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View Full Version : Gordon Beckham/Sox Rookie History


decolores9628
08-02-2009, 04:55 PM
As a recently turned 21 year old I do not have the pleasure of remembering Frank's rookie year. Does Beckham give you the same excitement that Frank did when he came up?

Or any other White Sox rookie for that matter?

I haven't ever been excited about a rookie ever.

pythons007
08-02-2009, 05:01 PM
Oh the fine memories of Mike Caruso........

eastchicagosoxfan
08-02-2009, 05:05 PM
More. Like so many other Sox fans, I've seen countless "can't miss" prospects tank. Beckham looks like the real deal. He's got "it", whatever that it is, that separates the Beckhams and Thomas's from the Boston's, Borchards, Ruffcorns, etc. I'm older, obviously, and maybe it's because I hadn't seen enough failure when Thomas came up, but I'm more excited about Beckham. I think to accurately answer your question, guys like Nellie, Torn, etc. will have to answer. They've seen more....and remember it too.

HomeFish
08-02-2009, 05:25 PM
Carlos Quentin was technically not a rookie, but I was sure impressed by his first year here.

LITTLE NELL
08-02-2009, 05:31 PM
I was only 10 at the time but still remember Aparicio living up to expectations as he won rookie of the year in 1956.He was such a smooth fielding shortstop and was fast too as he led the AL in stolen base for 9 straight years.

PeteWard
08-02-2009, 05:36 PM
Pete Ward until he got into the off-season accident. Lots of rookie pitchers through the years.

wassagstdu
08-02-2009, 05:36 PM
They should extend him for a long time -- now. How about 10 y, $75 MM? More? How much did the Rays give Longoria? Hey, it's not my money, but I am looking forward to watching Beckham in a Sox uniform for many years.

wassagstdu
08-02-2009, 05:39 PM
I was only 10 at the time but still remember Aparicio living up to expectations as he won rookie of the year in 1956.He was such a smooth fielding shortstop and was fast too as he led the AL in stolen base for 9 straight years.

I couldn't believe the Sox traded Chico Carasquel, but Aparicio made me forget Chico pronto. Don't forget, though, that Aparicio made 36 errors in his rookie year. That's how good he was, that 36 errors was not significant.

Daver
08-02-2009, 05:52 PM
More. Like so many other Sox fans, I've seen countless "can't miss" prospects tank. Beckham looks like the real deal. He's got "it", whatever that it is, that separates the Beckhams and Thomas's from the Boston's, Borchards, Ruffcorns, etc. I'm older, obviously, and maybe it's because I hadn't seen enough failure when Thomas came up, but I'm more excited about Beckham. I think to accurately answer your question, guys like Nellie, Torn, etc. will have to answer. They've seen more....and remember it too.

I watched Ozzie win Rookie of the Year, but it was due more to his defense and baserunning, he was always overmatched at the plate. Frank Thomas was a different story, he never seemed overmatched at the plate, even as a rookie you could tell pitchers feared him, even grizzled vets like Nolan Ryan. Gordon is adjusting to MLB pitching well, but he doesn't instill the fear that pitchers had of Frank, and probably never will, I am impressed with how quickly he is adjusting defensively to the MLB game.

tacosalbarojas
08-02-2009, 05:55 PM
Definitely right there with the Big Hurt for my money...definitely not as fearsome, but just has so much poise for a rookie. Nice job against Carsten Charles today too.

HomeFish
08-02-2009, 05:55 PM
Shingo Takatsu had an amazing "rookie" season for a 38 year old relief pitcher who threw 50-86 mph.

People loved him. The crowd went wild when that gong went off. People would stand for the entire 9th inning when he was on the mound. I never saw anything like that until the following October.

Lip Man 1
08-02-2009, 05:55 PM
Gordon is going to be a very good player but Frank? Man he was already one of the best in the game his first full season of 1991.

Beckham may very well win rookie of the year and if he stays healthy has a great career ahead of him.

Other good Sox rookies that I'll compare him to are Gary Peters, Tommy Agee and Luis Aparicio.

Lip

voodoochile
08-02-2009, 06:03 PM
They should extend him for a long time -- now. How about 10 y, $75 MM? More? How much did the Rays give Longoria? Hey, it's not my money, but I am looking forward to watching Beckham in a Sox uniform for many years.

