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View Full Version : Forget the pitching, Our offense is our biggest worry.


Whitesoxfan23
08-17-2009, 03:52 AM
With the exception of Jose, our pitching has been pretty damn good. I think more focus needs to be put on what the hell we should do about our inconsistent offense. We have seen this since the last half of 06.

We see shades of them breaking out of it, then it's back to square one. The Sox obviously won't fire Walker for whatever reason, so anybody have any other ideas to fix this ongoing problem?

LITTLE NELL
08-17-2009, 05:04 AM
At the end of the year they will all have good numbers but they are so damn inconsistant. Very streaky when it comes to hitting.

Chez
08-17-2009, 06:47 AM
So long as our starting pitching holds up, we will win the division. I truly believe that.

LITTLE NELL
08-17-2009, 06:50 AM
So long as our starting pitching holds up, we will win the division. I truly believe that.
The next road trip could be the deciding factor, of course we have to take care of business this week at home.

SOXSINCE'70
08-17-2009, 07:05 AM
The next road trip could be the deciding factor, of course we have to take care of business this week at home.

That 11 game road trip is the "make or break" point.
4 in Bawston, 3 in New Yawk, 3 in the "doom dome" and a makeup
against the sCrUBS.That will tell the story.

balke
08-17-2009, 08:16 AM
I don't have any worries right now. Sox have 2 more trips through the rotation without Peavy?

I think with Rios and Kotsay this lineup is going to be more consistant. Would've liked to see one more clutch hit last night, but I think any team goes through that. 2 series from now if the Sox haven't made ground on Detroit, I'll worry.

dickallen15
08-17-2009, 08:33 AM
That 11 game road trip is the "make or break" point.
4 in Bawston, 3 in New Yawk, 3 in the "doom dome" and a makeup
against the sCrUBS.That will tell the story.

Unless they just lose every game on the trip, the make or break point will be the last 9 games of the season. 3 vs. Cleveland and 6 vs. Det.

As for the offense, why wasn't this posted after they put up 8 runs on Friday and 8 runs on Saturday? They score 2 and "lets slit our wrists over the offense" start again. Jeez.

soxrme
08-17-2009, 09:13 AM
You are correct but I would like to not see Pods in the outfield at the end of the game.

hawkjt
08-17-2009, 09:14 AM
I think the offense is a bit better than last year.

The GOOD:
Pods- remarkably consistent..right around .300 all year,best hitting leadoff man the Sox have had for awhile.
Beckham- since his 0-14 start, incredibly consistent. Since he started hitting I do not think anyone can dispute he has been the best hitter on the team and when he has a brief slump(seattle) the sox really struggle.
AJ- another guy who has been very consistently around .300 the whole year..still refuses to take walks,and tends to be overanxious in clutch hitting situations, but as a catcher hard to complain about his average.

The BAD:

Nix- in his defense, only a parttime player til recently,and was injured early in the year,and has been better of late,with good patience, but that patience leads to him taking strikes down the middle often, and then strikeouts in key at bats. I like his potential but cannot sugarcoat his average...has hit for power tho.

Carlos: hesitate to put him here due to injury,but the average is what it is..he struggled before he went on the dl,also. Recently better until Seattle..I still have faith he can come back eventually, but might not be this year.

BA and DWise- two peas in a pod offensively while sharing cf.

The INCONSISTENT:

Alexei- started horribly, got hot,back to respectable, but still prone to slumps. Good power, but still a lot of non-quality at bats,imo.

Thome- injuries again have slowed him, which is hard to do when you are that slow to begin with. Somehow keeps his oba at around .400..hits .250..mainly homers, but no real hot streak the whole season..I concede it is hard to expect a lot more, but the injuries put him in this category.

PK- hot first half, ice-cold second half so far...sound familiar? I like PK but this is clearly a pattern for him...banged up,but really killing us since the allstar break...right now, would prefer Kotsay out there.

