PDA

View Full Version : Brandon Allen


...
07-24-2009, 10:33 PM
The man is on a mission. In my opinion, KW made the wrong move by trading Allen, especially considering the return.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2009/268591.html

Craig Grebeck
07-24-2009, 10:34 PM
Such is the nature of the PCL. I wouldn't read too much into it. Just a timely streak.

...
07-24-2009, 10:42 PM
Such is the nature of the PCL. I wouldn't read too much into it. Just a timely streak.

My opinion was based on this year in it's entirety however you still may be right.

California Sox
07-25-2009, 10:01 AM
If you look at last year -- especially in a tough place to hit like Birmingham -- along with this year, Allen has put together a nice run. He may just be an average MLB offensive 1b, but when you add speed, decent defense, the fact he hits left-handed and three years of cheap control, that seems like an awful lot to give up for the fifth guy in your bullpen. Hope I'm wrong and Pena works his way into a seventh or eighth inning role, but I hated this trade.

Craig Grebeck
07-25-2009, 10:04 AM
If you look at last year -- especially in a tough place to hit like Birmingham -- along with this year, Allen has put together a nice run. He may just be an average MLB offensive 1b, but when you add speed, decent defense, the fact he hits left-handed and three years of cheap control, that seems like an awful lot to give up for the fifth guy in your bullpen. Hope I'm wrong and Pena works his way into a seventh or eighth inning role, but I hated this trade.
If anything, I think Kenny wanted to move him before it became apparent that the Sox did not have a spot for Brandon. Given the performance of the core power hitters this year, they realized they may be around next year (both Dye and Thome).

Craig Grebeck
07-25-2009, 10:06 AM
My opinion was based on this year in it's entirety however you still may be right.
Of course. He was unbelievable last season, but has had trouble replicating his power (check out his ISO numbers). He may have just needed more time to figure it out, but there are questions abound with Allen.

California Sox
07-25-2009, 10:12 AM
Of course. He was unbelievable last season, but has had trouble replicating his power (check out his ISO numbers). He may have just needed more time to figure it out, but there are questions abound with Allen.

Sure. Arizona took the side of the deal with risk and upside. The Sox have more of the sure thing now. The upside for the Sox is Tony Pena is somewhat better than Adam Russell would have been. And the way Russell's been throwing it lately, questions abound there too.

voodoochile
07-25-2009, 10:36 AM
If you look at last year -- especially in a tough place to hit like Birmingham -- along with this year, Allen has put together a nice run. He may just be an average MLB offensive 1b, but when you add speed, decent defense, the fact he hits left-handed and three years of cheap control, that seems like an awful lot to give up for the fifth guy in your bullpen. Hope I'm wrong and Pena works his way into a seventh or eighth inning role, but I hated this trade.
I'm sure that's what the Sox hope and expect and think he'll become a cheaper version of Dotel next year at the least. Freeing up that money to be spent elsewhere.

If anything, I think Kenny wanted to move him before it became apparent that the Sox did not have a spot for Brandon. Given the performance of the core power hitters this year, they realized they may be around next year (both Dye and Thome).

Exactly. The Sox are fine at power hitting 1B for the foreseeable future.

Malgar 12
07-25-2009, 10:56 AM
If anything, I think Kenny wanted to move him before it became apparent that the Sox did not have a spot for Brandon. Given the performance of the core power hitters this year, they realized they may be around next year (both Dye and Thome).

Thome's gone after this year.

Craig Grebeck
07-25-2009, 11:04 AM
Thome's gone after this year.
Don't bet on it.

California Sox
07-25-2009, 01:23 PM
So, the ability to replace Dotel's $5 mil frees up money for other areas, but the ability to replace Thome's $15 mil doesn't?

It's possible the Sox don't believe Allen is anything more than Daryl Ward, so they were getting out before he lost his value. They're good at self-scouting, so that's a possibility. But KW has a thing for other people's middle relievers (Vizcaino, Macdougal, Linebrink, Dotel, Aardsma, etc.). And he's always willing to overpay for veterans (see last year's Griffey trade -- is Masset any worse than Pena?). I think he fell in love with 2007 Tony Pena and paid top dollar for 2009 Tony Pena. Hope it works. Have my doubts.

khan
07-25-2009, 02:48 PM
My concern with respect to trading away Allen was his status as a lefty power bat; I don't see any other near MLB-ready lefty power bats in the organization.