Not nearly enough. Not even close. A deal that would last through his arb eligible years would be only 5 years long and might well approach that level all by itself.

I'm sure the Sox will take advantage of simply renewing him this fall if he doesn't already have a multi-year deal in place. Some first round picks do.

LITTLE NELL
08-02-2009, 06:06 PM
Always wondered how good Carlos May could have been if he had'nt had part of his thumb blown off in the Marines. He had a pretty nice career but he might have been up there in superstar status if not for the injury.

...
08-02-2009, 06:08 PM
Not nearly enough. Not even close. A deal that would last through his arb eligible years would be only 5 years long and might well approach that level all by itself.

I'm sure the Sox will take advantage of simply renewing him this fall if he doesn't already have a multi-year deal in place. Some first round picks do.

Uhhh, no. You seriously believe the Gordon will command an average of 25 million per year over his 3 arbitration years? :scratch:

eastchicagosoxfan
08-02-2009, 06:14 PM
I watched Ozzie win Rookie of the Year, but it was due more to his defense and baserunning, he was always overmatched at the plate. Frank Thomas was a different story, he never seemed overmatched at the plate, even as a rookie you could tell pitchers feared him, even grizzled vets like Nolan Ryan. Gordon is adjusting to MLB pitching well, but he doesn't instill the fear that pitchers had of Frank, and probably never will, I am impressed with how quickly he is adjusting defensively to the MLB game.

If Beckham ever instills that type of fear, he's the next Mike Schmidt....and I doubt that will happen. Three aspects of Beckham's game stand out. His defense is solid, especially as a third sacker. His knowledge of the strike zone. His moxie, which is intangible. The guy just carrries himself like a winner. He has that "can do" cockiness.

Daver
08-02-2009, 06:38 PM
If Beckham ever instills that type of fear, he's the next Mike Schmidt....and I doubt that will happen. Three aspects of Beckham's game stand out. His defense is solid, especially as a third sacker. His knowledge of the strike zone. His moxie, which is intangible. The guy just carrries himself like a winner. He has that "can do" cockiness.

Gordon is one of the few players that could probably benefit in a big way from the teachings of Walt Hrniak, he shows signs of having the discipline to grasp Walt's "Hitting Zone", something that Frank embraced and did very well with for many years, when you increase your effective batting stroke to beyond the strike zone, as Frank did, you will become a dangerous prescence.

Zisk77
08-02-2009, 06:57 PM
Gordon is going to be great but Frank was simply unreal. For those of you who just saw Frank at the end of his career you have now idea how good he was his first 8 or 9 new years. I don't know how anybody got him out.

cws05champ
08-02-2009, 08:22 PM
Not nearly enough. Not even close. A deal that would last through his arb eligible years would be only 5 years long and might well approach that level all by itself.

I'm sure the Sox will take advantage of simply renewing him this fall if he doesn't already have a multi-year deal in place. Some first round picks do.

Evan Longoria got 6 years, $17M, with three option years at $7.5M, $11, $11.5M, so 9 years total at $47M. And 10 years and $75 is not enough for Beckham? OK.... :scratch:

I remember Frank Thomas in his first years, and he was the one of, if not the most feared hitter in the league. He was the most impressive rookie I have seen on the Sox...but Beckham has me very excited not only because of his hitting and improving defense. It's that he seems like a natural leader, looks like a good clubhouse guy and his all around play.

Huisj
08-02-2009, 08:27 PM
The main thing I remember about Thomas when he came up was wondering why they waited until the last couple months of the year to bring him up. I guess he was being blocked by the great Carlos Martinez.

UofCSoxFan
08-02-2009, 09:26 PM
Beckham's not going anywhere for a long time. Why the constant need to sign people to decade long contracts after 2 months of performance? This happens all the time on here when there is no reason to worry about it for years.

Shoeless
08-02-2009, 09:45 PM
Beckham's not going anywhere for a long time. Why the constant need to sign people to decade long contracts after 2 months of performance? This happens all the time on here when there is no reason to worry about it for years.

Fans think he's going to leave if we sign him for a couple of years, I guess. Gordon will be with us for a long time, but this isn't hockey.

