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View Full Version : CLee, Marriage, and Crede


hold2dibber
06-06-2002, 07:15 AM
I've been a big CLee supporter, but I think I've had enough. He is on pace for a .250/15/60 and was even worse than that in the second half last year. His OBP is under .300, he can't run, he can't bunt and his defense is merely adequate (which is actually a big step up from last year). It has been nearly 6 months of lousy play from him; we just can't afford to wait forever. I would rather take my chances with a Rowand/Liefer platoon in LF at this point. I promise you that the two of those guys can best the pace CLee is on this year, plus, at least Liefer will crank some HRs and Rowand provides a spark plug by his all out effort all the time - that is exactly the type of intensity that this team needs a jolt of.

As an aside, my uncle claims that CLee got married at the All-Star break last year, strangely coinciding with this huge slump. Does anyone know if that's true? If so, quite a coincidence ...

So what to do with CLee? Well, Crede (hopefully, presumably) is on his way when Jose moves to SS. So I say you send CLee down. Sitting him on the bench hear doesn't do a lot of good. He needs to get his stroke back. And I think he needs a swift kick in the ass that a demotion might give him. Send him down, bring Crede up and let Rowand and Liefer take over in left.

34 Inch Stick
06-06-2002, 09:44 AM
I would be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about Carlos. He was one of the better players on the team in the first half of last season and his star was definetely on the rise. All of a sudden his play has been in the dumpster. I can't explain it because we saw the talent and the production.

Marriage could be an explanation. I have had a cold streak since I was married also.

Kilroy
06-06-2002, 09:50 AM
he did get married, but I can't say for sure it was at the all-star break last year. I actually thought it was before last season...

Mathew
06-06-2002, 01:54 PM
Rowand and Leifer both suck and Carlos should absolutely not be sent to the minors.

sox_fan_forever
06-06-2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
I actually thought it was before last season...

I also thought that it was before last season.

hold2dibber
06-06-2002, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Mathew
Rowand and Leifer both suck and Carlos should absolutely not be sent to the minors.

How long do you give CLee before he starts to hit? Does he get a two year chance to prove how good he is? I say six months of crap hitting is enought to suggest that he needs to change. He needs to learn the strike zone? - he constantly takes good pitches and swings at crap pitches. That says to me he needs work -- and work is best done in Charlotte, not Chicago.

And why do Rowand and Liefer suck? They have hit on every level and when giving a chance thus far at the MLB level, they've fared relatively well (certainly much better than the .250/15/60 pace that Lee is on right now). Do you really think Rowand and Liefer would be much worse than that? What do you think they should do? Just keep crossing their fingers and hope he magically comes out of his six month slump?

RedPinStripes
06-06-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Mathew
Rowand and Leifer both suck and Carlos should absolutely not be sent to the minors.

Why not? He can't do ANYTHING well. Can't hit, run bases, play D , (bunt if needed). He don'r deserve to be playing if he sucks. Waht can he possible offer fron the bench in this funk? Bad defense and a bad bat?

baggio202
06-06-2002, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Mathew
Rowand and Leifer both suck and Carlos should absolutely not be sent to the minors.

if leifer and rowand had the same opportunity lee has had and were hitting 240 - 15 -60..then i might agree with you....but neither guy has had the opportunity to prove whetehr they will reach their potential or be the next carlos lee...maybe its time they got the chance...lee sux

JoeBatters
06-06-2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Mathew
Rowand and Leifer both suck and Carlos should absolutely not be sent to the minors.

Carlos Lee is STONED AND STUPID peroid !

MattSharp
06-06-2002, 09:27 PM
Carlos Lee is not gonna be a star. I said it last year and I will say it this year, he is an average hitter, but compared to most OFs in the league he is nothing. I would definately rather see Rowand playing, he is one of my guys who should be playing.

Mathew
06-07-2002, 04:16 AM
I said nothing about superstardom, but as I have said before, Leifer bats .250 at best strikes out a hellova lot and is also a "butcher" defensively, Rowand though he plays with hustle lacks talent. He could not be more productive in the batters box 500 times. I'm not on the CLee bandwagon but the others aren't good at all. The fact that few are still on my side here shows that you guys are gaining much favor in this one. :(:

Clarkdog
06-07-2002, 03:01 PM
You guys are forgetting about me....

:LTP

I give you options.

hold2dibber
06-07-2002, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Mathew
I said nothing about superstardom, but as I have said before, Leifer bats .250 at best strikes out a hellova lot and is also a "butcher" defensively, Rowand though he plays with hustle lacks talent. He could not be more productive in the batters box 500 times. I'm not on the CLee bandwagon but the others aren't good at all. The fact that few are still on my side here shows that you guys are gaining much favor in this one. :(:

The problem is, you may be right about Liefer and Rowand, but you may be wrong. We've seen what Carlos Lee has done the last half of this year and the first two months this year, and it hasn't been good. So why not try Liefer or Rowand. Plus, those guys did produce last year, at least more than Lee has produced this year. If you compare, roughly, what Liefer was on pace to do over 500 ABs last year and what Lee is on pace to do this year (projected for 478 ABs), here's what you find:

HR: Liefer 36, Lee 16 (!)
RBI: Liefer 78, Lee 65
BA: Liefer .259, Lee .249
OBP: Liefer .313, Lee .292
SLG: Liefer .520, Lee .435 (yuck)
Ks: Liefer 138, Lee 62

Neither is overly impressive, but remember that Lee has had way more at bats at the MLB level to learn and improve. Liefer at least deserves a shot -- Lee simply has not earned the playing time he is getting, and with the offense stagnant, why not let Liefer and Rowand try to ignite the team?

Nellie_Fox
06-08-2002, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by Mathew
Rowand and Leifer both suck and Carlos should absolutely not be sent to the minors. Whos said anything about sending Carlos to the minors? Do the Sox have any options remaining on Carlos? He is a major drag on the lineup. Left field is an offensive position and CLee is just not getting it done. He needs to sit.

alohafri
06-08-2002, 07:39 AM
Rowand and Leifer both suck and Carlos should absolutely not be sent to the minors.

(Above quoted from Matthew)

Rowand and Leifer only suck because they have not gotten any consistent playing time. I have been on the Aaron Rowand bandwagon ever since he came up. He may be "all heart and no talent" but isn't heart what this team needs right now? Someone who is going to give 100%? We haven't seen that from the Butcher in a year!

Carlos Lee is a stiff who does not belong in a major league uniform.

:caballo You want to see "no talent"? Give me a glove. I'll show you no talent!