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A. Cavatica
07-31-2009, 10:35 PM
Carrasco got the emergency start tonight, but I don't think he should get another one. Carlos Torres, on the other hand, impressed. And don't look now, but Lucas Harrell has put himself in the mix (4-1, 3.09 at Charlotte after going 8-3, 3.25 at B'ham).

As for the rehabbing vets, I don't trust Colon at all right now, even when he's "healthy". And I trust Garcia even less.

If Peavy isn't healthy by September, could Ely get a callup? Or even (gulp) Hudson?

JB98
07-31-2009, 10:36 PM
Carrasco got the emergency start tonight, but I don't think he should get another one. Carlos Torres, on the other hand, impressed. And don't look now, but Lucas Harrell has put himself in the mix (4-1, 3.09 at Charlotte after going 8-3, 3.25 at B'ham).

As for the rehabbing vets, I don't trust Colon at all right now, even when he's "healthy". And I trust Garcia even less.

If Peavy isn't healthy by September, could Ely get a callup? Or even (gulp) Hudson?

My guess is the options are Torres and Garcia, with Torres getting the first shot when we need a fifth starter next weekend against Cleveland.

Tragg
07-31-2009, 10:38 PM
whoever started the other night from charlotte - start him.

ode to veeck
07-31-2009, 10:39 PM
the biggest question for sure, coming after today's trade, is who will pitch next in the 5th slot

SoxFan64
07-31-2009, 11:29 PM
Looking at the Sox upcoming schedule we have days off on Mon Aug 3; Thurs Aug 13; and Thurs Aug 20. If a 5 man rotation has every pitcher with 4 days off, then we will need a 5th starter on Mon Aug 10 and then not again until Tues Aug 25 in Boston and then Sun Aug 30 in NYC.

If Peavy is not ready to go for the month of September, then we will need a 5th starter four times: Fri Sept 4, Wed. Sep 9, Sun Sept 20, and Wed Sep 30.

So that is 7 starts between now and the end of the season.... assuming no rain outs.

Rohan
07-31-2009, 11:31 PM
Torres, unless Garcia is really ready...

Zisk77
07-31-2009, 11:40 PM
I see a waiver wire deal for Garland or arroyo or Harang or someone. i believe Garland is on a one year deal so that would make sense.

DirtySox
07-31-2009, 11:48 PM
Torres. With the restructuring of the rotation and offdays Kenny said the 5th starter spot will only come up 3 more times before Peavy is ready.

Bobby Thigpen
08-01-2009, 12:02 AM
Colon should never be seen in a Sox jersey again.

Unless he wears one of his old ones to a game he buys a ticket to.

WhiteSoxOnly
08-01-2009, 12:05 AM
Torres deserves a couple of cracks at it after his start against
the Rays.

Viva Medias B's
08-01-2009, 12:07 AM
The Ranger said on the postgamer that Freddy would not be ready. We should go with Torres.

Tragg
08-01-2009, 12:07 AM
Garland hasn't had a good year since 2005.
We'll find someone decent internally.

Zisk77
08-01-2009, 12:10 AM
Garland hasn't had a good year since 2005.
We'll find someone decent internally.


2006 & 2007 were good for him.

KRS1
08-01-2009, 02:25 AM
Colon should never be seen in a Sox jersey again.

Unless he wears one of his old ones to a game he buys a ticket to.

Yeah, I'm not gonna hate on Bartolo for what he did this year. He had himself a few very clutch starts and was never horrible outside of two games, so I consider it a pretty good move for us. Honestly, did anyone ever expect him to stay healthy or be a anything better than what he was here? Sure, keeping quiet about his elbow sucks, but at least he was trying to push through an injury and not make excuses for him to sit out.

As for our fifth starter, is there really any question that Torres earned himself at least another look? Like someone said, we have a good break this month where we only really NEED a fifth man to make three starts, so I have no problem handing Carlos the ball allowing him earn another start and make an early case for a spot on the '10 squad.

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-01-2009, 02:51 AM
I think for the next start, Torres should get another shot, but other options would be Garcia or Colon when they are both ready. I wouldn't mind seeing Harrell or Whisler given a start either, but we really have no other options. Marquez is a joke.

hawkjt
08-01-2009, 07:20 AM
Looking at the Sox upcoming schedule we have days off on Mon Aug 3; Thurs Aug 13; and Thurs Aug 20. If a 5 man rotation has every pitcher with 4 days off, then we will need a 5th starter on Mon Aug 10 and then not again until Tues Aug 25 in Boston and then Sun Aug 30 in NYC.

If Peavy is not ready to go for the month of September, then we will need a 5th starter four times: Fri Sept 4, Wed. Sep 9, Sun Sept 20, and Wed Sep 30.

So that is 7 starts between now and the end of the season.... assuming no rain outs.

