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View Full Version : Whats the Love affair with Pena


basilesox
08-04-2009, 09:32 PM
Tonights game is one of many in which i see this guy coming in during a tie or crucial situation. Last time i checked Dotel has an ERA of over two points lower and so does Linebrink. Anybody have any ideas on why this guy is getting into close games??

central44
08-04-2009, 09:37 PM
I think its because he's eventually going to be replacing Dotel to save money, and they want to help him with his control issues at the same time they develop guys like Getz and Beckham so that the team is firing on all cylinders next year. But that's just a guess.

basilesox
08-04-2009, 09:40 PM
Thats a good guess...Still this guy is AVERAGE! at best

BadBobbyJenks
08-04-2009, 09:46 PM
The guy's stuff is electric. I have been infatuated since the first time I ever watched him pitch to a batter.

getonbckthr
08-04-2009, 09:46 PM
Thats a good guess...Still this guy is AVERAGE! at best
So was Matt Thornton when he got here. Time with Cooper and now he may be the most dominant non-closing lefty reliever in babseball.

jabrch
08-04-2009, 09:55 PM
Love affair? *** are you talking about?


You have a bullpen. Jenks is not there - so you are short handed to begin with. Your starter only goes 2.2. Your long guy goes 4 IP. Someone has to pitch.

voodoochile
08-04-2009, 10:07 PM
He hasn't yielded a run in his last 7 outings including tonight.

He had a couple of rough outings early on, but he's got a plus fastball and should be just fine.

I have no problem seeing him come into a game.

WisSoxFan
08-04-2009, 10:32 PM
He's starting to grow on me. I think it's going to be a good pick up.

oeo
08-04-2009, 10:53 PM
I'd rather see Pena over Linebrink., ERA's be damned.

UofCSoxFan
08-04-2009, 11:05 PM
He hasn't yielded a run in his last 7 outings including tonight.

He had a couple of rough outings early on, but he's got a plus fastball and should be just fine.

I have no problem seeing him come into a game.

Exactly. Of all the days to start a thread like this...this was one of his better outings.

ERA is one of the worst ways to evaluate a relief pitcher. Guys can come in and let two inherited runners score and get charged with nothing on their ERA. Conversely one bad outing can take months for a reliever to recover from.

...
08-04-2009, 11:40 PM
:threadblows:

Zisk77
08-04-2009, 11:45 PM
Its those bedroom eyes.

kittle42
08-05-2009, 05:20 AM
Apparently, people complain when anyone but Thornton pitches, and complain that Thornton pitches when he does badly.

kevingrt
08-05-2009, 05:46 AM
He hasn't yielded a run in his last 7 outings including tonight.

He had a couple of rough outings early on, but he's got a plus fastball and should be just fine.

I have no problem seeing him come into a game.

Completely agree. I think he has looked fine. And the fact Bobby was not available tonight or the past couple nights I like having Dotel as a safety net in case Matty isn't firing or what not. I have no problem using Pena in the 7th or 8th innings.

spawn
08-05-2009, 06:24 AM
Apparently, people complain when anyone but Thornton pitches, and complain that Thornton pitches when he does badly.
:welcome:

chisox12
08-05-2009, 11:15 AM
He's starting to grow on me. I think it's going to be a good pick up.

Definitely starting to grow on me as well. Tough to judge relievers by ERA. I think I'd rather see Pena than Linebrink at this point.

jabrch
08-05-2009, 11:28 AM
Definitely starting to grow on me as well. Tough to judge relievers by ERA. I think I'd rather see Pena than Linebrink at this point.

I like em both. You need a lot of guys in a bullpen.

thedudeabides
08-05-2009, 01:47 PM
Definitely starting to grow on me as well. Tough to judge relievers by ERA. I think I'd rather see Pena than Linebrink at this point.

Agreed. And as you are saying, I wouldn't judge his ERA when he's only been here a couple of weeks.

