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View Full Version : Any trade involving Gordon Beckham


jdm2662
07-27-2009, 12:31 PM
He cannot be traded until after August 12th. So, can we stop bringing up his name in trade talks, at least until after that day?

GoGoCrede
07-27-2009, 12:39 PM
But he could be a PTBNL, right?

chisoxfanatic
07-27-2009, 12:41 PM
Why? Do players have a minimum number of games they must play at the major league level before they're traded or something?

Boondock Saint
07-27-2009, 12:43 PM
Why? Do players have a minimum number of games they must play at the major league level before they're traded or something?

I believe the wait is one year after the player is drafted.

ChiSoxFan81
07-27-2009, 12:43 PM
But he could be a PTBNL, right?

Or a player to be re-named later

Domeshot17
07-27-2009, 12:43 PM
He would just be PTBNL and benched for 2 weeks to ensure no injury.

rmusacch
07-27-2009, 12:48 PM
But he could be a PTBNL, right?

I believe that a player to be named later has to be someone not currently on the 40 man roster.

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-27-2009, 12:52 PM
Who's Gordon Beckman? :D:

BadBobbyJenks
07-27-2009, 01:10 PM
We can stop talking about him regardless, because he is untouchable.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-27-2009, 01:14 PM
We can stop talking about him regardless, because he is untouchable.

He better be untouchable. Anyone who wants to trade Beckham or even has thoughts of trading Beckham needs to have their head examined. But trading him seems to come up for some reason. It's just nonsense. He is going to be great for 10-plus years and is the type of player you build a team around.

areilly
07-27-2009, 01:17 PM
We can stop talking about him regardless, because he is untouchable.

I have it on good authority that for the right offer, no White Sox player is untouchable. "Right" could be taken to mean "psychotic" or "some team has lost its goddamned mind" but the point is taken. Everyone's available, the only difference is how likely the Sox are to receive an offer they'd accept.

EMel9281
07-27-2009, 01:22 PM
Trade Gordon Beckman and see what you can get...

Gordon Beckham, now, that's another story. He is definitely untouchable.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2009, 01:22 PM
I have it on good authority that for the right offer, no White Sox player is untouchable. "Right" could be taken to mean "psychotic" or "some team has lost its goddamned mind" but the point is taken. Everyone's available, the only difference is how likely the Sox are to receive an offer they'd accept.

Very well put. If the Cardinals offered Puljos for Beckham, are you going to say "sorry, he's untouchable?" Beckham looks like the goods but if someone offered me a current young perennial all-star now, I'd be very tempted.

jdm2662
07-27-2009, 01:30 PM
Per the Score and AM 1000:

A player that is drafted, he cannot be traded until after one full year of when that player signs. Since he was signed on August 12 last year, he cannot be traded until then.

I also heard the PTNL is someone not on the 40 man roster. This I can't confirm 100%, but it's possible.

In other words, he's not going anywhere right now.

eriqjaffe
07-27-2009, 01:32 PM
I believe that a player to be named later has to be someone not currently on the 40 man roster.Incorrect.

The two rules regarding PTBNL are:

1) The transaction must be completed within 6 months.
2) The PTBNL can't have played in the league he's being traded to.

So, basically, if Beckham is a PTBNL, he has to be actually moved by the end of January '10, and he has to go to the National League.

source: http://static.espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html

jdm2662
07-27-2009, 01:33 PM
Very well put. If the Cardinals offered Puljos for Beckham, are you going to say "sorry, he's untouchable?" Beckham looks like the goods but if someone offered me a current young perennial all-star now, I'd be very tempted.

I wouldn't be tempted. I do it in a heartbeat. However, it's not going to happen. So, the question shouldn't be asked.

jdm2662
07-27-2009, 01:34 PM
Incorrect.

The two rules regarding PTBNL are:

1) The transaction must be completed within 6 months.
2) The PTBNL can't have played in the league he's being traded to.

So, basically, if Beckham is a PTBNL, he has to be actually moved by the end of January '10, and he has to go to the National League.

source: http://static.espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html

Ah, thank you. the correct ruiling.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2009, 01:46 PM
I wouldn't be tempted. I do it in a heartbeat. However, it's not going to happen. So, the question shouldn't be asked.

How can you say it will never happen? There have been plenty of awful trades. There are plenty of bad GMs. My point is to label a player untradeable without even knowing what you get in return is stupid. Would you demand a ransom from Beckham? Of course. Would you trade him for a 1 or 2 year rental? Of course not. But if you were to run into a gm enamored with Beckham wanting to "sell high" on a stud player or two that actually still had room to grow, then maybe you could get a ton for him. I know its a different sport, but what if the Cowboys considered Hershall Walker "untouchable" out of hand?

TomBradley72
07-27-2009, 02:08 PM
We can stop talking about him regardless, because he is untouchable.

:yup::yup::yup::yup::yup:

Tragg
07-27-2009, 02:08 PM
We aren't going to trade Beckham for Pujols; nor are we going to trade Beckham for another organization's top 4 prospects.

The idea of trading Beckham would be as a piece to get Halladay or the like. And that would be insane.

