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Harry Potter
08-15-2009, 02:06 PM
Just a heads up to season ticket holders that the postseason ticket invoices are now posted.

It appears that the ticket and parking passes are the same as last year so thankfully they decided to freeze at least that.

Payment due by September 2nd.

Playoffs? http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:S0uKYgl7Gy3SfM:http://img.youtube.com/vi/Qwq7BYOnDrM/0.jpg (http://img.youtube.com/vi/Qwq7BYOnDrM/0.jpg)

chisoxfanatic
08-15-2009, 02:27 PM
September 2nd??? Are you kidding me??? :o:

Harry Potter
08-15-2009, 02:33 PM
September 2nd??? Are you kidding me??? :o:

My initial thoughts exactly but it was the same deadline as last year.

chisoxfan83
08-15-2009, 02:57 PM
i love my season tickets and love that the sox are in contention but i have to admit i do dread this...i will find a way to pay.

Chez
08-15-2009, 05:57 PM
Time to sell more blood.

soxfanreggie
08-15-2009, 07:37 PM
Having people pay for these tickets now is a great business decision (as long as enough fans do it), as they get the revenue, can put it in the bank and earn interest off of it. They still get to keep most of it if we don't make it as it goes towards next year's tickets.

I can't say if I had season tickets that I would be in favor of this, but speaking just from a business decision it only benefits the Sox. I guess the good part is that at least we're in playoff contention.

thegooch
08-15-2009, 07:41 PM
Having people pay for these tickets now is a great business decision (as long as enough fans do it), as they get the revenue, can put it in the bank and earn interest off of it. They still get to keep most of it if we don't make it as it goes towards next year's tickets.

I can't say if I had season tickets that I would be in favor of this, but speaking just from a business decision it only benefits the Sox.

I disagree. Not even the team on the Northside keeps season ticket holder money interest free. To me, it's just an underhanded way of making money off of your most loyal fans.

Viva Medias B's
08-15-2009, 07:57 PM
I assume they'll be mailing these invoices as well.

Harry Potter
08-15-2009, 08:14 PM
I assume they'll be mailing these invoices as well.

Yes, my paper invoice arrived with today's mail.

chisoxfanatic
08-15-2009, 08:31 PM
I disagree. Not even the team on the Northside keeps season ticket holder money interest free. To me, it's just an underhanded way of making money off of your most loyal fans.
And, even worse, they NEVER tell us how much the season tickets are going to cost next year before asking us if we are going to renew. That should be illegal! One should never have to commit to something before knowing how much it is going to cost.

Harry Potter
08-15-2009, 08:37 PM
And, even worse, they NEVER tell us how much the season tickets are going to cost next year before asking us if we are going to renew. That should be illegal! One should never have to commit to something before knowing how much it is going to cost.

It's the White Sox so just add 10% to last year's bill - which will soften the blow when you see any increase in these economic times.

Like I said before, I'm hoping the Sox follow the lead of the Bulls/Blackhawks and freeze ST prices for 2010 (since they obviously missed the boat from 2008 to 2009).

That being said, I won't hold my breath that this happens.

tacosalbarojas
08-15-2009, 09:03 PM
It's the White Sox so just add 10% to last year's bill - which will soften the blow when you see any increase in these economic times.

Like I said before, I'm hoping the Sox follow the lead of the Bulls/Blackhawks and freeze ST prices for 2010 (since they obviously missed the boat from 2008 to 2009).

That being said, I won't hold my breath that this happens.With Peavy and Rios on board? No way will there be a freeze in ticket prices.

Jerko
08-15-2009, 09:17 PM
Just make sure your paper invoice and online account have the same balance. IIRC I had 2 different balances last year because I had just sold a ticket online after my paper invoice was already sent to me. Looks like they might have fixed that but I'd double check anyway.

Brian26
08-15-2009, 09:17 PM
With Peavy and Rios on board? No way will there be a freeze in ticket prices.

Given the state of the economy, they should damned well consider it.

Harry Potter
08-15-2009, 09:20 PM
Just make sure your paper invoice and online account have the same balance. IIRC I had 2 different balances last year because I had just sold a ticket online after my paper invoice was already sent to me. Looks like they might have fixed that but I'd double check anyway.

Good point - my paper invoice reflected all StubHub/Whitesox.com sales through 8/10. So if you sold any tickets this week there probably will be a difference.

SOXfnNlansing
08-15-2009, 10:06 PM
I'm going to pay it, but I'm not renewing for next season. I want to get the unused balance returned asap (unless we have to use all the tickets:bandance:).

soxfan21
08-15-2009, 11:12 PM
I'll be putting my money down tomorrow, but I too hope that they freeze prices for next year. I don't really see that happening though seeing how we have Peavy and Rios' contacts to worry about. Not that I'm complaining especially if they help to bring us another championship.

tacosalbarojas
08-15-2009, 11:17 PM
Given the state of the economy, they should damned well consider it.
I'd like to hope so, but you have to be realistic. And the worse the economy is the greater chance sponsorships decrease, and the greater chance we have to help pay the freight to a greater degree.

DumpJerry
08-16-2009, 12:28 AM
And, even worse, they NEVER tell us how much the season tickets are going to cost next year before asking us if we are going to renew. That should be illegal! One should never have to commit to something before knowing how much it is going to cost.

There is no reason to make it illegal. You have the choice to not renew or get a refund for unused post season tickets and risk losing your seat(s) the next year. I have no problem with this because whether or not I buy playoff tickets is not dependent on my decision to buy the next year's package. I can buy postseason tickets and not commit to next year or I can decided to buy next year, but that makes no difference on the postseason decision.

When it comes to regular season tickets, they have payment plans, so it's not as "rough" as the postseason where you have to come up with the whole amount now.

It's the White Sox so just add 10% to last year's bill - which will soften the blow when you see any increase in these economic times..
Why 10%? They did not increase by 10% this year. The invoices for 2009 went up 2008 9% not because they increased the prices by 9% (they did not), but because three Regular priced games were replaced with three Premier games and the city raised the entertainment tax by 1%.

DumpJerry
08-16-2009, 12:31 AM
I'd like to hope so, but you have to be realistic. And the worse the economy is the greater chance sponsorships decrease, and the greater chance we have to help pay the freight to a greater degree.
There are more reliable ways to raise revenue that by increasing ticket prices. The key is to get our bodies inside the park. Once inside, there are many opportunities to get our money. The more often we're inside the park, the more often they will make money off us. Therefore, raising tickets prices (and thus reducing the number of wallets in the park) is counterproductive to increasing revenue.