Here is a list of all his outings since he's been here.

Game Log (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=30045)

Rough first couple of outings, but he's been very good since. His last seven outings, 0 runs, 4 hits, 1 bb, 5 k's.

I'm starting to feel confident when he comes in the game, and you can definitely see, from his stuff, why the Sox wanted him so bad.

UChicagoHP
08-05-2009, 02:12 PM
Because he has a "ceiling" or potential, or whatever you want to call, that 95% of pitchers can only dream about. If he has what it takes in the mental/confidence department(which is yet to be determined), I think the Sox pitching coaches can turn him into the stud that his stuff dictates he should be.

Save McCuddy's
08-05-2009, 02:20 PM
You mean there's a sox fan out there who wants to see Linebrink in a close game (recently)?

jabrch
08-05-2009, 02:40 PM
You mean there's a sox fan out there who wants to see Linebrink in a close game (recently)?

The "recently" is the problem. I've watched Scott pitch for 2 years. I am not going to let a few bad outings change my mind on him. Unless we hear that Scott is hurt, I assume he still can get the job done. He's had a rough stretch, but I still think he can get it done.

basilesox
08-10-2009, 11:30 PM
Sorry..hate to bring this thread back into action, especially since I got ripped on last time i made a comment about this guy. However, I could care less how much potential this guy has. If he continues to get rocked by guys like Johjima (4 HRs on the season), then i dont want to see him anywhere near a close game. I count about 5 options that are better out there and that includes Linebrink and Dotel who in my opinion are much better.

Boondock Saint
08-10-2009, 11:36 PM
Sorry..hate to bring this thread back into action, especially since I got ripped on last time i made a comment about this guy. However, I could care less how much potential this guy has. If he continues to get rocked by guys like Johjima (4 HRs on the season), then i dont want to see him anywhere near a close game. I count about 5 options that are better out there and that includes Linebrink and Dotel who in my opinion are much better.

Funny how comments like these pop up only after they give up a run, and not when they help keep us in games.

basilesox
08-10-2009, 11:38 PM
This comment was made along time ago actually and i got ripped hard for saying that he sucked. As it stands he may be a big reason why we failed to make up ground on detroit tonight, so I definitely wanted to bring this up again.

tsoxman
08-10-2009, 11:44 PM
The guy's stuff is electric. I have been infatuated since the first time I ever watched him pitch to a batter.

You're kidding, right? Didn't Biilly Koch have 'Electric' stuff when he pitched for us?

Boondock Saint
08-10-2009, 11:48 PM
This comment was made along time ago actually and i got ripped hard for saying that he sucked. As it stands he may be a big reason why we failed to make up ground on detroit tonight, so I definitely wanted to bring this up again.

That's because he doesn't suck. He might not be amazing, but he's far from bad.

basilesox
08-10-2009, 11:53 PM
Actually I said he is average at best...that comment still holds true today and means that he shouldnt be pitching late in games when we are tied or in the lead.

Boondock Saint
08-10-2009, 11:58 PM
Actually I said he is average at best...that comment still holds true today and means that he shouldnt be pitching late in games when we are tied or in the lead.

Your expectations are unreasonable.

basilesox
08-11-2009, 12:08 AM
Your expectations are unreasonable.

haha...ok. I guess asking him to not give up a go ahead HR to a guy who hasnt homered since May is like asking him to walk on water. Bottom line, he shouldnt have entered the game and Thornton should be pitching to Seattle in the bottom of the Ninth in a 4-4 game.

popilius
08-11-2009, 12:09 AM
I also have confidence in Pena, but I did expect to see Dotel come in with the tie game at that point. Either way you look at it, the Sox bullpen has been pretty good. Fortunately, there haven't been a lot of games like this recently for the bullpen.

The real issue is that it's hard for me to make a negative comment on the bullpen when the Sox scored only 4 runs while having ample opportunity to score more, especially with all the walks.

