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doublem23
08-06-2009, 02:51 AM
Your 2009 White Sox...

Don't be shy.

Irishsoxfan
08-06-2009, 03:37 AM
A great team right now but truly a high ceiling of potential

central44
08-06-2009, 03:55 AM
Factor in the horrible start to the season, and the Sox are a much better team than their record would indicate. I personally think they're as good as any team in baseball, seeing as how they've won series vs. the Yankees, Rays, Angels, and Dodgers convincingly.

They could stand to improve defensivley though...

tsoxman
08-06-2009, 05:40 AM
Factor in the horrible start to the season, and the Sox are a much better team than their record would indicate. I personally think they're as good as any team in baseball, seeing as how they've won series vs. the Yankees, Rays, Angels, and Dodgers convincingly.

They could stand to improve defensivley though...

Cant say that this is even a great team given their defensive liabilities

DumpJerry
08-06-2009, 07:43 AM
I would say "pretty darn good." "Great?" I'm not ready to call them that yet.

Dibbs
08-06-2009, 07:55 AM
Unfortunately I can not vote in this poll. I hope they are a great team by the end of the year. They have been great to watch this last week.

TornLabrum
08-06-2009, 07:57 AM
The '27 Yankees were a great team. The '59 Sox were a very good team. The '09 Sox are 4 games above .500 and in second place in a bad division. That qualifies them (so far) as mediocre.

Edit: I forgot to mention: They have the eighth best record in a 14-team league.

Bucky F. Dent
08-06-2009, 07:57 AM
A very good team - can't be considered a great team until they get their defense in order.

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-06-2009, 08:20 AM
I voted great though they're not there yet - pretty darn good.

Peavy's back on the hill and they take a 5 game lead over Detroit and Minnesota, and steamroll the WC in the ALDS....then I might go great.

They win it all....and, well.....:D:

LITTLE NELL
08-06-2009, 08:21 AM
Right now I'm pretty excited about this team but I was also excited after our last homestand and then we hit the skids in Motown and Minny.
We are 4 games over .500, thats not great but we are in the race and if you win the division anything can happen in the playoffs.

Frater Perdurabo
08-06-2009, 08:23 AM
The '27 Yankees were a great team. The '59 Sox were a very good team. The '09 Sox are 4 games above .500 and in second place in a bad division. That qualifies them (so far) as mediocre.

I completely understand and agree with your point, but I also think you are being too selective with your choice of words. Specifically, to call the '27 Yankees "great" seems to damn them with faint praise. I'd call them "epic" or "once in a lifetime."

The Sox are in the weakest division in the overwhelmingly stronger league. There are no cupcakes in the AL, but every team has flaws, and when these teams beat up on one another day by day, those flaws are greatly exposed.

I'd call the 2009 Sox "decent."

jabrch
08-06-2009, 08:27 AM
I'll stick with my position since day one.

This team could play good enough to beat anyone and could play bad enough to lose to anyone.

spawn
08-06-2009, 08:31 AM
I'll stick with my position since day one.

This team could play good enough to beat anyone and could play bad enough to lose to anyone.
Way to take a stand. :tongue:

soxfanreggie
08-06-2009, 08:33 AM
I can call them a "great" team after they're in the World Series, "very, very good" if I find them in the ALCS.

Scottiehaswheels
08-06-2009, 08:38 AM
I'm waiting for the option of lose 3 games in a row and everyone calls for your head on a churro. :D:

jabrch
08-06-2009, 08:58 AM
Way to take a stand. :tongue:

I don't like to get too high after a few good games anymore than I want to throw my ass off a bridge after a few bad games. Just look at the last 4 serieses....

I don't think this team is YET a great team. But if Jake comes back and dominates, TCQ is healthy, and Beckham continues to hit like this, there is that potential.

russ99
08-06-2009, 09:06 AM
Where's "Has inherent flaws, but could surprise in the end"?

Let's see how things work out this season before applying the word "great".

ShoelessJoeS
08-06-2009, 09:07 AM
Best. Team. Ever.

