PDA

View Full Version : Kenny Williams Top 10 moves


Rockabilly
08-02-2009, 09:31 AM
1...Re-signing Buehrle.
2...trading for Peavy.
3...trading for Quentin.
4....drafting Beckham
5...signing AJ
6...Re-signing PK.
7... trading for Floyd
8...trading for Danks.
9...signing Jenks.
10..signing Dye

IMO he is the best GM in all of baseball

A. Cavatica
08-02-2009, 09:44 AM
Little early to have Peavy at #2, isn't it?

I love the deal on paper, but I liked acquiring Swisher, too. Maybe we should wait until Peavy, you know, actually pitches for us.

Shoeless_Jim
08-02-2009, 09:47 AM
I hope that drafting Beckham can move its way to the top.

Rockabilly
08-02-2009, 09:54 AM
I forget to add this to the top 10 moves..

Making Ozzie the Mgr..

Dibbs
08-02-2009, 09:56 AM
I would put trading for Freddy Garcia on his top ten list.

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 09:58 AM
Caballo for Pods was huge, the Sox are a completely different team with a solid leadoff hitter

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 10:01 AM
Loaiza for Contreras, just after Esteban had nearly won the Cy Young and when Jose looked like he might already be done in NY, and then Contreras was an anchor for the 2nd half '05 and the most lights out starter in the playoffs and Loaiza was just a flash in the pan

SOXSINCE'70
08-02-2009, 10:03 AM
Loaiza for Contreras, just after Esteban had nearly won the Cy Young and when Jose looked like he might already be done in NY, and then Contreras was an anchor for the 2nd half '05 and the most lights out starter in the playoffs and Loaiza was just a flash in the pan

Don't forget Contrertas' first half in 2006,when he went
something like 8-0 to open the season.:cool:

Rockabilly
08-02-2009, 10:04 AM
looking at all these great moves by KW, proves my point that he's in the best GM.

bigdommer
08-02-2009, 10:39 AM
When you look at what he gave up, I think acquiring Floyd & Gio for Freddy was an unbelievable coup. I love Freddy, but he was breaking down and barely touching 90 when KW moved him, but he was somehow able to pick up 2 former 1st round picks. It's easy to see the genius of the move now, but Philly had Floyd labeled with the "bust" tag despite the fact that he was only 23 with less than 100 MLB innings. The guy was the #4 pick in a loaded draft, ahead of Texiera. Philly was caught in the "win now" mode and thought they needed an ace, but they were a few years late on Freddy.

Zisk77
08-02-2009, 10:42 AM
Geoff Blum (HALF TEAL)
Signing the Cuban Missile.
Signing Iguchi

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 10:48 AM
if you want help remembering http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/files/chicago_white_sox_kenny_williams.xls

also in the Caballo for Pods trade we also got key pullpen middle relief in Vizcaino, who was one of the key arms in the pen for a while

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 10:49 AM
Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 10:51 AM
acquiring Tadahito Iguchi from Japan

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 10:52 AM
Borchard for Matt (aka pen stud) Thornton

bigdommer
08-02-2009, 10:53 AM
if you want help remembering http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/files/chicago_white_sox_kenny_williams.xls

also in the Caballo for Pods trade we also got key pullpen middle relief in Vizcaino, who was one of the key arms in the pen for a while

Thanks for the list. With the exception of the Billy Koch acquisition, I can't find a dud on the list.

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 10:54 AM
"Fingernails on Chalkboard" Brendan McCarthy for John Danks in a multi-player deal

SCCWS
08-02-2009, 11:00 AM
1...Re-signing Buehrle.
2...trading for Peavy.
3...trading for Quentin.
4....drafting Beckham
5...signing AJ
6...Re-signing PK.
7... trading for Floyd
8...trading for Danks.
9...signing Jenks.
10..signing Dye

IMO he is the best GM in all of baseball

I disagree w your rationale. You are listing #2 on what the result of the trade will eventually bring. If so , then #1 is disputable. If I am KW, I would have turned down the Red Sox offer and resigned Buehrle. But if he had traded him to the Red Sox they would have received:

1. Ellsbury--probably the best young centerfielder in baseball. He is a .300 hitter w a great glove and will steal 50+ bases this season. He was a AAA prospect just up from minors when the Buehrle deal surfaced.
2. Buchholz- He has already thrown a no-hitter and is waiting for an opening in the Boston rotation. Red Sox would not include him in Martinez deal.
3. Key player in Martinez deal was masterson who was the 3rd rated prospect Kenny Willams turned down.