Eddo144
08-02-2009, 10:05 PM
Beckham's not going anywhere for a long time. Why the constant need to sign people to decade long contracts after 2 months of performance? This happens all the time on here when there is no reason to worry about it for years.
Because, if you extend a guy early enough, you get an excellent deal. Evan Longoria's contract is 8 years, $48 million - only $6 million per year for a guy who is already one of the ten best hitters in the AL! Letting a player get to his arbitration years is very costly, and the subsequent contract when he reaches free agency is even more. So if you have a player that looks to be something special (like Longoria, Hanley Ramirez, Markakis, Beckham, etc.), it's good business to extend them in their first productive year, before they can command a huge contract.

voodoochile
08-02-2009, 10:14 PM
Uhhh, no. You seriously believe the Gordon will command an average of 25 million per year over his 3 arbitration years? :scratch:

No, I was factoring in a 5 year deal and yeah, my numbers were still out of line, but 75 for 10 years is too low from the way he's started. At this rate the Sox will end up paying him 40+M for his arb years alone. The next 5 past that might approach 75M or more all by themselves. My numbers were bad, but the original suggestion was still WAY too low...

BoKnowsBest
08-02-2009, 10:15 PM
I watched Ozzie win Rookie of the Year, but it was due more to his defense and baserunning, he was always overmatched at the plate. Frank Thomas was a different story, he never seemed overmatched at the plate, even as a rookie you could tell pitchers feared him, even grizzled vets like Nolan Ryan. Gordon is adjusting to MLB pitching well, but he doesn't instill the fear that pitchers had of Frank, and probably never will, I am impressed with how quickly he is adjusting defensively to the MLB game.

Frank vs Nolan Ryan: 0-12 with 11k's. Pretty obvious Ryan feared him.

But back to the discussion. Beckham looks great at the plate so far, he's been a double's machine, but I think he's got far more value at one of the middle infield positions assuming for the future the Sox can get a capable 3b.

WhiteSox1989
08-02-2009, 10:19 PM
Beckham just doesn't present himself like a 22 year old. He seems very mature and very confident.

Kid's got a bright future.

LoveYourSuit
08-02-2009, 10:22 PM
Gordon is going to be great but Frank was simply unreal. For those of you who just saw Frank at the end of his career you have now idea how good he was his first 8 or 9 new years. I don't know how anybody got him out.

Agree.

Beckham is the 1st White Sox rookie since Frank to make me stop what I'm doing to see what he's going to do next. He's got an impact about his game.


But Frank was a one of kind hitter breaking into the league. Something which will be very hard to top by any future Sox.

UofCSoxFan
08-02-2009, 10:28 PM
Because, if you extend a guy early enough, you get an excellent deal. Evan Longoria's contract is 8 years, $48 million - only $6 million per year for a guy who is already one of the ten best hitters in the AL! Letting a player get to his arbitration years is very costly, and the subsequent contract when he reaches free agency is even more. So if you have a player that looks to be something special (like Longoria, Hanley Ramirez, Markakis, Beckham, etc.), it's good business to extend them in their first productive year, before they can command a huge contract.

If you try to get ahead of the major money years, you don't expose yourself to a 10 year deal. A lot can happen....injuries, loss in production, etc...that make 10 year deals pretty risky. The guys that sign 10 year deals, the A-Rods and Sorianos of the world, do so because they've reached the status to demand it. Very few teams, especially not the White Sox, would want to agree to a deal that long, even if it costs them a bit more in the future. This is a team, keep in mind, that won't sign a pitcher to anything longer than a 3 year deal (a strategy I agree with).

Teams like Tampa, Baltimore, and Florida are all small market teams. They have to take the risk that their studs will be healthy and productive for long deals because otherwise they have no chance of holding them. The Sox actually have the luxury of taking a wait and see approach b/c we can pay people an extra 1 or 2 million a year for the luxury of waiting.

There's the flip side that you're completely ignoring...why would Beckham every sign a "bargain 10 year deal?" He can get all the financial security he needs by signing a 3 year deal and wait for the bigger payout down the road. There is no reason for him to agree to a 10 year marriage to the Sox. I wouldn't do it and any agent worth a grain of salt wouldn't do it unless it was for a $100 million plus.

kevingrt
08-02-2009, 10:28 PM
Beckham's not going anywhere for a long time. Why the constant need to sign people to decade long contracts after 2 months of performance? This happens all the time on here when there is no reason to worry about it for years.

