the plate for the last month.

russ99
08-17-2009, 08:04 PM
Or players being terrible fielders - which would mean your defense is a hole. In fact, that is exactly what it means.

Our defense isn't a hole, our focus and execution is. I don't know why that's happened (Contract-year/trade distractions and Kenny ditching underachievers might be part of it) but Ozzie better figure it out soon and get these guys ready to play and focused on the task at hand.

hawkjt
08-17-2009, 08:09 PM
If PK and JD were hitting even .264 the last month, and we won those two this last week that we blew on the road...Kenny would not have to go to the whip.
The pieces are all there, but not yet in place- variation on Wanny.

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-17-2009, 08:14 PM
I agree that they have fielded terribly. So what do we do to improve the defense?

Quentin, Dye and Pods are adquate in the corners.KW addressed the lack of offense and defense in CF by acquiring Rios. AJ actually is having a pretty good season behind the plate. He seems to be throwing out more runners than in years past. Paulie has been solid defensively at 1B.

Thome is a Gold Glove DH. :tongue:

Three-fourths of the infield features players playing their first MLB season at that position. I expect that will improve. Do we pull the plug on Beckham or Alexei? I can see upgrading 2B, but Getz has been pretty good at the plate, too, and was always solid defensively in college and the minors.

So I ask again, how do we upgrade the defense?

In the meantime, I cannot stress enough that Paulie and Dye have sucked at the plate for the last month.

I really think most of the defensive lapses are on the players themselves and no one else. Easy ground balls should be easy outs - that's right Alexei! No more hard picks (impossible at times) for Paulie or Kotsay. I actaully think Beckham has done a fine job at 3B and I can't wait for Getz to get back. I'll take my chances with him.

As far as both Paulie and JD, what do we do here? They should be hitting and they are not at all. If we let JD walk during the offseason, who do we bring in? Paulie is not going anywhere until the end of 2010, so that's that. I want to see both of these guys suceed, I really do.

Domeshot17
08-17-2009, 08:18 PM
Mediocre, easily. We have been hit by injuries, but almost all have been predictable. We have been hit by age, all of it predictable. We have had some kids suck (Fields), some be below average (Getz) and some do great (Gordon), all pretty predictable. The starting rotation in the front 3 has been very good (predictable), and the back end has sucked (again predictable). The Bullpen has been downright bad at times, and that has not been predictable. Jenks has had his up and downs, as has Dotel. Pena's been a nightmare, but most could tell he wasn't any good before we got him.

That is what has been sucky about this season. You could pretty much predict this along time ago, nothing good nor bad has been shocking, outside Beckham who has been better than advertised.

Frater Perdurabo
08-17-2009, 08:18 PM
As far as both Paulie and JD, what do we do here? They should be hitting and they are not at all. If we let JD walk during the offseason, who do we bring in? Paulie is not going anywhere until the end of 2010, so that's that. I want to see both of these guys suceed, I really do.

There's nothing to do with either of them this season except hope they figure it out at the plate. Let's hope they are both just having a slump right now, and that both will finish the season strong.

Frater Perdurabo
08-17-2009, 08:21 PM
some be below average (Getz)

I think you and many others are too harsh on Getz. He's hit .296 since the break (.258 before the break) and is 18/20 in steals. He's had a few defensive lapses but for a rookie he has been solid.

Domeshot17
08-17-2009, 08:42 PM
I think you and many others are too harsh on Getz. He's hit .296 since the break (.258 before the break) and is 18/20 in steals. He's had a few defensive lapses but for a rookie he has been solid.

As of last week (have not looked at updated stats this week busy with work and such), he was in the bottom 20 of 2b in almost every major offensive category, average, OPS, but doing well on the bases. To me, being in the bottom 20 of your position in the bigs is being Below average, just the way it is. Top 5 Great 6-10 Very Good 10-15 Good 15-20 Average 21-25 Below Average 26-30 bad.

Getz is very, very replacable.

Brian26
08-17-2009, 08:50 PM
Underachievers, so far.

This team arguably has the most talent on it of any Sox team in the last 15 years. This might be a team that, 10 years from now, you'll look back at the names on the roster and say, "how did they not win 95 games?" But, that's looking at names on a piece of paper, and everyone here knows games aren't played on paper.

