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ms620
07-29-2009, 05:57 AM
This is not an overreaction. I still think/know that the Sox can definately win this division. I know that if the Sox make the playoffs, and get hot, anything can happen. They have not played well at all this season, and are only 2 games out. So this is not a panic thread. But, I do think that a bigger rebuild might make a lot of sense.

When was the last time that the Sox had so many promising young players? And not promising based on high school or college performance, promising due to MLB or minor league performance. Here are just some but feel free to add:
Beckham, Getz, TCM, TCQ, Danks, Floyd, Richard, Flowers, Viciedo, Jo Danks, D Hudson, D Carter, Mitchell, and I am sure I am missing some. It does not look like the Sox are a championship team right now. Their defense is not good enough, and that is not likely to improve much over the next 2 months. Their bullpen is extremely shaky. I think you can get some teams to overpay a bit if they cannot get a Halladay or Lee. Here are the players thats I would consider trading:

Dye: It would be hard to see him go, but he has so much value right now. He would instantly make a team's lineup so much better.

Konerko/Thome: Not sure how likely this is due to contract situations etc. but if a deal can be aggreed upon this would really be a smart move.

Dotel: I actually have not lost faith in Dotel. I think he can get a nice return by a team looking for a 7th/8th inning arm.

Jenks: I will get hammered for this one, but I think this might be a good time to get a return for him.

I would not trade Thornton. I would not trade Danks or Floyd. I would consider a TCM trade b/c it would open up short for Beckham. I think the Sox have some great trading pieces, and when added to their already much improved minor league system, the Sox can set themselves up for a great run in a couple years.

At the same time, this is tough b/c the division is very winnable, and with the starting rotation, the Sox are a very dangerous team. It will be iteresting to see which way Kenny goes.

HBaines03
07-29-2009, 06:49 AM
I don't see this happening because it will go against everything KW and Oz have been saying all along ( we can compete with this team). I think Carlos Quentin's injury is killing us in so many ways right now. It is hurting our offense to the point we can't score more than 3 runs per game and it is also hurting that we can't trade Dye for good young talent to a team in need of a power bat. With as much money that is coming off the books this year and the infield pretty much set for next year, I see KW trying to make deals for a serious leadoff hitter/OF and upper level pitching so we can make a serious run next year. If we continue to slide than maybe they make a late tade of Dye for young talent, otherwise they offer him arb. and if he goes we get picks, if he agrees we have our new DH for next year.

Hartman
07-29-2009, 07:45 AM
We already made a trade. Mark Kotsay will change our season.

ode to veeck
07-29-2009, 09:58 AM
in a word, no

Luke
07-29-2009, 10:06 AM
It's a tough call with the team this year. Somehow they've managed to demonstrate that they can both compete in (if not win) the division, while also showing they can be flat out disappointing at times.

I would say this is a good year to hold steady, and I base this on a few things:

1)The cost of impact talent right now is insane. Even if the Sox had the type of talent to get in on some of these discussions, the cost would be so sky high that I don't think it's worth it.

2)This team is good, but they aren't world beaters. They can certainly win the AL Central, but I'm not sure if the addition of any of the names out there makes them a contender to win the World Series or even go deep in the Playoffs.

3)The players on this team that can be moved have a limited or full NTC. This strengthens the position of any team Kenny would be negotiating with and lessens potential returns (at least in theory). On top of that, teams are less and less willing to move prospects for rent-a-players.

4)If no moves are made, worst case is the Sox miss the playoffs, some money comes off the books next year, and you retool a bit, and get a couple draft picks in the process. If they make a move for a vet guy they may make the Playofffs, possibly go far. However, the worst case is, you've moved prospects, still don't make the playoffs, and potentially get saddled with salary for additional year(s). If they dump, worst case is they still don't make playoffs, miss out on picks, and the prospects they pick up don't work out.

I know it's kind of boring, and doesn't necessarily fit with Kenny's attitude, but I think standing pat has the highest reward for the least risk this year.

asindc
07-29-2009, 10:27 AM
No.

ike from nj
07-29-2009, 10:39 AM
i agree but i would add AJ to your list...

spawn
07-29-2009, 10:39 AM
i agree but i would add AJ to your list...
What a surprise. :rolleyes:

hawkjt
07-29-2009, 10:44 AM
It's a tough call with the team this year. Somehow they've managed to demonstrate that they can both compete in (if not win) the division, while also showing they can be flat out disappointing at times.

I would say this is a good year to hold steady, and I base this on a few things:

1)The cost of impact talent right now is insane. Even if the Sox had the type of talent to get in on some of these discussions, the cost would be so sky high that I don't think it's worth it.

