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Hitmen77
08-02-2009, 11:31 AM
.....the White Sox fired Don Kessinger as their manager and hired some guy named Tony LaRussa to replace him. I wonder whatever became of that LaRussa guy?

It was also 30 years ago today that Yankee catcher Thurman Munson died in a plane crash.:(:

Medford Bobby
08-02-2009, 11:36 AM
That was a spooky all around strange sports news day........:(:

It was the end of the Bill Veeck era as well.......

Railsplitter
08-02-2009, 11:44 AM
Odd how things are like that. You remember both, but not taking place the same day.

TommyJohn
08-02-2009, 12:23 PM
.....the White Sox fired Don Kessinger as their manager and hired some guy named Tony LaRussa to replace him. I wonder whatever became of that LaRussa guy?

It was also 30 years ago today that Yankee catcher Thurman Munson died in a plane crash.:(:
To be technical, I don't think he was fired. He talked to Veeck about problems with the team and offered to resign. Veeck didn't try to talk him out of it.

Trivia note: Steve Stone claims that before the 1979 season Bill Veeck planned on offering the manager position to Ernie Banks, but Stone talked him out of it-the reason being that Banks was so strongly identified with the Cubs that he would turn down the job.

BleacherBandit
08-02-2009, 12:29 PM
To be technical, I don't think he was fired. He talked to Veeck about problems with the team and offered to resign. Veeck didn't try to talk him out of it.

Trivia note: Steve Stone claims that before the 1979 season Bill Veeck planned on offering the manager position to Ernie Banks, but Stone talked him out of it-the reason being that Banks was so strongly identified with the Cubs that he would turn down the job.

How awesome would that have been?

Brian26
08-02-2009, 12:36 PM
How awesome would that have been?

Awesome? Sounds like it had potential to be a complete disaster both on and off the field.

TommyJohn
08-02-2009, 01:00 PM
How awesome would that have been?

Awesome? Sounds like it had potential to be a complete disaster both on and off the field.

I cannot picture Ernie Banks in the late 70's era Sox pajama uniforms.

Lip Man 1
08-02-2009, 05:31 PM
As some of you know Banks was almost some say should have been a member of the White Sox froim the beginning:

From my 'what if' story at WSI:

“MR. CUB” BECOMES “MR. WHITE SOX”

Here’s something that’ll make a Cub fan choke... if not for circumstances, Ernie Banks, the famed “Mr. Cub,” might never have played a game for the North Side. Instead Banks might have spent his career on the South Side and consequently gotten into a World Series...or two.

As to why Banks didn’t become a member of the Sox, details are unclear but some facts are known and it appears the main reason was because of the personalities of two of the leading Sox members of the 1950's, Frank “Trader” Lane and Paul Richards.

As G.M., Lane executed several brilliant deals netting the Sox All Star performers like Billy Pierce, Nellie Fox, “Minnie” Minoso and Sherm Lollar. Richards, the field manager from 1951 through late 1954, was a brilliant tactician and a tremendous teacher. Pierce said he was the best manager he ever had. But both men were strong willed, and had big ego’s and that would come into play.

By 1952 Lane was earning 35,000 a season plus a ‘nickel a head’ bonus based on attendance that added an additional 41,000 thousand dollars. Richards who had authored three very good seasons was getting 25,000 thousand and a ‘nickel a head’ for anything over 900,000 in paid admissions.

By August 1954 Richards was looking elsewhere. He couldn’t get a raise and he couldn’t get a multi year deal from the White Sox. He was looking for a three year package worth 40,000 thousand and was turned down. On September 13, Richards accepted the role of both field and general manager for the Orioles.

So how does Banks come into play?

Fast forward to May 21, 1956. By now Richards is still with the Orioles, Lane is the G.M. of the Cardinals. On this day the Sox, led by co G.M.’s, Chuck Comiskey and John Rigney traded George Kell to the Orioles for Dave Philley and Yankee killer Jim Wilson. When Lane heard about the deal he told the press, “Comiskey got the best of Richards...” When Richards heard the comment he exploded, “if you leave Lane alone, he’ll trade a first place club into a sixth place club.” He ripped Lane for every ill advised deal he ever made dating back to the trade of fleet outfielder Jim Busby. The he dropped a bombshell.