JD- hot first half,ice cold since all star break. PK and JD are the engine and both have sputtered big time since the break. It has killed the sox and resulted in .500 record. Shows signs of breaking out in Oakland...please.

Undetermined:

Rios is 3-19 since arriving...trying too hard,imo. Cut down the swing Alex and make contact,and forget impressing us with homers.

Getz has been better of late,but seems fragile. I like his contact bat,but not sure he can be counted on yet.

Castro is bad,but has very occasional power.
Kotsay has raked since arriving. Play him more.


Last year and 07 it seems like even a .300 hitter was a hopeless dream for the sox...AJ,Gordo,and Pods have been at .300 most of the year.
We are better ,but still need PK and JD to heat up to have a shot.

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-17-2009, 10:15 AM
This all falls on JD and Paulie. If you want to call yourself the captain of the team, then start acting like it. We can't expect Beck and Pods to carry this team.

As far as Nix goes, I like the approach at the plate, but for god's sake why are you taking so many wonderful pitches! He hurts himself by being patient.

spawn
08-17-2009, 10:33 AM
As far as Nix goes, I like the approach at the plate, but for god's sake why are you taking so many wonderful pitches! He hurts himself by being patient.
:?: If he wasn't patient, people would say he needed to be more patient at the plate. I have no problem with his patience at the plate.

Chicken Dinner
08-17-2009, 10:42 AM
I think I'm more concern about the league leading 90 errors than the offense.

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-17-2009, 10:45 AM
I think I'm more concern about the league leading 90 errors than the offense.

Giving 4-5 outs an inning has lost us more than a few 1-2 run games.

I think the offense is spotty too, but I also think that moving guys in and out (Rios/Kotsay) does have an impact on the flow of the order. That is the tradeoff for Ozzie's "good headache".

And Alexei needs to stop swinging for the fences on every pitch.

Eddo144
08-17-2009, 01:08 PM
The GOOD:
Pods- remarkably consistent..right around .300 all year,best hitting leadoff man the Sox have had for awhile.
This is a misconception. Podsednik has not been hitting well for a while now. There was an article at the Hardball Times (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/random-scott-podsednik-stuff/) last week discussing Pods.

In his first 19 games (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=3.98#751-769-sum:batting_gamelogs) with the Sox, he hit .268/.303/.324; that's bad.
In his next 36 games (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=1.87#770-805-sum:batting_gamelogs) with the Sox, he hit .340/.401/.455; that's great.
In his next 36 games (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=3.24#806-841-sum:batting_gamelogs)* with the Sox, he hit .264/.313/.351; that's bad again.

(* I used B-R to get up-to-date data that the article linked above doesn't have.)

Don't get me wrong, he did carry the team for a good portion of time, but since then, he's been below average. And he definitely hasn't been consistent.

oeo
08-17-2009, 01:12 PM
:?: If he wasn't patient, people would say he needed to be more patient at the plate. I have no problem with his patience at the plate.

I think what he's saying is that Nix is taking too many "good" strikes, i.e. the ones he should be hitting into play. This is Nick Swisher's problem, and why he can only bat ~.230...he's looking for a walk instead of a hit.

Ron Karkovice
08-17-2009, 01:13 PM
Besides our defense which has been consistently bad... Every aspect of the White Sox has been inconsistent.

oeo
08-17-2009, 01:16 PM
Yesterday was an awful day offensively. They had me pissed off by the second inning with all their ****ty AB's. It seemed like they were more interested in getting home than scoring runs and winning the game. It bit them in the butt.

I will say once again, however, this offense blows last year's out of the water. At least we're able to score runs without the homerun this year.

hawkjt
08-17-2009, 01:58 PM
This is a misconception. Podsednik has not been hitting well for a while now. There was an article at the Hardball Times (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/random-scott-podsednik-stuff/) last week discussing Pods.