2)This team is good, but they aren't world beaters. They can certainly win the AL Central, but I'm not sure if the addition of any of the names out there makes them a contender to win the World Series or even go deep in the Playoffs.

3)The players on this team that can be moved have a limited or full NTC. This strengthens the position of any team Kenny would be negotiating with and lessens potential returns (at least in theory). On top of that, teams are less and less willing to move prospects for rent-a-players.

4)If no moves are made, worst case is the Sox miss the playoffs, some money comes off the books next year, and you retool a bit, and get a couple draft picks in the process. If they make a move for a vet guy they may make the Playofffs, possibly go far. However, the worst case is, you've moved prospects, still don't make the playoffs, and potentially get saddled with salary for additional year(s). If they dump, worst case is they still don't make playoffs, miss out on picks, and the prospects they pick up don't work out.

I know it's kind of boring, and doesn't necessarily fit with Kenny's attitude, but I think standing pat has the highest reward for the least risk this year.


I agree. Cannot wave any flags at this point or you lose the fanbase. Kenny has to strike a balance and so far he has done it this year...let the youngsters grow,and still win the division..best of both worlds.
I am sure he has a plan of this offseason...he knows what he needs to do.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-29-2009, 10:47 AM
I'd be trading--for the future, not this year. Which means, I guess, I would be a seller.

This team is too flawed to believe they could do any damage in the playoffs, if they could even make the playoffs. It is time to think of next year and the holes they have to fill to be even more competitive (that is, be more than a .500 team).

ms620
07-29-2009, 10:51 AM
No.

I love all of these 1 word answers. Obviously if you do not get what you want you do not trade and you see what you can do to improve the team. But the point is this, anyone who can say that the Sox as currently constructed are a legit championship contender is completely fooling themselves. Chances are the Sox best chance for a championship will be i a couple years when some of the young guys reach the big leagues. I am not content with winning divisions and losing in the first round. In my opinion, that is the best case scenario for this season. It is possible to catch lightning in a bottle..but not likely. Sox have some great pieces that they can trade. These pieces will prob not be a part of the Sox after the next few seasons. Build for the future if you get the opportunity. Sox will not lose the fan base if they trade away jermaine or Jenks. Def not if they trade Dotel. Any fans they "lose" would come crawling back if the Sox build a great team.

asindc
07-29-2009, 10:53 AM
I love all of these 1 word answers. Obviously if you do not get what you want you do not trade and you see what you can do to improve the team. But the point is this, anyone who can say that the Sox as currently constructed are a legit championship contender is completely fooling themselves. Chances are the Sox best chance for a championship will be i a couple years when some of the young guys reach the big leagues. I am not content with winning divisions and losing in the first round. In my opinion, that is the best case scenario for this season. It is possible to catch lightning in a bottle..but not likely. Sox have some great pieces that they can trade. These pieces will prob not be a part of the Sox after the next few seasons. Build for the future if you get the opportunity. Sox will not lose the fan base if they trade away jermaine or Jenks. Def not if they trade Dotel. Any fans they "lose" would come crawling back if the Sox build a great team.

I don't see the need to elaborate.

hawkjt
07-29-2009, 11:08 AM
Saying that you are not content with winning divisions and not titles sounds like Bernstein at the Score.
Pitching wins in the playoffs. Sox have three solid starters in MB,Floyd and Danks. If they had been rested and ready to go last year, Sox could have beat the Rays.

Hitting comes and goes, but pitching and defense are there everyday..you hope. The pitching should be there, and if we are fortunate, the hitting will just get hot, like Crede did his last 40 days in 05. He stunk until september in 05 but ended up being our best hitter the last 40 days.

Get in the playoffs every year you can...prospects are suspects until proven otherwise.

jdm2662
07-29-2009, 11:08 AM
Do you remember 1997 guys? How was your reaction to the imfamous trade? Did you like being the laughing stock of the entire country? Forgive me as I was boycotting baseball at the time. However, when I look at baseballreference.com, I see they were a .500 team, 3.5 games out, and playing in a crappy division. The Indians won the diviison division despite winning only 86 games. That team in 1997 might've been even more crappy than this one. This team is close to .500 and only two games out. I will fully acknowledge this team isn't very good, but was that 1997 team that good? Probably not. Yet, it was an embarassment that trade was made. The same thing will happen now. Sorry, I don't want that.

ms620
07-29-2009, 11:17 AM
Do you remember 1997 guys? How was your reaction to the imfamous trade? Did you like being the laughing stock of the entire country? Forgive me as I was boycotting baseball at the time. However, when I look at baseballreference.com, I see they were a .500 team, 3.5 games out, and playing in a crappy division. The Indians won the diviison division despite winning only 86 games. That team in 1997 might've been even more crappy than this one. This team is close to .500 and only two games out. I will fully acknowledge this team isn't very good, but was that 1997 team that good? Probably not. Yet, it was an embarassment that trade was made. The same thing will happen now. Sorry, I don't want that.

