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Domeshot17
07-29-2009, 02:24 AM
http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/07/fields_now_wants_out.html

We really screwed the pooch on this one. Keeping Wise over Fields. Say what you want about BA and the Red Sox, but if Fields went somewhere and hit 30 homers and drove in 95 runs next year, it would not be a huge shock, and we would have sent it packing to keep Wise.

GoGoCrede
07-29-2009, 02:25 AM
Another one bites the dust. At least both he and BA were civil about it. That's classy. I wonder what KW will get for him.

soxnut1018
07-29-2009, 02:27 AM
http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/07/fields_now_wants_out.html

We really screwed the pooch on this one. Keeping Wise over Fields. Say what you want about BA and the Red Sox, but if Fields went somewhere and hit 30 homers and drove in 95 runs next year, it would not be a huge shock, and we would have sent it packing to keep Wise.

Yes it would. Where is Fields going to play? Beckham is a far superior player at third and I think Getz> Fields. Hopefully we can get something useful for him.

chisoxfanatic
07-29-2009, 02:27 AM
Both BA and Fields had reason to be pissed. They were both sent down in favor of a lesser player.

oeo
07-29-2009, 02:31 AM
http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/07/fields_now_wants_out.html

We really screwed the pooch on this one. Keeping Wise over Fields. Say what you want about BA and the Red Sox, but if Fields went somewhere and hit 30 homers and drove in 95 runs next year, it would not be a huge shock, and we would have sent it packing to keep Wise.

We're in a tough spot with Fields. I'd hate to deal him right now, when his value is low and the potential is still there. However, there's no where for him to play right now, and he hasn't shown enough to give him first base next year (assuming Konerko would move to DH).

Mohoney
07-29-2009, 02:35 AM
We're in a tough spot with Fields. I'd hate to deal him right now, when his value is low and the potential is still there. However, there's no where for him to play right now, and he hasn't shown enough to give him first base next year (assuming Konerko would move to DH).
It's a good point you make about selling low on Fields, although I think it's going to happen in the next few days anyway. However, I think it would be wasting money moving Konerko to DH when you can still get quality defense at 1B out of him.

Konerko05
07-29-2009, 02:36 AM
As much as I've badmouthed Fields over the past couple years, his talent and production absolutely dwarf Dewayne Wise's.

Fields better be requesting a trade. The day your manager chooses Dewayne Wise over you, it becomes obvious you have serve no purpose in the White Sox organization. How would you like to play the prime of your career in the minors behind Dewayne Wise's .185 batting average?

Fields + BA > Kotsay + Wise.

doublem23
07-29-2009, 02:36 AM
Go **** yourself, Josh.

At least BA has 1 skill that another team might find useful. The only thing Fields brings to the table is a lowered OBP and F%.

oeo
07-29-2009, 02:37 AM
It's a good point you make about selling low on Fields, although I think it's going to happen in the next few days anyway. However, I think it would be wasting money moving Konerko to DH when you can still get quality defense at 1B out of him.

We get little range out of Konerko at first base. He'll make the plays he can get to, but he's not anything special.

Domeshot17
07-29-2009, 02:37 AM
We're in a tough spot with Fields. I'd hate to deal him right now, when his value is low and the potential is still there. However, there's no where for him to play right now, and he hasn't shown enough to give him first base next year (assuming Konerko would move to DH).

It would never happen with Ozzie.

The reason this whole thing bothers me is many fold. Add to the fact Mcculloch was just relegated to pen duties in the minors, and this is 4 years worth of blown first rounders gone in 3 months (Brian for nothing, Broadway for Castro, Fields for what, Felix Pie, and Mcculloch just sucks). Also, Beckham is the only kid to succeed under Ozzie. I don't know if that is his raw ability or what, but Ozzie continues to be unable to take kids to the next level. I mean ****, we are praising Getz for being this great break out 2b, and his OPS is under .700. I don't know how much of that is on him [ozzie], but this appears to be a problem. Finally, we have become the Denver Broncos. You do not hear many other teams prospects demanding trades when they struggle in the show. The fact ours are leads to believe there is some kind of rift with the prospects and management.

doublem23
07-29-2009, 02:39 AM
We get little range out of Konerko at first base. He'll make the plays he can get to, but he's not anything special.

Range at 1B is highly overrated, Konerko excels at what is truly important for a 1B defensively, he can pick almost anything out of the dirt that's within an arm's reach of the bag.

Konerko is an excellent defensive 1B and in a fair world, would be in serious discussion to add a Gold Glove to his mantle.

Mohoney
07-29-2009, 02:43 AM
It would never happen with Ozzie.

The reason this whole thing bothers me is many fold. Add to the fact Mcculloch was just relegated to pen duties in the minors, and this is 4 years worth of blown first rounders gone in 3 months (Brian for nothing, Broadway for Castro, Fields for what, Felix Pie, and Mcculloch just sucks). Also, Beckham is the only kid to succeed under Ozzie. I don't know if that is his raw ability or what, but Ozzie continues to be unable to take kids to the next level. I mean ****, we are praising Getz for being this great break out 2b, and his OPS is under .700. I don't know how much of that is on him [ozzie], but this appears to be a problem. Finally, we have become the Denver Broncos. You do not hear many other teams prospects demanding trades when they struggle in the show. The fact ours are leads to believe there is some kind of rift with the prospects and management.

I'm not ready to blame Ozzie for Anderson or Fields not being able to hit major league pitching. They're both strikeout machines.

This is one of the prices you pay for not having many losing seasons. You're always drafting low 1st round talent. The one decent 1st rounder we were able to get was the product of a terrible season, and I'm hoping that we don't get another pick that high for quite some time.

doublem23
07-29-2009, 02:43 AM
It would never happen with Ozzie.

The reason this whole thing bothers me is many fold. Add to the fact Mcculloch was just relegated to pen duties in the minors, and this is 4 years worth of blown first rounders gone in 3 months (Brian for nothing, Broadway for Castro, Fields for what, Felix Pie, and Mcculloch just sucks). Also, Beckham is the only kid to succeed under Ozzie. I don't know if that is his raw ability or what, but Ozzie continues to be unable to take kids to the next level. I mean ****, we are praising Getz for being this great break out 2b, and his OPS is under .700. I don't know how much of that is on him [ozzie], but this appears to be a problem. Finally, we have become the Denver Broncos. You do not hear many other teams prospects demanding trades when they struggle in the show. The fact ours are leads to believe there is some kind of rift with the prospects and management.

Couldn't this just be that the Sox were taking ****ty players in the 1st round? Save for Beckham, the Sox haven't had a productive 1st rounder since when, 1991? The Sox's scouting and player development have frankly, been terrible for the better part of the last 20 years. Luckily it looks like Bacon is just too good to screw up, no matter how hard they try, but they've pretty much done a number on every solid prospect in the farm system for years now.

oeo
07-29-2009, 02:43 AM
It would never happen with Ozzie.

What would never happen with Ozzie?

The reason this whole thing bothers me is many fold. Add to the fact Mcculloch was just relegated to pen duties in the minors, and this is 4 years worth of blown first rounders gone in 3 months (Brian for nothing, Broadway for Castro, Fields for what, Felix Pie, and Mcculloch just sucks). Also, Beckham is the only kid to succeed under Ozzie. I don't know if that is his raw ability or what, but Ozzie continues to be unable to take kids to the next level. I mean ****, we are praising Getz for being this great break out 2b, and his OPS is under .700. I don't know how much of that is on him [ozzie], but this appears to be a problem. Finally, we have become the Denver Broncos. You do not hear many other teams prospects demanding trades when they struggle in the show. The fact ours are leads to believe there is some kind of rift with the prospects and management.

What's done is done. I'm not going to worry about first round picks from five or six years ago. Let's make sure that's fixed now, and were drafting the right guys, as well as developing them the right way.

I don't see how the blame can go on Ozzie, please explain. Anderson can't recognize a breaking ball, and Fields can't catch up to the fastball. That's Ozzie's fault?

And Anderson and Fields did not 'demand' trades. You actually have to be worth something to demand a trade. Anderson requested one, while it appears KW and Fields had a good talk about which way the organization is headed. Apparently Kenny said a different direction, which is why Fields would like to move on. And good luck to him if he is dealt. I still think he's a 25-30 homerun man with the right hitting coach.

captainclutch24
07-29-2009, 03:56 AM
I don't blame him and hopefully he gets to play somewhere. It is no suprise that he wanted to leave as I would too in his situation. Good luck where ever you wind up because the Sox do not like to give most of their young guys chances

Chicken Dinner
07-29-2009, 04:13 AM
Still don't understand all the Ozzie Wise love.

soulfly
07-29-2009, 05:40 AM
F*** Ozzie and his love for Wise.

parlaycard
07-29-2009, 06:24 AM
Fields career with the Sox was ruined when the Sox sent him down last year after hitting 26 home runs in basically half a season.

His only chance is with another team. He was rightfully pissed.

Unfortunately that affected his game.

But he had the opportunity to turn it around and he didnt.

DumpJerry
07-29-2009, 07:39 AM
Another one bites the dust. At least both he and BA were civil about it. That's classy. I wonder what KW will get for him.
A player named Macy?

WhiteSox1989
07-29-2009, 07:43 AM
Well, good for him. But once again I Fields was advertised as having all of this ability-after all he worked with ~Cora~, however I was disappointed.

..I seem to get that feeling a lot with this team though..

spawn
07-29-2009, 08:10 AM
F*** Ozzie and his love for Wise.

Still don't understand all the Ozzie Wise love.
:rolling:

So now it's Dewayne Wise's fault that Fields was sent down? Let me see if I understand things here:

- With Beckham improving defensively at 3rd base, along with being a much better offensive player, Fields loses playing time there.

- Konerko is an above average defensive 1B, along with being pretty solid offensively, so Fields loses playing time there.

