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doublem23
08-13-2009, 10:01 PM
Some jackass tosses a beer on Shane Victorino at a Cubs game, so what do they publish? A photo album of unruly "Chicago" baseball fans, so plenty of face time for the Ligues.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-bad-fans-gallery,0,2188122.photogallery

1908<2005
08-13-2009, 10:10 PM
Uhh ok they feature both Cubs and Sox fans in that album...

(The hat incident, bartman, this, etc)

gobears1987
08-13-2009, 10:10 PM
Normally I roll my eyes at threads about bias, but this one is dead on. There is no reason to bring Ligue up at all except for the fact that the Trib has a love affair of bringing him up.

Why not show images of Flub fans throwing trash on the field or the ball throwing that led Marty Brennaman to say this about the Cub fans:

"This is the kind of thing, quite honestly, right now, that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose. Among all baseball fans, and I can't attest to the Yankees or Red Sox, because we don't see them with any degree of regularity unless it's inter-league play, but far and away the most obnoxious fans in baseball, in this league, are those who follow this team right here. Throwing 15 or 18 balls onto the field, there's absolutely no excuse for that, and that is so typical of Chicago Cubs fans. It's unbelievable."

"You simply root against 'em. Ya'know, I've said all winter they talked about this team winning the division, and my comment is they won't win it, because at the end of the day, they still are the Chicago Cubs, and they will figure out a way to screw this whole thing up."

Brian26
08-13-2009, 10:19 PM
Some jackass tosses a beer on Shane Victorino at a Cubs game, so what do they publish? A photo album of unruly "Chicago" baseball fans, so plenty of face time for the Ligues.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-bad-fans-gallery,0,2188122.photogallery


Is that Steve Dahl in picture # 9?

doublem23
08-13-2009, 10:23 PM
Uhh ok they feature both Cubs and Sox fans in that album...

(The hat incident, bartman, this, etc)

And what the hell do we have to do with this? Guy runs on the field at Sox Park, you think they're going to bring up Cub fans? No way.

1908<2005
08-13-2009, 10:25 PM
And what the hell do we have to do with this? Guy runs on the field at Sox Park, you think they're going to bring up Cub fans? No way.

I doubt it. Beating up umpires and causing an innocent 1st base coach to suffer hearing damage is 100 times worse than throwing a beer at an outfielder. Didn't Sammy Sosa have batteries thrown at him in Philly or something?

1908<2005
08-13-2009, 10:28 PM
I just think these bias topics are a little tiresome. Everyone knows the Tribune are bias towards the Cubs are there's a reason for that. Cubs articles get them more hits than White Sox articles generating them more money.

DumpJerry
08-13-2009, 10:33 PM
Every time a Cub fan tells me to "stop living in the past" when the 2005 World Series is brought up, I tell them to stop bringing up Ligue. They are further back in the past.

Brian26
08-13-2009, 10:34 PM
I just think these bias topics are a little tiresome. Everyone knows the Tribune are bias towards the Cubs are there's a reason for that. Cubs articles get them more hits than White Sox articles generating them more money.

Your logic is flawed. If people are clicking on Cub articles anyway, there's no reason to mention the Sox.

Also, the word you want is "biased".

1908<2005
08-13-2009, 10:37 PM
Every time a Cub fan tells me to "stop living in the past" when the 2005 World Series is brought up, I tell them to stop bringing up Ligue. They are further back in the past.

Do Cubs fans really still bring up Ligue because that's pretty pathetic. Right now is the first time I've heard their names in awhile.

DumpJerry
08-13-2009, 10:43 PM
Do Cubs fans really still bring up Ligue because that's pretty pathetic. Right now is the first time I've heard their names in awhile.
They do. They do. It's getting real tiring.

I wish they would bring up all of our playoff wins since the 21st Century started instead. I promise to talk about all six wins they had this century........

SoxandtheCityTee
08-13-2009, 10:46 PM
Beating up umpires and causing an innocent 1st base coach to suffer hearing damage is 100 times worse than throwing a beer at an outfielder. Didn't Sammy Sosa have batteries thrown at him in Philly or something?

