PDA

View Full Version : Rios Claimed


Pages : [1] 2

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 04:01 PM
But by who?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4384253

102605
08-07-2009, 04:04 PM
I bet it is the Giants.

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 04:05 PM
I bet it is the Giants.

Same

Stoky44
08-07-2009, 04:08 PM
I bet Kenny claimed him.

KRS1
08-07-2009, 04:12 PM
I bet he didn't make it past the Nats.

Jaysox
08-07-2009, 04:14 PM
Wouldn't all the teams in the AL get a shot at claiming Rios before the NL gets a shot at him since Rios is currently on an AL roster? I'm thinking Kenny did it.

Stoky44
08-07-2009, 04:15 PM
Wouldn't all the teams in the AL get a shot at claiming Rios before the NL gets a shot at him since Rios is currently on an AL roster? I'm thinking Kenny did it.

Yes and that's what i am thinking

Sargeant79
08-07-2009, 04:15 PM
I bet Kenny claimed him.

I bet Kenny is done taking on long-term salary for the season.

DaveFeelsRight
08-07-2009, 04:15 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/08/alex-rios-claimed-on-waivers-trade-next.html#comments

who do you think picked him up?

EDIT: nevermind. didnt see the thread in talking baseball. can a mod delete this?

SoxGirl4Life
08-07-2009, 04:22 PM
Hmmm.. 6 years at 10 million a year. I don't think that sounds like us

jabrch
08-07-2009, 04:27 PM
If he was claimed, do you think the Jays pull him back, work out a trade, or let him go?

He's due 60mm over the next 5 years. I wouldn't trade a single prospect for him. If I were the Jays, I'd be thrilled to dump that deal. He's hitting .261/.315/.413 right now.

60mm will go a long way in this offseason even though it is a thin FA crop. If the Sox claimed him, there's a chance we may get him. And I'm not sure that's a good thing. Pods has been very productive.

Coolpapa
08-07-2009, 04:28 PM
Tigers or Rangers

PalehosePlanet
08-07-2009, 04:32 PM
If he was claimed, do you think the Jays pull him back, work out a trade, or let him go?

He's due 60mm over the next 5 years. I wouldn't trade a single prospect for him. If I were the Jays, I'd be thrilled to dump that deal. He's hitting .261/.315/.413 right now.

60mm will go a long way in this offseason even though it is a thin FA crop. If the Sox claimed him, there's a chance we may get him. And I'm not sure that's a good thing. Pods has been very productive.

The Jays would have to agree to pick up about 3 million a year or so of the contract to expect a worthwhile return.

Noir
08-07-2009, 04:34 PM
I'm thinking the Giants got him. They need Rios moreso than we do.

SoxGirl4Life
08-07-2009, 04:37 PM
I'm thinking the Giants got him. They need Rios moreso than we do.

He's got to get through the whole AL first, no?

palehozenychicty
08-07-2009, 04:37 PM
I hope we didn't do it. He and Wells may be two of the most overrated outfielders in the game.

I also doubt the Rangers did, with Hicks' reported financial issues. Hmm.....

:popcorn:

Metalthrasher442
08-07-2009, 04:38 PM
One word *interesting*

jabrch
08-07-2009, 04:38 PM
Tigers or Rangers

I can't envision the Rangers getting him after having to borrow money to make payroll.

And I can't see Detroit doing that given their long term liabilities already and their lack of a need for a CF.

jabrch
08-07-2009, 04:39 PM
The Jays would have to agree to pick up about 3 million a year or so of the contract to expect a worthwhile return.

Even 3mm....that's not much. He'd be earning 9mm. Think about what FA OFs went for this year - shorter deals for less money for guys who were as good or better....

Noir
08-07-2009, 04:42 PM
He's got to get through the whole AL first, no?

he does. And why do we need him? For insurance in case TCQ goes down? Pass on the expensive as your first born insurance policy known as Alex Rios

Zisk77
08-07-2009, 04:44 PM
I think kenny would claim him and try to work a trade were the Jays eat 1/2 the salary. If the jays stuck us with him, I think you could trade him during the off season or at the deadline fairly easy.

Coolpapa
08-07-2009, 04:53 PM
I can't envision the Rangers getting him after having to borrow money to make payroll.

And I can't see Detroit doing that given their long term liabilities already and their lack of a need for a CF.

Replacement for Maggs? He could be gone

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Rios would be a great fit for the Sox..

He could be our CF for the next 6 years.


Lets say it is the Sox that claim Rios. What prospects do you think we would have to give up for him?

spawn
08-07-2009, 05:01 PM
Rios would be a great fit for the Sox..

He could be our CF for the next 6 years.
And how's that?

Zisk77
08-07-2009, 05:13 PM
Rios would be a great fit for the Sox..

He could be our CF for the next 6 years.


Lets say it is the Sox that claim Rios. What prospects do you think we would have to give up for him?


Maybe Nix, Fields, & a pitcher. Less or more depending on how much of the salary the Jays eat.

DickAllen72
08-07-2009, 05:31 PM
Rios would be a great fit for the Sox..

He could be our CF for the next 6 years.


Lets say it is the Sox that claim Rios. What prospects do you think we would have to give up for him?
Shelby and/or Fields.

KRS1
08-07-2009, 05:32 PM
Maybe Nix, Fields, & a pitcher. Less or more depending on how much of the salary the Jays eat.

You can't trade players on the 40-man without them going through waivers after the NW deadline, so neither Fields or Nix would be going the other way.

DickAllen72
08-07-2009, 05:34 PM
You can't trade players on the 40-man without them going through waivers after the NW deadline, so neither Fields or Nix would be going the other way.
Oops. Forgot about that.

I doubt it would take any upper tier prospects to get Rios. The Jays may be happy just to get out of that contract. I hope KW did claim him, but I highly doubt it.

KenBerryGrab
08-07-2009, 05:36 PM
If the jays stuck us with him, I think you could trade him during the off season or at the deadline fairly easy.

Why? His OPS is terrible, he's trending downward and he's really expensive.

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 05:43 PM
Wasn't the Mets or Red Sox according to reports.

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 05:47 PM
A radio report here in San Fran. Thinks its the Giants or White Sox that claim him.

Anything being said on the Chicago radio stations

Sockinchisox
08-07-2009, 05:47 PM
Will Carroll says there's a lot of "speculation" that the Sox are the one's who claimed him.

http://twitter.com/injuryexpert/status/3183784975

Foulke You
08-07-2009, 05:52 PM
I know it is that tired WSI cliche' but where exactly would Rios fit on our ballclub right now? Quentin is hitting, Thome is hitting and healthy, Dye is hitting, Pods is hitting (and playing CF). Rios is a good player having a down year right now but still, I just don't see a spot for him on this year's club. That being said, KW did go out and get Griffey on the waivers when a spot wasn't 100% there for him. Interesting to see what happens here.

wsoxfan
08-07-2009, 05:55 PM
A team made a waiver claim for Alex Rios (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4384253). Curious to see who it might be as I don't figure too many teams are in position to add too much salary right now...

Edit: Delete the thread please as there is one already stared, my bad...

...
08-07-2009, 05:59 PM
I know it is that tired WSI cliche' but where exactly would Rios fit on our ballclub right now? Quentin is hitting, Thome is hitting and healthy, Dye is hitting, Pods is hitting (and playing CF). Rios is a good player having a down year right now but still, I just don't see a spot for him on this year's club. That being said, KW did go out and get Griffey on the waivers when a spot wasn't 100% there for him. Interesting to see what happens here.

Griffey was acquired before the July 31st deadline.

DickAllen72
08-07-2009, 06:02 PM
I know it is that tired WSI cliche' but where exactly would Rios fit on our ballclub right now? Quentin is hitting, Thome is hitting and healthy, Dye is hitting, Pods is hitting (and playing CF). Rios is a good player having a down year right now but still, I just don't see a spot for him on this year's club. That being said, KW did go out and get Griffey on the waivers when a spot wasn't 100% there for him. Interesting to see what happens here.
Well, IF the Sox did get Rios, I think it would be pretty easy for Ozzie to get him in. On some days, say against leftys he could DH Quentin and have an OF of Pods, Rios & Dye. On some days, Pods sits and the OF is Q, Rios & Dye. On other days Dye either rests or DH's and you have Q, Pods and Rios in RF. Other days Rios rests.

He'd fit in nicely, except for the fact that Ozzie wouldn't want to cut Wise.

PalehosePlanet
08-07-2009, 06:07 PM
I know it is that tired WSI cliche' but where exactly would Rios fit on our ballclub right now? Quentin is hitting, Thome is hitting and healthy, Dye is hitting, Pods is hitting (and playing CF). Rios is a good player having a down year right now but still, I just don't see a spot for him on this year's club. That being said, KW did go out and get Griffey on the waivers when a spot wasn't 100% there for him. Interesting to see what happens here.

Not sure about right now (maybe sit Pods and/or Jimmy vs. lefties....or should Quentin hit the DL again) but next year he can take JD's spot in the OF while JD moves primarily to DH.

KW has always liked Rios, we know that; we also that he is relentless when going after someone he wants.

In this case, like others (Q, Gavin, etc...), he is trying to buy low on a very talented player, which is the right time to go after a player.

IMO, this type of move totally fits KW's MO.

Zisk77
08-07-2009, 06:16 PM
Why? His OPS is terrible, he's trending downward and he's really expensive.


Oh God

Foulke You
08-07-2009, 06:17 PM
Griffey was acquired before the July 31st deadline.
You are correct. My memory is failing in my old age.:tongue:

Foulke You
08-07-2009, 06:21 PM
IMO, this type of move totally fits KW's MO.
I agree, aside from the large contract, this does fit KW's under the radar style. The money situation on Rios is something that makes me think it might not be the Sox. After the Peavy trade, there was a blurb in the Sun Times about Kenny having to convince Jerry Reinsdorf to take the Peavy contract because he had "financial reservations". Kenny's response to Jerry was "we are either in it to win or we're not" and apparently, that was enough to convince Jerry to approve the deal. Could Kenny go to that statement twice in a 2 week stretch to get Jerry to take on more salary? Perhaps Reinsdorf is more in a spending mood now that his Coyotes purchase might fall through?:tongue:

Zisk77
08-07-2009, 06:23 PM
You can't trade players on the 40-man without them going through waivers after the NW deadline, so neither Fields or Nix would be going the other way.


true...maybe as PTBNL?

Zisk77
08-07-2009, 06:25 PM
I agree, aside from the large contract, this does fit KW's under the radar style. The money situation on Rios is something that makes me think it might not be the Sox. After the Peavy trade, there was a blurb in the Sun Times about Kenny having to convince Jerry Reinsdorf to take the Peavy contract because he had "financial reservations". Kenny's response to Jerry was "we are either in it to win or we're not" and apparently, that was enough to convince Jerry to approve the deal. Could Kenny go to that statement twice in a 2 week stretch to get Jerry to take on more salary? Perhaps Reinsdorf is more in a spending mood now that his Coyotes purchase might fall through?:tongue:


i would think the Jays have to eat some of the salary and the move makes sense to block the tiggers as well.