Lillian
08-06-2009, 09:31 AM
I'm not trying to hijack this thread but to me the more interesting question is how does this team compare to our World Champions of 2005:

LF Quentin vs Pods (Pods is a better player now than he was then)
CF Pods vs Rowand (Rowand couldn't carry TCQ's jock, if healthy, so at least offensively the combo of Pods and TCQ is better, than Pods and Rowand)
Rf Dye vs Dye (4 years older but having a better year)
3B Beckham vs Crede (What do you think? I'll take the kid)
SS Ramirez vs Uribe (Edge to Alexei, if he gets his head out of his #
2B Getz vs Iguchi (This is a toss up)
1B Konerko vs Konerko (Very much the same player)
C A. J. vs A.J. (He's having a better year)
DH Thome vs Thomas (Lost for most of the season)
Everett (Jim is a better hitter than Everett was then)

Bench

Castro vs Widger (Edge to Castro on offense and defense)
Kotsay vs Gload (Very comparable)
Nix vs Ozuna (Better Defense and Offense from Nix, except less speed)
Wise vs Harris (Similar players)

Rotation

Peavy vs Garcia (We'll see)
Buerhle vs Buerhle (I like his performance this year over 05)
Floyd vs Garland (Floyd has much better stuff)
Danks vs 'El Duque' (he was the 5th starter)
Contreras vs Contreras (he now has the role of 5th starter, as he is not even close to the same pitcher)

Bullpen

Jenks vs Jenks (He was more dominating then)
Thornton vs Cotts (Thornton's stuff is better but Cotts had a great fluke of a year)
Dotel vs Politte
Linebrink vs Hermanson
Carrassco vs Vizcaino
Pena vs Marte

The current team has more potential than the 05' squad, but will they get it done on the field?

Hitmen77
08-06-2009, 11:29 AM
They have the potential to be a great team, but they have to stop this hot/cold/hot/cold crap or else they'll continue to hover around .500.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. If the Sox win today, that'll make them 7-7 in their last 14 games......and that's IF they win today. Winning a series from the red-hot Angels is certainly great, but I want to see a sweep. When was the last time the Sox swept a team? They can never seem to close the deal. I think this division is going to go down to the wire and with 6 games left at Detroit and Minnesota, they're going to need to start getting some series sweeps before we start lauding them with "greatness."

LoveYourSuit
08-06-2009, 11:43 AM
Wow, Doub left us a bit thin with the options here.

I guess C) None of the above.


This team is "average to good" with the potential of being "good to great" when Peavy comes back.

Great teams not always win the World Series. So there is hope.

TDog
08-06-2009, 11:45 AM
I...

The Sox are in the weakest division in the overwhelmingly stronger league. There are no cupcakes in the AL, but every team has flaws, and when these teams beat up on one another day by day, those flaws are greatly exposed.

I'd call the 2009 Sox "decent."

The American League isn't that much better than the National League. the AL doesn't have as many weak teams, but they don't have as many teams. The Phillies, Dodgers and Giants wouldn't have trouble winning in the AL.

The Rays might have trouble winning in the NL, playing a schedule where they didn't play the Marlins for one-third of their games if you go by their 17-15 record against the weak AL Central. The only team they have a winning record against is the Royals, winning 9 of 10 against them. The Rays haven't played the Tigers at all, and I hope they get their act together for those 7 games. Unfortunately, the White Sox are 23-25 against the Central, the only division against which they have a losing record.

But saying the White Sox now have a mediocre team because they are just four games above .500 ignores that the Sox have evolved. The White Sox offensively this season started with Wise, the starting centerfielder, striking out. Josh Fields, the starting third baseman, drove in the first White Sox run of 2009.

If the White Sox of April and May were as good as the White Sox of early August, the Tigers wouldn't be in first place.

This year's White Sox team has grown into a team that is a lot better than decent.

voodoochile
08-06-2009, 11:48 AM
Whatever the naysayers will say, it's a great poll...:D:

I don't even miss the churro's option.

If greatness can be measured by how a team/person overcomes adversity, this year's group clearly qualifies.

Give it a month and ask this question again, I bet some of the fence sitters will have a better opinion.

