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View Full Version : Dye Wants To Finish His Career Here.


Thome25
08-11-2009, 04:18 AM
Right on the heels of the Rios pickup, Dye says he really wants to finish his career as a White Sox. Pods has also said that he wants to return as well.

I LOVE the Rios pickup but, I'm also hoping that Dye gets his wish and Pods also returns for another season or two. These guys are not only World Series heroes but, they love being with the White Sox and we as fans love having them as well.

I just hope that these new contracts (Peavy and Rios) won't hamper our ability to keep Pods and Dye.

Heres the link:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1710180,CST-SPT-ssep11.article

GregO23
08-11-2009, 04:44 AM
Sign Dye to a 2 year, 17 million and Pods to a 1 year, 1.5 million to be our 4th and I'm down. That's of course if we sign Figgins for a 3 year at 21 million to be our LF:D:

soxyess
08-11-2009, 08:00 AM
Dye and Pods should both be gone next year. Dye is 36 and Pods 35. Dye has been brutal since the All-Star break, and his swing has dramatically slowed down. Pods has had a nice year, but he is beginning to slump. Age is a factor. Both are over 35. We need to get younger. Dye says he'll give a hometown discount because he realizes that his skills are beginning to diminish, and he will not be able to secure a lucrative contract on the open market.

DeuceUnit
08-11-2009, 08:08 AM
I see nothing wrong with Dye as DH, Pods in left, Rios center and TCQ in right next year. If you DH Dye it helps keep him from getting worn down as much throughout the year. I'm really exctied about next year...with our recent performance, even more than this year.

Law11
08-11-2009, 08:10 AM
There are so many variables in this whole thing. Is Quentin going to DH next year if we dont resign Thome? Its a possibility. Then You move pods to left Rios to Center and resign Dye who can then DH or play some RF. You have pieces to move around but somebody will be gone. Thome or Dye. I can see them resigning Pods and float him in LF and Cf next year.

Its a nice problem to have anyway you cut it. Rios is a player that we needed badly. I mean from Wise/ BA/ Pods to a proven All-Star outifielder.

Its a business. And this team is old and slow. Im not saying ditc all the big bats but somebody wont be here next year.

hawkjt
08-11-2009, 08:14 AM
Kenny has the exact right answer here...just win. If they win, people tend to be retained. If they lose, people tend to go away. JD is 12 for his last 81 at bats over the last 20 games....that is .140 something...in the beginning of the stretch drive. I have loved him as a player,but if he does not pick it up very soon, the answer will be obvious. At his age, at his money,as a FA, you cannot afford a poor second half.
Pods is slipping a bit also, but if he plays well, can assure himself a spot next year,if he finishes strong. If he tails off, then the first half looks like a fluke at his age. It is in their hands.

Marqhead
08-11-2009, 08:21 AM
Sign Dye to a 2 year, 17 million and Pods to a 1 year, 1.5 million to be our 4th and I'm down. That's of course if we sign Figgins for a 3 year at 21 million to be our LF:D:

You want Figgins in LF? :scratch: I'd rather see him at 3rd.

I would love Dye to hang around as the fulltime DH.

hawkjt
08-11-2009, 08:32 AM
In his last 6 games,Rios is hitting .333 with 9 rbi's.
That is better than any of our current outfielders in the last week, I know that.
Maybe Rios can spark some competition between outfielders?

EMel9281
08-11-2009, 08:32 AM
My only concern with letting Thome go is that we become a severely right-handed lineup. We have no power LH bats when you subtract Thome, and potentially 3 in the lineup with Pods, Getz, and AJ. Is that good enough for our lineup? I love the acquisition of Rios, as I feel that he will solidify the blackhole otherwise known as CF for the Sox for years to come. But, what is the expense of getting this done?

kellykid
08-11-2009, 08:34 AM
Maybe Rios can spark some competition between outfielders?

I'm hoping this move is the kick in the pants that these guys need right now. Don't wanna see Dye go, but.....

Taliesinrk
08-11-2009, 08:35 AM
You want Figgins in LF? :scratch: I'd rather see him at 3rd.

I would love Dye to hang around as the fulltime DH.

Yeah.. I agree. I doubt this happens, but you could see it playing out as:

C - AJ
1B - PK
2B -Getz/Ramirez
SS -Flash
3B -Figgins
LF - Pods
CF - Rios
RF - TCQ
DH - JD

Retain Kotsay who can DH/1B/OF and you've got a pretty solid rotation going on there.

Then, you move Getz/Ramirez?? for a bullpen piece and sign at least one more FA BP guy. I think that'd make the only hole left the 5th starter (unless Freddy has a miracle comeback/someone in-house steps up <-- I'd really rather avoid our 5th starter problems we've had this year, however). I don't even know what'd be left... backup catcher?


I also find it interesting that articles like the suntimes one imply that it's almost a foregone conclusion that either Dye AND?/or Pods is gone. I would even venture a guess Pods would deal with a 4th OF job here being familiar with the Sox and knowing Ozzie loves to shuffle those lineups around.

Domeshot17
08-11-2009, 08:39 AM
We will have to see, I personally love the idea of a 4 man rotation of Quentin Pods Dye and Rios. I think with the Age of Dye and Pods and the Injury history of Quentin, getting all these guys solid rotation and collectively 450 at bats each will keep them fresh late into the season.

I will say to the pods has slumped qoute, Yes, he isn't hitting .300 anymore, but .286 with a 342 OBP if that is a slump, I'll take pods until he retires.

The great thing about Pods is (1) He looks like he figured out how to take care of his body and thusfar [knock on wood] hasn't seemed impacted by the little nagging injuries that used to bring him down. (2) Because he hasn't played much of that last few seasons, he really doesn't have the normal milage of a normal 35 year old.

Thusfar JD has had his handshake agreement, then his break the bank deal. If he wants to finish his career here I would give him a 2 year, 13 million dollar deal with a 3rd year 7 mil option.

I don't know about Thome and what he will take. We need a left handed hitter, and truthfully I would rather keep PK and replace Dye with a Left Hander instead of vice versa. Dye has just looked really old and really tired the last month.

Taliesinrk
08-11-2009, 08:49 AM
Thusfar JD has had his handshake agreement, then his break the bank deal. If he wants to finish his career here I would give him a 2 year, 13 million dollar deal with a 3rd year 7 mil option.