:gulp:

Boondock Saint
08-11-2009, 12:22 AM
haha...ok. I guess asking him to not give up a go ahead HR to a guy who hasnt homered since May is like asking him to walk on water. Bottom line, he shouldnt have entered the game and Thornton should be pitching to Seattle in the bottom of the Ninth in a 4-4 game.

Where was your bitching when he had eight consecutive scoreless appearances before tonight? Is asking you to allow him to make one mistake every once in a while, or is that like asking to walk on water, too? Bottom line, Thornton and Jenks can't pitch every inning, and Pena's been doing a fine job lately. Who else did you want pitching in the bottom of the sixth? Again, you're being completely unreasonable.

hawkjt
08-11-2009, 12:24 AM
Linebrink gave up about 6 rockets yesterday to the Indians...he has been horrible for the last month and you want him in over Pena? Maybe you have been missing his games or something but he has been very bad.
Dotel has not been great either,also gave up a run yesterday...Thornton and Carrasco are the only bullpen guys going strong right now..period.

The bullpen is collectively in a slump the last few weeks. Pena is as good as rolling the dice with anyone else right now...no good options.

ShoelessJoeS
08-11-2009, 08:14 AM
Sorry..hate to bring this thread back into action, especially since I got ripped on last time i made a comment about this guy. However, I could care less how much potential this guy has. If he continues to get rocked by guys like Johjima (4 HRs on the season), then i dont want to see him anywhere near a close game. I count about 5 options that are better out there and that includes Linebrink and Dotel who in my opinion are much better.Continues? He's been VERY solid since joining the White Sox. What games are you watching??

haha...ok. I guess asking him to not give up a go ahead HR to a guy who hasnt homered since May is like asking him to walk on water. Bottom line, he shouldnt have entered the game and Thornton should be pitching to Seattle in the bottom of the Ninth in a 4-4 game.Bottom line, Thornton has been pitching a hell of a lot lately with Bobby being out. Do you expect him to pitch in every single close game? Come on...

voodoochile
08-11-2009, 09:42 AM
Linebrink gave up about 6 rockets yesterday to the Indians...he has been horrible for the last month and you want him in over Pena? Maybe you have been missing his games or something but he has been very bad.
Dotel has not been great either,also gave up a run yesterday...Thornton and Carrasco are the only bullpen guys going strong right now..period.

The bullpen is collectively in a slump the last few weeks. Pena is as good as rolling the dice with anyone else right now...no good options.

The bullpen has been getting abused in general the past few weeks too as the starters have suddenly gone into a collective funk. When you are using your bullpen 3+ innings a day, it adds up.

hawkjt
08-11-2009, 09:46 AM
Yes, the starters are also in a funk of late,outside of Gavin.
To be fair, Jenks has had health issues,Thornton has been pretty good,Carrasco has been good,and Pena has been decent til last nite.
Williams has been decent also.
Dotel,Linebrink,and Bobby have been spotty.
So, overall,not horrible, but when combined with our spotty starters, not great.

Pear-Zin-Ski
08-11-2009, 09:47 AM
The bullpen has been getting abused in general the past few weeks too as the starters have suddenly gone into a collective funk. When you are using your bullpen 3+ innings a day, it adds up.

Bingo! The less a bullpen has to be used, the better the said bullpen will be. If we can have MB, Gavin, JD firing on all cylinders and some miracle in the 4th and 5th (do we even have that luxury?) spots I think this division is ours.

jdm2662
08-11-2009, 09:48 AM
The bullpen has been getting abused in general the past few weeks too as the starters have suddenly gone into a collective funk. When you are using your bullpen 3+ innings a day, it adds up.

The best bullpens are the ones that are hardly used.

dickallen15
08-11-2009, 10:52 AM
You mean there's a sox fan out there who wants to see Linebrink in a close game (recently)?