Yea I remember that trade. Check this out to refresh your memory:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2001-03-21/2001-03-21-minors.htm

VeeckAsInWreck
07-29-2009, 11:23 AM
I'd say it is time to trade if we're the buyers. But we should not be selling.

I remember that '97 team like it was yesterday and they had nowhere near the talent this one has.

Also this year's Tigers don't have as talented a team as those '97 Indians.

This year is still not out of the question for this team to contend.

kittle42
07-29-2009, 11:30 AM
I am going to go out on what I feel is not much of a limb and say that I think the Sox will do nothing (or next to nothing) before the deadline. Another deal like yesterday's is all I expect.

Jimmy Piersall
07-29-2009, 11:42 AM
I am going to go out on what I feel is not much of a limb and say that I think the Sox will do nothing (or next to nothing) before the deadline. Another deal like yesterday's is all I expect.

I agree with 'ya here and that means we're stuck spinning wheels for the
rest of the season.Could be anywhere from a 78-84 win team which gets us squat.

russ99
07-29-2009, 12:37 PM
If the sox make a significant trade, it will be to add, not sell.

We're 2 games out of first. To sell now would be worse than White Flag.

ike from nj
07-29-2009, 02:42 PM
If the sox make a significant trade, it will be to add, not sell.

We're 2 games out of first. To sell now would be worse than White Flag.
unless they deal AJ

TDog
07-29-2009, 03:27 PM
This is not an overreaction. ....

I beg to differ.

ms620
07-29-2009, 04:03 PM
I beg to differ.

Great analysis. The goal of any GM should not to be the best team in their division. It should be to create the best team overall. If the Sox were in the East or the West they would be definite sellers. All I am saying is that the Sox have valuable trading pieces, and it might make sense to take advantage if teams overpay. I just dont think like the people who think that losing division games do not matter b.c the Sox are still only 2 games back. The Sox have a brutal schedule coming up, and I do not think that the realistic ceiling for this season is very high. If you think like a GM instead of like a fan you will realize that you cannot always "go for it".

spawn
07-29-2009, 04:12 PM
I don't see the need to elaborate.
I will. HELL no.

thedudeabides
07-29-2009, 04:20 PM
Great analysis. The goal of any GM should not to be the best team in their division. It should be to create the best team overall. If the Sox were in the East or the West they would be definite sellers. All I am saying is that the Sox have valuable trading pieces, and it might make sense to take advantage if teams overpay. I just dont think like the people who think that losing division games do not matter b.c the Sox are still only 2 games back. The Sox have a brutal schedule coming up, and I do not think that the realistic ceiling for this season is very high. If you think like a GM instead of like a fan you will realize that you cannot always "go for it".


Tell that to Kenny Williams. He's always going for it. And being the best team in your division should be your first goal, because it's the only way to guarantee you can get in the playoffs. You can't win the World Series if you don't make the playoffs. The Sox have a ton to gain by winning the division this year, even if they aren't the best team in the American League. When you're in a position to win the division, you go for it. Selling, right now would be insane.

Boondock Saint
07-29-2009, 04:57 PM
unless they deal AJ

Do you, like, watch baseball, right? You know, you need to have a catcher play every day. AJ is the one player on our roster that can be considered a viable everyday option at that position. AJ is a fine catcher, and I don't see the reasoning behind your insistence on trading him away.

Tragg
07-29-2009, 05:17 PM
I remember that '97 team like it was yesterday and they had nowhere near the talent this one has.

Also this year's Tigers don't have as talented a team as those '97 Indians.

This year is still not out of the question for this team to contend.
That team had Frank, Albert Belle and Mike Cameron.
Now the pitching staff was iffy, and what there was, went to the Giants.
Certainly the Tigers aren't as good as Cleveland was. But to what extent is winning a division a goal? Or should we look at the real chance at a pennant? I think Boston and NY this year are better than the best teams in 1997.
What are the chances that this team that is sitting around .500 can really contend?

fuzzy_patters
07-29-2009, 05:35 PM
That team had Frank, Albert Belle and Mike Cameron.
Now the pitching staff was iffy, and what there was, went to the Giants.
Certainly the Tigers aren't as good as Cleveland was. But to what extent is winning a division a goal? Or should we look at the real chance at a pennant? I think Boston and NY this year are better than the best teams in 1997.
What are the chances that this team that is sitting around .500 can really contend?