- Mark Kotsay is brought in to be the backup !B and pinch-hitter.

- For all of Dewayne Wise's faults (and there are many), he is now the only legitimate backup CF'er on the roster.

- If my math is correct, Fields isn't going to see much playing time because he's been pretty bad defensively and can't hit a fastball to save his life.

Add it all up, and it's Dewayne Wise's fault that Fields is optioned back to the minors? Incredible. :rolling:

Jjav829
07-29-2009, 08:54 AM
I don't understand all the hand-wringing over Fields being sent down. He needs to be sent down. What the hell is sitting on the bench and playing once a week doing for him? He isn't getting any actual game time to work on his defense. He isn't getting enough at-bats to fix his swing.

He needs to go down and play everyday. He has about 20 plate appearances this month. And one hit. There's no room for him to start everyday. The positions he can play are filled by much better players. He should go down for a month, get some playing time everyday and try to become a better player.

hi im skot
07-29-2009, 09:00 AM
A swing and a miss for Fields.

asindc
07-29-2009, 09:07 AM
For those who think Fields should have been kept ahead of Wise, please answer these questions:

1) Do you think Fields can back up any of the OF positions?

2) Do you think the Sox can get by with Kotsay as the backup CF?

3) Do you think Fields should get more playing time than he has been getting? If so, based on what?

For the record, I think Wise on his best days is no better than a slightly below average player, but since he is the only player on the team that can backup CF and the other OF positions, he gets to keep his job with the major league team... for now.

Oh by the way, your response should not include any reference to any players who are not in the Sox organization as of this writing.

Over By There
07-29-2009, 09:08 AM
I've made comments in the past to the same effect, but... I swear some at WSI would prefer that the Sox be a losing team with a lineup including All Stars like BA, Fields and Jeremy Reed rather than win more games with competent major league talent. I have no ill-feelings toward Fields, but I have no sympathy, either. He, like BA, has had chances to win a job with the White Sox, and he hasn't done it. The best place for him right now is to play every day in Charlotte or be traded somewhere where he can play. Oh, gee, that's exactly what's happening.

skobabe8
07-29-2009, 09:17 AM
Why is Wise mentioned at all in this thread? Can Fields play CF?

balke
07-29-2009, 09:19 AM
I can't see how giving in to every trade demand by a young player is going to work in the Sox' favor.

Josh needs to chill out, Kotsay will likely be injured in a month.

cws05champ
07-29-2009, 09:26 AM
Go **** yourself, Josh.

At least BA has 1 skill that another team might find useful. The only thing Fields brings to the table is a lowered OBP and F%.

How can anybody be pissed at Josh? It's clear the Sox don't have a place for him, so he wants to go somewhere else where he may have a big league opportunity. He is looking out for himself and family and trying to give him the best situation personally. I would want the same thing..a chance in the bigs vs playing in AAA.

I don't want to sell low on him either, but does anyone see an opportunity in the near future where his stock will increase without any playing time at the big league level?

spawn
07-29-2009, 09:32 AM
Why is Wise mentioned at all in this thread? Can Fields play CF?
Because everything that goes wrong with the Sox is Dewayne Wise's fault. Haven't you been paying attention? :cool:

I don't want to sell low on him either, but does anyone see an opportunity in the near future where his stock will increase without any playing time at the big league level?
It's not going to rise with him sitting on the bench, which is exactly what he has been doing and what he would continue to do if he stayed here.

colles9
07-29-2009, 09:37 AM
I don't blame him and hopefully he gets to play somewhere. It is no suprise that he wanted to leave as I would too in his situation. Good luck where ever you wind up because the Sox do not like to give most of their young guys chances

Was this suppose to be teal??? Sox dont give most of their young guys a chance?? Um Beckham? Getz? Richard? Poreda? Fields? Anderson? Borchard? I am a little confused as to how there was no chance given to young players. IIRC all of these players were or are being given a chance and last I knew at the time they were given their chances they were all young.

spawn
07-29-2009, 09:53 AM
Good luck where ever you wind up because the Sox do not like to give most of their young guys chances
This is about as ridiculous a statement as I've seen in this thread., seeing as Carlos Quentin, Gordon Beckham, and Chris Getz are being given a chance. Same as Gavin Floyd and John Danks. Ozzie has stuck with Clayton Richard as a starter even though most on this board beileve he should be pitching out of the bullpen. So I guess it's the Sox organization that's to blame when young players that are given a chance blow it? :scratch:

asindc
07-29-2009, 09:57 AM
This is about as ridiculous a statement as iIve seen in this thread., seeing as Carlos Quentin, Gordon Beckham, and Chris Getz are being given a chance. Same as Gavin Floyd and John Danks. Ozzie has stuck with Clayton Richard as a starter even though most on this board beileve he should be pitching out of the bullpen. So I guess it's the Sox organization that's to blame when young players that are given a chance blow it? :scratch:

You can add to that list among the current roster Mark Buehrle and Bobby Jenks as players who were given a chance early in their careers to secure a job with the major league club.

kevingrt
07-29-2009, 10:03 AM
You can add to that list among the current roster Mark Buehrle and Bobby Jenks as players who were given a chance early in their careers to secure a job with the major league club.

Add Joe Crede, Aaron Rowand, El Caballo, etc.

Dibbs
07-29-2009, 10:06 AM
I think it's safe to say Kenny is in no danger of winning executive of the year this year.

hi im skot
07-29-2009, 10:11 AM
How can anybody be pissed at Josh?

Dude was handed the third base job and failed miserably. The Sox were forced to call up a guy with what, 60 career minor league games under his belt?

Granted, Beckham has been one of the biggest bright spots of 2009, but it was a move out of desperation.

Fields is a good guy, no doubt, but he just hasn't gotten it done

kittle42
07-29-2009, 10:16 AM
I think it's safe to say Kenny is in no danger of winning executive of the year this year.

I couldn't agree more, but it certainly has nothing to do with Josh Fields or Brian Anderson.

Dibbs
07-29-2009, 10:20 AM
I couldn't agree more, but it certainly has nothing to do with Josh Fields or Brian Anderson.

It has something to do with choosing Dwayne Wise over superior players though. It is an auto-disqualification.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-29-2009, 10:20 AM
I would not trade Fields. Not that I like him; I don't. He is a K machine who can't field.

But he needs to be sent down to play every day to improve. Moving him to another organization is just allowing him some fantasy that that would change everything: All of a sudden, because he's on a new team, he can field, hit a fastball, consistently make contact, etc. It won't.

The best thing for Fields is to put him in Charlotte and make him work his ass off to get better. This has nothing to do with KW, or Ozzie, or anyone else. It is all on Fields himself.

asindc
07-29-2009, 10:23 AM
It has something to do with choosing Dwayne Wise over superior players though. It is an auto-disqualification.

Please see this post:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2305428&postcount=24

The Immigrant
07-29-2009, 10:23 AM
What a trainwreck this season is turning into.

TSXNaVi
07-29-2009, 10:28 AM
Fields + BA > Kotsay + Wise.

Fields + BA = Kotsay + Wise = Not winning anything but maybe a crappy AL Central

Red Barchetta
07-29-2009, 10:30 AM
All of these trade requests (demands) lead me to believe of a clubhouse issue that is perhaps the reason this team is still floating around .500. I think Wise has pics of Ozzie or KW :D:, but it's possible due to him being out of options and getting his one last chance to succeed with the organization.

Fields was the heir apparent to Crede and did not take advantage of it. Same for Anderson being the heir apparent to Rowand.

I really think the issue is that Ozzie does not like whining of any kind. Look what happened with Swisher last season. I remember a sound byte from Ozzie last season referencing if you want to act like a superstar, you better have superstar stats.

KenBerryGrab
07-29-2009, 10:33 AM
Anderson got his chance. He stunk.

Fields got his chance. He stunk.

This is Ozzie's fault?

Soxfest
07-29-2009, 10:39 AM
Sox sure are trading previous so called first round picks for nothing shows how pathectic they were in talent evaluation!

ode to veeck
07-29-2009, 10:40 AM
What a trainwreck this season is turning into.


What the heck does that have to do with Fields getting sent down or wanting a trade!? other than your entire hopes fo the '09 Sox were based on Josh's success?

Josh hasn't shown an ability to play consistently anywhere in the field other than 1st base, nor do anything at all worth mentioning at the plate in recent memory. So he's a young 1/2 a tool guy (at best) at this point, with better backups on the bench for anything he could conceivably be used for. He is overdue for being sent down, not "the season is a trainwreck".

spawn
07-29-2009, 10:42 AM
Sox sure are trading previous so called first round picks for nothing shows how pathectic they were in talent evaluation!
Well, Fields hasn't been traded yet. At any rate, I'd rather them trade away failures than keeping them just to try to prove they aren't failures.

PhillipsBubba
07-29-2009, 10:44 AM
Another one bites the dust. At least both he and BA were civil about it. That's classy. I wonder what KW will get for him.

Probably another broken down veteran that nobody wants...but to listen to KW and Hawk we found the answer to our problems with Kotsay...how dumb do they think we are...we aren't Flub fans!!!!!!!!:mad:

Tragg
07-29-2009, 10:59 AM
http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/07/fields_now_wants_out.html

We really screwed the pooch on this one. Keeping Wise over Fields. .
Ozzie thinks DeWayne Wise is "tremendous" and a leadoff hitter. That is why he was kept.

Of course Ozzie also thought he had a great offensive team in 2007, centered around ERstad, his .400 hitter.


Wise shouldn't be on the 40 man. And Williams gave him a ML contract.
This will probably be another Williams give-away job.

WhiteSoxFTW
07-29-2009, 11:02 AM
All of these trade requests (demands) lead me to believe of a clubhouse issue that is perhaps the reason this team is still floating around .500. I think Wise has pics of Ozzie or KW :D:, but it's possible due to him being out of options and getting his one last chance to succeed with the organization.