In his first 19 games (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=3.98#751-769-sum:batting_gamelogs) with the Sox, he hit .268/.303/.324; that's bad.
In his next 36 games (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=1.87#770-805-sum:batting_gamelogs) with the Sox, he hit .340/.401/.455; that's great.
In his next 36 games (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=3.24#806-841-sum:batting_gamelogs)* with the Sox, he hit .264/.313/.351; that's bad again.

(* I used B-R to get up-to-date data that the article linked above doesn't have.)

Don't get me wrong, he did carry the team for a good portion of time, but since then, he's been below average. And he definitely hasn't been consistent.

Well, after his first 18 games climbing to .303 on May 25, Pods has stayed in a range of .310- .292 for the next 72 games...and sits at .296 today.

So over the last 72 games of his 90 starts this year, he has been above .290 in average, mainly around .300...the those 72 games.
Now ,there are ups and downs within those 72 games, but to me, he has been more consistent than everyone but Beckham and AJ..not bad for a 700k last second pickup. Meanwhile JD and PK,who make about 25 million between them ,have hit a combined .150 the last 40 games.

Pods may not be exactly .300 everyday, but he is way better than 90% of the other hitters on this team.

Eddo144
08-17-2009, 02:13 PM
Well, after his first 18 games climbing to .303 on May 25, Pods has stayed in a range of .310- .292 for the next 72 games...and sits at .296 today.

So over the last 72 games of his 90 starts this year, he has been above .290 in average, mainly around .300...the those 72 games.
Now ,there are ups and downs within those 72 games, but to me, he has been more consistent than everyone but Beckham and AJ..not bad for a 700k last second pickup. Meanwhile JD and PK,who make about 25 million between them ,have hit a combined .150 the last 40 games.

Pods may not be exactly .300 everyday, but he is way better than 90% of the other hitters on this team.
Yeah, he's still at .296, but that's because, 36 games ago, he was at .317. His average has declined steadily (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=3.24#806-841-sum:batting_gamelogs) since then.

He was much better than just about everyone else on the team, for 36 games. Because those 36 games count towards his season totals, his overall numbers still look mostly good. He has definitely not been consistent, though; his season basically consists of one really hot streak surrounded by two cold streaks.

bigdommer
08-17-2009, 02:20 PM
Yeah, he's still at .296, but that's because, 36 games ago, he was at .317. His average has declined steadily (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=3.24#806-841-sum:batting_gamelogs) since then.

He was much better than just about everyone else on the team, for 36 games. Because those 36 games count towards his season totals, his overall numbers still look mostly good. He has definitely not been consistent, though; his season basically consists of one really hot streak surrounded by two cold streaks.

I am confused. Don't all the games count the same? Beckham's batting under .100 if you only count his first ten games. Bobby's the worst pitcher in the majors if you only count his last ten games.

Eddo144
08-17-2009, 02:39 PM
I am confused. Don't all the games count the same? Beckham's batting under .100 if you only count his first ten games. Bobby's the worst pitcher in the majors if you only count his last ten games.
They do. And when judging Podsednik's entire 2009 season, we certainly can say it was a good year (so far).

However, at this point in time, he is not hitting well. His overall numbers are still good, because he was on fire for 36 games, but he is trending downward. Maybe he has nagging injuries, or maybe he's just exhausted; or maybe he was just playing over-his-head for those 36 games.

I only posted this because hawkjt said he has been consistent on the year, when that is very far from the truth.

hawkjt
08-17-2009, 02:41 PM
Yeah, he's still at .296, but that's because, 36 games ago, he was at .317. His average has declined steadily (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=3.24#806-841-sum:batting_gamelogs) since then.

He was much better than just about everyone else on the team, for 36 games. Because those 36 games count towards his season totals, his overall numbers still look mostly good. He has definitely not been consistent, though; his season basically consists of one really hot streak surrounded by two cold streaks.


On this team, hitting .264 for 36 games does not constitute a cold streak.
For some, it is a hot streak.

voodoochile
08-17-2009, 02:42 PM
On this team, hitting .264 for 36 games does not constitute a cold streak.
For some, it is a hot streak.

