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View Full Version : Looking back: Do you think the Sox should have re-signed Crede?


Whitesoxfan23
07-31-2009, 02:49 AM
At the time I thought they were doing the right thing, but now I wish they re-signed him. You can't predict the future though, and Crede has been very injury prone, so I don't blame KW for this one, I just wish we would have re-signed him. What do you think?

Nellie_Fox
07-31-2009, 02:55 AM
At the time I thought they were doing the right thing, but now I wish they re-signed him. You can't predict the future though, and Crede has been very injury prone, so I don't blame KW for this one, I just wish we would have re-signed him. What do you think?I think Boras should have been open with the Sox about Crede's medical situation so that they wouldn't be expected to make a blind offer, that's what I think.

Whitesoxfan23
07-31-2009, 02:56 AM
I think Boras should have been open with the Sox about Crede's medical situation so that they wouldn't be expected to make a blind offer, that's what I think.


Very good point.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-31-2009, 03:36 AM
Not at all. Beckham has done way better than Crede has and Getz has been pretty solid.

Whitesoxfan23
07-31-2009, 03:44 AM
Not at all. Beckham has done way better than Crede has and Getz has been pretty solid.


Of course Beckham has done better than Crede, I just would prefer if Beckham would play his natural position.

central44
07-31-2009, 03:51 AM
If Crede is here, Beckham is in AAA right now. The only reason they called him up is because Fields wasn't hacking it. Offensivley Beckham has already become a force in the lineup, and defensivley...well, he's still kind of a liability, but he's improving. Just think though, he's getting the growing pains out of the way a year earlier than he would, and can probably have a monster year next season.

TDog
07-31-2009, 03:59 AM
Of course Beckham has done better than Crede, I just would prefer if Beckham would play his natural position.

Ryne Sandberg, who came to the Cubs as a shortstop, had a Hall of Fame career, and he ended up playing only seven games at his natural postion. Third and second worked out OK for him.

There never was any question of Joe Crede re-signing with the White Sox. His agent wasn't interested in cooperating with the White Sox.

MUsoxfan
07-31-2009, 04:00 AM
I would've been against the Sox signing Crede for even the league minimum. He's too much of a health risk

oeo
07-31-2009, 04:01 AM
If Crede is here, Beckham is in AAA right now. The only reason they called him up is because Fields wasn't hacking it.

That's not really true at all. They were seriously considering bringing him up for Opening Day. Beckham is a rare player who was ready to go the day he signed.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-31-2009, 04:38 AM
Of course Beckham has done better than Crede, I just would prefer if Beckham would play his natural position.

Me too, but I think Ramirez, Beckham, and Getz > Ramirez, Crede, and Getz. Crede is a liability and he is slower than all three of them. He's batting .236, so it's not like he's exactly tearing the cover off the ball, so the Sox are actually getting more production than if he were still on the team. The only thing he has going for him is his defense, when he's healthy. As much as I like Joe, it was time for the Sox to move on.

LITTLE NELL
07-31-2009, 06:01 AM
No way, Crede and his agent can go jump in the lake.
(Trying to be nice)

Sam Spade
07-31-2009, 07:41 AM
Josh could be having about the same year crede is if he were playing full time. Defensively too, whether you believe it or not.

WhiteSox1989
07-31-2009, 07:42 AM
No. I'm rather fond of our third baseman.

DumpJerry
07-31-2009, 08:06 AM
No. I no longer called Beckham "Bacon" or "Gordo." I now call him "RoY."

If Crede is signed, RoY would still be in AAA. True, they were considering bringing him up from ST, but that was a roster without Crede. With Crede on the roster in March, there is no considration for RoY.

Crede was a health risk. It was time to cut bait.

Whitesoxfan23
07-31-2009, 08:12 AM
Josh could be having about the same year crede is if he were playing full time. Defensively too, whether you believe it or not.


Defensively? You are joking right?

Sam Spade
07-31-2009, 08:18 AM
Defensively? You are joking right?

No. People here underrate josh's improvements and ignore crede's decline.