Fields was the heir apparent to Crede and did not take advantage of it. Same for Anderson being the heir apparent to Rowand.

I really think the issue is that Ozzie does not like whining of any kind. Look what happened with Swisher last season. I remember a sound byte from Ozzie last season referencing if you want to act like a superstar, you better have superstar stats.

From what we have seen with Ozzie thus far, I think that is very true. I think that is one of his pet peeves. Add that to players calling each other out and mental errors in the field.

TomBradley72
07-29-2009, 11:03 AM
He's a 26 y.o., .228 career hitter after 638 ABs and he's strikes out at a rate of ~150/500 ABs, + defensively, he's mediocre at 3rd base and primarily a DH/1st Baseman type.

Hard to see where he fits in with any team who is a contender. Like BA, maybe he gets regular playing time with teams like the Nats/Pirates, etc., but not a team going for the post season.

The Immigrant
07-29-2009, 11:06 AM
He's a 26 y.o., .228 career hitter after 638 ABs and he's strikes out at a rate of ~150/500 ABs, + defensively, he's mediocre at 3rd base and primarily a DH/1st Baseman type.

Hard to see where he fits in with any team who is a contender. Like BA, maybe he gets regular playing time with teams like the Nats/Pirates, etc., but not a team going for the post season.

I can't think of another team in baseball that would give a roster spot to Wise, and yet he is starting ballgames for a team that supposedly is "going for the post season."

ode to veeck
07-29-2009, 11:09 AM
I can't think of another team in baseball that would give a roster spot to Wise, and yet he is starting ballgames for a team that supposedly is "going for the post season."

This is the Fields thread. What does Dewayne have to do with this discussion as there's no way Fields is backup anything in the OF and we certainly don't need a 3rd 1st baseman with Kotsay here.

voodoochile
07-29-2009, 11:12 AM
Fields + BA = Kotsay + Wise = Not winning anything but maybe a crappy AL Central

Yes yes... by all means, lets keep ripping on the Sox for only being good enough to win their division while turning over several key positions and developing young talent for future years.

It so sucks to be us fans... sniff... forced to watch a team in a pennant race for the 4th time in 5 years. Oh the humanity to be forced to sit through meaningful games in August and September and into October. I hate it. I hate KW. I hate OG. I hate them all for forcing this on me. What will I do... sniff.. WHAT WILL I DO?!???!!!


:?:



:rolleyes:


:dtroll:

The Immigrant
07-29-2009, 11:14 AM
What the heck does that have to do with Fields getting sent down or wanting a trade!? other than your entire hopes fo the '09 Sox were based on Josh's success?

This was supposed to be a transitional year in which the young players are given a chance to earn their stripes. That was evident from the makeup of the opening day roster and the lack of offseason moves. The organization let Crede walk without offering arbitration because they thought Fields was ready to take over at 3B. We did not attempt to sign a CF in the offseason, instead giving BA another chance to earn the job. Both BA and Fields failed. If they failed because they never had the talent to succeed, then management should be taken to task for going into this season expecting those two to contribute. If they failed because the organization could not help them realize the talent that made them first round picks, then the failure is even more disconcerting.

voodoochile
07-29-2009, 11:14 AM
Probably another broken down veteran that nobody wants...but to listen to KW and Hawk we found the answer to our problems with Kotsay...how dumb do they think we are...we aren't Flub fans!!!!!!!!:mad:

You can be if you want to. No problem. Go for it dude...

Tragg
07-29-2009, 11:14 AM
He's a 26 y.o., .228 career hitter after 638 ABs and he's strikes out at a rate of ~150/500 ABs, + defensively, he's mediocre at 3rd base and primarily a DH/1st Baseman type.
One thing he has is power. There's something to build on, to work with.
He and/Anderson would be ideal for a "my stunted prospect for your stunted-prospect" trade, like we did with Borchard/Thornton.

But when the Sox tell the world that these players are below the hapless but Ozzie fav DeWayne Wise (.208 career BA; .250 career obp - it could go to .150 and Ozzie wouldn't give a ****), that simply devalues players (as well as hurts the team as the better player is not on the team).

I'll be surprised if this is anything other than a giveaway job.

voodoochile
07-29-2009, 11:17 AM
This was supposed to be a transitional year in which the young players are given a chance to earn their stripes. That was evident from the makeup of the opening day roster and the lack of offseason moves. The organization let Crede walk without offering arbitration because they thought Fields was ready to take over at 3B. We did not attempt to sign a CF in the offseason, instead giving BA another chance to earn the job. Both BA and Fields failed. If they failed because they never had the talent to succeed, then management should be taken to task for going into this season expecting those two to contribute. If they failed because the organization could not help them realize the talent that made them first round picks, then the failure is even more disconcerting.

In fairness, KW had several backup plans in place and then kept looking. By June they had called up Beckham and handed an OF slot to Pods to be the leadoff hitter too.

If you are going to rip on KW for starting the season with players who were underqualified then how about giving some credit for fixing most of those problems either internally or by going out and getting players who could do the job?

spawn
07-29-2009, 11:19 AM
What a trainwreck this season is turning into.
The Cleveland Indians season is a trainwreck.
The Washington Nationals season is a trainwreck.
The Oakland A's season is a trainwreck.
The Pittsburgh Pirates season is a trainwreck.

The Sox, even though they've played some ****ty baseball the last two nights in giving games to the Twins, are still only 2 games off the division lead. This season is a far cry from being a trainwreck.

TSXNaVi
07-29-2009, 11:20 AM
Yes yes... by all means, lets keep ripping on the Sox for only being good enough to win their division while turning over several key positions and developing young talent for future years.

It so sucks to be us fans... sniff... forced to watch a team in a pennant race for the 4th time in 5 years. Oh the humanity to be forced to sit through meaningful games in August and September and into October. I hate it. I hate KW. I hate OG. I hate them all for forcing this on me. What will I do... sniff.. WHAT WILL I DO?!???!!!


:?:



:rolleyes:


:dtroll:

I guess it is an overaction for bench players the last part.

I am just so so so so so so so sick of hearing that BA and Fields are all-stars.

Dibbs
07-29-2009, 11:21 AM
Based on all the comments, I honestly have a feeling nobody on this board (or Kenny) has an idea who Mark Kotsay is. This is really the first year has even played first base. He is an old broken down outfielder, not an infielder.

voodoochile
07-29-2009, 11:21 AM
The Cleveland indians season is a trainwreck.
The Washington Nationals season is a trainwreck.
The Oakland A's season is a trainwreck.
The Pittsburgh Pirates season is a trainwreck.

THe Sox, even though they've played some ****ty baseball the last two nights in giving games to the Twins, are still only 2 games off the division lead. This season is a far cry from being a trainwreck.

Don't you get it? If the Sox aren't good enough to go 173-0 on April 1st the season sucks.

Being in the hunt for a division title at the end of July isn't good enough. It's a trainwreck, a disaster, a blight on the soul of the franchise and an affront to Sox fans everywhere.

voodoochile
07-29-2009, 11:23 AM
I guess it is an overaction for bench players the last part.

I am just so so so so so so so sick of hearing that BA and Fields are all-stars.

I think it's more that the posters actually believe they can do a better job than KW and OG which I find simply hilarious.

Poking the FOBA and the FOF (who knew there were FOF's?) is always good for a laugh...

ode to veeck
07-29-2009, 11:23 AM
One thing he has is power. There's something to build on, to work with.
He and/Anderson would be ideal for a "my stunted prospect for your stunted-prospect" trade, like we did with Borchard/Thornton.



We got better than a stunted prospect in Kotsay. The guy is a proven hitter and multi position fielder and decent on the basepaths as well, as long as he's healthy (the gamble in it)

Now if we can get at least a stunted prospect or a maligned verteren for Fields (who I didn't think had much prospect even before the season started), then we're doin' something.

Sure I like to see #1 picks succeed, but not all do when it comes down to it for more reasons than worth renumerating, and even much less so than other major sports, so I don't get all the whining about it. We've got one #1 pick making the strongest case right now for rookie of the year, so I'm elated, not complaining.

asindc
07-29-2009, 11:24 AM
This was supposed to be a transitional year in which the young players are given a chance to earn their stripes. That was evident from the makeup of the opening day roster and the lack of offseason moves. The organization let Crede walk without offering arbitration because they thought Fields was ready to take over at 3B. We did not attempt to sign a CF in the offseason, instead giving BA another chance to earn the job. Both BA and Fields failed. If they failed because they never had the talent to succeed, then management should be taken to task for going into this season expecting those two to contribute. If they failed because the organization could not help them realize the talent that made them first round picks, then the failure is even more disconcerting.

How do you know that Sox management did not attempt to sign a CF in the offseason?

ode to veeck
07-29-2009, 11:30 AM
The Cleveland Indians season is a trainwreck.
The Washington Nationals season is a trainwreck.
The Oakland A's season is a trainwreck.
The Pittsburgh Pirates season is a trainwreck.

The Sox, even though they've played some ****ty baseball the last two nights in giving games to the Twins, are still only 2 games off the division lead. This season is a far cry from being a trainwreck.

dont forget the giants, who at 10 games above 500 are light years behind the dodgers and now that their HOF pitcher went down with rotater cuff, now their season is a trainwreck too. lol

TomBradley72
07-29-2009, 11:50 AM
One thing he has is power. There's something to build on, to work with.
He and/Anderson would be ideal for a "my stunted prospect for your stunted-prospect" trade, like we did with Borchard/Thornton.

But when the Sox tell the world that these players are below the hapless but Ozzie fav DeWayne Wise (.208 career BA; .250 career obp - it could go to .150 and Ozzie wouldn't give a ****), that simply devalues players (as well as hurts the team as the better player is not on the team).

I'll be surprised if this is anything other than a giveaway job.