At the same time, I think KW knew that Allen didn't have a spot here next year, and were he not on the 40 man roster, he'd be Rule 5 eligibile this offseason. I think this may have played a part in KW's decision to move Allen at this time.

Craig Grebeck
07-25-2009, 03:12 PM
So, the ability to replace Dotel's $5 mil frees up money for other areas, but the ability to replace Thome's $15 mil doesn't?

It's possible the Sox don't believe Allen is anything more than Daryl Ward, so they were getting out before he lost his value. They're good at self-scouting, so that's a possibility. But KW has a thing for other people's middle relievers (Vizcaino, Macdougal, Linebrink, Dotel, Aardsma, etc.). And he's always willing to overpay for veterans (see last year's Griffey trade -- is Masset any worse than Pena?). I think he fell in love with 2007 Tony Pena and paid top dollar for 2009 Tony Pena. Hope it works. Have my doubts.
If Brandon Allen could have put up a .392 wOBA next season he wouldn't have been dealt. The likelihood that Pena replaces Dotel's production is far, far more likely than Allen turning into even a run-down Jim Thome by 2010.

Is Masset worse than Pena? Uh, **** yes. Don't let 40 innings aided by a very lucky BABIP lead you to idiotic conclusions.

My concern with respect to trading away Allen was his status as a lefty power bat; I don't see any other near MLB-ready lefty power bats in the organization.

At the same time, I think KW knew that Allen didn't have a spot here next year, and were he not on the 40 man roster, he'd be Rule 5 eligibile this offseason. I think this may have played a part in KW's decision to move Allen at this time.
He wasn't MLB ready.

Do you really not see anyone KW could have cut loose to make room for Allen? (http://www.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=cws) He would have been put on the 40 man -- he just isn't worth all that much to this franchise. Is Pena worth more? Probably.

khan
07-25-2009, 03:39 PM
He wasn't MLB ready.
I tend to agree with you on this point. I don't think his minor league numbers projected him to be on the big club in 2010. But again, he IS a lefty power bat.

Do you really not see anyone KW could have cut loose to make room for Allen? (http://www.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=cws) He would have been put on the 40 man -- he just isn't worth all that much to this franchise. Is Pena worth more? Probably.

Without considering who else would have to be protected, I can't make a definitive statement as to whether or not he'd be put in the 40 man. Especially when you consider how close Allen may or may not be to the bigs.

I also reserve judgement on Pena. I also thought of him as a potential Dotel replacement, at a lower price; Pena's contract enables KW to perhaps extend Jenks again.

So considering whether or not to keep Allen in the 40 man, PLUS the current status of the bullpen in light of potential budgetary constraints, Pena for Allen was the right move, IMO. I'd just feel better if there were another lefty bat in the organization that is anywhere near to being called up.

UChicagoHP
08-22-2009, 05:17 PM
He was called up to the big show today. No denying he has been absolutely amazing since the trade. 12 HR's in a month...

DrCrawdad
08-22-2009, 05:23 PM
I have no problem with trading Allen, I just would like to have seen the Sox get a rock solid arm in return. Not exactly sure who I'm talking about but it would have been nice to get something better than Pena. I'm not impressed with him. I hope he proves me wrong.

Craig Grebeck
08-22-2009, 05:29 PM
I have no problem with trading Allen, I just would like to have seen the Sox get a rock solid arm in return. Not exactly sure who I'm talking about but it would have been nice to get something better than Pena. I'm not impressed with him. I hope he proves me wrong.
Eh, Allen was pretty mediocre for Birmingham and pretty awful at Charlotte and is now exploding in the PCL. I doubt he haunts us.

DrCrawdad
08-22-2009, 05:34 PM
Eh, Allen was pretty mediocre for Birmingham and pretty awful at Charlotte and is now exploding in the PCL. I doubt he haunts us.

I hear you, but couldn't KW have got something better in return?

Whitesoxfan23
08-22-2009, 05:36 PM
He was called up to the big show today. No denying he has been absolutely amazing since the trade. 12 HR's in a month...


This trade could end up being a stinker for KW.

Craig Grebeck
08-22-2009, 05:39 PM
I hear you, but couldn't KW have got something better in return?
I 'spose. I think Allen's value was deteriorating, as first baseman who struggle at higher levels of the minor leagues aren't hot commodities. KW sees something in Pena, and he's performed of late (a 2.19 ERA since July 24 -- cherry-picked data to be sure, but it's still promising.)