I don't know about Thome and what he will take. We need a left handed hitter, and truthfully I would rather keep PK and replace Dye with a Left Hander instead of vice versa. Dye has just looked really old and really tired the last month.

Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but aren't you contradicting yourself there? Are you saying you would try to re-sign Dye? Or you'd let him walk and get a LH bat to replace him?

The Dude
08-11-2009, 08:51 AM
Dye and Pods should both be gone next year. Dye is 36 and Pods 35. Dye has been brutal since the All-Star break, and his swing has dramatically slowed down. Pods has had a nice year, but he is beginning to slump. Age is a factor. Both are over 35. We need to get younger. Dye says he'll give a hometown discount because he realizes that his skills are beginning to diminish, and he will not be able to secure a lucrative contract on the open market.

Agreed. When people keep bringing up 2005 heroes as a reason to keep someone, it just isn't smart baseball. I too am so grateful for 2005 and the stuff these guys did but seriously, Dye has got to go. This Rios pickup looks great in my eyes and for the future with Carlos in left. Regardless if Dye is here or not next year, I will be shocked if he is still playing the butcher in RF.

Pods has been solid this year, but how much does he have left? Also a HORRIBLE fielder. We cannot afford any worse defense than what we have. The Perfect Game by Buehrle was a miracle.

Thome is the one here that people just assume will be gone. I think he has a decent chance to stay if they let go Dye, otherwise Dye will have to be DH.

Domeshot17
08-11-2009, 08:52 AM
Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but aren't you contradicting yourself there? Are you saying you would try to re-sign Dye? Or you'd let him walk and get a LH bat to replace him?

Sorry I did without meaning too. I wouldn't keep Dye personally, but if we do, I would want it at a big time reduced cost.

palehozenychicty
08-11-2009, 09:04 AM
Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but aren't you contradicting yourself there? Are you saying you would try to re-sign Dye? Or you'd let him walk and get a LH bat to replace him?


I was thinking the same thing. :scratch:

I love JD, but we need him to step up soon.

parlaycard
08-11-2009, 09:08 AM
Pods has had a nice year, but he is beginning to slump. .


He is? I dont know how you figure he is slumping. I dont know whether youre looking from week to week, or game to game, but over the last month (7/11-8/10) his average has gone from .302 to .297, pretty steady. His slugging % went from .388 to .390 and his OBP went from .358 to .351. Very steady numbers. 4 stolen bases, 22 runs scored and 11 RBI over the past month.

Pretty good for a guy picked up off the scrap heap who is your catylist leading off.

I think everyone is down on him because of the error in Minnesota.

kellykid
08-11-2009, 09:10 AM
I'm just wondering, how do you think the loss of Dye, Thome or Pods would affect the "chemistry" of the team? While I know talent is of utmost importance, I think chemistry plays a role also.

MARTINMVP
08-11-2009, 09:25 AM
Kenny has the exact right answer here...just win. If they win, people tend to be retained. If they lose, people tend to go away. JD is 12 for his last 81 at bats over the last 20 games....that is .140 something...in the beginning of the stretch drive. I have loved him as a player,but if he does not pick it up very soon, the answer will be obvious. At his age, at his money,as a FA, you cannot afford a poor second half.
Pods is slipping a bit also, but if he plays well, can assure himself a spot next year,if he finishes strong. If he tails off, then the first half looks like a fluke at his age. It is in their hands.

You are absolutely correct. It would be a nice feel good story for Dye and you want to establish some loyalty... if not for Dye individually, then at least for the sake of good PR... being loyal to loyal players. But the business side can not be ignored and especially if Dye produces less and less, is there really an upside to him being there next year? I sound like an ass but if the Sox did dump him, it's not like his life is ruined. He had a great career and a World Series and its a lot more than many people could ever ask for who never make it to the big leagues. The 49ers did it to Joe Montana... such is life.

We are unfortunately in a new era (maybe it's not so new anymore) where staying with one team for the long-term is very unlikely.

soxfanreggie
08-11-2009, 10:00 AM
I can see us retaining one of these guys, but I'm not sure about both based on what contracts I think they could get. I believe it will ultimately be up to them deciding if they want to take some big hometown discounts (giving us an OF of Pods-Rios-TCQ, Dye at DH and a back-up OF) and if Ozzie and Kenny want our power hitters to all be RH. If we keep them, it's worth looking at keeping Kotsay (cheap deal) because he can be the back-up 1B/5th OF/fill-in DH.

I wouldn't do more than a 2-year deal for either of them because of their age and potential for decline as they get older. Pods also has an injury history, and I'm not sure if I could see him playing a full year next year, albeit two full years. Maybe if he is given a more than average number of games off where he is available for pinch running, then he might be more likely to stay healthy.

I do like that we have players who are willing to take discounts to play here. I think a lot of players will see what we're building and want to come here and play.

khan
08-11-2009, 10:03 AM
Dye and Pods should both be gone next year. Dye is 36 and Pods 35. Dye has been brutal since the All-Star break, and his swing has dramatically slowed down. Pods has had a nice year, but he is beginning to slump. Age is a factor. Both are over 35. We need to get younger. Dye says he'll give a hometown discount because he realizes that his skills are beginning to diminish, and he will not be able to secure a lucrative contract on the open market.


Let's get it right:
Pods was born on 18 March 1976, so that makes him 33 now, and 34 on Opening Day next season.
Dye was born on 28 January 1974, so that makes him 35 now, and 36 on Opening Day next season.
IMO, given the dearth of other options within the organization for OF, one, if not BOTH need to be back next season. Even with the downturn in the economy, I doubt that free agents from outside the organization will come as cheap as [certainly] Podsednik and [possibly] Dye will come, for players with like-numbers.

While I agree that the team needs to get younger, there simply aren't any other options in the organization. After adding millions to the payroll, I doubt that Chairman Jerry will sign off on YET MORE free agent spending this offseason to supplement the OF. [EDIT: Bear in mind the raises that are due to extant players, like Jenks, and the need to find a 5th starter, and the possibility of needing to replace Dotel.] At the same time, we'd be looking at an OF of Quentin-Rios-Wise in 2010, unless JR OKs more spending.

slavko
08-11-2009, 10:49 AM
You want Figgins in LF? :scratch: I'd rather see him at 3rd.

I would love Dye to hang around as the fulltime DH.

I was thinking the same thing. :scratch:

I love JD, but we need him to step up soon.