I think they've still got a big run left in them and have the capability of getting hot enough to beat the Yankees or LAA in the ALCS. Call me crazy.

Domeshot17
08-17-2009, 08:52 PM
Underachievers, so far.

This team arguably has the most talent on it of any Sox team in the last 15 years. This might be a team that, 10 years from now, you'll look back at the names on the roster and say, "how did they not win 95 games?" But, that's looking at names on a piece of paper, and everyone here knows games aren't played on paper.

I think they've still got a big run left in them and have the capability of getting hot enough to beat the Yankees or LAA in the ALCS. Call me crazy.

Maybe with Peavy in terms of the end of year roster, but 2004 was a heck of a team.

LoveYourSuit
08-17-2009, 08:57 PM
I agree with him. The team coming out of Spring Training was this bad and probably worse. The team now is better than their record indicates. I said it before, I'll say it again: this team is better than last year's. I'll be disappointed with anything less than a division crown. And unlike last year, I think this team can hang in the postseason.



We have never agreed on anything but that right is 100% on target.

This team is so much better than last year and yet they have still not found a way to make it click.

And I also hold hope that when it does "click," they wiill not be beat because of the pitching in a play off series.

And to see what the division has become 3/4 of the way here, the Sox are HUGE underachievers in my book. It's one of the worst divisions I have seen in a long time. And yet we keep stumbling on our own two feet.

Frater Perdurabo
08-17-2009, 08:59 PM
2004 was a heck of a team.

Until injuries to Maggs and Frank derailed it

Frater Perdurabo
08-17-2009, 09:02 PM
Getz is very, very replacable.

I agree he could be replaced, but we also have to consider that he's a rookie, that his second half has been better than his first half, and it is reasonable to assume he will improve in 2010. Unless he tanks for the rest of this season, I see no reason to give up on Getz unless KW can get a significant upgrade (either at 2B directly, or by moving Beckham to 2B and finding a solid hitting and fielding 3B).

PKalltheway
08-17-2009, 09:21 PM
Maybe with Peavy in terms of the end of year roster, but 2004 was a heck of a team.

Until injuries to Maggs and Frank derailed it
The fact that they had 242 homers as a team, even with Maggs and Big Frank down with injuries for most of the season, is incredible. :o::o::o:

That was a beer-league softball team if there ever was one!:tongue:

TornLabrum
08-17-2009, 10:23 PM
Thus far the Sox could be the dictionary illustration for "mediocrity." Mediocre, but with a future.

Waysouthsider
08-17-2009, 10:33 PM
KW is so right....mental errors, lack of fundamentals, too many awful swings.....This team doesn't seem to have any "groove"....I'll believe in this team when they put together a streak of 6-7 wins....and they'd better do it quick. It seems to get particularly bad when they play weak teams.....they show up for the big ones and then go to sleep on teams like Oakland and KC....

Imagine what things could be like on this next road trip if they don't get their heads together...

jabrch
08-17-2009, 10:38 PM
The absolute worst way to know what Kenny Williams is thinking is to listen to the jibberish that comes out of his mouth. Most figured this was an 85-90 win team going into the season.

doublem23
08-17-2009, 10:47 PM
It's hard to say they're underachievers when you go back to some of the box scores from earlier this year that regularly featured guys like Lillibridge, Wise, Betemit, etc., but it's hard to call these guys mediocre since there's so much talent on the roster right now.

I think the best description of the '09 Sox to this point is a team that never seemed to click for more than a few games in a row. I hate to compare to '05, but that team seemed to have their **** together every night. If the offense could only muster 3 runs, the pitching would hold the other team to 2. If the pitching gave up 7 runs, the offense would find a way to put together 8.

This year it seems like everytime someone allows 2-3 runs, they can only score 1-2, and when they score 8-9, they find a way to allow 10 or more.

BadBobbyJenks
08-17-2009, 10:51 PM
I agreed with everything Kenny said.

gosox41
08-17-2009, 10:55 PM
Vote for your opinion. You can state why if you wish.


Underachievers. This team has more offense depth then the 2005 team. They have a more balanced line up then 2005. Their front 3 SP's are very good. Their bullpen is pretty solid all the way through.