Do you want to see Jenks in a close game? He's only 5 for 9 in save opportunities when he comes into a 1 run game. He has a decent save pct. but most of his saves have occured after coming in to pitch 1 inning with a 3 run lead.

pssondacubs
08-11-2009, 12:45 PM
Tonights game is one of many in which i see this guy coming in during a tie or crucial situation. Last time i checked Dotel has an ERA of over two points lower and so does Linebrink. Anybody have any ideas on why this guy is getting into close games??

Because OG is still calling the shots...

scobalt
08-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Because OG is still calling the shots...

Or because ERA doesnt tell the whole story... Linebrink has been getting hit hard of late and Pena was pitching really well of recent.

If you want to look at ERAs, look at Linebrinks ERA in August/September the last few years. If I recall its up near 7. Maybe that is why Ozzie is using him less...

ShoelessJoeS
08-11-2009, 02:01 PM
Or because ERA doesnt tell the whole story... Linebrink has been getting hit hard of late and Pena was pitching really well of recent.

If you want to look at ERAs, look at Linebrinks ERA in August/September the last few years. If I recall its up near 7. Maybe that is why Ozzie is using him less...Seems like Linebrink allows a lot of inherited runners to score too, which won't show up on his ERA.

BadBobbyJenks
08-11-2009, 02:26 PM
You're kidding, right? Didn't Biilly Koch have 'Electric' stuff when he pitched for us?

No I am not kidding. I thought he was going to be Arizona's closer for years to come.

basilesox
08-11-2009, 05:34 PM
Where was your bitching when he had eight consecutive scoreless appearances before tonight? Is asking you to allow him to make one mistake every once in a while, or is that like asking to walk on water, too? Bottom line, Thornton and Jenks can't pitch every inning, and Pena's been doing a fine job lately. Who else did you want pitching in the bottom of the sixth? Again, you're being completely unreasonable.

I could give a **** less if he put together a streak and had a decent July where he strung together some scoreless innings. Quite a few of those outings were when we were up and down by a ton of runs. Plus its expected that he would start off good in the AL as alot of pitchers benefit from a switch in leagues. Basically, the guy came over with a 4.5 ERA and unimpressive WHIP from the NL, so its only a matter of time until we see his true colors, which we have seen in his last two outings. Now with Scott's recent struggles I can see why he wasnt in the game, but i damn well expect to see Dotel in that situation over Pena. I would also have preferred to see Williams, regardless if there are lefties coming up or not.

basilesox
08-11-2009, 05:37 PM
Continues? He's been VERY solid since joining the White Sox. What games are you watching??

Bottom line, Thornton has been pitching a hell of a lot lately with Bobby being out. Do you expect him to pitch in every single close game? Come on...

As i mentioned...the law of averages my friend. What goes up must come down or vice versa as in Pena's stats in this situation. If Pena was any good he would have been closing for Arizona instead of Qualls. Qualls is an average relief pitcher, which means Pena is below average.

And i was refering to the fact that Thornton would have been pitching in the Ninth in a tie game if Pena would have stayed on the bench, I didnt expect him to come in during the sixth.

I am tired of hearing about his stuff too. Guys with good stuff don't get taken deep by Kenji Johjima in a tie game.

basilesox
08-11-2009, 05:40 PM
Because OG is still calling the shots...

Yep..Never been a big fan of the way Guillen manages a pitching staff. He does everything else right and his players love him, but i question his moves with his bullpen late in games.

Boondock Saint
08-11-2009, 06:29 PM
I could give a **** less if he put together a streak and had a decent July where he strung together some scoreless innings.Quite a few of those outings were when we were up and down by a ton of runs.

Wrong yet again. Two of the eight scoreless outings came with the Sox up by five or more. All of the rest came in games decided by four or less runs, three of them being one run games. Seriously, did you even look before making these completely incorrect claims?

Plus its expected that he would start off good in the AL as alot of pitchers benefit from a switch in leagues.