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 06:37 PM
I am not to sure if this is good info but here is the link

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/232128-alex-rios-claimed-off-waivers-by-the-giants-how-would-it-change-the-nl

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 06:39 PM
I am not to sure if this is good info but here is the link

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/232128-alex-rios-claimed-off-waivers-by-the-giants-how-would-it-change-the-nl

It isn't.

Bleacher Report is not a place to get any sort of credible information.

illini81887
08-07-2009, 06:58 PM
It isn't.

Bleacher Report is not a place to get any sort of credible information.
plus kid is 16

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 06:59 PM
Oh God
Did the poster quoted say something false?

...
08-07-2009, 07:05 PM
Did the poster quoted say something false?

Would anything short of acquiring Albert Pujols make you optimistic?

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 07:08 PM
Would anything short of acquiring Albert Pujols make you optimistic?
Well that's a pretty strong reach.

How about someone, anyone really, in three sentences or less convince me or any other skeptic (such as the poster quoted by Zisk) that adding Alex Rios is a) financially prudent b) will improve the team and c) not pointless.

Or just some refutation of the fact that Rios is trending downwards.

...
08-07-2009, 07:13 PM
Well that's a pretty strong reach.

How about someone, anyone really, in three sentences or less convince me or any other skeptic (such as the poster quoted by Zisk) that adding Alex Rios is a) financially prudent b) will improve the team and c) not pointless.

Or just some refutation of the fact that Rios is trending downwards.

How about you prove the contrary? In three sentences or less, of course.

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 07:15 PM
How about you prove the contrary? In three sentences or less, of course.
I think this will do:

Why? His OPS is terrible, he's trending downward and he's really expensive.

Of course it's a bit more nuanced than that, but this is a nice summary.

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 07:18 PM
It's not likely the Giants claimed Rios.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/detail?&entry_id=45144

...
08-07-2009, 07:18 PM
I think this will do:



Of course it's a bit more nuanced than that, but this is a nice summary.

No, that won't do.

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 07:20 PM
No, that won't do.
Rios is not worth his paycheck, he does not fit in our current roster, and we'd be ruining our financial flexibility for the sake of an injured pitcher (who won a Cy Young, so that risk is certainly well worth it!) and a decent-but-eh-not-really-all-that-good-in-the-grand-scheme-of-things outfielder.

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 07:21 PM
No, that won't do.
Oh, and:

How about you prove the contrary? In three sentences or less, of course.

app2686
08-07-2009, 07:27 PM
Fan graphs argues that Rios is actually being paid below market value:

"Rios is a +3.5 to +4.5 win player in the prime of his career, and hes due to make just under $60 million for the next five years. This is a really good contract for the Jays. Rios is an outstanding player being paid less than his market value."

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/rios-wells

I think what people forget about Rios is that he plays excellent defense (which is where he derives alot of his value) and that he hits a lot of doubles.

I mean fine, he won't be hitting 30 home runs anytime soon, but I'll easily take a player who can hit 20 hrs, hit 40-50 doubles, steal 25-30 bases, and play solid defense in the outfield which is something the White Sox desperately need.

...
08-07-2009, 07:28 PM
Rios is not worth his paycheck, he does not fit in our current roster, and we'd be ruining our financial flexibility for the sake of an injured pitcher (who won a Cy Young, so that risk is certainly well worth it!) and a decent-but-eh-not-really-all-that-good-in-the-grand-scheme-of-things outfielder.

That was a blatant run-on sentence. :D:

Ok, Rios is NOT overpaid, considering he is able to play CF, a premium position which he plays very well. His salary is well in line with other CF putting up similar numbers. Looking to next year, Rios would have a slot in CF with Dye either gone or at DH.

The Immigrant
08-07-2009, 07:29 PM
How about you prove the contrary? In three sentences or less, of course.

1. He's only 28 and is having a down year statistically. He had solid numbers each of the last three seasons, and it is reasonable to expect a bounce-back (especially once he joins a contending team).

2. He would instantly be our best defensive outfielder and can play CF.

3. He hits doubles and steals bases, both of which our one-dimensional offense needs.

Oh, and you don't win a prize for fiscal responsibility.

tm1119
08-07-2009, 07:30 PM
Well that's a pretty strong reach.

How about someone, anyone really, in three sentences or less convince me or any other skeptic (such as the poster quoted by Zisk) that adding Alex Rios is a) financially prudent b) will improve the team and c) not pointless.

Or just some refutation of the fact that Rios is trending downwards.

A) The market for 28 year old CF's. If Rios were to be on the open market he would command a pretty hefty multi year deal. See Rowand, Cameron, Wells, Andruw Jones just to name a few in recent years.
B) 2006, 2007, and 2008. Plus our never ending black hole in CF. If we can get a guy that can hit .280 with 25 hr's and 25 steals all the while playing well above average D then I'm all for it.
C) If we are depending on Pods to start in CF for us next year then we have a pretty big problem.

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 07:31 PM
1. He's only 28 and is having a down year statistically. He had solid numbers each of the last three seasons, and it is reasonable to expect a bounce-back (especially once he joins a contending team).

2. He would instantly be our best defensive outfielder and can play CF.

3. He hits doubles and steals bases, both of which our one-dimensional offense needs.

Oh, and you don't win a prize for fiscal responsibility.
You don't win divisions being financially irresponsible either.

KRS1
08-07-2009, 07:31 PM
Well that's a pretty strong reach.

How about someone, anyone really, in three sentences or less convince me or any other skeptic (such as the poster quoted by Zisk) that adding Alex Rios is a) financially prudent b) will improve the team and c) not pointless.

Or just some refutation of the fact that Rios is trending downwards.

Well, financially looking at Alex, he's probably not a 10M a year player as a corner OF, but as a CF it's not nearly as bad a deal. As for the last two points, it's debatable as no one can tell the future as far as I know. However, he would make sense to take a chance on for the future. If we retain Pods (likely IMO), Alex in CF it allows us to move him to left and make up for that lost corner slugging, while shifting Carlos to right and Dye to DH. Not a bad prospect, IMO. It certainly is a risk betting on his contract and hoping he returns to the 300/350/450-500 line he had and everyone thought was in his horizon for years to come. I personally think it's a risk worth taking depending on what goes back, but definitely a risk with that deal. It's not like we're so stacked with bad contracts that it would cripple us for years to come if he keeps spiraling into a sub 800 OPS guy (threw that out there just for the statheads).

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 07:32 PM
A) The market for 28 year old CF's. If Rios were to be on the open market he would command a pretty hefty multi year deal. See Rowand, Cameron, Wells, Andruw Jones just to name a few in recent years.
B) 2006, 2007, and 2008. Plus our never ending black hole in CF. If we can get a guy that can hit .280 with 25 hr's and 25 steals all the while playing well above average D then I'm all for it.
C) If we are depending on Pods to start in CF for us next year then we have a pretty big problem.
These are arguments that I can at least understand, point A notwithstanding, as Rios would not command a hefty deal in this market.

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 07:33 PM
Well, financially looking at Alex, he's probably not a 10M a year player as a corner OF, but as a CF it's not nearly as bad a deal. As for the last two points, it's debatable as no one can tell the future as far as I know. However, he would make sense to take a chance on for the future. If we retain Pods (likely IMO), Alex in CF it allows us to move him to left and make up for that lost corner slugging, while shifting Carlos to right and Dye to DH. Not a bad prospect, IMO. It certainly is a risk betting on his contract and hoping he returns to the 300/350/450-500 line he had and everyone thought was in his horizon for years to come. I personally think it's a risk worth taking depending on what going back, but definitely a risk with that deal. It's not like we're so stacked with bad contracts that it would cripple us for years to come if he keeps spiraling into a sub 800 OPS guy (threw that out there just for the statheads).
If Rios is somehow acquired, I'd much rather retain Thome for one more seaosn and play an outfield of Q/Rios/Dye. Much, much better.

RedPinStripes
08-07-2009, 07:35 PM
Hope the Sox got claimed him, but I wonder what price the Jays are asking for? Can't be too much if a team is taking over the contract. :scratch:

The Immigrant
08-07-2009, 07:40 PM
You don't win divisions being financially irresponsible either.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. The Sox have significant payroll coming off the books this offseason. They have committed some of that payroll to Peavy and may be looking to commit a portion to Rios. Even with those two contracts on the books the team's payroll for 2010 would be lower than what it was before the Peavy trade. The Sox don't sign premium free agents, at least since Belle, so this may be our best shot at landing an above-average CF with significant upside.

sas1974
08-07-2009, 07:44 PM
IF we did claim him, who leads off when he starts (assuming a healthy TCQ)?

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 07:44 PM
I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. The Sox have significant payroll coming off the books this offseason. They have committed some of that payroll to Peavy and may be looking to commit a portion to Rios. Even with those two contracts on the books the team's payroll for 2010 would be lower than what it was before the Peavy trade. The Sox don't sign premium free agents, at least since Belle, so this may be our best shot at landing an above-average CF with significant upside.
Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

Lillian
08-07-2009, 07:46 PM
I said this before, but if you could acquire Rios to play CF, you wouldn't need to bring either Dye or Thome back. I love them both, but this team needs to get faster and more athletic. With an offense of Pods, Beckham, Rios, Quentin, Konerko, A. J. and Alexei, they have enough thunder.

The Defense would be vastly improved with an outfield of Pods in LF, Rios in CF and Quentin in RF.
The Infield would be Beckham, Ramirez, Getz or Nix, and Konerko.
Team speed would be outstanding.

Payroll wise, you can resign Pods for a modest amount and the money saved on Dye and Thome would allow you to pay Rios.
The only missing ingredient is a left handed power bat, but that need is minimized by the fact that none of our right handed hitters really struggle against right handed pitching. Pods, Getz and A.J. give you 3 bats from the left side, albeit with little power.

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 07:51 PM
I said this before, but if you could acquire Rios to play CF, you wouldn't need to bring either Dye or Thome back. I love them both, but this team needs to get faster and more athletic. With an offense of Pods, Beckham, Rios, Quentin, Konerko, A. J. and Alexei, they have enough thunder.

The Defense would be vastly improved with an outfield of Pods in LF, Rios in CF and Quentin in RF.
The Infield would be Beckham, Ramirez, Getz or Nix, and Konerko.
Team speed would be outstanding.

Payroll wise, you can resign Pods for a modest amount and the money saved on Dye and Thome would allow you to pay Rios.
The only missing ingredient is a left handed power bat, but that need is minimized by the fact that none of our right handed hitters really struggle against right handed pitching. Pods, Getz and A.J. give you 3 bats from the left side, albeit with little power.
I really struggle to understand how Pods/Rios/Quentin with no Thome could possibly be better than Quentin/Rios/Dye with Thome.