Oh and it matters not to me how the team played earlier in the season. If this team continues to gel and win games and Peavy can come back and contribute his magic, this team is plenty great.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-06-2009, 11:49 AM
I wouldn't go so far to call this team the greatest in Sox history, but it's definitely been a fun team to watch but also frustrating at times.

This year's team is better than last year's.

Stoky44
08-06-2009, 11:50 AM
I am sorry, but this team is far from great. I like the team and think they will make the playoffs. BUt come on great? We are not even in 1st place in the worse division in baseball. Not good defensively. A week ago if this thread came up after getting swept in Minn it would have been laughed at and mocked to the Road House. We are only a handful of games above .500. In my mind great teams win +95-97 games.

I like this team, they are doing pretty good. Would say they are in the top 10 teams in baseball. For sure not the best team in baseball, which would be needed for me to call the team great.

Letter grade for the team: B

hawkjt
08-06-2009, 11:59 AM
The Tigers/Twins series just snap a fan back to reality every time we want to get carried away. If they had just gone 4-3 on that road trip, the temptation to label them as a good to budding great team would be hard to resist,but, 1-6 is a reality check that reminds how the bats just can go frigid and the bullpen can blow leads.

There is an air of confidence re-building quickly tho, or as Gonzolez penned in the trib today '' sense of invinciblity'' about the club right now.

I am cautious by nature, but for this week...I love this team.

LoveYourSuit
08-06-2009, 12:11 PM
Whatever the naysayers will say, it's a great poll...:D:

I don't even miss the churro's option.

If greatness can be measured by how a team/person overcomes adversity, this year's group clearly qualifies.

Give it a month and ask this question again, I bet some of the fence sitters will have a better opinion.

Oh and it matters not to me how the team played earlier in the season. If this team continues to gel and win games and Peavy can come back and contribute his magic, this team is plenty great.


What adversity have we overcomed :scratch:

VeeckAsInWreck
08-06-2009, 12:28 PM
What adversity have we overcomed :scratch:

All of them? :scratch:

beasly213
08-06-2009, 12:32 PM
This team compared to the 05 team has one major difference.

Defense. Our defense is flat out bad this year and that could factor in huge during September.

voodoochile
08-06-2009, 12:49 PM
What adversity have we overcomed :scratch:

Fields, Lilibridge, BA, Wise, Colon, Owens, TCQ's injury, Bobby Jenks struggles and injury, etc.

:D:

SoxFan1979
08-06-2009, 12:59 PM
Is there any "great" team in baseball? I don't think so. All the top teams have their flaws including the mighty Sox. They can match up as we've seen with the best of them. They also can blow chunks vs the worst of them.

I am liking this nice little home stand though. :smile:

TornLabrum
08-06-2009, 02:58 PM
The American League isn't that much better than the National League. the AL doesn't have as many weak teams, but they don't have as many teams. The Phillies, Dodgers and Giants wouldn't have trouble winning in the AL.

The Rays might have trouble winning in the NL, playing a schedule where they didn't play the Marlins for one-third of their games if you go by their 17-15 record against the weak AL Central. The only team they have a winning record against is the Royals, winning 9 of 10 against them. The Rays haven't played the Tigers at all, and I hope they get their act together for those 7 games. Unfortunately, the White Sox are 23-25 against the Central, the only division against which they have a losing record.

But saying the White Sox now have a mediocre team because they are just four games above .500 ignores that the Sox have evolved. The White Sox offensively this season started with Wise, the starting centerfielder, striking out. Josh Fields, the starting third baseman, drove in the first White Sox run of 2009.

If the White Sox of April and May were as good as the White Sox of early August, the Tigers wouldn't be in first place.

This year's White Sox team has grown into a team that is a lot better than decent.

The Sox are now four over .500. A few days ago they were one game under .500 iirc. So far, they are mediocre, as the last road trip showed. SO FAR (as I said in the comment that you referred to about mediocrity).

mark2olson
08-06-2009, 03:20 PM
We have reasons to be encouraged. Our young players are doing well, our veterans are doing well. We've played well as of late...reasons to be encouraged if not enthusiastic. These are not, however, reasons that would justify a classification of great.