100 times worse, huh? How very precise. If it had worked out badly and the outfielder suffered vision damage, would that even out your math calculation? How is the Phillies CF any less "innocent" than the KC first base coach? What has Sosa got to do with it? I've said it before and you showed it again:

:dtroll:

kittle42
08-13-2009, 11:35 PM
100 times worse, huh? How very precise. If it had worked out badly and the outfielder suffered vision damage, would that even out your math calculation? How is the Phillies CF any less "innocent" than the KC first base coach? What has Sosa got to do with it? I've said it before and you showed it again:

GMAB. The Ligue/Dybas instances were guys intentionally running on the field to beat someone physically with their fists.

The ****ing idiot in the stupid Wrigley bleachers threw a beer at someone.

Which one is much, much, much worse?

Please.

TommyJohn
08-13-2009, 11:38 PM
100 times worse, huh? How very precise. If it had worked out badly and the outfielder suffered vision damage, would that even out your math calculation? How is the Phillies CF any less "innocent" than the KC first base coach? What has Sosa got to do with it? I've said it before and you showed it again:

:dtroll:

GMAB. The Ligue/Dybas instances were guys intentionally running on the field to beat someone physically with their fists.

The ****ing idiot in the stupid Wrigley bleachers threw a beer at someone.

Which one is much, much, much worse?

Please.

Ya gotta love these ****ing pissing matches.

WhiteSox5187
08-13-2009, 11:42 PM
GMAB. The Ligue/Dybas instances were guys intentionally running on the field to beat someone physically with their fists.

The ****ing idiot in the stupid Wrigley bleachers threw a beer at someone.

Which one is much, much, much worse?

Please.

The Cubs act like that has never happened at Wrigley though and it has. Three times. Randy Myers in 1995, the Dodgers in 2001 and Howry in 2007.

Cuck the Fubs
08-13-2009, 11:43 PM
GMAB. The Ligue/Dybas instances were guys intentionally running on the field to beat someone physically with their fists.

The ****ing idiot in the stupid Wrigley bleachers threw a beer at someone.

Which one is much, much, much worse?

Please.

Running onto the field of play to attempt to pummel your teams pitcher is worse..how many times has it happened in that **** hole on the North Side? Or were those guys ( one of them barefoot ) charging the mound an accident?!?!? You GMAB!

Many of you are missing the point of this arguement...I have been hearing for years about the asshats that ran out on the field at the Cell because that NEVER happens at Wrigley.

Yet time and time again since those instances at the Cell, ******* Cub fans have done MULTIPLE stupid things...yet somehow the media and others want to look past that. I kept hearing today about how that one guy doesn't represent the Cubs fanbase...fair enough, but please tell me how it's okay that the Ligue/Dybas incidents to this day still DEFINE our fanbase.

That's the issue here...not what or whom threw beer

MISoxfan
08-14-2009, 12:23 AM
I doubt it. Beating up umpires and causing an innocent 1st base coach to suffer hearing damage is 100 times worse than throwing a beer at an outfielder. Didn't Sammy Sosa have batteries thrown at him in Philly or something?

No **** they aren't comparable, but if this were a Sox fan pouring a beer on someone do you think they would bring up the Cubs at all?

kittle42
08-14-2009, 12:37 AM
The Cubs act like that has never happened at Wrigley though and it has. Three times. Randy Myers in 1995, the Dodgers in 2001 and Howry in 2007.

That's not what I was debating.

kittle42
08-14-2009, 12:38 AM
Running onto the field of play to attempt to pummel your teams pitcher is worse..how many times has it happened in that **** hole on the North Side? Or were those guys ( one of them barefoot ) charging the mound an accident?!?!? You GMAB!

Many of you are missing the point of this arguement...I have been hearing for years about the asshats that ran out on the field at the Cell because that NEVER happens at Wrigley.

Yet time and time again since those instances at the Cell, ******* Cub fans have done MULTIPLE stupid things...yet somehow the media and others want to look past that. I kept hearing today about how that one guy doesn't represent the Cubs fanbase...fair enough, but please tell me how it's okay that the Ligue/Dybas incidents to this day still DEFINE our fanbase.