Dye has enough time left in the season to tell us what our next move should be. If he can't come out of his funk, he can't DH and we'd be throwing the $$ away. I love the guy, we all do, he's managerial material, but business is business.

Thome is old and slow and this would be a great time to sever connections. Do you expect him to maintian this level of production forever? Pods should not be in the outfield if we're looking for defense and we need to look for defense. He'd be a unique DH. It's a great opportunity to change the team and we need to think in a different direction.

soltrain21
08-11-2009, 10:52 AM
While I agree we should maybe keep both of them in some capacity - saying that they are World Series heroes has nothing to do with it. That was a few years ago and is completely irrelevant.

Curt Schilling is a World Series hero, too. Do you want him?

soxfanreggie
08-11-2009, 10:54 AM
Slavko, I have to disagree. I think Thome has at least one more season in him, and I doubt he gets much slower next year than he is now (he's slow, a lot of DH's are). We didn't bring him in to steal bases or beat out drag bunts. Pods, Dye, and Thome won't all be back. You have to at least explore keeping Thome for the power LH stick.

soxyess
08-11-2009, 11:10 AM
You cannot allow blind loyalty to cloud your judgment. Dye has been great without him we dont win in 05, but he is slowing down and wearing down. Id be shocked if he gets anything more than a one year deal worth between 3-6 mil. The post steroid era trend in baseball for players over 35 is going to be one year deals. Kenny thinks big, if Carl Crawford is available, Kenny will go after him hard. I could see KW going after a Melky Cabrera type player who is young, has upside, and can play the entire outfield.

slavko
08-11-2009, 11:25 AM
Slavko, I have to disagree. I think Thome has at least one more season in him, and I doubt he gets much slower next year than he is now (he's slow, a lot of DH's are). We didn't bring him in to steal bases or beat out drag bunts. Pods, Dye, and Thome won't all be back. You have to at least explore keeping Thome for the power LH stick.

Maybe. Your biggest risk in looking for another LH bat is the possible loss of one year of Thome at the current level of play. It's not a huge deal either way.

LoveYourSuit
08-11-2009, 11:36 AM
You want Figgins in LF? :scratch: I'd rather see him at 3rd.

I would love Dye to hang around as the fulltime DH.


Agree.


Figgins to 3B and Gordon to SS.

Alexei? Either to a corner OF position or dangle him for a trade. I don't want him in the IF next season. Also have questions about Getz.

You get Figgins in here, there is no need for Pods.

KMcMahon817
08-11-2009, 11:37 AM
You cannot allow blind loyalty to cloud your judgment. Dye has been great without him we dont win in 05, but he is slowing down and wearing down. Id be shocked if he gets anything more than a one year deal worth between 3-6 mil. The post steroid era trend in baseball for players over 35 is going to be one year deals. Kenny thinks big, if Carl Crawford is available, Kenny will go after him hard. I could see KW going after a Melky Cabrera type player who is young, has upside, and can play the entire outfield.

Oh, how quickly the minds of fans can be changed. Just three weeks ago people were estimating Dye's next contract in the 10-12 Mill. range. The man was absolutely snubbed from the all star game, and had an excellent first half. While I am not defending him for his horrid play the past few weeks (both at the plate and in the field), JD is just in a funk. He'll come out of it, and the Rios acqusition will only help. It may light a fire under his ass, and will give him a day or two off a week, keeping him fresh.

Marqhead
08-11-2009, 11:38 AM
Agree.


Figgins to 3B and Gordon to SS.

Alexei? Either to a corner OF position or dangle him for a trade. I don't want him in the IF next season. Also have questions about Getz.

You get Figgins in here, there is no need for Pods.

I think you can slot Alexei back at 2B if you get Figgins. I know that his defense isn't stellar, but I think he's more valuable at 2B.

dwalteroo
08-11-2009, 11:39 AM
What if Kenny keeps Dye and moves him to 1B? Konerko has been uncharacteristically consistent all season and his contract is reasonable - that's a potential trade. I think Kenny is keeping all his options open.

Me, I love Jim Thome but I'd rather keep Dye.

Marqhead
08-11-2009, 11:41 AM
What if Kenny keeps Dye and moves him to 1B? Konerko has been uncharacteristically consistent all season and his contract is reasonable - that's a potential trade. I think Kenny is keeping all his options open.

Me, I love Jim Thome but I'd rather keep Dye.

I'm not sure why people think that Dye can play first base. He has never before in his career, why would you want to try them there now of all times?

Konerko is staying at first. Without injuries the offense is there, and he is above average on D.

KMcMahon817
08-11-2009, 11:45 AM
Agree.


Figgins to 3B and Gordon to SS.

Alexei? Either to a corner OF position or dangle him for a trade. I don't want him in the IF next season. Also have questions about Getz.

You get Figgins in here, there is no need for Pods.


All I can do is laugh at you for this comment. He was the runner up for the Rookie of the Year award last year, and some even feel he should have won that. And, on top of that, it's not like he's having a brutal season. Since when is .273/.329/.403 production with 12 long ones and 50 rbi's 110 games in something to frown at out of your shortstop? Alexei is a great shortstop. There is no reason to fix what isn't broken. Sure, he has had some bone head plays, but those are only going to decrease as he becomes more comfortable there. Alexei isn't going anywhere. :rolleyes:

Marqhead
08-11-2009, 11:47 AM
All I can do is laugh at you for this comment. He was the runner up for the Rookie of the Year award last year, and some even feel he should have won that. And, on top of that, it's not like he's having a brutal season. Since when is .273/.329/.403 production with 12 long ones and 50 rbi's 110 games in something to frown at out of your shortstop? Alexei is a great shortstop. There is no reason to fix what isn't broken. Sure, he has had some bone head plays, but those are only going to decrease as he becomes more comfortable there. Alexei isn't going anywhere. :rolleyes:


His offensive numbers aren't what worry most people. I agree that LYS's comment is over the top, but Alexei's defensive struggles have been no secret this year. Still, I think with the production you can get out of him when he's going good (as we've seen this year and last) makes his a valuable middle infielder.

PorkChopExpress
08-11-2009, 11:50 AM
I like Thome, but while he provides a power LH bat, he is ONLY a DH. If you keep Dye as your primary DH, he can still play the OF (or 1B, I guess) when you want to give some other guys a rest without taking them out of the game entirely. Paul can DH and Dye can play 1B, Quentin can DH and Dye can play RF, etc. Having a DH who can fill in other spots in the field is valuable. Like I said, I like Thome, but he is one-dimensional at this point and that can hinder a manager, especially one like Ozzie who seems to like to give bench guys regular work and rest his regulars.