Just curious, other than Wise, who?

hawkjt
08-17-2009, 02:47 PM
They do. And when judging Podsednik's entire 2009 season, we certainly can say it was a good year (so far).

However, at this point in time, he is not hitting well. His overall numbers are still good, because he was on fire for 36 games, but he is trending downward. Maybe he has nagging injuries, or maybe he's just exhausted; or maybe he was just playing over-his-head for those 36 games.

I only posted this because hawkjt said he has been consistent on the year, when that is very far from the truth.


Since the last game in July ,Pods is 19 of 65....right around .300 in his last 15 games roughly...does that mean he is hot again?

Ron Karkovice
08-17-2009, 02:47 PM
Just curious, other than Wise, who?

Nix!

hawkjt
08-17-2009, 02:50 PM
Just curious, other than Wise, who?


Wise,Nix,Castro,Anderson,Owens,Fields,Lillibridge, Carlos. We have plenty of sub-.264 hitters that have seen action this year. Many have been tried in the lead-off spot like Wise,Nix,Anderson,and Owens.

voodoochile
08-17-2009, 02:51 PM
Nix!

Yeah, but he at least generates decent power numbers and takes a bunch of walks. His OPS is really pretty solid.

voodoochile
08-17-2009, 02:54 PM
Wise,Nix,Castro,Anderson,Owens,Fields,Lillibridge, Carlos. We have plenty of sub-.264 hitters that have seen action this year. Many have been tried in the lead-off spot like Wise,Nix,Anderson,and Owens.

Over half those players are gone, one of them is still struggling with an injury, one of them doesn't bat and the other two are getting at most 2 starts a week when everyone's healthy.

The starters (the ones who get the vast majority of the at bats when everyone is healthy) all are hitting better than that (save TCQ who again is still struggling with an injury and has had some horrible luck recently stinging balls right at guys).

I'm assuming you were being sarcastic, but still. Might as well list Thome too...

hawkjt
08-17-2009, 03:01 PM
The team average is .262 overall.
So, Pods having ''cold spell'' of 36 games hitting a mere.264 is not exactly rare on this team.

Guess I am sick of hearing how bad Pods is despite being third on the team at .296 after watching others fail miserably at the leadoff spot the first month or so.

A few weeks ago Ozzie is calling Pods our MVP, now he is dogcrap,I guess.

Whitesoxfan23
08-17-2009, 03:31 PM
I agree that our defense is a huge problem as well. This team is terrible on defense.

Hitmen77
08-17-2009, 03:39 PM
With the exception of Jose, our pitching has been pretty damn good. I think more focus needs to be put on what the hell we should do about our inconsistent offense. We have seen this since the last half of 06.

We see shades of them breaking out of it, then it's back to square one. The Sox obviously won't fire Walker for whatever reason, so anybody have any other ideas to fix this ongoing problem?

Don't worry, once the weather warms up the bats will too.

But seriously, while the offense has been inconsistent, it's the poor defense and mental errors that are killing us. Just look at this just completed road trip. If Pods doesn't make the boneheaded mistake of getting picked off of THIRD BASE:angry:, there's a very good chance that the Sox would have won that game 1-0. We would have come home from a 4-2 west coast road trip, and we'd be 1 game closer to Detroit.

While our upcoming schedule is tough, I believe the Sox have the talent to match up against NYY, Bos, LAA, and the other teams we will be facing. The problem is that we're beating ourselves with our sloppy play. Unless the Sox can magically put a stop to it, I like our chances even with our hot and cold offense. If we continue with the errors, then we'll finish as we are now - near the .500 mark.

Eddo144
08-17-2009, 03:47 PM
A few weeks ago Ozzie is calling Pods our MVP, now he is dogcrap,I guess.
Yes, that is exactly what I said.

Come on. You said he was consistent. I gave ample evidence that that is not true. Has he been a bright spot? Yes, I acknowledged that. On the whole, has he had a good season? Yes, and again, I acknowledged that.