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-31-2009, 08:21 AM
You want Crede on the team from the heartstrings perspective - 2005 WS, clutch plays at the corner, NOT wanting him to go to the Twins. That said, I wish him well and hope his back holds for him. Time to move on.

GAsoxfan
07-31-2009, 08:48 AM
Given the fact that Beckham's batting average is higher than Crede's OBP, I'm going to say no.

...
07-31-2009, 08:51 AM
No. People here underrate josh's improvements and ignore crede's decline.

:shakehead:

TomBradley72
07-31-2009, 08:51 AM
No. People here underrate josh's improvements and ignore crede's decline.

You

Cannot

Be

Serious

Fields is a statue at 3rd base with an average arm.

hi im skot
07-31-2009, 08:57 AM
No no no no no.

bigdommer
07-31-2009, 09:20 AM
1) The Twins were able to get Crede for $2.5MM base plus incentives. The WS would have had to offer arbitration, and Crede would have probably cost in the 6-8 range. If KW could have signed Crede for 2.5 he would have, but the rules don't allow it.
2) Even if they were making the same exact amount of money, Beckham is better than Crede today.
3) While Crede would be an upgrade over Getz (assuming that Beckham would be at 2nd), this lineup would have been even slower and more right handed.

Whitesoxfan23
07-31-2009, 09:20 AM
And just so there isn't any confusion. I'm not comparing Crede and Beckham. I just rather have Beckham at his natural position, and I know Crede isn't good offensively this year, but I do miss his great defense, that has been lacking at the 3b position this year.

fuzzy_patters
07-31-2009, 09:26 AM
And just so there isn't any confusion. I'm not comparing Crede and Beckham. I just rather have Beckham at his natural position, and I know Crede isn't good offensively this year, but I do miss his great defense, that has been lacking at the 3b position this year.

What's with the "natural position" stuff? High school and college teams routinely put their best athletes at shortstop. That doesn't mean that is where they will play forever, or that it is more "natural" for them to play that position than another. It isn't like there is a shortstop gene. Mark Tiexiera played shortstop in college. Should the Yankees move him back to his natural position?

doublem23
07-31-2009, 09:27 AM
No.

doublem23
07-31-2009, 09:27 AM
What's with the "natural position" stuff? High school and college teams routinely put their best athletes at shortstop. That doesn't mean that is where they will play forever, or that it is more "natural" for them to play that position than another. It isn't like there is a shortstop gene. Mark Tiexiera played shortstop in college. Should the Yankees move him back to his natural position?

Teixeira also played 1B through the minors so he wasn't learning the position on the fly at the Major League level.

ode to veeck
07-31-2009, 09:30 AM
I think Boras should have been open with the Sox about Crede's medical situation so that they wouldn't be expected to make a blind offer, that's what I think.

Except that Boras doesn't operate that way at all ... and was as big a factor on Crede as anything else (at least as far as the Sox were concerned)

ode to veeck
07-31-2009, 09:35 AM
Josh could be having about the same year crede is if he were playing full time. Defensively too, whether you believe it or not.

No way no how. Josh has shown no ability to improve with the leather either in the minors or in plenty of time in the show.

Crede, on the other hand showed dramatic improvements defensively, as he usefully spent his minor league career learning the hot corner and was making stellar put outs from his very 1st game for the Sox.

Gordon is still adjusting obviously , and time will tell if he becomes a more consistent 3B or not, but he has already proven himself with the stick.

hawkjt
07-31-2009, 09:37 AM
Joe has appearred in only 73 games, which puts him on track to play about 110 games...not good enough for a huge long term contract. Now, maybe he will get healthier going out further, but I have my doubts.
Beckham has only been up two months and only has 12 less hits and ten less RBI's. Gordo has stuggled defensively but is improving and I cannot really remember him costing the Sox a game with his glove.

No. OBP for Gordo .379...Crede ... .298 ..and the speed when on the paths is a huge plus for Gordo also.

PhillipsBubba
07-31-2009, 09:57 AM
No...they did good by not signing him...they screwed up by not getting a bonafide replacement and by sending Fields to the minors after his promising debut season..

voodoochile
07-31-2009, 10:02 AM
No, not for the price they would have had to pay him. Too big of a risk with his back troubles and the amount of time he spent on the DL the previous season.