That's the issue here...not what or whom threw beer

I wasn't debating that, either.

No one in this thread can read.

WhiteSox5187
08-14-2009, 01:06 AM
I wasn't debating that, either.

No one in this thread can read.

dadf dafiojowi woijeoa!

chisox616
08-14-2009, 02:12 AM
Jesus, you Chicago people have it easy with the Ligues. Try being surrounded by KC fans for a change (where I go to college), NO Royals fans have any respect for the White Sox because of that. It's just bad seeing as it was just two...relatively crazed fans that ruined the image of thousands.

I've changed the minds of a few, but there's only so much I can do. Going to a game at Kauffman, hearing nothing but remarks like "They should really put a glass shield around our first base coach when the White Sox come to town!" by the fans...it's tiring...

cards press box
08-14-2009, 03:04 AM
The Cubs act like that has never happened at Wrigley though and it has. Three times. Randy Myers in 1995, the Dodgers in 2001 and Howry in 2007.

That's not what I was debating.

The Cubs have had more than their share of fans storming the field, fans starting brawls with opposing teams and fans dumping beer on opposing players. I'd like to add two thoughts on this subject:

1. Too much alcohol is the common thread through all of these incidents at Wrigley. That is the significant issue here. The Tribune has an obvious conflict of interest that either precludes or, at least, chills their "reporting" on this issue. Baseball fans in Chicago have known for years that too many fans at night games at Wrigley are overserved. That is just one of many hassles attendant to the true Wrigley experience. Many posters on this site are frustrated with the local media (including the Trib's propaganda engines, WGN radio, WGN tv and the Trib itself) presenting Wrigley as this slice of Norman Rockwell americana when the experience at Wrigley in 2009 is something different altogether. As Albert Einstein observed, anger is the natural human reaction to being lied to. The Trib has lied to everyone for years about both Wrigley and U.S. Cellular Field. The resulting Sox fan anger is quite natural and understandable.

2. Last night, a Cub fan threw a beer on Shane Victorino. I recall a Cub fan tossing a beer on Ken Griffey, Jr. a few years ago. Can you think of two guys who have played harder and hustled more than Victorino and Griffey? Those guys have played through injuries and given everything they have to the game. Throwing beer on such performers is profoundly ignorant.

cards press box
08-14-2009, 03:22 AM
Maybe I spoke too soon. Neil Hayes of the Sun Times wrote an article on the culture at today's Wrigley, where alcohol fits in that culture and Tribune hypocrisy.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/hayes/1716093,CST-SPT-neil14.article

TDog
08-14-2009, 03:29 AM
I was more reminded of the famous picture of Al Smith being doused by beer in 1959 World Series in Old Comiskey. Of course, that was accidental.

As a former journalist who doesn't live in the Chicago area, I think it's appropriate to talk about fan incidents throughout the city. In California, people lump all Chicago fans indents without regard of whether they occurred in American League or National League ballparks. Suggesting that such coverage is biased because you believe that the same incident at the Cell doesn't support your argument that the Tribune is biased against the White Sox.

I think that's why some of us believe these bias complaints are growing tiresome.

DrCrawdad
08-14-2009, 06:24 AM
Some jackass tosses a beer on Shane Victorino at a Cubs game, so what do they publish? A photo album of unruly "Chicago" baseball fans, so plenty of face time for the Ligues.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-bad-fans-gallery,0,2188122.photogallery



Incident at Wrigley and they bring up the Ligue and Dybass incidents, nice! Picture 1, about the incident at hand. Pictures 2-6, Ligue/Dybass. No mention that Dybass is a Cubbie fan!

But again, why are they bringing up the incidents at the Cell? Back when Ligue/Dybass happened, did they dredge up photos of incidents at Wrigley? No. In fact notice that they didn't publish a single picture of the Myers incident in this current photo essay.

DrCrawdad
08-14-2009, 06:26 AM
I was more reminded of the famous picture of Al Smith being doused by beer in 1959 World Series in Old Comiskey. Of course, that was accidental.