If you buy a souvenir sized pop or a beer at every game, you're giving them more pure profit that they would make on your single ticket sale after expenses.

Harry Potter
08-16-2009, 02:12 AM
because three Regular priced games were replaced with three Premier games

Ah yes, the smart decision to go with Premier pricing for the weekday Dodgers series in June. And don't forget that extra Yankees premier game, giving us 4 more Premier games in 2009 then in 2008.

All I'm saying is that I'm hoping the Sox follow the Bulls/Blackhawks and keep the increase to a minimum (if they can't flat out free the ticket prices). But hell, there was even an increase after the dismal 2007 campaign.

I was just shocked that the playoff ticket prices remained the same (granted those are set by MLB)

dickallen15
08-16-2009, 08:50 AM
There is no reason to make it illegal. You have the choice to not renew or get a refund for unused post season tickets and risk losing your seat(s) the next year. I have no problem with this because whether or not I buy playoff tickets is not dependent on my decision to buy the next year's package. I can buy postseason tickets and not commit to next year or I can decided to buy next year, but that makes no difference on the postseason decision.

.
But your choices are to make a commitment right now to renew next season or if you want a refund, give up your seats. There's no guarantee any of the playoff tickets you are buying will even be used, so you pay a good portion of your bill 7 months in advance, what if then in the offseason the Sox dump all their players and increase ticket prices 25%? You would be stuck. I think since they haven't said ticket prices will be frozen, like all other teams say when it comes time to re-new, they will be going up again.

DumpJerry
08-16-2009, 09:28 AM
Ah yes, the smart decision to go with Premier pricing for the weekday Dodgers series in June. And don't forget that extra Yankees premier game, giving us 4 more Premier games in 2009 then in 2008.

All I'm saying is that I'm hoping the Sox follow the Bulls/Blackhawks and keep the increase to a minimum (if they can't flat out free the ticket prices). But hell, there was even an increase after the dismal 2007 campaign.

I was just shocked that the playoff ticket prices remained the same (granted those are set by MLB)

All companies keep their price increases at a minimum in order to survive in any economic conditions. You increase prices to the point which will not cost you an unacceptable number of lost customers, that is the "Minimum."

The Cubs are the team that have made hosing the STHs a science. They have jacked up prices by double digits for a few years now.

If the NL could only win the All Star Game......then one World Series game would be removed from the invoice.

dickallen15
08-16-2009, 10:08 AM
The Cubs are the team that have made hosing the STHs a science. They have jacked up prices by double digits for a few years now.

If the NL could only win the All Star Game......then one World Series game would be removed from the invoice.

If this is the case, the White Sox were excellent students last season, and since they haven't said anything about freezing prices, something other teams do well in advance, apparently having a team barely .500 will let them do it again.

The Cubs may screw over STH, but they sell all of their tickets. The White Sox don't and then we have to hear the .50 vs $1 thing every year. Which business model would you prefer?

Martinigirl
08-16-2009, 10:53 AM
Is that earlier than last year? It seems a lot earlier to me.

voodoochile
08-16-2009, 10:57 AM
Ah yes, the smart decision to go with Premier pricing for the weekday Dodgers series in June. And don't forget that extra Yankees premier game, giving us 4 more Premier games in 2009 then in 2008.

All I'm saying is that I'm hoping the Sox follow the Bulls/Blackhawks and keep the increase to a minimum (if they can't flat out free the ticket prices). But hell, there was even an increase after the dismal 2007 campaign.

I was just shocked that the playoff ticket prices remained the same (granted those are set by MLB)

Yankees were obviously a good decision, they admitted the mistake with the Dodgers, can't people get over it already?

Premier pricing is here to stay and every team has some form of it.

voodoochile
08-16-2009, 10:58 AM
If this is the case, the White Sox were excellent students last season, and since they haven't said anything about freezing prices, something other teams do well in advance, apparently having a team barely .500 will let them do it again.

The Cubs may screw over STH, but they sell all of their tickets. The White Sox don't and then we have to hear the .50 vs $1 thing every year. Which business model would you prefer?

The one that landed Peavy and Rios at the deadline and afterwords.

DumpJerry
08-16-2009, 11:06 AM
Is that earlier than last year? It seems a lot earlier to me.
It seems to be slightly later than last year (if you're talking about the postseason invoice).

dickallen15
08-16-2009, 11:27 AM
It seems to be slightly later than last year (if you're talking about the postseason invoice).

Don't the teams have to get permission from the league before they send invoices?

DumpJerry
08-16-2009, 11:33 AM
Don't the teams have to get permission from the league before they send invoices?
Yes.


It would be pretty funny if the Cub fans lurkers reading this thread are thinking "Hey, where is my invoice??":D:

thegooch
08-16-2009, 12:05 PM
The Cubs are the team that have made hosing the STHs a science. They have jacked up prices by double digits for a few years now.


This brings me back to my original point. Even the Cubs return unused playoff ticket money. They don't force any of their season ticket holders to give them an interest free loan or risk losing their seats.

I find it ludicrous that the Sox pull this garbage on their ST holders.

Harry Potter
08-16-2009, 01:01 PM
Is that earlier than last year? It seems a lot earlier to me.

It seems to be slightly later than last year (if you're talking about the postseason invoice).

The payment deadline both this year and last has been September 2nd and actually, we have a couple extra days to pay it off this year, as the 2008 invoices were posted on 8/19.

It's Dankerific
08-16-2009, 06:15 PM
I, for one, will wait until the last moment to make my decision. Lets see how they're playing. Kenny's comments of win (and probably show up to the game) and we can keep the good players for 2010 is a bit scary to me.

JB98
08-16-2009, 06:40 PM
I probably won't make a decision on playoff tickets until Sept. 1. That's two and a half weeks from now. The team needs to show me something between now and then.

Things are a lot tougher financially now than they were three or four years ago. I love the White Sox, but I have to be careful, especially with my employer in bankruptcy.

It's Dankerific
08-16-2009, 06:45 PM
I probably won't make a decision on playoff tickets until Sept. 1. That's two and a half weeks from now. The team needs to show me something between now and then.