Because when you see what Tampa was able to sign Longoria during last season you try to jump all over a deal like that.

UofCSoxFan
08-02-2009, 10:32 PM
Because when you see what Tampa was able to sign Longoria during last season you try to jump all over a deal like that.

Again, Tampa is a small market team taking a calculated risk. If Longoria gets hurt tomorrow, that deal looks awful, but they have no choice...they either take the risk now or admit they won't resign him.

You guys make it sound like he's going anywhere anytime soon. Relax. He's been in the majors for less than 2 months. We control him for a long long time.

voodoochile
08-02-2009, 10:39 PM
Because when you see what Tampa was able to sign Longoria during last season you try to jump all over a deal like that.

Heck yes, if I could land Evan for $6M total for his first two years of arb eligibility, I'd take it in a heartbeat. He'd probably get $10M+ his first year alone if he had waited.

If the Sox can sign a sweetheart deal that wraps up Beckham into his 30's for that much money, they should do it.

jamokes
08-03-2009, 04:51 AM
The difference between Frank Thomas and Beckham is that Frank had big time power..........Beckham is a good hitter.

hawkjt
08-03-2009, 06:57 AM
Frank and Gordo both had extraordinary eyes at the plate. Great plate discipline. Carlos was impressive in that all-important category also.

All three are different hitters but one thing all good hitters have in common...they swing at strikes and let the balls go by.

I love Gordo's body language at the plate, so relaxed..immediate recognition of the pitches...amazing so far.

spawn
08-03-2009, 07:04 AM
The difference between Frank Thomas and Beckham is that Frank had big time power..........Beckham is a good hitter.
Frank was a good hitter as well. He wasn't just a power hitter. He hit .300 or better 10 of his first 11 years in the Majors.

Lillian
08-03-2009, 07:07 AM
His ability to hit the ball where it's pitched and to spray the ball all over the field is what I find the most impressive.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?c_id=cws&playerID=493596&statType=1

I wish some of our other hitters would take a page out of his book. In fact, recently it looks like they may have been doing just that. Saturday's 14 run eruption came without the benefit of a home run, and there were a lot of hits to the opposite field.

jabrch
08-03-2009, 07:29 AM
I wouldn't go that far...but I sure am glad we have him!

fram40
08-03-2009, 09:07 AM
Beckham's numbers through 52 games are very,very impressive. Compare his numbers to Frank's after 60 games

Bacon - .311/.374/.486, 120 OPS+, 17 doubles, 36 RBIs, 5 HRs
Frank - .330/.454/.529, 177 OPS+, 11 doubles, 31 RBIs, 7 HRs

I am checking stats again next week. The way Bacon is hitting the last ten games or so, it will be interesting to see his numbers after his first 60 games

As Ozzie said, if we see Bacon with the big club this year, we are in trouble.

Eddo144
08-03-2009, 09:18 AM
If you try to get ahead of the major money years, you don't expose yourself to a 10 year deal. A lot can happen....injuries, loss in production, etc...that make 10 year deals pretty risky. The guys that sign 10 year deals, the A-Rods and Sorianos of the world, do so because they've reached the status to demand it. Very few teams, especially not the White Sox, would want to agree to a deal that long, even if it costs them a bit more in the future. This is a team, keep in mind, that won't sign a pitcher to anything longer than a 3 year deal (a strategy I agree with).

Teams like Tampa, Baltimore, and Florida are all small market teams. They have to take the risk that their studs will be healthy and productive for long deals because otherwise they have no chance of holding them. The Sox actually have the luxury of taking a wait and see approach b/c we can pay people an extra 1 or 2 million a year for the luxury of waiting.

There's the flip side that you're completely ignoring...why would Beckham every sign a "bargain 10 year deal?" He can get all the financial security he needs by signing a 3 year deal and wait for the bigger payout down the road. There is no reason for him to agree to a 10 year marriage to the Sox. I wouldn't do it and any agent worth a grain of salt wouldn't do it unless it was for a $100 million plus.
From Beckham's point of view, signing a "bargain 10 year deal" is a bit foolish. But you'd have to ask guys like Longoria why they sign the deals they do. Maybe they figure, "$50 million, $100 million, either way, I'm set for life, might as well take the money now in case my career goes south or I get hurt."

