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SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 05:38 PM
Bool

GoGoCrede
08-16-2009, 05:38 PM
Ugh.

...
08-16-2009, 05:39 PM
Can Jake Peavy close?

aryzner
08-16-2009, 05:39 PM
Blew the opportunities that would have won this game

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-16-2009, 05:39 PM
Well, that sucked.

Soxman219
08-16-2009, 05:39 PM
:(:

GoGoCrede
08-16-2009, 05:39 PM
Beat me to it!

That blew.

doublem23
08-16-2009, 05:39 PM
Happy to win the series, but disappointing to blow another chance to pick up a game on Detroit and Minnesota. :(:

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 05:39 PM
If I hear "only in Oakland" then I'm internet punching someone.

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-16-2009, 05:39 PM
Will we ever figure out how to not waste good pitching?

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
A nice series win, and a nice 3-3 trip in places we don't play well.

Blueprint1
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
What a joke we can't sweep anyone.

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
I think the whole "Sox lack a killer instinct" argument is lame, but games like this give it ammunition.

october23sp
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
Saw that **** coming. I officially hate Bobby Jenks. Only player on the current roster I hate. ****ing sucks.

SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
Nothing to say. WSI will melt down about how we can't sweep, we suck with RISP, and that Bobby is fat again.

Commence.

GoGoCrede
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
If I hear "only in Oakland" then I'm internet punching someone.

Only in Oakland.


:tongue:

MrX
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
At least we don't have to listen to Mike Huff anymore:bandance:

#1swisher
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
Best title! No sweep...how many is that?

Lundind1
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
Just kinda sucks that we had chance after chance. I think that Jenks might be having some serious problems.

SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
A nice series win, and a nice 3-3 trip in places we don't play well.

I like you ! :)

ms620
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
I guess it was too much to ask to get another good performance from Bobby. Every ball that inning was hit solid.

FielderJones
08-16-2009, 05:40 PM
Bobby in a non-save situation. Recipe for ending badly. :mad:

october23sp
08-16-2009, 05:41 PM
Nothing to say. WSI will melt down about how we can't sweep, we suck with RISP, and that Bobby is fat again.

Commence.

Hes not so much fat as he is just pure piece of **** sucky.

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 05:41 PM
Saw that **** coming. I officially hate Bobby Jenks. Only player on the current roster I hate. ****ing sucks.


You obviously have not heard what Scott Linebrink has said about your family, then.

LITTLE NELL
08-16-2009, 05:41 PM
I think the whole "Sox lack a killer instinct" argument is lame, but games like this give it ammunition.
Well, something is missing.

Soxman219
08-16-2009, 05:41 PM
At least we're coming home.

...
08-16-2009, 05:41 PM
What a joke we can't sweep anyone.

There are no awards for the 'series sweep'.

ndgt10
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
Lol this team cant sweep anybody. Way to keep serving up beachballs Jenks. Just terrible giving that up to Mark Ellis.

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
There are no awards for the 'series sweep'.

A few more wins is a nice reward.

WSox597
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
It's disheartening, to say the least. But it does show the holes in the team that still need to be fixed.

I can't get excited, though. It's not good for the health, and it won't change a thing.

Regroup and take it to KC. Hopefully the Tiggers will lose to Seattle.

ms620
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
Well, something is missing.

A lot is missing on this team...an elite closer is among them

doublem23
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
Will we ever figure out how to not waste good pitching?

You mean like we did yesterday?

...
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
Hes not so much fat as he is just pure piece of **** sucky.

Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh:whiner:

Hartman
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
This team will not win the central in it's current form. Call me a dark cloud, whatever. It's been like this all year.

october23sp
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
I really don't care about not getting a sweep. We should have won the game so I'm pissed.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-16-2009, 05:43 PM
There are no awards for the 'series sweep'.

...The AL Central Championship could possibly be lost as a result of not capitalizing on sweep opportunities.

GoGoCrede
08-16-2009, 05:43 PM
Oh, well. Their manager getting tossed was the highlight of the game. And those throwback uniforms.

Red Barchetta
08-16-2009, 05:43 PM
This is another one of those "games" we will wish we won when we end the season in Detroit 1 game out of first place....:angry:

palehozenychicty
08-16-2009, 05:43 PM
We had our chances in two of those losses. At least they head back to the Chi.

beasly213
08-16-2009, 05:43 PM
Ah well. Typical effort today from the 2009 Chicago White Sox.

Can't win um all. But it would be nice to get a winning streak going. I'm thinking a 6-0 home stand? :gulp:

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 05:43 PM
A lot is missing on this team...an elite closer is among them


Wasn't a closing situation.

october23sp
08-16-2009, 05:43 PM
Oh, well. Their manager getting tossed was the highlight of the game. And those throwback uniforms.

Turned the momentem in their favor.

Lundind1
08-16-2009, 05:44 PM
Nothing to say. WSI will melt down about how we can't sweep, we suck with RISP, and that Bobby is fat again.

Commence.

There might be some serious creedence to all those arguments now. If it happens here and there, that is okay. This recurring theme is going to bury this team. If we had been .500 in those sweep games, we are a game and a half in the lead right now.

1989
08-16-2009, 05:44 PM
You would think Jenks could overpower a hitter like Ellis who had a robust 5 homers before today.

doublem23
08-16-2009, 05:44 PM
A lot is missing on this team...an elite closer is among them

6th in the AL in saves. What a bum!

JermaineDye05
08-16-2009, 05:44 PM
This loss is on two people, IMO. Nix and Ozzie.

People say Nix is the scapegoat, however he had two big mistakes in this game.

1) Striking out in the 7th with runs on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out.
2) Taking the glove off of Davis without getting the out call.

In a close game like that, you gotta keep your glove on the guy no matter what!! Even if the ump blew the call, Nix gave him the chance to do it by taking the mitt off of Davis. You have to make sure you get the out!! Big mental mistake.

I blame Ozzie too because he had a couple of questionable moves in the game.

1) Bunting Kotsay in the 7th. Kotsay was hitting the ball hard all day long and he basically took the bat out of his hands by having him bunt. Which then has you rely on a big strikeout guy to put the bat on the ball.

2) Bringing in Bobby in the 9th. It's a non-save situation and we know how closers usually falter then. What did Ozzie plan on doing if this game went into the 11th or 12th and the Sox got the lead? Then your closer has already been used and you're forced to rely on Thornton/Linebrink/Pena to close out the game.

I'm also questioning pitching to Hairston, but I'm guessing that was Dotel's decision there. Nomar had been hitting the ball well all day so you can't really falt him for that.

october23sp
08-16-2009, 05:44 PM
6th in the AL in saves. What a bum!

I don't understand the teal.

TommyGavinFloyd
08-16-2009, 05:45 PM
Nothing to say. WSI will melt down about how we can't sweep, we suck with RISP, and that Bobby is fat again.

Commence.

Ozzie is the one who originally said this. If fans want to run with it, why not?

GoGoCrede
08-16-2009, 05:45 PM
Turned the momentem in their favor.

Us getting that gift call for Nix should have shifted it toward us. It didn't. Sigh.

ms620
08-16-2009, 05:45 PM
Wasn't a closing situation.

Bobby's postion is considered "closer". Closers come in to games in situations like this. Bobby was brought in and failed. Rodney also failed in the same situation today, but that was b/c of 2 Raburn errors. Soria came in to this stuation, and pitched well, and KC won. Bobby pitched to 3 batters, all of them hit the ball solid.

...
08-16-2009, 05:45 PM
...The AL Central Championship could possibly be lost as a result of not capitalizing on sweep opportunities.

Or just opportunities to win close games in general. Whether or not that is in the final game of a series where we have one the first two or three is entirely irrelevant.

doublem23
08-16-2009, 05:45 PM
Turned the momentem in their favor.

He was out of the game for less than 1/2 an inning and after they had already tied the game at 2.

Got any other cliches? Did the A's give 110%?

Lundind1
08-16-2009, 05:45 PM
Wasn't a closing situation.

Closing or not, he and Dotel blew it big time, both times with 2 outs.

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 05:46 PM
Us getting that gift call for Nix should have shifted it toward us. It didn't. Sigh.


All those Nix calls were with 2 outs, so hardly enough time to shift much.

BadBobbyJenks
08-16-2009, 05:46 PM
What makes you frustrated? Not sweeping a team that you probably should have blown out today.

2nd and 3rd 1 out and no runs was the killer

ms620
08-16-2009, 05:46 PM
6th in the AL in saves. What a bum!

HAHAH you really think that the amount of saves is indicitive of how good a closer is?

doublem23
08-16-2009, 05:46 PM
I don't understand the teal.

Then I can't help you.

SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 05:46 PM
Ozzie is the one who originally said this. If fans want to run with it, why not?

Because according to some, he's only fat if he blows a game. He's big bad Bobby when he shuts one down. Its just ridiculous.

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 05:46 PM
This loss is on two people, IMO. Nix and Ozzie.

People say Nix is the scapegoat, however he had two big mistakes in this game.

1) Striking out in the 7th with runs on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out.
2) Taking the glove off of Davis without getting the out call.

In a close game like that, you gotta keep your glove on the guy no matter what!! Even if the ump blew the call, Nix gave him the chance to do it by taking the mitt off of Davis. You have to make sure you get the out!! Big mental mistake.

I blame Ozzie too because he had a couple of questionable moves in the game.

1) Bunting Kotsay in the 7th. Kotsay was hitting the ball hard all day long and he basically took the bat out of his hands by having him bunt. Which then has you rely on a big strikeout guy to put the bat on the ball.

2) Bringing in Bobby in the 9th. It's a non-save situation and we know how closers usually falter then. What did Ozzie plan on doing if this game went into the 11th or 12th and the Sox got the lead? Then your closer has already been used and you're forced to rely on Thornton/Linebrink/Pena to close out the game.

I'm also questioning pitching to Hairston, but I'm guessing that was Dotel's decision there. Nomar had been hitting the ball well all day so you can't really falt him for that.

So basically you are questioning every time something went wrong for the Sox? Okay, got it!

popilius
08-16-2009, 05:46 PM
I think the whole "Sox lack a killer instinct" argument is lame, but games like this give it ammunition.