JermaineDye05
07-27-2009, 02:12 PM
We aren't going to trade Beckham for Pujols; nor are we going to trade Beckham for another organization's top 4 prospects.

The idea of trading Beckham would be as a piece to get Halladay or the like. And that would be insane.

Exactly. I'm not trading Beckham for anyone that's not named Pujols or Lincecum. Since I'm not the GM, I hope Kenny feels the same way.

white sox bill
07-27-2009, 02:16 PM
Untouchable? Didn't KW more or less say the same about McCarthy? I hope he stays right here...

JermaineDye05
07-27-2009, 02:20 PM
Untouchable? Didn't KW more or less say the same about McCarthy? I hope he stays right here...

Brandon was untouchable until the Rangers gave Kenny an offer he couldn't refuse for McCarthy, being Danks and Masset.

I'm sure if Kenny gets a call from the Giants offering Lincecum/Cain/Sandoval for Beckham he'll pull the trigger in a heartbeat.

Beckham IS untouchable unless Kenny is given an offer he can't refuse again.

Domeshot17
07-27-2009, 02:34 PM
I wouldn't hold him untouchable but that is just me. He isn't having some Ryan Braun going to be one of the best in the game rookie seasons. Hes a solid rookie reason which projects to 365 at bats 65 rbis 10 homers and an 800 ops. In a 500 AB season that translates to like 14 homers and 88 rbis. Very nice, but hardly untouchable. I expect him to improve, tremenedously, am I in no way saying he is capped, but what I am saying is I don't think hes ever going to be the best player on a team. Halladay would be the best pitcher on about 27 other staffs

DumpJerry
07-27-2009, 02:48 PM
Word is that Kenny will hang up the phone if the name "Gordon Beckham" is mentioned by the GM on the other end of the call.

GregO23
07-27-2009, 02:56 PM
:threadsucks

jdm2662
07-27-2009, 03:01 PM
How can you say it will never happen? There have been plenty of awful trades. There are plenty of bad GMs. My point is to label a player untradeable without even knowing what you get in return is stupid. Would you demand a ransom from Beckham? Of course. Would you trade him for a 1 or 2 year rental? Of course not. But if you were to run into a gm enamored with Beckham wanting to "sell high" on a stud player or two that actually still had room to grow, then maybe you could get a ton for him. I know its a different sport, but what if the Cowboys considered Hershall Walker "untouchable" out of hand?

In terms of not knowing what to get in return, that I agree with. If the Cards offered Albert or the Giants offer Lincecum, I would do it in a heartbeat. However, neither team is going to do that, so it's a waste of air space even talking about it.

As for Walker, the Cowboys were in shambles at the time, and Johnson wanted to clean house. Most people, including my 12-year-old self, thought the Vikings were insane trading all they did for Walker, who wasn't even the best back in the league at the time. Sure, he was a solid back, but hardly had the explosiveness of a Barry Sanders or was an all around back like Neal Anderson. The Cowboys had nothing to lose. They were ****ty with Walker. Johnson wanted to build a new team from stratch, and got plenty of pieces to do so. The rest is history, as we know.

Tragg
07-27-2009, 03:18 PM
Brandon was untouchable until the Rangers gave Kenny an offer he couldn't refuse for McCarthy, being Danks and Masset.

I'm sure if Kenny gets a call from the Giants offering Lincecum/Cain/Sandoval for Beckham he'll pull the trigger in a heartbeat.

Beckham IS untouchable unless Kenny is given an offer he can't refuse again.
Brandon, though, was clearly not untouchable. The Sox used him tepidly, spot-started him, and even left him off of the playoff roster. Trading him was really not that big of a surprise.
The Sox LOVE Beckham. And for good reason....he hits the hell out of the ball, has plate discipline (probably the best on the team except for Thome), he's young, and plays the infield.
As for Lincecum/Cain/Sandoval, if / = and, yes; if / = or, not a chance.

Pear-Zin-Ski
07-27-2009, 03:25 PM
Give me one reason why the Sox would want to give up Beckham, other than a totally one-sided trade....

He can obviously hit.
A patient man at the plate.
Smart on the basepaths.
A VERY decent 3B.

Honestly I am not worried about his defense at 3B at all. Sure there are going to be some balls he misplays, but how much worse is he than Fields who has shown none of the above!

DO
NOT
TOUCH
BECKMAN! er...Beckham! :rolleyes:

eriqjaffe
07-27-2009, 04:28 PM
Word is that Kenny will hang up the phone if the name "Gordon Beckham" is mentioned by the GM on the other end of the call.It's true, I saw him hang up his cell phone in the airport.

Konerko05
07-27-2009, 04:42 PM
I wouldn't hold him untouchable but that is just me. He isn't having some Ryan Braun going to be one of the best in the game rookie seasons. Hes a solid rookie reason which projects to 365 at bats 65 rbis 10 homers and an 800 ops. In a 500 AB season that translates to like 14 homers and 88 rbis. Very nice, but hardly untouchable. I expect him to improve, tremenedously, am I in no way saying he is capped, but what I am saying is I don't think hes ever going to be the best player on a team. Halladay would be the best pitcher on about 27 other staffs

I'd say 14 homeruns and 88 RBIs as a 22 year old is very impressive. His power will improve. A 22 year old already capable of batting .300 is a pretty rare commodity if you ask me.

