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ChicagoHoosier
07-28-2009, 10:22 AM
All the complaining we've done about our batting and bullpen in the last few games made me look up our fielding stats. I saw in an article that we had 75 errors. I realize errors aren't the only thing to look at when judging team defense, but it's alarming that that we consider ourselves a competitor in our division, yet have committed the 4th most errors in the entire league and the most in the American League.

Not looking to answer the "who is to blame" question, but more of what does this team need to do to fix this problem the remaining 60 games to allow us a chance to not throw away games like last night.

TomBradley72
07-28-2009, 10:42 AM
I don't really know how to address the defense....my guess it's mostly in the infield....and the guys we have are the guys we have.

Beckham, Ramirez and Getz may all get better as they gain more time as a unit and in their positions (we pretty much have three rookies at their positions in the infield), but I wouldn't anticipate any dramatic improvements.

kittle42
07-28-2009, 10:43 AM
This team has stressed "fundamentals" but has not displayed any for the 4th straight season now. We shouldn't be surprised.

ode to veeck
07-28-2009, 10:44 AM
drills help but usually more work done in spring training on this kind of stuff (when you have the time to do it), but given we've got 3 infielders in new positions at 2B, SS 3B as well as CF out of place with Pods, we're gonna have to suffer through it til the kids come into their new positions. I would like to see Alexi get more comfortable at SS so that he charges more balls rather than lets the ball play him and waiting for it--like on the high hopper last night that Nix threw away the relay on--getting the ball to Nix earlier would have made a much easier play for him (not that there's any excuse for the poor throw). Hopefully, by crunch time in Sept and Oct this team has improved the skills on D to the point the stats for the year become less meaningful- that's the gamble this arrangement is built on, that the talent is there in the kids and they'll come around to their new positions.

ChicagoHoosier
07-28-2009, 11:19 AM
I'm getting to the point when a ball is hit to short, I fear the throw to first the same way I did when it was Valentin playing there.

Let's hope, for our sake, we cut them down in the next two months.

TomBradley72
07-28-2009, 11:31 AM
This team has stressed "fundamentals" but has not displayed any for the 4th straight season now. We shouldn't be surprised.

I think we can stress fundamentals all we want...but it's the make up of the roster not extra emphasis on fundamentals that creates a good defense. With Beckham learning 3rd base at the major league level, with Ramirez in his first full season at SS in MLB, and Getz in his rookie year...I don't think it's lack of emphasis...but more lack of experience...and I'm not sure if Beckham or Getz ever become "plus" defenders at their current positions.

LITTLE NELL
07-28-2009, 11:49 AM
Maybe its time to trade Alexei and move Beckham to short which is his natural posistion. I'm very dissapointed in TCMs play this year.

eriqjaffe
07-28-2009, 11:51 AM
we've got 3 infielders in new positions at 2B, SS 3B as well as CF out of place with PodsReally, the only infielder who is truly out of position is Beckham. Ramirez was primarily a shortstop in Cuba, Pods came up as a centerfielder with the Mariners & Brewers, and Getz has been a second baseman for his entire professional career.

I will agree, however, that none of them are really very good at their positions defensively.

hawkjt
07-28-2009, 12:37 PM
To me, the most inexcusable error last nite was PK's non-catch that cost us their second run. Danks did not make a great throw,but it was not in the dirt and PK has got to catch it or at least knock it down..it was carelessness on his part..just like AJ's passed ball.

I agree that Alexei could have fed Nix quicker if he charges that ball,but that is not glaring, and gomez is exceptionally fast getting to nix. I wish nix had held that ball, but it is more understandable, and also PK could have dug that one out on the bounce with true turf bounces...PK had a bad nite,imo...but Alexei and Getz have to improve their throws to first, Gordo seems to be better of late. Gordo has to improve his range at third.

Work in progress...they have promise, but I want it now!

Madvora
07-28-2009, 12:47 PM
We need all cylinders firing. Our offense is through the roof this year, but the defense is really suffering. It's definitely something different than the last few years.
I agree with a some of what TomBradley72 said above. These improvements may not come until next year.

Daver
07-28-2009, 05:48 PM
Do you really need statistics tio watch this team and see they are a subpar defensive team?

This is the White Sox, if you can hit you can play, it has been the organizational philosophy since Ron Schueler became the GM.

mzh
07-28-2009, 10:17 PM
Obviously it has gotten to the point where even when the pitching can pick up the hitting, or lack thereof, the defense is turning routine outs into runs. If Scott Podsednik makes that easy catch, and Chris Getz is in position to turn that easy double play ball, 3 maybe 4 of the runs never would have scored. This is going to cost us a division if they keep this up.