Things are a lot tougher financially now than they were three or four years ago. I love the White Sox, but I have to be careful, especially with my employer in bankruptcy.

I agree, and for the Sox to keep their refund policy in place seems misguided. They may lose me just based on the principle.

JB98
08-16-2009, 06:50 PM
I agree, and for the Sox to keep their refund policy in place seems misguided. They may lose me just based on the principle.

Understandable. I might be willing to swallow hard and fork over the money, though, if the Sox play well the next couple weeks. There are still 15 games between now and the payment deadline.

If I see a 7-8 record, screw it. I'm out. Give me a reason to get excited and I'll buy.

It's Dankerific
08-16-2009, 07:07 PM
Understandable. I might be willing to swallow hard and fork over the money, though, if the Sox play well the next couple weeks. There are still 15 games between now and the payment deadline.

If I see a 7-8 record, screw it. I'm out. Give me a reason to get excited and I'll buy.

Being able to have my money the month of October and part of November if the Sox don't have playoff games is a big deal. I may feel comfortable with work, the economy, whatever and keep my relationship. But, if the final decision is Sept 2, then they better have built a lead.

#1swisher
08-16-2009, 07:44 PM
I disagree. Not even the team on the Northside keeps season ticket holder money interest free. To me, it's just an underhanded way of making money off of your most loyal fans.


Mr. Reinsdorf worked for the IRS early in his career.:smile: $

soxfanreggie
08-16-2009, 11:15 PM
I wonder how many season ticket holders complaining it would take to get them to change the policy. If 500 or 1,000 said they would quit if it wasn't amended, I wonder what they would do.

chisoxfanatic
08-17-2009, 01:09 AM
I probably won't make a decision on playoff tickets until Sept. 1. That's two and a half weeks from now. The team needs to show me something between now and then.
I too will wait until the last minute to make my decision on playoff tickets.

I HATE that we have to do this through Ticket****er, so we get a wonderful $5 "handling fee" per ticket! So, I have a $25 extra charge for "handling."
I wonder how many season ticket holders complaining it would take to get them to change the policy. If 500 or 1,000 said they would quit if it wasn't amended, I wonder what they would do.
I know I am definitely writing my ticket rep a note stating that I am not renewing, and the policy was one of the reasons.

I would suggest anyone else here who aren't renewing with the policy being one of the reasons to send a note your ticket rep's way.

soxfanreggie
08-17-2009, 08:38 AM
Heather,

Who knows, if there are a lot that do it, it could be a sod roots movement (don't we all love the Sodfather) that could lead to some change.

voodoochile
08-17-2009, 08:50 AM
Heather,

Who knows, if there are a lot that do it, it could be a sod roots movement (don't we all love the Sodfather) that could lead to some change.

Anyone who stops going to any establishment because of a policy they don't like should definitely tell management why. You just quit without saying why you only hurt yourself.

It may well be that this is one of the policies that was fine last year but is catching grief this year due to the economy and the Sox didn't consider the ramifications.

In fact, you're best bet is to contact your ticket rep or Brooks or anyone who will listen before you simply don't pay. Maybe they extend the deadline and reconsider the policy. Don't wait to tell them you don't like it and cannot afford it. The season ticket plan you save may be your own...

soxfanreggie
08-17-2009, 09:57 AM
That's the one thing about living far away from Chicago, they don't get as much of my money from tickets (more from merchandise, licensing due to purchasing media plans, etc.). However, I hope that others who do get season tickets that this would be a hardship for, do get some relief.

I echo your sentiments Voodoo to tell them now!

areilly
08-17-2009, 11:23 AM
Just a heads up to season ticket holders that the postseason ticket invoices are now posted.

Thanks for posting this. I needed a good laugh.

jabrch
08-17-2009, 11:44 AM
In fact, you're best bet is to contact your ticket rep or Brooks or anyone who will listen before you simply don't pay. Maybe they extend the deadline and reconsider the policy. Don't wait to tell them you don't like it and cannot afford it. The season ticket plan you save may be your own...

Great post Voo. Let me say for a fact that I know these "policies" have some wiggle room. I've wiggled before. I may wiggle again.

ewokpelts
08-18-2009, 12:48 PM
I recall a guy here who was upset the sox asked him to reconsider dropping his season tickets after the 06 campaign(he opted to have his 06 playoff money refunded instead of being used as an 07 st deposit). They dont really drop you, and with this economy, anything is possible.

It's Dankerific
08-18-2009, 02:33 PM
I figure I'll do whatever the **** I want and the Sox can take it or leave it. They need the $6k more than I need to spend it.

voodoochile
08-18-2009, 02:38 PM
I figure I'll do whatever the **** I want and the Sox can take it or leave it. They need the $6k more than I need to spend it.

Why do you have season tickets, living in Oregon?

kittle42
08-18-2009, 02:40 PM
I just want to be able to improve my tickets for 2010. I think it was bull**** I had the same seats as last season.

fox23
08-18-2009, 05:03 PM
I just want to be able to improve my tickets for 2010. I think it was bull**** I had the same seats as last season.

Hey, we haven't been able to move since we got our tix in 2006, so consider yourself lucky!!

It's Dankerific
08-18-2009, 07:40 PM
Why do you have season tickets, living in Oregon?

Lets see, so if I move back to Chicago I can keep my great seats.

to support the Sox

World Series insurance

family used to split it with me..

they actually used to send most of the promo items in a box to my house.


In any case, the hassle has went UP and the value back has gone DOWN.

Gammons Peter
08-24-2009, 10:33 AM
Does everyone get invoiced for parking? What if you don't want parking?

Oblong
08-24-2009, 11:28 AM
The Tigers did something that I think is smart. Since this is only the third time in modern history (post internet age) that they have a legit shot at the playoffs (2006,2007 are the others) I have nothing to compare it to.

In those years we got our seats assigned to us so there was no need to pay right away. This year we got to pick our seats out. STH's got an email with a password and a link that would be activated at a certain point. After that you could login and order your seats as if it were a regular game, picking out different sections and price levels. Same seats for every potential game.