Fields has established his value (or lack of it) through his performance. Kotsay is a the reason he's expendable, not the 4th OF.

kittle42
07-29-2009, 11:56 AM
Fields has established his value (or lack of it) through his performance. Kotsay is a the reason he's expendable, not the 4th OF.

Don't try to be reasonable. It is not OK to "hate" Anderson or Fields...but it is perfectly fine to despise Wise and now, apparently, Kotsay.

hawkjt
07-29-2009, 11:59 AM
I agree that Fields and BA got their chances and proved they just could not cut it as starters.
I do not see Fields fetching much,so would prefer he work on his giant swing in the minors,and come back up in a month.

All the bullcrap about Ozzie and kenny being unfair is ridiculous..one thing about baseball, every player is exposed for what he is eventually.
As for Fields being sent down...no brainer. It was the only choice that made any sense.
Wish Wise would get a hit occasionally tho.

SoxSpeed22
07-29-2009, 12:15 PM
This is probably best for both parties. Fields had his chance in 2007. When Crede went down again in 2008, Ozzie felt he would have been better off with Uribe at 3rd. Fields couldn't get it done with the glove or the bat. I'm not sure what you can get for a guy who has more strikeouts than hits, and doesn't have a true position. It will probably end up being another failed prospect.

southside rocks
07-29-2009, 12:31 PM
I think it's more that the posters actually believe they can do a better job than KW and OG which I find simply hilarious.



Completely agree.

And let's say, with a generous estimate, that maybe 2% of what ACTUALLY goes on, on a team during the season -- all the relationships, what's said and done, what's not done -- is known to members of the general public (that is, internet posters): I find it hysterically funny that anyone with that 2% of the total picture could even think they're on the same playing field with the team manager and/or GM who have 100% of the total picture.

But hey, Ozzie hates Anderson and Fields and KW is in love with DeWayne Wise, that's a realistic assessment of the situation and there's nothing more to it!

doublem23
07-29-2009, 12:40 PM
How can anybody be pissed at Josh? It's clear the Sox don't have a place for him, so he wants to go somewhere else where he may have a big league opportunity. He is looking out for himself and family and trying to give him the best situation personally. I would want the same thing..a chance in the bigs vs playing in AAA.

I don't want to sell low on him either, but does anyone see an opportunity in the near future where his stock will increase without any playing time at the big league level?

The Sox did have a place for him, he was the Opening Day 3B. They handed Josh the keys and he completely fell flat on his face. A waste of a 1st round pick, not because he's apparently on his way out, but because he was even drafted in the first place.

thedudeabides
07-29-2009, 12:43 PM
I'm still blown away at how many people on this board don't know the difference between Kenny and Ozzie's jobs.

I also can't believe how much reaction the trading of Anderson, and the request by Fields have created.

I haven't seen anyone stick up for Fields since spring training. I was one of them. At the time, it sounded like he was working hard on his defense and I thought he deserved the chance to show he improved. He got the chance and he didn't improve defensively, and the league became aware of him not being able to hit even an average fastball at the big league level.

If he gets traded, it won't be for much, and I'm sure this board will be up in arms. Any other team that would be interested in him knows his scouting report, and they know his flaws. Josh and Brian are now 27 year old failed former number one picks. The truth is most number one picks fail. And most have never gotten the amount of opportunities Josh and Brian have recieved.

Kenny had to cut cost this offseason, so he went with some of the aging prospects in our system, to once and for all find out if they are everyday major league players, and they couldn't capitalize. I don't see any reason to keep them around. It's hard for Josh to be a bench player when he is so limited defensively, and strikes out at such a high rate.

I just hope a team likes his power potential and is willing to part with something.

southside rocks
07-29-2009, 12:43 PM
The Sox did have a place for him, he was the Opening Day 3B. They handed Josh the keys and he completely fell flat on his face. A waste of a 1st round pick, not because he's apparently on his way out, but because he was even drafted in the first place.

"They throw ungodly breaking stuff in The Show. Exploding sliders ..."

TDog
07-29-2009, 12:48 PM
...

The reason this whole thing bothers me is many fold. Add to the fact Mcculloch was just relegated to pen duties in the minors, and this is 4 years worth of blown first rounders gone in 3 months (Brian for nothing, Broadway for Castro, Fields for what, Felix Pie, and Mcculloch just sucks). Also, Beckham is the only kid to succeed under Ozzie. I don't know if that is his raw ability or what, but Ozzie continues to be unable to take kids to the next level. I mean ****, we are praising Getz for being this great break out 2b, and his OPS is under .700. I don't know how much of that is on him [ozzie], but this appears to be a problem. Finally, we have become the Denver Broncos. You do not hear many other teams prospects demanding trades when they struggle in the show. The fact ours are leads to believe there is some kind of rift with the prospects and management.

Anderson asked to be traded out of frustration, but the White Sox sent him down and traded him out of frustration of their own. Anderson seemed to have so much potential when he was drafted. He never worked to improve his hitter hen he was with the White Sox organization.

Fields had some offensive success in his rookie year, but his high strikeout rate was a clue that pitchers would adjust to him and give him problems in the future. His inability to play third base has held the White Sox back (although forcing them to bring up Beckham a bit early has helped the team).

Fields never was the sort of hitter who would be in the lineup in spite of his defense. He never was the sort of hitter who you would want as your regular DH -- although there were WSI posters who proposed Fields as the regular DH after the 2007 season.

That he was a first-round draft pick is irrelevant. The White Sox have a bunch of first-round draft picks on the team. Anderson, a former first-round draft pick, was traded for a former first-round draft pick of the Marlins. The White Sox have two first-round draft picks in their starting rotation, although the Sports Illustrated cover features a 38th-round pick. If you want to get technical, Danks and Floyd are first-round picks who achieved their first major league success under Guillen. The White Sox have a first-round pick playing first and a first-round pick playing third and neither had big-league success until they came to the White Sox, although Konerko first flourished under Manuel.

Quentin was a first-round pick who had his first major-league success under Guillen. Pierzynski and Podsednik were third -round picks and Getz was a fourth-round pick. Thome was only a 13th-round pick and Dye was a 17th-round pick, so you shouldn't have expected anything from them.

Fields is no longer one of the best prospects on the White Sox. His draft rank is irrelevant.

slavko
07-29-2009, 12:49 PM
I can't think of another team in baseball that would give a roster spot to Wise, and yet he is starting ballgames for a team that supposedly is "going for the post season."

Well, Fields hasn't been traded yet. At any rate, I'd rather them trade away failures than keeping them just to try to prove they aren't failures.

By any reasonable standard Wise is a failure and he's still here.

JB98
07-29-2009, 01:07 PM
Even if Fields' bat one day comes around, which I doubt, he can't play his position. I don't think the Sox are any worse off without him.

He's a square peg in a round hole. He's not part of the future plans. We already have enough options at DH, and all of those options are better than Josh.

He has no right to be pissed. Good riddance.

gobears1987
07-29-2009, 01:22 PM
Fields had his chances. 3rd base was his in 2008 and he lost it with a piss poor spring. It was all his this year with no competition and he lost it with two months of ****ty play where he could neither hit nor field a ball. Beckham took one week of adjustment and took off like a rocket. He already fields the position better than Josh, and this is a position he's been playing for all of two months. Josh has played that position his entire life. That is pretty sad.

chisox12
07-29-2009, 01:25 PM
Fields had his chances. 3rd base was his in 2008 and he lost it with a piss poor spring. It was all his this year with no competition and he lost it with two months of ****ty play where he could neither hit nor field a ball. Beckham took one week of adjustment and took off like a rocket. He already fields the position better than Josh, and this is a position he's been playing for all of two months. Josh has played that position his entire life. That is pretty sad.

It's hard to believe that both of them were first round picks too. It took Beckham a couple weeks to adjust to 3B and Fields has struggled playing 3B ever since he was drafted.

Dibbs
07-29-2009, 01:34 PM
Fields had his chances. 3rd base was his in 2008 and he lost it with a piss poor spring. It was all his this year with no competition and he lost it with two months of ****ty play where he could neither hit nor field a ball. Beckham took one week of adjustment and took off like a rocket. He already fields the position better than Josh, and this is a position he's been playing for all of two months. Josh has played that position his entire life. That is pretty sad.


Well, Fields was definitely not given the chance in 2008, as Crede was at 3rd. He had a really great start to his career in 2007, and the Sox messed with him like they do many other prospects. Josh should have gotten the job in 2008, and Crede should have been gone.

TDog
07-29-2009, 01:39 PM
Well, Fields was definitely not given the chance in 2008, as Crede was at 3rd. He had a really great start to his career in 2007, and the Sox messed with him like they do many other prospects. Josh should have gotten the job in 2008, and Crede should have been gone.

I for one am glad the Sox "messed with (Fields)" in 2008 because I enjoyed seeing the Sox win the division in 2008. That doesn't happen if Fields is at third base.

russ99
07-29-2009, 01:40 PM
Another of the Spring 2009 "Kids who can't play". Fields was given every chance and failed miserably. And stop with these accusations of the Sox not giving their prospects a chance. The Sox have every right to look elsewhere if these guys don't produce after extended playing time.

Good riddance. At least with his power potential Kenny might get a decent return for him.

JB98
07-29-2009, 01:41 PM
Well, Fields was definitely not given the chance in 2008, as Crede was at 3rd. He had a really great start to his career in 2007, and the Sox messed with him like they do many other prospects. Josh should have gotten the job in 2008, and Crede should have been gone.

But Crede got hurt in 2008, and Fields was unable to step up and take his place. In part, that was because Fields had some injuries of his own last year. In any case, everyone agreed the Sox were better off with Juan Uribe at 3B than Josh Fields. That is a sad commentary on Fields.