LoveYourSuit
08-11-2009, 11:51 AM
All I can do is laugh at you for this comment. He was the runner up for the Rookie of the Year award last year, and some even feel he should have won that. And, on top of that, it's not like he's having a brutal season. Since when is .273/.329/.403 production with 12 long ones and 50 rbi's 110 games in something to frown at out of your shortstop? Alexei is a great shortstop. There is no reason to fix what isn't broken. Sure, he has had some bone head plays, but those are only going to decrease as he becomes more comfortable there. Alexei isn't going anywhere. :rolleyes:


Yeah. OK.:rolleyes:

Let his stats and his imaginary ROY award blind you of what a crappy defender he is at SS. In addition to making Juan Uribe look like a smart baseball player. Alexei is a very dumb player and has no clue what situational hitting is.

gobears1987
08-11-2009, 11:52 AM
Dye should stay as I feel we need to get away from having a DH who can only DH. It has to kill Ozzie to have a DH who can't even play first base. Thome's back has been a problem the last few years and he has had to have at least 1 day a week off (sometimes more) when he's only DHing because of fears that his back will flair up again. I really like Thome, but we need flexibility. Dye provides that as he is more than a 1 dimensional player. Besides, given age, which player is more likely to decline next year?

I love Thome and he's a great guy, but Dye just makes more sense from a baseball perspective. He's a DH who can play RF and even be an emergency infield back-up (remember the Oakland game in 2005 when Hunter bleeping Wendelstedt went on a power trip?)

KMcMahon817
08-11-2009, 12:02 PM
Yeah. OK.:rolleyes:

Let his stats and his imaginary ROY award blind you of what a crappy defender he is at SS. In addition to making Juan Uribe look like a smart baseball player. Alexei is a very dumb player and has no clue what situational hitting is.

Of the shortstops in the AL who have played more than 85 games at short, he ranks 6th in fielding %. That is not a crappy defender. That is the definition of average. And you'd be an idiot to claim that he doesn't get to alot of balls that other SS don't, thus adding to his error total. This is totally off subject to the thread though, so I am going to stop at that.

Lorenzo Barcelo
08-11-2009, 12:13 PM
Of the shortstops in the AL who have played more than 85 games at short, he ranks 6th in fielding %. That is not a crappy defender. That is the definition of average. And you'd be an idiot to claim that he doesn't get to alot of balls that other SS don't, thus adding to his error total. This is totally off subject to the thread though, so I am going to stop at that.

You can't go by fielding % necessarily. How about cutting balls off he shouldn't be, not being able to stop balls on steal attempts because he gets there too late, or simply can't keep the ball in front of him. How about when he bare hands slow rollers when he doesn't have to. None of these mental blunders will show up on his fielding percentage.

Konerko05
08-11-2009, 12:24 PM
There are a lot of ways this outfield/DH situation could play out next season. The only definite will be Rios in CF.

RF- Dye
CF- Rios
LF- Quentin
DH- Thome

RF- Quentin
CF- Rios
LF- Podsednik
DH- Dye

RF- Quentin
CF- Rios
LF- Podsednik
DH- Thome

RF- Dye
CF- Rios
LF- Podsednik
DH- Quentin

There is also the possibility Dye, Thome, and Podsednik could be gone next season and the Sox could look outside the organization for replacements.

KMcMahon817
08-11-2009, 12:28 PM
You can't go by fielding % necessarily. How about cutting balls off he shouldn't be, not being able to stop balls on steal attempts because he gets there too late, or simply can't keep the ball in front of him. How about when he bare hands slow rollers when he doesn't have to. None of these mental blunders will show up on his fielding percentage.

I agree. I never said he was a great SS. I said he was a good shortstop, and there is no need to fix what isn't broken. He is only going to improve, but he does need to pull his head out of his ass.

scobalt
08-11-2009, 12:44 PM
There are a lot of ways this outfield/DH situation could play out next season. The only definite will be Rios in CF.

RF- Dye
CF- Rios
LF- Quentin
DH- Thome

RF- Quentin
CF- Rios
LF- Podsednik
DH- Dye

RF- Quentin
CF- Rios
LF- Podsednik
DH- Thome

RF- Dye
CF- Rios
LF- Podsednik
DH- Quentin

There is also the possibility Dye, Thome, and Podsednik could be gone next season and the Sox could look outside the organization for replacements.


There is no way that Quentin can play RF. He just doesn't have the arm/defensive skills. If he is out there, we are going to see a lot worse defense than we are seeing this year.

Red Barchetta
08-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Yeah. OK.:rolleyes:

Let his stats and his imaginary ROY award blind you of what a crappy defender he is at SS. In addition to making Juan Uribe look like a smart baseball player. Alexei is a very dumb player and has no clue what situational hitting is.

...that's why I think they should move Beckham back to SS and move Alexi back to 2B and bat him ninth. I like the idea of our 9th guy having the abilility to hit 20+ HRs. As to 3B, how far away is the latest Cuban sensation we signed? I haven't heard much about him lately...

Lillian
08-11-2009, 01:01 PM
The whole point of keeping Thome over Dye would be to retain the services of left handed bat. It is very interesting and revealing to note that this year, Dye's stats are comparable to Thome's vs. right handed pitching!!

J. Dye Avg. .278 OBP .345 SLG .527 HR 19 2B 11 RBI 49
Thome Avg .256 OBP .392 SLG .512 HR 16 2B 7 RBI 47

That pretty much refutes the one advantage of retaining Thome over Dye. I think it should be a matter of the money. If Dye will take less than the amount specified in the option, and if it is less than what it would cost to retain Thome, I personally prefer Dye.

Whitesoxfan23
08-11-2009, 01:23 PM
The whole point of keeping Thome over Dye would be to retain the services of left handed bat. It is very interesting and revealing to note that this year, Dye's stats are comparable to Thome's vs. right handed pitching!!

J. Dye Avg. .278 OBP .345 SLG .527 HR 19 2B 11 RBI 49
Thome Avg .256 OBP .392 SLG .512 HR 16 2B 7 RBI 47

That pretty much refutes the one advantage of retaining Thome over Dye. I think it should be a matter of the money. If Dye will take less than the amount specified in the option, and if it is less than what it would cost to retain Thome, I personally prefer Dye.