At first I thought it was a great perk to us to be able to choose our seats. Then I realized it was a way they can get everybody in right away who wants to pick out the best seats, instead of waiting for Sept. 1 and a potential 7 game losing streak diminishes the shot at the playoffs. First come first served type of thing. We got invoices in 2008 and the team was 8 games out when they arrived. But we had 3 or 4 weeks to see if the team would make a run and they were like 11 out by the time the deadline hit. I doubt anybody paid the invoice. But if I could have picked out some great seats in August then I may have went in early to secure a prime spot in case they did make a run.

thegooch
08-24-2009, 11:51 AM
The Tigers did something that I think is smart. Since this is only the third time in modern history (post internet age) that they have a legit shot at the playoffs (2006,2007 are the others) I have nothing to compare it to.

In those years we got our seats assigned to us so there was no need to pay right away. This year we got to pick our seats out. STH's got an email with a password and a link that would be activated at a certain point. After that you could login and order your seats as if it were a regular game, picking out different sections and price levels. Same seats for every potential game.

At first I thought it was a great perk to us to be able to choose our seats. Then I realized it was a way they can get everybody in right away who wants to pick out the best seats, instead of waiting for Sept. 1 and a potential 7 game losing streak diminishes the shot at the playoffs. First come first served type of thing. We got invoices in 2008 and the team was 8 games out when they arrived. But we had 3 or 4 weeks to see if the team would make a run and they were like 11 out by the time the deadline hit. I doubt anybody paid the invoice. But if I could have picked out some great seats in August then I may have went in early to secure a prime spot in case they did make a run.

Im confused. You can go in and order seats OTHER than your STH seats? Can other people go in and order your seats? Seems odd to me, but maybe I'm misreading the post.

Oblong
08-24-2009, 12:26 PM
Im confused. You can go in and order seats OTHER than your STH seats? Can other people go in and order your seats? Seems odd to me, but maybe I'm misreading the post.

That's exactly what it is. There's only 2 categories of holders, full and partial (27/41 games). I'm a partial so I am not sure how it worked for full holders. They got to pick their seats earlier. I believe if they picked their location they were assigned their existing seats.

From talking with others it sounds like they assigned you particular seats for every price level/location and you could pick one of them. I kept going back and forth between 3 different areas and got the same seat location every time. Once I made my purchase then those seats assigned to me probably opened up for others to pick.

If a full season ticket holder, say in section 125, row C, picked seats in 123 row D, belonging during the season to 2 different partiall holders, then those 125 row C become available for someone else if they wanted to move.

tacosalbarojas
08-24-2009, 12:44 PM
The Tigers did something that I think is smart. Since this is only the third time in modern history (post internet age) that they have a legit shot at the playoffs (2006,2007 are the others) I have nothing to compare it to.

In those years we got our seats assigned to us so there was no need to pay right away. This year we got to pick our seats out. STH's got an email with a password and a link that would be activated at a certain point. After that you could login and order your seats as if it were a regular game, picking out different sections and price levels. Same seats for every potential game.

At first I thought it was a great perk to us to be able to choose our seats. Then I realized it was a way they can get everybody in right away who wants to pick out the best seats, instead of waiting for Sept. 1 and a potential 7 game losing streak diminishes the shot at the playoffs. First come first served type of thing. We got invoices in 2008 and the team was 8 games out when they arrived. But we had 3 or 4 weeks to see if the team would make a run and they were like 11 out by the time the deadline hit. I doubt anybody paid the invoice. But if I could have picked out some great seats in August then I may have went in early to secure a prime spot in case they did make a run.
I actually like this.

Lundind1
08-24-2009, 10:17 PM
And, even worse, they NEVER tell us how much the season tickets are going to cost next year before asking us if we are going to renew. That should be illegal! One should never have to commit to something before knowing how much it is going to cost.

I didn't read all the way through, but it is like this for all major league teams. I have some friends who were ticket holders for the Cubs and the Rays and they have the same deal. That is an MLB rule, NOT a white sox rule.

Lundind1
08-24-2009, 10:20 PM
Does everyone get invoiced for parking? What if you don't want parking?

Just call your rep and tell them. They will invoice you again immediately.

ewokpelts
08-25-2009, 10:59 AM
Does everyone get invoiced for parking? What if you don't want parking?you can make mad cash sellin gplayoff parking, as they dont sell advance parking outside of season ticket holders who have parking plans(my package dosent include parking, so i dont get invoiced parking)

dickallen15
08-25-2009, 11:48 AM
I didn't read all the way through, but it is like this for all major league teams. I have some friends who were ticket holders for the Cubs and the Rays and they have the same deal. That is an MLB rule, NOT a white sox rule.

The problem is, the White Sox are a .500 team and they make you decide by Sept. 2 whether or not to purchase playoff tickets and if they don't make the playoffs, if you want a refund, you lose your season ticket spot. Its not an MLB rule. If the White Sox wanted to grant everyone postseason refunds and actually price the games before the invoices were due, there would be no issue. They don't. You are at their mercy since the deposit is non refundable.

DumpJerry
08-25-2009, 12:50 PM
The problem is, the White Sox are a .500 team and they make you decide by Sept. 2 whether or not to purchase playoff tickets and if they don't make the playoffs, if you want a refund, you lose your season ticket spot. Its not an MLB rule. If the White Sox wanted to grant everyone postseason refunds and actually price the games before the invoices were due, there would be no issue. They don't. You are at their mercy since the deposit is non refundable.
Well, by Sept. 2nd we might have a pretty good idea is this playoff thing is happening this year for us. If it looks like it isn't, then according some WSIers, don't pay the postseason invoice. When you get invoiced in November, it will have the entire 2010 amount and you can make your decision.

soxfan21
08-25-2009, 02:08 PM
Well, by Sept. 2nd we might have a pretty good idea is this playoff thing is happening this year for us. If it looks like it isn't, then according some WSIers, don't pay the postseason invoice. When you get invoiced in November, it will have the entire 2010 amount and you can make your decision.


I agree with you Dump. I already put my deposit down thinkng that we probably won't make the postseason, but at least come December I will have more Christmas money to spend because of this "down payment" for next years seats.

thegooch
08-25-2009, 02:17 PM
I agree with you Dump. I already put my deposit down thinkng that we probably won't make the postseason, but at least come December I will have more Christmas money to spend because of this "down payment" for next years seats.

Or you could have put that "down payment" in an interest bearing account and had even more christmas money come December. Instead the Sox make the interest off of your money so you can have the peace of mind that they won't give away your seats.

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 02:19 PM
Or you could have put that "down payment" in an interest bearing account and had even more christmas money come December. Instead the Sox make the interest off of your money so you can have the peace of mind that they won't give away your seats.