I think there is room for reasonable disagreement as far as projecting what Fields will do offensively in the future. I personally don't think he will ever hit higher than .240. He's a high strikeout power guy, which is something the Sox already have too much of. Fields is a very poor defender. For that reason, he's not in the future plans.

I don't feel the Sox "messed" with Fields. He just isn't that good. He didn't do the job the first two months. Beckham has done the job the last two months, and now he's the 3B.

doublem23
07-29-2009, 01:51 PM
I for one am glad the Sox "messed with (Fields)" in 2008 because I enjoyed seeing the Sox win the division in 2008. That doesn't happen if Fields is at third base.

:clap:

TDog
07-29-2009, 01:57 PM
....

I don't feel the Sox "messed" with Fields. He just isn't that good. He didn't do the job the first two months. Beckham has done the job the last two months, and now he's the 3B.

I know this thread is about Josh Fields and not Gordon Beckham, but it is interesting how the two compare, especially in baseball maturity at the beginning of their careers.

Beckham may be a faster maturing Ryne Sandberg. Sandberg went hitless for a long time when he came up to the Cubs as a natural shortstop playing third. Beckham, however, is having more offensive rookie success than Sanberg, who didn't begin to hit bigtime until the Cubs moved him to second, which wasn't his natural position either.

Fields was so badly a bust at third that the White Sox had to let him prove he would be a bust in left.

And I never thought much of Fields offensively because of his high strikeout rate. With young hitters, big strikeout numbers send up a red flag.

PhillipsBubba
07-29-2009, 02:00 PM
You can be if you want to. No problem. Go for it dude...

Come again:scratch::scratch::scratch:

spawn
07-29-2009, 02:01 PM
Come again:scratch::scratch::scratch:
I'll spell it out for you...you can be a Cubs fan. I don't think anyone here would mind.

PhillipsBubba
07-29-2009, 02:04 PM
...the Sox messed with him like they do many other prospects. Josh should have gotten the job in 2008, and Crede should have been gone.

You are absolutely correct...he had a wonderful half season and what did he get for his efforts...a ticket back to Charlotte while the Sox put all their trust in Crede who fought the club when they wanted him to get his back fixed..

JB98
07-29-2009, 02:10 PM
You are absolutely correct...he had a wonderful half season and what did he get for his efforts...a ticket back to Charlotte while the Sox put all their trust in Crede who fought the club when they wanted him to get his back fixed..

You know, this last week has been very interesting here at WSI. People want Bobby Jenks, who is an accomplished relief pitcher by any standard, hung up by his nuts because he happened to blow two saves.

Yet we have some people tirelessly defending two former first-round picks who failed time and time and time again with every opportunity they ever received with the Sox.

People need to stop apologizing for Anderson and Fields. Neither one of them can hit .240, and Fields can't even field his position. The Sox aren't going to miss these guys.

hi im skot
07-29-2009, 02:10 PM
You are absolutely correct...he had a wonderful half season and what did he get for his efforts...a ticket back to Charlotte while the Sox put all their trust in Crede who fought the club when they wanted him to get his back fixed..


YES! A rip on Crede, now. This thread has it all!

soltrain21
07-29-2009, 02:15 PM
You are absolutely correct...he had a wonderful half season and what did he get for his efforts...a ticket back to Charlotte while the Sox put all their trust in Crede who fought the club when they wanted him to get his back fixed..


What point are you trying to make exactly?

spawn
07-29-2009, 02:17 PM
You are absolutely correct...he had a wonderful half season and what did he get for his efforts...a ticket back to Charlotte while the Sox put all their trust in Crede who fought the club when they wanted him to get his back fixed..
Crede was able to do what Fields still can't...play defense.

PhillipsBubba
07-29-2009, 02:29 PM
I'll spell it out for you...you can be a Cubs fan. I don't think anyone here would mind.

Reading comprehension is fundamental...and a skill...try it some time...

spawn
07-29-2009, 02:31 PM
Reading comprehension is fundamental...and a skill...try it some time...
I'm not the one with the problem. :wink:

PhillipsBubba
07-29-2009, 02:44 PM
I'm not the one with the problem. :wink:

You most certainly are:D:

khan
07-29-2009, 02:44 PM
The craptitude of Josh Fields is what drew me to start posting here, after years of merely reading other posters' thoughts. [Yeah, I know, and I'm sorry.]

I've advocated trading Fields' sorry ass off the club since his lucky 2007 season. Sure, he hit 23 HR, but he also struck out 125 times in 100 games that year.

It became patently-clear to me that Josh Fields simply isn't that good at baseball pretty early on in his tenure with the SOX organization. Looking at his tools [Defense, arm, hitting for average, hitting for power, and speed] he might only have one of them as a "plus." But since he'd been trying to strike out less, his power numbers have plummeted [Career OPS of .722, BTW]. So I doubt that he has ANY pluses in his game at this point, unless he goes back to being a K-machine.

Added to his utter craptitude is his lack of versatility. The sum of all of this is a player that shouldn't be on the White Sox.

This is a clear-cut example of waiting too long to trade a player. Maybe KW fell in love with the fact that like KW, Fields is a former football player. Maybe KW fell in love with the fact that Fields was one of "his" signees. In either case, if one were to look at Fields' minor league and MLB numbers objectively, you could easily see that he should've been moved long ago. Josh Fields was always destined to become what he is today: a K-machine that can't catch, that has no position, and had a lucky rookie year.

To me, KW wasted a golden opportunity to get something of value for that. Good luck to Fields, and thanks for your efforts.

Pear-Zin-Ski
07-29-2009, 02:48 PM
And reality sets in....

What are we going to get for him if we trade? Why NOT keep him? Send him down to AAA and hope he figures it out (again....)

thomas35forever
07-29-2009, 02:52 PM
Frankly, I don't care what happens to Fields. If he stays in the minors, fine. If he gets traded, fine. He's had his chances. He doesn't belong with a contending team right now and his defense sucks ass. I'll be happy if we can get a proven Major Leaguer in return.

Dibbs
07-29-2009, 02:53 PM
I for one am glad the Sox "messed with (Fields)" in 2008 because I enjoyed seeing the Sox win the division in 2008. That doesn't happen if Fields is at third base.

How do you know that? That is ridiculous to say. Maybe he would have flourished and the Sox would have won the World Series. Two can play that game.


But Crede got hurt in 2008, and Fields was unable to step up and take his place. In part, that was because Fields had some injuries of his own last year. In any case, everyone agreed the Sox were better off with Juan Uribe at 3B than Josh Fields. That is a sad commentary on Fields.
.

If I recall correctly, those injuries were after the start of the season. Maybe he wouldn't have gotten injured if he was in the bigs. I was happy to stick with Uribe later in the season, but Josh should have been starting the beginning of the year at third base.



YES! A rip on Crede, now. This thread has it all!

I always liked Joe, but he is one of the most overrated players in White Sox history. Obviously his defense was very solid, be he has a career .256 avg and had only one full season where he hit over .261. Fields should have had his spot at the beginning of 2008.

JB98
07-29-2009, 02:53 PM
And reality sets in....

What are we going to get for him if we trade? Why NOT keep him? Send him down to AAA and hope he figures it out (again....)

Why not keep him? Because he has no position and he's not in the future plans. He's a 27-year-old DH who strikes out every third at-bat.

JB98
07-29-2009, 02:54 PM
How do you know that? That is ridiculous to say. Maybe he would have flourished and the Sox would have won the World Series. Two can play that game.




If I recall correctly, those injuries were after the start of the season. Maybe he wouldn't have gotten injured if he was in the bigs. I was happy to stick with Uribe later in the season, but Josh should have been starting the beginning of the year at third base.





I always liked Joe, but he is one of the most overrated players in White Sox history. Obviously his defense was very solid, be he has a career .256 avg and had only one full season where he hit over .261. Fields should have had his spot at the beginning of 2008.

On the basis of what?

Dibbs
07-29-2009, 02:58 PM
On the basis of what?


On the basis that he had 23 HRs and 67 RBI in 373 at bats to finish 2007. That projects to a 35HR and 100 RBI season. Not to mention Crede's back was shot at this point.

hi im skot
07-29-2009, 02:59 PM
On the basis that he had 23 HRs and 67 RBI in 373 at bats to finish 2007. That projects to a 35HR and 100 RBI season. Not to mention Crede's back was shot at this point.

Wasn't Fields hurt for most of 2008?

Dibbs
07-29-2009, 03:06 PM
Wasn't Fields hurt for most of 2008?

He was hurt most of the year. However, I believe he was healthy at the beginning of the year, and should have had the spot at third. Maybe he doesn't get injured if he wasn't sent down. Who knows?

JB98
07-29-2009, 03:08 PM
On the basis that he had 23 HRs and 67 RBI in 373 at bats to finish 2007. That projects to a 35HR and 100 RBI season. Not to mention Crede's back was shot at this point.

He also struck out 125 times in those 373 at-bats. And his defense was brutal. The Sox should have traded him at the end of 2007, before people realized how bad he is.

The Sox were terrible in 2007 with Fields as the everyday 3B, and they were terrible the first two months of this season with Fields as the everyday 3B. There's no doubt that Josh's glove was one of the factors during those periods of losing.

The 2008 Sox weren't lacking in home run power. They didn't need a slugging 3B. They needed someone who could catch the damn ball. Crede got hurt again, so that person turned out to be Juan Uribe.

The bottom line is I don't own a White Sox 2008 AL Central Champions T-Shirt if Josh Fields were given the 3B job for 2008. There are clear reasons why he was sent to Charlotte to start the year. They weren't "messing" with him. They were trying to win, which is what they should be doing.

spawn
07-29-2009, 03:09 PM
He was hurt most of the year. However, I believe he was healthy at the beginning of the year, and should have had the spot at third. Maybe he doesn't get injured if he wasn't sent down. Who knows?
So you think defensively, he earned the spot over Crede, because offensively during ST, he didn't exactly tear the cover off the ball.

hi im skot
07-29-2009, 03:11 PM
He was hurt most of the year. However, I believe he was healthy at the beginning of the year, and should have had the spot at third. Maybe he doesn't get injured if he wasn't sent down. Who knows?