You mention he's 19/65 since the last game in July. That works out to a .292 average (lower than his full-season average), with a below-average .324 on-base percentage and a poor .400 slugging percentage. That is not particularly good, so yeah, I'd say he's still on a "cold streak".

JB98
08-17-2009, 03:55 PM
I think I'm more concern about the league leading 90 errors than the offense.

This.

The club is 15-20 in one-run games this year. IMO, bad defense is the biggest reason for that. It's more than just the errors, too. There are other bad defensive plays being made that do not show up in the error column.

russ99
08-17-2009, 04:04 PM
Yes, that is exactly what I said.

Come on. You said he was consistent. I gave ample evidence that that is not true. Has he been a bright spot? Yes, I acknowledged that. On the whole, has he had a good season? Yes, and again, I acknowledged that.

You mention he's 19/65 since the last game in July. That works out to a .292 average (lower than his full-season average), with a below-average .324 on-base percentage and a poor .400 slugging percentage. That is not particularly good, so yeah, I'd say he's still on a "cold streak".

Wonderful. Another thread calling out Pods on his slugging percentage. Tell me this, how many other players on the team could leg out a triple like that yesterday? He really looks like he has "nagging injuries".

The best part about Pods this year is that when he has a bad game or two with the bat, he then has a good game and goes 2 or 3-4. He's not had any kind of "bad streak" all year. As long as he stays around the .300 mark, works the count and disrupts when on base, I'll be willing to overlook the occasional pickoffs and a iffy defensive play here or there.

Eddo144
08-17-2009, 04:43 PM
The best part about Pods this year is that when he has a bad game or two with the bat, he then has a good game and goes 2 or 3-4. He's not had any kind of "bad streak" all year. As long as he stays around the .300 mark, works the count and disrupts when on base, I'll be willing to overlook the occasional pickoffs and a iffy defensive play here or there.
Again, over the last 36 games (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=3.24#806-841-sum:batting_gamelogs), he's hitting .264/.313/.351. In what league is that not a "bad streak"?

As for staying around .300, his average has dropped 29 points in that time frame.

If, for the rest of the year, he hits his full-season averages (.296/.348/.389), then that's great, and, as you say, I'm fine with some defensive lapses. However, to say he hasn't been streaky or that he hasn't struggled over the last six weeks is to ignore reality.

russ99
08-17-2009, 07:55 PM
Again, over the last 36 games (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=podsesc01&t=b&year=2009&share=3.24#806-841-sum:batting_gamelogs), he's hitting .264/.313/.351. In what league is that not a "bad streak"?

As for staying around .300, his average has dropped 29 points in that time frame.

If, for the rest of the year, he hits his full-season averages (.296/.348/.389), then that's great, and, as you say, I'm fine with some defensive lapses. However, to say he hasn't been streaky or that he hasn't struggled over the last six weeks is to ignore reality.

.264 isn't a bad streak. Some players on this club haven't sniffed that. Dye's been on a bad streak, Paul's been on a bad streak.

How much does Scott need to do? Hit .330?

Frater Perdurabo
08-17-2009, 07:58 PM
This.

The club is 15-20 in one-run games this year. IMO, bad defense is the biggest reason for that. It's more than just the errors, too. There are other bad defensive plays being made that do not show up in the error column.

JB, I agree that the defense has been atrocious. But what can KW to upgrade it this season? I just don't see any obvious moves, other than for Ozzie to make the guys run laps around the field for every boneheaded mental error they make.

Eddo144
08-17-2009, 08:06 PM
.264 isn't a bad streak. Some players on this club haven't sniffed that. Dye's been on a bad streak, Paul's been on a bad streak.
So just because some other players are having even worse cold streaks, Podsednik's numbers are actually good? You're grasping at straws now.