If you can get 5% interest (unlikely) on $1000 for the next 4 months, you are talking about $16. I doubt too many season ticket holders are wringing their hands over that kind of money.

thegooch
08-25-2009, 02:21 PM
If you can get 5% interest (unlikely) on $1000 for the next 4 months, you are talking about $16. I doubt too many season ticket holders are wringing their hands over that kind of money.

If it's such a small amount of money then the Sox should have no problem doing away with this policy.

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 02:24 PM
If it's such a small amount of money then the Sox should have no problem doing away with this policy.

In theory, yes, but in reality, no. It not only locks people in for their season tickets early but it also adds up. I mean it's $16 for one holder, but it's probably a few thousand at least for the Sox.

It also costs them money to issue refunds as opposed to just rolling it over because someone has to do all that paperwork.

So they can make a few thousand and lock people in or spend a few thousand. Choice seems pretty obvious to me...

It's Dankerific
08-25-2009, 02:25 PM
If you can get 5% interest (unlikely) on $1000 for the next 4 months, you are talking about $16. I doubt too many season ticket holders are wringing their hands over that kind of money.

#1, its more like $3k for my 2 seats.

#2, how much has the market went up in the last 4 months? and yes, i realize that its riskier but thats where I keep my money anyways.

#3, its more about not knowing what the world will be like in november/december. both national economy and personal things like a job or unknown expenses.

It seems wastful to do all this marketing for NEW STH when pressuring old STH to take a particular set of requirements or leave it. How many STH are really like "I don't like the White Sox anymore, thats why I'm going to leave." its almost always about "can i afford this". no reason for such rigid rules and regulations unless there are more non-fan STH that I would guesstimate.

thegooch
08-25-2009, 02:32 PM
In theory, yes, but in reality, no. It not only locks people in for their season tickets early but it also adds up. I mean it's $16 for one holder, but it's probably a few thousand at least for the Sox.



Therein lies the rub. It's a money making venture forced upon the most loyal fans. My opinion, as I have stated repeatedly throughout this thread, is that it's bush league.

The argument that issuing refunds costs money doesn't play with me either. If that is such a huge expense, change the way you sell playoff tickets to STH.

doublem23
08-25-2009, 02:32 PM
If it's such a small amount of money then the Sox should have no problem doing away with this policy.

Not a lot for one person, but if they're banking $20 on every STH (20,000ish?)... That adds up.

dickallen15
08-25-2009, 02:59 PM
Not a lot for one person, but if they're banking $20 on every STH (20,000ish?)... That adds up.

First off, they won't get anywhere near 5%. Secondly, they charge each season ticketholder account a $25 handling fee which is more than any interest they would make at this time. It would be very easy for them to issue refunds. The turnaround time is brief, but I don't know why, even though unless something really bad happens to me and I will renew anyway, people have to either risk losing their seats or lock themselves into something non refundable without knowing the pricing for next season. At the very least, they can say they are freezing ticket prices, and maybe even throw a bone and lower prices for some seats. The renewal rate and new accounts figure may be a lot better.

ewokpelts
08-25-2009, 03:11 PM
if you plan to renew, then what's the issue?

fox23
08-25-2009, 03:12 PM
Quick side question - If the Sox don't make the playoffs, does that $25 "handling" fee roll into our deposit for next year, or do we eat that cost no matter what?

FoulkeFan
08-25-2009, 03:17 PM
IMHO, it doesn't have anything to do with the interest or the cost of issuing refunds. It has to do with STH retention. Who's going to cancel their season tickets if they have already paid a $3000 deposit down for playoff tickets? Playoff tickets are a huge enticement and the Sox know that. Better to get people's money while the Sox are (barely) in the hunt for the playoffs then try to get it in the off season when people are disappointed.

That being said, the Sox don't have a huge season ticket holder waiting list. If you've been a season ticket holder for a long time and you ask for a refund, I have a hard time believing that they'll move someone else into your seats for next year. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it seems pretty unlikely to me. And if you haven't been a season ticket holder for a long time, you probably don't have the greatest seats anyway so who cares? :D:

dickallen15
08-25-2009, 03:18 PM
if you plan to renew, then what's the issue?
The issue is lack of control I have. What if they decided to double prices?
What if I lost my job? What if the stock market crashed? What if I got very sick? The fact that the White Sox have all these accounts hostage makes the odds of prices increasing a lot more likely. If you could simply say thanks but no thanks after they determined pricing and received all you funds back, I'd have no problem.

I've had a season ticket account for 20 seasons. After 2005 I actually was asked by my old rep if I would agree to worse location than what I currently have. Actually up 3 rows in the same section. I said no. I don't want to miss a payment by a day or give them any reason to just say I have to move, but I don't want to be at their mercy either. If they do something so obnoxious, I will walk away, but I do love going to games.

dickallen15
08-25-2009, 03:19 PM
Quick side question - If the Sox don't make the playoffs, does that $25 "handling" fee roll into our deposit for next year, or do we eat that cost no matter what?
I'm pretty sure you eat it.

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 03:43 PM
#1, its more like $3k for my 2 seats.

#2, how much has the market went up in the last 4 months? and yes, i realize that its riskier but thats where I keep my money anyways.

#3, its more about not knowing what the world will be like in november/december. both national economy and personal things like a job or unknown expenses.

It seems wastful to do all this marketing for NEW STH when pressuring old STH to take a particular set of requirements or leave it. How many STH are really like "I don't like the White Sox anymore, thats why I'm going to leave." its almost always about "can i afford this". no reason for such rigid rules and regulations unless there are more non-fan STH that I would guesstimate.

Just to be clear, your playoff tickets for 2 seats is $3000? That's a max of 20 tickets, they cost $150 apiece? Not saying you are wrong, just want to be sure you got the math right.

Market or not, if you can get a 5% return on the money, it would be real solid.

And again, the choice is yours. Buy the post season tickets or not. You can still have your seats next year if you don''t, you just can't get a guarantee of the same seats if you do unless you leave the money on deposit.

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 03:44 PM
Therein lies the rub. It's a money making venture forced upon the most loyal fans. My opinion, as I have stated repeatedly throughout this thread, is that it's bush league.

The argument that issuing refunds costs money doesn't play with me either. If that is such a huge expense, change the way you sell playoff tickets to STH.

They did, they decided to keep the money on deposit.