Thome>>>>>>>>>>Podsednik

soxyess
08-07-2009, 07:57 PM
Keep in mind that Rios plays in a pitcher's ballpark, and in the toughest division in baseball. In our ballpark in our division you can expect .280-.290- 20-25hrs and 75-90rbi's. You will also see exceptional defense, and increased team speed.

Lillian
08-07-2009, 08:00 PM
I really struggle to understand how Pods/Rios/Quentin with no Thome could possibly be better than Quentin/Rios/Dye with Thome.

Thome>>>>>>>>>>Podsednik

It's a different kind of team. More speed, better defense. Perhaps what you fail to consider is the age factor. Next year Thome will turn 40 and Dye will be 36. At some point we have to expect their production to decline. I'd rather have Rios who has just entered his prime.
If there were still some payroll flexibility, then you could bring in a left handed power bat to DH.

soxyess
08-07-2009, 08:03 PM
The post Steroid era calls for speed and gap hitting. The old time slugger is a player of the past. Players like Thome and Dye will slow your team down.

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 08:04 PM
It's a different kind of team. More speed, better defense. Perhaps what you fail to consider is the age factor. Next year Thome will turn 40 and Dye will be 36. At some point we have to expect their production to decline. I'd rather have Rios who has just entered his prime.
I included Rios in both scenarios, but not Podsednik.

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 08:04 PM
The post Steroid era calls for speed and gap hitting. The old time slugger is a player of the past. Players like Thome and Dye will slow your team down.
Want to extrapolate this a little bit?

Frater Perdurabo
08-07-2009, 08:05 PM
I hope it was the Sox who claimed him, and that the Sox acquire him cheaply. Why?

1. Rios is MUCH better than Wise and thus upgrades the roster.

2. Rios solves the CF problem for the next 5 years.

3. Rios' contract next year is paid by not re-signing Thome.

mccoydp
08-07-2009, 08:08 PM
I hope it was the Sox who claimed him, and that the Sox acquire him cheaply. Why?

1. Rios is MUCH better than Wise and thus upgrades the roster.

2. Rios solves the CF problem for the next 5 years.

3. Rios' contract next year is paid by not re-signing Thome.

This all makes good sense, and I hope that's the reasoning Kenny used if he closed the deal.

soxyess
08-07-2009, 08:15 PM
Want to extrapolate this a little bit?

Teams are building with athletic core players. You need to be able to run play defense. Line drive hitters are becoming the norm. The traditional slugger will be an endangered species in MLB. Dye and more so Thome are aging traditional sluggers whose skills are and will continue to be on the downswing.

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 08:22 PM
Teams are building with athletic core players. You need to be able to run play defense. Line drive hitters are becoming the norm. The traditional slugger will be an endangered species in MLB. Dye and more so Thome are aging traditional sluggers whose skills are and will continue to be on the downswing.
Do you have data? Some statistical proof rather than just conjecture and speculation?

soxyess
08-07-2009, 08:24 PM
Do you have data? Some statistical proof rather than just conjecture and speculation?


No I dont but look around the league.

Brian26
08-07-2009, 08:56 PM
Ok, Rios is NOT overpaid, considering he is able to play CF, a premium position which he plays very well.

If you look at his stats right now (batting something like .261 with 13 homers on the season), he damn sure is overpaid.

...
08-07-2009, 09:05 PM
If you look at his stats right now (batting something like .261 with 13 homers on the season), he damn sure is overpaid.

Yeah, he's having a down year, what's you're ****ing point? According to your piss-poor logic, anyone who has a down year in the middle of a multi-year contract is over paid. 90% of the league has been been overpaid at some point in their career. Paulie was over paid in 2007 & 2008. Buehrle was over paid in 2006. The list goes on and on.

Rios is a good ball player at a premium position with a contract that will look like a bargain by its final year.

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 09:07 PM
A friend of mine send me this quote from SOXTALK.COM

"I was watching the Blue Jays vs. Orioles broadcast on MASN and they said it was the White Sox who claimed Rios."

MASN is the O's station.



Has anyone else heard this

Crede24Thome25
08-07-2009, 09:08 PM
One of my friends who's watching the Blue Jays game just told me the Jays announcer said; it is the White Sox who claimed Rios.

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 09:14 PM
http://billhohnhatesus.blogspot.com/2009/08/who-claimed-alex-rios-analyzing-mystery.html

tm1119
08-07-2009, 09:16 PM
Yeah, he's having a down year,. What's you're ****ing point? According to your piss-poor logic, anyone who has a down-year in the middle of a multi-year contract is over paid. 90% of the league has been been overpaid at some point in their career. Paulie was over paid in 2007 & 2008. Buehrle was over paid in 2006. The list goes on and on.

Rios is a good ball player at a premium position with a contract that will look like a bargain by its final year.

Bargain is a bit of an exaggeration. I think the problem in this thread(and most on this site) is that people are taking the extreme opposite sides of the argument. I think it is agreeable that Rios is having a down year and that last year(+ some HR's if hes playing in The Cell) is more than likely the norm we could expect from him. Now if he is putting up those kind of #'s and playing above average CF is it a "good" contract? Probably not. But is it a bad contract? Certainly not. Bottom line is that he would indeed help this team, I dont think there is any denying that.

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 09:32 PM
if its the Sox that did claimed Rios a week later after we got Peavy.. I never want to hear any Sox fan call JR cheap ever again.

Frater Perdurabo
08-07-2009, 09:44 PM
Getting ahead of myself, but since this is WTS, let's indulge in some speculation:

With Rios in hand, let Thome and Dye go this offseason, and then sign Chone Figgins to play LF and lead off.

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 09:49 PM
Tom Verducci has said its an AL team that claimed Rios.. Also its been reported that Seattle didn't claimed him

...
08-07-2009, 09:50 PM
Getting ahead of myself, but since this is WTS, let's indulge in some speculation:

With Rios in hand, let Thome and Dye go this offseason, and then sign Chone Figgins to play LF and lead off.

Do we really want to sign a 32 year old Chone Figgins to a multi-year deal?

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 09:52 PM
Is it a rule that every post about upcoming and (past) free agency have the words "Chone Figgins" in them? :?:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-07-2009, 09:53 PM
Do we really want to sign a 32 year old Chone Figgins to a multi-year deal?

Depending on the amount, I'd definitely love to see Figgins on the Sox. He's versatile, a good hitter, and a SB threat every time he's on base. It's not like he's 36-37. He still has a few good years left in him at least.

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 09:56 PM
Edit: Reformatted my post

1) KC
2) BAL
3) CLE
4) OAK
5) TOR X
6) MIN
7) CWS
8) SEA X
9) TB
10) DET
11) TEX
12) BOS X
13) NYY
14) LAA

tm1119
08-07-2009, 09:57 PM
Getting ahead of myself, but since this is WTS, let's indulge in some speculation:

With Rios in hand, let Thome and Dye go this offseason, and then sign Chone Figgins to play LF and lead off.

Too much power missing in opinion. Keep Dye and resign Pods. I would probably sign an insurance utility guy just for insurance if Pods goes down. A lineup looking something like this next would sure be nice.

LF Pods
3B Beckham
DH Dye
RF Quentin
1B Konero
C AJ
SS Alexei
CF Rios
2B Getz
Bench OF- Ankiel/Crisp/Byrd/Baldelli?

soxyess
08-07-2009, 10:08 PM
Too much power missing in opinion. Keep Dye and resign Pods. I would probably sign an insurance utility guy just for insurance if Pods goes down. A lineup looking something like this next would sure be nice.

LF Pods
3B Beckham
DH Dye
RF Quentin
1B Konero
C AJ
SS Alexei
CF Rios
2B Getz
Bench OF- Ankiel/Crisp/Byrd/Baldelli?

First of all this team needs to begin to move away from Thome, Dye Konerko they have been great for us, but they are also part of the reason that we are a 500 team. They are too one dimensional. As far as bringing back Pods. He's had a nice year, and has made a disastrous leadoff situation much better, but he is brutal defensively, and he's not young. We need to get younger and faster with an emphasis on line drive hitters.

Frater Perdurabo
08-07-2009, 10:10 PM
First of all this team needs to begin to move away from Thome, Dye Konerko they have been great for us, but they are also part of the reason that we are a 500 team. They are too one dimensional. As far as bringing back Pods. He's had a nice year, and has made a disastrous leadoff situation much better, but he is brutal defensively, and he's not young. We need to get younger and faster with an emphasis on line drive hitters.

I agree. Combined with AJ, these guys really slow down the middle of the lineup. It's great when they are getting on base and hitting homers, but they also go through long dry spells. It's a big part of why the Sox offense is so inconsistent.

Hitmen77
08-07-2009, 10:11 PM
When do we get official word on who claimed him? Is this something that would be announced tonight? Tomorrow? Or within a few days?

sox1970
08-07-2009, 10:15 PM
When do we get official word on who claimed him? Is this something that would be announced tonight? Tomorrow? Or within a few days?

Unless they make a trade, nothing will ever be officially announced.

soxyess
08-07-2009, 10:16 PM
I agree. Combined with AJ, these guys really slow down the middle of the lineup. It's great when they are getting on base and hitting homers, but they also go through long dry spells. It's a big part of why the Sox offense is so inconsistent.

Absolutely, with the exception of Thome occassionally hitting HR's to the opposite field, and AJ occassionally going to right field they are predominantly pull hitters and pull hitters can get as cold as they can get hot.

soxyess
08-07-2009, 10:19 PM
For what its worth, and it may not be much, a friend of mine who is in Toronto on business tells me its all over sports radio there that we claimed Rios.

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 10:30 PM
Steve Goffman a executive producer from WSCR. He said on his face book page that the B Jays announcers reported that the Sox are the team that claimed Rios

infohawk
08-07-2009, 10:35 PM
Buster Olney just speculated on Baseball Tonight that the White Sox are the team that likely claimed Rios.

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 10:37 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4384253

DSpivack
08-07-2009, 10:38 PM
Buster Olney just speculated on Baseball Tonight that the White Sox are the team that likely claimed Rios.

Now a deal has to be made, I assume Ricciardi doesn't let him go for nothing.

Domeshot17
08-07-2009, 10:39 PM
Almost every team is slow in the 3-4-5 department. You are a better team when your 3-4-5 hit 35-40 homers without speed then when they hit 15-20 with speed. You want speed 1-2 and 6-7-8-9. You can even live with a slow 6. You rarely get speed out of your sluggers.

And No, Big Time Slow Power hitters are not the thing of the past. Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Albert Pujols, Morneau, Texiera, Pena, Dunn, Gonzalez etc. will all have long successful careers in the mlb without stealing bases.

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 10:39 PM
Now a deal has to be made, I assume Ricciardi doesn't let him go for nothing.

He should let him go for nothing, or at least close to nothing. They need to shed that salary.