You said it. What makes it even more frustrating is that if we DID have that ambigous 'killer instinct,' we'd be easily out in front of this division. Thank goodness the other teams in the AL central don't have it either.

Aarrgh.

:gulp:

october23sp
08-16-2009, 05:46 PM
He was out of the game for less than 1/2 an inning and after they had already tied the game at 2.

Got any other cliches? Did the A's give 110%?

Really? You're going to deny the fact that that got them amped up or at least didn't have to do anything with Pods striking out there?

SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 05:47 PM
What makes you frustrated? Not sweeping a team that you probably should have blown out today.

2nd and 3rd 1 out and no runs was the killer

The RISP is what kills me. We should have had a 4 run lead. At least.

It's Time
08-16-2009, 05:47 PM
I think the whole "Sox lack a killer instinct" argument is lame, but games like this give it ammunition.

I don't buy that argument, either. I just think this team is what it is, two games over .500 and basically, mediocre.

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 05:48 PM
Really? You're going to deny the fact that that got them amped up or at least didn't have to do anything with Pods striking out there?

I'm going to say Pods struck out because he didn't make contact - not because the reliever was inspired in an "Angels in the Outfield" type manner.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-16-2009, 05:48 PM
Bobby's postion is considered "closer". Closers come in to games in situations like this. Bobby was brought in and failed. Rodney also failed in the same situation today, but that was b/c of 2 Raburn errors. Soria came in to this stuation, and pitched well, and KC won. Bobby pitched to 3 batters, all of them hit the ball solid.

Generally, closers come into games when their team has the lead...not in a tie game. Jenks and Rodney did not have the lead when they came in.

Soria came into the game with the lead, and he closed it out for the win.

Funny how the one closer who was brought into the situation he is actually used for did well, while the others didn't. Coincidence?

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 05:48 PM
Really? You're going to deny the fact that that got them amped up or at least didn't have to do anything with Pods striking out there?


Yeah, Pods swung through that pitch because their manager got tossed. Come on.

TommyGavinFloyd
08-16-2009, 05:48 PM
Because according to some, he's only fat if he blows a game. He's big bad Bobby when he shuts one down. Its just ridiculous.

Yeah, but that "some" is Ozzie Guillen.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060323&content_id=1360629&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

3rd paragraph. If Ozzie can say it, why can't the fans?

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2009, 05:48 PM
Well, something is missing.

Although they still put up good numbers, twilight is approaching the core of Dye-Thome-Paulie.

CHISOXFAN13
08-16-2009, 05:49 PM
Generally, closers come into games when their team has the lead...not in a tie game. Jenks and Rodney did not have the lead when they came in.

Soria came into the game with the lead, and he closed it out for the win.

Funny how the one closer who was brought into the situation he is actually used for did well, while the others didn't. Coincidence?

Soria entered the game in a 2-2 tie in the ninth and pitched two innings.

doublem23
08-16-2009, 05:49 PM
Really? You're going to deny the fact that that got them amped up or at least didn't have to do anything with Pods striking out there?

Yeah, thinking they could even possibly be connected is ridiculous. You may as well blame Pods' strike out on a passing seagull, whose wing flaps made the ball break a nanometer more than it normally would have.

ramblinsoxfan11
08-16-2009, 05:49 PM
Ughhhh..... that was ugly

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 05:49 PM
Generally, closers come into games when their team has the lead...not in a tie game. Jenks and Rodney did not have the lead when they came in.

Soria came into the game with the lead, and he closed it out for the win.

Funny how the one closer who was brought into the situation he is actually used for did well, while the others didn't. Coincidence?

Pitchers should be able to pitch. I understand some "closers" use a close game to get amped up a little more and have more concentration - but I would say a tied game is a pretty close game.

ms620
08-16-2009, 05:49 PM
Generally, closers come into games when their team has the lead...not in a tie game. Jenks and Rodney did not have the lead when they came in.

Soria came into the game with the lead, and he closed it out for the win.

Funny how the one closer who was brought into the situation he is actually used for did well, while the others didn't. Coincidence?

No, Soria pitched 2 innings, came in to a tie game.

...
08-16-2009, 05:50 PM
He was out of the game for less than 1/2 an inning and after they had already tied the game at 2.

Got any other cliches? Did the A's give 110%?

Yeah, not kidding. Just as stupid as the 'series sweep' cliche. Just win the ****ing games. Who cares the order.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-16-2009, 05:50 PM
Soria entered the game in a 2-2 tie in the ninth and pitched two innings.

Never mind....I forgot it went 10.

My bad...I'll take foot out of mouth now.

Woofer
08-16-2009, 05:50 PM
Frustrating end to a frustrating road trip. In the grand scheme of things, the Sox going 3-3 on West coast road trip is not the worst, but losing this game today just hurts. This team just lacks something, you could see the momentum turn after failing to score in the late innings. We lose a prime opportunity to gain ground on Detroit, and time is starting to run out on the season. Also. Bobby is sucky.

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 05:51 PM
Pitchers should be able to pitch. I understand some "closers" use a close game to get amped up a little more and have more concentration - but I would say a tied game is a pretty close game.


Bobby hardly pitched badly anyway. you have to throw strikes, and bat found ball. It's not like he walked 2 guys and hit a batter.

kufram
08-16-2009, 05:51 PM
So we lost a good game. Didn't lose ground in the Central. Far more important.

...
08-16-2009, 05:51 PM
Really? You're going to deny the fact that that got them amped up or at least didn't have to do anything with Pods striking out there?

There are no 'facts' to deny. :thud:

SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 05:51 PM
Yeah, but that "some" is Ozzie Guillen.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060323&content_id=1360629&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

3rd paragraph. If Ozzie can say it, why can't the fans?

LMAO because that's from March of 2006. I didn't ever deny that Ozzie said it, but I also think its a cheap shot at Bobby if he has a bad game. Otherwise, call him fat when he nails one down, too.

Tragg
08-16-2009, 05:52 PM
0-0 game and the Oz bunts a leadoff double over to 3rd so that the notorious fly ball hitter, Pods, can hit him in with a sac fly.
Playing for a 1-0 win in the 5th. Nice.

It's one thing to bunt late, to bunt to get an insurance run. But this business of taking advantageous positions and giving away outs in the early part of the game is for the birds and will cost this team, just like the nonsense cost the team in 2007.

1989
08-16-2009, 05:53 PM
We lost a game we should have won. Toss this one into the "other 54, 42, whatever" Up 2-0 in the top of the 7th with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out against OAKLAND should result in an automatic victory, period. But not hitting with RISP, an unthankful call a 2nd, and a cheap home run result in a White Sox choke job today.

We have to start winning these games against teams under .500 teams in a necessity. Especially when we have a chance to pick up a game against the Tigers. We have to get as close to first as possible before the 15 game gauntlet. This is getting frustrating to watch.

#1swisher
08-16-2009, 05:53 PM
Bobby hardly pitched badly anyway. you have to throw strikes, and bat found ball. It's not like he walked 2 guys and hit a batter.

per Bill Melton "Bobby has 6 home runs this year. Not good, 2 outs it never should of happened"

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 05:53 PM
0-0 game and the Oz bunts a leadoff double over to 3rd so that the notorious fly ball hitter, Pods, can hit him in with a sac fly.
Playing for a 1-0 win in the 5th. Nice.

It's one thing to bunt late, to bunt to get an insurance run. But this business of taking advantageous positions and giving away outs in the early part of the game is for the birds and will cost this team, just like the nonsense cost the team in 2007.


when Ozzie doesn't bunt, people get all over him for that too.

Lundind1
08-16-2009, 05:53 PM
Also. Bobby is sucky.

Oh no, here it goes.

I have to agree. The last few months have been painful for Jenks....no pun intended on the Kidney Stone thing. Almost all the games that I have gone to it seems that Jenks has been getting hit really hard. The opposition is making solid contact. That is bothersome.

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 05:53 PM
0-0 game and the Oz bunts a leadoff double over to 3rd so that the notorious fly ball hitter, Pods, can hit him in with a sac fly.
Playing for a 1-0 win in the 5th. Nice.

It's one thing to bunt late, to bunt to get an insurance run. But this business of taking advantageous positions and giving away outs in the early part of the game is for the birds and will cost this team, just like the nonsense cost the team in 2007.

But if he doesn't do that then people will complain they are just waiting for the home run.

SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 05:53 PM
So we lost a good game. Didn't lose ground in the Central. Far more important.

There is no room for joy here! :tongue:

LoveYourSuit
08-16-2009, 05:54 PM
6th in the AL in saves. What a bum!


Come on Doublem.

Let's be a grown up and point out the fact that he is not an elite closer anymore. He's not a bum either. But he is not great.

He is what he is. An average ML reliever.

Lundind1
08-16-2009, 05:55 PM
So we lost a good game. Didn't lose ground in the Central. Far more important.

I think the frustration is coming from the fact that they really should have won this game, no question about that. That is why people are really PO'ed.

doublem23
08-16-2009, 05:55 PM
But if he doesn't do that then people will complain they are just waiting for the home run.

It's the usual double standard, Ozzie does something in a win, they don't mention it. Ozzie does something in a loss and it's THE ****ING APOCALYPSE. I BLIND MONKEY COULD MANAGE THIS TEAM BETTER.

EMachine10
08-16-2009, 05:55 PM
If you ask me, Thornton should have pitched the 9th without any doubt. Bobby is never the same in non-save situations, never mind the fact that if the game went into extras and we needed a closer, we used ours up in a tie game. And I couldn't care less about the righty-lefty matchup garbage. These are major league pitchers and their job is to get hitters out. Thornton can get right handed batters out, I've seen it done.

BadBobbyJenks
08-16-2009, 05:56 PM
Fabulous Freddy Garcia is returning to Chicago, REJOICE!

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2009, 05:56 PM
0-0 game and the Oz bunts a leadoff double over to 3rd so that the notorious fly ball hitter, Pods, can hit him in with a sac fly.
Playing for a 1-0 win in the 5th. Nice.

It's one thing to bunt late, to bunt to get an insurance run. But this business of taking advantageous positions and giving away outs in the early part of the game is for the birds and will cost this team, just like the nonsense cost the team in 2007.

Ozzie is not a very good in-game strategist. This is just the latest example.