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 03:45 PM
I'm just curious. When are deposits generally due for next years seats if you don't buy the post season package?

Edit: Also, what percentage of the bill is due at that time?

whtsox13
08-25-2009, 03:46 PM
Just to be clear, your playoff tickets for 2 seats is $3000? That's a max of 20 tickets, they cost $150 apiece? Not saying you are wrong, just want to be sure you got the math right.

Market or not, if you can get a 5% return on the money, it would be real solid.

And again, the choice is yours. Buy the post season tickets or not. You can still have your seats next year if you don''t, you just can't get a guarantee of the same seats if you do unless you leave the money on deposit.

$3,000 sounds right for 2 seats. I have 4 seats plus parking and my total was $6,400.

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 03:48 PM
$3,000 sounds right for 2 seats. I have 4 seats plus parking and my total was $6,400.

Okay.

kittle42
08-25-2009, 03:56 PM
Just to be clear, your playoff tickets for 2 seats is $3000?

I have two seats and parking. $3400.

captainclutch24
08-25-2009, 04:09 PM
The Chicago White Sox thank you for your interest free loan

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 04:10 PM
I'm still waiting for an answer on when the ST deposit is normally due for renewals and what percentage of the total price is due at that time.

DumpJerry
08-25-2009, 04:15 PM
I'm still waiting for an answer on when the ST deposit is normally due for renewals and what percentage of the total price is due at that time.
Usually in November. You can pay the full amount or 50%.

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 04:24 PM
Usually in November. You can pay the full amount or 50%.

Really? You mean all this whining is for pretty much nothing? I mean most people's playoff tickets will be for just about 50% of their full season total or less I am guessing.

Now factor in a standard 30-60 day refund period and we're talking maybe 4 weeks of extra access to the money - maybe. That's if no post season tickets get used at all.

All this whining and wringing of the hands and gnashing of the teeth for what is effectively a wash. Too ****ing funny...

:rolling:

DumpJerry
08-25-2009, 04:27 PM
Really? You mean all this whining is for pretty much nothing? I mean most people's playoff tickets will be for just about 50% of their full season total or less I am guessing.

Now factor in a standard 30-60 day refund period and we're talking maybe 4 weeks of extra access to the money - maybe. That's if no post season tickets get used at all.

All this whining and wringing of the hands and gnashing of the teeth for what is effectively a wash. Too ****ing funny...

:rolling:
Actually, the complaint is not the time they have the money, but the fact that if you buy postseason tickets and do not request a refund for unplayed games (thereby losing your seats), you are locked into buying season tickets for the next season without knowing what the price will be.

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 04:33 PM
Actually, the complaint is not the time they have the money, but the fact that if you buy postseason tickets and do not request a refund for unplayed games (thereby losing your seats), you are locked into buying season tickets for the next season without knowing what the price will be.

That makes a little more sense, but most of the complaints I've been reading are about interest free loans and how people can make a fortune off of that money if they have access to it for the 4 weeks (maybe) before they have to return it to the Sox.

DumpJerry
08-25-2009, 04:34 PM
That makes a little more sense, but most of the complaints I've been reading are about interest free loans and how people can make a fortune off of that money if they have access to it for the 4 weeks (maybe) before they have to return it to the Sox.
:welcome:
Yes. Some are complaining about the so-called "interest free loan." If I were in marketing, I'd do the same thing given the size of the captive audience the Sox have. If they feel there will be no net loss of STHs, why not? It locks people in early.

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 04:39 PM
Yes. Some are complaining about the so-called "interest free loan." If I were in marketing, I'd do the same thing given the size of the captive audience the Sox have. If they feel there will be no net loss of STHs, why not? It locks people in early.

It also saves a massive hassle of having to create letters and then authorize the refunds and all the other paperwork involved not to mention the letters that have to be mailed. Heck, it's got to be close to $5K in postage alone.

ewokpelts
08-25-2009, 04:59 PM
The issue is lack of control I have. What if they decided to double prices?
What if I lost my job? What if the stock market crashed? What if I got very sick? The fact that the White Sox have all these accounts hostage makes the odds of prices increasing a lot more likely. If you could simply say thanks but no thanks after they determined pricing and received all you funds back, I'd have no problem.

I've had a season ticket account for 20 seasons. After 2005 I actually was asked by my old rep if I would agree to worse location than what I currently have. Actually up 3 rows in the same section. I said no. I don't want to miss a payment by a day or give them any reason to just say I have to move, but I don't want to be at their mercy either. If they do something so obnoxious, I will walk away, but I do love going to games.
from a discussion with my old rep, they will let you use the money for other ticket products, ie groups.

unlike the bulls, who WILL pocket your money

It's Dankerific
08-25-2009, 07:28 PM
Quick side question - If the Sox don't make the playoffs, does that $25 "handling" fee roll into our deposit for next year, or do we eat that cost no matter what?

You eat it. I remember eating it in 2006

Just to be clear, your playoff tickets for 2 seats is $3000? That's a max of 20 tickets, they cost $150 apiece? Not saying you are wrong, just want to be sure you got the math right.

Market or not, if you can get a 5% return on the money, it would be real solid.

And again, the choice is yours. Buy the post season tickets or not. You can still have your seats next year if you don''t, you just can't get a guarantee of the same seats if you do unless you leave the money on deposit.

my invoice is right infront of me, taunting me. its $3075, including the $25 "service".

again, the real thing that sucks is that lack of choice come november. I wouldnt give a damn if they gave me a choice in november to get my money back or just apply it. But that its definitely gone, that hurts.

the argument of "just dont buy playoff seats" is a bit hollow for me. The playoff seats are a STH perk of THIS season. Tying it to basically needing to buy two seasons for the playoff tickets is wrong, imo.

I think I'm leaning towards just checking the box. they got someone in line for my seats and a $6k bill in this economy, good for them.

Thats assuming its still even a valid choice come Sept 2.

thegooch
08-25-2009, 09:44 PM
It also saves a massive hassle of having to create letters and then authorize the refunds and all the other paperwork involved not to mention the letters that have to be mailed. Heck, it's got to be close to $5K in postage alone.

Yeah, it would be tough to mail $5K worth of letters after collecting $125,000 - $200,000 in "processing fees".

voodoochile
08-25-2009, 10:08 PM
Yeah, it would be tough to mail $5K worth of letters after collecting $125,000 - $200,000 in "processing fees".