I just don't like the idea of us being such a right handed lineup.

asindc
08-11-2009, 01:38 PM
There is no way that Quentin can play RF. He just doesn't have the arm/defensive skills. If he is out there, we are going to see a lot worse defense than we are seeing this year.

He came up as a RF with Arizona and was traded here as such. The only reason he didn't play RF last year was because Dye was entrenched at that position. He will have to readjust, but I think it is too soon to say he absolutely cannot play RF.

Konerko05
08-11-2009, 01:49 PM
There is no way that Quentin can play RF. He just doesn't have the arm/defensive skills. If he is out there, we are going to see a lot worse defense than we are seeing this year.

I'm not sure if Quentin can play RF adaquately either. I also didn't think Jerry Owens, Rob Mackowiak, Ken Griffey Jr., Scott Podsednik could play CF adaquately. My list is possibilities Guillen/Williams could use next year. Since this organization doesn't care about OF defense, Quentin in RF is a possibility.

Quentin used to play above average RF in the DBacks organization. Injuries have seemed to taken a toll on his legs and arm, but most of his problems in LF seem to be reading the ball off the bat. RF has a much better angle on balls coming off the bat from RH hitters.

LoveYourSuit
08-11-2009, 01:55 PM
I just don't like the idea of us being such a right handed lineup.


I think that's another over-used myth.

How did getting a LH stick go for Sweet Lou and the Cubs?

You can win without a premier power stick from the Left side.

The Sox did it in '05.

Keep the best player that can do the most for you. Dye >>>> Thome.

asindc
08-11-2009, 02:13 PM
I'm not sure if Quentin can play RF adaquately either. I also didn't think Jerry Owens, Rob Mackowiak, Ken Griffey Jr., Scott Podsednik could play CF adaquately. My list is possibilities Guillen/Williams could use next year. Since this organization doesn't care about OF defense, Quentin in RF is a possibility.

Quentin used to play above average RF in the DBacks organization. Injuries have seemed to taken a toll on his legs and arm, but most of his problems in LF seem to be reading the ball off the bat. RF has a much better angle on balls coming off the bat from RH hitters.

I hear what you're saying, and the Rios transaction proves it.

the gooch
08-11-2009, 02:14 PM
I just don't like the idea of us being such a right handed lineup.
I think that's another over-used myth.

How did getting a LH stick go for Sweet Lou and the Cubs?

You can win without a premier power stick from the Left side.

The Sox did it in '05.

Keep the best player that can do the most for you. Dye >>>> Thome.I'm with you LoveYourSuit. I'll also add that the shift on Thome has taken its toll on me.

And more importantly: 2010 Dye >>>> 2010 Thome

35th and Shields
08-11-2009, 02:16 PM
I think that's another over-used myth.

How did getting a LH stick go for Sweet Lou and the Cubs?

You can win without a premier power stick from the Left side.

The Sox did it in '05.

Keep the best player that can do the most for you. Dye >>>> Thome.

I couldn't agree more with you.

khan
08-11-2009, 02:26 PM
How did getting a LH stick go for Sweet Lou and the Cubs?

This is simply more proof that Jim Hendry is a clown. Even a blind, drunk monkey could've seen that Milton Bradley's splits as a LH batter suck ass. Even a drunk, mouthbreathing moron at The Urinal could've seen that Bradley's never been a durable player.

The scrubs' problems have little to do with adding a LH bat. Their problems include a GM who wasted money like a moron, causing them to be inflexible in terms of salaries, some injuries, and a manager who looks like he's already mentally checked out.

LH/RH balance is a good thing to have. Don't let one of the most craptacular GMs in MLB distort this fact.

35th and Shields
08-11-2009, 02:36 PM
If Thome could put up the same numbers as Dye then yes, you take Thome but it's probably not going to happen. Dye hits lefties and righties better then Thome and can hit for both power and average.

I'd rather have a more balanced lineup then forcing myself to put a power lefty in when you have better options.

LoveYourSuit
08-11-2009, 02:38 PM
This is simply more proof that Jim Hendry is a clown. Even a blind, drunk monkey could've seen that Milton Bradley's splits as a LH batter suck ass. Even a drunk, mouthbreathing moron at The Urinal could've seen that Bradley's never been a durable player.

The scrubs' problems have little to do with adding a LH bat. Their problems include a GM who wasted money like a moron, causing them to be inflexible in terms of salaries, some injuries, and a manager who looks like he's already mentally checked out.

LH/RH balance is a good thing to have. Don't let one of the most craptacular GMs in MLB distort this fact.

It's a luxury to have.

But if you give me to pick between my only two options of Dye or Thome, I have to go with the better player and the guy who can do more for me for 162 games.

Thome sits against most LH pitchers and doesn't play interleague games.

Now if you dump both and find an adequate LH stick out there (Adam Dunn), now you have me sold.

Konerko05
08-11-2009, 02:39 PM
RHH Jermaine Dye- .852 OPS
LHH Jim Thome- .889 OPS

LoveYourSuit
08-11-2009, 02:48 PM
RHH Jermaine Dye- .852 OPS
LHH Jim Thome- .889 OPS



Dye - Games on the field = +145
Thome - Games on the field = 0

khan
08-11-2009, 02:59 PM
3. It's a luxury to have.

But if you give me to pick between my only two options of Dye or Thome, I have to go with the better player and the guy who can do more for me for 162 games.

2. Thome sits against most LH pitchers and doesn't play interleague games.


1. Now if you dump both and find an adequate LH stick out there (Adam Dunn), now you have me sold.
I'd rather have Thome than a strikeout king like Dunn.
Really, it'll be about money moreso than which player they like better. Agreed, however, that we'd like to have a more versatile DH than we've had of late.
In general, of course you go with the better player. That said,it was a stupid comparison to use the mouthbreathing moron Jim Hendry and his stupid acquisition of Milton Bradley. [no offense intended] I still think that LH/RH balance is a good thing to have.