It's a common belief that pitchers benefit from a switch to the National league, as it's believed that the better hitters play in the AL. That's the reason some people automatically project Jake Peavy's ERA to jump up a run in the AL. It's also why some people think that Javier Vazquez is doing so well in the NL.

basilesox
08-26-2009, 08:57 PM
I thought i would bump this thread...I called this out a month ago. I know the other relievers are scheduling mightily as well, but Ozzie just flat out handed the game to Boston tonight

BadBobbyJenks
08-26-2009, 09:02 PM
I thought i would bump this thread...I called this out a month ago. I know the other relievers are scheduling mightily as well, but Ozzie just flat out handed the game to Boston tonight


Cant win if you dont score, but lets throw Pena under the bus

Waysouthsider
08-26-2009, 09:05 PM
Let's score some runs, then this Pena thing will be a lot less of an issue...its not like he's collapsing....Linebrink on the other hand looks like he's used up......

Marqhead
08-26-2009, 09:07 PM
Cant win if you dont score, but lets throw Pena under the bus

You continue to defend him, no matter what the results. I agree, he has electric stuff. Mike MacDougal had electric stuff. There's a time to say, "hey, this guy sucks", that time is now. Sorry BBJ, but at least for the rest of this season, that trade has sucked.

I really hope he can turn it around, but if not he's just another waste of talent.

Boondock Saint
08-26-2009, 09:20 PM
I thought i would bump this thread...I called this out a month ago. I know the other relievers are scheduling mightily as well, but Ozzie just flat out handed the game to Boston tonight

I thought you might just let it the **** go or take it somewhere else, seeing as how this is all you've posted about in the last two weeks and is seemingly your only motivation to post on here of late. But I guess "I told you so" really makes you feel better about yourself, so bravo. :clap:

JB98
08-26-2009, 09:28 PM
Pena has not been good, but what other options did Ozzie really have tonight? He threw Thornton for two innings, which was a good move. Dotel has sucked lately. Linebrink has sucked even worse. Carrasco is overworked.

I suppose he could have brought in Jenks in a non-save situation. :dunno:

Britt Burns
08-26-2009, 09:37 PM
Pena sucks. This may go down as KW's worst trade.

GoGoCrede
08-26-2009, 09:39 PM
Pena sucks. This may go down as KW's worst trade.

The Yanks-Swisher deal, anyone?

Marqhead
08-26-2009, 09:41 PM
Pena sucks. This may go down as KW's worst trade.

Not a chance.

guillensdisciple
08-26-2009, 09:53 PM
Not that there was really any love in the first place, but now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10oajz1yttU

doublem23
08-26-2009, 09:59 PM
I thought i would bump this thread...I called this out a month ago. I know the other relievers are scheduling mightily as well, but Ozzie just flat out handed the game to Boston tonight

I missed that part where Pena blew a 7-run lead. :shrug:

<Insert any reliever's name who could have served up that longball> blew the game tonight!

doublem23
08-26-2009, 10:02 PM
Pena sucks. This may go down as KW's worst trade.

Maybe, but I still think it's way to early to give up on Pena. He's got good stuff, hopefully he's just working some stuff out with Cooper and the Sox coaching staff. Remember, Floyd and Danks weren't much when they were first acquired, sometimes helping a guy rework his mechanics or whatever takes more than a day.

And, BTW, I know Brandon Allen got A SINGLE!!!!! earlier this week, but he's currently hitting under .200. :shrug:

Maybe both teams swapped crap for crap.

kitekrazy
08-26-2009, 10:23 PM
Pena has not been good, but what other options did Ozzie really have tonight? He threw Thornton for two innings, which was a good move. Dotel has sucked lately. Linebrink has sucked even worse. Carrasco is overworked.

I suppose he could have brought in Jenks in a non-save situation. :dunno:

Eventually Jenks will suck since he isn't gettin any work.

voodoochile
08-26-2009, 10:25 PM
Next time, post your comments in the post game thread where they belong.