I'm surprised you don't get those back too. I did for my 2000 playoff tickets I bought through Ticketmaster.

But again, it doesn't make much sense from their perspective. You can have your money back if you want it, but most people probably are renewing so they reward those who do so by promising them their seats back or if some people take refunds, the chance to improve possibly (I'm guessing here.)

Pay it, don't pay it. Renew, don't renew. The whining is simply silly.

soxfanreggie
08-25-2009, 10:29 PM
I take it they won't get a lot of takers for the "playoff payoff" promo that
they're running besides people who want to get ST for next year.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/ticketing/ticket_plans.jsp?loc=deposits&affiliateId=panel_cws_playoffpayoff082509

thegooch
08-26-2009, 08:52 AM
Pay it, don't pay it. Renew, don't renew. The whining is simply silly.

You're right; just sit back, relax, and strap it down cause BOHICA will get you in the end anyhow.

LauraJ14
08-26-2009, 10:53 AM
I'm surprised you don't get those back too. I did for my 2000 playoff tickets I bought through Ticketmaster.

But again, it doesn't make much sense from their perspective. You can have your money back if you want it, but most people probably are renewing so they reward those who do so by promising them their seats back or if some people take refunds, the chance to improve possibly (I'm guessing here.)

Pay it, don't pay it. Renew, don't renew. The whining is simply silly.


I don't think that whining about thousands of dollars is so silly with the economy the way it is right now. If the Sox weren't in the playoff chase then the money for the first payment of next year's season tickets wouldn't be due until Nov. So I have 2 extra months to decide if I can afford to keep my tickets for next year or if I will still have a job next year or if my company is going to cut my pay again which may mean that I can't afford to renew.

voodoochile
08-26-2009, 10:57 AM
I don't think that whining about thousands of dollars is so silly with the economy the way it is right now. If the Sox weren't in the playoff chase then the money for the first payment of next year's season tickets wouldn't be due until Nov. So I have 2 extra months to decide if I can afford to keep my tickets for next year or if I will still have a job next year or if my company is going to cut my pay again which may mean that I can't afford to renew.

So make the payment and request the refund. If you can afford the tickets next year, you can make that decision in February, you just won't have the same seats.

doogiec
08-26-2009, 12:03 PM
In previous years, they've charged the processing fee only if they actually ship the tickets. There have been years where they sold postseason tickets, but slipped so far out of the race in Sept that they never bothered shipping (and I assume printing) the tickets. In those years I always received a refund including the processing fee.

Of course, that policy may have changed also, as they clearly are using postseason sales to their advantage in every way possible.

jabrch
08-26-2009, 12:33 PM
So make the payment and request the refund. If you can afford the tickets next year, you can make that decision in February, you just won't have the same seats.


Alternatively - call your ticket rep, discuss this with them, and see if they can provide you options.

JB98
08-26-2009, 12:41 PM
I don't think that whining about thousands of dollars is so silly with the economy the way it is right now. If the Sox weren't in the playoff chase then the money for the first payment of next year's season tickets wouldn't be due until Nov. So I have 2 extra months to decide if I can afford to keep my tickets for next year or if I will still have a job next year or if my company is going to cut my pay again which may mean that I can't afford to renew.

I have sympathy with this post. As many people here know, I work for a company that is currently in bankruptcy. If things work out and I still have a job, I obviously want to keep my Sox tickets for next year. But with things in such limbo, it's hard to commit that money right now. I have no idea where things will stand two months from now. No idea.

It's a tough decision on what to do here, although it will be made easier if the Sox continue to struggle. The Sept. 2 date is a week away. Whether I take the risk may come down to the Sox position in the standings.

DumpJerry
08-26-2009, 01:01 PM
I emailed my rep asking him if we do not pay the post season invoice, will that place our seats at risk for 2010. I also asked if the only way to risk our seats for 2010 is to elect the cash refund option on the post season invoice. Here is his response:

You are correct about the post season. Your seats will be yours next year if you choose not to purchase the post season. You will get an invoice in November like normal. Checking the box on the invoice after paying for the post season is the only way your seats for 2010 will be canceled.

I hope this clears up a lot of angst here (I know it won't, but I can dream, can't I?)

It's Dankerific
08-26-2009, 01:40 PM
So make the payment and request the refund. If you can afford the tickets next year, you can make that decision in February, you just won't have the same seats.

You seem pretty dismissive of the people the White Sox use to guage interest in the club and according to them : payroll for the team you support. I hope you preach the same attitude (stop whining) about any roster decisions that come from reduced ticket sales and revenue OR in the world where we make the playoffs this year: anyone complaining about street prices and the lack of availability for face value tickets from the box office.

I've talked to my rep about the situation. The response is basically "this is how the white sox do business". Fine. But there is nothing wrong with this group of STH talking together about what they've been told, what strategies they might have and comisserating about a possible loss of tickets to people that by the nature of them participating on this board will probably be pretty effected by losing connection to the team they might have had for years/decades just because of a **** poor economy and an inflexible business model.

To any of the other "whining" STH: you have my compassion, my understanding, my empathy and a willing ear to hear any of your venting.

DumpJerry
08-26-2009, 02:21 PM
You seem pretty dismissive of the people the White Sox use to guage interest in the club and according to them : payroll for the team you support. I hope you preach the same attitude (stop whining) about any roster decisions that come from reduced ticket sales and revenue OR in the world where we make the playoffs this year: anyone complaining about street prices and the lack of availability for face value tickets from the box office.
You actually believed that bluff from Kenny? He said there would be no major acquisitions because attendance was down. Then he turned around and got Peavy ($$$$$) and Rios ($$$$$).

It's Dankerific
08-26-2009, 02:21 PM
You actually believed that bluff from Kenny? He said there would be no major acquisitions because attendance was down. Then he turned around and got Peavy ($$$$$) and Rios ($$$$$).

And then he said if we dont win and pack the stadium, we might not be able to keep everyone next year.

voodoochile
08-26-2009, 02:21 PM
To any of the other "whining" STH: you have my compassion, my understanding, my empathy and a willing ear to hear any of your venting.

You're a real mensch, ID... Makes me proud to post at the same site as you...

It's Dankerific
08-26-2009, 02:23 PM
You're a real mensch, ID... Makes me proud to post at the same site as you...

Thats a sweet compliment. thank you.

voodoochile
08-26-2009, 02:30 PM
Thats a sweet compliment. thank you.