And even if Longoria were to have a career-ending injury tomorrow, and the Rays had to flush that $6 million per year down the drain, that's not that much money (the Sox arguably waste $6 million of salary on Contreras alone, not to mention what other teams waste on truly awful contracts like Soriano, Zito, and Wells).

Longoria's deal is an extremely low-risk contract for the Rays. Even if Longoria's becomes just an average player (and all signs point to him being an outstanding one), $6 million isn't that far off what an average third baseman makes in a year. Sure, if he suffers a career-ending injury, it sucks, but those are not really common in baseball.

hawkjt
08-03-2009, 09:20 AM
Beckham's numbers through 52 games are very,very impressive. Compare his numbers to Frank's after 60 games

Bacon - .311/.374/.486, 120 OPS+, 17 doubles, 36 RBIs, 5 HRs
Frank - .330/.454/.529, 177 OPS+, 11 doubles, 31 RBIs, 7 HRs

I am checking stats again next week. The way Bacon is hitting the last ten games or so, it will be interesting to see his numbers after his first 60 games

As Ozzie said, if we see Bacon with the big club this year, we are in trouble.


This is really a bit unfair. Frank is one of the top 3 all-time righthanded hitters in 120 years...Gordo is a year out of college.
Lets compare him to Robin Ventura..if Gordo can become this generation's Robin...that would be wonderful.

eriqjaffe
08-03-2009, 09:25 AM
The thing I remember about Frank when he first came up was that he just seemed so huge. He seemed to tower over the pitchers, even though the cameras had the pitcher in the foreground and standing on the mound. Nowadays, guys Frank's size seem kinda commonplace. Back in 1990, Thomas was just a monster.

fram40
08-03-2009, 09:36 AM
This is really a bit unfair. Frank is one of the top 3 all-time righthanded hitters in 120 years...Gordo is a year out of college.
Lets compare him to Robin Ventura..if Gordo can become this generation's Robin...that would be wonderful.

The numbers that Bacon has put up after two months may well be the best by any White Sox rookie - except for Big Frank, who was also only one year out of college when called up in 1990.

My comparison was meant as a compliment.

jabrch
08-03-2009, 09:50 AM
This is really a bit unfair. Frank is one of the top 3 all-time righthanded hitters in 120 years...Gordo is a year out of college.
Lets compare him to Robin Ventura..if Gordo can become this generation's Robin...that would be wonderful.

That's a better comparison in so many ways. Robin wasn't known as a great 3B when he was drafted. He worked hard to get to be a GGer. If Gordon can continue to progress with the stick, and make strides with the glove, that would rock.

voodoochile
08-03-2009, 09:55 AM
Just want to point out that power often blooms later in players who hit a lot of line drive doubles. He can be taught to elevate the ball to improve the number of balls that go from in the gap to in the seats without causing any damage to his average.

I know he played for the flubs, but a classic example is Sandberg who came up as a slap hitter with lots of doubles and line drives but learned to hit homers while in the bigs.

Taliesinrk
08-03-2009, 01:23 PM
Uhhh, no. You seriously believe the Gordon will command an average of 25 million per year over his 3 arbitration years? :scratch:

Yeah... wasn't Longoria given a much smaller contract?

voodoochile
08-03-2009, 02:08 PM
Yeah... wasn't Longoria given a much smaller contract?

Yeah, I goofed. I'm still shocked at how little he signed for for his arb years - guaranteed payday or not.

How much would Evan get after 2010 season if his numbers continue as they presently are? It would be one hell of a lot more than $2M.

LoveYourSuit
08-03-2009, 02:39 PM
This is really a bit unfair. Frank is one of the top 3 all-time righthanded hitters in 120 years...Gordo is a year out of college.
Lets compare him to Robin Ventura..if Gordo can become this generation's Robin...that would be wonderful.