Craig Grebeck
08-07-2009, 10:41 PM
Isn't it possible that KW is blocking the Tigres?

Domeshot17
08-07-2009, 10:41 PM
Rios is due 12 mil every year after next, I would ask the blue jays to kick in 3 mil a year or such

Frater Perdurabo
08-07-2009, 10:41 PM
Almost every team is slow in the 3-4-5 department. You are a better team when your 3-4-5 hit 35-40 homers without speed then when they hit 15-20 with speed. You want speed 1-2 and 6-7-8-9. You can even live with a slow 6. You rarely get speed out of your sluggers.

And No, Big Time Slow Power hitters are not the thing of the past. Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Albert Pujols, Morneau, Texiera, Pena, Dunn, Gonzalez etc. will all have long successful careers in the mlb without stealing bases.

I don't care if the middle of the lineup hitters steal bases. But it would be nice if on a single they could go first to third or score from second.

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 10:42 PM
Isn't it possible that KW is blocking the Tigres?

Wouldn't that be a rather risky thing to do? Or is it close to certain the Jays want something significant in return?

102605
08-07-2009, 10:42 PM
Can't the Jays just decide to let him go for nothing and we would be forced to take him and his contract?

Frater Perdurabo
08-07-2009, 10:42 PM
Now a deal has to be made, I assume Ricciardi doesn't let him go for nothing.

The Jays could always pull him back off waivers.

Frater Perdurabo
08-07-2009, 10:43 PM
Can't the Jays just decide to let him go for nothing and we would be forced to take him and his contract?

Yes.

Daver
08-07-2009, 10:43 PM
Can't the Jays just decide to let him go for nothing and we would be forced to take him and his contract?

Yes, that is an option, and the Jays have done that very thing in the past.

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 10:43 PM
Can't the Jays just decide to let him go for nothing and we would be forced to take him and his contract?

that is correct

jdm2662
08-07-2009, 10:50 PM
Wouldn't that be a rather risky thing to do? Or is it close to certain the Jays want something significant in return?

Yes, that's the risk you take with the waiver claims. That happened with the Yankees in 2000 with Canseco. The Yankees claimed him to block other teams from getting him. The Rays said, thanks, here you go...

jdm2662
08-07-2009, 10:51 PM
Yes, that is an option, and the Jays have done that very thing in the past.

The Padres were never happier with a washed up Randy Meyers.

Soxman219
08-07-2009, 10:53 PM
So is it true? Did we get him?

tm1119
08-07-2009, 10:58 PM
First of all this team needs to begin to move away from Thome, Dye Konerko they have been great for us, but they are also part of the reason that we are a 500 team. They are too one dimensional. As far as bringing back Pods. He's had a nice year, and has made a disastrous leadoff situation much better, but he is brutal defensively, and he's not young. We need to get younger and faster with an emphasis on line drive hitters.

I completely agree with you, but how exactly do you plan doing all of that right now? Young, fast, line drive hitters arent exactly growing on trees right. And I probably wouldnt have a problem letting both Thome and Dye walk if we hadnt just traded for Peavy. Management clearly is trying to win now. Bring back Pods and Dye on 1 year deals and hope something special happens next year. And Figgins isnt the answer at this point in his career either. His game is based purely on speed, and once that goes he will be mediocre at best.

esbrechtel
08-07-2009, 10:59 PM
where does he play? If he plays CF does that make Pods the 4th OF?

SoxGirl4Life
08-07-2009, 10:59 PM
I'm confused at what's going on with this. We claimed him. Do we want him? Are we going to give anyone up for him?

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 11:00 PM
I'm confused at what's going on with this. We claimed him. Do we want him? Are we going to give anyone up for him?

Supposedly we claimed him. No confirmation. We might have to give up something.

Jays:


They can let the claiming team have Rios and the $60MM-plus remaining on his contract.
They can pull him back from waivers and keep him.
They can work out a deal with the claiming team.

esbrechtel
08-07-2009, 11:01 PM
I am more worried about taking on that salary.....

SoxGirl4Life
08-07-2009, 11:02 PM
Supposedly we claimed him. No confirmation. We might have to give up something.

Jays:


They can let the claiming team have Rios and the $60MM-plus remaining on his contract.
They can pull him back from waivers and keep him.
They can work out a deal with the claiming team.


Thanks. Is there a deadline before we find out?

Viva Medias B's
08-07-2009, 11:02 PM
Thanks. Is there a deadline before we find out?

I think that is Tuesday. We could probably take on his salary next season, but I am not so sure about this one.

DirtySox
08-07-2009, 11:02 PM
Thanks. Is there a deadline before we find out?

I believe it is 48 hours. Could be wrong. I thought I read that somewhere.

whitesoxfan
08-07-2009, 11:04 PM
where does he play? If he plays CF does that make Pods the 4th OF?

No. People need to realize Alex Rios isn't very good and with as good as Pods has been this season, he's not going to the bench for Alex ****ing Rios.

I said it in the game thread; he's OPS'ing .734. For a corner OF, that's horrible. And for the amount of money he's getting paid, that ranks up there as one of the worst current contracts in baseball. The only way I'd take him is if the Jays take on at least half of his contract and if he were the 4th OF. Otherwise, there's absolutely no use for a guy like Rios.

esbrechtel
08-07-2009, 11:06 PM
No. People need to realize Alex Rios isn't very good and with as good as Pods has been this season, he's not going to the bench for Alex ****ing Rios.

I said it in the game thread; he's OPS'ing .734. For a corner OF, that's horrible. And for the amount of money he's getting paid, that ranks up there as one of the worst current contracts in baseball. The only way I'd take him is if the Jays take on at least half of his contract and if he were the 4th OF. Otherwise, there's absolutely no use for a guy like Rios.

Oh I realize that...

I think Rios is overrated personally and am not really all that excited about landing him....

whitesoxfan
08-07-2009, 11:07 PM
Oh I realize that...

I think Rios is overrated personally and am not really all that excited about landing him....

Especially for that contact. I'm as curious as you are to see why exactly Kenny put a claim in on him.

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 11:07 PM
No. People need to realize Alex Rios isn't very good and with as good as Pods has been this season, he's not going to the bench for Alex ****ing Rios.

I said it in the game thread; he's OPS'ing .734. For a corner OF, that's horrible. And for the amount of money he's getting paid, that ranks up there as one of the worst current contracts in baseball. The only way I'd take him is if the Jays take on at least half of his contract and if he were the 4th OF. Otherwise, there's absolutely no use for a guy like Rios.


I rather have Rios playing CF over Pods.

Brian26
08-07-2009, 11:08 PM
Supposedly we claimed him. No confirmation. We might have to give up something.

Jays:


They can let the claiming team have Rios and the $60MM-plus remaining on his contract.
They can pull him back from waivers and keep him.
They can work out a deal with the claiming team.



The only thing I'll add is that there is a 48-hour window to work out a trade, so we should know before Sunday night if Rios is coming to town.

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 11:09 PM
The only thing I'll add is that there is a 48-hour window to work out a trade, so we should know before Sunday night if Rios is coming to town.

tuesday

Daver
08-07-2009, 11:10 PM
The only thing I'll add is that there is a 48-hour window to work out a trade, so we should know before Sunday night if Rios is coming to town.

Nope, weekends don't count, you won't know till Tuesday.

whitesoxfan
08-07-2009, 11:11 PM
I rather have Rios playing CF over Pods.

Defensively, sure. Offensively? Not so much. Pods has been great all year long and he's been an exceptional leadoff hitter. Who's going to lead off if Rios plays over Pods? Getz? Ugh.

I just don't get this. There's better options out there if we want to piss away money on a 4th OF.

voodoochile
08-07-2009, 11:12 PM
Almost every team is slow in the 3-4-5 department. You are a better team when your 3-4-5 hit 35-40 homers without speed then when they hit 15-20 with speed. You want speed 1-2 and 6-7-8-9. You can even live with a slow 6. You rarely get speed out of your sluggers.

And No, Big Time Slow Power hitters are not the thing of the past. Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Albert Pujols, Morneau, Texiera, Pena, Dunn, Gonzalez etc. will all have long successful careers in the mlb without stealing bases.


Shhhh... you're blowing people's minds...:tongue:

Frater Perdurabo
08-07-2009, 11:13 PM
I said it in the game thread; he's OPS'ing .734. For a corner OF, that's horrible. And for the amount of money he's getting paid, that ranks up there as one of the worst current contracts in baseball. The only way I'd take him is if the Jays take on at least half of his contract and if he were the 4th OF. Otherwise, there's absolutely no use for a guy like Rios.

Paul Konerko OPS-ed .704 in 2003. Paulie rebounded, and so will Rios.

Why would the Jays agree to pick up some of the deal, if they can just make the Sox take all of it by letting Rios go to the Sox? At absolute worst, Rios is a major upgrade over Wise for the rest of this year. And most likely, Rios solves our CF problem for the better part of the next decade.

Britt Burns
08-07-2009, 11:13 PM
I sure hope we don't get stuck with all of that huge contract...six years of that eating up resources when Rios is at his best a slightly above average player.

Domeshot17
08-07-2009, 11:13 PM
The only way this makes sense is if we plan on letting 1 of Thome or Dye go, with the other moving to DH (or I guess Pods to DH next year?)

Rockabilly
08-07-2009, 11:14 PM
Defensively, sure. Offensively? Not so much. Pods has been great all year long and he's been an exceptional leadoff hitter. Who's going to lead off if Rios plays over Pods? Getz? Ugh.

I just don't get this. There's better options out there if we want to piss away money on a 4th OF.

I wouldn't mind seeing Beckham lead off for the days that Pods don't start.

Rios is a lot better than a 4th OF

Jaysox
08-07-2009, 11:15 PM
Paul Konerko OPS-ed .704 in 2003. Paulie rebounded, and so will Rios.

Why would the Jays agree to pick up some of the deal, if they can just make the Sox take all of it by letting Rios go to the Sox? At absolute worst, Rios is a major upgrade over Wise for the rest of this year. And most likely, Rios solves our CF problem for the better part of the next decade.

I agree wholefartedly.

voodoochile
08-07-2009, 11:17 PM
The only way this makes sense is if we plan on letting 1 of Thome or Dye go, with the other moving to DH (or I guess Pods to DH next year?)

I think it would be Thome and then the Sox would have a rotataing DH between Pods, TCQ, PK and Dye with Rios filling in the empty OF slot.

Not much LH power on the team if that's the case though.

A. Cavatica
08-07-2009, 11:19 PM
Best thing about Rios? He makes too much money for Ozzie to play Wise ahead of him.

Frater Perdurabo
08-07-2009, 11:22 PM
I sure hope we don't get stuck with all of that huge contract...six years of that eating up resources when Rios is at his best a slightly above average player.

I don't understand this. He's having a down year. From 2006-2008 he's hit .296/.347/.489/.836. For the record, that's pretty close to Paulie's 2006-2008 line of .273/.360/.498/.858, but with the ability to play a more difficult defensive position.