Actually, we will need the 5th starter a week from today vs the tribe,8/8, then again on 8/18 vs KC,both at home, then in Bos on 8/25. Based on what kenny said about only having to fill the 5th slot 3 times before Jake is ready...I am hoping that Jake will make his debut on 8/25 at Boston...which would allow him to make a total of 8 starts...maybe optimistic, but hey, Kenny said it.:D:

southside rocks
08-01-2009, 07:49 AM
Garland hasn't had a good year since 2005.
We'll find someone decent internally.

In terms of ERA, 2005 really does look like it was Garland's career year. He's 5-10 this year with a 4.42 ERA, which is right in line with his lifetime 4.46 ERA. The only year that he was a starter and had an ERA under 4.00 was 2005 (3.50).

He had a good W-L record in 2006 because the Sox hit like crazy that year and he got good run support. He was mediocre-to-bad in 2007, 10-13 and 4.23.

Garland is not worth re-acquiring, IMO. All his talk a few years ago about how he would want Buehrle money when he became a FA was absurd. I don't want to see Jon Garland's dig-me strut in Sox pinstripes again.

russ99
08-01-2009, 09:03 AM
Between Torres, Colon, Garcia, or whoever Kenny calls up or can get off the scrapheap, I think we'll be fine.

I just hope they don't rush Peavy back.

kevingrt
08-01-2009, 09:28 AM
Torres should start and we should give Peavy all the time he needs. I want to see Freddy only out of the bullpen in August, September, and October. I think Freddy can be a much more valuable asset out of the bullpen rather then the starting rotation. And I'd like to see Torres stick to being a starting pitcher this year and next year in hopes that maybe he can become a quality fifth starter in our rotation next year.

mzh
08-01-2009, 10:01 AM
In terms of ERA, 2005 really does look like it was Garland's career year. He's 5-10 this year with a 4.42 ERA, which is right in line with his lifetime 4.46 ERA. The only year that he was a starter and had an ERA under 4.00 was 2005 (3.50).

He had a good W-L record in 2006 because the Sox hit like crazy that year and he got good run support. He was mediocre-to-bad in 2007, 10-13 and 4.23.

Garland is not worth re-acquiring, IMO. All his talk a few years ago about how he would want Buehrle money when he became a FA was absurd. I don't want to see Jon Garland's dig-me strut in Sox pinstripes again.

Garland hasn't exactly been terrible this year, he's had some up the worst defense and run support in the league. He currently has a streak of 6 consecutive quality starts (6+ IP, 3> ER), in which he is 1-3. His E.R.A. is so bad now because he had a particularly terrible April and May, his ERA for June and July were 3.82 and 3 respectively, but he has only been 1-6. If your team can't win for you when you give up 3 runs or less in 6 or more innings 5 out of 6 times, you know that's a hard-luck loser.

JNS
08-01-2009, 10:42 AM
Garland hasn't exactly been terrible this year, he's had some up the worst defense and run support in the league. He currently has a streak of 6 consecutive quality starts (6+ IP, 3> ER), in which he is 1-3. His E.R.A. is so bad now because he had a particularly terrible April and May, his ERA for June and July were 3.82 and 3 respectively, but he has only been 1-6. If your team can't win for you when you give up 3 runs or less in 6 or more innings 5 out of 6 times, you know that's a hard-luck loser.

Right - and he has just been put on Waivers by the D-Backs. I think that he'd be a fine #5 - better than most. And he'd be pretty cheap and is on a one-year contract, so why not? If they are willing to give Big-Game Freddie a shot, why not California Jon? If he works out he'd be a fine replacement for Contreras in the #5 slot.

southside rocks
08-01-2009, 10:59 AM
Right - and he has just been put on Waivers by the D-Backs. I think that he'd be a fine #5 - better than most. And he'd be pretty cheap and is on a one-year contract, so why not? If they are willing to give Big-Game Freddie a shot, why not California Jon? If he works out he'd be a fine replacement for Contreras in the #5 slot.

My guess is because Freddie signed a minor-league contract for no serious money, while Jon Garland is making $6.25 million this year with the D-Backs and has an option for 2010.

In the wake of the Peavy signing, I have a hard time seeing $6.25 million considered "pretty cheap" by the Sox.

Is there some indication that the D-Backs will eat a portion of his salary? I have read nothing to that effect.

southside rocks
08-01-2009, 11:02 AM
Garland hasn't exactly been terrible this year, he's had some up the worst defense and run support in the league. He currently has a streak of 6 consecutive quality starts (6+ IP, 3> ER), in which he is 1-3. His E.R.A. is so bad now because he had a particularly terrible April and May, his ERA for June and July were 3.82 and 3 respectively, but he has only been 1-6. If your team can't win for you when you give up 3 runs or less in 6 or more innings 5 out of 6 times, you know that's a hard-luck loser.

True, we've seen several Sox pitchers suffer through that in recent years.

I was looking more at Garland's ERA, which is very close to his career norm. He is a fair-to-middling innings-eating back-of-the-rotation guy. Is that worth $6-10 million? Probably not for the Sox right now.