How much does Scott need to do? Hit .330?
This is from the post of mine that you quoted:
If, for the rest of the year, he hits his full-season averages (.296/.348/.389), then that's great, and, as you say, I'm fine with some defensive lapses.
I'd be happy with .296/.348/.389. And don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for Podsednik. The Sox would not be in contention this year without his May and June; if he had kept that up through July and the first half of August, they would be in even better shape, though.

Daver
08-17-2009, 08:24 PM
With the exception of Jose, our pitching has been pretty damn good. I think more focus needs to be put on what the hell we should do about our inconsistent offense. We have seen this since the last half of 06.

We see shades of them breaking out of it, then it's back to square one. The Sox obviously won't fire Walker for whatever reason, so anybody have any other ideas to fix this ongoing problem?

You can't hit your way to a championship, the Sox tried it throughout the nineties, I think they are in the top five in wins for that decade, and it gained them nothing, Kenny Williams put more emphasis on pitching when he took over, and won a championship.

Lip Man 1
08-17-2009, 11:21 PM
Daver:

If memory serves from one of the last Sox media guides from that decade, the Sox finished third in MLB in total wins for the period from 1990-1999 (behind the Yankees and Braves) yet had only one playoff appearance to show for it.

Lip

hawkjt
08-17-2009, 11:42 PM
Yes, that is exactly what I said.

Come on. You said he was consistent. I gave ample evidence that that is not true. Has he been a bright spot? Yes, I acknowledged that. On the whole, has he had a good season? Yes, and again, I acknowledged that.

You mention he's 19/65 since the last game in July. That works out to a .292 average (lower than his full-season average), with a below-average .324 on-base percentage and a poor .400 slugging percentage. That is not particularly good, so yeah, I'd say he's still on a "cold streak".


Well, now Pods is 21 for his last 70....which is a nice neat .300 in his last 16 games....how long before he is deemed hot again?

JB98
08-18-2009, 12:29 AM
JB, I agree that the defense has been atrocious. But what can KW to upgrade it this season? I just don't see any obvious moves, other than for Ozzie to make the guys run laps around the field for every boneheaded mental error they make.

For one thing, they need to get Dye out of the outfield. He still has a good throwing arm, but his range is really limited now. I'm in favor of waving goodbye to Thome and moving Dye to DH in 2010.

I still have a lot of issues with Ramirez at shortstop. I'd be tempted to send him to winter ball to learn how to play outfield. Then, I'd move Beckham to short and go shopping for a new third baseman. But KW isn't going to do any of that. I get the sense the Sox have a much higher opinion of Ramirez as a shortstop than I do.

There are three young players starting in the infield. Cross your fingers and hope they get better. That's probably going to be what the Sox do. I'm pretty confident Beckham will become a good third baseman if that's what the Sox want him to do. I've already seen improvement from him in the two and a half months he's been with the Sox.

Ramirez, OTOH, continues to play out of control at times, and he appears to be afraid of contact around the bag. I think that's why Pierzynski yelled at him in the dugout at Minnesota. The Sox manager was a pretty fair shortstop in his day, so hopefully he can help Ramirez fix his defensive shortcomings. Alexei has the raw tools, but we need results.

Mohoney
08-18-2009, 03:29 AM
My only problem with this offense is the amount of runners we leave on 3B with less than 2 outs. If that is fixed, I guarantee that the whole "too home run reliant" or "can't play small ball" mentality would go away real fast.

bigdommer
08-18-2009, 07:28 AM
Well, now Pods is 21 for his last 70....which is a nice neat .300 in his last 16 games....how long before he is deemed hot again?

Hot or not, Pods has gotten so many big hits, including last night. We need an official "big hit" tally on a sticky thread. I can't imagine anyone has more than Pods.

Ron Karkovice
08-18-2009, 09:27 AM
Hot or not, Pods has gotten so many big hits, including last night. We need an official "big hit" tally on a sticky thread. I can't imagine anyone has more than Pods.

This is true. When he got picked off of 3b two of those vanished!

bigdommer
08-18-2009, 10:25 AM
This is true. When he got picked off of 3b two of those vanished!

Two? I don't get it.