I don't know. Ask the 2006 Cardinals.

TDog
07-29-2009, 05:38 PM
Great analysis. The goal of any GM should not to be the best team in their division. It should be to create the best team overall. If the Sox were in the East or the West they would be definite sellers. All I am saying is that the Sox have valuable trading pieces, and it might make sense to take advantage if teams overpay. I just dont think like the people who think that losing division games do not matter b.c the Sox are still only 2 games back. The Sox have a brutal schedule coming up, and I do not think that the realistic ceiling for this season is very high. If you think like a GM instead of like a fan you will realize that you cannot always "go for it".

I think a lot more like a general manager than a fan. And I thought analysis would be redundant.

The general manager has built a good, competitive team. There is plenty of room for improvement, of course. That is true with most teams, especially this season. Making trades from your major league roster midseason to try to improve the team is like what many people experience when trying to solve Rubik's cube. Every move that seems to get you closer also creates new holes.

Even in the unlikely event that you were able to find the cooperation of other teams to fill all of your holes on paper by trading multiple everyday players, you will end up with a team that hasn't played together. They might not come together until it's too late. You will see contenders acquiring veterans and rising stars for fringe players and prospects, but you don't see general managers for contenders trading their veteran talent if they are going for it. That's because they think like general managers.

You don't see the Red Sox, looking to deal Papelbon to upgrade their closer even though he blew a three-run ninth-inning save last night to the last-place A's for his third blown save of the season. That would be overracting.

Most likely, the deals aren't out there to be made, and if they were, the White Sox wouldn't be improving their team by making them.

balke
07-29-2009, 06:26 PM
If Pierre or Rios can be had... I'm ready. I hate Coco Crisp but I'd even take him at this point. If a defensive SS is available, sign me up.

I think there has to be a backup for Alexei at this point, and possibly it might even be to the point of putting him back at 2B and trying to acquire a good SS. The Sox overall have a good thing going, and I think offensively or defensively they need to upgrade one of those 2 positions.

soxyess
07-30-2009, 02:19 PM
With the non-waiver deadline about 24hrs away, does KW make a major deal to get us another starter, does he make another Kotsay type deal, or does he stand pat?

Noir
07-30-2009, 02:21 PM
Doubt KW is done. he'll make one trade, maybe two if he is lucky

Rockabilly
07-30-2009, 02:23 PM
he will make a small trade. Probably for Pie from the Orioles

Jimmy Piersall
07-30-2009, 02:23 PM
If he stands pat,massive barfing to follow.

fugazis
07-30-2009, 02:24 PM
With the non-waiver deadline about 24hrs away, does KW make a major deal to get us another starter, does he make another Kotsay type deal, or does he stand pat?

I say yes to all of the above, even the part about standing pat.

Domeshot17
07-30-2009, 02:31 PM
Can't buy something that costs a dollar when we only have .50 cents.

Kotsay was the big pick up. We haven't even been rumored in much. I know Kenny flies low, but I think he is content letting this team play itself to .500 and a 2nd or 3rd place finish. The fact we are only 3 back means we are overachieving expectations. I don't think Kenny or Ozzie feel any pressure to improve the team outside he possibility of finding a better 9th inning CF than Wise.

35th and Shields
07-30-2009, 02:33 PM
I guess we'll have to wait and see. :waiting:

SoxSpeed22
07-30-2009, 02:40 PM
I think that he makes a few more minor deals. I expect to see Fields go. The only big name that I see getting dealt is Dotel. There are plenty of teams that could use him, and Pena has the ability to be around for a while.

jabrch
07-30-2009, 02:42 PM
Do you remember 1997 guys? How was your reaction to the imfamous trade? Did you like being the laughing stock of the entire country?

You really give a damn what the rest of the country thinks of the baseball team that you follow?

TDog
07-30-2009, 02:44 PM
You really give a damn what the rest of the country thinks of the baseball team that you follow?

The way people here react at the hint of any slight to the White Sox anywhere in the country, I'm guessing that was a rhetorical question.

soxfanreggie
07-30-2009, 02:47 PM
We can't forget about all the waiver trading though. That has become a big part of the playoff race as well.

35th and Shields
07-30-2009, 02:51 PM
You really give a damn what the rest of the country thinks of the baseball team that you follow?