Konerko05
08-11-2009, 03:17 PM
Dye - Games on the field = +145
Thome - Games on the field = 0

DH - Games on the field = 0

LoveYourSuit
08-11-2009, 03:19 PM
I'd rather have Thome than a strikeout king like Dunn.
Really, it'll be about money moreso than which player they like better. Agreed, however, that we'd like to have a more versatile DH than we've had of late.
In general, of course you go with the better player. That said,it was a stupid comparison to use the mouthbreathing moron Jim Hendry and his stupid acquisition of Milton Bradley. [no offense intended] I still think that LH/RH balance is a good thing to have.



Only brought up that example because Lou was kicking and screaming that he needed a LH bat. The Cubs won 97 games with out one.

doublem23
08-11-2009, 03:23 PM
Keep the best player that can do the most for you. Dye >>>> Thome.

Agree 100%. If you have 2 guys of equal value, maybe you pick the lefty to shake up your lineup, but Dye brings way more to the table than Thome does, you'd be silly to lose him just for the R/L thing.

gobears1987
08-11-2009, 03:29 PM
DH - Games on the field = 0
And we are the only team in the league that has a DH who can't play any position on the field. It gives us no flexibility when our DH can't even play 1st base. We need a DH who can occasionally play the field. Thome can't even play 162 games as a DH. He has to sit 1 or 2 times a week because his back can't take it.

jdm2662
08-11-2009, 03:34 PM
And we are the only team in the league that has a DH who can't play any position on the field. It gives us no flexibility when our DH can't even play 1st base. We need a DH who can occasionally play the field. Thome can't even play 162 games as a DH. He has to sit 1 or 2 times a week because his back can't take it.

Travis Hafner disagrees with you.

That said, I would like a player that is not just a DH. Having four outfielders rotating DH would be nice.

Konerko05
08-11-2009, 03:35 PM
And we are the only team in the league that has a DH who can't play any position on the field. It gives us no flexibility when our DH can't even play 1st base. We need a DH who can occasionally play the field. Thome can't even play 162 games as a DH. He has to sit 1 or 2 times a week because his back can't take it.

There are a lot of players in baseball who can only play one position.

chisoxfanatic
08-11-2009, 03:38 PM
There are a lot of players in baseball who can only play one position.
Thome can't play ANY position, though. Dye is far more valuable to this team than Thome. I hope they exercise his option for next year.

gobears1987
08-11-2009, 03:38 PM
There are a lot of players in baseball who can only play one position.
Yes, they play a position with a glove. Having Thome play only as a DH and sit twice a week due to back strain is a waste of money.

gobears1987
08-11-2009, 03:39 PM
Travis Hafner disagrees with you.
I stand corrected on that one, but he can at least play 1st if needed. Same for Ortiz. Thome, I'm not so sure of.

Konerko05
08-11-2009, 03:42 PM
Yes, they play a position with a glove. Having Thome play only as a DH and sit twice a week due to back strain is a waste of money.

So you have a problem with the DH position in general?

It's not like Dye is an above average fielder by any means. In fact, I'd say he is below average although he still has a very strong arm.

I never said I'd rather have Thome or Dye at DH. I was just simply laying some facts down.

Thome's back is a reasonable concern. I don't think having our DH being able to play a below average OF once in a while should really be a factor.

LoveYourSuit
08-11-2009, 03:44 PM
Yes, they play a position with a glove. Having Thome play only as a DH and sit twice a week due to back strain is a waste of money.


It becomes a liability for the team. You can't DL a guy for 3-4 days, Thome needs this kind of rule.


I don't want to ever lose the DH rule in the AL, but teams are becoming way too reliant on having a no glove man at that position. The DH rule should be used as a "flex" position IMO. It makes your team so much better to have a DH who can give you 20% field time if needed. Thome and Thomas gives you 0 field time and they make way too much money.

gobears1987
08-11-2009, 03:45 PM
So you have a problem with the DH position in general?

It's not like Dye is an above average fielder by any means. In fact, I'd say he is below average although he still has a very strong arm.

I never said I'd rather have Thome or Dye at DH. I was just simply laying some facts down.

Thome's back is a reasonable concern. I don't think having our DH being able to play a below average OF once in a while should really be a factor.
I don't have a problem with the DH rule. I do have a problem pumping millions of dollars at a 38 year old (39 next year) who can't field a single position and has to sit 1-2 times a week when he is nothing but a designated hitter because he has back problems. We need a flexible line-up and Thome doesn't provide that. Dye isn't the gold glove fielder he once was, but he still has a cannon for an arm. I'll take the 36 year old Dye over the 39 year old Thome.

Konerko05
08-11-2009, 03:54 PM
I don't have a problem with the DH rule. I do have a problem pumping millions of dollars at a 38 year old (39 next year) who can't field a single position and has to sit 1-2 times a week when he is nothing but a designated hitter because he has back problems. We need a flexible line-up and Thome doesn't provide that. Dye isn't the gold glove fielder he once was, but he still has a cannon for an arm. I'll take the 36 year old Dye over the 39 year old Thome.

Like I said, Thome's back is a reasonable concern.

Thome only being able to play at the DH position is not. A DH is paid to hit. Right now, Thome might be a better hitter than Dye while hitting left handed.

Dye will be even worse defensively next season. I don't see a plus in being able to throw him on the field every once in a while.

asindc
08-11-2009, 04:04 PM
Like I said, Thome's back is a reasonable concern.

Thome only being able to play at the DH position is not. A DH is paid to hit. Right now, Thome might be a better hitter than Dye while hitting left handed.

Dye will be even worse defensively next season. I don't see a plus in being able to throw him on the field every once in a while.

Even if I agreed with you that Thome might be a better hitter than Dye is now (I don't), which player do you think is more likely to maintain his level of production in 2010? 2011?

Konerko05
08-11-2009, 04:13 PM
Even if I agreed with you that Thome might be a better hitter than Dye is now (I don't), which player do you think is more likely to maintain his level of production in 2010? 2011?

That's tough to say.

Thome's production is up from last season. Dye's production is down from last season.

Thome's production has maintained in the second half while Dye's has fallen off considerably.

It's unfair to compare though because Dye's production might have maintained better if he was resting more as the team's primary DH.

Thome will definitely continue to have the higher OBP, but I think they will stay pretty close in overall production. Thome with a slight edge. Thome also has the advantage because of his LH power.

I also don't like the idea of giving either guy anything more than a one year contract, but I know both players will demand something longer.

oeo
08-11-2009, 04:14 PM
If we're going for the crown next year, I'd really like to say bye to both and get Adam Dunn. Dye just doesn't do it for me as a DH. I'd like to see him get on base a bit more, and that's not happening.

thedudeabides
08-11-2009, 04:20 PM
Like I said, Thome's back is a reasonable concern.