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 05:56 PM
Come on Doublem.

Let's be a grown up and point out the fact that he is not an elite closer anymore. He's not a bum either. But he is not great.

He is what he is. An average ML reliever.


There is only one Rivera, and no other elites out there today, and Nathan ain't even close(yet).

1989
08-16-2009, 05:56 PM
This loss is on two people, IMO. Nix and Ozzie.

People say Nix is the scapegoat, however he had two big mistakes in this game.

1) Striking out in the 7th with runs on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out.
2) Taking the glove off of Davis without getting the out call.

In a close game like that, you gotta keep your glove on the guy no matter what!! Even if the ump blew the call, Nix gave him the chance to do it by taking the mitt off of Davis. You have to make sure you get the out!! Big mental mistake.

I blame Ozzie too because he had a couple of questionable moves in the game.

1) Bunting Kotsay in the 7th. Kotsay was hitting the ball hard all day long and he basically took the bat out of his hands by having him bunt. Which then has you rely on a big strikeout guy to put the bat on the ball.

2) Bringing in Bobby in the 9th. It's a non-save situation and we know how closers usually falter then. What did Ozzie plan on doing if this game went into the 11th or 12th and the Sox got the lead? Then your closer has already been used and you're forced to rely on Thornton/Linebrink/Pena to close out the game.

I'm also questioning pitching to Hairston, but I'm guessing that was Dotel's decision there. Nomar had been hitting the ball well all day so you can't really falt him for that.

Agree with all of this. I would add that Ozzie probably should have gone with Thornton instead of Dotel since he is more reliable.

Lundind1
08-16-2009, 05:56 PM
Fabulous Freddy Garcia is returning to Chicago, REJOICE!

Oh lord.

LoveYourSuit
08-16-2009, 05:57 PM
There is only one Rivera, and no other elites out there today, and Nathan ain't even close(yet).

Joe Nathan is an elite closer.

SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 05:57 PM
Fabulous Freddy Garcia is returning to Chicago, REJOICE!

Can Brett Anderson come off your CY Young tag line since we got him the second time around?

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 05:58 PM
Joe Nathan is an elite closer.


Plenty o room on his fingers with no ring there. Not elite.

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 05:58 PM
Agree with all of this. I would add that Ozzie probably should have gone with Thornton instead of Dotel since he is more reliable.

So basically, everything bad that happened for the Sox today you would have done the opposite? You better call Kenny. We'd be undefeated with you at the helm.

Marqhead
08-16-2009, 05:58 PM
Plenty o room on his fingers with no ring there. Not elite.

Just because the rest of his team sucks doesn't detract from his abilities. He's top 3.

The Immigrant
08-16-2009, 05:58 PM
Plenty o room on his fingers with no ring there. Not elite.

This post wins the thread. We can all go home now.

doublem23
08-16-2009, 05:59 PM
He is what he is. An average ML reliever.

The guy is struggling. IIRC, there were plenty of people that just knew that Paul Konerko was finished and was just an "average" 1B last year.

If you actually keep a big picture perspective, you'll notice there's not 10-15 guys you'd rather have over Jenks. Maybe he's not in the "elite" group of closers, but he's perfectly fine.

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 05:59 PM
Plenty o room on his fingers with no ring there. Not elite.

I don't think it's Joe Nathan's fault that the Twins haven't won a World Series during his time there.
He is surely an elite closer.

Dan H
08-16-2009, 05:59 PM
What should be remembered is that the Sox are only 2 games over .500 entering the third week of August. There is a reason for that.

TommyGavinFloyd
08-16-2009, 05:59 PM
LMAO because that's from March of 2006. I didn't ever deny that Ozzie said it, but I also think its a cheap shot at Bobby if he has a bad game. Otherwise, call him fat when he nails one down, too.

I know it is from March 2006. That illustrates my point even further. This isn't some clever little phrase that came up in the postgame thread a few weeks ago when he blew a save against Tampa Bay. This will be said about Jenks for his whole career, until he is in shape. Once Ozzie said it once, it's out there and not going away.

UChicagoHP
08-16-2009, 05:59 PM
Bobby Jenks is a fine relief pitcher, and it's a blessing that this average season may bring his contract demands down to earth a bit. I don't believe in paying closers big time money, but teams certainly do need a good relief core, and Jenks can be part of that core if he doesn't ask for $8+ million per, or whatever the top 5 closers are asking for nowadays...

Like a few others have said, this team just isn't that special(however with Peavy/healthy Quentin/shifting the IF defense in '10/etc) it certainly can be, and very, very soon! I'm still pumped for '09 though...they can do this..nice to see the Royals help the Sox today.

For KC Royals:gulp::gulp:

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 05:59 PM
So basically, everything bad that happened for the Sox today you would have done the opposite? You better call Kenny. We'd be undefeated with you at the helm.


If anything I didn't think Danks should have faced Davis in the 8th there. The only reason he did was because he had a lowish pitch count probably.

The Immigrant
08-16-2009, 06:00 PM
What should be remembered is that the Sox are only 2 games over .500 entering the third week of August. There is a reason for that.

This team simply refuses to rise above mediocrity.

kufram
08-16-2009, 06:00 PM
Either team "should" have won this game. It's just that Oakland did. I'm frustrated too but that is baseball. We won a game the other day we "should" have lost.

SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 06:01 PM
I know it is from March 2006. That illustrates my point even further. This isn't some clever little phrase that came up in the postgame thread a few weeks ago when he blew a save against Tampa Bay. This will be said about Jenks for his whole career, until he is in shape. Once Ozzie said it once, it's out there and not going away.

Its a cheap shot, imo. :shrug:

...
08-16-2009, 06:01 PM
Plenty o room on his fingers with no ring there. Not elite.

Haha. S...POTW?

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 06:01 PM
This team simply refuses to rise above mediocrity.


Spending a whole season with ony 3 decent starters can do that too.

It's Time
08-16-2009, 06:01 PM
What should be remembered is that the Sox are only 2 games over .500 entering the third week of August. There is a reason for that.

That's what I said a few pages back in this thread. After 118 games, you know exactly what type of team you have. This isn't a month or two into the season, this is nearly five months.

To quote Bill Parcells: "You are what you are".

doublem23
08-16-2009, 06:02 PM
I know it is from March 2006. That illustrates my point even further. This isn't some clever little phrase that came up in the postgame thread a few weeks ago when he blew a save against Tampa Bay. This will be said about Jenks for his whole career, until he is in shape. Once Ozzie said it once, it's out there and not going away.

It's a stupid little nickname that plenty of people don't appreciate or don't find funny. Don't quit your day job, Seinfeld.

The Immigrant
08-16-2009, 06:02 PM
Spending a whole season with ony 3 decent starters can do that too.

Actually, our pitching numbers are fine. It's the inconsistent offense that's keeping this team from going on a roll.

doublem23
08-16-2009, 06:04 PM
That's what I said a few pages back in this thread. After 118 games, you know exactly what type of team you have. This isn't a month or two into the season, this is nearly five months.

To quote Bill Parcells: "You are what you are".

Have you missed the incredible in-season transformation this team has had? You know why the Sox are just 2 games over .500?

Because Josh Fields, Brent Lillbridge, Dewayne Wise, Wilson Betemit, Brian Anderson, and Jerry Owens have a combined 702 plate appearances this season. Thankfully, all but 1 of them are for the most part gone.

Chipol
08-16-2009, 06:05 PM
Eight pages and nobody is on Pods for pulling up two feet from the wall and jumping for Hairston's fly in the 8th? The shot of Dotel after the flub said it all. A major league outfielder catches that one.

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 06:06 PM
Eight pages and nobody is on Pods for pulling up two feet from the wall and jumping for Hairston's fly in the 8th? The shot of Dotel after the flub said it all. A major league outfielder catches that one.

Watch it again and see where the ball hits. he was never going to get that high.

slavko
08-16-2009, 06:06 PM
I guess it was too much to ask to get another good performance from Bobby. Every ball that inning was hit solid.

Straight belt high fastballs vs. MLB hitters. Even mid-90's.

Bobby in a non-save situation. Recipe for ending badly. :mad:

Cop-out. No excuse.

JermaineDye05
08-16-2009, 06:07 PM
Eight pages and nobody is on Pods for pulling up two feet from the wall and jumping for Hairston's fly in the 8th? The shot of Dotel after the flub said it all. A major league outfielder catches that one.

Even Andre the Giant isn't making that catch.

It's Time
08-16-2009, 06:08 PM
Have you missed the incredible in-season transformation this team has had? You know why the Sox are just 2 games over .500?

Because Josh Fields, Brent Lillbridge, Dewayne Wise, Wilson Betemit, Brian Anderson, and Jerry Owens have a combined 702 plate appearances this season. Thankfully, all but 1 of them are for the most part gone.

Of course not, but calling it incredible is a bit of a stretch considering Jake hasn't pitched for a long, long time. I would say the Pods move has obviously paid off and the Rios move should be fine, but I think the "incredible transformation" part has clearly not been seen yet.

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 06:08 PM
Actually, our pitching numbers are fine. It's the inconsistent offense that's keeping this team from going on a roll.


Our front 3 are 10 games over .500 combined. Colon and Jose are 11 games under combined.

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 06:08 PM
Eight pages and nobody is on Pods for pulling up two feet from the wall and jumping for Hairston's fly in the 8th? The shot of Dotel after the flub said it all. A major league outfielder catches that one.

Nobody catches that ball except maybe Spiderman Ichiro. You are CRAZY if you think that is catchable. Not even close. Cowley's twitter said that it's nice to see Pods is "still scared of the wall," and if Cowley thought he could catch it, then, it's a completely uncatchable ball.

JB98
08-16-2009, 06:08 PM
Meh...3-3 road trip. Another mediocre week in a mediocre season. 15-15 since the All-Star break.

The Sox have 44 games left. You get the feeling they will win 22 of them.

I like all of KW's midseason acquisitions, but I have very little enthusiasm for the product I'm seeing on the field right now.

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 06:09 PM
Of course not, but calling it incredible is a bit of a stretch considering Jake hasn't pitched for a long, long time. I would say the Pods move has obviously paid off and the Rios move should be fine, but I think the "incredible transformation" part has clearly not been seen yet.