I thought at the time, KW made the right decision in that Boston was offering 3 very promising prospects but they were only prospects. The 3 he turned down would have given the White Sox a 3-5 type starter, an outstanding centerfielder and a second starter or a possible closer.

getonbckthr
08-02-2009, 11:01 AM
To be fair this list needs to be top 20/25. The better thing to do may be a top 10 of his worst moves cause truly there isn't many.

Red Barchetta
08-02-2009, 11:02 AM
I forget to add this to the top 10 moves..

Making Ozzie the Mgr..

If I remember correctly, Ozzie wasn't KW's first choice and JR actually convinced KW to go with Ozzie. Technically still his signing I guess.

doublem23
08-02-2009, 11:05 AM
I was writing a little Sox blog for fun last year, at last year's trade deadline, I wrote my favorite KW trades were...

Too soon to call... Acquired Carlos Quentin from Diamondbacks for Chris Carter (12/3/2007)

10) Acquired Willie Harris from Orioles for Chris Singleton (1/29/2002)
9) Acquired Jon Link from Padres for Rob Mackowiak (7/31/2007)
8) Acquired Damaso Marte and Edwin Yan from Pirates for Matt Guerrier (3/27/02)
7) Acquired Matt Thornton from Mariners for Joe Borchard (3/20/06)
6) In a three-team trade with the Yankees and Expos, acquired Bartolo Colon and Jorge Nunez for Antonio Osuna, Delvis Lantigua, Rocky Biddle, and Jeff Liefer
5) Acquired Javier Vazquez from Diamondbacks for Orlando Hernandez, Luis Vizcaino, and Chris Young (12/20/05)
4) Acquired Jon Danks, Nick Massett, and Jacob Rasner from Rangers for Brandon McCarthy and David Paisano (12/23/06)
3) Acquired Jose Contreras from Yankees for Esteban Loaiza (7/31/04)
2) Acquired Freddy Garcia from Mariners for Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo, and Mike Morse (6/27/04)
1) Acquired Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez from Phillies for Freddy Garcia (12/7/06)

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 11:08 AM
Thanks for the list. With the exception of the Billy Koch acquisition, I can't find a dud on the list.

duds:

abbott for ramirez, even though Abbot sucked too, Julio batted .083 for the Sox in early '01

myatt and schmack for "the choice" Roycee Clayton

wells, lowe and fogg for embree

foulke for koch is a dud in the long run, as keith still had some decent years left eventually and koch was a bust, except for the pretty major fact that PTBNL turned into '05 pen star Neil Cotts

Garland for Cabrera not really a bust per se, but we didn't get what we were looking out of it either, garland's not the mound stud he was a few years back, but still a not bad starter

not really any total busts in recent years though, a clear sign of Kenny's learnings over the years, he's as sharp as ever now even though he started out as one of the younger GMs around

Soxaredabest
08-02-2009, 11:28 AM
I would definitely say that trading for Pods was a huge move. He was our catalyst in 2005.

bigdommer
08-02-2009, 11:28 AM
duds:

abbott for ramirez, even though Abbot sucked too, Julio batted .083 for the Sox in early '01

myatt and schmack for "the choice" Roycee Clayton

wells, lowe and fogg for embree

foulke for koch is a dud in the long run, as keith still had some decent years left eventually and koch was a bust, except for the pretty major fact that PTBNL turned into '05 pen star Neil Cotts

Garland for Cabrera not really a bust per se, but we didn't get what we were looking out of it either, garland's not the mound stud he was a few years back, but still a not bad starter

not really any total busts in recent years though, a clear sign of Kenny's learnings over the years, he's as sharp as ever now even though he started out as one of the younger GMs around

It's kind of revisionist history, but all of those players KW gave up never amounted to anything. Everyone hated the Lowe/wells/fogg deals, but those guys were poo. The OC deal actually worked out, because the Sox got two compensation picks (38 & 61) while the Angels only got one (48). The Koch deal probably cost them the division, as they finished 4 games out and Foulke dominated for the A's that season.

fuzzy_patters
08-02-2009, 11:43 AM
One thing that is often forgotten about the Lee for Pods and Vizcaino trade is that it also freed up a lot of payroll, as did not re-signing Ordonez. That money allowed KW to sign guys like Dye, Iguchi, Hermanson, Pierzynski, and El Duque. In a way, we actually got a lot more back for Lee than just Pods and Vizcaino.