GoGoCrede
07-31-2009, 10:07 AM
As much as I love Crede...no. Pains me to say it. KW made the right decision.

infohawk
07-31-2009, 10:11 AM
That's not really true at all. They were seriously considering bringing him up for Opening Day. Beckham is a rare player who was ready to go the day he signed.
I will always be a Crede fan and appreciative of some of his accomplishments in a Sox uniform, particularly during the 2005 season. Objectively, however, he is a low average, low on-base percentage hitter who generates decent power numbers but has a questionable back. His defense is stellar, but considering that he is a known health risk and generates very inconsistent offensive production, his agent will vastly overprice him in the market.

The Sox did the right thing.

asindc
07-31-2009, 10:37 AM
No.

NLaloosh
07-31-2009, 11:11 AM
no

chisox12
07-31-2009, 11:16 AM
It really hurt to see Crede go, but no. Things have worked out pretty well at 3B so far this season.

soxfanreggie
07-31-2009, 11:18 AM
If we could have gotten him for under $3 million, I would have. However, that wasn't going to happen with the Sox. Crede-Bacon-Ramirez doesn't sound too bad to me, but we weren't likely to start with Bacon on the Major League roster anyway.

bigdommer
07-31-2009, 11:23 AM
This is kind of like asking, "Should the Sox have kept Nick Swisher?" or "Should the Sox have signed Aaron Rowand?"

If there were no monetary consequences, then the answer is probably yes. Unfortunately, KW lives in the real world where you can't pay a power hitting 3rd baseman with chronic back issues $7MM per year.

chisox12
07-31-2009, 11:23 AM
If we could have gotten him for under $3 million, I would have. However, that wasn't going to happen with the Sox. Crede-Bacon-Ramirez doesn't sound too bad to me, but we weren't likely to start with Bacon on the Major League roster anyway.

Yeah, no chance Beckham would have been up as soon as he was if Crede was back. I like the way Getz has been playing too. It was tough to see him go, but it will work out for the best in the long run.

Domeshot17
07-31-2009, 11:26 AM
(1) Beckham probably doesn't get half the looks in spring training with Crede here.
(2) Atleast this year, win or lose, we now have answers from Fields and Anderson. Another Year of Crede means we are still wondering the direction to go.
(3) In a way, it was good to see Crede and Boras screw themselves. I know as a player Crede was fantastic. I loved watching him at 3rd. However, The way they played this contract crap out. Not talking long term deals, then making big demands, then hiding medical information, Crede telling the fans he would fire Boras if he didn't keep him in Chicago and then changing face behind the scenes, as a fan it was nice to see Boras blow it.

The only thing I will say, whoever said Fields and Crede compare defensively now was wrong, well mostly. Crede is a shell of his former self, he went from gold glove to just not a liability. However, Josh is still a big liability at 3rd. His future is clearly at first.

That said, whoever mentioned he has only an averagre arm, Fields probably has one of the strongest arms on the team. That was his best defensive attribute.

Zisk77
07-31-2009, 11:49 AM
No. People here underrate josh's improvements and ignore crede's decline.


Fields' defensive is better than just two regular season sox 3b in my lifetime...Greg Norton & Eric Soderholm (but soderholm had 2 bad knees and could slug). Fields couldn't hold Crede's jock. And I like Josh. i thought he might be our 1b of the future. Now hopefully we trade him and he could do well someplace else.

thedudeabides
07-31-2009, 12:30 PM
What's with the "natural position" stuff? High school and college teams routinely put their best athletes at shortstop. That doesn't mean that is where they will play forever, or that it is more "natural" for them to play that position than another. It isn't like there is a shortstop gene. Mark Tiexiera played shortstop in college. Should the Yankees move him back to his natural position?

You're right on with this one. Pedroia and Kinsler were both college shortstops and they are doing quite well with the position change. In fact, they both went to ASU, and Pedroia beat out Kinsler for the SS position, and Kinsler eventually transferred to Missouri.