If you can think back to this offense pre-pods this year, it's horrifying how many games out they'd be if he never had his resurgence.

soltrain21
08-16-2009, 06:09 PM
Meh...3-3 road trip. Another mediocre week in a mediocre season. 15-15 since the All-Star break.

The Sox have 44 games left. You get the feeling they will win 22 of them.

I like all of KW's midseason acquisitions, but I have very little enthusiasm for the product I'm seeing on the field right now.

I still think they are building the team for next year and hoping that maybe they can sneak in this year.

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 06:10 PM
I still think they are building the team for next year and hoping that maybe they can sneak in this year.


Amen, the futre years look suprisingly good. If they sneak in the playoffs, they could make some noise, or could fizzle out.

SBSoxFan
08-16-2009, 06:11 PM
Generally, closers come into games when their team has the lead...not in a tie game. Jenks and Rodney did not have the lead when they came in.

Soria came into the game with the lead, and he closed it out for the win.

Funny how the one closer who was brought into the situation he is actually used for did well, while the others didn't. Coincidence?

And how did the A's closer do today when he pitched the top of the ninth with the game tied? :rolleyes:

JB98
08-16-2009, 06:11 PM
Have you missed the incredible in-season transformation this team has had? You know why the Sox are just 2 games over .500?

Because Josh Fields, Brent Lillbridge, Dewayne Wise, Wilson Betemit, Brian Anderson, and Jerry Owens have a combined 702 plate appearances this season. Thankfully, all but 1 of them are for the most part gone.

Sox are 15-15 since the All-Star break, 20-20 since July 1. I haven't seen an incredible transformation. I've seen an upgrade in talent, but no incredible transformation.

whitesoxfan
08-16-2009, 06:13 PM
I'm as big of a Jenks fan as you'll find but whatever happened to his strikeout ability? It sucks to see him not being able to blow away guys like he used to.

I won't complain too much because we did take 2 of 3 in Oakland and we didn't lose any ground on the Tigers. Still, it would've been gigantic to come back home only a game and a half up and nearly 5 up on the Twinkies. Oh well. Please take care of business against bad teams at home and everything will sort itself out.

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 06:13 PM
Sox are 15-15 since the All-Star break, 20-20 since July 1. I haven't seen an incredible transformation. I've seen an upgrade in talent, but no incredible transformation.


Ask the Yankees about that after we clobbered them .

doublem23
08-16-2009, 06:13 PM
Sox are 15-15 since the All-Star break, 20-20 since July 1. I haven't seen an incredible transformation. I've seen an upgrade in talent, but no incredible transformation.

Well, you're also kind of a

http://www.publishersweekly.com/articles/blog/880000288/20081212/debbie_downer.jpg

It's Time
08-16-2009, 06:13 PM
I still think they are building the team for next year and hoping that maybe they can sneak in this year.

I agree with this. I'm just not seeing a championship team here this year. First and most importantly, this team is terrible defensively. There are so many plays that this team doesn't make that don't even show as errors that illustrates how bad it is. Heck, look at Pods in the 9th today.

If you can't catch the baseball, you are not winning any titles. That I know for sure. This team can't catch the ball.

Woofer
08-16-2009, 06:14 PM
Our front 3 are 10 games over .500 combined. Colon and Jose are 11 games under combined.

And that equates out to under .500. This has been a big problem all year, bringing in Peavy might help in Sept., but we came into this year short 2 real starting pitchers.

JermaineDye05
08-16-2009, 06:14 PM
Ask the Yankees about that after we clobbered them .

Ask the Indians about that after they clobbered us.

This team has been downright mediocre this year.

JB98
08-16-2009, 06:14 PM
I still think they are building the team for next year and hoping that maybe they can sneak in this year.

The good thing is Peavy and Rios are under contract for years to come, so this isn't an all-the-eggs-in-one-basket situation. Thank goodness for that, because I'm not particularly fond of this basket.

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 06:16 PM
And that equates out to under .500. This has been a big problem all year, bringing in Peavy might help in Sept., but we came into this year short 2 real starting pitchers.


I was responding to someone who said having only 3 solid starters wasn't a factor in the lack of success this year.

JB98
08-16-2009, 06:16 PM
Ask the Yankees about that after we clobbered them .

Maybe we should hang a banner at U.S. Cellular Field. It will say "took three out of four from the Yankees in late July."

JB98
08-16-2009, 06:18 PM
Well, you're also kind of a

http://www.publishersweekly.com/articles/blog/880000288/20081212/debbie_downer.jpg

Yeah, me and my silly facts. I didn't realize calling this a .500 team was such a buzzkill. I thought it was a statement of the obvious.

LoveYourSuit
08-16-2009, 06:18 PM
The guy is struggling. IIRC, there were plenty of people that just knew that Paul Konerko was finished and was just an "average" 1B last year.

If you actually keep a big picture perspective, you'll notice there's not 10-15 guys you'd rather have over Jenks. Maybe he's not in the "elite" group of closers, but he's perfectly fine.


Not saying the guy is done, washed up, etc.

He is having a very bad year. Let's call a spade a spade. Can he rebound, sure. But he is getting there at the time where his contract situation is going to be getting very expensive for the Sox to consider a long term plan with him.

That's my "big picture prespective."

Patrick134
08-16-2009, 06:19 PM
Yeah, me and my silly facts. I didn't realize calling this a .500 team was such a buzzkill. I thought it was a statement of the obvious.


The thing is, find anyone on this board calling the sox champs. the vibe has been that we could win the central, and not do much else this year.

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-16-2009, 06:20 PM
This team is as average as it gets. I have no doubts about winning the AL Central this year, but we are going to need some of that late-season magic that seems to frustrate everyone and elude us until the very end. Just stay close to The Kitties and I think we can do this.

JB98
08-16-2009, 06:22 PM
The thing is, find anyone on this board calling the sox champs. the vibe has been that we could win the central, and not do much else this year.

jabrch. He argued that the Sox are legitimate World Series contenders in Friday's gamethread. I disagreed with him, and he told me that it was just my frustration talking.

I haven't liked this team much all year. I'm glad that KW has made some changes, but I'm still not enthusiastic about how the team is playing.

LoveYourSuit
08-16-2009, 06:23 PM
Eight pages and nobody is on Pods for pulling up two feet from the wall and jumping for Hairston's fly in the 8th? The shot of Dotel after the flub said it all. A major league outfielder catches that one.


Well Pods won the CSN poll as to something sort of like 'Kenny's best move this year." :rolleyes:


Beat the Peavy, Rios, & Beckham (call-up) moves by Kenny.

I hope these polls are no indicaiton of the IQ of our fan base. I would be emberassed.

LoveYourSuit
08-16-2009, 06:25 PM
jabrch. He argued that the Sox are legitimate World Series contenders in Friday's gamethread. I disagreed with him, and he told me that it was just my frustration talking.

I haven't liked this team much all year. I'm glad that KW has made some changes, but I'm still not enthusiastic about how the team is playing.


I will be honest and say that I like this team for a short play off series 10X more than last year's team just because of the potential 4 starters we can throw up there.

But anyway, both teams are very medicore IMO.

LITTLE NELL
08-16-2009, 06:28 PM
2 last place teams coming in, need 5 out of 6 before the brutal road trip.

SoxFan1979
08-16-2009, 06:29 PM
nothing to say. Wsi will melt down about how we can't sweep, we suck with risp, and that bobby is fat again.

Commence.

:d::d:

Lip Man 1
08-16-2009, 06:32 PM
Nell:

It's been last place garbage teams that have been giving the Sox fits all season...Kansas City, Baltimore, Cleveland and Oakland.

This club simply can't sweep a team and has now lost 11 games where they held an opponent to three runs or less. You simply have to win those games.

And the defense? Brutal.

Lip

DickAllen72
08-16-2009, 06:35 PM
I will be honest and say that I like this team for a short play off series 10X more than last year's team just because of the potential 4 starters we can throw up there.

But anyway, both teams are very medicore IMO.
Defense is their Achilles. The poor defense not only loses games they should win but also taxes the pitchers excessively.

SCCWS
08-16-2009, 06:36 PM
Well Pods won the CSN poll as to something sort of like 'Kenny's best move this year." :rolleyes:


Beat the Peavy, Rios, & Beckham (call-up) moves by Kenny.

I hope these polls are no indicaiton of the IQ of our fan base. I would be emberassed.

emberassed .................... Well we have a good idea of your IQ.

Noneck
08-16-2009, 06:37 PM
Well Pods won the CSN poll as to something sort of like 'Kenny's best move this year." :rolleyes:


Beat the Peavy, Rios, & Beckham (call-up) moves by Kenny.

I hope these polls are no indicaiton of the IQ of
our fan base. I would be emberassed.

Beckham was a great draft choice, but the move to bring him up was one maybe of desperation at the time. And looking back , It was a no brainer considering who they had instead.

The great part of the Rios move was being in the right place in the standings and convincing ownership that you have to spend money to make money. Now we have to see how Rios pays off for THIS year.

The Peavy move "could be" the best move but we wont know forsure and remember the question was for THIS year.

The Pods move was the best move period.

LoveYourSuit
08-16-2009, 06:40 PM
Defense is their Achilles. The poor defense not only loses games they should win but also taxes the pitchers excessively.


I keep saying to myself that the defense has no where to go but up from here. But I am left dissapointed every passing game. Maybe they will by some miracle stop kicking the ball around by the time we get to Ocotber.

It's a a shame to piss away solid starting pitching.

BadBobbyJenks
08-16-2009, 06:40 PM
Can Brett Anderson come off your CY Young tag line since we got him the second time around?

I forgot about that, I haven't updated in ages, but yeah he should come off.

LoveYourSuit
08-16-2009, 06:42 PM
Beckham was a great draft choice, but the move to bring him up was one maybe of desperation at the time. And looking back , It was a no brainer considering who they had instead.

The great part of the Rios move was being in the right place in the standings and convincing ownership that you have to spend money to make money. Now we have to see how Rios pays off for THIS year.

The Peavy move "could be" the best move but we wont know forsure and remember the question was for THIS year.

The Pods move was the best move period.


The Peavy move is the biggest move in the history of the White Sox while I have been a fan of this club since '83.