I've never understood this remark. Is it because we're White Sox fans we shouldn't want any recognition about our team?

Some people like to hear about the Sox and others don"t really care. I'm not sure why this is brought up so frequently.

dwalteroo
07-30-2009, 02:53 PM
I think that he makes a few more minor deals. I expect to see Fields go. The only big name that I see getting dealt is Dotel. There are plenty of teams that could use him, and Pena has the ability to be around for a while.

I could see that. Or Poreda. But who do we get with such names? Looks like Sherrill was just dealt, so he's out. Pie? Trying to think with my KW hat on, which isn't easy whatsoever.

oeo
07-30-2009, 02:56 PM
Can't buy something that costs a dollar when we only have .50 cents.

Kotsay was the big pick up. We haven't even been rumored in much. I know Kenny flies low, but I think he is content letting this team play itself to .500 and a 2nd or 3rd place finish. The fact we are only 3 back means we are overachieving expectations. I don't think Kenny or Ozzie feel any pressure to improve the team outside he possibility of finding a better 9th inning CF than Wise.

Damn, your act is old.

Domeshot17
07-30-2009, 03:06 PM
Damn, your act is old.

So what do you believe? This is a championship team? This is not a .500 team give or take 3 games in either direction? We just went from first place team to losing 6 of 7 to the 2 teams infront of us. If that doesn't scream urgency I don't know what does?

Lip Man 1
07-30-2009, 03:10 PM
OEO:

Very true.

As is the fact that over the past 25 years the Sox have referred to attendance / economics etc. a number of times as well.

If they can't afford to do something because of money, or attendance or it'll cut into the profit margin, fine. That's their business...I'd just like them to keep quiet about it.

And Dome's statement was factually stated by Kenny at his introductory press conference in November 2000 in case you've forgotten.

Lip

RCWHITESOX
07-30-2009, 03:20 PM
he will make a small trade. Probably for Pie from the Orioles

You can add Pie and Wise together and still have the same thing ; absolutely nothing!

soxyess
07-30-2009, 03:24 PM
Im guessing KW stands pat, or very minor trade(Fields for mid to low level prospects). I dont think JR or KW truly feels that we have the club to go deep in the playoffs, but rather than do a white flag type trade which is a PR nightmare, KW will play the season out let all the salary come off the books, and build a team over the winter. You can pretty much bet that next years team will not have Thome, Dye, Dotel, Konerko, or Pods. The team will be rebuilt with an emphasis on speed and line drive hitting.

SoxSpeed22
07-30-2009, 03:25 PM
I can live with a Fields for Pie trade, since it's basically one failed prospect for another. If it's any bigger name, then it would be a problem.

russ99
07-31-2009, 11:01 AM
C'mon Kenny, do something!

The Tigers got Washburn, the Twins are close to adding O. Cabrera.

We need another starter and/or reliever.

Another OF would be nice but not essential.

russ99
07-31-2009, 11:03 AM
Im guessing KW stands pat, or very minor trade(Fields for mid to low level prospects). I dont think JR or KW truly feels that we have the club to go deep in the playoffs, but rather than do a white flag type trade which is a PR nightmare, KW will play the season out let all the salary come off the books, and build a team over the winter. You can pretty much bet that next years team will not have Thome, Dye, Dotel, Konerko, or Pods. The team will be rebuilt with an emphasis on speed and line drive hitting.

Who do you replace those guys with and still have any chance at winning 70 games much less 90?

I think one or two of those guys will leave and Kenny will fill in the rest. But I hope this year it's with FAs or guys acquires in trades rather than the worn-out "hope a prospect works" approach...

ndgt10
07-31-2009, 11:12 AM
I think a Poreda and Flowers for Bradley swap with the cubs would be a good deal.

spawn
07-31-2009, 11:13 AM
I think a Poreda and Flowers for Bradley swap with the cubs would be a good deal.
:tealtutor:

Zisk77
07-31-2009, 11:15 AM
Im guessing KW stands pat, or very minor trade(Fields for mid to low level prospects). I dont think JR or KW truly feels that we have the club to go deep in the playoffs, but rather than do a white flag type trade which is a PR nightmare, KW will play the season out let all the salary come off the books, and build a team over the winter. You can pretty much bet that next years team will not have Thome, Dye, Dotel, Konerko, or Pods. The team will be rebuilt with an emphasis on speed and line drive hitting.


i'd be shocked if Konerko's gone because of his contract. I think Dye may be resigned as well. You can however, add Contreras to the list not coming back.