I love Robin, but if Gordon's ceiling is a Robin Ventura then I would be a bit dissapointed. Glove no question. But bat, Gordon can do a hell lot more with the bat than Robin did. Gordon has the tools to win a Batting Title. I don't think Ventura ever hit over .300 but once. Need to check on that.

voodoochile
08-03-2009, 02:58 PM
I love Robin, but if Gordon's ceiling is a Robin Ventura then I would be a bit dissapointed. Glove no question. But bat, Gordon can do a hell lot more with the bat than Robin did. Gordon has the tools to win a Batting Title. I don't think Ventura ever hit over .300 but once. Need to check on that.


The thought of Beckham batting third and Quentin batting 4th for the next decade makes me drool...

doublem23
08-03-2009, 03:02 PM
The thought of Beckham batting third and Quentin batting 4th for the next decade makes me drool...

Do you really think Beckham has enough pop to hit in the 3-hole? I'm not sure if I do, even playing in HR-friendly U.S. Cellular Field, he's averaging a homer every 40 PA.

If Getz could figure out how to handle the bat at the top of the order, a 1-3 of Getz, Beckham, and Quentin is positively scary (assuming Carlos finds his bat again).

Hitmen77
08-03-2009, 03:31 PM
I wouldn't go that far...but I sure am glad we have him!

We can thank the dismal 2007 season for that!

LoveYourSuit
08-03-2009, 04:05 PM
The thought of Beckham batting third and Quentin batting 4th for the next decade makes me drool...


It would be our version of Mauer/Morneu.

We have that to go along with our starting pitching ...... watch out :o:

voodoochile
08-03-2009, 04:08 PM
Do you really think Beckham has enough pop to hit in the 3-hole? I'm not sure if I do, even playing in HR-friendly U.S. Cellular Field, he's averaging a homer every 40 PA.

If Getz could figure out how to handle the bat at the top of the order, a 1-3 of Getz, Beckham, and Quentin is positively scary (assuming Carlos finds his bat again).

I expect his power to improve as he matures, but have no problem with a guy who hits a ton of doubles and still hit 20 HR or so and might challenge for a batting title batting third. That's actually more of a traditional 3rd slot batter than a power hitter.

BleacherBandit
08-03-2009, 04:46 PM
I expect his power to improve as he matures, but have no problem with a guy who hits a ton of doubles and still hit 20 HR or so and might challenge for a batting title batting third. That's actually more of a traditional 3rd slot batter than a power hitter.

If he hits third, I have know idea what hitter he's supposed to be. To tell you the truth, I think he's more of a solid hitter than a power hitter. In fact, I think most of us can agree with that. Bacon should take the road to being a contact hitter, who occasionally hits a home run when it's presented to him. I liked him in the 8 spot, personally because he was able to get a bunch of RBIs there in case somebody in the middle of the lineup was on base/didn't hit a homer.

Thatguyoverthere
08-03-2009, 04:57 PM
Beckham makes going through 2007 seem so worth the misery now.

LoveYourSuit
08-03-2009, 04:58 PM
I expect his power to improve as he matures, but have no problem with a guy who hits a ton of doubles and still hit 20 HR or so and might challenge for a batting title batting third. That's actually more of a traditional 3rd slot batter than a power hitter.


Frank Thomas is who started the whole "power hitter" hitting third trend. Teams went that route because they wanted their best run producer to get an automatic chance in the 1st inning.

LoveYourSuit
08-03-2009, 05:02 PM
Beckham makes going through 2007 seem so worth the misery now.


Beckham, Danks, & Gavin.

Remember, Danks and Gavin were moves done that offseason which didn't look splashy at the time.

I turned the page on 2007 and that awful offseason.

I'm ready to turn the page on Kenny's awful offseason here in 2009 because that gave us enough money to take a shot and get Peavy for the stretch run. Also left enough questions at offense which allowed for Beckham to come up. If the Sox had signed Hudson and produced as he has done this year, Beckham doesn't see the Majors this season because the Sox would have sucked up another anemic season from Josh Fields.

LoveYourSuit
08-03-2009, 05:04 PM
If he hits third, I have know idea what hitter he's supposed to be. To tell you the truth, I think he's more of a solid hitter than a power hitter. In fact, I think most of us can agree with that. Bacon should take the road to being a contact hitter, who occasionally hits a home run when it's presented to him. I liked him in the 8 spot, personally because he was able to get a bunch of RBIs there in case somebody in the middle of the lineup was on base/didn't hit a homer.