What's killing this team is that on any given day, the offense fails to show, the bullpen has been slumping, JC pitches, or the defense loses focus and makes stupid errors.

This team has yet to fire on all cylinders and I wonder if they ever will. TGhey sem to play down to their competition and it's frustrating. Sometimes I wonder if this team has what it takes to catch Detroit. You watch them agains the Yanks, D Rays or Angels and they're solid. Then they dirty their pants in Minnesota, win one out of 4 in Detroit and then go to Seattle and play like garbage and piss away yet another chances at a sweep.


Bob

Lip Man 1
08-17-2009, 11:13 PM
I voted mediocre and here's why.

I'm trying to put this in a way that explains exactly what I mean.

Kenny deserves MAJOR CREDIT for calling these guys out as well as doing everything that he could to upgrade the talent on this roster since June 1st.

That being said, it wasn't the players who put the team together in the first place. It wasn't the players that "allowed" such subpar talent as Wise, Colon, Contreras, Anderson, MacDougal, Broadway, Egbert, Betemit, Lillibridge and Miller to be on the roster in the first place.

I think it's somewhat unfair of Kenny to blame the players without blaming himself as well.

This team was very bad through Memorial Day (and defensively they are still bad...) they lost a lot of games that had the talent been even up to the usual Sox standards could have been won.

You can't have a "do over" for the first two months. Standings aren't adjusted to reflect how things have gone since June 1st. It all counts.

Again I applaud Kenny calling them out, I applaud his aggressiveness in upgrading the talent but he also has to share in the guilt.

I wish he would have said something along the lines of, "I also take responsibility as G.M. Ultimately what happens falls on me and the moves that I made or didn't make."

I think that would have been very fair.

Lip

Risk
08-17-2009, 11:55 PM
Mediocre.

Risk

JB98
08-18-2009, 12:16 AM
Kenny is probably trying to light a fire under this team.

I just hope the team doesn't get a cut out of Kenny Williams with removable suit pieces.

http://phoenix.fanster.com/diamondbacks/files/2009/05/major-league-lou-brown-300x222.jpg

"It's going to take 25 more victories to win this thing. Every time we win, we peel a section."

I know in the movie it was going to take 30 more victories, but in this pennant race, I think 25 will be enough.

rwcescato
08-18-2009, 01:57 AM
nothing but mediocre. At 3 over .500 is not good. I am excited about this club but the errors are killing this team. This team needs to click now and go on a big run of 15 out of 20 or something like that. If this team can put it together and get hot for the playoffs it couls win it all.

:)

Mohoney
08-18-2009, 02:23 AM
I voted "underachievers" because of their awful records against some of the real dregs.

Toronto, 1-6
Oakland, 3-4
Minnesota, 5-7
Kansas City, 7-6
Cleveland, 8-7
Baltimore, 3-3

Compare that to the records against these good teams.
New York, 3-1
LAA, 4-2
LAD, 2-1
Tampa Bay, 6-2

A combined record of 15-6 against those 4 good teams proves to me that they have the talent to compete. Maybe it's a flawed way to look at things, because 21 games isn't a huge sample size, but for some reason I keep bringing myself back to these games when I judge this team.

The real problems with this team are that they're bad defensively, they're bad baserunners, and they're bad at scoring runners from 3rd with less than 2 out. Being bad in those areas seems more like underachieving than mediocrity.

kufram
08-18-2009, 02:44 AM
underachievers so far. The lack of clutch hits is staggering and that alone has kept them from being 10-12 games over .500 Minimize the errors and look out.

doublem23
08-18-2009, 07:23 AM
underachievers so far. The lack of clutch hits is staggering and that alone has kept them from being 10-12 games over .500 Minimize the errors and look out.

FWIW, the Sox are hitting .270 this year with RISP, tied for 4th in the American League, and over the league average.

They're even better with RISP & 2 out, .257, 4th by themselves and well above the league average.

voodoochile
08-18-2009, 09:13 AM
I voted "underachievers" because of their awful records against some of the real dregs.

Toronto, 1-6
Oakland, 3-4
Minnesota, 5-7
Kansas City, 7-6
Cleveland, 8-7
Baltimore, 3-3

Just to be picky, I wouldn't call Toronto a dreg. They have a winning record against all of the central and the west, but are 13 under against the powerhouse east and for some reason in interleague play too.