SoxGirl4Life
08-07-2009, 11:22 PM
Best thing about Rios? He makes too much money for Ozzie to play Wise ahead of him.

I don't think Ozzie's ever made up the line-up according to salary

Frater Perdurabo
08-07-2009, 11:23 PM
I don't think Ozzie's ever made up the line-up according to salary

Maybe the Jays will take Wise in exchange for Rios? :bandance:

LoveYourSuit
08-07-2009, 11:38 PM
With how sick I am of watching butcher ball all over the field with this defense....... I would pay for the cab to pick up Alex Rios at the airport.

Whitesoxfan23
08-07-2009, 11:46 PM
I would welcome Rios to the team with open arms. Our outfield defense is pretty bad. Get this done.

Daver
08-07-2009, 11:49 PM
Our outfield defense is pretty bad.


It goes well with the poor infield defense, because winning teams are built on offense and offense only.

JermaineDye05
08-07-2009, 11:53 PM
If the Sox did put a waiver claim on Rios with the intent of making a deal with the Jays, I would be really shocked. It shows that Kenny really does want to win this year and every year for the next 4 years or so. Rios would be a major upgrade over Pods in Center defensively, and that's huge for the team. I really hope that Kenny doesn't intend on trading more top prospects. I like what we have going in the minors right now.

PalehosePlanet
08-07-2009, 11:56 PM
The only way this makes sense is if we plan on letting 1 of Thome or Dye go, with the other moving to DH (or I guess Pods to DH next year?)

Why? This deal, like the Peavy deal, would be with next year in mind more so than now. Rios is probably due only 2 million or so for the remainder of the year. Thome will be gone after this year. Also there is absolutely no guarantee that Pods will be as effective next year as he is now.

Sockinchisox
08-08-2009, 12:03 AM
I gotta think this is just KW blocking the Tigers, but I wouldn't be shocked if we ended up with him.

LoveYourSuit
08-08-2009, 12:05 AM
If the Sox did put a waiver claim on Rios with the intent of making a deal with the Jays, I would be really shocked. It shows that Kenny really does want to win this year and every year for the next 4 years or so. Rios would be a major upgrade over Pods in Center defensively, and that's huge for the team. I really hope that Kenny doesn't intend on trading more top prospects. I like what we have going in the minors right now.

Also, one can only expect Rios numbers will get better by hitting at our park and having some line up protection (not being counted to hit 3rd, 4th or 5th).

Next year for me:

Pods DH
Rios CF
Beckham 3B
Quentin LF
Dye RF
AJ C
Konerko 1B
Alexei SS
Getz 2B

JermaineDye05
08-08-2009, 12:09 AM
Also, one can only expect Rios numbers will get better by hitting at our park and having some line up protection (not being counted to hit 3rd, 4th or 5th).

Next year for me:

Pods DH
Rios CF
Beckham 3B
Quentin LF
Dye RF
AJ C
Konerko 1B
Alexei SS
Getz 2B

As much as Pods has helped us this year, I think you gotta let him go. Put Rios in Right and Dye at DH and make signing Chone Figgins to play CF and lead off your number 1 priority.

CLR01
08-08-2009, 12:10 AM
I gotta think this is just KW blocking the Tigers, but I wouldn't be shocked if we ended up with him.


I really doubt KW would be taking a $60 mil gamble that the Jays won't just say **** it, take him. The Sox can't pull back their claim.

Noneck
08-08-2009, 12:11 AM
Also, one can only expect Rios numbers will get better by hitting at our park and having some line up protection (not being counted to hit 3rd, 4th or 5th).

Next year for me:

Pods DH
Rios CF
Beckham 3B
Quentin LF
Dye RF
AJ C
Konerko 1B
Alexei SS
Getz 2B
Do you really think they will pay for Rios and Dye after getting Peavy? I honestly don't think so.

soxfan43
08-08-2009, 12:12 AM
If JR is fine writing the checks why not? Thome is on his last legs, JD isn't getting any younger and Carlos could go down anyday. It's not like he's going to come here and be the CF-Leadoff hitter everyday this year. This would be an insurance move for this year and would let Ozzie rest some guys without putting Wise or Kotsay in the lineup. Despite the kids coming in and playing well there are still a lot of old guys in the lineup. And then next year he can replace JD or Thome full time. The guy is having a bad year, if that's a deal breaker for some of you why is Paulie on the team still? Or Buehrle after 2006? Baseball is a crazy game, you don't just judge a guy off of one season. Look at his body of work, not too bad.

voodoochile
08-08-2009, 12:18 AM
Do you really think they will pay for Rios and Dye after getting Peavy? I honestly don't think so.

They can, Peavy is just the money from Contreras and Dotel (Pena becomes Dotel in the pen for a lot less money). Then the money from Thome is still there to pay for Rios.

It would mean the infield is back as is.

Also, Pods wouldn't strictly DH, they'd let Dye and TCQ do a bunch of it too. It would be more rotating than it presently is that's all.

Like I said before, there's a hole at LH power in that lineup though and it would make the central part of the lineup almost exclusively RH. I doubt they would bat PK 7th just to bust up the string of righties because his production is just that much higher than AJ's.

Noneck
08-08-2009, 12:20 AM
They can, Peavy is just the money from Contreras and Dotel (Pena becomes Dotel in the pen for a lot less money). Then the money from Thome is still there to pay for Rios.



I think you forgot about Dye. He will want about 20m for 2 years. I doubt he will settle for the one year deal. Maybe he wants 3, this is his last chance for a pay day.

voodoochile
08-08-2009, 12:23 AM
I think you forgot about Dye. He will want about 20m for 2 years.

It doesn't matter. If they can afford to keep payroll the same, they will be able to afford both Rios and Dye (or Rios and Thome) roughly. Of course there will be some salary increases in there, so I don't know how that factors in, but except for those, the salary is just a swap for Thome or Dye.

Edit: Dye has an option also. And even if they do extend him, that's what he is making now, so it's no big deal.

soxfan43
08-08-2009, 12:23 AM
I think you forgot about Dye. He will want about 20m for 2 years. I doubt he will settle for the one year deal. Maybe he wants 3, this is his last chance for a pay day.


Then you keep whoever takes less in the short term, Thome or Dye.

Rockabilly
08-08-2009, 12:23 AM
here are some players that might be traded this off season since they're free agents after next year

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/05/potential-free-agents-for-2011.html

A lot of these players can help the Sox next year.

PalehosePlanet
08-08-2009, 12:24 AM
I think you forgot about Dye. He will want about 20m for 2 years. I doubt he will settle for the one year deal. Maybe he wants 3, this is his last chance for a pay day.

Dye is already making 11.5 this year, so he will take the place of himself.

A. Cavatica
08-08-2009, 12:24 AM
I think Thome's days were numbered already. If we get Rios, it could well be the end for Dye as a White Sox, but we could go year-to-year with him until Danks or Mitchell is ready.

Rios had three pretty good years in a row before this one -- .290+ with lots of extra-base hits and steals. It's not my money. I'd love this pickup if we can get him without giving up prospects.

Noneck
08-08-2009, 12:26 AM
Then you keep whoever takes less in the short term, Thome or Dye.
Good point, if they can work that out.

Now I hope that Rios is obtained, get him here asap.

voodoochile
08-08-2009, 12:27 AM
Breaks down like this:

Current Salary = ~$95M (including Dye at $10M)

-Contreras = $10M
-Dotel = $6M
-Thome = $13.5M

= $66M
+Peavy = $16M
+Rios = $10M

New Salary = $95M (including Dye at $10M)
+ increases.

A. Cavatica
08-08-2009, 12:28 AM
By the way, Baseball Reference has the most-similar-batter to Alex Rios (through age 27) as Bernie Williams. Pretty good player.

Noneck
08-08-2009, 12:29 AM
Edit: Dye has an option also. And even if they do extend him, that's what he is making now, so it's no big deal.
What I read is that mutual option is really not even a option, just written words on a contract.

voodoochile
08-08-2009, 12:30 AM
What I read is that mutual option is really not even a option, just written words on a contract.

I think if the Sox said yes, Dye would accept it, but wouldn't be surprised to see them tear it up and make a new 2 year deal.

Noneck
08-08-2009, 12:31 AM
Breaks down like this:

Current Salary = ~$95M (including Dye at $10M)

-Contreras = $10M
-Dotel = $6M
-Thome = $13.5M

= $66M
+Peavy = $16M
+Rios = $10M

New Salary = $95M (including Dye at $10M)
+ increases.

Looks ok to me unless they decide further cost containment is in order for next year.

voodoochile
08-08-2009, 12:33 AM
Looks ok to me unless they decide further cost containment is in order for next year.

I think the starting rotation alone along with the excitement of Beckham and TCQ being healthy might lead to some increased ticket sales. I think KW is counting on that. If the Sox manage to make the playoffs this year it would help.

soxfan43
08-08-2009, 12:34 AM
I haven't seen anything reported yet in the Chicago media, just Olney's speculation. Anyone seeing anything else?

kruzer31
08-08-2009, 12:34 AM
Buster Olney just said he thinks it was us that claimed Rios. Not sure if this was posted

Noneck
08-08-2009, 12:40 AM
I just hope this doesn't come down to the Jays wanting a marginal player (Fields) and Sox demand salary relief in return. Then the Jays pull him back.

soxfan43
08-08-2009, 12:42 AM
I just hope this doesn't come down to the Jays wanting a marginal player (Fields) and Sox demand salary relief in return. Then the Jays pull him back.

From what I've read and heard they are pretty desperate to dump that salary. If they get a chance to I think he's gone.

TheOneDawg
08-08-2009, 12:55 AM
Does anyone know when we can expect the team who claimed him to be revealed?

CLR01
08-08-2009, 01:12 AM
Does anyone know when we can expect the team who claimed him to be revealed?

I don't think it can be announced until a deal, either trade or player allowed to leave, is official. Everything until or after if neither happpens will all be just be officially speculation. These things are kept quite.

esbrechtel
08-08-2009, 01:14 AM
I don't think it can be announced until a deal, either trade or player allowed to leave, is official. Everything until or after if neither happpens will all be just be officially speculation. These things are kept quite.

Kittle is going to flip....:cower:

CLR01
08-08-2009, 01:17 AM
Kittle is going to flip....:cower:


One word and I'll ban his ass for a month. :smile:

Metalthrasher442
08-08-2009, 01:21 AM
So does are we thinking he'll be the lead off hitter for next season or where he'll bat this season??

Sorry I was out all day and I know crap about this so far.

PalehosePlanet
08-08-2009, 01:24 AM
From what I've read and heard they are pretty desperate to dump that salary. If they get a chance to I think he's gone.

Wouldn't it make more sense though for the Jays to wait until the off-season to trade him? At that time they can talk with more than just one team and have more options.

I still don't think the Jays will trade him right now.