Thome only being able to play at the DH position is not. A DH is paid to hit. Right now, Thome might be a better hitter than Dye while hitting left handed.

Dye will be even worse defensively next season. I don't see a plus in being able to throw him on the field every once in a while.

Dye, Pods, and Quentin could all benefit from more rest. This way you have a four outfielder rotation. All of them can take turns at the DH spot, which should reduce the risk of injury or wearing down, and they can still all get a lot of at bats.

Konerko05
08-11-2009, 04:26 PM
Dye, Pods, and Quentin could all benefit from more rest. This way you have a four outfielder rotation. All of them can take turns at the DH spot, which should reduce the risk of injury or wearing down, and they can still all get a lot of at bats.

I see what you're saying. I'd just rather use the DH position for a power left handed bat than a resting place for injury prone, bad defensive outfielders. I don't want Podsednik getting 1/3 of the DH position's at bats.

asindc
08-11-2009, 04:37 PM
That's tough to say.

Thome's production is up from last season. Dye's production is down from last season.

Thome's production has maintained in the second half while Dye's has fallen off considerably.

It's unfair to compare though because Dye's production might have maintained better if he was resting more as the team's primary DH.

Thome will definitely continue to have the higher OBP, but I think they will stay pretty close in overall production. Thome with a slight edge. Thome also has the advantage because of his LH power.

I also don't like the idea of giving either guy anything more than a one year contract, but I know both players will demand something longer.

Normally, I would give Thome more credit for his OBP, but at this point it usually takes more the two singles to get him in from first. I think this devalues his OBP somewhat, and is another reason I prefer Dye.

thedudeabides
08-11-2009, 04:38 PM
I see what you're saying. I'd just rather use the DH position for a power left handed bat than a resting place for injury prone, bad defensive outfielders. I don't want Podsednik getting 1/3 of the DH position's at bats.

Well, he's the worst outfielder of all of them. I don't see the point in keeping him in the field just because he isn't a traditional DH. This team needs a leadoff hitter, as much as a power lefthanded bat.

I understand the want for a lefthanded power bat, and I still think Thome is a good bat, but someone has to go.

SoxFan1979
08-11-2009, 04:48 PM
I wish we didn't have to get rid of any of the guys mentioned. :(:

jsg-07
08-11-2009, 04:49 PM
Well, he's the worst outfielder of all of them. I don't see the point in keeping him in the field just because he isn't a traditional DH. This team needs a leadoff hitter, as much as a power lefthanded bat.

I understand the want for a lefthanded power bat, and I still think Thome is a good bat, but someone has to go.

I agree with this. If you can get your power from other spots in the line up, why not have him DH. He needs to be in the line up right now and the outfield is better with TCQ (if healthy) Rios and Dye.

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-11-2009, 04:54 PM
So you have a problem with the DH position in general?

It's not like Dye is an above average fielder by any means. In fact, I'd say he is below average although he still has a very strong arm.

I never said I'd rather have Thome or Dye at DH. I was just simply laying some facts down.

Thome's back is a reasonable concern. I don't think having our DH being able to play a below average OF once in a while should really be a factor.

It shouldn't but it would be better for the team if the DH could fill in if need be. A DH that still has the ability to fill in on the field if a starter needs a break is a little more valuable than one that can't. It just makes more sense to prefer one that can still occasionally field and help the team out with more than just their bat.

Konerko05
08-11-2009, 05:37 PM
It shouldn't but it would be better for the team if the DH could fill in if need be. A DH that still has the ability to fill in on the field if a starter needs a break is a little more valuable than one that can't. It just makes more sense to prefer one that can still occasionally field and help the team out with more than just their bat.

That is what a bench is for.

Is Albert Pujols a liability because he can only play 1B?

CLR01
08-11-2009, 08:39 PM
I'd rather have Thome than a strikeout king like Dunn.




Is that a joke?

Rohan
08-11-2009, 08:47 PM
Is that a joke?


Jim Thome has 2289 strike outs in 7638 at bats... .299 strike out average
Adam Dunn has 1382 in 4255 at bats... .325 strike out average

Jim strikes out less than Adam Dunn.

(I think i made up the "strike out average" measurement/term. But it still makes sense.)

VeeckAsInWreck
08-11-2009, 08:53 PM
Here's an analogy for you college bound kids.

Transistor Radio is to MP3 player as Dave Kingman is to Adam Dunn.

CLR01
08-11-2009, 08:58 PM
Jim Thome has 2289 strike outs in 7638 at bats... .299 strike out average
Adam Dunn has 1382 in 4255 at bats... .325 strike out average

Jim strikes out less than Adam Dunn.

(I think i made up the "strike out average" measurement/term. But it still makes sense.)


But isn't that kind of like saying my SUV gets better gas mileage than your SUV?

Chicago5oooh
08-11-2009, 08:59 PM
Here's an analogy for you college bound kids.

Transistor Radio is to MP3 player as Dave Kingman is to Adam Dunn.


Hahahahaha!

Nice.

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-11-2009, 09:08 PM
That is what a bench is for.

Is Albert Pujols a liability because he can only play 1B?

That's not what I'm saying. Pujols plays the field and doesn't DH. Most DH's are old and can't play the field anymore. Look at Thome, Guerrero, Matsui, & Griffey (same could be said about Thomas). What I'm trying to say is why not have your DH be able to play the field every once in a while? You'd rather trot Wise out there than someone like Dye if Quentin or whoever needs a day off? Dye is fortunate enough to still be able to play in the field, despite his mistakes and drop offs defensively. Thome cannot. If your DH can play the field than he's a little bit more valuable than one who can't especially if their production is the same. Both Dye and Thome are essentially the same player, except Thome is a LH hitter and Dye a RH hitter. Thome might be a little more clutch too, IMO. I never said a DH is a liability, only that one that can actually field a ball once in a while might hold just a little more value than one that can't. In fact I would prefer to keep Thome over Dye, I just think Dye might be a little bit more valuable to the Sox than Thome at this point.

Big D
08-11-2009, 09:17 PM
Here's an analogy for you college bound kids.

Transistor Radio is to MP3 player as Dave Kingman is to Adam Dunn.