BleacherBandit
07-31-2009, 11:16 AM
I think a Poreda and Flowers for Bradley swap with the cubs would be a good deal.
:o:

Even if you think he's a good player (and God forbid), don't you know anything about the nature of his RIDICULOUS contract?

soxfanreggie
07-31-2009, 11:42 AM
I think with Pods it depends on what he's going to be asking for next season. I think he'll be looking for a 2 or 3 year deal, and he might end up some place like KC, Pittsburgh, etc. I wouldn't mind bringing him back here, as he could be a good 4th OF to have and a great PR option. I'm not sure I want to test out if he'd be productive for all of the years he might sign for. I also don't know how much he'll be looking for: 2 years, $6 million?

whitesoxfan
07-31-2009, 01:17 PM
So the Tigers and Twins get better and we're not doing anything.

Kenny? :scratch:

guillensdisciple
07-31-2009, 01:19 PM
Kenny must be very confident in the product we have, or we just don't have the means to trade. Either way, I hope Kenny knows what he is doing, because I am used to seeing winning baseball on the South Side.

whitesoxfan
07-31-2009, 01:24 PM
Kenny must be very confident in the product we have, or we just don't have the means to trade. Either way, I hope Kenny knows what he is doing, because I am used to seeing winning baseball on the South Side.

The record that we have is indicative of the team we have. He must think this division is as bad as the 2006 NL Central was when the Cards were basically a .500 team and somehow won it all.

I don't know, the Tigers biggest weakness was their 3-4-5 spots in their rotation and now they arguably have one of the toughest 1-2-3's in the majors. The Twins had a black hole at SS and they filled that with OC (who's been raking lately).

Baron
07-31-2009, 01:27 PM
The record that we have is indicative of the team we have. He must think this division is as bad as the 2006 NL Central was when the Cards were basically a .500 team and somehow won it all.

I don't know, the Tigers biggest weakness was their 3-4-5 spots in their rotation and now they arguably have one of the toughest 1-2-3's in the majors. The Twins had a black hole at SS and they filled that with OC (who's been raking lately).

Atleast Training camp is today it can take away most of the anger when Kenny sits on his butt today.

EMel9281
07-31-2009, 01:36 PM
Either Kenny does have confidence in this team, which is shaky in many of us, or he has resigned himself to putting a third-place product out there this year and will restock in the offseason.

Or he'll make a waiver deal, who knows. I just want to see some winning baseball, especially with the year that Buehrle has had and the emergence of Bacon. I feel like if we don't make the playoffs, these efforts have been wasted this year.

soxyess
07-31-2009, 01:40 PM
How does a team thats loaded like Boston try and make a move for Martinez, and a team like ours with all the question marks that we have stand pat?

TheVulture
07-31-2009, 01:45 PM
I'm sorry, but if Contreras happens to be on his game in October, the Sox have the pitching to win. The Sox should be in good shape for '10, with all the young players and massive payroll flexibility, as it is. No way do you through away the chance the Sox have this year.

Domeshot17
07-31-2009, 01:47 PM
How does a team thats loaded like Boston try and make a move for Martinez, and a team like ours with all the question marks that we have stand pat?

Boston is an example of why I feel the excuse you can't draft well and have a big farm while winning is somewhat BS. Yes, you don't have the chance to draft in the top or the draft, but the Red Sox and to an extent the Yankees do a very good job of finding talent late in round 1, in the sandwhich rounds, and in round 2. The Redsox are also very smart in taking advantage of type A and B free agents

I don't like it with Money excuses, but Kenny is right when he says he cant make a trade with prospects he does not have.

jabrch
07-31-2009, 02:07 PM
I think a Poreda and Flowers for Bradley swap with the cubs would be a good deal.

This would be a GREAT deal.

jabrch
07-31-2009, 02:08 PM
Kenny must be very confident in the product we have, or we just don't have the means to trade. Either way, I hope Kenny knows what he is doing, because I am used to seeing winning baseball on the South Side.


another option is that our biggest needs may not fillable at a price worth paying.

thedudeabides
07-31-2009, 02:11 PM
Boston is an example of why I feel the excuse you can't draft well and have a big farm while winning is somewhat BS. Yes, you don't have the chance to draft in the top or the draft, but the Red Sox and to an extent the Yankees do a very good job of finding talent late in round 1, in the sandwhich rounds, and in round 2. The Redsox are also very smart in taking advantage of type A and B free agents

I don't like it with Money excuses, but Kenny is right when he says he cant make a trade with prospects he does not have.

Yes, but the red Sox and Yankees also have the money to pay over slot, which they have, and receive a lot of compensation picks when they let their high price free agents walk.