RockJock07
08-08-2009, 01:27 AM
I just hope this doesn't come down to the Jays wanting a marginal player (Fields) and Sox demand salary relief in return. Then the Jays pull him back.

I honestly think that the Jays just want to get rid of Rios' contract at any cost even if that means not getting anything back in return. If this is true I'd ask the jays to pay the remaining balance for this season and call it a day. Both sides win, the sox get the CF of the future without costing anything this season and the Jays get much need payroll relief.

I was debating with a co-worker the other day after Centerfielders. Honestly, there aren't that many elite CF's in the league. This is my top 10.

1. Kemp
2. McClouth
3. Victorino
4. Ellsbury
5. Sizemore
6. Adam Jones
7. Rios
8. Cameron
9. Hamilton
10. Hunter

Point is, Rios is making $9.7 mil next season then $12 in 2010 and 2011 then in 2011 it goes up to $12.5. Rios is still young and should still develop into more of a power hitter at the cell. There are no quality CF's on the FA market this off-season and if this were to be true and the Jays just want salary relief, this is just like signing a premier CF in the prime of his career. Get it done Kenny!

TheOneDawg
08-08-2009, 01:29 AM
I don't think it can be announced until a deal, either trade or player allowed to leave, is official. Everything until or after if neither happpens will all be just be officially speculation. These things are kept quite.


man I really can't wait cause this has me pretty excited. I think that Rios would be really productive for us. I know you here the "change of scenery" cliche but I think this fits him perfectly. I remember that video of him telling Jays fans to **** off in the street, so I think his relationship with the fans may be deteriorating there along with his bad play, but i dunno i'm just speculating that.

CLR01
08-08-2009, 01:29 AM
Wouldn't it make more sense though for the Jays to wait until the off-season to trade him? At that time they can talk with more than just one team and have more options.

I still don't think the Jays will trade him right now.

Didn't they just have the option to trade him and his salary to any team they wanted?

Whitesoxfan23
08-08-2009, 01:47 AM
If this happens, I will be stoked and high five Kenny.

Zisk77
08-08-2009, 02:02 AM
I don't think the Jays will just stick us with Rios's salary and give him to us for nothing. This would piss off the fan base. Imagine us dumping Dye for nothing.
Therefore, I have to think the Jays will be willing to eat some portion of his salary in order to get some prospects.

If they did stick us I don't see where it would be all doom or gloom. I think it would be easy to flip him to the giants of yankees in the off season.

Rios improves the defense, gives us insurance against TCQ or Thome going down. Allows us to play Dye, Pods, TCQ, Thome, & Rios regularly just giving someone different a night of each day.

Essentially we'd have replaced wise & BA. with Rios & Kotsay.

Get Peavy back and catch the bleeping ball and I like our chances.

soxnut1018
08-08-2009, 02:03 AM
I honestly think that the Jays just want to get rid of Rios' contract at any cost even if that means not getting anything back in return. If this is true I'd ask the jays to pay the remaining balance for this season and call it a day. Both sides win, the sox get the CF of the future without costing anything this season and the Jays get much need payroll relief.

I was debating with a co-worker the other day after Centerfielders. Honestly, there aren't that many elite CF's in the league. This is my top 10.

1. Kemp
2. McClouth
3. Victorino
4. Ellsbury
5. Sizemore
6. Adam Jones
7. Rios
8. Cameron
9. Hamilton
10. Hunter

Point is, Rios is making $9.7 mil next season then $12 in 2010 and 2011 then in 2011 it goes up to $12.5. Rios is still young and should still develop into more of a power hitter at the cell. There are no quality CF's on the FA market this off-season and if this were to be true and the Jays just want salary relief, this is just like signing a premier CF in the prime of his career. Get it done Kenny!

No Rowand?
:bundy

Zisk77
08-08-2009, 02:15 AM
No Rowand?
:bundy


He's not as good as Rowadn :redneck

JermaineDye05
08-08-2009, 02:17 AM
Knowing Kenny and the way Sox trades and signings happen. My instincts tell me that nothing is going to happen considering everyone is talking about this now.

As we all know, the deal that is least expected to happen is the one that happens.

Rarely does a deal go down with the Sox when there is a ton of speculation around it.

Whitesoxfan23
08-08-2009, 02:20 AM
Knowing Kenny and the way Sox trades and signings happen. My instincts tell me that nothing is going to happen considering everyone is talking about this now.

As we all know, the deal that is least expected to happen is the one that happens.

Rarely does a deal go down with the Sox when there is a ton of speculation around it.


I agree with this. I doubt anything happens. :(:

Whitesoxfan23
08-08-2009, 02:23 AM
Kenny got us Jake freaking Peavy though, so if it doesn't happen, he gets a pass from me. :D:

hoosiersoxfan
08-08-2009, 02:30 AM
Nice video of Rios after a game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2cxHRLJy6w

chunk
08-08-2009, 02:36 AM
Knowing Kenny and the way Sox trades and signings happen. My instincts tell me that nothing is going to happen considering everyone is talking about this now.

As we all know, the deal that is least expected to happen is the one that happens.

Rarely does a deal go down with the Sox when there is a ton of speculation around it.


Well remember that something has already happened. The claim was put in, and it can't be taken back. So at this point it's not really up to KW unless it's a choice between Rios being taken back or a trade. It's Ricciardi's move right now.

soltrain21
08-08-2009, 02:42 AM
Nice video of Rios after a game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2cxHRLJy6w

I would have told the guy to **** off, too.

MarkZ35
08-08-2009, 02:54 AM
Nice video of Rios after a game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2cxHRLJy6w
Wow. That makes him look like a complete clown. I wonder if he is always like that?

UofCSoxFan
08-08-2009, 02:59 AM
Rios is having a down year but for those saying he's only been sliightly above average even before this year, that's insane. And as bad as his year has been, he's still been better than Quinten. I think Rios still has a ton in the tank...I much rather trade for him where you get salary relief than potentially have to take on the entire salary, so I wouldn't be thrilled with getting him now, but it wouldn't be Armageddon either.

TheOneDawg
08-08-2009, 03:00 AM
Wow. That makes him look like a complete clown. I wonder if he is always like that?


yea there is no excuse for that behavior, but he was coming off an 0-5 with 5 k's I think......If I were in his shoes I probably would have done the same thing.

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-08-2009, 03:08 AM
Didn't bother reading this whole thread, but from what I understand the Sox claimed Alex Rios? He would be a good addition if we got him, but where the hell would he play? Dye and Pods are not going to be benched, and I can't see Quentin becoming the 4th OF. It would be nice to have a back-up in Rios in case Dye isn't re-signed, but at this point wouldn't we have too many guys to play?

TheOneDawg
08-08-2009, 03:41 AM
Didn't bother reading this whole thread, but from what I understand the Sox claimed Alex Rios? He would be a good addition if we got him, but where the hell would he play? Dye and Pods are not going to be benched, and I can't see Quentin becoming the 4th OF. It would be nice to have a back-up in Rios in case Dye isn't re-signed, but at this point wouldn't we have too many guys to play?

no, its all speculation right now....buster olney thinks it was the White Sox but no one really knows for sure

DaveFeelsRight
08-08-2009, 05:18 AM
Didn't bother reading this whole thread, but from what I understand the Sox claimed Alex Rios? He would be a good addition if we got him, but where the hell would he play? Dye and Pods are not going to be benched, and I can't see Quentin becoming the 4th OF. It would be nice to have a back-up in Rios in case Dye isn't re-signed, but at this point wouldn't we have too many guys to play?if he IS claimed by us, this move would be for next year and beyond. if thome doesn't come back, we could put dye in the DH role and slide rios into the OF or pods if doesnt come back, rios will be our CF. but for right now, i assume he'll platoon with pods or whomever. slide him into the DH role if thome needs a break or whatever.

WSox597
08-08-2009, 08:13 AM
There are many worse ways to spend $10 million per year.

Milton Bradley comes to mind.

Rios would be a nice addition to the Sox, and would be a fixture in CF for years to come if he was obtained.

Zisk77
08-08-2009, 08:45 AM
Didn't bother reading this whole thread, but from what I understand the Sox claimed Alex Rios? He would be a good addition if we got him, but where the hell would he play? Dye and Pods are not going to be benched, and I can't see Quentin becoming the 4th OF. It would be nice to have a back-up in Rios in case Dye isn't re-signed, but at this point wouldn't we have too many guys to play?

You play Pods, Dye, Thome, Rios, & Quentin regularly. You simply just rotate who gets a day off. It keeps everyone fresh, allows Ozzie to play match-ups, & is insurance against an injury. The move solves future problems & also blocks the tigers.

dickallen15
08-08-2009, 08:49 AM
Knowing Kenny and the way Sox trades and signings happen. My instincts tell me that nothing is going to happen considering everyone is talking about this now.

As we all know, the deal that is least expected to happen is the one that happens.

Rarely does a deal go down with the Sox when there is a ton of speculation around it.


The thing is, if Kenny claimed him, and Toronto decides they just want out of the contract, there is nothing Kenny can do to stop Toronto from giving him that contract.

To be honest, a waiver claim on that contract would be a deal least expected by me. So that part of the KW MO would be a fit.

parlaycard
08-08-2009, 09:28 AM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/08/buehrles-struggles-continue-in-62-loss-to-cleveland-espn-report-suggests-sox-put-waiver-claim-on-rio.html

This move makes absolutely no sense to me.

I understand how waiver claims work, and i know The Sox dont just get him by picking up his ridicuouls salary.

The dialogue is just opened up now.

But i dont see how the Sox are better by making any deal for Rios.

He has been a major under achiever, and where is he supposed to play this season?

Podsednik is supposed to head to the bench in favor of Rios?

I dont think so.

SoxGirl4Life
08-08-2009, 09:51 AM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/08/buehrles-struggles-continue-in-62-loss-to-cleveland-espn-report-suggests-sox-put-waiver-claim-on-rio.html

This move makes absolutely no sense to me.

I understand how waiver claims work, and i know The Sox dont just get him by picking up his ridicuouls salary.

The dialogue is just opened up now.

But i dont see how the Sox are better by making any deal for Rios.

He has been a major under achiever, and where is he supposed to play this season?

Podsednik is supposed to head to the bench in favor of Rios?

I dont think so.


There's a thread discussing all our consternations in "What's the Score". About 200 posts worth.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2317318#post2317318

kevingrt
08-08-2009, 09:53 AM
There are many worse ways to spend $10 million per year.

Milton Bradley comes to mind.

Rios would be a nice addition to the Sox, and would be a fixture in CF for years to come if he was obtained.

The best thing about Rios is that he is a pretty solid CF'er as well. He isn't going to miss easy fly balls. I really like this move if Kenny can pull it off.

southside rocks
08-08-2009, 10:20 AM
The best thing about Rios is that he is a pretty solid CF'er as well. He isn't going to miss easy fly balls. I really like this move if Kenny can pull it off.