As someone mentioned earlier, he had a disappointing spring. The Sox had a good idea what they were going to get with Crede, and Fields was still a huge question mark.

No matter the case, Fields has had ample time to learn to play the game and has shown little improvement. Beckham has improved both offensively and defensively in just over a month.

I refuse to feel bad for Fields.

spawn
07-29-2009, 03:13 PM
As someone mentioned earlier, he had a disappointing spring. The Sox had a good idea what they were going to get with Crede, and Fields was still a huge question mark.

No matter the case, Fields has had ample time to learn to play the game and has shown little improvement. Beckham has improved both offensively and defensively in just over a month.

I refuse to feel bad for Fields.
I think this is a key point. Beckham, in learning a new position, IMO is already a better 3rd baseman than Josh Fields, and he is a BIG improvement offensively.

khan
07-29-2009, 03:26 PM
He also struck out 125 times in those 373 at-bats. And his defense was brutal. The Sox should have traded him at the end of 2007, before people realized how bad he is.

The Sox were terrible in 2007 with Fields as the everyday 3B, and they were terrible the first two months of this season with Fields as the everyday 3B. There's no doubt that Josh's glove was one of the factors during those periods of losing.

The 2008 Sox weren't lacking in home run power. They didn't need a slugging 3B. They needed someone who could catch the damn ball. Crede got hurt again, so that person turned out to be Juan Uribe.
I agree with you, but in particular with the bolded statements.

LoveYourSuit
07-29-2009, 03:35 PM
Let's see now:

The hole fillers Kenny put together this offseason:


BA -gone
Owens- gone
Lilibridge - gone
Fields - gone
Betemit - gone
Colon - hurt and bad
Getz - still a work in progress
Richard - still a work in progress
Wise - sucks


Thank God for Beckham and Pods. Both who were not even part of the opening day roster.


Kenny Williams gets a D- from for the construction of this 2009 club.

He better damn hope Flowers is the second coming or Ruth.

soltrain21
07-29-2009, 03:43 PM
He better damn hope Flowers is the second coming or Ruth.

I usually agree with you but....

:hawk
Get up, strettch!

UChicagoHP
07-29-2009, 03:45 PM
In the grand scheme of things, this is pretty minor. Fields will always be a below average MLB player who you really don't want getting more than 200 AB's. He has some pop, and that is all he really brings to the table. He will fetch more than BA, but not much. See ya Josh, good luck wherever you end up...

UChicagoHP
07-29-2009, 03:46 PM
Let's see now:



He better damn hope Flowers is the second coming or Ruth.

All signs point to Flowers being a stud with the bat, so you may get your wish.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/Tyler-Flowers.shtml

In fact, down the line, this could be the best move Kenny makes for this team. Flowers is going to absolutely rake AND get on base. After seeing him live a month ago, I've been sold. Batspeed, power, everything you want in a potential MLB stud. ATL made a huge mistake...

kittle42
07-29-2009, 03:47 PM
Let's see now:

The hole fillers Kenny put together this offseason:


BA -gone
Owens- gone
Lilibridge - gone
Fields - gone
Betemit - gone
Colon - hurt and bad
Getz - still a work in progress
Richard - still a work in progress
Wise - sucks


Thank God for Beckham and Pods. Both who were not even part of the opening day roster.


Kenny Williams gets a D- from for the construction of this 2009 club.

He better damn hope Flowers is the second coming or Ruth.

Great post! I agree 100%.

But - wait - UNDER THE RADAR!!!

ZombieRob
07-29-2009, 03:48 PM
Thats all well and fine. But when is K.W going to instead of looking for bats,look for some gloves.

UChicagoHP
07-29-2009, 03:51 PM
Thats all well and fine. But when is K.W going to instead of looking for bats,look for some gloves.

Gloves are nice, but getting on base/hitting/pitching wins championships.

kittle42
07-29-2009, 03:52 PM
Thats all well and fine. But when is K.W going to instead of looking for bats,look for some gloves.

Agreed. A team of slick-fielding mid-'80s Latin shortstops would trounce everyone!

Dibbs
07-29-2009, 03:52 PM
So you think defensively, he earned the spot over Crede, because offensively during ST, he didn't exactly tear the cover off the ball.

I think Crede should have been traded for a bag of balls.

hi im skot
07-29-2009, 03:53 PM
Gloves are nice, but getting on base/hitting/pitching wins championships.


so...PLAYING BASEBALL WINS YOU BASEBALL'S WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.

tstrike2000
07-29-2009, 03:53 PM
F*** Ozzie and his love for Wise.

Fields and Wise both suck, but at least Wise can play a little CF.

ZombieRob
07-29-2009, 03:53 PM
Gloves are nice, but getting on base/hitting/pitching wins championships.
Catching the ball goes a very long way as well. This team has been mediocre to bad defensively since 2005. 50+ unearned runs is horrible.

hi im skot
07-29-2009, 03:54 PM
Agreed. A team of slick-fielding mid-'80s Latin shortstops would trounce everyone!

Only if they're wearing stirrups.

Madscout
07-29-2009, 03:54 PM
Gloves are nice, but getting on base/hitting/pitching wins championships.

Tell that to the 2005 White Sox. Gloves saved that team more than a few times, especially in the post season.

Metalthrasher442
07-29-2009, 03:56 PM
All signs point to Flowers being a stud with the bat, so you may get your wish.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/Tyler-Flowers.shtml

In fact, down the line, this could be the best move Kenny makes for this team. Flowers is going to absolutely rake AND get on base. After seeing him live a month ago, I've been sold. Batspeed, power, everything you want in a potential MLB stud. ATL made a huge mistake...

Damn thanks for giving me that link, I hadn't been keeping tabs on him down there, but he had a hell of a season in AA. Can't wait to see what he can do with more playing time in AAA and I wonder when he'll see his debut.

soxnut1018
07-29-2009, 04:02 PM
Tell that to the 2005 White Sox. Gloves saved that team more than a few times, especially in the post season.

But not as much as their pitching and timely hitting.

Randar68
07-29-2009, 04:06 PM
Couldn't this just be that the Sox were taking ****ty players in the 1st round? Save for Beckham, the Sox haven't had a productive 1st rounder since when, 1991? The Sox's scouting and player development have frankly, been terrible for the better part of the last 20 years. Luckily it looks like Bacon is just too good to screw up, no matter how hard they try, but they've pretty much done a number on every solid prospect in the farm system for years now.


When has Fields had the chance to play himself back into shape? He had a great first season when Crede went down and played last year on one leg... This year he was splitting time right out of the gate and was not given a chance to work through his struggles at the plate, IMO. And what young players haven't struggled defensively on the left side of the infield? Crede had a few high error years over there early on and it took him well more than 1500 MLB AB's to become a useful MLB hitter. Fields hasn't had 650 AB's over 3 seasons now fer chrissakes.

Beckham at 3rd is a waste of his talents, anyways. He should be playing SS or 2B, where his production would be even more valuable.

Whitesoxfan23
07-29-2009, 04:07 PM
Let's see now:

The hole fillers Kenny put together this offseason:


BA -gone
Owens- gone
Lilibridge - gone
Fields - gone
Betemit - gone
Colon - hurt and bad
Getz - still a work in progress
Richard - still a work in progress
Wise - sucks


Thank God for Beckham and Pods. Both who were not even part of the opening day roster.


Kenny Williams gets a D- from for the construction of this 2009 club.

He better damn hope Flowers is the second coming or Ruth.



KW did a terrible job in the off-season. I'm suprised more people aren't admitting to this.

kittle42
07-29-2009, 04:09 PM
KW did a terrible job in the off-season. I'm suprised more people aren't admitting to this.

Under the radar - of suckitude.

voodoochile
07-29-2009, 04:13 PM
KW did a terrible job in the off-season. I'm suprised more people aren't admitting to this.

Maybe because it's an overly simplistic outlook on what has gone on since last season ended...

It ignores Getz's progress.

It ignores the overall record the Sox have had from the 5th starter this year.

It completely ignores injuries and how they have factored into the situation.

It ignores payroll constraints and the economic issues the Sox faced both last season and currently.

It ignores the other moves the Sox have made since the off-season.

It ignores Ozzie's input into team makeup.

It ignores the fact that Fields was ready for his shot and had a monster spring training (ditto for Getz).

It's a halfassed assessment in general, but it sure does sound smart if you are looking for a reason to agree with the sentiment...

russ99
07-29-2009, 04:28 PM
Maybe because it's an overly simplistic outlook on what has gone on since last season ended...

It ignores Getz's progress.

It ignores the overall record the Sox have had from the 5th starter this year.

It completely ignores injuries and how they have factored into the situation.

It ignores payroll constraints and the economic issues the Sox faced both last season and currently.

It ignores the other moves the Sox have made since the off-season.

It ignores Ozzie's input into team makeup.

It ignores the fact that Fields was ready for his shot and had a monster spring training (ditto for Getz).

It's a halfassed assessment in general, but it sure does sound smart if you are looking for a reason to agree with the sentiment...

Getz has done OK, but you can bet if the Sox had another everyday 3B who could hit MLB pitching, he'd be riding the pine and Beckham or Alexei would be at 2B.

Let me know how the Sox 4th and 5th starters have done vs. the rest of the league. We have 3 starters and 2 maybes.

Injuries? Who's? None of the rookies/kids were hurt to a level where they dropped their level of production... Fields stunk before and after he was hurt.

Payroll constraints - don't even get me started. IMO that's half reality and half an excuse.

What moves have the Sox made that affected the kids production level? Pods & Beckham are the only major ones, and all that did was keep Nix's playing time down. Josh Fields had 2 months to show how much he's regressed.