The rest obviously aren't great numbers but 3 of those teams are in the ALC so you expect a harder fight.

Up until mid June this really was a mediocre team in terms of talent and depth and injuries weren't helping. If they can stay healthy and hold on until Peavy is ready they should make a nice run. Too much talent not to.

spawn
08-18-2009, 09:48 AM
Just to be picky, I wouldn't call Toronto a dreg. They have a winning record against all of the central and the west, but are 13 under against the powerhouse east and for some reason in interleague play too.

They were also one of the hottest tems in baseball when they played the Sox this year.

beasly213
08-18-2009, 09:50 AM
I think Kenny is getting tired of the Sox attitude of "Oh well at least we took 2 out of 3" Like he said yesterday there are a dozen games this year where we should have won but blew it. If we win half of those damn games we are in first place with a good lead.

I'm glad Kenny and Ozzie are holding these players accountable for their poor play at times.

voodoochile
08-18-2009, 09:52 AM
They were also one of the hottest tems in baseball when they played the Sox this year.

And the Sox still had Betemit, Fields and Lilibridge getting regular PT and no Quentin too boot.

jabrch
08-18-2009, 10:17 AM
I think Kenny is getting tired of the Sox attitude of "Oh well at least we took 2 out of 3" Like he said yesterday there are a dozen games this year where we should have won but blew it. If we win half of those damn games we are in first place with a good lead.

I'm glad Kenny and Ozzie are holding these players accountable for their poor play at times.


If Kenny were ever honest to the media and the fans, which I am glad he isn't, he would say he is thrilled to go out and win 2 of 3 in Oakland. He will spit out sillyness like this, and it will energize the fans. But we should know better - it's just fluff. Kenny being Kenny.

As far as "holding them accountable" I am not so sure what proves that. Has anyone gotten benched? Is anyone doing extra fielding drills? Has anyone been cut? Demoted? I don't see anyone being really held accountable. I see a manager and a GM playing to the fans and the media. It's a smart move on their part. Certainly they look great compared to Hendy and Lou who seem to make excuses left and right. But at the end of the day it is mock anger and imaginary accountability unless they actually do something.

Domeshot17
08-18-2009, 10:28 AM
If Kenny were ever honest to the media and the fans, which I am glad he isn't, he would say he is thrilled to go out and win 2 of 3 in Oakland. He will spit out sillyness like this, and it will energize the fans. But we should know better - it's just fluff. Kenny being Kenny.

As far as "holding them accountable" I am not so sure what proves that. Has anyone gotten benched? Is anyone doing extra fielding drills? Has anyone been cut? Demoted? I don't see anyone being really held accountable. I see a manager and a GM playing to the fans and the media. It's a smart move on their part. Certainly they look great compared to Hendy and Lou who seem to make excuses left and right. But at the end of the day it is mock anger and imaginary accountability unless they actually do something.

If you think Kenny is hapy the Sox continue to be unable to sweep which has kept them just a few games over .500, you are nuts.

beasly213
08-18-2009, 10:41 AM
If Kenny were ever honest to the media and the fans, which I am glad he isn't, he would say he is thrilled to go out and win 2 of 3 in Oakland. He will spit out sillyness like this, and it will energize the fans. But we should know better - it's just fluff. Kenny being Kenny.

As far as "holding them accountable" I am not so sure what proves that. Has anyone gotten benched? Is anyone doing extra fielding drills? Has anyone been cut? Demoted? I don't see anyone being really held accountable. I see a manager and a GM playing to the fans and the media. It's a smart move on their part. Certainly they look great compared to Hendy and Lou who seem to make excuses left and right. But at the end of the day it is mock anger and imaginary accountability unless they actually do something.

-Yes Ozzie had them out there at 11am yesterday.

And if you think Kenny and Ozzie are thrilled about being 2 games back when they could be 4-5 games up you are nuts.

jabrch
08-18-2009, 10:52 AM
-Yes Ozzie had them out there at 11am yesterday.

And if you think Kenny and Ozzie are thrilled about being 2 games back when they could be 4-5 games up you are nuts.