You're welcome...

kittle42
08-26-2009, 02:35 PM
You actually believed that bluff from Kenny? He said there would be no major acquisitions because attendance was down. Then he turned around and got Peavy ($$$$$) and Rios ($$$$$).

And then he said if we dont win and pack the stadium, we might not be able to keep everyone next year.

This franschise has suffered from selective frugality for decades now. I would not at all be surprised to see us with as many holes as we had this season going into next, with the excuse that the money was all dried up from Rios and Peavy.

LoveYourSuit
08-26-2009, 09:10 PM
I predict the front office is ****ting bricks right now, this team picked the wrong time to fall out of the race when renewal money is due next week.

chisoxfanatic
08-26-2009, 09:53 PM
There is no way in HELL I am sending in my postseason ticket invoice!

DumpJerry
08-26-2009, 10:02 PM
I predict the front office is ****ting bricks right now, this team picked the wrong time to fall out of the race when renewal money is due next week.
Renewal money is not due until late November/early December.

doublem23
08-26-2009, 10:09 PM
I predict the front office is ****ting bricks right now, this team picked the wrong time to fall out of the race when renewal money is due next week.

STH should send thank you cards to the following address, letting them know they appreciate their honest, on-the-field play and saving them from plunking down all that cash on a post-season that simply will not happen this year...

Ozzie Guillen
333 W. 35th St.
Chicago, IL 60616

Vienna
08-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Well, I just paid my invoice recently. I said that I wanted a refund for the unused money -- knowing my rep would call me on it. I did that to let him know that I didn't like the policy AND that I would change my status and give him credit for the "save." Given the past couple of weeks, I think that I'm going to have a healthy down payment on next year's season tickets, but am still holding out hope for post season ball at the Cell.

LoveYourSuit
08-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Renewal money is not due until late November/early December.


Play off money basically becomes renewal money.

It's Dankerific
09-01-2009, 05:16 PM
I can't believe they sent me a reminder today.

Certainly shows a lack of tact....if not more.

DumpJerry
09-01-2009, 06:34 PM
I can't believe they sent me a reminder today.

Certainly shows a lack of tact....if not more.
Why? I think you're overracting a bit to them. If you don't want to buy in, don't. It's really that simple.

I didn't get a reminder, I guess I'm not important to them.:shrug:

They're not getting postseason money because I don't have it right now, it has nothing to do with their recent play.

dakuda
09-01-2009, 06:35 PM
I received the reminder as well. I am not sending in the postseason money at all, since no one has been able to tell me what the tickets will cost next year.

Unless I find someone to split them, I am not renewing either. My financial situation is different, and cuts have to come somewhere. This is a luxury.

dickallen15
09-01-2009, 06:45 PM
Why? I think you're overracting a bit to them. If you don't want to buy in, don't. It's really that simple.

I didn't get a reminder, I guess I'm not important to them.:shrug:

They're not getting postseason money because I don't have it right now, it has nothing to do with their recent play.

Its a form letter and actually its very respectful. I guess the timing with the Sox losing and dumping veterans gave me a chuckle when I read it. I'm not buying in because of the long odds, although if the Sox win tonight and tomorrow afternoon and Detroit loses tonight, there's a slight chance I may change my mind. I will renew for next year, unless they do something drastic or something changes in my life. Last year it was advantage Sox as they had our money and were able to drop payroll and increase ticket prices. This year its advantage season ticketholders as long as most weren't duped into buying in by the deadline.

chisoxfanatic
09-01-2009, 06:56 PM
I received the reminder as well. I am not sending in the postseason money at all, since no one has been able to tell me what the tickets will cost next year.

Unless I find someone to split them, I am not renewing either. My financial situation is different, and cuts have to come somewhere. This is a luxury.
Same here on all counts. And, even if I'm able to find extra part-time employment, that money will be used in other ways.

CWS44
09-01-2009, 07:20 PM
I thought the sentence at the end of the reminder, about valuing you as a loyal season ticket holder, greatly appreciating your loyalty and passion... was nice, but I hope to see that appreciation in the form of a good upgrade - if I renew.

It's Dankerific
09-01-2009, 07:52 PM
I guess I disagree. The last sentence or two meant nothing to me. They are giving up, they cut payroll last night. To then "remind" me to purchase postseason tickets was just pouring salt in the wound.

They'd already have my money if they gave me the option to change my mind in november, who knows what they'll get out of me now.

CWS44
09-01-2009, 07:58 PM
Maybe I should have used teal. Really, though, at least that were a little thoughtful at the end, even if pouring salt in the wound. I am still on the fence about what to do here.

dakuda
09-01-2009, 08:01 PM
I guess I disagree. The last sentence or two meant nothing to me. They are giving up, they cut payroll last night. To then "remind" me to purchase postseason tickets was just pouring salt in the wound.

They'd already have my money if they gave me the option to change my mind in november, who knows what they'll get out of me now.

I didn't even read the email. I saw the subject and decided to skip it since I pretty much could guess the content and my mind was made up.

It's Dankerific
09-01-2009, 08:01 PM
Maybe I should have used teal. Really, though, at least that were a little thoughtful at the end, even if pouring salt in the wound. I am still on the fence about what to do here.

I don't think its possible for them to make the playoffs. now two other teams need to collapse, not just 1.

So, if you dont send them money now, you'll have your full choice come November.

JB98
09-01-2009, 08:03 PM
I won't be paying the playoff invoice. I'll make a final decision on next year come November.

CWS44
09-01-2009, 08:18 PM
I'm leaning toward waiting until November. It's no fun getting those sheets of playoff tickets that go completely unused.

dickallen15
09-01-2009, 10:16 PM
I'm leaning toward waiting until November. It's no fun getting those sheets of playoff tickets that go completely unused.
Why would you want to pay an additional $25 for some useless tickets? This is a no brainer.

Warriorjan
09-01-2009, 11:03 PM
Can you throw a couple of quotes from the reminder out? I'm not the named season ticket-holder so I didn't see it, of course. Our invoice was shredded on Sunday.

ewokpelts
09-02-2009, 10:49 AM
it's an auto email. they were sending this whether we were 2 games up or if we're in the toilet. like now.

It's Dankerific
09-02-2009, 02:28 PM
it's an auto email. they were sending this whether we were 2 games up or if we're in the toilet. like now.

They could have stopped it. Its not a Rocket