Ozzie's input on the roster - as far as I've ever heard, that's a GM/coaches/manager mutual decision. Can't blame Ozzie for that.

If Fields was so ready, why is he hitting .220?

Yeah, maybe it's not so simple, but when you come down to it, Kenny went the cheap and easy route this offseason for whatever reason and it didn't work out. At least he's doing something about it now unlike in 2007.

LoveYourSuit
07-29-2009, 04:36 PM
I usually agree with you but....

:hawk
Get up, strettch!

To jeopardize a very winnable season based on the lack of competition within the division, hell yes Flowers better be a stud.

The 2007 fiasco was all forgiven because of Gavin and Danks.

Flowers better be a huge piece to the Sox puzzle very soon or Sox fans will not forget. The gate is suffering already.

gobears1987
07-29-2009, 04:39 PM
You are absolutely correct...he had a wonderful half season and what did he get for his efforts...a ticket back to Charlotte while the Sox put all their trust in Crede who fought the club when they wanted him to get his back fixed..
Shoota, is that you?

voodoochile
07-29-2009, 04:40 PM
Getz has done OK, but you can bet if the Sox had an everyday 3B who could hit MLB pitching, he'd be riding the pine and Beckham or Alexei would be at 2B.

Let me know how the Sox 4th and 5th starters have done vs. the rest of the league.

Injuries? Who's? None of the rookies/kids were hurt to a level where they dropped their level of production...

Payroll constraints - don't even get me started. IMO that's half reality and half an excuse.

What moves have the Sox made that affected the kids production level? Pods & Beckham are the only major ones, and all that did was keep Nix's playing time down. Josh Fields had 2 months to show how much he's regressed.

Ozzie's input on the roster - as far as I've ever heard, that's a GM/coaches/manager mutual decision. Can't blame Ozzie for that.

If Fields was so ready, why is he hitting .220?

Yeah, maybe it's not so simple, but when you come down to it, Kenny went the cheap and easy route this offseason for whatever reason and it didn't work out. At least he's doing something about it now unlike in 2007.

I think the condemnation of Getz is enhanced by last night's brainfart. Just a few weeks ago tons of people were singing his praises for being a pleasant surprise.

Injuries: Early in the season, Wise, BA, TCQ and Nix all had injuries forcing the Sox to go with Lillibridge and Betemit far past the time they might have otherwise been sent down or cut.

4th and 5th starters combined are 11-18 with 15 quality starts and a 4.6 ERA. Not great but mostly acceptable, especially if you factor in the way Contreras seems to have turned it around after his stint on the DL. Would like more wins, but this team is only 1 game over .500

I don't know how Ozzie's input into personnell decisions have affected things, I was merely pointing out that purely blaming KW ignores another piece in the puzzle.

I accept the payroll statements at face value.

I said Fields was ready for his shot. Obviously that is true, the fact he crapped the bed is a different issue, but when you've got a guy who's main drawback was his defense and he appeared to be getting that together and he's had a bat that has shown signs of being MLB ready and he puts together a monster Spring, most people are willing to take a chance.

gobears1987
07-29-2009, 04:41 PM
I always liked Joe, but he is one of the most overrated players in White Sox history. Obviously his defense was very solid, be he has a career .256 avg and had only one full season where he hit over .261. Fields should have had his spot at the beginning of 2008.
And we could deal with it because he had gold glove caliber defense at the hot corner. Fields can't field a ****ing easy grounder whereas Crede would regularly dive and steal line shots that should've been doubles down the line. I'm not an athlete and I bet I can field that position better than Fields. You probably can too.

Rohan
07-29-2009, 05:01 PM
All this because of our managements obsession with Dewayne Wise.

Dibbs
07-29-2009, 05:06 PM
And we could deal with it because he had gold glove caliber defense at the hot corner. Fields can't field a ****ing easy grounder whereas Crede would regularly dive and steal line shots that should've been doubles down the line. I'm not an athlete and I bet I can field that position better than Fields. You probably can too.

Crede stunk last year at third base. Not in the top half of third baseman let alone gold glove caliber. He had twenty errors in 97 games played. He made a ton of terrible throws too. I do agree Fields doesn't play good defense by no stretch of the imagination.

kittle42
07-29-2009, 05:08 PM
All this because of our managements obsession with Dewayne Wise.

Or we could blame it on the actual players in question simply sucking too much, but then it would remove the scapegoat, and what fun would that be?

wsgdf
07-29-2009, 05:09 PM
Or we could blame it on the actual players in question simply sucking too much, but then it would remove the scapegoat, and what fun would that be?


:bandance:

spawn
07-29-2009, 05:14 PM
All this because of our managements obsession with Dewayne Wise.
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Tragg
07-29-2009, 05:42 PM
As someone mentioned earlier, he had a disappointing spring. The Sox had a good idea what they were going to get with Crede, and Fields was still a huge question mark.

No matter the case, Fields has had ample time to learn to play the game and has shown little improvement. Beckham has improved both offensively and defensively in just over a month.

I refuse to feel bad for Fields.
It's not a matter of feeling bad. It's a matter of being realistic. Okay, Fields isn't Beckham - does every young player have to immediately hit .300? Fields hasn't had a full 1/2 a season since the end of 2007 to play and develop.
Hell, people think Richard and Poreda are uselss because in 1/.5 seasons, they aren't top of the rotation starters.
So Fields is struggling and Ozzie Guillen wants him vanquished and replaced by a veteran worse than he is. That's a great way to take care of Sox assets.
There are TWO young players that the Sox basically vanquished because of Guillen's love affair with DeWayne Wise.

kittle42
07-29-2009, 05:50 PM
There are TWO young players that the Sox basically vanquished because of Guillen's love affair with DeWayne Wise.

Hey, maybe one day it will help us get rid of other sucky players, too. Perhaps that is actually Wise's most valuable contribution to the team! Go, DeWayne!

Boondock Saint
07-29-2009, 06:20 PM
It's not a matter of feeling bad. It's a matter of being realistic. Okay, Fields isn't Beckham - does every young player have to immediately hit .300? Fields hasn't had a full 1/2 a season since the end of 2007 to play and develop.


No, but it would be nice to see some improvement over the course of three years. He hit 23 homers with 125 strikeouts in '07. This year, he has seven homers and 71 strikeouts, all while his BA dropped 25 points. Also, he still plays terrible defense at 3B. I don't see why you'd think he's going to figure it out all of a sudden.

Rohan
07-29-2009, 06:28 PM
Or we could blame it on the actual players in question simply sucking too much, but then it would remove the scapegoat, and what fun would that be?

Except that statistically Dewayne Wise sucks more than the players in question (fields). So there needs to be another reason aside from stats. Similar to Anderson having .040+ better batting average than Wise when he was sent down.

Who's our back up third baseman right now?

fuzzy_patters
07-29-2009, 06:36 PM
Except that statistically Dewayne Wise sucks more than the players in question (fields). So there needs to be another reason aside from stats. Similar to Anderson having .040+ better batting average than Wise when he was sent down.

Who's our back up third baseman right now?

Nix

ode to veeck
07-29-2009, 06:40 PM
So Fields is struggling and Ozzie Guillen wants him vanquished and replaced by a veteran worse than he is.

Tragg, I am a self admitted FOBA but you're really losing me here. No way Fields is anything close to Kotsay, who can play anywhere in the outfield and apparently also at 1B as well as hit when he's healthy. Even you're admitting Fields needs development and there's no place better than AAA for this, especially when there's really no where for him to play defensively, and offensively he's just plain offensive. Leave Wise out of this where he belongs, as there's no way Fields is in CF under any conditions.

Tragg
07-29-2009, 06:41 PM
No, but it would be nice to see some improvement over the course of three years. He hit 23 homers with 125 strikeouts in '07. This year, he has seven homers and 71 strikeouts, all while his BA dropped 25 points. Also, he still plays terrible defense at 3B. I don't see why you'd think he's going to figure it out all of a sudden.
I don't know that he will. But what are we throwing him away for - Wise? That's the whole point, and what his been the point over the entire Anderson (now Fields) saga: The ceiling of the aged veteran is below the current performance of the young player that has upside. Ozzie wants the young player gone.

Hell, Guillen was grousing about Beckham his first week up. "I gotta have production." -LOL Oz, when you keep DeWayne Wise on the roster.

TDog
07-29-2009, 06:42 PM
Nix

Ramirez can play third in an emergency situation, although he only played one inning there last year.

ode to veeck
07-29-2009, 06:43 PM
Except that statistically Dewayne Wise sucks more than the players in question (fields). So there needs to be another reason aside from stats.



Wrong, Dewayne can at least play (at times) in the outfield and steal bases. I can't for the life of me figure out what Fields can do yet.

doublem23
07-29-2009, 06:43 PM
I always liked Joe, but he is one of the most overrated players in White Sox history. Obviously his defense was very solid, be he has a career .256 avg and had only one full season where he hit over .261. Fields should have had his spot at the beginning of 2008.

Crede was hitting the cover off the ball to start the year in 2008, and was pretty effective until his back started hurting. The dude earned his 1 last chance and he got it. The Sox were more foolish, IMO, to hand the job to Fields in 2009 than they were to hand it back to Joe in 2008.

TDog
07-29-2009, 06:58 PM
Crede was hitting the cover off the ball to start the year in 2008, and was pretty effective until his back started hurting. The dude earned his 1 last chance and he got it. The Sox were more foolish, IMO, to hand the job to Fields in 2009 than they were to hand it back to Joe in 2008.

Crede's career batting average also fails to take into account his improvement as a hitter. He didn't really develop until the 2005 season, and only after a lot of hard work. He had the opportunity to develop because he played solid defense.

