PDA

View Full Version : Canseco: There is a PED user in the Hall of Fame


Eddo144
07-30-2009, 04:53 PM
Via ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4367025).

I saw this article just a few minutes after I posted the following in the Ortiz/Ramirez steroid thread:

My serious questions for those beating the no-PED-users-in-the-Hall-of-Fame-drum:

1. What do you do when a player already elected has been proven to have used PEDs?

2. What do you do with players like McGwire, Sheffield, Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, and Bagwell, who have not have anything proven against them, only speculation?

I'm not saying PED use should be forgiven, or even let into the Hall of Fame, but the not-in-the-Hall-no-way stance is too simplistic to be a viable option.

This is probably a better place to answer my first question.

getonbckthr
07-30-2009, 04:55 PM
I wonder if he likes speaking in 3rd person.:scratch:

spawn
07-30-2009, 04:57 PM
I love how he says "it's not about naming names." Dude, all you've done is name names.

rocky biddle
07-30-2009, 05:00 PM
I'm so sick of Canseco and his "expert opinion" on steroids. I don't care that he was "right" about the PED problem in baseball. I absolutely hate that someone sticks a microphone in his face every time new names come out.

Maybe a few more beatdowns in his so-called fighting career and he'll lose the power of speech...

Eddo144
07-30-2009, 05:02 PM
I wonder if he likes speaking in 3rd person.:scratch:
That was my first guess, too, because of the Oakland connection and being effective at such a late age. :redneck

Pure speculation has brought to mind Wade Boggs (played until old age and was Canseco's teammate at one point) and Nolan Ryan (ditto). I wouldn't go as far to accuse anyone, though.

35th and Shields
07-30-2009, 05:05 PM
Considering this just came out, maybe he's talking about Rickey Henderson. :dunno:

spawn
07-30-2009, 05:06 PM
I'm so sick of Canseco and his "expert opinion" on steroids. I don't care that he was "right" about the PED problem in baseball. I absolutely hate that someone sticks a microphone in his face every time new names come out.

Maybe a few more beatdowns in his so-called fighting career and he'll lose the power of speech...
Awesome post, especially the last part. :thumbsup:

slavko
07-30-2009, 05:14 PM
Considering this just came out, maybe he's talking about Ricky Henderson. :dunno:

Good speculation. Canseco is sure an unsavory character. That doesn't mean that I don't like hearing his revelations. Where else are you going to get the straight "dope?" The Little Brothers of the Poor?

Any good cop can tell you that you have to talk to some bad folks to get information necessary to do your job.

TDog
07-30-2009, 05:17 PM
Good speculation. Canseco is sure an unsavory character. That doesn't mean that I don't like hearing his revelations. Where else are you going to get the straight "dope?" The Little Brothers of the Poor?

Any good cop can tell you that you have to talk to some bad folks to get information necessary to do your job.

And Henderson played in Oakland, which had a lot of bad folks come through the clubhouse, besides Canseco.

areilly
07-30-2009, 05:22 PM
And Henderson played in Oakland, which had a lot of bad folks come through the clubhouse, besides Canseco.

B-R shows 7 HoF teammates of Canseco's:
Nolan Ryan
Rickey Henderson
Wade Boggs
Reggie Jackson
Don Sutton
Rich Gossage
Dennis Eckersley

Two of my younger self's four favorite players on that list. I don't even want to think about this.

:(:

Big D
07-30-2009, 05:28 PM
Canseco's a scumbag, but he obviously knows what he's talking about when he identifies steroid users. I believe him 100% on this. We know that steroids first became used in baseball in at least the 80's (if not earlier), and there are players who played their entire careers during that time and retired before steroids in baseball even became a public controversy. There probably will end up being multiple players elected to the HOF who were PED users.

Boondock Saint
07-30-2009, 06:26 PM
**** Jose Canseco and his self-serving ass.

chisoxfanatic
07-30-2009, 06:33 PM
If he's not gonna name names, then what's the point of even talking about it in the first place?

Big D
07-30-2009, 06:35 PM
If he's not gonna name names, then what's the point of even talking about it in the first place?

To build anticipation for yet another book, where he names the player. Duh.:D:

chisoxfanatic
07-30-2009, 06:40 PM
To build anticipation for yet another book, where he names the player. Duh.:D:
I don't understand why someone would need to even purchase the book. They could just open it up at the book store, look for the name(s), and put the book back if they were so interested. Anyone who would actually buy the book is crazy.

Ron Karkovice
07-30-2009, 08:38 PM
**** Jose Canseco and his self-serving ass.

easyyyy

guillensdisciple
07-30-2009, 08:49 PM
Between Ricky Henderson or Ripken. I am leaning toward Ricky, because he was a pretty buff guy, but would not be surprised if it was Cal. Then again, it is odd that Canseco speaks about it this year after Ricky gets in. Hmmm, makes you wonder doesn't it?