The Red Sox also spend more than anyone on scouting, and both teams spend wildly on international talent.

It's hard to compare the Sox, with the the New York and Boston clubs. Those teams can pay over their mistakes in so many ways.

russ99
07-31-2009, 02:15 PM
another option is that our biggest needs may not fillable at a price worth paying.

We had a heck of a draft this year. Why can't some of the players in the system ahead of those draftees be moved?

"Price worth paying" is relative. If Detroit can get Washburn with 2 lower-level arms and the Twins get O.C. for a Class A SS, Kenny can make a deal to help the club without giving up on our top prospects too.

Maybe all we have to look forward to is Freddy Garcia...

whitesoxfan
07-31-2009, 02:16 PM
Now the Twins are talking about going after Heath Bell.

What the hell, Kenny..

Domeshot17
07-31-2009, 02:19 PM
Yes, but the red Sox and Yankees also have the money to pay over slot, which they have, and receive a lot of compensation picks when they let their high price free agents walk.

The Red Sox also spend more than anyone on scouting, and both teams spend wildly on international talent.

It's hard to compare the Sox, with the the New York and Boston clubs. Those teams can pay over their mistakes in so many ways.

This has long been debated. Some do not like to throw money in the draft, Don't want to end up with another Borchard. I personally think I am in the middle. I know we can't spend the money they do, but I do not think its acceptable to be spending like the small market teams either. Different people have different opinions on this.

DirtySox
07-31-2009, 02:20 PM
We had a heck of a draft this year. Why can't some of the players in the system ahead of those draftees be moved?

"Price worth paying" is relative. If Detroit can get Washburn with 2 lower-level arms and the Twins get O.C. for a Class A SS, Kenny can make a deal to help the club without giving up on our top prospects too.

Maybe all we have to look forward to is Freddy Garcia...

I don't think we had a heck of a draft based on certain selections. Either way it's too early to classify it as good or bad.

kevingrt
07-31-2009, 02:24 PM
Now the Twins are talking about going after Heath Bell.

What the hell, Kenny..

What is he suppose to do about the Twinkies going after Bell? Call Padres GM and say no?

DirtySox
07-31-2009, 02:26 PM
I think I might be the only one happy if Kenny does nothing.

kevingrt
07-31-2009, 02:26 PM
I think I might be the only one happy if Kenny does nothing.

Nope. I'm in your club even if you don't like it.

DirtySox
07-31-2009, 02:29 PM
Nope. I'm in your club even if you don't like it.

The club does not discriminate and enjoys new members. Welcome aboard.

Thome25
07-31-2009, 02:29 PM
Nope. I'm in your club even if you don't like it.

You guys have fun in that club of yours. I want the Sox to go out and get some reinforcements in a very winnable division. At least the Twinks and Kitties recognize that this division can be had and are willing to try and reload for the next couple of months.

whitesoxfan
07-31-2009, 02:30 PM
The club does not discriminate and enjoys new members. Welcome aboard.

You have fun with that club and watch the Sox continue to play around .500 for the rest of the year.

soltrain21
07-31-2009, 02:32 PM
I'm glad we aren't doing anything because I don't think this team is good enough to win the division (okay, win the division maybe - but not good enough to be the upper echelon of the AL), but they aren't bad enough to trade everyone away and alienate a fan base.

That said - this is very un-Kenny like.

DirtySox
07-31-2009, 02:33 PM
I still think the division is winnable with the team we have. I wouldn't mind some minor tweaks, but I don't see any big splashes needed.

whitesoxfan
07-31-2009, 02:34 PM
I still think the division is winnable with the team we have. I wouldn't mind some minor tweaks, but I don't see any big splashes needed.

All I'm asking for is a couple of minor tweaks, most notably either backup OF or IF and/or another reliever. That's not too much to ask for, is it?

Domeshot17
07-31-2009, 02:35 PM
I don't see us taking the division with the 4th worst defense in baseball, Contreras and Richard being up and down in the rotation, the bullpen imploding every other game and the offense putting up about 3 runs a game.

We have a ton of glaring, HUGE holes, we have not addressed.

SCCWS
07-31-2009, 02:36 PM
I'm glad we aren't doing anything because I don't think this team is good enough to win the division (okay, win the division maybe - but not good enough to be the upper echelon of the AL), but they aren't bad enough to trade everyone away and alienate a fan base.

That said - this is very un-Kenny like.


Look at the trades made, no one is overpaying. It is certainly not a seller's market. Go back a week ago and look at the rumored prospects being mentioned. Dodgers,Phils, Twins and Tigers have all traded secondary prospects not their primary ones.