As a former journalist who doesn't live in the Chicago area, I think it's appropriate to talk about fan incidents throughout the city. In California, people lump all Chicago fans indents without regard of whether they occurred in American League or National League ballparks. Suggesting that such coverage is biased because you believe that the same incident at the Cell doesn't support your argument that the Tribune is biased against the White Sox.

I think that's why some of us believe these bias complaints are growing tiresome.

Did they drag out their photos of Wrigley incidents back when the Ligue/Dybass things happened?

TommyJohn
08-14-2009, 07:29 AM
Running onto the field of play to attempt to pummel your teams pitcher is worse..how many times has it happened in that **** hole on the North Side? Or were those guys ( one of them barefoot ) charging the mound an accident?!?!? You GMAB!

Many of you are missing the point of this arguement...I have been hearing for years about the asshats that ran out on the field at the Cell because that NEVER happens at Wrigley.

Yet time and time again since those instances at the Cell, ******* Cub fans have done MULTIPLE stupid things...yet somehow the media and others want to look past that. I kept hearing today about how that one guy doesn't represent the Cubs fanbase...fair enough, but please tell me how it's okay that the Ligue/Dybas incidents to this day still DEFINE our fanbase.

That's the issue here...not what or whom threw beerThank you! I bolded these sentences in your post because that is the point I have tried to make in the past (if only I could stop living in it). It is what we hear when they happen-when Ligue and Dybas happened, the Sox were a national joke, and members of the Chicago media had a field day. But when fan misbehavior happens at Wrigley it "doesn't represent" the Cubs' fanbase. And they are right, not all Cub fans are like that.Not all Sox fans are like that either, but I doubt you'd ever see that qualifier.

And did anyone see Rick Morrissey's take on the incident? He is one angry, embarrassed Cubbie fan. So much so, he brings up Ligue/Dybas to point out that some Chicago fans are rotters. He does not mention one single Wrigley incident from the same span of time.

DrCrawdad
08-14-2009, 07:56 AM
After defusing the blame (Sox fans are worse photo-essay), time for an 'everything is beautiful in Wrigleyville' article. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-wrigley-cop-city-zoneaug14,0,1818208.story)

MISoxfan
08-14-2009, 07:59 AM
I was more reminded of the famous picture of Al Smith being doused by beer in 1959 World Series in Old Comiskey. Of course, that was accidental.

As a former journalist who doesn't live in the Chicago area, I think it's appropriate to talk about fan incidents throughout the city. In California, people lump all Chicago fans indents without regard of whether they occurred in American League or National League ballparks. Suggesting that such coverage is biased because you believe that the same incident at the Cell doesn't support your argument that the Tribune is biased against the White Sox.

I think that's why some of us believe these bias complaints are growing tiresome.

I disagree.

tebman
08-14-2009, 08:39 AM
After defusing the blame (Sox fans are worse photo-essay), time for an 'everything is beautiful in Wrigleyville' article. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-wrigley-cop-city-zoneaug14,0,1818208.story)

They just can't help themselves, can they? The Tribune, even in its bankrupt, emaciated condition can't stop propping up the value of its properties.

Several years ago we had a passionate and well-informed debate on here with George Knue, who was the Tribune's sports-website editor. He was offended by our suggestion that the Tribune shilled for the Cubs, arguing that the Tribune was utterly beyond reproach and was an absolute paragon of journalistic virtue.

I don't know if he still works there. So many have been laid off as the Tribune defaulted on its mortgage that he might have been swept up too. But this article extolling what a Swell Place that neighborhood is ignores a lot of ugly facts. This post (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=750915&postcount=68), which was one of many in that thread addressing the relative crime rates around the two ballparks, lists the numbers of crimes as recorded by the Chicago PD. "Wrigleyville" was far and away the more dangerous place.

I'm glad Officer Healy thinks Cub fans are okay. I'm also glad the Tribune reporter found a cop who was willing to say that, since I'm sure that will make it easier for him to keep his job at the paper.

Bah.

kittle42
08-14-2009, 09:06 AM
The Trib sucks.

On the bright side, the Sun-Times has a nice back-page and two-page feature on asshat Cub fans.

areilly
08-14-2009, 09:53 AM
The Trib sucks.

On the bright side, the Sun-Times has a nice back-page and two-page feature on asshat Cub fans.