JB98
08-16-2009, 06:42 PM
I forgot about that, I haven't updated in ages, but yeah he should come off.

You'll have to add Trevor Cahill to the list when you erase Anderson. Cahill was getting lit up by the league until today.

DickAllen72
08-16-2009, 06:42 PM
It's a a shame to piss away solid starting pitching.
I heard that!

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2009, 06:42 PM
Dye is hitting .184 since the break. Paulie is hitting .190 since the break. That's the problem with the offense.

Noneck
08-16-2009, 06:46 PM
The Peavy move is the biggest move in the history of the White Sox while I have been a fan of this club since '83.

Ok now I see where you are coming from. I took the question to be "Which move was the best for the Sox this year" not "Which move this year was best for the Sox."

JB98
08-16-2009, 06:47 PM
Dye is hitting .184 since the break. Paulie is hitting .190 since the break. That's the problem with the offense.

And they're not producing any game-changing XBHs either. I don't care about low batting average from those guys, if they are producing runs.

Dye has had a few good swings and a few hits the last couple days, but he's still not driving the ball. The Sox need Jermaine (and Paulie) to start knocking them off the wall and over the wall on this upcoming homestand.

LoveYourSuit
08-16-2009, 06:48 PM
I would go:

1) Peavy
2) Beckham
3) Pods
4) Rios

Goodman6
08-16-2009, 06:49 PM
Nell:

It's been last place garbage teams that have been giving the Sox fits all season...Kansas City, Baltimore, Cleveland and Oakland.

This club simply can't sweep a team and has now lost 11 games where they held an opponent to three runs or less. You simply have to win those games.

And the defense? Brutal.

Lip

Yes the defense as been brutal, but the lack of hitting (even making contact) with runners in scoring position has been killing this team all year. I am not picking on any particular player, it is every player on the team. Today was just another example. Runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out in the 7th, Nix strikes out on 3 pitches. Runners on 1st and 2nd with 1 out in the 8th, Rios strikes out, then AJ strikes out. Runner on 2nd with 2 outs in the 9th, Pods strikes out after being ahead in the count 3 - 1. We got to at least hit the ball to have a chance to score in those situations. We have all seen this all year. Again, it doesn't matter who is up to bat. It is almost like these guys just don't handle the pressure well or something in those situations. I can't explain it as they are all professional hitters.

BadBobbyJenks
08-16-2009, 06:50 PM
You'll have to add Trevor Cahill to the list when you erase Anderson. Cahill was getting lit up by the league until today.

And I almost forgot about Doug Fister!

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-16-2009, 06:50 PM
Anyone else agree with me that the game was lost when Nix simply couldn't keep the tag on and instead looked at the 2B ump like an ass, as the baserunner overslid right below him?

BadBobbyJenks
08-16-2009, 06:51 PM
Dye is hitting .184 since the break. Paulie is hitting .190 since the break. That's the problem with the offense.

Yep, the middle of the order has really been a letdown in August.

Lip Man 1
08-16-2009, 06:55 PM
Goodman:

Now you understand why Ozzie is quoted practically every off season with the same remark by the mainstream media..."I'm tired of the strike outs and the solo home runs."

I absolutely think part of it is mental but I also think that there simply aren't a lot of line drive, gap hitters who are going to hit .280 - .300 - .320 on a regular basis.

They still have a bunch of slow footed sluggers. Today's failures weren't done by them but the Sox philosophy is swing hard and hope to hit the ball. When you need to shorten your swing or go the other way to get a guy in that philosophy just doesn't work very well.

Like JB has said that's partially why they are a mediocre team despite whatever "big name" people they bring in.

Little things win a lot of games...catching the ball, getting guys over into scoring position and getting them home without having to rely on the home run.

Like Kenny would say, "it is what it is" with this team.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2009, 06:55 PM
Yep, the middle of the order has really been a letdown in August.

Dye and Paulie have given us some great memories. But they are being paid the big bucks to produce right now, and right now they are failing.

gobears1987
08-16-2009, 06:57 PM
Bobby gained weight.

Seriously, if you're going to give Bobby crap, what about Nix not getting the guy when he slid off the bag or Dotel leaving a slider right over the heart of the plate. You can't put all of this on Bobby.

Noneck
08-16-2009, 06:58 PM
I would go:

1) Peavy
2) Beckham
3) Pods
4) Rios

Well if we consider the drafting of Beckham as a move. I will go.

Win: Beckham

Deadheat for The Place: Peavy, Rios (Hope is high but I will have to see what they actually do. Downside, If they bust, that old man wont go into the piggy bank for the rest of his life)

Show: Pods, A great race but don't expect him to show this form again.

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2009, 06:59 PM
They still have a bunch of slow footed sluggers.

That's what happens when you build an offense around a core of Dye-Thome-Paulie-AJ. I'd like to see them replace Dye and Thome this winter, and Paulie next winter, with faster, more consistent line drive hitters with extra-base power. My pipe dream would be to replace Dye with Crawford.

Thatguyoverthere
08-16-2009, 07:01 PM
In the first half, it seemed like all of our losses were us getting blown out, but now in the second half it seems like all of our losses are close games where we failed to execute and blew several opportunities. Since the break, I can think of at least 6 or 7 losses where the Sox "should have won".

If this team had even average defense, they'd have a comfortable lead in the division. Sure the offense stunk, but Pods and Nix made defensive miscues that cost them two runs. Never have I seen a team struggle so much to just catch the damn ball.

gobears1987
08-16-2009, 07:02 PM
Us getting that gift call for Nix should have shifted it toward us. It didn't. Sigh.
Yeah, Nix would've over slid the bag anyways on 2nd and was out at 1st so we had two gift calls there.

SOXfnNlansing
08-16-2009, 07:04 PM
they had their chances but blew it.

gobears1987
08-16-2009, 07:07 PM
0-0 game and the Oz bunts a leadoff double over to 3rd so that the notorious fly ball hitter, Pods, can hit him in with a sac fly.
Playing for a 1-0 win in the 5th. Nice.

It's one thing to bunt late, to bunt to get an insurance run. But this business of taking advantageous positions and giving away outs in the early part of the game is for the birds and will cost this team, just like the nonsense cost the team in 2007.
Yes I get it, you hate Ozzie.:rolleyes:

http://chroniclesofconception.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/hr02885_brokenrecord.jpg

Goodman6
08-16-2009, 07:19 PM
Never have I seen a team struggle so much to just catch the damn ball.

You must be too young to have seen the 1977 White Sox, with Alan (40-errors) Bannister at SS, Jorge (stone glove) Orta at 2B, Ralph (poor read) Garr in LF and Richie (slow footed) Zisk in RF. Every fly ball, every ground ball and even infield pop-ups were adventures. Jimmy Piersall was the color announcer that year and he used Ralph Garr as an example to kids watching the game as to how NOT to catch a fly ball. Many of Bannister's errors at SS were on throws because he was playing with an injured arm. That team could hit the ball with the best of them as they became known as the "Southside Hitmen", but they couldn't catch the ball worth a darn. Yes, the 2009 Sox are a poor defensive team but, in 52-years of watching Sox games, I've never seen a worse Sox defensive team than that team in 1977. By the way, 1978 wasn't much better.

CubsfansareDRUNK
08-16-2009, 07:31 PM
I literally said before today's game: If we don't light this guy up I'll be very upset. 5-12, 5.06 ERA, and something like a .280 batting average against him. The fact that we can't get the job done against pitchers like him is disgusting.

Lip Man 1
08-16-2009, 07:32 PM
Goodman:

Which is why in 1977 even with exceptional hitting they only went 90-72...the thing about this year's club though which ever the 1977 team didn't do often is the fact they are making a ton of mental mistakes.

Balls dropping between outfielders because neither guy knows who wants it, confusion on covering 2nd base on catcher's throws, poor positioning and so forth.

These guys actually look like they are getting worse to me, not better as the season moves on and that's frightening.

Lip

Lip Man 1
08-16-2009, 07:33 PM
Cubs:

And happening more and more.

By the way... now Thome's out Monday with a bad heel. With all due respect he needs to be the first of the hitters let go this off season. He can't stay healthy for long periods of time anymore. Contreras of course has to be the first pitcher sent packing.

Lip

thomas35forever
08-16-2009, 08:11 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, but I'll say Jenks is still the man I trust to close games. That home run today was a fluke. However, I will also say keeping pace is not going to cut it much longer. We need to start taking advantage of Detroit losses and soon or else we're not going however.

soxyess
08-16-2009, 08:12 PM
Next year Dye, Thome, Konerko, Dotel, and Jenks will be gone. Jenks is slowly losing the domination that he once had as a closer. When Mark Ellis can go yard on you thats not a good sign. Mark my words these guys will be gone next year, and we will move toward a more athletic, defensive, speed intensive lineup. With our starting rotation it becoes imperative that we field a good defense.

Goodman6
08-16-2009, 08:16 PM
Goodman:

Which is why in 1977 even with exceptional hitting they only went 90-72...the thing about this year's club though which ever the 1977 team didn't do often is the fact they are making a ton of mental mistakes.

Balls dropping between outfielders because neither guy knows who wants it, confusion on covering 2nd base on catcher's throws, poor positioning and so forth.

These guys actually look like they are getting worse to me, not better as the season moves on and that's frightening.

Lip

Lip:

You make some good points.

I guess it is safe to say that 1977 and 2009 Sox teams will never be remembered as being good defensive teams. In 1977, there were balls that fell between Garr and Chet Lemon or Lemon and Zisk and times when Bannister or Orta failed to cover 2nd base with a runner attempting to steal. Perhaps the 2009 has had more mental errors as you suggest, but the 1977 team wasn't too far benind in the mental errors catagory.

I don't think we disagree on this subject.

Brian26
08-16-2009, 08:16 PM
Next year Dye, Thome, Konerko, Dotel, and Jenks will be gone.

LOL. You're nuts.

UChicagoHP
08-16-2009, 08:21 PM
Next year Dye, Thome, Konerko, Dotel, and Jenks will be gone. Jenks is slowly losing the domination that he once had as a closer. When Mark Ellis can go yard on you thats not a good sign. Mark my words these guys will be gone next year, and we will move toward a more athletic, defensive, speed intensive lineup. With our starting rotation it becoes imperative that we field a good defense.