I'd love it if it comes off. More for next year, when Rios and JD could share the RF/DH duties and Rios could spell Pods in CF. Pods in turn can spell Quentin occasionally. Between Quentin, Pods, Dye and Rios, you've got the OF and the DH covered. Because I doubt very much that Thome is coming back.

(That said, I hope Thome finds a team next year and gets to 600 HR. He's a class act and absolutely should be HOF.)

GAsoxfan
08-08-2009, 10:30 AM
I'd love it if it comes off. More for next year, when Rios and JD could share the RF/DH duties and Rios could spell Pods in CF. Pods in turn can spell Quentin occasionally. Between Quentin, Pods, Dye and Rios, you've got the OF and the DH covered. Because I doubt very much that Thome is coming back.

(That said, I hope Thome finds a team next year and gets to 600 HR. He's a class act and absolutely should be HOF.)

If the Sox end up getting Rios, I hope the 2010 OF rotation is:

Quentin - RF
Rios - CF
Pods - LF
Dye - DH/4th OF

If 2009 is just a down year for Rios, and not the continuation of a downward trend, he could be a very good CF for the Sox in 2010. Last year, he was 33rd in the AL in OPS.

Hitmen77
08-08-2009, 11:33 AM
Breaks down like this:

Current Salary = ~$95M (including Dye at $10M)

-Contreras = $10M
-Dotel = $6M
-Thome = $13.5M

= $66M
+Peavy = $16M
+Rios = $10M

New Salary = $95M (including Dye at $10M)
+ increases.

Though a smaller amount, the $2.6 million we owe MacDougal comes off the books next year.

Is all of Thome's amount for 2009 coming out of the Sox pockets? I thought the Phillies were eating part of his salary. If so, losing Thome may only free up something like $8 million.

I'm surprised that Dotel is getting paid $6 million/year!

Noneck
08-08-2009, 11:39 AM
Though a smaller amount, the $2.6 million we owe MacDougal comes off the books next year.



I would expect that savings to go to Jenks through arbitration.

parlaycard
08-08-2009, 11:44 AM
If the Sox end up getting Rios, I hope the 2010 OF rotation is:

Quentin - RF
Rios - CF
Pods - LF
Dye - DH/4th OF

If 2009 is just a down year for Rios, and not the continuation of a downward trend, he could be a very good CF for the Sox in 2010. Last year, he was 33rd in the AL in OPS.


you dont pay MORE THAN top dollar for a guy who's stats are trending downward.

Milton Bradley was paid $30 million for 3 years
Abreu 1 year for $5 million
Pat Burrell 2 years $16 million
Ibanez 3 years $31.5 million
Dunn 2 years $10 million
Juan Rivera 3 years $12 million

Free agent conmtracts are getting smaller and smaller in this economy.


Rios: $5.9 million in 2009
$9.7 million in 2010
$12 million each in 2011 and 2012
$12.5 million apiece in 2013 and 2014.
$13.5 million team option for 2015 with a $1 million buyout.

ARE YOU CRAZY? This is not a Kenny Williams move unless Toronto pays 60%, and we all know thats not going to happen.

You can trade for Adam Dunn in the off season as that experiment hasnt worked out for the Nats. And theres your DH., a one year deal.

Plus there are MUCH BETTER players that will be available with smaller pricetags.

This Rios rumor is insane. Pure insanity.

And some of the people complained about the money Peavy was going to get.

Only difference, Peavy is a good player and worth it.

Lillian
08-08-2009, 11:51 AM
The more I think about this potential acquisition, the more sense it makes to me. There are three main considerations:

1) In the post steroid era, offense will rely less on the home run, and more on speed and on base percentage. The Sox have too many slow sluggers.

2) Indirectly related to the post steroid era, I don't think that we are going to continue to see many players performing at a high level late into their late 30's and even early 40's. I understand that today's athletes are better conditioned than they used to be, but we have to remember that guys like Bonds and Clemens were probably only able to do what they did because of PEDS. Having both Dye and Thome on this team next year is hoping that somehow they will escape the effects of age.

3) This team has been very bad defensively. They simply cannot continue to play the current outfield and expect to improve the defense.
Rios in CF with Quentin in RF and either Pods, Kotsay, or an acquisition in LF would be the minimum defensive upgrade needed.
Having a real centerfielder not only improves that position but it also takes some of the pressure and responsibility off of the corner outfielders.

All of that said, it will depend upon exactly how much Rios would cost the Sox. Paying all of that contract would be problematical.
If they bring one slow slugger back, he should be the DH. We've all talked about the merits of the various options. Although Thome gives us the left handed bat, and could probably be signed for less than Dye, his age and inability to play a position, if needed, are big disadvantages. Maybe the option should come from outside the organization.

dickallen15
08-08-2009, 11:54 AM
If Rios was a free agent after this season, would he be offerred a 5 year $59 million deal with a $13.5 million option for a 6th?

parlaycard
08-08-2009, 11:56 AM
If Rios was a free agent after this season, would he be offerred a 5 year $59 million deal with a $13.5 million option for a 6th?

absolutely not

no way in hell

Maybe someone could put together a list of players who make more than $12 million per year and we can see how Rios stacks up.

kevingrt
08-08-2009, 11:56 AM
absolutely not

no way in hell

Who cares about money. The economy is thriving.

Paulwny
08-08-2009, 11:58 AM
The more I think about this potential acquisition, the more sense it makes to me. There are three main considerations:

1) In the post steroid era, offense will rely less on the home run, and more on speed and on base percentage. The Sox have too many slow sluggers.

2) Indirectly related to the post steroid era, I don't think that we are going to continue to see many players performing at a high level late into their late 30's and even early 40's. I understand that today's athletes are better conditioned than they used to be, but we have to remember that guys like Bonds and Clemens were probably only able to do what they did because of PEDS. Having both Dye and Thome on this team next year is hoping that somehow they will escape the effects of age.

3) This team has been very bad defensively. They simply cannot continue to play the current outfield and expect to improve the defense.
Rios in CF with Quentin in RF and either Pods, Kotsay, or an acquisition in LF would be the minimum defensive upgrade needed.
Having a real centerfielder not only improves that position but it also takes some of the pressure and responsibility off of the corner outfielders.

All of that said, it will depend upon exactly how much Rios would cost the Sox. Paying all of that contract would be problematical.
If they bring one slow slugger back, he should be the DH. We've all talked about the merits of the various options. Although Thome gives us the left handed bat, and could probably be signed for less than Dye, his age and inability to play a position, if needed, are big disadvantages. Maybe the option should come from outside the organization.


I agree with this.
Rios immediately improves the outfield defense. When you look at his offensive numbers they're so so for a corner outfielder, but for a cf position the'y not bad.

oeo
08-08-2009, 12:03 PM
If the Sox end up getting Rios, I hope the 2010 OF rotation is:

Quentin - RF
Rios - CF
Pods - LF
Dye - DH/4th OF

If 2009 is just a down year for Rios, and not the continuation of a downward trend, he could be a very good CF for the Sox in 2010. Last year, he was 33rd in the AL in OPS.

That's still a bad defensive outfield. I'd rather move Rios to RF and bring someone else in to play CF, or bring someone into play RF and play Rios in CF. I know Pods will always hold that special place, but he's a worse defender than Mackowiak, and Mackowiak was hated around here because of his defense.

Moving Carlos to RF can end. The rumors of him being a good defender were wrong. He has a strong arm, but is inconsistent with it, and very rarely is he accurate with it. Keep him in LF.

Noneck
08-08-2009, 12:22 PM
Moving Carlos to RF can end. The rumors of him being a good defender were wrong. He has a strong arm, but is inconsistent with it, and very rarely is he accurate with it. Keep him in LF.


I totally agree. The more I watch Quentin I have realized he is just barely average in left. No way should he ever be in right.

Rockabilly
08-08-2009, 12:24 PM
If Rios does join the Sox this week does Beckham give up his #15

kruzer31
08-08-2009, 12:29 PM
If Rios does join the Sox this week does Beckham give up his #15


No, Beckham is better then Rios.... Way better.

Rockabilly
08-08-2009, 12:43 PM
Harold Reyonlds was on XM radio and he reported that the Sox are the team that claimed Rios. He also said the Jays are looking to sign Bay this off season since he is from Canada.

RockJock07
08-08-2009, 12:50 PM
you dont pay MORE THAN top dollar for a guy who's stats are trending downward.

Milton Bradley was paid $30 million for 3 years
Abreu 1 year for $5 million
Pat Burrell 2 years $16 million
Ibanez 3 years $31.5 million
Dunn 2 years $10 million
Juan Rivera 3 years $12 million

Free agent conmtracts are getting smaller and smaller in this economy.


Rios: $5.9 million in 2009
$9.7 million in 2010
$12 million each in 2011 and 2012
$12.5 million apiece in 2013 and 2014.
$13.5 million team option for 2015 with a $1 million buyout.

ARE YOU CRAZY? This is not a Kenny Williams move unless Toronto pays 60%, and we all know thats not going to happen.

You can trade for Adam Dunn in the off season as that experiment hasnt worked out for the Nats. And theres your DH., a one year deal.

Plus there are MUCH BETTER players that will be available with smaller pricetags.

This Rios rumor is insane. Pure insanity.

And some of the people complained about the money Peavy was going to get.

Only difference, Peavy is a good player and worth it.

You have a Adam Dunn right now in Jim Thome. Dunn is also making $12 million not $10 million next season, he signed a 2 year deal in the off-season, 2 years, $20 mil, 8 this year then $12 next season. I love Adam Dunn however I'd rather spend the $9.7 mil on Rios who can play a excellent CF and is still 2 years younger than Adam Dunn.

Point is, would you like to spend $12 on a guy that mashes like Dunn but plays awful defense or $12 on a guy that plays premier defense and is in the prime of his career?

Also, why the hell would the Jays pay %60 of that contract? The whole point of this is to not pay him that money considering the Jays have Wells' contract and they could probably re-sign Halliday and scutaro.

DumpJerry
08-08-2009, 12:53 PM
I totally agree. The more I watch Quentin I have realized he is just barely average in left. No way should he ever be in right.
Actaully, RF is TCQ's normal position.

TheOldRoman
08-08-2009, 12:53 PM
No, Beckham is better then Rios.... Way better.Well, Beckham had always been number 6, but the Sox won't let him wear it. It was "unofficially retired" for Charlie Lau. I think that is a pretty lame policy to begin with. It has been 25 years, they need to move on an reissue the number if they aren't going to officially retire it (and they shouldn't). What better guy than Beckham to give the number to? With the talent this kid has, there is a good chance that if he stays healthy and with the Sox, nobody will wear it after him, anyway. It isn't like they are giving it to Timo Perez.

parlaycard
08-08-2009, 01:08 PM
Point is, would you like to spend $12 on a guy that mashes like Dunn but plays awful defense or $12 on a guy that plays premier defense and is in the prime of his career?