And if Peavy can pitch in September, what do you do with Garland then? Something tells me that the Sox are not going to just bench Jose Contreras, not with the money they're paying him and the effort he's shown this year.

mzh
08-01-2009, 11:13 AM
True, we've seen several Sox pitchers suffer through that in recent years.

I was looking more at Garland's ERA, which is very close to his career norm. He is a fair-to-middling innings-eating back-of-the-rotation guy. Is that worth $6-10 million? Probably not for the Sox right now.

And if Peavy can pitch in September, what do you do with Garland then? Something tells me that the Sox are not going to just bench Jose Contreras, not with the money they're paying him and the effort he's shown this year.

Going with a 6-man rotation ala Boston can be very helpful to save a pitcher's arm for the playoffs, and if all 6 are quality major league pitchers (as opposed to running out John Smoltz trying to put off retirement), you really aren't losing anything.

Zisk77
08-01-2009, 11:15 AM
2007 was a perfect example of how stats lie. Garland was great that year. he had an ERA just of 2 going into late june. Then he finally had a game where he didn't have his stuff. It was a first game of a doubleheader against the twins. We should have survived the first inning without any runs but a play wasn't made (but wasn't giving an error though it should have) and sixth runs scored. Since our pen was terrible , overworked, & it was the first game of a DH Garland took one for the team and 13ER where credited to him before he left! He also pitched a clunker against the Yanks 8 er. those were his only 2 bad starts of the season.

take those 13 er's out of his era and see what that of bad. In both games Jon "took one for the team" where normally he would have been yanked before he would have giving up all those runs.

The Bukvitch, Day, etc bullpen cost Jon numerous wins that year. He would have easily won 20 games that year with a solid pen. In fact he even took a 1-0 lead into the 9th in Oakland! and Bobby Jenks blew a rare save for him.

JNS
08-01-2009, 11:21 AM
My guess is because Freddie signed a minor-league contract for no serious money, while Jon Garland is making $6.25 million this year with the D-Backs and has an option for 2010.

In the wake of the Peavy signing, I have a hard time seeing $6.25 million considered "pretty cheap" by the Sox.

Is there some indication that the D-Backs will eat a portion of his salary? I have read nothing to that effect.

$6.25 mil is very cheap - and it's only a fraction of that amount for August and September. If he blows they don't have to pick up the 2010 option. And he's healthy - as opposed to Garcia who hasn't really pitched since 2006. It makes sense. Send Jon to the pen when Peavy returns, and get him back into the rotation (if he's decent) for 2010 and away we go.

With Contreras, and possibly Dye, gone, there is plenty of dough around for 2010. Especially if the Sox make the post-season again which will boost season ticket sales for 2010 and solve KW's "not enough folks coming out to the ballpark" problem.

balke
08-01-2009, 11:57 AM
$6.25 mil is very cheap - and it's only a fraction of that amount for August and September. If he blows they don't have to pick up the 2010 option. And he's healthy - as opposed to Garcia who hasn't really pitched since 2006. It makes sense. Send Jon to the pen when Peavy returns, and get him back into the rotation (if he's decent) for 2010 and away we go.

With Contreras, and possibly Dye, gone, there is plenty of dough around for 2010. Especially if the Sox make the post-season again which will boost season ticket sales for 2010 and solve KW's "not enough folks coming out to the ballpark" problem.


So pay a guy like 3 million dollars for 3 starts? Then put a soft tossing righty into the bullpen?

I'm gonna say no. Besides all that, Jon Garland will never come back to Chicago. I don't think he enjoyed his time here very much.

Zisk77
08-01-2009, 12:50 PM
So pay a guy like 3 million dollars for 3 starts? Then put a soft tossing righty into the bullpen?

I'm gonna say no. Besides all that, Jon Garland will never come back to Chicago. I don't think he enjoyed his time here very much.


Garland or whoever we can get (Harang, Arroyo) would also be Contreras insurance.

Shoeless
08-01-2009, 12:57 PM
Garland or whoever we can get (Harang, Arroyo) would also be Contreras insurance.
+1. We need a fifth starter, but even if Torres plays so-so, it can't hurt to have an extra guy.

JNS
08-01-2009, 03:21 PM
So pay a guy like 3 million dollars for 3 starts? Then put a soft tossing righty into the bullpen?

I'm gonna say no. Besides all that, Jon Garland will never come back to Chicago. I don't think he enjoyed his time here very much.

How is it $3 million? IT'S 2 MONTHS OUT OF A 6 MONTH SEASON. More like $2 million. Not that big a deal, especially if they are looking for an established #5 for 2010.

Any of the other mentioned guys would do too, but Garland is available on waivers right now - the Sox wouldn't have to give up anything to get the guy.

jongarlandlover
08-01-2009, 11:45 PM
I see a waiver wire deal for Garland or arroyo or Harang or someone. i believe Garland is on a one year deal so that would make sense.

If we got Garland back, I think I would pass out.

That being said, I don't necessarily see it happening...