We've made some strange trades with Arizona; some good (Vazquez, Quentin), some bad (this one perhaps, Richar). I'm not too peeved about it, the PCL is a hitter's paradise.

That being said, if Allen rakes, it will look a lot worse. How much more flexible would our lineup 2010 and beyond look with Allen?

A. Cavatica
08-22-2009, 07:02 PM
And he singles in his first major league at bat.

JermaineDye05
08-22-2009, 07:05 PM
And he singles in his first major league at bat.

Actually it was his second.

Congratulations, Brandon.

I predicted to my friend that Brandon's first hit and/or HR would be off of Charlie Haeger. Hopefully Brandon doesn't HR in this game! I don't want to look like an ass :D:

chaotic8512
08-22-2009, 07:05 PM
Well, I was going to say he just got his first major league hit, but you guys are really fast... :tongue:

Redus Redux
08-22-2009, 11:49 PM
The only way this trade hurts us is if he becomes a special player at the MLB level

Otherwise, 1b/LF can be attained pretty easily if you wanna spend the dollars.

I think the chance of him being 'special' is low, but it's there. Hence AZ makes the trade.

Tragg
08-23-2009, 01:19 PM
I'm watching Allen bat for the Diamondbacks right now. He hit a shot just foul and then struck out.

If Pena keeps pitching this way, it's a bad trade, regardless of what Allen does. If Pena's decent and Allen isn't, it's a good trade. If Pena's decent and Allen's great it's a bad trade.
Arizona sent us Quentin but they also sent some garbage this way like Richar.

TomBradley72
08-23-2009, 08:27 PM
It's only a bad trade if we end up having to expend alot of resources to cover 1st base after PK's contract expires next season. Maybe KW could have received more in return...but he was trading from surplus since 1st base is locked up through 2010. I'd also like to give Pena a little more time to work with Coop, etc. to see if he realizes the potential KW saw in him.

balke
08-24-2009, 07:54 AM
I feel like AZ and the Sox both tried to compensate each other. Sox got ripped on the Chris Young trade initially. Then it seemed like the Diamondbacks got ripped on the TCQ trade, and meanwhile Chris Young is back in AAA. Now the Sox send Allen and I think it all might even out.

Being a GM means keeping good relations with teams in trades, and not trying to screw anyone over too hard. I feel like that's what is going on, and why AZ will continue to be good trade partners for the Sox.

TomBradley72
08-24-2009, 08:15 AM
I feel like AZ and the Sox both tried to compensate each other. Sox got ripped on the Chris Young trade initially. Then it seemed like the Diamondbacks got ripped on the TCQ trade, and meanwhile Chris Young is back in AAA. Now the Sox send Allen and I think it all might even out.

Being a GM means keeping good relations with teams in trades, and not trying to screw anyone over too hard. I feel like that's what is going on, and why AZ will continue to be good trade partners for the Sox.

If a trade doesn't work out, isn't a team's scouting department more accountable than the opposing team's GM? If Chris Young is back in AAA, I can't see how the DBacks would perceive KW as having "fleeced" them. Same with the TCQ trade. The Dbacks staff made the assessment on his talent level and potential.

Dibbs
08-24-2009, 08:26 AM
Considering Pena has been and most likely always will be terrible, I would say Kenny made a bad trade. It's even worse to think Pena is going to take Dotel's spot. It's like a double whammy.

Craig Grebeck
08-24-2009, 09:05 AM
Considering Pena has been and most likely always will be terrible, I would say Kenny made a bad trade. It's even worse to think Pena is going to take Dotel's spot. It's like a double whammy.
Yeah, nevermind the 3 ER in his last 12.2 innings, or the fact that your definitive and concrete statement lacks any evidence or rationale.

Tragg
08-24-2009, 10:09 AM
Yeah, nevermind the 3 ER in his last 12.2 innings, or the fact that your definitive and concrete statement lacks any evidence or rationale.A deceptive statistic for a relief pitcher. Hopefully Pena will be an effective pitcher.

Dibbs
08-24-2009, 10:22 AM
Yeah, nevermind the 3 ER in his last 12.2 innings, or the fact that your definitive and concrete statement lacks any evidence or rationale.