It's as though a larger number of people viewing and participating in the news media enjoy the sporting and sporting-related exploits of the Chicago Cubs and wish to see that club portrayed in a positive light. I for one am horrified at this new development. If only there were some other means of acquiring my news. . . but what?

southside rocks
08-14-2009, 10:10 AM
I read both papers this morning -- I subscribe to the Sun-Times, and I found a Tribune on the train -- and yes, the coverage of the beer-throwing fan was very different.

1. The Trib relegated all mention of the incident to the sports section. This confuses me; isn't the arrest of someone for battery more than sports news? Isn't it part of the city crime blotter? The Sun-Times put a story on page 6 or 7, and more coverage in Sports. Made sense to me.

2. The Trib coverage was general, about bad conduct at baseball games in Chicago in years past; and the assault by the Ligues was mentioned several times. I fail to see what an incident, no matter how horrific, from 7 years ago has to do with Mr. Macho dumping a beer on Victorino two days ago and then lying about it. The Sun-Times didn't attempt to minimize Mr. Macho by mentioning the Ligues.

Bottom line: If a serial killer got loose on the field at the Cell and butchered players and coaches alike, it would not justify the routine conduct by many of the occupants of outfield seats at Wrigley, conduct that includes throwing all kinds of garbage onto the field at frequent intervals. How many times has a nationally televised White Sox game been halted so that debris thrown by fans can be cleared from the field? How many times for a Cubs game? I can think of several just in the last 3 years.

This jerk who doused Victorino and then didn't man up about it until his face was all over the internet is a pathetic loser, and he's not the only one of his kind to be found at Wrigley. Yeah, both teams draw some real asshats to the park; I contend that the Cubs draw more of that type of person. Ugh. Another reason I will never set foot in the crumbling, urine-soaked wreck that is Wrigley Field.

kittle42
08-14-2009, 10:16 AM
Bottom line: If a serial killer got loose on the field at the Cell and butchered players and coaches alike, it would not justify the routine conduct by many of the occupants of outfield seats at Wrigley, conduct that includes throwing all kinds of garbage onto the field at frequent intervals.

I suppose not, but if a serial killer got loose at a stadium and killed people on the field, it would kind of overshadow just about everything that has ever happened in terms of fan misconduct, like, ever.

areilly
08-14-2009, 10:18 AM
Bottom line: If a serial killer got loose on the field at the Cell and butchered players and coaches alike, it would not justify the routine conduct by many of the occupants of outfield seats at Wrigley, conduct that includes throwing all kinds of garbage onto the field at frequent intervals.

This hypothetical of yours is pretty extreme. A serial killer? Smaller news than an inconsequential Cubs broadcast put on hold for a few minutes? Seriously?

A serial killer. KILLer. What the hell is in WSI's coffee this morning?

Marqhead
08-14-2009, 10:20 AM
I suppose not, but if a serial killer got loose at a stadium and killed people on the field, it would kind of overshadow just about everything that has ever happened in terms of fan misconduct, like, ever.

I fear for the day a professional athlete is shot at, or killed in the United States while playing sports. Unfortunately, I feel that day is relatively close.

DumpJerry
08-14-2009, 10:25 AM
I wasn't debating that, either.

No one in this thread can read.
No one what?

Busted!!!!!!!:)

southside rocks
08-14-2009, 10:25 AM
This hypothetical of yours is pretty extreme. A serial killer? Smaller news than an inconsequential Cubs broadcast put on hold for a few minutes? Seriously?

A serial killer. KILLer. What the hell is in WSI's coffee this morning?

LOL! Okay, how about this: if a pack of crazed wildebeests got loose on the field at the Cell ...

No, I didn't mean that it would be smaller news than a beer-thrower. I meant, and it expressed it badly, that the routine behavior of "fans" at Wrigley is not okay just because the Ligues once beat the crap out of a coach at the Cell. The two types of incidents are not comparable. Of course the Ligues are worse. But that should not be the end of the matter when the fan conduct at Wrigley is the topic.

slavko
08-14-2009, 10:31 AM
LOL! Okay, how about this: if a pack of crazed wildebeests got loose on the field at the Cell ...