Asking him to be a contact hitter is putting a cap on his potential. The kid has a much higher ceiling that that. Just because the guy is not 6'5" 240 doesn't meant he can't hit for power.

BleacherBandit
08-03-2009, 05:05 PM
Beckham, Danks, & Gavin.

Remember, Danks and Gavin were moves done that offseason which didn't look splashy at the time.

I turned the page on 2007 and that awful offseason.

I'm ready to turn the page on Kenny's awful offseason here in 2009 because that gave us enough money to take a shot and get Peavy for the stretch run. Also left enough questions at offense which allowed for Beckham to come up. If the Sox had signed Hudson and produced as he has done this year, Beckham doesn't see the Majors this season because the Sox would have sucked up another anemic season from Josh Fields.

Why not bring up Beckham in any situation where the third baseman isn't producing. Why not get the maximum offensive production readily available to you? I'm just curious as to what intricacies there are involved in a decision like that.

BleacherBandit
08-03-2009, 05:26 PM
Bacon report:
Try entering Bacon into Wikipedia, going to disambiguations, and clicking on the surname category.

whitesoxfan
08-03-2009, 05:30 PM
I love Robin, but if Gordon's ceiling is a Robin Ventura then I would be a bit dissapointed. Glove no question. But bat, Gordon can do a hell lot more with the bat than Robin did. Gordon has the tools to win a Batting Title. I don't think Ventura ever hit over .300 but once. Need to check on that.

He didn't but you underestimate how good Robin was. He was a very consistent .285 AVG and .370 OBP guy in his prime. He averaged around 20-25 homers with around 95 RBI's. That's pretty good. Granted, I'd like Beckham to be a little better than that and I think he has the tools to be a consistent .300 hitter. But Rockin Robin isn't a bad guideline at all for Bacon.

LoveYourSuit
08-03-2009, 05:43 PM
Why not bring up Beckham in any situation where the third baseman isn't producing. Why not get the maximum offensive production readily available to you? I'm just curious as to what intricacies there are involved in a decision like that.

The Sox brought Beckham up because both Fields and Getz were going way South at the time. They needed a bat in there badly because the bottom of the order was an automatic out. Orlando Hudson would have bought the Sox some time to see if anything could ever come out of Fields.

I_Liked_Manuel
08-03-2009, 06:09 PM
Shingo Takatsu had an amazing "rookie" season for a 38 year old relief pitcher who threw 50-86 mph.

This made me laugh

Eddo144
08-03-2009, 06:24 PM
Frank Thomas is who started the whole "power hitter" hitting third trend. Teams went that route because they wanted their best run producer to get an automatic chance in the 1st inning.
Frank Thomas, Babe Ruth, I always forget who came first, too. :redneck

Asking him to be a contact hitter is putting a cap on his potential. The kid has a much higher ceiling that that. Just because the guy is not 6'5" 240 doesn't meant he can't hit for power.
I agree with this. Power generally develops as you age, and Beckham is only 23. The fact that he's already hitting doubles so often is promising; hopefully he become a 25-30 HR guy to boot. The Sox should definitely not try to force him into a contact hitter role just because he's not a particularly large guy.

...
08-03-2009, 09:49 PM
"If you can't get up for playing in the big leagues, you can't get up at all. I don't even really notice I play here every day, I'm just out there."

-Beckham


Jesus.

RedPinStripes
08-03-2009, 10:09 PM
I watched Ozzie win Rookie of the Year, but it was due more to his defense and baserunning, he was always overmatched at the plate. Frank Thomas was a different story, he never seemed overmatched at the plate, even as a rookie you could tell pitchers feared him, even grizzled vets like Nolan Ryan. Gordon is adjusting to MLB pitching well, but he doesn't instill the fear that pitchers had of Frank, and probably never will, I am impressed with how quickly he is adjusting defensively to the MLB game.


Pretty much what I was thinking. Hard to compare the two, but I was more excited about Frank being a baseball card collector at 14. I do stop what I'm doing to watch Beckham bat. 3 years into the league, every baseball fan stopped to watch Frank bat.