I think it is highly unlikely all 5 will be gone. Unless Flowers is moved to 1B next spring and tears the cover off the ball, Konerko is still the 1B for this team, not to mention his no-trade clause. It may be tough to move him. I agree with you re: Thome....I think Dye sticks around as a DH/RF...Jenks may not ask for the moon at this point, and keeping him around isn't a bad thing at $4-5 million per...Dotel is probably gone due to his contract demands....just my opinion

Dick Allen
08-16-2009, 08:25 PM
This habit of losing very winnable against bad teams has convinced me that this team will not be playing in the post-season. Games like this one and the 14 inning game against Seattle are perfect examples of this annoying tendancy. The tough part of the schedule is coming up real soon, but they'll probably manage to struggle against KC and Baltimore before they even get that far.

Noneck
08-16-2009, 08:26 PM
Next year Dye, Thome, Konerko, Dotel, and Jenks will be gone.

I have thought the same but I am monetarily paranoid.

I have even thought about how they can get rid of Burls, without being lynched.

ms620
08-16-2009, 08:27 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, but I'll say Jenks is still the man I trust to close games. That home run today was a fluke. However, I will also say keeping pace is not going to cut it much longer. We need to start taking advantage of Detroit losses and soon or else we're not going however.

Why was it a fluke? All 3 balls that inning were hit hard. Jenks has not shown the ability to miss bats consistantly this year. So how could that possibly be a fluke?

russ99
08-16-2009, 08:30 PM
Anytime Rios wants to start hitting the ball would be fine by me...

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-16-2009, 08:30 PM
Next year Dye, Thome, Konerko, Dotel, and Jenks will be gone. Jenks is slowly losing the domination that he once had as a closer. When Mark Ellis can go yard on you thats not a good sign. Mark my words these guys will be gone next year, and we will move toward a more athletic, defensive, speed intensive lineup. With our starting rotation it becoes imperative that we field a good defense.

So why not get rid of Nix, Alexei and Pods while we're on this defenseive upgrade?

The Sox are not a bad defensive team. They make way too many mental errors, like mentioned before.

SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 08:36 PM
So why not get rid of Nix, Alexei and Pods while we're on this defenseive upgrade?

The Sox are not a bad defensive team. They make way too many mental errors, like mentioned before.

I'm sorry. I have to actually agree that the Sox are bad defensively. Whether the defensive lapses are physical or mental, they all matter.

Today, however, was not on the defense. Pods couldn't have caught that ball even if he had a pogo stick, it was 12 feet over his head. Today wasn't even ultimately about Bobby's Pitch. It was that we failed SO many times to bring guys in from second and third. Period.

thomas35forever
08-16-2009, 08:37 PM
Why was it a fluke? All 3 balls that inning were hit hard. Jenks has not shown the ability to miss bats consistantly this year. So how could that possibly be a fluke?
Okay I confess. I didn't watch the replay. I only heard it on the radio.

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-16-2009, 08:39 PM
I'm sorry. I have to actually agree that the Sox are bad defensively. Whether the defensive lapses are physical or mental, they all matter.

Today, however, was not on the defense. Pods couldn't have caught that ball even if he had a pogo stick, it was 12 feet over his head. Today wasn't even ultimately about Bobby's Pitch. It was that we failed SO many times to bring guys in from second and third. Period.

Thing is, how do you improve a player's mental mistakes on defense? I don't see how getting rid of the guys we have and then spending (more) money on other personal is going to help.

ilsox7
08-16-2009, 08:41 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, but I'll say Jenks is still the man I trust to close games. That home run today was a fluke. However, I will also say keeping pace is not going to cut it much longer. We need to start taking advantage of Detroit losses and soon or else we're not going however.

Actually, it was not a fluke today. The first two guys scalded the ball against him, but luckily found some leather. The 3rd time was the charm. Jenks was bad today.

EDIT: Someone beat me to it.

SoxGirl4Life
08-16-2009, 08:55 PM
Thing is, how do you improve a player's mental mistakes on defense? I don't see how getting rid of the guys we have and then spending (more) money on other personal is going to help.

Oh, I agree with you there. Getting rid of them isn't the answer. Don't know how they fix the mental mistakes. But they are most definitely hurting us. Not today, but plenty of times this season.

JermaineDye05
08-16-2009, 08:58 PM
Anytime Rios wants to start hitting the ball would be fine by me...

Wow, one hitless game and already people are on his ass. Rios has gotten a hit in all the games except for today. He drove in a run yesterday and almost drove one in the last game in Seattle if it weren't for Ichiro's arm. Rios hit the ball pretty hard this series but got robbed by umps and defense. If I remember correctly, he did have a 3-run HR taken away from him in the first game in Oak by the 3rd base umpire.

Lip Man 1
08-16-2009, 09:07 PM
Soxyes:

I agree that when you have a staff of pitchers who by and large pitch to contact, a significantly improved defense than the one the Sox have is a must.

That being said as long as Kenny remains and continues to publicly talk about having to have a lot of long ball hitters because of U.S. Cellular Field you are not going to see the radical approach that you suggest.

In all honesty I can't see it.

Thome, Contreras, Dotel yes (and it's a mistake to let Dotel go in my opinion) but I don't see A.J. leaving yet and I hope they can extend Dye and make him the DH.

Lip

Lillian
08-16-2009, 09:17 PM
I have to confess that I didn't read all of the posts. Are many of you wondering when Thornton will replace Jenks as the closer?
Everyone hit the ball hard against Bobby in his 2/3 of an inning of work.
I'd prefer to have a strike out pitcher, when the game is on the line.
It is getting pretty tiresome watching Jenks struggle to get outs. It has happened far too often.
I suspect that most of us who watch all of the games always feel uneasy when he is called to pitch in a crucial situation.

JermaineDye05
08-16-2009, 09:20 PM
I have to confess that I didn't read all of the posts. Are many of you wondering when Thornton will replace Jenks as the closer?
Everyone hit the ball hard against Bobby in his 2/3 of an inning of work.
I'd prefer to have a strike out pitcher, when the game is on the line.
It is getting pretty tiresome watching Jenks struggle to get outs. It has happened far too often.
I suspect that most of us who watch all of the games always feel uneasy when he is called to pitch in a crucial situation.

Closing isn't as easy as you think. Thornton tried it a couple times and blew one and just barely got the other. Bobby didn't struggle the last time he was out there in a save situation. I consider today's loss one of those times that shows how closers aren't good in non-save situations. I still don't know what Ozzie was thinking there. Who closes if Bobby gets us into extras?

Noneck
08-16-2009, 09:22 PM
Are many of you wondering when Thornton will replace Jenks as the closer?


I did read the posts and this has not been mentioned yet so I will. Many are upset about putting Jenks in a non save situation. Well maybe this is a prelude to Thornton becoming the closer. That's why Jenks was put in this situation and maybe Thornton was in the wings for the close. Just a thought.

gobears1987
08-16-2009, 09:22 PM
Closing isn't as easy as you think. Thornton tried it a couple times and blew one and just barely got the other. Bobby didn't struggle the last time he was out there in a save situation. I consider today's loss one of those times that shows how closers aren't good in non-save situations. I still don't know what Ozzie was thinking there. Who closes if Bobby gets us into extras?Thornton was used to close a game when Bobby had his kidney stones. Guess what? He gave up a homerun to Nick ****ing Swisher. Thornton is one of the premier set-up men in baseball, but he isn't a closer. Some of the best relief pitchers in baseball can never be closers as there is a mental aspect that few realize.

Konerko05
08-16-2009, 09:23 PM
Nobody catches that ball except maybe Spiderman Ichiro. You are CRAZY if you think that is catchable. Not even close. Cowley's twitter said that it's nice to see Pods is "still scared of the wall," and if Cowley thought he could catch it, then, it's a completely uncatchable ball.

I can't say for sure if the ball was catchable because Podsednik was scared of the wall.

I've commented on it before. Podsednik is a horrible outfielder, but when he is near a wall he turns completely useless.

Podsednik had time to get all the way back to the wall and attempt the catch. Instead he pulled up three feet short of the wall and tried to make the catch there. Did he not go back all the way because the ball was "uncatchable"? That doesn't make any sense. It was a horrible attempt and he should be criticized for it.

gobears1987
08-16-2009, 09:24 PM
Next year Dye, Thome, Konerko, Dotel, and Jenks will be gone.
No this isn't an overreaction.

Whitesoxfan23
08-16-2009, 09:24 PM
Scott Podsednik is one of the worst outfielders, I have seen in a Sox uniform in quite some time.

gobears1987
08-16-2009, 09:26 PM
Scott Podsednik is one of the worst outfielders, I have seen in a Sox uniform in quite some time.
He could be a great outfielder and he still doesn't make that catch in the 8th. The blame is on Nix as the runner was off the bag and he failed to tag him. Well Dotel also deserves some of it for hanging a slider.

I just love how people have turned Pods and Jenks into their whipping boys. Calm down, please. Yes Pods is a below average outfielder, but that isn't what made the difference today. Crappy situational hitting is what did it.

Whitesoxfan23
08-16-2009, 09:28 PM
He could be a great outfielder and he still doesn't make that catch in the 8th. The blame is on Nix as the runner was off the bag and he failed to tag him. Well Dotel also deserves some of it for hanging a slider.

I just love how people have turned Pods and Jenks into their whipping boys. Calm down, please. Yes Pods is a below average outfielder, but that isn't what made the difference today. Crappy situational hitting is what did it.



I wasn't referring to just today, I was talking about in general. I cringe everytime I see him go for a ball. Oh, and I agree, this isn't on Pods, it's on our terrible situational hitting.

JB98
08-16-2009, 09:36 PM
Why was it a fluke? All 3 balls that inning were hit hard. Jenks has not shown the ability to miss bats consistantly this year. So how could that possibly be a fluke?

Jenks actually has a much better K rate than he had last season. But his results have been terrible the last month.

We're down to just two reliable relievers at this point -- Thornton and Carrasco.

All the others have been hit-or-miss (at best) since the All-Star break.

gobears1987
08-16-2009, 09:42 PM
I wasn't referring to just today, I was talking about in general. I cringe everytime I see him go for a ball. Oh, and I agree, this isn't on Pods, it's on our terrible situational hitting.
Fair enough. I'll easily acknowledge that Pods is a below average outfielder.