JC456
07-31-2009, 02:39 PM
What is he suppose to do about the Twinkies going after Bell? Call Padres GM and say no?

Good idea since Jerry Reinsdorf runs baseball.

thedudeabides
07-31-2009, 02:41 PM
This has long been debated. Some do not like to throw money in the draft, Don't want to end up with another Borchard. I personally think I am in the middle. I know we can't spend the money they do, but I do not think its acceptable to be spending like the small market teams either. Different people have different opinions on this.

Agreed, it's for another discussion, but it's just a different way of the rich getting richer.

The one place I wish the Sox would spend more is on scouting, especially international scouting.

TDog
07-31-2009, 02:43 PM
You guys have fun in that club of yours. I want the Sox to go out and get some reinforcements in a very winnable division. At least the Twinks and Kitties recognize that this division can be had and are willing to try and reload for the next couple of months.

They aren't trading veterans. Detroit gave up a rookie starting pitcher just above the level of prospect for Washburn. Most news organizations are calling French a prospect.

I don't know if the White Sox offered the A's Lillibridge for Cabrera, but I doubt that would have made WSI nation happy.

The White Sox shouldn't give up any veterans at the trade deadline. The aborted Peavy deal involved Richard, whose situation is similar to French's was with the Tigers. If the Sox have to cut deeper into their staff than Richard or have to give up regular position players, you're not filling holes. And you're not getting any better.

DirtySox
07-31-2009, 02:51 PM
Don't worry, the Fields for Pie trade is coming. I can feel it. :wink:

Whitesoxfan23
07-31-2009, 02:56 PM
The Tigers got Washburn earlier today. The Tigers just got quite a bit better. I am concerned.

Whitesoxfan23
07-31-2009, 03:00 PM
Deadline over.

mzh
07-31-2009, 03:01 PM
You never know, a trade could come out in an hour or so...

soltrain21
07-31-2009, 03:01 PM
**** it. Resign Albert Belle. Let's do this.

GoGoCrede
07-31-2009, 03:02 PM
You never know, a trade could come out in an hour or so...

Yeah. Didn't the Griffey one come out after deadline? I don't remember.

Red Barchetta
07-31-2009, 03:09 PM
We can win this division with the team we have. We just need to play better. We have played 30 games where the score was settled by only 1 run and we have only won 13 of those games. We might add by subtraction by moving Anderson and perhaps Fields as well.

WhiteSox5187
07-31-2009, 03:12 PM
We can win this division with the team we have. We just need to play better. We have played 30 games where the score was settled by only 1 run and we have only won 13 of those games. We might add by subtraction by moving Anderson and perhaps Fields as well.

Well, really that's the mantra for every team not in first place right now. The Pirates can still win the division if they play better, the question here is whether or not this team is capable of playing much better. I'm not so sure that they can, but at the same time I'm not sure that they can't either.

russ99
07-31-2009, 03:13 PM
We can win this division with the team we have. We just need to play better. We have played 30 games where the score was settled by only 1 run and we have only won 13 of those games.

Good point, but we're real thin in some areas so everything needs to go our way to win.

If one of the top 3 starters or power guys in the OF goes down for substantial time, we have nothing to make up for that.

soxfanreggie
07-31-2009, 03:16 PM
I guarantee you that someone from every team was working really hard today. Those that are in a race are looking to add, and those who aren't are looking to sell. You have to have two parties for a deal. Maybe we just didn't find anyone we wanted for the right price.

This team CAN win a division title, but we don't know if this team WILL win a division title. If we play like we have recently (sans Burls perfect game), I think we know the answer to that question. If we can shore some things up and get some good production this half from some guys, it is entirely possible.

The other thing to remember is that there still is a waiver wire. We get things back on the right track and we could see a pick up or two then.

russ99
07-31-2009, 03:20 PM
Well, at least Kenny didn't sell of Dye, Dotel, Pods and Thome. Could be worse...

WhiteSox5187
07-31-2009, 03:23 PM
Yeah, I know, I'm not looking at standings, when we were playing like **** early in the season and we were like 7 back and people said things like that I scoffed it off. We got Mark Kotsay this year. Twins got OC, Tigers got Washburn. They added, we stayed neutral.

This is a streaky team, there are times we look like a contender and other times we look awful. If we get hot at the right time we can easily win the division.

soxfanreggie
07-31-2009, 03:23 PM
Did he mean the Red Sox? That site is banned at work, so I guess I'll have to check when I get home.