The list of college shortstops switching positions goes on forever. Brian Roberts, Brandon Inge, Troy Glaus, Matt Williams. Patt Burell was a college inflielder.

jabrch
07-31-2009, 12:34 PM
The risk was very high. I can't see how we could have justified it then. And the relationship was sour after how last season ended up.

No - we made the right move.

wassagstdu
07-31-2009, 12:51 PM
Absolutely not. They should have released him at the beginning of 2007 when they couldn't trade him.

From Crede's point of view, he was a fool for not signing an extension with the Sox when he had the chance.

JC456
07-31-2009, 01:22 PM
Josh could be having about the same year crede is if he were playing full time. Defensively too, whether you believe it or not.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha:bliss:

voodoochile
07-31-2009, 01:28 PM
Josh could be having about the same year crede is if he were playing full time. Defensively too, whether you believe it or not.

Who knew Josh's Mom posted at WSI...:D:

Cuck the Fubs
07-31-2009, 01:40 PM
no! Hell no!

thomas35forever
07-31-2009, 02:11 PM
No. His back became a liability and keeping him on the roster would've held back our development. We dealt with that issue for too long.

TheVulture
07-31-2009, 02:56 PM
This is kind of like asking, "Should the Sox have kept Nick Swisher?" or "Should the Sox have signed Aaron Rowand?"

If there were no monetary consequences, then the answer is probably yes.

Even if they could, the Sox shouldn't have paid Swisher the minimum to cry on the bench like a whiny little bitch. There's no room for him in the Sox lineup, thank god. And his whiny bitch-ness precluded him from a utility role on our beloved team. Money had nothing to do with it.

Rowand, on the other hand, would've been an upgrade over anyone the Sox put in the lineup at CF since 2006.

Domeshot17
07-31-2009, 03:36 PM
Even if they could, the Sox shouldn't have paid Swisher the minimum to cry on the bench like a whiny little bitch. There's no room for him in the Sox lineup, thank god. And his whiny bitch-ness precluded him from a utility role on our beloved team. Money had nothing to do with it.

Rowand, on the other hand, would've been an upgrade over anyone the Sox put in the lineup at CF since 2006.

When you give up 3 of your top 5 prospects for him, 2 in the top 100 in the game, you need to find a way to make it work out.

For all the hate to Swisher, how we managed to trade for him, trade him away, and lose both deals is beyond me. I more hate him for that haha

Tragg
07-31-2009, 04:48 PM
No

But we need to find a 3B (and CF)

HomeFish
07-31-2009, 04:50 PM
No. They should have kept Orlando Cabrera.

ode to veeck
07-31-2009, 05:44 PM
No. They should have kept Orlando Cabrera.

Yeah right. Not.

pudge
07-31-2009, 06:14 PM
Jumping on the "no" bandwagon. We remember how clutch Crede was in '05, but we forget the prolonged killer slumps - combine that with injury questions and Boras, heck NO.

BoysMom3
07-31-2009, 07:01 PM
No.

mcfish
07-31-2009, 09:31 PM
Original question:
Absolutely 100% without question NO. In fact, I thought they should have cut ties a year earlier. Thanks for your time here, Joe, but it was very much time to move on.

No. People here underrate josh's improvements and ignore crede's decline.
You got quite a backlash on this one, but I agree with you. Crede's decline has been profound and did not begin in 2009. It started as early as 2007. People seem to like to scapgoat Josh's defense for some reason. I wouldn't say they're on par - Crede's still better - but the gap is not nearly what people think it is.

TomBradley72
08-01-2009, 08:03 PM
When you give up 3 of your top 5 prospects for him, 2 in the top 100 in the game, you need to find a way to make it work out.

For all the hate to Swisher, how we managed to trade for him, trade him away, and lose both deals is beyond me. I more hate him for that haha

C'mon...Sweeney is a decent mlb outfielder...but botth Gio and DLS (injury) haven't done a thing...no way did we lose the deal with the Yankees...they're stuck with his contract and his .238 batting average...we won the deal simply by removing him from our roster without any financial liability.

