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Viva Magglio
06-06-2002, 04:41 PM
Did we need to pinch hit Jeff Liefer? This is not the National League.

doublem23
06-06-2002, 04:43 PM
You're kidding, right?

If Liefer had gotten that run in, we'd all be praising him for that move... Sheesh.. Cut the guy some slack.

duke of dorwood
06-06-2002, 04:44 PM
I dont argue with that move

MarqSox
06-06-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
You're kidding, right?

If Liefer had gotten that run in, we'd all be praising him for that move... Sheesh.. Cut the guy some slack.

Well put. Jerry couldn't have known Liefer wasn't going to move the bat from his shoulders. If he hadn't made the switch and Rowand had struck out, somebody would have jumped on him for not making a lefty-righty switch. As hard as it is for some people here to believe, it's not always Jerry's fault when the players screw up.

Jerry_Manuel
06-06-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
You're kidding, right?

If Liefer had gotten that run in, we'd all be praising him for that move... Sheesh.. Cut the guy some slack.

Good call. People complain when he doesn't use the bench, and when he does. Can't win with some people.

FarWestChicago
06-06-2002, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Did we need to pinch hit Jeff Liefer? This is not the National League. Has kenblanks hacked your account?

doublem23
06-06-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Good call. People complain when he doesn't use the bench, and when he does. Can't win with some people.

Exactly!

If Rowand had batted and struck out, we'd all be bitching about how JM didn't use Liefer...

Sheesh.. I'll admit JM isn't the greatest manager ever, but cut the guy some slack. He's not clairvoyant.

RKMeibalane
06-06-2002, 05:09 PM
Jerry did what he thought was best for that particular situation. Liefer has been struggling, but Manuel couldn't have predicted that he wouldn't be smart enough to swing at that thrid-strike pitch, which happened to be in the same spot as the previous one, which was also called a strike. Liefer screwed up, not Manuel.

Besides, part of the reason Jeff has been struggling this season is because he hasn't gotten anywhere near as much playing time as he did last season, when Thomas was out. Even though the Sox were losing, Manuel may have thought he should get Liefer another at-bat or two. There's nothing wrong with trying to help someone who is struggling. It's not as if Rowand was going to hit another homerun.

baggio202
06-06-2002, 07:34 PM
liefer was the right choice in that situation....you guys rag on the outcome of manuel's moves and not whats going on at the time they are made...he went with the lefty righty match up...when he doesnt do that you b*tch..when he does you b*tch...

btw..liefer is hitting .500 as a pinch hitter this season...1.000 before that at bat....that might be the problem...its june and manuel is finally managing by the book..had he done this from day one..liefer would be up to 10 -12 pinch hit at bats and would have been in much better shape to come through...

ive been on manuel for not using the bench late in games..today he did..as a matter of fact since clayton was removed from the starters role jerry has done much better with pinch hitting...sometimes even the right moves dont work out..

if manuel left in rowand and he struck out..how many people would be saying why didnt he pinch hit with liefer..i would be...if your gonna pick his moves apart..be consistent...just dont look at results..

Tragg
06-06-2002, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Did we need to pinch hit Jeff Liefer? This is not the National League.

I think manuel managed this game pretty well. He actually used pinch hitters.

Why he refused to use them for the first 2 months is another question.

Viva Magglio
06-06-2002, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
You're kidding, right?

If Liefer had gotten that run in, we'd all be praising him for that move... Sheesh.. Cut the guy some slack.

I would have gone with Rowand. If Rowand failed like Liefer did, I would have been disappointed but accepted it. This was merely an example of Jerry Manuel always playing the percentages. He manages by the book too much and rarely goes with a gut feeling. If you live by the book, you die by the book.

WinningUgly!
06-06-2002, 10:40 PM
Ok this is starting to get real old. Every time somebody strikes out, JM is an idiot? Leifer hitting for Rowand was the right move to make, end of story. Leifer simply didn't get the job done. How is this Jerry Manuel's fault? Has Aaron Rowand suddenly become such a force in the league that he's earned the right to face a dominant closer in the 9th? Hell no! I'm not saying I agree with everything that JM does & I'm certainly not about to blindly follow & defend all of his decisions. The guy has the hand he's been dealt to play with. Rowand & Liefer are just 2 role players in that hand. How can you rip him for this?

MarqSox
06-06-2002, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Ok this is starting to get real old. Every time somebody strikes out, JM is an idiot? Leifer hitting for Rowand was the right move to make, end of story. Leifer simply didn't get the job done. How is this Jerry Manuel's fault? Has Aaron Rowand suddenly become such a force in the league that he's earned the right to face a dominant closer in the 9th? Hell no! I'm not saying I agree with everything that JM does & I'm certainly not about to blindly follow & defend all of his decisions. The guy has the hand he's been dealt to play with. Rowand & Liefer are just 2 role players in that hand. How can you rip him for this?

Bingo.

Nellie_Fox
06-07-2002, 02:54 AM
Where's the love for pinch hitting for Royce?

doublem23
06-07-2002, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!


I would have gone with Rowand. If Rowand failed like Liefer did, I would have been disappointed but accepted it. This was merely an example of Jerry Manuel always playing the percentages. He manages by the book too much and rarely goes with a gut feeling. If you live by the book, you die by the book.

And I'm sure you wouldn't be the first in line to bitch and moan when one of Jerry's "gut feelings" went wrong.

DrWatson27
06-07-2002, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Where's the love for pinch hitting for Royce?

He should have pinch-hit WITH "Choice".