Also, why the hell would the Jays pay %60 of that contract? The whole point of this is to not pay him that money considering the Jays have Wells' contract and they could probably re-sign Halliday and scutaro.

Dunn wouldnt play the field. He should be acquired to be a DH.

The Jays should eat part of the contract, because Rios has a ridiculous contract. He isnt worth close to that money. Do i think the Jays will eat one cent? No. Just like Halladay was never actually available.

The Sox arent getting Rios.

He is not Torii Hunter defensively either, like many posters here think. His 3 errors this season are less than stellar.

Rohan
08-08-2009, 01:17 PM
Dunn wouldnt play the field. He should be acquired to be a DH.

The Jays should eat part of the contract, because Rios has a ridiculous contract. He isnt worth close to that money. Do i think the Jays will eat one cent? No. Just like Halladay was never actually available.

The Sox arent getting Rios.

He is not Torii Hunter defensively either, like many posters here think. His 3 errors this season are less than stellar.

The Sox ARE getting Rios. There's no reason for them not to. He's hit near .300 nearly every year in the bigs. And compare that three errors to all of our outfielders and he's a FANTASTIC outfielder.

We're freeing up a lot of money next year with Contereras, and Thome...

Rohan
08-08-2009, 01:20 PM
Actaully, RF is TCQ's normal position.

TCQ is at this point our best defensive fielder. Dye can definitely make some crazy catches, but TCQ can as well if given the opportunity. And TCQ is simply more consistent.

+Dye's arm has waned a little bit while Quentin's is pretty strong.

chunk
08-08-2009, 01:20 PM
^^Dye makes crazy catches, but even average defenders make most of those plays look easy. Those injuries have just devastated his mobility. Still, I'd rather keep Dye than Thome since he can still "play" a position.


He has a great arm and plays good D. Something we have been sorely lacking. His BABIP is 40 points off of his career numbers, indicating a lot of bad luck in a down year. Plus, he's getting paid fairly. If we put him in CF where he belongs he's absolutely worth it.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/rios-wells

oeo
08-08-2009, 01:23 PM
+Dye's arm has waned a little bit while Quentin's is pretty strong.

I don't know what games you've been watching. Dye still has a strong and accurate arm. The key word being accurate. It doesn't matter how strong your arm is if you can't get it where it needs to be. Besides, I haven't seen Quentin show any consistency with his arm strength since the day he got here. The one thing he does do consistently is overthrow the cutoff man.

I would also say that some of the routes Carlos takes to balls makes Dye, even in his mid-30's, comparably defensively.

KRS1
08-08-2009, 01:23 PM
He is not Torii Hunter defensively either, like many posters here think. His 3 errors this season are less than stellar.

When will the statheads learn? Judging defense based on stats is bad, judging OF D on stats is worse. Seriously, Es in the outfield are about as good an indicator of defensive prowess as triples are for hitting. Hell, by the standard of judging an OF based on errors, Carlos Lee should have a shelf full of gold gloves.

RedPinStripes
08-08-2009, 01:28 PM
When will the statheads learn. Judging defense based on stats is bad, judging OF D on stats is worse. Seriously, Es in the outfield are about as good an indicator of defensive prowess as triples are for hitting. Hell, by the standard of judging an OF based on errors, Carlos Lee should have a shelf full of gold gloves.

Oh he was BAD! He was known as "Dumbass Caballo" to me. Great hitter. That's it.

parlaycard
08-08-2009, 01:35 PM
The Sox ARE getting Rios. There's no reason for them not to. He's hit near .300 nearly every year in the bigs. And compare that three errors to all of our outfielders and he's a FANTASTIC outfielder.

We're freeing up a lot of money next year with Contereras, and Thome...


Really? He is currently hitting .261

.261 is not nearly .300

I guess AJ is nearly hitting .350

Cmon. If were going to discuss this, can we please get our facts straight?

chunk
08-08-2009, 01:38 PM
When will the statheads learn? Judging defense based on stats is bad, judging OF D on stats is worse. Seriously, Es in the outfield are about as good an indicator of defensive prowess as triples are for hitting. Hell, by the standard of judging an OF based on errors, Carlos Lee should have a shelf full of gold gloves.


As you said errors in the outfield are not a good stat for judging defense. Statheads or sabermetricians or whatever don't use them. However, UZR is a pretty good system and rates him favorably.

KRS1
08-08-2009, 01:38 PM
Really? He is currently hitting .261

.261 is not nearly .300

I guess AJ is nearly hitting .350

Cmon. If were going to discuss this, can we please get our facts straight?

He also said "nearly every year in the bigs," which is pretty true. The guy is a 285 career hitter coming off of three straight with a 291+ average, but hey, it's always best to judge a player based on his most recent stats that are the exception and not the rule to a career.

Rockabilly
08-08-2009, 01:41 PM
Really? He is currently hitting .261

.261 is not nearly .300

I guess AJ is nearly hitting .350

Cmon. If were going to discuss this, can we please get our facts straight?


Rios is doing a lot better than Quentin is this year. Rios is a star player who is having a down year in avg but he still has more doubles than almost everyone on the Sox.

Rios playing at the Cell most of the year will be close to a 30/30 guy with being a great defensive outfielder

Metalthrasher442
08-08-2009, 01:43 PM
So is there any new news on him? Nothing has been made official yet, but does it sound like the Sox might have him?

Rockabilly
08-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Rios just hit a HR

KRS1
08-08-2009, 01:44 PM
As you said errors in the outfield are not a good stat for judging defense. Statheads or sabermetricians or whatever don't use them. However, UZR is a pretty good system and rates him favorably.

Forget all the YVQPNDYT stuff and watch a player play. He very much IS a darn good defender. He gets good reads and jumps, take good routes, has a good arm, and his speed only adds to the range that comes with all that stuff. His one big flaw that I see is a tendency to be a tad overaggressive in his play, going after balls he should back off of and take on a hop/bounce off the wall.

Rohan
08-08-2009, 01:46 PM
Really? He is currently hitting .261

.261 is not nearly .300

I guess AJ is nearly hitting .350

Cmon. If were going to discuss this, can we please get our facts straight?

I gave you straight facts. He's hit above .285 in 4 of his 5 seasons in the big leagues.. I mean come on dude.. It's not like i told some great lie. The man can hit...

Whitesoxfan23
08-08-2009, 01:49 PM
Is anyone else doubting that this gets done?

Noneck
08-08-2009, 01:49 PM
Actaully, RF is TCQ's normal position.

Yes I know in Arizona he played there. I just have not seen enough in left that would make me think he should be an everyday RFer. Would you want him to be the everyday RFer?

Whitesoxfan23
08-08-2009, 01:51 PM
He could also reject a trade here. That would suck.

Rohan
08-08-2009, 01:51 PM
Is anyone else doubting that this gets done?

A tiny bit. But I still think it's going to happen in the next two days.

Rohan
08-08-2009, 01:52 PM
He could also reject a trade here. That would suck.

Why on earth would he do that. Chicago > Toronto :bandance:

And I don't think he has a no trade clause..

Noneck
08-08-2009, 01:53 PM
He could also reject a trade here. That would suck.

Why do you say that?

DirtySox
08-08-2009, 01:54 PM
Why on earth would he do that. Chicago > Toronto :bandance:

And I don't think he has a no trade clause..

He does have one.

Rockabilly
08-08-2009, 01:54 PM
Why on earth would he do that. Chicago > Toronto :bandance:

And I don't think he has a no trade clause..

He does have a no trade clause but don't think he can reject it on a waiver deal

jsg-07
08-08-2009, 01:55 PM
For the people against us getting him, let me ask this. Then who?

Seriously?

Are there any FA CF'ers we can get for next year? Because I dont know about you but I cannot sit through another year of Pods in CF (Let me also add that I completely understand why he is there right now).

Getting Rios gives us a CF'er for a few years until the young guys (Danks or the kid from LSU, cannot remember his name at the moment) can get up if they can even make it. When they do, Rios can go to RF.

We have not had a good CF'er, in my opinion since "one dog" so at this point, I am desparate to see someone out there who is average or above at the position.

Plus, going into the offseason, IF (a big if granted) we can re-sign Pods to a cheap deal and keep Dye to DH, we really don't NEED much more (maybe an arm or two in the BP and a 5th starter. Then if something better comes up for lead off than Pod's you take it, but you certainly dont need it if he can continue at the pace he is on (which I know is not a guaranty, but what is in baseball?).

Then you have for next year a starting line up of..

Pods-LF
Rios- CF
TCQ- RF
PK-1B
Getz 2B
CM-SS
Gordon -3B
AJ - C
Dye - DH

I like that lineup and with our 1-4 pitching staff for next year.. that looks like a winner to me.

If something better comes up for the infield, you have flexability to move Gordon to second or if something better comes up for the outfield that gives us a leadoff hitter you can put move Rios to CF or RF or TCQ in LF or RF to make room for a potential lead of LF'er / CF'er...

As for the rest of the season, you rotate the OF positions with DH keeping everyone rested and ready to go for the playoffs should we make it.

One other thing to touch on people. The time to win is NOW. The Twins are going to SUCK next year when they get the **** out of that piece of **** dome they play in and have to play in real conditions like everyone else. Cleveland is going to be out for a few years and Detroit is getting older. This is OUR TIME TO WIN. We need to take advantage of it. If we do... then people come to the games and money is not an issue. As I think Vodoo pointed out earlier in the thread, doing this with what comes off the books keeps around $95 mil. I promise you, if we make a serious run at and in the playoffs this year and have a good year next year people will come to the park and it would not surprise me to see Kenny and JR have a payroll over 100 mil if need be.

Bottom line, is if, we dont take advantage of the situation in the division that we have, when the hell are we ever going to be positioned to sustain winning like this??

end rant...

Noneck
08-08-2009, 01:55 PM
He does have one.
I just saw that. Damn, he really got one sweet contract.

JermaineDye05
08-08-2009, 01:55 PM
He could also reject a trade here. That would suck.

That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I like Rios, but that's a lot of money for him. At least with Peavy he's been a bonafide ace pitcher, granted it was in the NL and in Petco. However have an ERA below 3 in 4 of your last 5 seasons is damn good regardless of where you play. Rios has been slightly above average in his last couple of seasons. I worry that the contract could tie the hands of the Sox for the forseeable future. However if Kenny does intend on acquiring Alex, I would assume and hope that he has a clear cut plan for the offseason.

KRS1
08-08-2009, 01:56 PM
Why on earth would he do that. Chicago > Toronto :bandance:

And I don't think he has a no trade clause..

I think he does, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would stay in that division in lieu of joining one where his new team has a chance to win it every year.

DirtySox
08-08-2009, 01:57 PM
He does have a no trade clause but don't think he can reject it on a waiver deal

I believe this is correct.

Whitesoxfan23
08-08-2009, 02:00 PM
I just think that the bluejays will ask for too much and then the deal won't get made