SI1020
08-01-2009, 08:21 PM
I think Boras should have been open with the Sox about Crede's medical situation so that they wouldn't be expected to make a blind offer, that's what I think. That about sums it up for me. Crede is one of my all time favorite White Sox players and I hated to see him go, but can find no fault with how the team handled his situation.

doublem23
08-01-2009, 10:52 PM
C'mon...Sweeney is a decent mlb outfielder...but botth Gio and DLS (injury) haven't done a thing...no way did we lose the deal with the Yankees...they're stuck with his contract and his .238 batting average...we won the deal simply by removing him from our roster without any financial liability.

People are going to cry about that trade until the cows come home, despite the fact it looks more and more like the Sox didn't give anything up, sans maybe a 4th outfielder with no power. People just need to accept the fact that any Sox prospect that was in the organization prior to 2008 is probably crap and not worth waiting on.

Shoeless_Jim
08-02-2009, 12:44 AM
I would love to have Crede at third Ramirez at second and Beckham at short...but Gordo would not have come up if Crede was in chicago. I like having Beckham and Getz in the lineup, and i think the risk that they may make the occasional error is well worth it. Tonight was a good example of that. Just score enough runs that an error won't matter.

jongarlandlover
08-02-2009, 12:51 AM
At the time, I was seriously peeved that we let Crede go. But in retrospect, KW did the right thing and I've grown quite fond of Newbie (my nickname for Beckham). So I'm rather happy with how things have worked out.

Lip Man 1
08-02-2009, 01:59 AM
Leaving Beckham out of the equation there's no discussion, Kenny had NO choice, none..zero..zippo,,nyet but to let Crede go.

A. His agent turned down a multi year offer during the first time Joe was hurt, specifically saying he was going to play out his option.

B. Joe was coming off back to back years where he missed significant time because of injury.

C. His agent wouldn't allow the Sox to examine medical records. Remember both Ozzie and Kenny commenting on the fact that they had no idea where Joe was while he was hurt and were getting no reports about his rehabilitation.

This is almost an exact set of circumstances akin to what happened with Magglio Ordonez and Frank Thomas.

The Sox let him go because they couldn't (wouldn't) deal with his agent and his tactics and couldn't afford to take a chance to sign him then have him blow out his back again. They simply don't have the payroll to make up for that type of decision if it were to blow up in their face. Now you can argue that the Sox do in fact, have that financial ability should they choose to use it, but that's for a different discussion thread. They work under certain parameters and can't take the chance.

By the way, he'll be gone from the Twins in two months as well. You can bet they don't have the money to re-sign him.

Lip

twinsuck
08-02-2009, 02:21 AM
No!

RedPinStripes
08-02-2009, 02:49 AM
Love Crede, but for the situation, I don't blame Kenny at all. He had to go. Back, agent, DL, not good.

Sam Spade
08-02-2009, 03:43 AM
Who knew Josh's Mom posted at WSI...:D:
I don't really care for josh. He played well this year at 3rd. Can't say the same for crede last year, and I don't watch that many twins games.

doublem23
08-02-2009, 03:48 AM
That said, most of the people here are living in the past. Its kind of sad, really.

:rolleyes:

Josh has plenty of holes in his game, don't make it sound like the Sox kept Mike Schmidt in AAA so they could keep Crede.

Sam Spade
08-02-2009, 03:50 AM
:rolleyes:

Josh has plenty of holes in his game, don't make it sound like the Sox kept Mike Schmidt in AAA so they could keep Crede.
Right, Josh is the man. You can tell exactly what I'm thinking. Way to go.

Ranger
08-02-2009, 01:42 PM
What's with the "natural position" stuff? High school and college teams routinely put their best athletes at shortstop. That doesn't mean that is where they will play forever, or that it is more "natural" for them to play that position than another. It isn't like there is a shortstop gene. Mark Tiexiera played shortstop in college. Should the Yankees move him back to his natural position?

Not to mention the fact it was said from the moment he was drafted last year that he may not even end up being a Major League shortstop.

palehozenychicty
08-03-2009, 12:22 AM
Again, Joe Crede was loved for his heroics in late 2005 and clutch moments throughout his career. After late 2005 and early 06, however, he was never consistently productive again. That was his best hitting period as well.

guillensdisciple
08-03-2009, 12:30 AM
No.