JB98
07-28-2009, 10:23 PM
Obviously it has gotten to the point where even when the pitching can pick up the hitting, or lack thereof, the defense is turning routine outs into runs. If Scott Podsednik makes that easy catch, and Chris Getz is in position to turn that easy double play ball, 3 maybe 4 of the runs never would have scored. This is going to cost us a division if they keep this up.

This will be the third game on this trip alone where poor defense has cost the Sox a game.

They suck defensively. It is the reason I do not believe they will make the playoffs. You can't outhit your misplays every night. Right now, the offense is in a funk and it magnifies all these defensive gaffes.

Pear-Zin-Ski
07-28-2009, 10:38 PM
look mom - no errors tonight!

ChicagoHoosier
07-28-2009, 10:46 PM
I don't want to sit here and bitch about it. I wonder what the solution may be. Of course, I don't work for the White Sox, so I suppose it's outside my circle of influence. But this really really really frustrates me because this is something a team can control. You can't control pitchers have a bad outing, or hitters going into a slump. But isn't fielding something you CAN make sure you do right? How do you have a fielding slump?

hawkjt
07-28-2009, 10:47 PM
Getz and Pods were absolutely brutal on those two plays. Cost us the ballgame and MB 5 runs.
The offense is in a complete funk also,but catching the ball needs to be there every nite.
Both plays are unexplainable...like they lost track of the ball.

Konerko05
07-28-2009, 10:48 PM
The only way to fix this team's defense is to start replacing players. Right now we have one infielder playing above average defense in Konerko.

Quentin and Podsednik are below average in the outfield. Dye is average at best.

AJ is alright at blocking balls in the dirt, but he is awful at throwing out baserunners.

This is just a bad defensive team.

Next season find an above average defensive 3B, and move Beckham to the middle infield.

As great as Podsednik's been leading off for us this season, I really hope they don't play on keeping him around next season. The chance of him repeating his offensive stats is slim and his defense is just awful, even in LF. Find a real CFer.

Tragg
07-28-2009, 10:49 PM
This is obviously a bad defensive team. The question is, how do you fix it?, assuming the organization cares.

Beckham belongs in the middle infield.
Getz is limited per reports.
Alexei - I don't know; can't get a straight answer on him.
The outfield defense is obviously slow in the corners and simply not very good center field (DeWayne Wise is the defensive replacement - that's says a lot about the outfield defense).
On the bench, perhaps Castro's good - I don't really know.

Lip Man 1
07-28-2009, 11:46 PM
Getz would be a fine utility player in the mold of Sammy Esposito or Tony Graffinino, playing one or two games a week tops.

He is not a starting second baseman.

Lip

Metalthrasher442
07-29-2009, 04:10 PM
Getz would be a fine utility player in the mold of Sammy Esposito or Tony Graffinino, playing one or two games a week tops.

He is not a starting second baseman.

Lip

I almost agree with that, but a .263 average is not that bad and he hasn't been terrible defensively this season.

We do not have a center fielder on this ball club. There's a big key to our defense sucking. Also Ramirez can make some sick ass plays, but will still commit errors on plays I can make. This is his first major league season at short, I see him adjusting and being way better next season.

RowanDye
07-29-2009, 04:19 PM
Do you really need statistics tio watch this team and see they are a subpar defensive team?

This is the White Sox, if you can hit you can play, it has been the organizational philosophy since Ron Schueler became the GM.

If your name is Dewayne Wise you might not have to hit at all...

The only way to fix this team's defense is to start replacing players. Right now we have one infielder playing above average defense in Konerko.

Quentin and Podsednik are below average in the outfield. Dye is average at best.

AJ is alright at blocking balls in the dirt, but he is awful at throwing out baserunners.

This is just a bad defensive team.

Next season find an above average defensive 3B, and move Beckham to the middle infield.

As great as Podsednik's been leading off for us this season, I really hope they don't play on keeping him around next season. The chance of him repeating his offensive stats is slim and his defense is just awful, even in LF. Find a real CFer.

Your free agent options are: Adrian Beltre, Chone Figgins, Joe Crede and Juan Uribe.

Lip Man 1
07-29-2009, 05:40 PM
Figgins should absolutely be at the top of the list, he can play 2nd, 3rd or center next season and lead off and steal bases.

Lip

khan
07-29-2009, 07:26 PM
While I like the idea of bringing in Figgins, though I see that he hasn't played in CF since 2006. Does he still have the ability to play CF any more?