If Fields played better defense, he might have been given the sort of chance Crede was given.

getonbckthr
07-29-2009, 07:01 PM
Crede was hitting the cover off the ball to start the year in 2008, and was pretty effective until his back started hurting. The dude earned his 1 last chance and he got it. The Sox were more foolish, IMO, to hand the job to Fields in 2009 than they were to hand it back to Joe in 2008.
Wasn't Crede an all-star last season?

doublem23
07-29-2009, 07:04 PM
Wasn't Crede an all-star last season?

Yeah, but I think he got a token nod because of his great play to start the season. He was hitting over .300 until mid-April and after a bit of a slump, got his BA back up to .292 by early June, but he was already falling apart by the All-Star Game (I think he was hitting around .250). He only played like 10 games the 2nd half of the year before he had to shut it down again.

doublem23
07-29-2009, 07:05 PM
Wrong, Dewayne can at least play (at times) in the outfield and steal bases. I can't for the life of me figure out what Fields can do yet.

Strike out.

thedudeabides
07-29-2009, 07:41 PM
I don't know that he will. But what are we throwing him away for - Wise? That's the whole point, and what his been the point over the entire Anderson (now Fields) saga: The ceiling of the aged veteran is below the current performance of the young player that has upside. Ozzie wants the young player gone.

Hell, Guillen was grousing about Beckham his first week up. "I gotta have production." -LOL Oz, when you keep DeWayne Wise on the roster.

Again, Wise has nothing to do with Fields being sent down. AND OZZIE IS NOT THE GM.

PalehosePlanet
07-29-2009, 07:48 PM
Strike out.

Yes, and at 89-91 mph fastballs that are thigh high.

For the life of me I cannot remember the last player I watched play that had so much trouble hitting a routine fastball.

Rohan
07-29-2009, 07:49 PM
Wrong, Dewayne can at least play (at times) in the outfield and steal bases. I can't for the life of me figure out what Fields can do yet.

If you can't figure out what he CAN do then look up his 2007 season. That's what he CAN do. Show me a similar glimmer of hope from Mr. Wise.

slavko
07-29-2009, 07:50 PM
Again, Wise has nothing to do with Fields being sent down. AND OZZIE IS NOT THE GM.

True, KW is responsible, but when KW sent Anderson away, he said "I listened to my coaches." You have to read between the lines here. It doesn't require a DNA match to draw the proper conclusion.

ode to veeck
07-29-2009, 08:06 PM
If you can't figure out what he CAN do then look up his 2007 season. That's what he CAN do. Show me a similar glimmer of hope from Mr. Wise.

Wise did something last week I have yet to see Fields do, make a great catch with the leather, and oh yes, Josh was striking out once every 3rd plate appearance in '07 too. If Josh could play 3rd base or OF that would be another thing, but he's not even close to being there. I can't believe folks are bitching about Fields getting sent down, he's a no tool player at this point at MLB level.

TheVulture
07-29-2009, 08:10 PM
Dave Kingman hit 442 homeruns in his career, could strike out once every three ABs and play defense just as lousy as Fields. That didn't mean he had any place on a decent team.

Rohan
07-29-2009, 08:11 PM
Wise did something last week I have yet to see Fields do, make a great catch with the leather, and oh yes, Josh was striking out once every 3rd plate appearance in '07 too. If Josh could play 3rd base or OF that would be another thing, but he's not even close to being there. I can't believe folks are bitching about Fields getting sent down, he's a no tool player at this point at MLB level.

If you really want to draw your argument from one example i can do the same thing and tell you that Josh Fields hit a grand slam in that same game. And he's still hitting .050 points higher than Wise.

soxfanreggie
07-29-2009, 08:22 PM
I'm not going to be upset if we trade Fields as part of a deal to get something more than a bag of balls. As long as we have Ramirez at SS, Bacon will have to be at 3rd. Only way I want to move Alexei back to 2nd is if he's there long term, and that means signing a 3B and moving Bacon to SS.

There is also the move of Fields to 1B and PK to DH. You have to have a lot of trust in Fields getting better there though because 1B and DH are usually your biggest bat positions and we are a team that needs some strong hitters there. While he may want to leave, we need not make the move just because he wants to. He is getting paid a lot of money to play this game, and he should be held to the contract like we are. Hopefully he is a professional about it and gives it his all.

I also don't blame Ozzie for the draft picks. That was part of the "cheap" philosophy we had up until last year. We all knew that we weren't picking the "high-ceiling" guys with picks of Broadway and McCullough. We also didn't shell out the big, big $$$ to sign them either.

thedudeabides
07-29-2009, 08:26 PM
True, KW is responsible, but when KW sent Anderson away, he said "I listened to my coaches." You have to read between the lines here. It doesn't require a DNA match to draw the proper conclusion.

There is no doubt the coaches, especially Ozzie, have input, but Ozzie did not trade Brian Anderson, he did not acquire Mark Kotsay, and he did not send down Josh Fields. I'm sick of reading it on this site.

The coaches have input, but Kenny has the final say. Look no further than Gordon Beckham and Aaron Poreda. Completely, Kenny's call against Ozzie's wishes. There have been a lot of these examples throughout their tenures.

Tragg
07-29-2009, 08:56 PM
Again, Wise has nothing to do with Fields being sent down. AND OZZIE IS NOT THE GM.
Of course he did. We get Kotsay, and instead of sending Wise down, we send Fields down. It was a Wise over Fields decision.
And Guillen clearly has major influence on personnel decisions. Unfortunately.

Wise did something last week I have yet to see Fields do, make a great catch with the leather, and oh yes, Josh was striking out once every 3rd plate appearance in '07 too.
Wise is hitting .180 and except for that one catch, has played lousy defense.
Guillen won't even pinch hit for him, and it simply doesn't matter how badly Wise hits.

thedudeabides
07-29-2009, 09:20 PM
Of course he did. We get Kotsay, and instead of sending Wise down, we send Fields down. It was a Wise over Fields decision.And Guillen clearly has major influence on personnel decisions. Unfortunately.


If you truly believe this than you are beyond reason. That would leave us with only one player capable of backing up the outfield, and it's very questionable whether he can play CF.

parlaycard
07-29-2009, 11:37 PM
How can anybody be pissed at Josh?


For one he has been pretty poor at the plate,

Are we supposed to be happy about that?

Boondock Saint
07-29-2009, 11:48 PM
For one he has been pretty poor at the plate,

Are we supposed to be happy about that?

Don't forget that he plays a pretty subpar 3B, and that he thinks he's entitled to a trade when he should just be quiet and work on his swing/defense in AAA like a big boy.

doublem23
07-30-2009, 12:00 AM
Wise is hitting .180 and except for that one catch, has played lousy defense.
Guillen won't even pinch hit for him, and it simply doesn't matter how badly Wise hits.

You've obviously not watched him play. He had some great plays just in the Detroit series, that layout catch in the 1st inning of Game 1, the throw that should have nailed a runner at the plate Saturday had Castro actually caught the ball, etc.

I know, I know, to plenty of people it's chic to criticize Dewayne every step he takes, but if you think he's a "lousy" defender, well, then you don't know jack **** about baseball.

Sam Spade
07-30-2009, 12:02 AM
Don't forget that he plays a pretty subpar 3B, and that he thinks he's entitled to a trade when he should just be quiet and work on his swing/defense in AAA like a big boy.
No he doesn't. I agree he sucks at the plate, but his D was major league average at 3B this year. Stop living in the past.

Anyhow, pending alexei, he might be back up tomorrow, so this thread should just quiet down for a bit.

Rohan
07-30-2009, 12:29 AM
You've obviously not watched him play. He had some great plays just in the Detroit series, that layout catch in the 1st inning of Game 1, the throw that should have nailed a runner at the plate Saturday had Castro actually caught the ball, etc.

I know, I know, to plenty of people it's chic to criticize Dewayne every step he takes, but if you think he's a "lousy" defender, well, then you don't know jack **** about baseball.

It's true.. He's not a sub-par outfielder. That being said, he is a sub-par center fielder - there's a difference. I have no problem with him filling in for Quentin or Dye, but because our worst outfielder is now playing center field (Podsednik), we have problems.

Wise just does not consistently get good reads on the ball.

Boondock Saint
07-30-2009, 12:33 AM
No he doesn't. I agree he sucks at the plate, but his D was major league average at 3B this year. Stop living in the past.

Anyhow, pending alexei, he might be back up tomorrow, so this thread should just quiet down for a bit.

Arguing over whether he's average or below average at 3B is neither here nor there. The point is that he sure as hell isn't good enough overall to be asking for a trade when he should be working on getting good enough to do so.

t1mm41
07-30-2009, 03:16 AM
You've obviously not watched him play. He had some great plays just in the Detroit series, that layout catch in the 1st inning of Game 1, the throw that should have nailed a runner at the plate Saturday had Castro actually caught the ball, etc.

I know, I know, to plenty of people it's chic to criticize Dewayne every step he takes, but if you think he's a "lousy" defender, well, then you don't know jack **** about baseball.


i agree that wise is the better choice to keep up than fields, but i still am a foba

SBSoxFan
07-30-2009, 05:40 AM
You've obviously not watched him play. He had some great plays just in the Detroit series, that layout catch in the 1st inning of Game 1, the throw that should have nailed a runner at the plate Saturday had Castro actually caught the ball, etc.

I know, I know, to plenty of people it's chic to criticize Dewayne every step he takes, but if you think he's a "lousy" defender, well, then you don't know jack **** about baseball.

I disagree with your comment about the throw home. That ball tailed majorly toward the first base side. It also wasn't going to make it all the way to the plate. For those two reasons, Castro had to go out and get the ball, and, all in one motion, try a sweep tag. Because he was rushed he didn't catch it.

No telling had Casto taken more time to catch the ball whether he would have gotten back to the plate in time. I don't think you can consider that a great play. However, Wise does look more comfortable in CF than at a corner.