Sargeant79
08-02-2009, 12:41 PM
I disagree w your rationale. You are listing #2 on what the result of the trade will eventually bring. If so , then #1 is disputable. If I am KW, I would have turned down the Red Sox offer and resigned Buehrle. But if he had traded him to the Red Sox they would have received:

1. Ellsbury--probably the best young centerfielder in baseball. He is a .300 hitter w a great glove and will steal 50+ bases this season. He was a AAA prospect just up from minors when the Buehrle deal surfaced.
2. Buchholz- He has already thrown a no-hitter and is waiting for an opening in the Boston rotation. Red Sox would not include him in Martinez deal.
3. Key player in Martinez deal was masterson who was the 3rd rated prospect Kenny Willams turned down.

I thought at the time, KW made the right decision in that Boston was offering 3 very promising prospects but they were only prospects. The 3 he turned down would have given the White Sox a 3-5 type starter, an outstanding centerfielder and a second starter or a possible closer.


From what I remember, that was the package Kenny Williams was trying to get, but Boston wouldn't give up Ellsbury.

Brian26
08-02-2009, 12:54 PM
I disagree w your rationale. You are listing #2 on what the result of the trade will eventually bring. If so , then #1 is disputable. If I am KW, I would have turned down the Red Sox offer and resigned Buehrle. But if he had traded him to the Red Sox they would have received:

1. Ellsbury--probably the best young centerfielder in baseball. He is a .300 hitter w a great glove and will steal 50+ bases this season. He was a AAA prospect just up from minors when the Buehrle deal surfaced.
2. Buchholz- He has already thrown a no-hitter and is waiting for an opening in the Boston rotation. Red Sox would not include him in Martinez deal.
3. Key player in Martinez deal was masterson who was the 3rd rated prospect Kenny Willams turned down.

I thought at the time, KW made the right decision in that Boston was offering 3 very promising prospects but they were only prospects. The 3 he turned down would have given the White Sox a 3-5 type starter, an outstanding centerfielder and a second starter or a possible closer.

From what I remember, that was the package Kenny Williams was trying to get, but Boston wouldn't give up Ellsbury.

I don't recall Ellsbury, Bucholz or Masterson being offered. Of course, none of us know the real details that were discussed, but the name that came out at the time as being offered for Buehrle was Coco Crisp.

PatK
08-02-2009, 01:03 PM
What about picking up Jenks?

Brian26
08-02-2009, 01:03 PM
wells, lowe and fogg for embree

I think you meant Ritchie. Embree sucked only sightly less for us than Todd did.

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 01:40 PM
I think you meant Ritchie. Embree sucked only sightly less for us than Todd did.


Ritchie had one of the worst seasons ever for us

spongyfungy
08-02-2009, 01:43 PM
trading sirotka for Wells to jordache was a great move at the time I thought. but when shouldergate brewed, I knew we got ourselves a tough GM.

Kenny seems to have a sixth sense about these things and pretty much knows if they leave the organization, they'll fall off the map. Garcia and Loaiza come to mind. But once Kenny likes a player he'll just end up reacquiring them when they are let go.

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 01:43 PM
probably not one his top moves, but recall our Frisbee throwing reliever Shingo?

SCCWS
08-02-2009, 01:47 PM
I don't recall Ellsbury, Bucholz or Masterson being offered. Of course, none of us know the real details that were discussed, but the name that came out at the time as being offered for Buehrle was Coco Crisp.


From Boston.com : According to the source, the Red Sox not only want to keep Buehrle away from the New York Yankees and are willing to offer him a contract extension in the five-year range he is seeking, but they have a farm system loaded with players in whom the White Sox are interested.
"Starting pitchers Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden are on the White Sox' radar, as well as speedy outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury and shortstop Jed Lowrie."

SoxNation05
08-02-2009, 01:50 PM
That list was horrible.

ode to veeck
08-02-2009, 01:50 PM
another "not really top ten move" was rent a player Canseco who filled in nicely for injured Big Frank part of one season, Canseco mostly kept his big mouth shut and did a good job of letting his stick talk for his brief tenure here

jabrch
08-02-2009, 02:02 PM
I'd piut Jenks way up high. Nobody thought he was good for anything. I'd put Floyd up there too. He was given up for dead. Danks also in the top tier - the fury for trading away BM was crazy.