Daver
07-30-2009, 08:58 PM
There are a lot of guys that used PED's that are in the HOF, aphetamines are a PED and they were used extensively through the late fifties and into the seventies.

Big D
07-30-2009, 09:27 PM
Between Ricky Henderson or Ripken. I am leaning toward Ricky, because he was a pretty buff guy, but would not be surprised if it was Cal. Then again, it is odd that Canseco speaks about it this year after Ricky gets in. Hmmm, makes you wonder doesn't it?

I'm pretty sure it wasn't Tony Gwynn. Other than him, no one would really surprise me.

Madvora
07-30-2009, 10:10 PM
I posted a thread about steroids and Rickey Henderson two years ago.
Now that Canseco starts talking about this right after Rickey is inducted into the hall of fame, it's a little more suspicious.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=91481

ernie14
07-30-2009, 10:24 PM
:d:

Ryne sandberg - definitely

Ron Karkovice
07-30-2009, 11:43 PM
:d:

Ryne sandberg - definitely

because he was a CUB right?!!??!?!?!?!? :?:

35th and Shields
07-31-2009, 02:07 AM
I posted a thread about steroids and Rickey Henderson two years ago.
Now that Canseco starts talking about this right after Rickey is inducted into the hall of fame, it's a little more suspicious.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=91481

I wasn't old enough to really remember Rickey playing but just looking at highlights of this guy, he honestly looks like a horse. I mean absolutely huge.

It wouldn't shock me at all, but then again, not many players would.

goon
07-31-2009, 02:21 AM
There are a lot of guys that used PED's that are in the HOF, aphetamines are a PED and they were used extensively through the late fifties and into the seventies.

Yeah, but amphetamines and steroids are very different. One is a stimulant that increases focus, alertness and keeps you hyper, the other other turns you into this:

:canseco


...and makes you hit the ball a lot farther.

Big D
07-31-2009, 03:32 AM
It should be pointed out that you can't tell if someone is on steroids only by how big they are. If somebody like Ted Kluszewski played today, everyone would probably just look at him and assume he was on PED's. Of course, back then he was the only guy that big. When half the players in the league start looking like that you know there's a problem, but I'm not a big fan of speculating about one particular guy in the absence of other evidence simply because "he's big."

http://larry5154.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/ted.jpg

TDog
07-31-2009, 03:49 AM
It should be pointed out that you can't tell if someone is on steroids only by how big they are. If somebody like Ted Kluszewski played today, everyone would probably just look at him and assume he was on PED's. Of course, back then he was the only guy that big. When half the players in the league start looking like that you know there's a problem, but I'm not a big fan of speculating about one particular guy in the absence of other evidence simply because "he's big."

http://larry5154.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/ted.jpg

He was just as big when he played basketball at Indiana University.

Big D
07-31-2009, 03:58 AM
He was just as big when he played basketball at Indiana University.

Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is that some guys are just naturally big dudes. Big Frank might be another example. But when you go from being scrawny to being huge in the span of a few years, like Bonds did, then something's probably going on. Yeah, people do fill out as they enter their mid-20's and 30's, but not that much.

Oblong
07-31-2009, 08:32 AM
Yeah, but amphetamines and steroids are very different. One is a stimulant that increases focus, alertness and keeps you hyper, the other other turns you into this:

...and makes you hit the ball a lot farther.

But it still enhances your performance.

Bob Gibson said that he and many others were so competitive that he can't say for sure he'd never take them if they were available. Back then it wasn't considered a good thing for a baseball player to be lifting weights and adding bulk. They didn't know it would help them. If they did know then they probably would have started. I applaud his honesty. Even into the early 80s. Sparky used to get on Lance Parrish all the time for being "Too big".

daveeym
07-31-2009, 10:06 AM
He was just as big when he played basketball at Indiana University.

That's country bif or farmer big though. When they start showing up looking like the governator and lou ferigno your talking something entirely different. The bodybuilder cut look is an instant tip off.

khan
07-31-2009, 03:22 PM
There are a lot of guys that used PED's that are in the HOF, aphetamines are a PED and they were used extensively through the late fifties and into the seventies.
Amphetamines are still in use today. Amphetamines are used to treat ADD and ADHD. Many players used them in secret until 2006, when MLB specifically banned them. The exception was that players with a prescription and a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD were allowed to use legally-prescribed amphetamines.

As a result, the number of MLB players that claim to have ADD or ADHD has exploded in the past few seasons. In turn, the percentage of MLB players that have a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD and prescribed amphetamines is many-fold higher than in the general population.

downstairs
07-31-2009, 03:29 PM
My guesses:

Dave Winfield
Rickey Henderson
Wade Boggs
Paul Molitor
Dennis Eckersley
Kirby Puckett
Eddie Murray

These are guesses. One I'm absolutely sure of:

Charles Comiskey