Anyways, I would like to see Beckham moved back to SS in the near future. If the Sox do not see him as a SS, then he should be moved to 2B. His bat at 3B will be good, but his bat in the middle infield will be extremely valuable.

I may be getting ahead of myself here, but I think Beckham can have a Derek Jeter type offensive career.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2009, 04:42 PM
In terms of not knowing what to get in return, that I agree with. If the Cards offered Albert or the Giants offer Lincecum, I would do it in a heartbeat. However, neither team is going to do that, so it's a waste of air space even talking about it.

As for Walker, the Cowboys were in shambles at the time, and Johnson wanted to clean house. Most people, including my 12-year-old self, thought the Vikings were insane trading all they did for Walker, who wasn't even the best back in the league at the time. Sure, he was a solid back, but hardly had the explosiveness of a Barry Sanders or was an all around back like Neal Anderson. The Cowboys had nothing to lose. They were ****ty with Walker. Johnson wanted to build a new team from stratch, and got plenty of pieces to do so. The rest is history, as we know.

Well by that logic is this whole thread in the first place pointless. Saying someone is untouchable unless we get a certain package makes no sense. He by definition is "touchable."

Every player technically is untouchable unless you get the right package in return. This obviously varies from person to person. DeWayne Wise is untouchable unless you get a good bucket of balls.

If people make the argument that they would only trade Beckham for a lot fine...I agree with that. But to declare anyone untouchable makes no sense to me and I am glad KW will always listen to offers for anyone. There may be a GM out there that sees the same potential we see and is willing to give up the farm...you just never know.

Of course you only make a trade if the perceived value you get back is equal or greater than what you perceive to give up. Chances are the Sox perceived value for Beckham is greater than what another team would offer so chances are you will never trade him. I guess the fact that there is a entire thread dedicated to this very simple point of logic seems superfluous to me. By calling out an admittedly hyperbolic example in which the "Beckham is untradeable" dogma makes no sense I had hoped to point this out.

Beckham may be my favorite player on the Sox right now. I love watching him play and was a fan since I saw him play in the CWS. That being said I would never call anyone untouchable.

BadBobbyJenks
07-27-2009, 04:57 PM
Untouchable? Didn't KW more or less say the same about McCarthy? I hope he stays right here...

Why are people comparing Beckham to McCarthy? Beckham is in the majors within one year and already producing at a high level.

Beckham is untouchable because any deal that you can come up with in which you would deal him is never going to happen.

areilly
07-28-2009, 12:30 PM
Beckham is untouchable because any deal that you can come up with in which you would deal him is never going to happen.

No, that's why Beckham is immovable. Untouchable means something else.

doublem23
07-28-2009, 12:57 PM
Why are people comparing Beckham to McCarthy? Beckham is in the majors within one year and already producing at a high level.

FWIW, McCarthy was a high school pitcher, but he was a year younger than Bacon when he made his MLB debut, and though hindsight reveals the McCarthy deal was a great one for the Sox, there was outrage around here and all across Sox fandom when KW dealt Brandon. He looked very promising in his 1st season.

I doubt Beckham will get dealt, but you can never say never with KW.

Bobby Thigpen
07-28-2009, 01:02 PM
If the Cardinals offered Puljos for Beckham,.
:hawk
"Where's he gonna play?"

BadBobbyJenks
07-28-2009, 01:24 PM
No, that's why Beckham is immovable. Untouchable means something else.


Well now you are pretty much arguing semantics. There is no realistic trade scenario where Beckham gets moved so I would call that untouchable.

areilly
07-28-2009, 01:45 PM
Well now you are pretty much arguing semantics. There is no realistic trade scenario where Beckham gets moved so I would call that untouchable.

Better players than Beckham have been traded by smarter GMs while their clubs were in better positions. It's not unrealistic.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-28-2009, 01:57 PM
Better players than Beckham have been traded by smarter GMs while their clubs were in better positions. It's not unrealistic.

That may or may not be true, but Beckham isn't being traded. There may be smarter GMs than KW, but KW is not stupid.

BadBobbyJenks
07-28-2009, 03:38 PM
Better players than Beckham have been traded by smarter GMs while their clubs were in better positions. It's not unrealistic.

Name a couple of big time prospects who were already producing at the major league level in their first season that were traded. Off the top of my head, I cant think of anyone.

...
07-28-2009, 03:47 PM
Name a couple of big time prospects who were already producing at the major league level in their first season that were traded. Off the top of my head, I cant think of anyone.

Sheffield, however the Brewers really had no other choice.

eriqjaffe
07-28-2009, 03:59 PM
Sheffield, however the Brewers really had no other choice.I didn't realize until I looked it up that Jose Valentin was involved in that trade...

Frater Perdurabo
07-28-2009, 05:04 PM
We have established he cannot be dealt before August 12.

To be traded in August, he would have to clear waivers.

He would most certainly be claimed and would not clear waivers.

So practically the soonest he could be dealt is after the World Series.