BadBobbyJenks
08-06-2009, 06:24 PM
All I know is we are going to be celebrating another world series in the next 3 years.

Crestani
08-06-2009, 06:56 PM
:scratch: A great team? I don't think so. A team with some potential to be good, yes. Even the 2005 Sox weren't a great team, just a very good team that got hot at the right time.

wassagstdu
08-06-2009, 07:01 PM
A pretty good team on some days -- about 50% of days. But a team with a promising future!

doublem23
08-06-2009, 07:03 PM
Best. Team. Ever.

Finally someone gets in the spirit of things.

wassagstdu
08-06-2009, 07:05 PM
:scratch: A great team? I don't think so. A team with some potential to be good, yes. Even the 2005 Sox weren't a great team, just a very good team that got hot at the right time.

The 2005 Sox were a great team at a certain point, the end of 2005. However, there has to be some time period over which greatness is averaged, i guess. I would say a whole season minimum -- or a whole postseason ...

BadBobbyJenks
08-06-2009, 08:26 PM
:scratch: A great team? I don't think so. A team with some potential to be good, yes. Even the 2005 Sox weren't a great team, just a very good team that got hot at the right time.

The 2005 team went wire to wire, lead the league in wins at almost every mileage point and finished one win behind the Cardinals who had 100.

The 2005 White Sox were great and the best team in baseball for all but some of September. I hate hearing this nonsense about getting hot at the right time.

SBSoxFan
08-06-2009, 11:19 PM
The Sox are now four over .500. A few days ago they were one game under .500 iirc. So far, they are mediocre, as the last road trip showed. SO FAR (as I said in the comment that you referred to about mediocrity).

I don't think that's right. After Buehrle's perfect game, I think, they were a high-water mark 5 games over 500. Then went 1-6 on the road trip. That would have brought them back home at 500. Since then they've gone 5-2 to sit at 56-53 today.

Constantly winning 2 of 3 doesn't sound like much, but it adds up over a season. The Sox could be looking at 90+ wins. Plus, haven't they had one of the better records in baseball since May?

gobears1987
08-06-2009, 11:23 PM
A great team with so much untapped potential. If this team can just click on all cylinders, they would be unstoppable.

TornLabrum
08-07-2009, 12:29 AM
I don't think that's right. After Buehrle's perfect game, I think, they were a high-water mark 5 games over 500. Then went 1-6 on the road trip. That would have brought them back home at 500. Since then they've gone 5-2 to sit at 56-53 today.

Constantly winning 2 of 3 doesn't sound like much, but it adds up over a season. The Sox could be looking at 90+ wins. Plus, haven't they had one of the better records in baseball since May?

You're right about the record over the road trip. That's what I get for going by memory.

It would be nice if this team did consistently win 2 of every 3 games. However, on their last road trip they were 1-6 and over their past ten games they are playing .500 ball. They are 4 games under .500 on the road and one game under .500 against teams with records over .500.

The '83 team was under .500 for the first few months of the season and ended up winning 99 games. They were not a great team, but were pretty darned good, winning the division by 20. This team has a long way to go to be as good as the '83 Sox. Getting into first place instead of being 2 games behind the Tigers would be a good first step, but they kind of botched that on the last road trip.

ode to veeck
08-07-2009, 11:42 AM
The '27 Yankees were a great team. The '59 Sox were a very good team. The '09 Sox are 4 games above .500 and in second place in a bad division. That qualifies them (so far) as mediocre.

Edit: I forgot to mention: They have the eighth best record in a 14-team league.

They just whupped ass on the two best records in the American league; I'd say they are currently playing well above medicore. The Twinkie Dome isboth an abomination and an anomaly.

ode to veeck
08-07-2009, 11:43 AM
The 2005 team went wire to wire, lead the league in wins at almost every mileage point and finished one win behind the Cardinals who had 100.

The 2005 White Sox were great and the best team in baseball for all but some of September. I hate hearing this nonsense about getting hot at the right time.