Ron Karkovice
08-16-2009, 09:48 PM
Fair enough. I'll easily acknowledge that Pods is a below average outfielder.

This is the weird thing because he is so quick... Why cant he take correct routes to balls?

Didn't Carlos Lee have like 0 errors in LF his last year with the Sox? There is no reason C Lee should be a better LF than Pods.

Hitmen77
08-16-2009, 09:50 PM
This team will not win the central in it's current form. Call me a dark cloud, whatever. It's been like this all year.

...The AL Central Championship could possibly be lost as a result of not capitalizing on sweep opportunities.

Agreed. If the Sox keep playing as is, they will finish 2nd.

They're not playing like a playoff-bound team. They can't close the gap with Detroit.

Their level of play definitely needs to change soon if they're going to win the Central.

The one encouraging thing is another good outing by Danks after some previously shaky starts.

slavko
08-16-2009, 09:56 PM
This is the weird thing because he is so quick... Why cant he take correct routes to balls?

Didn't Carlos Lee have like 0 errors in LF his last year with the Sox? There is no reason C Lee should be a better LF than Pods.

And yet...C Lee could go back to the fence and make a catch. Pods is helpless in that situation. Neither can come in on a short ball.

All this hand wringing about a non-save situation is BS, but it refers to a situation where you are so far ahead the closer has no incentive. Is there some reason to think he had no incentive today when the game was on the line? What some of you Jenks apologists are doing is misapplying a "rule" that is BS anyway. Your boy has no excuses today.

gobears1987
08-16-2009, 09:58 PM
This is the weird thing because he is so quick... Why cant he take correct routes to balls?

Didn't Carlos Lee have like 0 errors in LF his last year with the Sox? There is no reason C Lee should be a better LF than Pods.
I don't think errors are the way to judge any fielder. By that measure Royce Clayton was a gold glover at short.



I honestly am probably not the best person to comment on why it is that Pods has trouble with reads as I myself have no depth perception and thus can't tell where a ball is going in flight whether I'm watching a game or playing with friends.

1989
08-16-2009, 09:58 PM
2 last place teams coming in, need 5 out of 6 before the brutal road trip.

Then we better sweep the O's and win the first two from KC, cause there is no way in hell we are winning that Contreras vs Greinke matchup. I think 4-2 would be a success. And this team just doesn't like to sweep teams for some reason so sweeping the O's is a stretch.

Ron Karkovice
08-16-2009, 09:59 PM
And yet...C Lee could go back to the fence and make a catch. Pods is helpless in that situation. Neither can come in on a short ball.

All this hand wringing about a non-save situation is BS, but it refers to a situation where you are so far ahead the closer has no incentive. Is there some reason to think he had no incentive today when the game was on the line? What some of you Jenks apologists are doing is misapplying a "rule" that is BS anyway. Your boy has no excuses today.

I'd feel more comfortable with Koch right now. Teal police? I think not!

Lillian
08-16-2009, 10:00 PM
This thing will likely come down to how good the bullpen is, and having Jenks as the closer doesn't give me much confidence. Linebrink makes me feel even more uneasy.

So far this is .500 team. Not very encouraging. What a shame. It looks so good on paper, but then the games aren't played on paper.

1989
08-16-2009, 10:00 PM
You'll have to add Trevor Cahill to the list when you erase Anderson. Cahill was getting lit up by the league until today.

but, but, but... #25 ranked prospect!! He's good I swear!

JB98
08-16-2009, 10:02 PM
I'd feel more comfortable with Koch right now. Teal police? I think not!

I think you've forgotten just how bad Koch was.

Koch would use walks and wild pitches to blow the game, a la MacDougal. That's just not acceptable for a MLB pitcher. It's one thing to give up hits and get beat. It's another thing to beat yourself with utter stupidity.

Ron Karkovice
08-16-2009, 10:02 PM
I think you've forgotten just how bad Koch was.

Koch would use walks and wild pitches to blow the game, a la MacDougal. That's just not acceptable for a MLB pitcher. It's one thing to give up hits and get beat. It's another thing to beat yourself with utter stupidity.

They both have similar facial hair though. Don't you EVER forget that.

1989
08-16-2009, 10:03 PM
In the first half, it seemed like all of our losses were us getting blown out, but now in the second half it seems like all of our losses are close games where we failed to execute and blew several opportunities. Since the break, I can think of at least 6 or 7 losses where the Sox "should have won".

If this team had even average defense, they'd have a comfortable lead in the division. Sure the offense stunk, but Pods and Nix made defensive miscues that cost them two runs. Never have I seen a team struggle so much to just catch the damn ball.

That's it? It's more like 10 for me.

Ron Karkovice
08-16-2009, 10:04 PM
That's it? It's more like 10 for me.

A ton of teams can say this though.

jabrch
08-16-2009, 10:12 PM
Saw that **** coming. I officially hate Bobby Jenks. Only player on the current roster I hate. ****ing sucks.

It seems like every single day you crap your own pants. You are a disgraceful excuse for a fan.

slavko
08-16-2009, 10:13 PM
I think you've forgotten just how bad Koch was.

Koch would use walks and wild pitches to blow the game, a la MacDougal. That's just not acceptable for a MLB pitcher. It's one thing to give up hits and get beat. It's another thing to beat yourself with utter stupidity.

Karko's just having fun with us, he knows how bad Koch was. The thing is that MacDougal couldn't control his crazy good stuff. Koch couldn't control pitches that didn't break an inch.

JB98
08-16-2009, 10:19 PM
Karko's just having fun with us, he knows how bad Koch was. The thing is that MacDougal couldn't control his crazy good stuff. Koch couldn't control pitches that didn't break an inch.


In any case, Jenks > Koch.

I still think Jenks will get things figured out. The results the last month have been unacceptable, but I'd continue to go to him. The Sox certainly won't win a thing without an effective Jenks.

1989
08-16-2009, 10:20 PM
A ton of teams can say this though.

Thats true. I was up in Minnesota for all three games in late July, and I can tell you that we should have won all of them. Between bad defense in games 1 and 2, warning track power throughout the whole series, them making amazing plays against us as always, Thome being out the whole series, Kotsay lining one right at Cuddyer, and them finding every bounce and STILL only winning by 1 or two each time, we should have one every game there.

1989
08-16-2009, 10:23 PM
In any case, Jenks > Koch.

I still think Jenks will get things figured out. The results the last month have been unacceptable, but I'd continue to go to him. The Sox certainly won't win a thing without an effective Jenks.

Jenks needs to go to that curveball more. He is getting beat far too often with the fastball. Even if he can't control it, he needs to establish the fact that he will throw it in any count to at least keep the hitters from sitting on that fastball. For instance, in today's game Jenks was throwing all fastballs and you could tell Ellis knew what was coming as he started his swing as soon as the pitch left Bobby's hand. That is why he pulled it and almost yanked it foul, he guessed and was right.

JB98
08-16-2009, 10:29 PM
Jenks needs to go to that curveball more. He is getting beat far too often with the fastball. Even if he can't control it, he needs to establish the fact that he will throw it in any count to at least keep the hitters from sitting on that fastball. For instance, in today's game Jenks was throwing all fastballs and you could tell Ellis knew what was coming as he started his swing as soon as the pitch left Bobby's hand. That is why he pulled it and almost yanked it foul, he guessed and was right.

Jenks hasn't had a good breaking ball all year -- that's been a big issue this season. He's been throwing his slider more than his deuce. When he first joined the Sox his deuce was devastating. No more. He seems to have lost confidence in that pitch.

All kinds of ink and bandwith has been wasted on discussion about Bobby's velocity. All that is a bunch of bull, IMO. His missing curve ball remains his problem.

ode to veeck
08-16-2009, 10:50 PM
I'd feel more comfortable with Koch right now. Teal police? I think not!

Save this crap for the game threads LOL.

Koch was terrrrrrrrriiiiibbbbbbblllleeee!

hawkjt
08-16-2009, 10:55 PM
It is kind of funny cuz after friday, someone insisted that Bobby's problem is that he is not throwing the high fastball and when he brings it down it gets hammered. To me, the pitch that Ellis hit was a high fastball, and with two outs I would say if you throw low and outside there is no way you get beat by Ellis,who must weigh about 160lbs.

When things are going bad, it does not seem to matter...Ellis just kills us, altho right now he is killing everyone.

I swear I look at that A's lineup and the only guys that can hurt you at all are davis,Hairston and ellis...and we never seem to avoid them.

Rios is 3 for his first 20 as a Sox player...seems like he is trying too hard to hit it a mile to impress his new teammates. I think he is a line drive hitter but he has a huge uppercut working right now.

Ron Karkovice
08-16-2009, 11:19 PM
Save this crap for the game threads LOL.

Koch was terrrrrrrrriiiiibbbbbbblllleeee!


I know! Just playing...:wink:

Tragg
08-17-2009, 12:36 AM
Yes I get it, you hate Ozzie.



Once again, a non-substantive reply from the GIGs.

Defend the bunt. Let's hear it.

He's got a good pitching staff, with a poor defensive team, and he thinks he can win games with 1 or 2 runs. That's twice on this roadtrip that we got beat by that philosophy of giving away outs early in the game only to lose by 1.

Tragg
08-17-2009, 12:58 AM
Although they still put up good numbers, twilight is approaching the core of Dye-Thome-Paulie.
Paulie will be replaced likely internally; if we can get a younger productive outfielder, I'd let Dye walk, sentimentality aside.
I might bring Thome back for 1/2 price.

kufram
08-17-2009, 02:18 AM
Oh, I agree with you there. Getting rid of them isn't the answer. Don't know how they fix the mental mistakes. But they are most definitely hurting us. Not today, but plenty of times this season.
I think the only way to fix the mental mistakes is to let a young, inexperienced infield mature over, say, at least one season. If it is true that one learns by one's mistakes then our guys are putting a lot in the bank!

Truthfully, I've thought all season that there are only so many errors a team can make and at some point the good plays would come along to balance the equation. That really needs to happen NOW.