Kingman never really walked though, did he? I'll live with the strikeouts if they come with a .400 OBP. Of course, I'd much rather have Dunn as a DH than playing the outfield.

KMcMahon817
08-11-2009, 11:33 PM
Yeah. OK.:rolleyes:

Let his stats and his imaginary ROY award blind you of what a crappy defender he is at SS. In addition to making Juan Uribe look like a smart baseball player. Alexei is a very dumb player and has no clue what situational hitting is.

Hah, how you feelin about this comment right now suit? :rolleyes:haha

Chicken Dinner
08-11-2009, 11:43 PM
He needs to pull his head out! Not making a good case right now!

soltrain21
08-12-2009, 12:40 AM
Hah, how you feelin about this comment right now suit? :rolleyes:haha

One play doesn't change a player. He is very lazy out there sometimes. He does some great things, but he does some awful things just as much.

Lip Man 1
08-12-2009, 12:46 AM
Ramirez is the type of talent that drives a manager nuts.

Great natural ability and a very good athlete, can sometimes do what he wants just because he can on a field. But he takes plays off, loses concentration and has ZERO plate discipline...none.

Those are serious liabilities. Time will tell if he'll mature and become more consistent or not.

Lip

KMcMahon817
08-12-2009, 02:40 AM
One play doesn't change a player. He is very lazy out there sometimes. He does some great things, but he does some awful things just as much.

I know this. I was just very excited! :bandance::bandance:

JC456
08-12-2009, 02:01 PM
I have to say that watching this team since the Angel's series, it seems some have forgotten how to hit.

I see Paulie swinging at a pitch that is two feet outside? Huh! You don't see good hitters on a 2-2 pitch swinging at a pitch two feet outside.

JD's lunging at pitches and not driving the ball.

Tomey's just waiving at air.

I swear for these three guys (three amigos) with all of the at bats they have, are so undisciplined, just makes me say mmmmm!

I would like to know what happened to a quality at bat. Battling the pitcher and making the pitcher beat you. These three amigos do this all the time one right after the other night after night.

Then one game they all hit well, then, zoom right back there again.

Left handers or right handers, quality pitcher no quality pitcher.

To know on average that a player will only be on base 1/3 of the time, is bad enough, to see almost all the time, should start raising some questions.

Welcome Mr. Rios. :happybday

LoveYourSuit
08-12-2009, 02:11 PM
Hah, how you feelin about this comment right now suit? :rolleyes:haha


Honestly, how low is your baseball IQ?

You think a 3 run blast erases all the other crap he has done wrong all year?

I am happy we won and I happy he came through. But I expected Alexei to take a big next step this year and IMO he has taken a huge step backwards, especially with the glove.

jabrch
08-12-2009, 02:18 PM
Jim Thome has 2289 strike outs in 7638 at bats... .299 strike out average
Adam Dunn has 1382 in 4255 at bats... .325 strike out average

Jim strikes out less than Adam Dunn.

(I think i made up the "strike out average" measurement/term. But it still makes sense.)


Use of % in this case is very manipulative.

This is a different of 2%. That's 12 Ks in a 600 AB season. That's a hair on the leg of a fly on a horse's ass. What's the difference between how those 12 outs come - K or GB or FO?

Even if that is OBP, 12 outs vs hits is still minimal over the course of the season when you are talking about guys like that who take a few things after their hits to score them.

Dunn...Thome...whatever...big sluggers who field like **** and hit HRs. Don't pencil-**** those guys to death.

JC456
08-12-2009, 02:24 PM
[QUOTE=jabrch;2322269]Use of % in this case is very manipulative.

This is a different of 2%. What's the difference between how those 12 outs come - K or GB or FO?QUOTE]

You're serious? What is the difference?

How about an rbi for everyone of those 2%. Can't score on a strike out, but you can on a ground out and flyout!

Please. Trying to justify again. Happens a lot on here.

BadBobbyJenks
08-12-2009, 02:24 PM
Jim Thome has 2289 strike outs in 7638 at bats... .299 strike out average
Adam Dunn has 1382 in 4255 at bats... .325 strike out average

Jim strikes out less than Adam Dunn.

(I think i made up the "strike out average" measurement/term. But it still makes sense.)

Who cares? Adam Dunn hits 40 home runs and drives in a 100 every single year.

TheVulture
08-12-2009, 03:00 PM
Ramirez is the type of talent that drives a manager nuts.

Great natural ability and a very good athlete, can sometimes do what he wants just because he can on a field. But he takes plays off, loses concentration and has ZERO plate discipline...none.

Those are serious liabilities. Time will tell if he'll mature and become more consistent or not.

Lip

Alexei's doubled his walk total already from last year and has the second lowest strikeout rate on the team after AJ. Only Dye, Beckham and Thome have more walks per plate appearance. If he has zero plate discipline, then the bulk of the team is in the negative.

gobears1987
08-12-2009, 03:09 PM
Who cares? Adam Dunn hits 40 home runs and drives in a 100 every single year.
What he said

whitesoxfan
08-12-2009, 03:13 PM
Strikeouts don't hurt your team, they only hurt your feelings.

KMcMahon817
08-12-2009, 03:14 PM
Honestly, how low is your baseball IQ?

You think a 3 run blast erases all the other crap he has done wrong all year?

I am happy we won and I happy he came through. But I expected Alexei to take a big next step this year and IMO he has taken a huge step backwards, especially with the glove.

Haha, wow, easy buddy. Clearly, you didn't read what I said. I said I was just extremely excited, but that was some very nice situational hitting, you must admit. Chill out.

LoveYourSuit
08-12-2009, 03:14 PM
Alexei's doubled his walk total already from last year and has the second lowest strikeout rate on the team after AJ. Only Dye, Beckham and Thome have more walks per plate appearance. If he has zero plate discipline, then the bulk of the team is in the negative.


To use lack of Ks as an indicator of a player's plate discipline is very dumb.

LoveYourSuit
08-12-2009, 03:15 PM
Haha, wow, easy buddy. Clearly, you didn't read what I said. I said I was just extremely excited, but that was some very nice situational hitting, you must admit. Chill out.


I was excited as can be. No doubt.

Lip Man 1
08-12-2009, 06:00 PM
Vulture:

To quote Ozzie Guillen..."I'm tired of solo home runs and strikeouts..."

The Sox again have a ton of both this season.

Yes the entire club is bad at plate discipline.

Lip