Richards told the press that the Sox had a chance to sign Banks, whom their scouts had followed extensively, but that Lane wasn’t interested in looking at him! Richards knew about Ernie and pushed for the club to get him but at that time the two men weren’t on good terms and Lane basically ignored most of Richards recommendations.

What if the Sox signed Banks and he spent his Hall Of Fame career on the South Side?

There are some interesting scenarios here.

Banks broke into the big leagues in 1953. He wouldn’t have produced the same numbers playing in Comiskey Park but he would have supplied a great deal of power that was missing from the Sox lineups throughout the 1950's and 1960's. He certainly could have been the difference in the 1964 and 1967 pennant races and he might have enabled strong White Sox teams in 1955 and 1957 to win the pennant.

There’s also something else to consider....if Banks signed and was the regular shortstop, do the White Sox even bother signing Luis Aparicio?

Think about how the ‘Go-Go Sox’ would have looked without the fastest man on the team.
Aparicio signed with the Sox in 1954, that same season Banks hit .275 with 19 home runs for the Cubs. Luis became Rookie Of The Year in 1956. Of course had the Sox signed both they might have moved Ernie to a different position, say first base, which would have really solved an issue on the club that had been lacking for almost a decade.

Lip

Railsplitter
08-02-2009, 05:37 PM
Banks actually managed in a big league game before Frank Robinson did. In the late inning of a 1973 game In San francisco, Cubs skipper Herman Franks got tossed, and Banks, then a coach with the Cubs, took charge.

Daver
08-02-2009, 05:52 PM
It was also 30 years ago today that Yankee catcher Thurman Munson died in a plane crash.:(:

As a young catcher just getting started I always watched every Yankee game I could so I could watch The Captain in action, his commanding style of calling games is what made look into becoming a complete player wearing the tools, when even back then the expectations from the position were being lowered on a yearly basis.

white sox bill
08-02-2009, 06:20 PM
Going back to those Golden Years of the Cubs, I actually like Ernie. He seemed humble, like an average guy. I also like Billy Williams,Fergie and of course Kessinger. Maybe its the fact I was 9 yrs old then but with the exception of Santo, they all seemed likable.

Hitmen77
08-02-2009, 06:29 PM
That was a spooky all around strange sports news day........:(:

It was the end of the Bill Veeck era as well.......

Here's a sad coincidence: Thurman Munson and Lyman Bostock both played their final games (prior to an untimely death) at Old Comiskey Park. Their deaths were about a year apart from each other if I remember correctly.

Shoeless
08-02-2009, 09:05 PM
I wonder whatever became of that LaRussa guy?
Not sure, but I know there's a DUI involved

Ron Karkovice
08-02-2009, 09:07 PM
If Kessinger was never fired, Buehrle for some reason may have never pitched his perfect game... Think about it.

Hitmen77
08-02-2009, 09:30 PM
To be technical, I don't think he was fired. He talked to Veeck about problems with the team and offered to resign. Veeck didn't try to talk him out of it.

It also marked the end of Kessinger's playing career. He was actually a player-manager for the Sox in 1979.

Trivia note: Steve Stone claims that before the 1979 season Bill Veeck planned on offering the manager position to Ernie Banks, but Stone talked him out of it-the reason being that Banks was so strongly identified with the Cubs that he would turn down the job.

This is just more evidence that Bill Veeck, God love him, was more interested in publicity stunts than in fielding a contending team. Of course, in the late 70s he really didn't have much choice since he couldn't afford to keep up with other teams in the new world of free agency.

Chicken Dinner
08-02-2009, 09:37 PM
And who fired Tony LaRusa, that would be the Hawk, in his only disastrous year as a GM.

oldcomiskey
08-02-2009, 09:40 PM
according to wikipedia Bostock died on 9/23/78

FielderJones
08-02-2009, 09:52 PM
according to wikipedia Bostock died on 9/23/78

Right, he was pointing out that both players died young, and played their last games (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1978/B09230CHA1978.htm) at Comiskey.

Fenway
08-02-2009, 10:02 PM
Three major events happened


White Sox hire a young manager nobody had ever heard of
Orioles were sold
Thurman Munson was killed
Dan Shaughnessy Baseball had a defining date 30 years ago (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2009/08/02/baseball_had_a_defining_date_30_years_ago)

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/08/01/1249173636_8624/300h.jpg