PDA

View Full Version : *Official* 7-25 Welcome to the Asylum Post Game Thread


illini81887
07-25-2009, 06:25 PM
edit jenks

Mod Edit: Nice language filter violation on the first post of the thread. Just say the word next time and let the filter do the work.

dakotasox
07-25-2009, 06:26 PM
**** Jenks. His is single-handedly killing this team.

JB98
07-25-2009, 06:26 PM
I'm sorely disappointed in this entire team.

Whitesoxfan23
07-25-2009, 06:26 PM
Is it okay to start worrying about Jenks now?

october23sp
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
**** jenks. His is single-handedly killing this team.

+1.

hi im skot
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
Forget Buehrle owing the team steak dinners; Jenks owes the team the entire goddamn buffet.

Horrible.

1989
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
Did the Tigers hit a ball hard the whole day?

Pear-Zin-Ski
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
absolutely terrible...should've had at least two more runs and Gavin should've had a win....

Congrats AJ (up until the tenth that is....)

Gavin
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
Jenks sucks. Bring back Poreda so Thornton can close.

Harry Potter
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
What a difference a few days means....

Can't pin this completely on Bobby.

Our offense, or rather lack thereof, is doing us in.

Game of your live tomorrow Clayton.... :(:

mccoydp
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
Gotta win tomorrow to lessen the blow from this series. Geez.

TheOldRoman
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
edit jenksYes, three runs a game and 7 runs across 3 games is completely respectable. If our pitching can't shut them out, we deserve to lose.

KnightSox
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
It hurts to give 'em away like that. Again.

ViPeRx007
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
Is it okay to start worrying about Jenks now?

You mean you haven't up until today?

october23sp
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
Is it okay to start worrying about Jenks now?

I honestly think it's time to forget about him and get a closer.

illini81887
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
Tomorrow is about as much MUST WIN, as you can get. Time for Clayton Richard to show what he has

35th and Shields
07-25-2009, 06:27 PM
It's time to get another GOOD arm in the bullpen, and please not from Kansas City.

Chicken Dinner
07-25-2009, 06:28 PM
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2007/11/16-22/train_wreck-782867.jpg

Pear-Zin-Ski
07-25-2009, 06:28 PM
**** Jenks. His is single-handedly killing this team.

If he threw offspeed stuff like he did in the 8th we wouldn't be in this situation....

GoGoCrede
07-25-2009, 06:28 PM
This is on Jenks, yes, but the offense too.

This one stings.

PeoriaSoxFan
07-25-2009, 06:28 PM
I don't know what is worse the bullpen or the offense as of late.

TheOldRoman
07-25-2009, 06:29 PM
Good to see the return of the degenerate blowhards saying "**** you" to a player for having a bad game. Why are these low lives not saying "**** you" to the offense that has been horrible for the majority of the year. Oh wait, just days ago we were a powerhouse.

Konerko05
07-25-2009, 06:29 PM
Horrible pitch to Granderson with an 0-2 count.

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2009, 06:29 PM
What a difference a few days means....

Can't pin this completely on Bobby.

Our offense, or rather lack thereof, is doing us in.

Game of your live tomorrow Clayton.... :(:


So when can we start?

This is getting old. The guy sucks right now.

We scored 3 runs against their allstar pitcher, should be plenty when our starter only allows 2.


CLOSE A DAMN GAME :angry:

Whitesoxfan23
07-25-2009, 06:29 PM
You mean you haven't up until today?


I was being sarcastic, because whenever someone has said something negative about Jenks, they usually have been roasted by some...

october23sp
07-25-2009, 06:29 PM
I don't know what is worse the bullpen or the offense as of late.

Bullpen, our offense did enough to win today.

soulfly
07-25-2009, 06:29 PM
We need a closer. Jenks is utterly terrible. I can't stand watching him attempt to pitch.

Viva Medias B's
07-25-2009, 06:29 PM
It's time to remove Jenks as closer, at least on an interim basis until he can prove he can get men out.
Where is our killer instinct? It seems that we whenever we get ahead recently, we just lolly-gag along and hope we hang on to win.
It's time to start approaching these games as if we want to win the AL Central.

Chicken Dinner
07-25-2009, 06:30 PM
I don't know what is worse the bullpen or the offense as of late.

The offense at least came back and took the lead, the bullpen once again couldn't keep it.

Konerko05
07-25-2009, 06:30 PM
I don't know what is worse the bullpen or the offense as of late.

Bullpen by far. It is a disaster.

Viva Medias B's
07-25-2009, 06:30 PM
Bullpen, our offense did enough to win today.

The offense could have done more, like not hitting into how many double plays today?

Whitesoxfan23
07-25-2009, 06:30 PM
So when can we start?

This is getting old. The guy sucks right now.

We scored 3 runs against their allstar pitcher, should be plenty when our starter only allows 2.


CLOSE A DAMN GAME :angry:


Exactly. I'm tired of people making excuses for him. It's his job as a closer to protect the lead, and he isn't getting it done. Yeah he was great in the past, yada yada yada, but he isn't getting the job done now, while were in a tight race.

Gavin
07-25-2009, 06:30 PM
Good to see the return of the degenerate blowhards saying "**** you" to a player for having a bad game. Why are these low lives not saying "**** you" to the offense that has been horrible for the majority of the year. Oh wait, just days ago we were a powerhouse.

Offense: Scored more runs than the other team.
Starting Pitching: Did its job, handed the game over to the BP with the win in line.
Jenks: Erased everything everyone else did.
Bullpen: Lost the game.

Don't be so obtuse.

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2009, 06:30 PM
Good to see the return of the degenerate blowhards saying "**** you" to a player for having a bad game. Why are these low lives not saying "**** you" to the offense that has been horrible for the majority of the year. Oh wait, just days ago we were a powerhouse.


The offense gets no pass, but also they have been facing some pretty damn good pitching here from TB and Det.


We have to close a damn game. Plain and Simple. That's baseball.

JB98
07-25-2009, 06:31 PM
It's time to remove Jenks as closer, at least on an interim basis until he can prove he can get men out.
Where is our killer instinct? It seems that we whenever we get ahead recently, we just lolly-gag along and hope we hang on to win.
It's time to start approaching these games as if we want to win the AL Central.


It's not that the Sox don't want to win. They just aren't very good. Look at their record. 50-48. Mediocre team.

MarkZ35
07-25-2009, 06:31 PM
Our offense hasn't been great lately but they did do enough today. If you can't win low scoring games you won't make the playoffs. I'm not throwing Jenks under the bus yet but I'm all in favor of a platoon closer til we can get somebody that wants to step up and close out a game for once.

1989
07-25-2009, 06:31 PM
This one is all on Jenks. When the count is 0-2 and there are 2 outs, you ****ing put the hitter away. Put him ****ing away. You know with a curve ball in the dirt or a changeup out of the zone. Change speeds. Does anyone believe that if we were in the Tiger's situation: 0-2, 2 outs, tying run on 3rd, that we capitalize? Absolutely not. Because the good pitchers out there throw a wipeout pitch and the game is over. ****ing Jenks. You have lost all confidence in me and most of this fanbase. Way to blow a golden opportunity to get to 1 GB.

PeoriaSoxFan
07-25-2009, 06:32 PM
If we are going to suck and not win this thing this year, then please show it in the next few days, so Kenny can sell and not buy. (I am still upset about the Brandon Allen trade). Tomorrow's game is huge. Could be 2 back or 4 back, heading into the hell hole garbage bag stadium.

KnightSox
07-25-2009, 06:32 PM
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2007/11/16-22/train_wreck-782867.jpgIs that Jenks or Bruce Wolf?

fuzzy_patters
07-25-2009, 06:32 PM
What's up with Ramirez? They hit a slow roller to the left side, and Ramirez can't get there. Then, the camera panned away to show Ramirez shading the next hitter up the middle to hold the runner on second. They hit a grounder up the middle, and Alexei somehow can't get there, either. Was he running in quicksand?

Viva Medias B's
07-25-2009, 06:33 PM
is that jenks or bruce wolf?

Shut up and drive to work!!!!

october23sp
07-25-2009, 06:33 PM
Is that Jenks or Bruce Wolf?


See how it bulgers out in the center? Dead giveaway that it's Jenks.

soxfanreggie
07-25-2009, 06:33 PM
I think it's time to give Bobby a few days off and to use Thornton to close out the next few games. Only use Bobby in dire circumstances and then try to give him an unpressured couple of innings to work his way through this.

Dick Allen
07-25-2009, 06:33 PM
Sox hitting line drives at people, Tigers hitting broken-bat seeing-eye hits. I turned it off after the 9th, I've seen this ******* movie before. The baseball gods can kiss my derriere.

35th and Shields
07-25-2009, 06:33 PM
It's not that the Sox don't want to win. They just aren't very good. Look at their record. 50-48. Mediocre team.

Detroit, Minnesota....their mediocre too.

There is no excuse to lose these types of games.

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2009, 06:34 PM
It's time to remove Jenks as closer, at least on an interim basis until he can prove he can get men out.
Where is our killer instinct? It seems that we whenever we get ahead recently, we just lolly-gag along and hope we hang on to win.
It's time to start approaching these games as if we want to win the AL Central.



Cant do it.

If he was the only problem there, yes do it. But putting Thornton in there further weakens a middle reliefe staff which is very suspect and thin right now.



Jenks has to get his **** together or this can get away from us very quickly.


4 games now on the loss column and Clayton Richard on the mound tomorrow.


Lord help us!

Woofer
07-25-2009, 06:34 PM
Ed farmer has mentioned it a few times, they are stealing signs, or have lights signaling them somehow. Pods has been caught stealing twice on pitchouts. They are getting signs somehow. 31-15 at home and way, way under .500 on the road.

ViPeRx007
07-25-2009, 06:34 PM
I was being sarcastic, because whenever someone has said something negative about Jenks, they usually have been roasted by some...

Yea I know you were, I was being semi-sarcastic myself.

I mainly think that Jenks needs to just move out of the closer role for a while. Let him pitch some blowouts (lol...like those ever happen) or early relief to get his mojo back.

PeoriaSoxFan
07-25-2009, 06:34 PM
I am going to stop crying and whining and hope for better luck tomorrow night. Keep the faith.

Pear-Zin-Ski
07-25-2009, 06:35 PM
one question...what is a closer's job? Wanna know why we don't see Bobby come in when we are up by 4? BECAUSE ITS HIS JOB TO C-L-O-S-E A GAME!

If the Sox want to win the AL Central in 2009 they need SOMEONE to win these tight games...in fact anyone have stats on the Sox in one run games this year?

Noneck
07-25-2009, 06:36 PM
Ed farmer has mentioned it a few times, they are stealing signs, or have lights signaling them somehow. Pods has been caught stealing twice on pitchouts. They are getting signs somehow. 31-15 at home and way, way under .500 on the road.

Interesting stuff

LoveYourSuit
07-25-2009, 06:36 PM
Ed farmer has mentioned it a few times, they are stealing signs, or have lights signaling them somehow. Pods has been caught stealing twice on pitchouts. They are getting signs somehow. 31-15 at home and way, way under .500 on the road.


:scratch:Last time I checked Pods is free to steal a base whenver he wants. He is not looking for signs to steal a base.

Farmer is high.

35th and Shields
07-25-2009, 06:36 PM
one question...what is a closer's job? Wanna know why we don't see bobby come in when we are up by 4? Because its his job to c-l-o-s-e a game!

If the sox want to win the al central in 2009 they need someone to win these tight games...in fact anyone have stats on the sox in one run games this year?

12-16

Pear-Zin-Ski
07-25-2009, 06:36 PM
Ed farmer has mentioned it a few times, they are stealing signs, or have lights signaling them somehow. Pods has been caught stealing twice on pitchouts. They are getting signs somehow. 31-15 at home and way, way under .500 on the road.

Something is up when the pitcher throws high enough to have the catcher already standing by the time he throws to second....

Craig Grebeck
07-25-2009, 06:36 PM
Ed farmer has mentioned it a few times, they are stealing signs, or have lights signaling them somehow. Pods has been caught stealing twice on pitchouts. They are getting signs somehow. 31-15 at home and way, way under .500 on the road.
Stealing signs is part of the game. Don't go all conspiracy theory on us and say they're "flashing lights." Do you really think in this day and age -- cameras everywhere, sports treated as life and death -- that a ballclub could flash lights and get away with it?

BoysMom3
07-25-2009, 06:37 PM
Well that sucked. I really, really thought we had that game. I hated listening to Mark Grace. So annoying. And I hope that guy with the shiner goes to see a doctor.

soxfandy
07-25-2009, 06:37 PM
Offense: Scored more runs than the other team.
Starting Pitching: Did its job, handed the game over to the BP with the win in line.
Jenks: Erased everything everyone else did.
Bullpen: Lost the game.

Don't be so obtuse.


Perfectly said. When the closer comes in it is supposed to be game over in a good way. When Jenks comes in lately it is game over in a bad way. Guillen needs to swallow his pride and take jenks out of the closer role. His era is going to reach 5 pretty soon!!! Everybody needs to stop making excuses for jenks. He is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE right now.

1989
07-25-2009, 06:37 PM
Cant do it.

If he was the only problem there, yes do it. But putting Thornton in there further weakens a middle reliefe staff which is very suspect and thin right now.



Jenks has to get his **** together or this can get away from us very quickly.


4 games now on the loss column and Clayton Richard on the mound tomorrow.


Lord help us!

Then you have to make a move for Sherill. And either put him or Thornton at closer's role. And demote Bobby to the middle of the bullpen. What does he not understand that his curveball is the best pitch he has?

TomParrish79
07-25-2009, 06:37 PM
Sucks that Jenks blew a win for Floyd.

I don't think tomorrow is a must win though, sure it would put us 4 games behind if we get swept but there are 63 games left in the season after tomorrow. And ALOT can happen.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 06:37 PM
:scratch:Last time I checked Pods is free to steal a base whenver he wants. He is not looking for signs to steal a base.

Farmer is high.

I believe the last one today was a hitn run when pods got caught.

Craig Grebeck
07-25-2009, 06:37 PM
:scratch:Last time I checked Pods is free to steal a base whenver he wants. He is not looking for signs to steal a base.

Farmer is high.
So you're saying he never gets a signal to steal? Not true.

Viva Medias B's
07-25-2009, 06:37 PM
Stealing signs is part of the game. Don't go all conspiracy theory on us and say they're "flashing lights." Do you really think in this day and age -- cameras everywhere, sports treated as life and death -- that a ballclub could flash lights and get away with it?

We were the masters of stealing signs when Joe Nossek was on the White Sox bench.

TheOldRoman
07-25-2009, 06:38 PM
Offense: Scored more runs than the other team.
Starting Pitching: Did its job, handed the game over to the BP with the win in line.
Jenks: Erased everything everyone else did.
Bullpen: Lost the game.

Don't be so obtuse.Yesterday Verlander had an off day. His velocity was down for most of the game and he couldn't locate. That didn't stop the Sox offense from being terrible. But it was okay because he is normally a really good pitcher. Last night we faced a horrible pitcher, let him go 7, and all we could push across was 3 runs. I guess he was due and will compete for Cy Youngs. The offense was terrible again today, but once again, it wasn't their fault.

If you think seven runs across three games is respectable, you are being obtuse. The offense which was "on fire" last week is horrible again, like it was most of the year. But its okay. The bullpen has been struggling, but this loss is every bit as much on the offense as on them.

As for Bobby, he was bad again, but he goes through these periods every year, and he will be fine. Oh, and he wasn't the one who gave up the winning run without recording an out.

My rift is more with the morons yelling "**** you" to a player. That shouldn't be done to any player on your team in any situation. There are some real slimeballs on here.

JB98
07-25-2009, 06:38 PM
Detroit, Minnesota....their mediocre too.

There is no excuse to lose these types of games.

But mediocre ballclubs lose these types of games.

Mediocre clubs start the first inning by walking the leadoff hitter and committing an error on the second batter of the game.

Mediocre clubs groove fastballs on 0-2 when they are one strike away form victory.

Mediocre clubs make three errors in the opener of a crucial four-game set.

Mediocre clubs fail to get hits against Eddie Freakin' Bonine.

Mediocre clubs walk in the go-ahead run in the bottom of the eighth inning.

This White Sox team beats itself a lot. If they would stop that, they'd probably make the playoffs. But after 98 games, it's hard to believe things will be any different the rest of the season.

hawkjt
07-25-2009, 06:38 PM
Cannot figure out why Bobby did not go with the big breaking ball on 0-2 to Granderson...fastball down the middle? Just have to make them get themselves out on at least one pitch with the game on the line.

Brutal time for the offense to go quiet and the bullpen to go soft.
Nice job by Gavin.
Seems like if Beckham does not make it happen lately, Sox do not score...when he does, they do. Today he came thru once, had a couple of good at bats and Scotty was good, but Alexei,JD,Thome,Carlos and PK are all in a funk all of a sudden..cept for JD's homer yesterday.

AJ,Beckham,Getz and Pods did their job today.
Go get them tomorrow nite...and move on to minny.

Brian26
07-25-2009, 06:38 PM
Horrible pitch to Granderson with an 0-2 count.

The only problem with Jenks (and I've been saying this for the last two years) is that he's scared to death of throwing a curve ball with anyone on 2nd or 3rd base, which makes him a one-pitch pitcher in certain situations.

MarkZ35
07-25-2009, 06:39 PM
Ed farmer has mentioned it a few times, they are stealing signs, or have lights signaling them somehow. Pods has been caught stealing twice on pitchouts. They are getting signs somehow. 31-15 at home and way, way under .500 on the road.
I doubt it but I wouldn't be surprised because of how much better they have played at home. There not a fast team yet they are winning in a very spacious park. Maybe the Sox should look into this. This could be what is screwing Magglio up, the little lights in his eye while he is batting.

PhillipsBubba
07-25-2009, 06:40 PM
Guys....guys....guys...don't you remember what the greatest manager in Sox history told you...if you don't like Jenks being the closer...don't watch or attend the goddamn games...

The Sox don't need any talent additions...just ask OG...

What a pathetic display this weekend...

Golly gee...lets get 'em tomorrow

GoGoCrede
07-25-2009, 06:40 PM
Sucks that Jenks blew a win for Floyd.

I don't think tomorrow is a must win though, sure it would put us 4 games behind if we get swept but there are 63 games left in the season after tomorrow. And ALOT can happen.

I'm disappointed that Floyd didn't get the win too. Unfortunately that's the least of our worries. :(:

I can't believe we're in the damn Dump again next week. Luckily the Twins have been playing poorly too.

beasly213
07-25-2009, 06:40 PM
Jesus everyone calm the **** down. If the Sox win tomorrow they are 2 games out of first and it isn't even August yet. Teams go through ups and downs all year and the Sox are no exception.

And to think I was called a dark cloud back when I wasn't kissing Ozzie and Kenny's Ass in the "Thank You Kenny and Ozzie Thread"

Brian26
07-25-2009, 06:41 PM
Is that Jenks or Bruce Wolf?

:thumbsup: Nice

Viva Medias B's
07-25-2009, 06:41 PM
But mediocre ballclubs lose these types of games.

Mediocre clubs start the first inning by walking the leadoff hitter and committing an error on the second batter of the game.

Mediocre clubs groove fastballs on 0-2 when they are one strike away form victory.

Mediocre clubs make three errors in the opener of a crucial four-game set.

Mediocre clubs fail to get hits against Eddie Freakin' Bonine.

Mediocre clubs walk in the go-ahead run in the bottom of the eighth inning.

This White Sox team beats itself a lot. If they would stop that, they'd probably make the playoffs. But after 98 games, it's hard to believe things will be any different the rest of the season.

Well said. If we think we're just going to waltz into the playoffs playing like this, we're kidding ourselves.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2009, 06:41 PM
This has been a problem for two years now, the bullpen is stellar in the first half and completely falls apart in the second half. The bullpen hasn't been consistent since '05 (although it was consistently bad in '07 I suppose).

Dick Allen
07-25-2009, 06:42 PM
Can't wait for the series in the Garbage Dome. **** me.:angry:

BleacherBandit
07-25-2009, 06:42 PM
Yea I know you were, I was being semi-sarcastic myself.

I mainly think that Jenks needs to just move out of the closer role for a while. Let him pitch some blowouts (lol...like those ever happen) or early relief to get his mojo back.

I'm pretty sure that is a situation that Jenks can't improve from going through. He's not good in non-pressure situations, as we have seen before.

chisoxfanatic
07-25-2009, 06:43 PM
I think it's time to give Bobby a few days off and to use Thornton to close out the next few games. Only use Bobby in dire circumstances and then try to give him an unpressured couple of innings to work his way through this.
That's exactly what I've been thinking for the past week and a half. Bobby can't pitch any 1-2-3 innings! He just has to get himself into jams that he can't seem to get out of.

Yea, he was great and helped win us a World Series...but, what is he doing NOW?!?! This ****ing sucks!

The only thing I have confidence in right now are our starters. It's like they have to pitch flawlessly and each get complete games, or Bobby will either make things interesting or blow the whole thing.

Chicken Dinner
07-25-2009, 06:44 PM
64 regular season games to go.

Brian26
07-25-2009, 06:44 PM
Ed farmer has mentioned it a few times, they are stealing signs, or have lights signaling them somehow. Pods has been caught stealing twice on pitchouts. They are getting signs somehow. 31-15 at home and way, way under .500 on the road.

Everyone in the park knew Pods was stealing on that 1-0 count, and Laird has one of the best arms in the business. I think that was just a good call by Leyland there.

GoGoCrede
07-25-2009, 06:44 PM
Jesus everyone calm the **** down. If the Sox win tomorrow they are 2 games out of first and it isn't even August yet. Teams go through ups and downs all year and the Sox are no exception.

And to think I was called a dark cloud back when I wasn't kissing Ozzie and Kenny's Ass in the "Thank You Kenny and Ozzie Thread"

I respect your optimism, friend. :smile:

And this thread title is hilarious.

MarkZ35
07-25-2009, 06:46 PM
Stealing signs is part of the game. Don't go all conspiracy theory on us and say they're "flashing lights." Do you really think in this day and age -- cameras everywhere, sports treated as life and death -- that a ballclub could flash lights and get away with it?
Stealing signs and flashing are a big difference. It's different if a guy on second is showing a signal to the hitter that he picks up because both teams can do that. But to have a light flashed is unfair to a home team is very much cheating because it only benefits the home team.

Somewhat similar to what I think the Red Sox got in trouble for a few years ago because they had a TV only in the their bullpen. MLB made them remove it because they said the home team would have a much better idea of the strike zone before coming in to the game than the away team would. I'm not sure if it was the Red Sox but I remember it a few years ago. Like I said before I doubt the Tigers are even doing this but I guess you never know.

Blueprint1
07-25-2009, 06:46 PM
This group better stop sitting back on leads. Once we take a lead it seems like we stop trying. If we don't start hitting we will be looking at 3rd place. The bullpen sucks and the hitting sucks right now. I am allowed to be mad.

cws05champ
07-25-2009, 06:46 PM
I didn't see the game but I couldn't believe it when I saw Jenks blow it again. We should be tied for first right now instead of three games down. :angry:

I knew there would be some flatness to this club after the perfect game, but we have to win tomorrow now...no excuses.

Does anyone think Nunez or Link could contribute to middle relief so Thornton could close? Seem like grasping at straws but we can't continue like this.

Konerko05
07-25-2009, 06:46 PM
Remember a couple years ago when Jenks would get a guy 0-2 and he would snap off a tight breaking curveball? The hitter would know it was coming, but he still couldn't do anything with it. I miss those days.

1989
07-25-2009, 06:46 PM
Jesus everyone calm the **** down. If the Sox win tomorrow they are 2 games out of first and it isn't even August yet. Teams go through ups and downs all year and the Sox are no exception.

And to think I was called a dark cloud back when I wasn't kissing Ozzie and Kenny's Ass in the "Thank You Kenny and Ozzie Thread"

I would calm the **** down if this team stopped choking and losing crucial games to division leaders. The past two games against the Tigers, especially this one, should have been wins. Period! Did you not learn the lesson last year about game 163? Win games you are supposed to win. This was one of them. The Sox are 0-40 when trailing after 8 innings. That means they are losing the games they are supposed to lose. The Sox have lost 2 games in the past week when leading after 8 innings. Is that getting the job done?

35th and Shields
07-25-2009, 06:47 PM
But mediocre ballclubs lose these types of games.

Mediocre clubs start the first inning by walking the leadoff hitter and committing an error on the second batter of the game.

Mediocre clubs groove fastballs on 0-2 when they are one strike away form victory.

Mediocre clubs make three errors in the opener of a crucial four-game set.

Mediocre clubs fail to get hits against Eddie Freakin' Bonine.

Mediocre clubs walk in the go-ahead run in the bottom of the eighth inning.

This White Sox team beats itself a lot. If they would stop that, they'd probably make the playoffs. But after 98 games, it's hard to believe things will be any different the rest of the season.

I'm right with you in your frustration but Detroit's not perfect team either..

They're going to go through a tough stretch and all the above with happen to them.

I think we are Bailey or Sherill away from winning this division

hawkjt
07-25-2009, 06:47 PM
Everyone in the park knew Pods was stealing on that 1-0 count, and Laird has one of the best arms in the business. I think that was just a good call by Leyland there.


Exactly, that is why I wish Pods had not gone...he ended up walking Alexei on 4 pitches. Everyone knew pods was going and only a pitchout would get him...too obvious.

1989
07-25-2009, 06:48 PM
Remember a couple years ago when Jenks would get a guy 0-2 and he would snap off a tight breaking curveball? The hitter would know it was coming, but he still couldn't do anything with it. I miss those days.

I would like to know the BAA on Jenks' fastball vs. Jenks' curveball.

beasly213
07-25-2009, 06:49 PM
I would calm the **** down if this team stopped choking and losing crucial games to division leaders. The past two games against the Tigers, especially this one, should have been wins. Period! Did you not learn the lesson last year about game 163? Win games you are supposed to win. This was one of them. The Sox are 0-40 when trailing after 8 innings. That means they are losing the games they are supposed to lose. The Sox have lost 2 games in the past week when leading after 8 innings. Is that getting the job done?

It's a long season relax. If the Sox win 4 in a row after this I'm sure people will forget about this series. The Sox will have ups and downs. Don't get too high or too low and you will have a much more enjoyable experience.

And don't expect this team to be more than what it is.... A Mediocre team in a bad division. Once you learn to accept the fact that this isn't a 90+ win team you will become much less frustrated.

PushinWeight
07-25-2009, 06:50 PM
Why can't we beat the pathetic tigers anymore? Jenks does not pitch in close games anymore until he learns how to pitch again. Thorton is the closer for now. Our season depends on it.

Tomorrow is a must win.

DickAllen72
07-25-2009, 06:50 PM
What a difference a few days means....

Can't pin this completely on Bobby.

Our offense, or rather lack thereof, is doing us in.


Thank you.

hawkjt
07-25-2009, 06:50 PM
I'm right with you in your frustration but Detroit's not perfect team either..

They're going to go through a tough stretch and all the above with happen to them.

I think we are Bailey or Sherill away from winning this division


The tigers were 1-5 post allstar break when we came in on Friday..they are in a major offensive funk...which is why it is a shame to see them beat us with a handful of ducksnort singles and errors.

Harry Potter
07-25-2009, 06:50 PM
http://crazyopinions.com/__oneclick_uploads/2007/09/remain_calm.jpg


Well, it was worth a shot... :(:

SoxGirl4Life
07-25-2009, 06:50 PM
Is it safe to come into the post game thread yet? :cower:

JB98
07-25-2009, 06:50 PM
I'm right with you in your frustration but Detroit's not perfect team either..

They're going to go through a tough stretch and all the above with happen to them.

I think we are Bailey or Sherill away from winning this division

Detroit *was* going through a tough stretch until the Sox came to town and handed them three games.

These are two-game swings, all of them. The Sox are missing opportunities that they won't get again. I can live with the loss in the opener yesterday. Maybe a little perfect game hangover and too much Justin Verlander.

But last night and this afternoon were epic failures. I'm sorely disappointed in the performance of the whole team, not just Bobby Jenks.

ViPeRx007
07-25-2009, 06:50 PM
I'm pretty sure that is a situation that Jenks can't improve from going through. He's not good in non-pressure situations, as we have seen before.

I guess, but it gets kind of tough to let a guy work through his struggles when the game, nay, the division, is on the line.

I realize there is still time to catch the Tigers...again...but it still stings.

chisoxfanatic
07-25-2009, 06:51 PM
Is it safe to come into the post game thread yet? :cower:
As long as you have Bobby with you, you should be safe. :angry:

GoGoCrede
07-25-2009, 06:52 PM
Is it safe to come into the post game thread yet? :cower:

Bring your hard hat. And your popcorn.

hawkjt
07-25-2009, 06:55 PM
For what it is worth, I thought Bobby looked better than the other day.
He threw strikes, and he did hit 97 on the radar. No ball was hit really hard off him til grandersons...broken bat crap otherwise.

Patrick134
07-25-2009, 06:56 PM
This series is not that big, no matter what happened this weekend, the outcome will be decided after this. The tigers road record is horrible, they'll fall back on the next road trip and fall out of it quickly.

chisoxfanatic
07-25-2009, 06:56 PM
There is ONE week until Bears training camp starts! ONE WEEK!

Craig Grebeck
07-25-2009, 06:57 PM
Stealing signs and flashing are a big difference. It's different if a guy on second is showing a signal to the hitter that he picks up because both teams can do that. But to have a light flashed is unfair to a home team is very much cheating because it only benefits the home team.

Somewhat similar to what I think the Red Sox got in trouble for a few years ago because they had a TV only in the their bullpen. MLB made them remove it because they said the home team would have a much better idea of the strike zone before coming in to the game than the away team would. I'm not sure if it was the Red Sox but I remember it a few years ago. Like I said before I doubt the Tigers are even doing this but I guess you never know.
Re-read my post. I wasn't condoning it -- just saying it's probably impossible.

What's so troubling about Bobby is that his velocity is up across the board -- the highest since 2006, in fact. Still down from 2005 though.

JB98
07-25-2009, 06:57 PM
For what it is worth, I thought Bobby looked better than the other day.
He threw strikes, and he did hit 97 on the radar. No ball was hit really hard off him til grandersons...broken bat crap otherwise.

He only threw one bad pitch, but boy, it was a bad pitch.

Soxman219
07-25-2009, 06:57 PM
I don't care how we do it, I just want a win tomorrow.

SoxGirl4Life
07-25-2009, 06:58 PM
As long as you have Bobby with you, you should be safe. :angry:

I'm WAY smarter than that! :D:
Bring your hard hat. And your popcorn.
Do I get to throw the popcorn at Bobby?

chisoxfanatic
07-25-2009, 06:58 PM
This series is not that big, no matter what happened this weekend, the outcome will be decided after this. The tigers road record is horrible, they'll fall back on the next road trip and fall out of it quickly.
ANY series against a divisional foe is a "big" one! Each of these games are two-game swings. They are twice as big as any non-divisional game, and you can't guarantee anything will happen after this.

And, in case you weren't aware, if this gets to a 163rd game, home field advantage for that game is now determined by the season series, which we now trail by three games.

Konerko05
07-25-2009, 07:02 PM
Re-read my post. I wasn't condoning it -- just saying it's probably impossible.

What's so troubling about Bobby is that his velocity is up across the board -- the highest since 2006, in fact. Still down from 2005 though.

His breaking stuff is almost nonexistent.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 07:02 PM
ANY series against a divisional foe is a "big" one! Each of these games are two-game swings. They are twice as big as any non-divisional game, and you can't guarantee anything will happen after this.

And, in case you weren't aware, if this gets to a 163rd game, home field advantage for that game is now determined by the season series, which we now trail by three games.

You are correct. Today was biggest game of year so far. Tomorrow now becomes even bigger.

Patrick134
07-25-2009, 07:03 PM
He only threw one bad pitch, but boy, it was a bad pitch.

Granderson strikes out over 150 times a year, throwing a strike , unless it was a sharp curve ball, on 0-2 was insane.

Milkman43
07-25-2009, 07:04 PM
Bobby missed his spot to Granderson by 10 inches. Throw the hammer that froze guillen in the eighth in we walk away happy.

Patrick134
07-25-2009, 07:04 PM
You are correct. Today was biggest game of year so far. Tomorrow now becomes even bigger.


Big games ? Maybe. But we're a long way from anything near do or die time.

Lip Man 1
07-25-2009, 07:05 PM
Patrick:

The White Sox are staring at the schedule from hell the next month. If you think pissing away games in the 9th inning isn't important or crucial than I'd like to know what type of games qualify as "important" to you.

----------------

The game wasn't on in the area and about 5:45 MST I flicked on the scoreboard option from DirectTV and saw the final...the very first thing that shot through my mind was, 'I wonder if they blew a late lead?'

You can flush all the momentum from winning 5 of 7 at home and a perfect game right down the toilet.

And yes they are back to leaving guys on base, scoring 24 runs in your last eight games is a problem.

Ozzie was right, everytime you want to give your heart to this particular club they let you down.

Lip

chisoxfanatic
07-25-2009, 07:05 PM
Big games ? Maybe. But we're a long way from anything near do or die time.
That doesn't matter. You win the games you should win, especially the ones you're leading extremely late in the game! These are the types of games that will come back to bite us in the butt at the end if we come up short by a game or two or three!

Noneck
07-25-2009, 07:06 PM
Big games ? Maybe. But we're a long way from anything near do or die time.
The more of the big ones you lose, the closer you get to the do or die one.

Patrick134
07-25-2009, 07:08 PM
Patrick:

The White Sox are staring at the schedule from hell the next month. If you think pissing away games in the 9th inning isn't important or crucial than I'd like to know what type of games qualify as "important" to you.

----------------

The game wasn't on in the area and about 5:45 MST I flicked on the scoreboard option from DirectTV and saw the final...the very first thing that shot through my mind was, 'I wonder if they blew a late lead?'

You can flush all the momentum from winning 5 of 7 at home and a perfect game right down the toilet.

And yes they are back to leaving guys on base, scoring 24 runs in your last eight games is a problem.

Ozzie was right, everytime you want to give your heart to this particular club they let you down.

Lip

The Tigers pissed away a few games this week too, as did the Twins. And there has never been momentum from a perfect game in baseball history. The guy who was perfect hasn't played since then.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 07:09 PM
The Tigers pissed away a few games this week too, as did the Twins.

Neither pissed away games to a division rival. No comparison.

ms620
07-25-2009, 07:09 PM
Like I said the other day, the closer position might ultimately be one of the primary reasons the Sox do not win the division. Yes Nathan blew another save...and look at where the Twins are now. Rodney did not blow the save last night against the Sox. Rodney did not give up a run in the top of the 10th today. Who has had a better career Jenks or Rodney? Obviously Jenks. But Rodney has extremely outplayed Bobby THIS season and that is really the difference in the division right now. Yes the offense should have scored more runs. Yes Carasco should have gotten at least 1 out. But if Bobby does his job all that doesnt matter. Closer is one of the most important positions on a baseball team. Bobby is not getting the job done right now. IT does not make you less of a Sox fan if you think Bobby is a huge concern. It also does not make you a better fan if you blindly stick by him b.c you like him or b.c of his past accomplishments. That doesnt make you a better fan, but a foolish one.

JB98
07-25-2009, 07:10 PM
His breaking stuff is almost nonexistent.

But he had *good* breaking stuff today. Curve to punch out Guillen, slider to punch out Raburn.

He got sloppy with his fastball to Granderson. Terrible, terrible location. Poor execution. Unacceptable, given what was on the line.

WhiteSox1989
07-25-2009, 07:10 PM
The Tigers are bad, and that's the only reason why I think we will win this division still.

We just need to take a deep breath, and settle down. Jenks needs to get his **** together. I know things will happen, and games will be blown, but this has been three times this week and he's blown two, and nearly blown another. I don't know what to say.

I went from the happiest Sox fan with an extra pep in my step, with perfection and being tied for first. And now this.

I'm at a loss for words. I don't want to bitch about Jenks, but this just isn't okay. We should be winning these games. The Sox are better than the Tigers. I believe that. Something needs to happen.

What I keep reminding myself is that at a certain point last year the Sox were 6 above the Twins. We know how that turned out. I'm not giving up on this team yet. Because like I said, they are better than every team in their division and I truly believe that.

Chicken Dinner
07-25-2009, 07:10 PM
The Tigers pissed away a few games this week too, as did the Twins. And there has never been momentum from a perfect game in baseball history. The guy who was perfect hasn't played since then.

But not to us. 1st place to 3 back in 2 days just sucks!

Patrick134
07-25-2009, 07:12 PM
The Sox can, and most likely will win this division. But to be honest I don't see any team that wins the central making much noise come playoff time anyway.

1989
07-25-2009, 07:12 PM
Neither pissed away games to a division rival. No comparison.

Which is what we always seem to do. Big game on the line, 1st place, divisional foe. Choke.

chisoxfanatic
07-25-2009, 07:13 PM
The Sox can, and most likely will win this division. But to be honest I don't see any team that wins the central making much noise come playoff time anyway.
I don't think so either. The Yankees will represent the AL in the World Series. And I'm sticking to that thought.

Brian26
07-25-2009, 07:13 PM
There is ONE week until Bears training camp starts! ONE WEEK!

**** the Bears, it's baseball season.

JB98
07-25-2009, 07:14 PM
The Sox can, and most likely will win this division. But to be honest I don't see any team that wins the central making much noise come playoff time anyway.

It's my opinion that the Sox beat themselves too many times to win the division. The last two games were gift-wrapped. That's a four-game swing right there.

The Sox should be up a game, with even reasonable execution. Instead, they are down three.

1989
07-25-2009, 07:14 PM
It's a long season relax. If the Sox win 4 in a row after this I'm sure people will forget about this series. The Sox will have ups and downs. Don't get too high or too low and you will have a much more enjoyable experience.

And don't expect this team to be more than what it is.... A Mediocre team in a bad division. Once you learn to accept the fact that this isn't a 90+ win team you will become much less frustrated.

Please, Please bump this thread and call me out if this happens. But if you think we are going to win tomorrow and then sweep the Twins out of the dome, I want some of what you are smoking.

Chicken Dinner
07-25-2009, 07:14 PM
I don't think so either. The Yankees will represent the AL in the World Series. And I'm sticking to that thought.

You watch too much ESPN! :D:

tsoxman
07-25-2009, 07:14 PM
I actually think that Jenks threw threw the ball much better today except the stupid pitch to Granderson. The other two hits were softies...

GoGoCrede
07-25-2009, 07:14 PM
I don't think so either. The Yankees will represent the AL in the World Series. And I'm sticking to that thought.

Barf. Can't wait.

Here's hoping the Dodgers finish 'em, if it comes down to the two of them.

chisoxfanatic
07-25-2009, 07:16 PM
Barf. Can't wait.

Here's hoping the Dodgers finish 'em, if it comes down to the two of them.
If it were Yankees/Dodgers, I'd be pulling for the Yankees. Sorry, but I cannot root for any team with Manny on it unless they were playing the Cubs or Red Sox.

Brian26
07-25-2009, 07:39 PM
It's not that the Sox don't want to win. They just aren't very good. Look at their record. 50-48. Mediocre team.

The only problem with looking at their record is that the record includes the results of a very mediocre April and May. The Sox are not the same ballclub they were for the first two months of the season. They now have a legitimate leadoff hitter. Their holes at 2nd and 3rd base have been filled. The middle of the order is now producing again, on pace with their career averages. The starting pitching has much improved. Quentin is back.

I think this team is better than mediocre and could advance in the playoffs. The number one priority right now is the bullpen, with the 5th starting spot being #2 on the list.

WhiteSox1989
07-25-2009, 07:51 PM
The only problem with looking at their record is that the record includes the results of a very mediocre April and May. The Sox are not the same ballclub they were for the first two months of the season. They now have a legitimate leadoff hitter. Their holes at 2nd and 3rd base have been filled. The middle of the order is now producing again, on pace with their career averages. The starting pitching has much improved. Quentin is back.

I think this team is better than mediocre and could advance in the playoffs. The number one priority right now is the bullpen, with the 5th starting spot being #2 on the list.

+1. I agree 100%. The Sox are playing MUCH better baseball than they were, especially in May. They were very streaky. But in June, they won basically every series.

The Sox will win this division IF Kenny tweaks the team up a bit. I think the Sox NEED another starter. I do not feel comfortable with the Richard/Colon/Garcia toss up.

Jenks needs to get his head out of hiss and I am positive he will.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2009, 07:53 PM
The only problem with looking at their record is that the record includes the results of a very mediocre April and May. The Sox are not the same ballclub they were for the first two months of the season. They now have a legitimate leadoff hitter. Their holes at 2nd and 3rd base have been filled. The middle of the order is now producing again, on pace with their career averages. The starting pitching has much improved. Quentin is back.

I think this team is better than mediocre and could advance in the playoffs. The number one priority right now is the bullpen, with the 5th starting spot being #2 on the list.

The Sox were a Jenks blown save away from sweeping the Rays. Their starters also have pitched three very good games against the Tigers. They should be riding a big winning streak right now. But this offense and bullpen are really underperforming right now.

JB98
07-25-2009, 07:53 PM
The only problem with looking at their record is that the record includes the results of a very mediocre April and May. The Sox are not the same ballclub they were for the first two months of the season. They now have a legitimate leadoff hitter. Their holes at 2nd and 3rd base have been filled. The middle of the order is now producing again, on pace with their career averages. The starting pitching has much improved. Quentin is back.

I think this team is better than mediocre and could advance in the playoffs. The number one priority right now is the bullpen, with the 5th starting spot being #2 on the list.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, Brian. They still make the same stupid mistakes that lose ballgames, and the toughest part of their schedule is still ahead.

During their hot streak, they feasted on Cleveland and collected series wins against bad NL Central clubs like Cincinnati, Milwaukee and the Cubs. They beat the Dodgers, which was good, but that was canceled out by foolishly giving away a couple games in Kansas City. They beat Tampa Bay, which was good, but they've undone all that with two awful losses in the last 24 hours here.

I suppose Detroit could implode the way Minnesota is imploding now, and the Sox could be beneficiaries. But there's nothing about this club that screams "championship contender" to me. They look like a team that is good enough to hang around in a crummy division. They will hang around, but I don't think they win.

I hate to be a negative ass. I mean, all last summer, I felt we would hang on for the division title and we did. But I just don't have that feeling this year at all.

Tragg
07-25-2009, 07:54 PM
It's my opinion that the Sox beat themselves too many times to win the division. The last two games were gift-wrapped. That's a four-game swing right there.

.
And 2 in Chicago against Detroit were giveaways.

JB98
07-25-2009, 07:56 PM
And 2 in Chicago against Detroit were giveaways.

The first game of the doubleheader in Chicago, especially.

Konerko05
07-25-2009, 08:07 PM
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, Brian. They still make the same stupid mistakes that lose ballgames, and the toughest part of their schedule is still ahead.

A problem like making stupid mistakes can be corrected. I'm more worried about the talent, but I still think the Sox are talented enough to win this division.

The offense now has a productive bottom and top of order, which is a huge improvement over the beginning of the season.

Getting the bullpen straightened out is going to be the key to winning the division. If the Sox can add an arm or get these guys straightened out, they will win the division.

Chicken Dinner
07-25-2009, 08:12 PM
+1. I agree 100%. The Sox are playing MUCH better baseball than they were, especially in May. They were very streaky. But in June, they won basically every series.

The Sox will win this division IF Kenny tweaks the team up a bit. I think the Sox NEED another starter. I do not feel comfortable with the Richard/Colon/Garcia toss up.

Jenks needs to get his head out of hiss and I am positive he will.

And don't forget about Jose.

Lip Man 1
07-25-2009, 08:13 PM
Without question they have played better since April / May but last I looked, those games count too. You don't get any mulligans.

The talent level is far better now than at the start of the year but the question still has to be asked, what were guys like Miller, MacDougal, Owens, Lillibridge, Wise, Egbert, Broadway, Betemit etc doing on the roster at the start of the year in the first place...and why?

Maybe if the talent level now was in position at the start of the season instead of a bunch of mediocre journeyman, the Sox have this division well in hand no? especially considering how soft the schedule was...

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2009, 08:18 PM
Maybe if the talent level now was in position at the start of the season instead of a bunch of mediocre journeyman, the Sox have this division well in hand no?

Yes, but we have to start with where we are now, not where we wished we were previously. There's plenty of time at the end of the season for reflection and recrimination.

I think the Sox could upgrade their roster significantly with some patented "under the radar moves" like some of what's being discussed in "What the Score." Obviously a trade for Halladay would be great, but there are other smaller trades that the Sox could make to improve the bench, the rotation and the bullpen, without too much added cost. I think a few small moves could turn this borderline team into a 90-game winner.

Lip Man 1
07-25-2009, 08:21 PM
Frater:

Maybe...but as JB stated so well the underlying issues will remain regardless of what 'small pieces' are brought in.

This team doesn't play defense well, they don't do the little things well (although they are better than they were) and the have trouble scoring runs other than blasting eight run home runs still and they have major issues against garbage / mediocre / rookie pitchers because of that mentality.

Lip

Chicken Dinner
07-25-2009, 08:23 PM
Without question they have played better since April / May but last I looked, those games count too. You don't get any mulligans.

The talent level is far better now than at the start of the year but the question still has to be asked, what were guys like Miller, MacDougal, Owens, Lillibridge, Wise, Egbert, Broadway, Betemit etc doing on the roster at the start of the year in the first place...and why?

Maybe if the talent level now was in position at the start of the season instead of a bunch of mediocre journeyman, the Sox have this division well in hand no? especially considering how soft the schedule was...

Lip

Agreed! The roster coming out of spring training was extremely weak. Now we're close to getting into the dog days of August and the puzzle is still short a few pieces. It seems that Kenny is content and I don't understand it.

guillensdisciple
07-25-2009, 08:25 PM
Meh, I know one guy who is feeling happy right now- Florida Tigers.

You play like crap- you deserve to lose. Nothing more and nothing less.

Go Sox!

JB98
07-25-2009, 08:32 PM
Agreed! The roster coming out of spring training was extremely weak. Now we're close to getting into the dog days of August and the puzzle is still short a few pieces. It seems that Kenny is content and I don't understand it.

We don't really know where Kenny stands, but we'll learn more between now and July 31.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2009, 08:37 PM
Frater:

Maybe...but as JB stated so well the underlying issues will remain regardless of what 'small pieces' are brought in.

This team doesn't play defense well, they don't do the little things well (although they are better than they were) and the have trouble scoring runs other than blasting eight run home runs still and they have major issues against garbage / mediocre / rookie pitchers because of that mentality.

Lip

I think the Sox are in the midst of a multi-season-long process of becoming a more fundamentally sound team. There's not a lot that can be done to upgrade the defense quickly other than wholesale changes. Pods is doing too good of a job leading off to be benched, so you have to keep him in CF. (He's bought the Sox time to develop Danks and then Mitchell.) The best you can do is find a better defender to be your fourth OF and use him as the late-inning defensive replacement in CF. Beckham is simply raw at 3B, since he's learning the position on the fly. But he's already miles ahead of Fields and especially Betemit (how soon we forget). He and Alexei will be a great left side of the infield someday, but for now they are just inexperienced at the MLB level. At the plate, as you acknowledge, their young players have added some speed and fundamentals to the lineup. Getz and Beckham in particular really have solidified the bottom of the order.

I really think the key to this season is not in the lineup, but on the mound. They need to improve the rotation and the bullpen.

Chicken Dinner
07-25-2009, 08:39 PM
We don't really know where Kenny stands, but we'll learn more between now and July 31.

6 more days!

Jollyroger2
07-25-2009, 08:41 PM
The only problem with looking at their record is that the record includes the results of a very mediocre April and May. The Sox are not the same ballclub they were for the first two months of the season. They now have a legitimate leadoff hitter. Their holes at 2nd and 3rd base have been filled. The middle of the order is now producing again, on pace with their career averages. The starting pitching has much improved. Quentin is back.

I think this team is better than mediocre and could advance in the playoffs. The number one priority right now is the bullpen, with the 5th starting spot being #2 on the list.

Were it not for the 7-game win streak (against crappy opponents) to push themselves over .500, this team would be under .500. It's not like they've ever had a consistent stretch of winning. They get 3-4-5 games above .500, then they lose 2 or 3 and get right back to where they were. It's the same pattern all season.

They have a big series against Tampa, taking three of four (should have been a sweep) ending in the fantastic perfect game, and then they go and do this. Same freakin mediocre garbage, and they're back to almost .500 again and behind the Tigers. Yawn. Yeah it's easy to say they're only 2 or 3 games out, but really...this team is about as boring and mediocre as you can get, and doesn't look like it would scare anyone in the postseason, if they even somehow manage to stumble into it, cause the division is so lousy.

DrCrawdad
07-25-2009, 08:49 PM
Forget Buehrle owing the team steak dinners; Jenks owes the team the entire goddamn buffet.

Horrible.

Fine, so long as Jenks pushes himself away from the buffet for once.

Oblong
07-25-2009, 08:55 PM
Just for some perspective:

The Tigers lost 3 games to the Yankees by scores of 5-3, 2-1, 2-1. Leyland said if he knew they'd hold them to 9 runs for the series he'd be thinking sweep the other way. They lose 2 games to the mariners 2-1. This is all post ASB. So if you want to say, "Yeah, the Sox should have won at least 2 of these 3 games, plus the Jenks blown save against TB, then the Tigers could just as easily say they should have won 3 of the 4 2-1 losses since the ASB so we're still talking the Tigers being up 3 games.

Every team has losses that their fans don't think should be losses. But so does the team they are battling for standings and the team also has wins that they probably shouldn't have gotten.

JB98
07-25-2009, 09:05 PM
Just for some perspective:

The Tigers lost 3 games to the Yankees by scores of 5-3, 2-1, 2-1. Leyland said if he knew they'd hold them to 9 runs for the series he'd be thinking sweep the other way. They lose 2 games to the mariners 2-1. This is all post ASB. So if you want to say, "Yeah, the Sox should have won at least 2 of these 3 games, plus the Jenks blown save against TB, then the Tigers could just as easily say they should have won 3 of the 4 2-1 losses since the ASB so we're still talking the Tigers being up 3 games.

Every team has losses that their fans don't think should be losses. But so does the team they are battling for standings and the team also has wins that they probably shouldn't have gotten.

The 2009 White Sox don't ever come back in the eighth and ninth innings to win games. Ever.

They don't have many wins that they probably shouldn't have gotten, which is another reason I don't have confidence in the team this season.

slavko
07-25-2009, 09:19 PM
The only problem with Jenks (and I've been saying this for the last two years) is that he's scared to death of throwing a curve ball with anyone on 2nd or 3rd base, which makes him a one-pitch pitcher in certain situations.

His last save was on a 3-2 slider, bases loaded. Seems so loooong ago.

I'm pretty sure that is a situation that Jenks can't improve from going through. He's not good in non-pressure situations, as we have seen before.

This implies that he is good in pressure situations. Seems so loooong ago.

Fine, so long as Jenks pushes himself away from the buffet for once.

He has developed a fine pair of drumsticks for himself. BIG! I wasn't aware they made baseball pants that size.

FloridaTigers
07-25-2009, 09:20 PM
Ed farmer has mentioned it a few times, they are stealing signs, or have lights signaling them somehow. Pods has been caught stealing twice on pitchouts. They are getting signs somehow. 31-15 at home and way, way under .500 on the road.

C'mon. Are you certain the Tigers are stealing signs? And if they are, perhaps the Sox should know by now to change them?

Lip Man 1
07-25-2009, 09:27 PM
JB:

Very well said. When this team gets behind in the 7th or later 95% of the time (and even that may be to low of a percentage) they are done. You can just see it.

------------------

Frater (and others):

There is an extremely well done story in Sports Illustrated this week on how Carl Crawford and speed is changing baseball.

I highly recommend reading it.

The story points out that even a team like the Rockies, who play in a band box ballpark (U.S. Cellular Field West) have now completely gotten away from the slow footed, station to station, swing hard and hope to hit the ball eight miles philosophy.

I'm glad the Sox have at least tried to bring back some balance but I just get the sense that Kenny had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. I mean how many years did we read Ozzie in the off season talking about it? The answer is three. This should have been done after the meltdown in the second half of 2006. To me Kenny is two seasons behind the curve on this one.

Better late than never I guess.

But these kids simply have to come through and outside of Beckham we don't know if they will or if they can handle the new philosophy sweeping the major leagues.

If the Sox are going to use the economy, fan attendance or expiring advertising contracts as a reason to stay out of the free agent market again (and another buyer's one to boot) they won't have any choice they'll have to succeed or the future simply won't look promising at all.

Lip

shingo10
07-25-2009, 09:37 PM
JB:

Very well said. When this team gets behind in the 7th or later 95% of the time (and even that may be to low of a percentage) they are done. You can just see it.

------------------

Frater (and others):

There is an extremely well done story in Sports Illustrated this week on how Carl Crawford and speed is changing baseball.

I highly recommend reading it.

The story points out that even a team like the Rockies, who play in a band box ballpark (U.S. Cellular Field West) have now completely gotten away from the slow footed, station to station, swing hard and hope to hit the ball eight miles philosophy.

I'm glad the Sox have at least tried to bring back some balance but I just get the sense that Kenny had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. I mean how many years did we read Ozzie in the off season talking about it? The answer is three. This should have been done after the meltdown in the second half of 2006. To me Kenny is two seasons behind the curve on this one.

Better late than never I guess.

But these kids simply have to come through and outside of Beckham we don't know if they will or if they can handle the new philosophy sweeping the major leagues.

If the Sox are going to use the economy, fan attendance or expiring advertising contracts as a reason to stay out of the free agent market again (and another buyer's one to boot) they won't have any choice they'll have to succeed or the future simply won't look promising at all.

Lip

In fairness to Kenny and the Sox, weren't they ahead of the curve on the whole speed/smallball thing? I mean trading Carlos Lee for Pods, signing Iguchi, ect. Just saying. I considered that team fast and geared towards "smallball." Unfortunatley, Pods injuries and such forced the team into a different direction.

Lip Man 1
07-25-2009, 09:57 PM
Shingo:

They traded Rowand for another slugger in Thome, I think that sent a pretty good indication of where the philosophy was at. That isn't a personal attack on Thome or extolling Rowand, just that the Sox lost a multi dimensional player for a guy who can do one thing, hit home runs...he couldn't even play the field.

The Lee deal was caused in part (notice I said in part) because Ozzie had it with his lack of fielding ability and some of the stupid things he was doing. Remember his comment about not sliding hard into second base?

I don't think it was a deal made completely along the lines of 'forward thinking' that was part of it sure, but there were other factors maybe even that had a larger part in it.

Ozzie's been talking about speed, smallball, bunting, fundamentals for the past three off seasons yet until this year what was Kenny sending him to spring training? (and even this year came about because stiffs like Miller, Betemit etc couldn't cut it --Kenny then brought up Beckham and so on..)

Lip

Brian26
07-25-2009, 10:03 PM
They traded Rowand for another slugger in Thome, I think that sent a pretty good indication of where the philosophy was at. That isn't a personal attack on Thome or extolling Rowand, just that the Sox lost a multi dimensional player for a guy who can do one thing, hit home runs...he couldn't even play the field.

That's an unfair argument, though, because Rowand and Thome play different positions. Really, Thome was replacing Everett in the lineup as the DH, while Brian Anderson was going to replace Rowand (at least until the second game of the 2006 season) in CF.

Brian26
07-25-2009, 10:09 PM
The talent level is far better now than at the start of the year but the question still has to be asked, what were guys like Miller, MacDougal, Owens, Lillibridge, Wise, Egbert, Broadway, Betemit etc doing on the roster at the start of the year in the first place...and why?

Lillibridge was on the roster because Nix was still hurt. Miller was on the roster because he was the best backup catcher available until Castro became tradeable by the Mets. MacDougal was there because he has a million dollar contract and lots of talent. Owens wasn't on the opening day roster, and I'm sure as hell not going to tear into Kenny over Egbert and Broadway as call ups to be the 11th pitcher. Kenny made adjustments based on performance. Give him credit for dropping Betemit and making a correction.

1908<2005
07-25-2009, 10:14 PM
Forget Buehrle owing the team steak dinners; Jenks owes the team the entire goddamn buffet.

Horrible.

I wouldn't want Jenks to attend that buffet though. He's already 80 pounds overweight.

Frankfan4life
07-25-2009, 10:46 PM
If he threw offspeed stuff like he did in the 8th we wouldn't be in this situation....

Horrible pitch to Granderson with an 0-2 count.

Bullpen by far. It is a disaster.

Bullpen, our offense did enough to win today.

Offense: Scored more runs than the other team.
Starting Pitching: Did its job, handed the game over to the BP with the win in line.
Jenks: Erased everything everyone else did.
Bullpen: Lost the game.
:(: but true!

twinsuck
07-25-2009, 10:47 PM
Ozzie is freaking stupid for putting Jenks(who has been majorly struggling lately) into the game with only a one run lead. Does he want the Sox to lose?? I understand he might want to rebuild Jenks confidence, but this wasn't the place to do it. If it was a 3 run game, sure put him out there. But not with a one run game when he's been struggling so much.

Woofer
07-25-2009, 10:52 PM
C'mon. Are you certain the Tigers are stealing signs? And if they are, perhaps the Sox should know by now to change them?

I only relayed what I've heard Ed Farmer say a few times this series. He seems very sure of it. Do all teams steal signs? Yes, they try to. It is up to the Sox bench to mix it up, and change signs? Yes, they should. People always hear rumors about the Tigers, Rangers and especially the Twins, having an unfair advantage at home. Whether it is lights flashing on a certain part of a board, or the air conditioning blowing out to center field while the Twins are batting, if the announcers are talking about it, so is the team. It's something to look into.
I know that years ago, the Sox would keep their balls in a humidor, because they had a weak hitting team. The damp ball wouldn't fly out of the park as easily. That is not cheating because both teams are using the same balls. The same goes for mowing the grass really short, or keeping it long to slow the ball down. Or wetting the baselines down when a speedy team is playing against you, it isn't cheating because both teams run the same bases. If any team is stealing signs electronically, it's cheating and they should be caught.

spiffie
07-25-2009, 10:57 PM
Only Sox fans could be gifted with the third best closer of the entire decade and still bitch about it.Ozzie's right about Sox fans.

twinsuck
07-25-2009, 11:12 PM
Only Sox fans could be gifted with the third best closer of the entire decade and still bitch about it.Ozzie's right about Sox fans.
No way Bobby Jenks is the 3rd best closer of the decade.

Noneck
07-25-2009, 11:21 PM
Only Sox fans could be gifted with the third best closer of the entire decade and still bitch about it.Ozzie's right about Sox fans.

1st I'll assume you meant one of the best in the decade.

Next are you saying that he shouldn't be booed and called names, like Oz did?
If so I agree.

Finally, if you are saying fans shouldn't question his current inability to do what he should be doing, You are wrong.

ChiSoxGirl
07-25-2009, 11:36 PM
**** the Bears, it's baseball season.

:thumbsup:!!!!

JB98
07-25-2009, 11:40 PM
Ozzie is freaking stupid for putting Jenks(who has been majorly struggling lately) into the game with only a one run lead. Does he want the Sox to lose?? I understand he might want to rebuild Jenks confidence, but this wasn't the place to do it. If it was a 3 run game, sure put him out there. But not with a one run game when he's been struggling so much.

He has to go to Jenks. He doesn't have anybody else. The whole bullpen is rotten right now.

chisoxfanatic
07-25-2009, 11:58 PM
He has to go to Jenks. He doesn't have anybody else. The whole bullpen is rotten right now.
I don't know, JB...I have more confidence in Thornton right now.

BleacherBandit
07-26-2009, 12:05 AM
I don't know, JB...I have more confidence in Thornton right now.

That doesn't mean you put him in the closer's role. I think you need to let Jenks get it back. He can't do that sitting in the bullpen during a save situation.

JB98
07-26-2009, 12:07 AM
I don't know, JB...I have more confidence in Thornton right now.

Thornton walked in the winning run yesterday.

I'm disappointed in all of them.

Lip Man 1
07-26-2009, 12:17 AM
Brian:

Disregard specifics then. The overall talent level was poor when the bell rang and for the first month. Why was that?

Why did the Sox have to "settle" for those stiffs in the first place? Were they the best that was available as you say? (of course not, Pudge Rodriguez was out there and even now he'd beat Corky Miller and his .186 lifetime average, ditto for Orlando Hudson and Wily Taveres who were also available) or were they the "best" under the parameters that Kenny was working under?

Those are important differences.

Kenny may have been ordered because of this overpowering concern about expiring ad contracts, to go with them because they were all he was allowed to afford or he may have completely misread a once in a decade free agent market that was clearly in favor of the buyers.

It's hard to say for sure...either way at least six of the guys on the big league roster the first month would have had difficulty making a good Triple A team...yet they were on the field for the White Sox.

Remember this too, the original plan was for Jerry Owems to be in center and 40% of the rotation filled by Clayton Richard and Jeff Marquez, how'd you think that would have worked out? (You think this club is mediocre now? Yikes!)

And I don't care how much Ol' MacDoogal was owed (e-i-e-i-OH NO!) his ass should have been cut last year. It should never have come to him even getting a chance. Mentally has was shot, another Boone Logan.

Lip

twinsuck
07-26-2009, 12:19 AM
He has to go to Jenks. He doesn't have anybody else. The whole bullpen is rotten right now.
He could have saved Thornton for the 9th instead of just using him for one batter. If I was Ozzie, this is what I have done: kept Floyd in for the final out of the 7th, Octavio in the 8th, then Thornton in the 9th. But yeah, I'm not a manager, I don't know that much. My plan could have gone horribly wrong too...

SBSoxFan
07-26-2009, 01:43 AM
He could have saved Thornton for the 9th instead of just using him for one batter. If I was Ozzie, this is what I have done: kept Floyd in for the final out of the 7th, Octavio in the 8th, then Thornton in the 9th. But yeah, I'm not a manager, I don't know that much. My plan could have gone horribly wrong too...

It seems most managers and relievers believe a bullpen is at it's best when everyone knows their roles. Moving Jenks out of the closer role would have upset that.

Let's remember, too, that Bobby was 1 for 2 in save opportunities against Tampa, not 0 for 2. As many have said, he looked ok today save for the 0-2 pitch to Granderson.

chisoxfanatic
07-26-2009, 01:57 AM
Let's remember, too, that Bobby was 1 for 2 in save opportunities against Tampa, not 0 for 2.
But he almost **** the bed in that second game! He's allowing way too many base runners! He's gotta get back to shutting them down. He's been far from "shut down" mode the past month!

SBSoxFan
07-26-2009, 02:06 AM
But he almost **** the bed in that second game! He's allowing way too many base runners! He's gotta get back to shutting them down. He's been far from "shut down" mode the past month!

Yes, almost. He still didn't give up any runs. Rodney had an ERA of 5.63 in March and April, and a 6.75 ERA in June, yet he was 11/11 in save opportunities. Stuff happens I guess.

Did you ever see Thigpen pitch? :wink:

Nellie_Fox
07-26-2009, 02:12 AM
I am really beginning to get concerned. I didn't see today's game (damned Fox blackout) but MLB Network put up a graphic tonight that said in his last six appearances, Bobby's "batting average against" is nearly .500. That is not closer performance.

BleacherBandit
07-26-2009, 02:54 AM
Just testing the waters:


Is there anybody here who agrees that we shouldn't think about precluding Bobby from the next save situation? I think he needs to be in there to recover and gain his rhythm again. I don't think you can play around with that role.

I just hope we get Sherill.

dakotasox
07-26-2009, 07:10 AM
Just testing the waters:


Is there anybody here who agrees that we shouldn't think about precluding Bobby from the next save situation? I think he needs to be in there to recover and gain his rhythm again. I don't think you can play around with that role.

I just hope we get Sherill.

You have to put them out there. If Jenks can't close then this team is screwed for the season. Sink or swim with Bobby.

Whitesoxfan23
07-26-2009, 07:15 AM
Is it possible that Bobby has some kind of injury that we don't know about? I don't get what the **** happened to Bobby.

slavko
07-26-2009, 08:00 AM
Is it possible that Bobby has some kind of injury that we don't know about? I don't get what the **** happened to Bobby.

The "injury" is a physical change caused by an enlargement in his already too big body. No, nothing hurts, so they can't call it an inury, but I'm convinced it affects his mechanics.

All's well with the world. In cleaning out my TIVO last night, I noticed the blackout game still on it. Bobby was hitting high 90's and snapping off that killer curve. The joy on Anderson's face after the last catch, the people pile in the infield after the game.

Say, wasn't there a post here that said he didn't have to dive for the ball? Was that the same poster that said Wise was hot-dogging it when he juggled the ball in Buehrle's masterpiece? Just asking.

WhiteSox1989
07-26-2009, 08:10 AM
The "injury" is a physical change caused by an enlargement in his already too big body. No, nothing hurts, so they can't call it an inury, but I'm convinced it affects his mechanics.

All's well with the world. In cleaning out my TIVO last night, I noticed the blackout game still on it. Bobby was hitting high 90's and snapping off that killer curve. The joy on Anderson's face after the last catch, the people pile in the infield after the game.

Say, wasn't there a post here that said he didn't have to dive for the ball? Was that the same poster that said Wise was hot-dogging it when he juggled the ball in Buehrle's masterpiece? Just asking.

Bobby is not any bigger this season.

GoGoCrede
07-26-2009, 09:13 AM
Bobby is not any bigger this season.

He's the same weight he was in 2005, I think. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Although I love that now he's doing poorly, the jokes about his weight are flying.

WhiteSox1989
07-26-2009, 09:19 AM
He's the same weight he was in 2005, I think. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Although I love that now he's doing poorly, the jokes about his weight are flying.
As someone pointed out the other day, when he's good he's "BIG bad Bobby Jenks"--not fat, but when he's bad he's fat.

tsoxman
07-26-2009, 09:22 AM
Brian:

Disregard specifics then. The overall talent level was poor when the bell rang and for the first month. Why was that?

Why did the Sox have to "settle" for those stiffs in the first place? Were they the best that was available as you say? (of course not, Pudge Rodriguez was out there and even now he'd beat Corky Miller and his .186 lifetime average, ditto for Orlando Hudson and Wily Taveres who were also available) or were they the "best" under the parameters that Kenny was working under?

Those are important differences.

Kenny may have been ordered because of this overpowering concern about expiring ad contracts, to go with them because they were all he was allowed to afford or he may have completely misread a once in a decade free agent market that was clearly in favor of the buyers.

It's hard to say for sure...either way at least six of the guys on the big league roster the first month would have had difficulty making a good Triple A team...yet they were on the field for the White Sox.

Remember this too, the original plan was for Jerry Owems to be in center and 40% of the rotation filled by Clayton Richard and Jeff Marquez, how'd you think that would have worked out? (You think this club is mediocre now? Yikes!)

And I don't care how much Ol' MacDoogal was owed (e-i-e-i-OH NO!) his ass should have been cut last year. It should never have come to him even getting a chance. Mentally has was shot, another Boone Logan.

Lip

Exactly. This team was not assembled in the off season to win anything this year. You can't win with a roster with so many marginal players even in a bad division like the Central. You have to fill all of the holes, or as many as possible.

For budget reasons, the Sox chose to go cheap and rely on marginal talent like Lilibridge, Marquez (remember hom? He was a favorite to win a starting rotation spot), Betemit, Nix, Miller and Colon. The plan seemingly, was to go with more speed and kids, write off 2009 and see what happens in 2010. With so many holes and such a lax approach at improving the team in the off season, It blows my mind that guys with limited contract time like Peavy and halliday were even considered. It seems that Sox management regrets not being more aggressive this last off season when better players could have been had at a cheaper price.

ms620
07-26-2009, 09:29 AM
I think those who were discussing the Tigers "stealing signs" really need to put it to rest. That is whining that is done by losing teams. The Sox did not lose b/c Pods was thrown out stealing. And who knows if the Tigers really stole signs. The Sox need to look at themselves for the blame for the last 3 games. Game 1 was Verlander. You tip your cap and move on. He is a great pitcher, regardless of his previous record vs the Sox. Game 2, the Sox let Bonine off the hook. The BP did not go a good job, but in that game, the Sox should have scored many more runs. Yesterday, the offense did not do a good job, but the loss is on Bobby. Throughout the season, teams win many games that they did not play their best. Yesterday, the Sox faced a tough pitcher, scratched out 3 runs, and were in position to win....until Bobby blew it. That is the bottom line. All Bobby needed was 1 more out, and it would have been irrelevant that the Tigers mighrt have stole signs. And do not think that the Sox do not look for the same advantage that other teams do. In addition to the blown saves, people here always talk about Bobby's struggles in tie games...well how did Rodney do yesterday in a tie game? Hopefulyl Bobby gets it back...but right now he is the primary reason the Sox are not in first place.

palehozenychicty
07-26-2009, 11:00 AM
Jesus everyone calm the **** down. If the Sox win tomorrow they are 2 games out of first and it isn't even August yet. Teams go through ups and downs all year and the Sox are no exception.

And to think I was called a dark cloud back when I wasn't kissing Ozzie and Kenny's Ass in the "Thank You Kenny and Ozzie Thread"


Thank you. We'll be alright.

JB98
07-26-2009, 01:24 PM
Just testing the waters:


Is there anybody here who agrees that we shouldn't think about precluding Bobby from the next save situation? I think he needs to be in there to recover and gain his rhythm again. I don't think you can play around with that role.

I just hope we get Sherill.

I'm with you. If there is a save situation tonight, I want Guillen to bring in Jenks.

hawkjt
07-26-2009, 01:39 PM
Bobby's quotes in the paper today confirmed what I saw...he had his stuff back yesterday..just bad luck..altho the last pitch to Granderson was still a bad decision...his stuff was fine.

I am glad he has that mind-set..in that job, there can be no doubt.

october23sp
07-26-2009, 04:43 PM
Bobby's quotes in the paper today confirmed what I saw...he had his stuff back yesterday..just bad luck..altho the last pitch to Granderson was still a bad decision...his stuff was fine.

I am glad he has that mind-set..in that job, there can be no doubt.

Bad luck, being ****ty, it's all the same.

FielderJones
07-26-2009, 05:48 PM
Bad luck, being ****ty, it's all the same.

You really think those two Twinkie hits in front of Granderson were Bobby being bad? :shakehead: Those were two good pitches that both Inge and Thames flared into hits like we were playing in the Metrodome.

ms620
07-26-2009, 06:07 PM
You really think those two Twinkie hits in front of Granderson were Bobby being bad? :shakehead: Those were two good pitches that both Inge and Thames flared into hits like we were playing in the Metrodome.

I will say this one more time...this is exactly why it is important to miss bats. Scouts always look for pitchers that miss bats b/c it limits the luck factor. If he strikes those guys out then they do not have the chance to get lucky. The hits in front of Granderson..fine...but when you have Granderson 0-2 you must get him out. Bobby is not even close to reliable right now. And the bad thing is this, if he is perfect for the rest of the season, he still might end up being worse than Rodney and Nathan this year...and in a tight race that is not good.

slavko
07-26-2009, 06:10 PM
Bobby's quotes in the paper today confirmed what I saw...he had his stuff back yesterday..just bad luck..altho the last pitch to Granderson was still a bad decision...his stuff was fine.

I am glad he has that mind-set..in that job, there can be no doubt.

Good. But Ozzie said 3 days ago that Jenks' problem was in locating his pitches.

MHOUSE
07-26-2009, 07:05 PM
I only saw the highlights on Sportscenter, but it looked like the Tigers were pretty fortunate to scrape out that run in the 9th and the 10th. It's not like Bobby is getting lit for moon-shot homeruns or doubles ripped into the gaps. It's hard to ride it out, especially in a big series like this, but if we want to win the division we're going to need Bobby.