No, I didn't mean that it would be smaller news than a beer-thrower. I meant, and it expressed it badly, that the routine behavior of "fans" at Wrigley is not okay just because the Ligues once beat the crap out of a coach at the Cell. The two types of incidents are not comparable. Of course the Ligues are worse. But that should not be the end of the matter when the fan conduct at Wrigley is the topic.

Bringing up the Ligue bushwa to diffuse criticism works. Don't expect it to stop. Wildebeests are actually *****cats, except when they being chased by a very large *****cat.

rdwj
08-14-2009, 10:32 AM
I fear for the day a professional athlete is shot at, or killed in the United States while playing a sports. Unfortunately, I feel that day is relatively close.

Really, it amazing it hasn't happened yet

slavko
08-14-2009, 10:33 AM
Bringing up the Ligue bushwa to diffuse criticism works. Don't expect it to stop. Wildebeests are actually *****cats, except when they being chased by a very large *****cat.

LOL! My innocent reference to a household animal gets whacked! Furthest thing from my mind.

kittle42
08-14-2009, 10:45 AM
No one what?

Busted!!!!!!!

Debatable.

DumpJerry
08-14-2009, 10:48 AM
Debatable.
Hardly. Case closed.

russ99
08-14-2009, 11:15 AM
Despite the obvious Trib conflict of interest, I was very glad to see one media outlet, the Sun-Times, tell it like it is.

I also find it ironic that Crane Kenny made his statement of denial at the "Captain Morgan Club".

They have booze at every ballpark, but only one has it so ingrained into their culture, that such random acts of drunken idiocy are tolerated. And this is also the club that also talks down Bradley and Zambrano's hissy fits as "being competitive", so they're hypocrates all around. I guess acting like a jackass is "The Cubbie Way".

Lip Man 1
08-14-2009, 01:35 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/hayes/1716093,CST-SPT-neil14.article

Lip

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-14-2009, 02:54 PM
Lemme ask you this: Which set of "recent" events is closer to the past actions of the fanbase, The Cubs or The Sox?

kittle42
08-14-2009, 03:07 PM
The Trib can easily bury the story after today. After all, the Pirates - the annual playoff welcome mat for the Cubs - are in town. Oh, and look, it's 17-2 in the 5th!

TDog
08-14-2009, 03:08 PM
Really, it amazing it hasn't happened yet

And if it happened to an underachieving Chicago player under a huge multiyear contract, I would expect conspiracy theories insisting ownership ordered the hit.

areilly
08-14-2009, 05:10 PM
And if it happened to an underachieving Chicago player under a huge multiyear contract, I would expect conspiracy theories insisting ownership ordered the hit.

Fonzie? Bradley? Rios? Linebrink? I'm not sure if you're making fun of us or them.

DrCrawdad
08-14-2009, 09:02 PM
They just can't help themselves, can they? The Tribune, even in its bankrupt, emaciated condition can't stop propping up the value of its properties.

Several years ago we had a passionate and well-informed debate on here with George Knue, who was the Tribune's sports-website editor. He was offended by our suggestion that the Tribune shilled for the Cubs, arguing that the Tribune was utterly beyond reproach and was an absolute paragon of journalistic virtue.

I don't know if he still works there. So many have been laid off as the Tribune defaulted on its mortgage that he might have been swept up too. But this article extolling what a Swell Place that neighborhood is ignores a lot of ugly facts. This post (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=750915&postcount=68), which was one of many in that thread addressing the relative crime rates around the two ballparks, lists the numbers of crimes as recorded by the Chicago PD. "Wrigleyville" was far and away the more dangerous place.

I'm glad Officer Healy thinks Cub fans are okay. I'm also glad the Tribune reporter found a cop who was willing to say that, since I'm sure that will make it easier for him to keep his job at the paper.

Bah.

Where are the pictures of the dozens of times Cubbie fans have interrupted games because of tossing garbage on the field?

Where are the pictures of the strapping Jacque Jones having a ball whiz by his head?

Imagine the response IF this happened at The Cell and Sox management sole response was to talk about all the things that have happened at Wrigley?