35th&Shields
08-02-2009, 02:06 PM
From Boston.com : According to the source, the Red Sox not only want to keep Buehrle away from the New York Yankees and are willing to offer him a contract extension in the five-year range he is seeking, but they have a farm system loaded with players in whom the White Sox are interested.
"Starting pitchers Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden are on the White Sox' radar, as well as speedy outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury and shortstop Jed Lowrie."

Isn't Buckholtz back in the minors?

Buehrle has talked about retiring or playing in STL. Where does this five year extension talk come from?

I chalk this up to Internet chatter.

35th&Shields
08-02-2009, 02:09 PM
Don't forget Williams decision to get Jermaine Dye was tied into the decision to let Magglio go and not pay him the $$$$$$$$$ Mags wanted. That worked out very well for us, considering the amount of time Mags has spent on the DL.

balke
08-02-2009, 02:10 PM
Let's wait before we judge these trades guys. Time will still tell on Jeremy Reed and De Los Santos' hall of fame runs.

jabrch
08-02-2009, 02:14 PM
Let's wait before we judge these trades guys. Time will still tell on Jeremy Reed and De Los Santos' hall of fame runs.

The book is still well open on DLS. Reed, however, is a 28 yo with 1300 ABs in the bigs hitting .257/.313/.363. He's nothing more than a backup OF.

Brian26
08-02-2009, 02:20 PM
From Boston.com : According to the source, the Red Sox not only want to keep Buehrle away from the New York Yankees and are willing to offer him a contract extension in the five-year range he is seeking, but they have a farm system loaded with players in whom the White Sox are interested.
"Starting pitchers Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden are on the White Sox' radar, as well as speedy outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury and shortstop Jed Lowrie."

I'm sure all of those guys were on the White Sox radar, but Theo, from all accounts, was offering Coco as his main bargaining chip for Buehrle.

gobears1987
08-02-2009, 04:12 PM
Thanks for the list. With the exception of the Billy Koch acquisition, I can't find a dud on the list.
That was a good trade too as Neal Cotts came over with Billy Koch. Cotts was a major part of the success in 2005.

gobears1987
08-02-2009, 04:15 PM
Reed, however, is a 28 yo with 1300 ABs in the bigs hitting .257/.313/.363. He's nothing more than a backup OF.
He reminds me of someone else, except Reed's batting average is a little higher. :redneck

SCCWS
08-02-2009, 06:16 PM
Isn't Buckholtz back in the minors?

Buehrle has talked about retiring or playing in STL. Where does this five year extension talk come from?

I chalk this up to Internet chatter.


Buchholz has been in Boston rotation since Wakefield went down.

The 5 year extension in 2007 would have gone through 2012.

These were the names in Boston media not internet. Bowden is still in AAA and highly regarded but he was in lower minors at that time. Lowrie is pretty average.

At time it was supposed to be 3 players of a group of 5-6 names including those 4 plus Masterson and Hansen. Supposedly KW wanted Lester instead of Buchholz and Red Sox backed off.

Metalthrasher442
08-02-2009, 06:28 PM
I think both acquisitions of Pods are two of his greatest moves. We are absolutely terrible when we don't have a good lead off hitter.

I think the Carlos Quentin trade was a thing of magic.

I also thing that acquiring Contreras was a thing of beauty because during the trade it looked like we were getting ripped off.. but really we weren't =]

The Peavy deal is also cool as of right now because it was literally not rumored until it was a done deal.

Shoeless
08-02-2009, 07:24 PM
I hope that drafting Beckham can move its way to the top.

Pretty soon, i'm hoping the teams that drafted before him will regret not taking him.

This and the Alexei signing could wind up being Kenny's greatest move when all is said and done.

Domeshot17
08-02-2009, 10:21 PM
I like Kenny, but I agree, lets not get overblown. He is clearly a top 10 GM, but like plenty have said, we won't know until thingsp lay out how Peavy worked out for us, but kenny is one of the ballsiest GMs in baseball. He has fumbled his fair share of trades, and I don't think hes "the best" but hes in the conversation.

ode to veeck
08-03-2009, 08:45 AM
Who coulda thought the reacquisition of Pods was gonna even pan out, let alone produce our all-star stud leadoff man this year? Most posters slammed the thought when we picked him up again this spring.

areilly
08-03-2009, 09:12 AM
I would put trading for Freddy Garcia on his top ten list.

First thing I thought of.

PhillipsBubba
08-03-2009, 09:15 AM
KW is a fine GM and has done a great job...I would like to see more successful draft picks come through the ranks...like Beckham and Getz:smile: