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mzh
07-29-2009, 10:53 PM
Still no updates on how severe that right ankle is after making an awkward slide into 2nd in the 7th innings.

GoGoCrede
07-29-2009, 10:55 PM
Posted this in the game thread:

Gonzales' Twitter -
Ramirez on bench starting to rotate ankle and walking from dugout to tunnel under his own power.

DickAllen72
07-29-2009, 11:18 PM
According to Gonzales he has a right ankle sprain and is on crutches. He's scheduled to have x-rays in the morning.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-29-2009, 11:27 PM
Okay, I'll say it. ... If some some reason Ramirez is out a week or so, I would like to see Beckham at SS to see what he could do. No, I don't care about keeping him at 3B because that is where he will likely play the rest of the year when Alexei comes back and he is just getting comfortable there. I want to see Beckhkam at SS and see how he plays that position in the majors.

The Sox may as well get as much information as possible about their players this year because they need to be concerned about the future. If Alexei is out a bit of time, there is no better excuse than to slide Beckham to short now. Seeing Nix play SS does nothing for me.

Konerko05
07-29-2009, 11:33 PM
Okay, I'll say it. ... If some some reason Ramirez is out a week or so, I would like to see Beckham at SS to see what he could do. No, I don't care about keeping him at 3B because that is where he will likely play the rest of the year when Alexei comes back and he is just getting comfortable there. I want to see Beckhkam at SS and see how he plays that position in the majors.

The Sox may as well get as much information as possible about their players this year because they need to be concerned about the future. If Alexei is out a bit of time, there is no better excuse than to slide Beckham to short now. Seeing Nix play SS does nothing for me.

I agree, but I have the feeling the Sox will leave Beckham at 3B for at least the remainder of the season.

I'm wondering if the Sox have any plans at all of having Beckham as their SS in the future.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-29-2009, 11:38 PM
I agree, but I have the feeling the Sox will leave Beckham at 3B for at least the remainder of the season.

I'm wondering if the Sox have any plans at all of having Beckham as their SS in the future.

I wonder if that is in their plans well. Even when they first drafted him, I've always thought Beckham would play second. At 2B, his numbers would be off the charts for that position if he bats as well as I think he will the next 10 years. He would be invaluable at that position.

But if that were the case, Getz would either have to be traded or he would be the utility infielder. In the minors, Getz played most of the infield positions, and he would be good in that role. I'm not in love with Getz's glove at 2B and would like to see that upgraded.

spongyfungy
07-30-2009, 12:41 AM
+1 for me for Beckham at SS

BoysMom3
07-30-2009, 12:54 AM
+1 for me for Beckham at SS

Me too.

oeo
07-30-2009, 01:47 AM
My bet is that Alexei will be back in a few days. We've all seen that guy bend in weird ways and him get up with no problem. It looked bad, but I swear I've seen him do worse.

whitesoxfan
07-30-2009, 02:46 AM
If Ramirez is hurt, get Marco Scutaro. He'll be cheap and he's a FA at the end of this year so it would more than likely be a low risk, high reward type move.

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-30-2009, 08:10 AM
I'd love to see Beckham at SS. My fear is Alexei going to 3B....if he's having trouble at SS making throws, from 3rd they'll end up in the Stadium Club.

Unless Nix or Getz can take 3rd, we're stuck. If Alexei goes to 2B, Beckham to SS and Nix/Getz platooning at 3rd, maybe.

Didn't Kotsay play 3B?

balke
07-30-2009, 08:13 AM
I'd love to see Beckham at SS. My fear is Alexei going to 3B....if he's having trouble at SS making throws, from 3rd they'll end up in the Stadium Club.

Unless Nix or Getz can take 3rd, we're stuck. If Alexei goes to 2B, Beckham to SS and Nix/Getz platooning at 3rd, maybe.

Didn't Kotsay play 3B?

I'm guessing 15 day DL with Fields getting the call. The exact reason he shouldn't have demanded anything.

DumpJerry
07-30-2009, 08:27 AM
I'm guessing 15 day DL with Fields getting the call. The exact reason he shouldn't have demanded anything.
The most likely scenario.

soxfanreggie
07-30-2009, 08:38 AM
Move Bacon to SS to see what he can do, bring Fields back up to put at 3rd for "one more shot", and move Alexei to 2B and then switch back when he gets back if Fields can't do anything. It's worth a shot.

LITTLE NELL
07-30-2009, 08:47 AM
Move Bacon to SS to see what he can do, bring Fields back up to put at 3rd for "one more shot", and move Alexei to 2B and then switch back when he gets back if Fields can't do anything. It's worth a shot.
I have been thinking the same thing, lets give Fields one more shot
for the rest of 09.

russ99
07-30-2009, 08:54 AM
I'd love to see Beckham at SS. My fear is Alexei going to 3B....if he's having trouble at SS making throws, from 3rd they'll end up in the Stadium Club.

Unless Nix or Getz can take 3rd, we're stuck. If Alexei goes to 2B, Beckham to SS and Nix/Getz platooning at 3rd, maybe.

Didn't Kotsay play 3B?

I'd rather see Alexei at 2B and Beckham at SS and an experienced bat at 3B. Scott Rolen might be available...

southside rocks
07-30-2009, 08:59 AM
I have been thinking the same thing, lets give Fields one more shot
for the rest of 09.

Oh please, let's not. Let's not ride our losing positions thinking that the market will come back.

From everything I hear and read, there is not even a slim chance that the club will move Beckham to shortstop; they want him to work on learning 3B.

I'd like to see Fields go in a deal for Scutaro, that would shore up the Sox infield -- Scutaro's still available?

hawkjt
07-30-2009, 09:05 AM
Put Nix at SS and leave Gordon alone. He is the 3rd baseman for the next decade.

Gammons Peter
07-30-2009, 09:10 AM
Put Nix at SS and leave Gordon alone. He is the 3rd baseman for the next decade.


You could say that about him at second or short also, so why not put him at a position where he can excell

hawkjt
07-30-2009, 09:20 AM
You could say that about him at second or short also, so why not put him at a position where he can excell


Because the Sox have no third baseman on the horizon and have Alexei,Nix and Lillibridge who can all play SS?
Beckham is the hottest hitter on the team...lets start moving him around in the field to cool him off?

KyWhiSoxFan
07-30-2009, 09:28 AM
Put Nix at SS and leave Gordon alone. He is the 3rd baseman for the next decade.

I don't think Beckham is the 3B of the next ten years. I see him moving to 2B or SS after this year.

ChicagoHoosier
07-30-2009, 09:39 AM
Keeping Bacon at 3rd, where he's proven he can play adequately, is the best solution for rest of this season. Not reason to move him now.

Well, is Nix a better SS or 3B?

35th and Shields
07-30-2009, 10:19 AM
I also would like to see Beckham SS for at least a few games, but if he stays at third as some of you are saying, does that mean Lillibridge comes up? :o: (assuming TCM to the 15-DL)

Huisj
07-30-2009, 10:25 AM
Didn't Kotsay play 3B?

Kotsay throws left, so no.

nug0hs
07-30-2009, 10:33 AM
In his career, Kotsay has started:

1B - 33 games
OF - 1288 games (2 @ LF, 947 @ CF, 339 @ RF)

He has never made an appearance @ third.

wmusox9
07-30-2009, 11:35 AM
I also would like to see Beckham SS for at least a few games, but if he stays at third as some of you are saying, does that mean Lillibridge comes up? :o: (assuming TCM to the 15-DL)



If Lillibridge comes back up today we might as well start selling.

kevingrt
07-30-2009, 11:42 AM
Because the Sox have no third baseman on the horizon and have Alexei,Nix and Lillibridge who can all play SS?
Beckham is the hottest hitter on the team...lets start moving him around in the field to cool him off?

Well I kind of disagree there and I think the Sox do to. Isn't Dayan Viciedo supposed to be our 3B of the future? Or is it already pretty certain that he will be moving to 1B since we traded Brandon Allen? I cannot say I have been paying much attention to what positions he is playing in Birmingham.

If Lillibridge comes back up today we might as well start selling.

Agree. Beckham, Nix, Getz, and PK around the infield with Lilli as your back up is not something I would really be looking forward to.

oeo
07-30-2009, 12:10 PM
If Lillibridge comes back up today we might as well start selling.

Selling what?

And remember, this is the same division that has greats like Adam Everett and Nick Punto at shortstop.

UChicagoHP
07-30-2009, 12:32 PM
I don't think Beckham is the 3B of the next ten years. I see him moving to 2B or SS after this year.

I agree. Becks is a fine 3B, but that position, ideally, should be filled by a player with more power. At 2B/SS, Beckham can very easily develop into the best hitter at the position in MLB. Of course, the Sox will have to fill the 3B hole, but I think that a + hitter is much easier to find at a corner spot than a MI spot. Just my opinion...time will tell!:gulp:

oeo
07-30-2009, 12:34 PM
I'm guessing 15 day DL with Fields getting the call. The exact reason he shouldn't have demanded anything.

Let's get things right here, for once. Fields didn't 'demand' anything, he talked about his future with Kenny Williams, and apparently they both thought that would be the best way to go.

ike from nj
07-30-2009, 12:37 PM
I agree. Becks is a fine 3B, but that position, ideally, should be filled by a player with more power. At 2B/SS, Beckham can very easily develop into the best hitter at the position in MLB. Of course, the Sox will have to fill the 3B hole, but I think that a + hitter is much easier to find at a corner spot than a MI spot. Just my opinion...time will tell!:gulp:
if the sox really believe alexi is the ss of the future then beckham's position is third base and they will play hom there the rest of this season to get experience. if they move beckham back to ss now it might tell you their real opinion of ramirez.

It's Dankerific
07-30-2009, 12:40 PM
Bacon hasn't proven mentally fragile at all this season. Playing some SS, his natural position, wont do a damn thing to hurt him.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-30-2009, 12:43 PM
Let's get things right here, for once. Fields didn't 'demand' anything, he talked about his future with Kenny Williams, and apparently they both thought that would be the best way to go.

Yeah, I doubt Fields could demand anything. Their conversation probably went something like this:

Fields: "I'd like to talk about my future with this organization."
KW: "What future? You can't hit and you can't field. What do you think your future should be with the Sox?"
Fields: "Well, when you put it that way, I'm not sure, either. Maybe I should go back to AAA and play every day and see if I can improve."

Soxaredabest
07-30-2009, 12:44 PM
I think that if Alexei goes on the 15 day DL: Fields is back up to play 3B everyday, Bacon over to SS.

If Alexei is day to day: Nix plays SS until Alexei's return.

I think they will be very hesitant to move Bacon over to SS because he is still new to the league and is just settling in at 3B. They don't want to mess with his focus.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-30-2009, 12:45 PM
I think that if Alexei goes on the 15 day DL: Fields is back up to play 3B everyday, Bacon over to SS.

If Alexei is day to day: Nix plays SS until Alexei's return.

I think they will be very hesitant to move Bacon over to SS because he is still new to the league and is just settling in at 3B. They don't want to mess with his focus.

Please don't call him Bacon. That is the worst "nickname" in history.

wmusox9
07-30-2009, 12:55 PM
Yeah, I doubt Fields could demand anything. Their conversation probably went something like this:

Fields: "I'd like to talk about my future with this organization."
KW: "What future? You can't hit and you can't field. What do you think your future should be with the Sox?"
Fields: "Well, when you put it that way, I'm not sure, either. Maybe I should go back to AAA and play every day and see if I can improve."

KW: "Good talk Josh, see you in September."

Jim Shorts
07-30-2009, 01:07 PM
I'd be curious to know, but too lazy to look back myself, how many of those now purporting that Bacon go to SS were those in the camp that we brought him up too soon.

seventyseven
07-30-2009, 01:14 PM
please don't call him bacon. That is the worst "nickname" in history.

+1

all*star quentin
07-30-2009, 01:14 PM
I'd be curious to know, but too lazy to look back myself, how many of those now purporting that Bacon go to SS were those in the camp that we brought him up too soon.

Ozzie for one, couldn't help myself:tongue:

Domeshot17
07-30-2009, 01:24 PM
I agree. Becks is a fine 3B, but that position, ideally, should be filled by a player with more power. At 2B/SS, Beckham can very easily develop into the best hitter at the position in MLB. Of course, the Sox will have to fill the 3B hole, but I think that a + hitter is much easier to find at a corner spot than a MI spot. Just my opinion...time will tell!:gulp:


I have said for a long time his value is too low at 3rd base. Offensively an 800-830 OPS at 3rd isn't all star calibur, but move him up the middle and it is. However, I don't know if I would start saying he will easily be the best hitter in the mlb at a position. I am 100% sure he and every other SS in the game would not come close to Hanley Ramirez, and at 2b Chase Utley is really good. He could be an all star pretty easily, but saying things like this can do nothing but bad.

You are right however. Chris Getz has a sub 700 OPS. If you Move Gordon to 2nd, and then picked up a 3b who plays good D, can hit for power and some average, its good for us.

I think in a perfect world he is the 2b of the future for the Sox. You have to assume Ozzie will never replace Alexei, he thinks he is going to be fantastic in a few years at short, so as long as Ozzie manages, Alexei plays short. Vicideo is another player you have to hope works out, and takes over at 3rd. Flowers most likely moves to first as reports on his defense are still not flattering. We drafted a solid hitting C this year who might ultimately be the catcher of the future in Phlegly.

It's Dankerific
07-30-2009, 01:27 PM
Bacon is not a mental midget. Just throw him into his natural position for however long is necessary/best for the team.

If you weren't worried about him playing 3b, why the hell would SS be so damn scary.

I see he really crumbled in the 2nd spot last night too. What the ****.

DumpJerry
07-30-2009, 01:30 PM
Bacon is not a mental midget. Just throw him into his natural position for however long is necessary/best for the team.

If you weren't worried about him playing 3b, why the hell would SS be so damn scary.

I see he really crumbled in the 2nd spot last night too. What the ****.
I did not see the game last night, but according to the box score, he was 2 for 4 (2/3 of our total production). I presume you were being sarcastic.

TDog
07-30-2009, 01:51 PM
if the sox really believe alexi is the ss of the future then beckham's position is third base and they will play hom there the rest of this season to get experience. if they move beckham back to ss now it might tell you their real opinion of ramirez.

Not necessarily. Keeping Beckham at third base could mean they don't trust anyone else with the postion. That doesn't mean they won't go out and find someone they trust with the position and move Beckham to second or short later.

All last year, White Sox people were talking about Ramirez being the shorstop of the future, even when Cabrera was playing short. I believe Cabrera is a pretty good shortstop, but that really isn't relevant to this thread.

Zisk77
07-30-2009, 02:01 PM
Well maybe you leave Beckham at 3b because:

1. You don't want to retard his PHYSICAL development at 3b.

2. He won't play SS in the future because Alexei is actually better.

3. He won't play 2b because the sox like the two candidates there all ready.

4. The sox don't care about their relative "fantasy" value at 2b over 3b. Yes i understand he'll hit way more HR's. and RBI's than the average 2b. He will also have greater range, steal more bases, and score more from second and first than the average 3b... so what? We have enough power elsewhere, this is not a build a team by numbers set.

5. Maybe, just maybe, the sox have a better idea of what their doing than we do and are better at evaluating talent.

Regardless of waht is actually done, half the board will be up in arms spouting their agendas and ignoring what doesn't fit.

Its Ozzie's Fault
Its Kenny's Fault
Jerry's Cheap
BA is God, BA is terrible.
D.Wise is the Antichrist

Not that these aren't valid topics of discussion, but must we discuss them in every thread?

Now does anyone really know what Alexei's status truly is? which is why I clicked on this thread in the 1st place.:angry:

Carry-on with the monday morning GMing.

Domeshot17
07-30-2009, 02:12 PM
Well maybe you leave Beckham at 3b because:

1. You don't want to retard his PHYSICAL development at 3b.

2. He won't play SS in the future because Alexei is actually better.

3. He won't play 2b because the sox like the two candidates there all ready.

4. The sox don't care about their relative "fantasy" value at 2b over 3b. Yes i understand he'll hit way more HR's. and RBI's than the average 2b. He will also have greater range, steal more bases, and score more from second and first than the average 3b... so what? We have enough power elsewhere, this is not a build a team by numbers set.

5. Maybe, just maybe, the sox have a better idea of what their doing than we do and are better at evaluating talent.

Regardless of waht is actually done, half the board will be up in arms spouting their agendas and ignoring what doesn't fit.

Its Ozzie's Fault
Its Kenny's Fault
Jerry's Cheap
BA is God, BA is terrible.
D.Wise is the Antichrist

Not that these aren't valid topics of discussion, but must we discuss them in every thread?

Now does anyone really know what Alexei's status truly is? which is why I clicked on this thread in the 1st place.:angry:

Carry-on with the monday morning GMing.

It isn't about fantasty value its just how things are. First 3rd and Corner Of tend to be power positions. Almost any team can find a 1st baseman or 3rd baseman who has 20 home run power. A good team can have 30 homer power. You aren't choosing Beckham by moving him from 3rd to 2nd, you are choosing a better hitter over Getz.

There is truth to the fact that in the long term, Beckham is more valuable at 2b or SS than 3b.

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-30-2009, 02:34 PM
Kotsay throws left, so no.

That's right - my bad.

TomBradley72
07-30-2009, 02:47 PM
Unless TCM is out for an extended period of time...I wouldn't move Beckham to SS. Beckham/Nix is better then Fields/Beckham as far as defense goes...Fields is a statue at 3rd base.

So far this season...Nix and Fields have pretty much equal at the plate.

Long term...I see Beckham as a 2nd baseman, not a SS.

Konerko05
07-30-2009, 03:00 PM
I don't agree with moving our #1 prospect around to accomodate a need within the organization. I'm alright with playing Beckham at 3B for the rest of the season, but he should be moved back to the middle infield after the season.

What ever happened to acquiring players outside of the organization? The White Sox aren't the Florida Marlins, they do have resources to find a real 3B next season.

It isn't about fantasy baseball, it's just about putting the best team possible on the field. Beckham's bat can play at 3B, but it's not utilizing his full value.

The Sox will be much more productive with Beckham's .850 OPS at 2B. It eliminates a .700 OPS from the lineup, while adding more power at 3B (with the addition of a 3B). Not to mention the defense should improve. Beckham's atheleticism is wasted at 3B. A natural 3B will be able to get to more balls down the line.

I like Chris Getz, he's a decent player but he's not good enough to push Beckham to a corner position. Nor are the Sox handcuffed to the point where they are forced to play Beckham at 3B as a "need."

Zisk77
07-30-2009, 03:17 PM
It isn't about fantasty value its just how things are. First 3rd and Corner Of tend to be power positions. Almost any team can find a 1st baseman or 3rd baseman who has 20 home run power. A good team can have 30 homer power. You aren't choosing Beckham by moving him from 3rd to 2nd, you are choosing a better hitter over Getz.

There is truth to the fact that in the long term, Beckham is more valuable at 2b or SS than 3b.

Valuable to whom? The Sox or the team we are trading Beckham to?


Yes I understand that those are traditional power positions. I understand you get a bonus if you have an A-rod at ss versuss a David Eckstein.

But what really matters (and the sox are trying to have is power in the middle and speed at the top or bottom). Yes Beckham is going to blow Getz's power stats out of the water (but maybe not Nix?) But Getz could be a 300 hitter that bats 1st or second or 9th.

Beckham may not have the power #'s a marquis 3b has (how many current 3b are sluggers?) such as Longoria. However we have more thatn enough power numbers at other positions especially in the future:

C A.J. than maybe Flowers
1b Konerko than Viciedo? or Flowers?
SS Alexie
LF TCQ
CF Mitchell? Danks? Rios?
Rf Dye, Viciedo?
DH ? but will be a slugger

We griped about how slow and plodding we were, but the spped has to play somewhere?

Pods was way undervalue for a LF, but we don't win a ws in 2005 without him.

Sean Casey and Mark Grace had lesser power than their average first baseman, were they not valuable to their teams.

The yankees won ws with charlie hayes and scott brosius playing 3b.

While you could say that The phils are a great example of getting offensive value at a pos. like 2b with Utley the trade off is Pedro Feliz at 3b last year and his 14 hrs.

Beckham only makes since at 2b if it helps the team better (not just power stats) with him there and no Getz/Nix and someone else playing 3b.

So if Fields channels his rookie year and for a full year hits 240 with 32 hrs and 80 rbi's We would be better off with Beckham at 2b. Than Getz hitting 295 with 35 SB, a bunch of sacrifices and succesful hit and runs? 5hr and 50 rbi's?

or Viciedo hitting 40 hrs and 110 rbis but catching nothing at 3b?

Really how many of your protypical 3b are out there?

Longoria
Arod
ARam
The days of Mike Schmidt, Ron Cey, & Craig Nettles are gone. Hell their may be more slugging SS now.

How does Beckham's projected value stack up against these 3b's:

Twins: Crede
Tigers: Inge
Indians: Peralta
Royals: Gordon
Angels: Figgins
Rangers: Young
Mariners: Beltre
A's: TBD Wallace?
Orioles: Mora
Jays: Rolen
Bosox: Youkilis/Lowell
Dodgers: Blake
Padres: ?
Giants: ? Uribe?
Colorodo: Atkins
D'backs: Reynolds
Cards: Derosa
Bucs: Laroche
Brewers:? Hall? Can't think of dudes name.
Reds: ? looking for a 3b
Braves: ?
Marlins : ? (but they have Uggla at 2b ooh)
Phils: Feliz
Nats Zimmermen.

I think Beckhams value compared to most of those guys will be on par if not better.

Damn't you got me arguing now...how's alexie!!!!

Domeshot17
07-30-2009, 03:24 PM
I can't argue with made up numbers.

Chris Getz is hitting 260 with a sub 700 OPS and playing marginal defense. He is a rookie, so yes, maybe he finds a way to be a 300 hitter. He is a smart base stealer (14 sbs to 1 CS). However, If we could find a .300 hitting 3b with a higher OPS who can run well, it would infact make our team better.

TDog
07-30-2009, 03:36 PM
I think that if Alexei goes on the 15 day DL: Fields is back up to play 3B everyday, Bacon over to SS.

If Alexei is day to day: Nix plays SS until Alexei's return.

I think they will be very hesitant to move Bacon over to SS because he is still new to the league and is just settling in at 3B. They don't want to mess with his focus.

If the White Sox were happy with Fields playing third on a regular basis, they wouldn't have brought up Beckham when they did after playing a few games at third.

Zisk77
07-30-2009, 03:50 PM
I can't argue with made up numbers.

Chris Getz is hitting 260 with a sub 700 OPS and playing marginal defense. He is a rookie, so yes, maybe he finds a way to be a 300 hitter. He is a smart base stealer (14 sbs to 1 CS). However, If we could find a .300 hitting 3b with a higher OPS who can run well, it would infact make our team better.


And I concede that Getz might not be better than what he is or may be worse.

What i see with Getz Offensively is a good contact hitter that hits a lot of line drives. He is not a free swinger but (like most rookies) will occasionally chase the high fb and slider low and in. i think with his speed and ability to make solid contact he could be a hitter that hit at or around 300. Contrast him to another solid rookie campaign in Fields who had an obvious hole in his swing.

defensive Chris has great range but has made some routine errors. yet he doesn't appear to be a butcher there and will likely improve with experience.

Now I'm not accusing you dome specifically (as I'm too lazy to look up everyone's one posts) but it seems that all the people clamoring for Beckham to move to SS or 2b are the same cats that accuse Ozzie, kenny, and the whole organization for developing their own players...lets develop them instead of assuming what you see is what u get during their rookie years. We an always move Beckham later if they fail.

DickAllen72
07-30-2009, 06:25 PM
Cowley's twitter says Ramirez is probably out until Monday.