By the way, Pods bad play on the fly ball wasn't in not catching it. It was poor positioning to get the ball in quicker. Still would have been a double though. Nix was showing an ump that was going to make an out call the ball. The ump changed his mind and made Nix look bad

illinifan1368
08-17-2009, 09:17 AM
I still can't get over Pods not making that catch. If he doesn't leap and just takes a step back instead, he catches the ball without jumping. I love Pods but he is hard to watch in the field.

Rohan
08-17-2009, 09:35 AM
I still can't get over Pods not making that catch. If he doesn't leap and just takes a step back instead, he catches the ball without jumping. I love Pods but he is hard to watch in the field.

If his bat wasn't so valuable his ass would be benched. I think the putting him in the DH spot is something that'll be played around with in the future.

Anyone on our team besides him makes that catch. Even an infielder.

Red Barchetta
08-17-2009, 11:48 AM
I didn't get to see the game, only the highlights (lowlights) last night on WGN. The one positive is that I really liked the throwback uniforms. I would love to see the SOX wear white socks like those. Pods' triple highlight is really cool watching him run the bases with the white socks.

I wish MLB would have a stricter uniform code similar to the NFL.

GoSox2K3
08-17-2009, 12:01 PM
I forgot about that, I haven't updated in ages, but yeah he should come off.

You'll have to add Trevor Cahill to the list when you erase Anderson. Cahill was getting lit up by the league until today.

And I almost forgot about Doug Fister!

That must be a list of mythical pitchers. Haven't you learned yet from WSI? The Sox struggles against mediocre pitching is a complete myth!

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2009, 12:09 PM
Sucks that we lost, but I don't wanna read any more Jenks bashing. The guy has been great for us since he arrived here midseason in 2005. Before Buehrle set the record for most consecutive retired, let's not forget that it was Jenks who had the record before.

Besides, Bobby didn't blow a lead. He had none to work with yesterday, and that Mark Ellis homerun barely scraped over the wall so it wasn't like it was some big monster shot.

Sorry to rant but it's just my .02

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2009, 12:11 PM
Rios is 3 for his first 20 as a Sox player...seems like he is trying too hard to hit it a mile to impress his new teammates. I think he is a line drive hitter but he has a huge uppercut working right now.

I totally agree with you on this. I've been watching him the last few games and it seems like he's pressing at the plate. He needs to relax and realize that he is not here to be the "savior". He just needs to relax and do his job. Same can also be said for TCQ.

voodoochile
08-17-2009, 12:15 PM
Sorry to rant but it's just my .02

How much is 2/100ths of a cent worth these days anyway? :wink:

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2009, 12:17 PM
How much is 2/100ths of a cent worth these days anyway? :wink:

Now I know why I got fired from the bank. :redface:

downstairs
08-17-2009, 12:46 PM
It looks like its going to be a "who wants to lose the division more" kinda season.

Ron Karkovice
08-17-2009, 01:03 PM
It is kind of funny cuz after friday, someone insisted that Bobby's problem is that he is not throwing the high fastball and when he brings it down it gets hammered. To me, the pitch that Ellis hit was a high fastball, and with two outs I would say if you throw low and outside there is no way you get beat by Ellis,who must weigh about 160lbs.

When things are going bad, it does not seem to matter...Ellis just kills us, altho right now he is killing everyone.

I swear I look at that A's lineup and the only guys that can hurt you at all are davis,Hairston and ellis...and we never seem to avoid them.

Rios is 3 for his first 20 as a Sox player...seems like he is trying too hard to hit it a mile to impress his new teammates. I think he is a line drive hitter but he has a huge uppercut working right now.

Badbobbyjenks and I have both decided that we are POSITIVE that he just isnt trying at all...

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2009, 01:04 PM
It looks like its going to be a "who wants to lose the division more" kinda season.

I've compared the AL Central to the "Ugliest Girl In The World" pageant. It's a competition no one wants to win.

hawkjt
08-17-2009, 01:36 PM
I still can't get over Pods not making that catch. If he doesn't leap and just takes a step back instead, he catches the ball without jumping. I love Pods but he is hard to watch in the field.


Again, I could have swore that ball hit at least ten feet up on the wall.
Did you see a conclusive slo-mo replay that showed it not getting to the wall?

FielderJones
08-17-2009, 01:38 PM
I've compared the AL Central to the "Ugliest Girl In The World" pageant. It's a competition no one wants to win.

Something similar from Carl (http://smellslikemascot.blogspot.com/2009/08/does-anybody-want-to-dance-with-girl.html).

Ron Karkovice
08-17-2009, 01:41 PM
I've compared the AL Central to the "Ugliest Girl In The World" pageant. It's a competition no one wants to win.

Each team in the AL central has a great personality.

Crestani
08-17-2009, 01:41 PM
This is the weird thing because he is so quick... Why cant he take correct routes to balls?

Didn't Carlos Lee have like 0 errors in LF his last year with the Sox? There is no reason C Lee should be a better LF than Pods.


As evidenced by the terrible play in Minnesota on Mauer's two out ground rule double that should have been caught! That play changed the entire complextion of that game as well.

However, memory severs that Carlos Lee was lazy and did not atempt to go after many balls into the gap.

WisSoxFan
08-17-2009, 01:43 PM
Again, I could have swore that ball hit at least ten feet up on the wall.
Did you see a conclusive slo-mo replay that showed it not getting to the wall?

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200908166139073&c_id=oak

I've watched this video about a dozen times and it sure looks to me like the ball hits a little above the "r" in Chevron. The more I watch it, the more I think it's a routine play for 95% of major league OFs. If Pods just runs back to the wall and waits for it he catches it shoulder high. At least that's what I think I see.

Ron Karkovice
08-17-2009, 01:44 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200908166139073&c_id=oak

I've watched this video about a dozen times and it sure looks to me like the ball hits a little above the "r" in Chevron. The more I watch it, the more I think it's a routine play for 95% of major league OFs. If Pods just runs back to the wall and waits for it he catches it shoulder high. At least that's what I think I see.

You are absolutely right. By no means is it an easy play, but its a play that professional outfielders need to make. I hope Pods works on warning track flies in the next few pregames...

FielderJones
08-17-2009, 01:47 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200908166139073&c_id=oak

I've watched this video about a dozen times and it sure looks to me like the ball hits a little above the "r" in Chevron. The more I watch it, the more I think it's a routine play for 95% of major league OFs. If Pods just runs back to the wall and waits for it he catches it shoulder high. At least that's what I think I see.

I can't find the ball when it hits the wall, even with hitting the pause button in rapid succession. It would be easier if the MLB video app had a frame by frame advance key, so we could analyze it like the Zapruder film.

BadBobbyJenks
08-17-2009, 02:11 PM
Badbobbyjenks and I have both decided that we are POSITIVE that he just isnt trying at all...

Exactly, he does not have one ounce of try in his body...

TDog
08-17-2009, 02:33 PM
Bobby in a non-save situation. Recipe for ending badly. :mad:

That wasn't true in Seattle a couple of outings earlier. (Unless you blame Jenks for the run scored off of Pena). In fact it isn't true most of the time.

I've been to seven games in Oakland since moving to Northern California -- all Sox games, of course. (There's no way I would go to see an A's game if the Sox weren't playing.) The Sox have won four and lost three. Sundy's game broke a four-game winning streak in for the Sox in Oakland, and I have been to all of those games. The three losses I've suffered came in the bottom of the ninth. In the years I was living along the Colorado River in Arizona between 1979 and 1999, I probably went to about 50 games in Anaheim. The Sox won an overwhelming majority of those games. Among the rare losses, I don't think any came on the last pitch of the game.

Of course, the Sox should have won Sunday. They really played very well. The infield defense looked especially slick. They played pretty well throughout the series. The only situation where players were called on to bunt where they failed was Ramirez (he was successful on Saturday) who failed on a bunt attempt, which was taken off before he got an infield hit.

Of course, after Kotsay bunted the runners to second and third with a two-run lead, Nix, who had a sacrifice fly in the same situation Saturday, struck out and Podsednik, who tripled in the first run with a runner on third and one out before scoring the second run on a sacrifice fly, ended the inning.

Podsednik was responsible for the two runs, but the game came down to him. Twice he failed to bring runners home in scoring position with two outs. The balls the A's hit to tie the game and win the game were hit to left, although I won't suggest Podsednik should have caught them.

The Sox should have scored more runs. They should have taken advantage of Aaron Cunningham's error (Dye had been breaking for second on the 3-2 pitch to Konerko, and I believe he was looking to try to double him up, taking his eye off the ball momentarily, but Cunningham had a lousy defensive game, misplaying a Kotsay line drive into a hit earlier.) Wertz went 3-2 on every hitter that inning (except perhaps Dye who I think singled on a 2-2 pitch) but he struck out Beckham, Rios and Pierzynski, and got Konerko to hit a lazy fly ball to right.

Danks, of course, had trouble in the seventh. his pitch count was in the 70s, but pitch count is usually irrelevant with Danks, who seems to lose it after seven. The A's hit him hard, and he was lucky he only gave up the sacrifice fly that the Sox didn't get from Nix in the top of the inning.

The key to the game was the top of the eighth. Danks retired Kennedy. He should have retired Davis. The blooper looked like it should have been caught. Then it looked like they had Davis at second. It is impossible to tell a play at second from a seat at the ballpark, especially if you're sitting in the end zone in Oakland, but it Davis is out, Danks probably goes eight with a 2-1 lead and Jenks comes in for the save in the ninth.

The crowd got ugly in the top of the ninth after Nix was called safe after the A's got Ramirez and Kotsay on what looked like two hits of the bat. (Kotsay's line drive was hit farther than Ellis', but it wasn't as close to the line.) When Nix was called safe on the stolen base and Geren was ejected, I thought people were going to start throwing things onto the field. I thought Podsednik was going to walk to bring up Dye, who was hitting well, and Bailey didn't look like he had much.

When Ellis hit the home run, I bounded out of my seat and beat the crowd to the train.

It was a tough loss, but every time the Sox seemed to have something going with nobody out, they were bunting, playing for one run. they got two runs the first time they did that but came up empty otherwise. I believe I've made my position clear on the value of the sacrifice bunt. It is nice that the White Sox now seem capable of bunting runners over. I just wish they wouldn't do it so often.