They also tied the '98 Yankees for 11-1 best playoff mark ever, other than the Reds one perfect 7-0 post season.

khan
08-07-2009, 11:57 AM
I don't know how to feel about this team. On the one hand, there is a legitimate candidate for Cy Young in Buehrle, a legit candidate for ROY in Beckham, and a legit candidate for Comeback Player of The Year in Podsednik. I believe that KW is a candidate for Exec of the Year.

At the same time, this team can drive you nuts with their intermittent inability to catch and throw. This team can drive you up the wall with the inconsistent offense. This team can disappoint you with inconsistencies in the bullpen.

I guess I will continue to reserve my right to judge until the Commissioner's Trophy is our SOX's at the end of the year.

ms620
08-14-2009, 11:45 PM
hahahhahahaa

oeo
08-15-2009, 12:00 AM
hahahhahahaa

I don't remember seeing this thread. I thought it was going to be You Make the Call: ms620 a troll?

TornLabrum
08-15-2009, 12:13 AM
I stand by my posts here. The Sox have shown me nothing to prove they are not a mediocre team.

I also go back to my milking school analogy from columns I've written here. Teams need pitching, hitting, and defense. They are like the legs of a milking stool. Right now the Sox are playing with about one and a half legs sawed off the stool.

JB98
08-15-2009, 02:02 AM
I stand by my posts here. The Sox have shown me nothing to prove they are not a mediocre team.

I also go back to my milking school analogy from columns I've written here. Teams need pitching, hitting, and defense. They are like the legs of a milking stool. Right now the Sox are playing with about one and a half legs sawed off the stool.

Agreed. The Sox have the eighth best record in the American League. Thank goodness they are in the AL Central, which means they are still playing meaningful games. In other divisions, they would not be so blessed.

voodoochile
08-15-2009, 09:48 AM
I stand by my posts here. The Sox have shown me nothing to prove they are not a mediocre team.

I also go back to my milking school analogy from columns I've written here. Teams need pitching, hitting, and defense. They are like the legs of a milking stool. Right now the Sox are playing with about one and a half legs sawed off the stool.

So it's not much of a stool, but it makes a decent weapon. Hopefully we'll pick it up by the long leg and start smacking teams with the sawed off one between now and October.

:cool:

TornLabrum
08-15-2009, 10:53 AM
So it's not much of a stool, but it makes a decent weapon. Hopefully we'll pick it up by the long leg and start smacking teams with the sawed off one between now and October.

:cool:

I'm hoping, but the defense sucks. Peavy should make the pitching better. And the division is terrible, so there is more than a glimmer of hope.

Marqhead
08-15-2009, 11:11 AM
+1 Colbertism.

cards press box
08-15-2009, 11:19 AM
I'm hoping, but the defense sucks. Peavy should make the pitching better. And the division is terrible, so there is more than a glimmer of hope.

With the addition of Rios, the outfield defense should be better. I know that Rios and Quentin converged on a flyball last night and missed it but that was the first game where Quentin, Rios and Dye played together. Rios is the best defensive CF the Sox have and should strengthen the Sox defense up the middle.

The problems with the infield defense somewhat mystify me. I would have thought that Ramirez would be an excellent SS but his play has been inconsistent. I half wonder if the Sox won't acquire a 3B in the offseason (Chone Figgins?), move Beckham to SS and Ramirez to 2B.

Red Barchetta
08-15-2009, 12:30 PM
...a team who's biggest opponent is themselves. If they can stop beating themselves and stop playing at the level of the competition, they actually might win this thing! I would love to reach the playoffs and go in with a four man rotation of Buehrle, Peavy, Floyd and Danks! :cool:

PushinWeight
08-15-2009, 12:43 PM
+1 Colbertism.

Finally, someone got joke about the poll! Of course the "options" don't leave you a real choice.

voodoochile
08-15-2009, 01:42 PM
Finally, someone got joke about the poll! Of course the "options" don't leave you a real choice.

I got the joke, I just chose to ignore it.

HomeFish
08-15-2009, 01:50 PM
A pretty decent team, capable of beating anyone and losing to anyone, that will probably finish 5 games out but could play in the LCS if they somehow win the Central.

Dibbs
08-16-2009, 06:39 PM
Average team or the most average team?