Nobody said they are thrilled. But that's a totally different story. This is not black and white. You are not either "thrilled" or "furious".

This team was expected by many to be an 85-90 win team and contend in this division. It's trending that way. A manager and a GM of a major league baseball team don't get mad over winning 2 of 3 in a series on the road. That's not real. That's stuff for fans. But ranting and raving is not the same as holding people accountable. Hell - KW can go back to flipping over a table for all I care. People will talk about his fire and passion. The players, meanwhile, will chuckle and go right back to doing what they do.

thedudeabides
08-18-2009, 11:03 AM
Nobody said they are thrilled. But that's a totally different story. This is not black and white. You are not either "thrilled" or "furious".

This team was expected by many to be an 85-90 win team and contend in this division. It's trending that way. A manager and a GM of a major league baseball team don't get mad over winning 2 of 3 in a series on the road. That's not real. That's stuff for fans. But ranting and raving is not the same as holding people accountable. Hell - KW can go back to flipping over a table for all I care. People will talk about his fire and passion. The players, meanwhile, will chuckle and go right back to doing what they do.


It's hard for GM's to hold players accountable now, but they should be worried in the offseason. If you think you have been put on warning, you should pay attention, see Orlando Cabrera, Javier Vasquez, and Nick Swisher. All were not brought back for different reasons, but I wouldn't want to get on Kenny's **** list.

I do agree some of it is just peception, and some just frustration. I'm glad he does speak out. Any attempt to get this team to focus on defense is worth it in my opinion.

Madvora
08-18-2009, 11:12 AM
I'd say underachievers just because we've blown so many games that were right there for the taking. We've played plenty of games well enough to have a noticeably better record.

jabrch
08-18-2009, 11:35 AM
It's hard for GM's to hold players accountable now, but they should be worried in the offseason. If you think you have been put on warning, you should pay attention, see Orlando Cabrera, Javier Vasquez, and Nick Swisher. All were not brought back for different reasons, but I wouldn't want to get on Kenny's **** list.

I do agree some of it is just peception, and some just frustration. I'm glad he does speak out. Any attempt to get this team to focus on defense is worth it in my opinion.


I agree with that entirely. But his huffing and puffing - that's not "accountability". That's noise.

He held BA and Lillibridge accountable for sucking. But he had the abilty to do so. What's he going to do with Linebrink? Pods glove? Contreras? Nothing because he can't really do much with them. That's a big problem in pro sports - in baseball in particular, the guaranteed deals really make it hard for management to push players to do much. I'm glad KW has avoided the big fat long term deals (6+ years) but it does limit his options in terms of the type of player who would come here.

Ahhhh whatever...

Let's get into first place and gain some ground before the road trip from hell.

Lillian
08-18-2009, 12:38 PM
Not only do I agree with K. W., but I've been saying as much.
At the beginning of the season, if you had told me that we would have most everyone healthy, and that Pods and Beckham would emerge as such pleasant surprises, I would have guessed that we would be running away with this division.

LITTLE NELL
08-18-2009, 02:44 PM
Its hard to get much over .500 when you only have 3 quality starters so though I give him props for obtaining Peavy its basically KWs fault for starting the season with Contrares and Colon as our 4th and 5th starters and tonight we get Garcia.

A. Cavatica
08-18-2009, 10:59 PM
Mediocre AND underachieving.

I can see the argument for underachieving: they play with no urgency, they don't come back when they're down, they give away winnable games to bad teams on bad fielding and baserunning, and they can't sweep series.

But this team's mediocre to start with.

Does this team have a core of battle-tested veterans? Sure -- Dye, Thome, Konerko, Pierzynski, Podsednik, Contreras, Dotel, Linebrink.

Does it have promising young talent? Lots -- Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Beckham, Ramirez, Getz.

Does it have perennial All-Stars in the prime of their careers? No. Buehrle and Jenks have never reached that level; Peavy hasn't pitched for us yet; and who knows what we have in Rios?

Our best player is a lefthanded setup man.

Our manager is bad at judging talent and bad at in-game managing. He preaches fundamentals, but his team's horrible at them. He threatens retaliation when his players get hit, but never follows through.

If the AL Central had any good teams in it at all, we'd be under .500.