LOL, I guess your concrete evidence of his conveniently picked last 12 IP take precedence over his career stats. I watch him pitch and I don't see him being a good reliever anytime soon. I hope we hang on to Dotel. It is nice to have that strikeout pitcher coming out of the pen with people on base. I hope Kenny proves me wrong on this one. I think he gave up much, much more than he had to on this one. Not to mention, Pena is no spring chicken.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=30045

Craig Grebeck
08-24-2009, 10:29 AM
LOL, I guess your concrete evidence of his conveniently picked last 12 IP take precedence over his career stats. I watch him pitch and I don't see him being a good reliever anytime soon. I hope we hang on to Dotel. It is nice to have that strikeout pitcher coming out of the pen with people on base. I hope Kenny proves me wrong on this one. I think he gave up much, much more than he had to on this one. Not to mention, Pena is no spring chicken.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=30045
He's not old either, and I'm not one for committing money to Dotel when it will be scarce after the Rios and Peavy acquisitions.

I also don't understand this idea that he has, in your words, "always been" terrible. That's hyperbolic, and stupid. That's on par with the few posters who say Nix has "always battered minor league pitching" or something to that extent. It's simply not true. Pena's been useful in the past and I wouldn't bet against a return to form in Chicago.

Also, the deification of Brandon Allen is pretty ridiculous. He was mediocre in Birmingham and downright bad in Charlotte. He's a first baseman who has serious questions with the bat. Kill me for not being bowled over by a small sample size of games in the PCL, which is a hitter's amusement park.

Dibbs
08-24-2009, 10:54 AM
He's not old either, and I'm not one for committing money to Dotel when it will be scarce after the Rios and Peavy acquisitions.

I also don't understand this idea that he has, in your words, "always been" terrible. That's hyperbolic, and stupid. That's on par with the few posters who say Nix has "always battered minor league pitching" or something to that extent. It's simply not true. Pena's been useful in the past and I wouldn't bet against a return to form in Chicago.

Also, the deification of Brandon Allen is pretty ridiculous. He was mediocre in Birmingham and downright bad in Charlotte. He's a first baseman who has serious questions with the bat. Kill me for not being bowled over by a small sample size of games in the PCL, which is a hitter's amusement park.

Pena is not old, but he is no spring chicken like I said. He will be 28 next year and hasn't had any great MLB success. He has actually been pretty bad. Not much upside. Do you feel confident when he comes into the game?

Oh, and saying he's had a terrible career is not as stupid as saying look at his ERA over his last twelve innings pitched. Lets go one more inning and now it is 7 ER over 13.2 IP. See, I can play that game too.

I don't know if Allen will turn out to be a good MLB player, but I think Kenny gave up more than he had to.

Craig Grebeck
08-24-2009, 11:01 AM
Pena is not old, but he is no spring chicken like I said. He will be 28 next year and hasn't had any great MLB success. He has actually been pretty bad. Not much upside. Do you feel confident when he comes into the game?

Oh, and saying he's had a terrible career is not as stupid as saying look at his ERA over his last twelve innings pitched. Lets go one more inning and now it is 7 ER over 13.2 IP. See, I can play that game too.

I don't know if Allen will turn out to be a good MLB player, but I think Kenny gave up more than he had to.
I'm saying he's had some degree of success with the White Sox by using his last twelve innings. His struggles with the Sox came in his first four outings, and since then he's been much, much sharper.

Am I confident when he comes into games? Not a good evaluator. If that's the case, the only good pitcher in our pen is Thornton.

oeo
08-24-2009, 11:54 AM
Pena is not old, but he is no spring chicken like I said. He will be 28 next year and hasn't had any great MLB success. He has actually been pretty bad. Not much upside. Do you feel confident when he comes into the game?

28 is still young for a relief pitcher considering most do not hit there stride until their early-30s.

I don't know if Allen will turn out to be a good MLB player, but I think Kenny gave up more than he had to.

WSI always says this. Personally, I think we sold high on Allen. Relief pitching is expensive, especially if you want to get a young arm.

BadBobbyJenks
08-24-2009, 04:31 PM
Can we get over this guy who is no longer with us...

spawn
08-24-2009, 04:32 PM
Can we get over this guy who is no longer with us...
Have we ever been able to get over someone who is no longer with the organization?

For the record, I agree with you.

TomBradley72
08-24-2009, 05:20 PM
Can we get over this guy who is no longer with us...

And at least wait until his resume has something beyond AAA on it?

knocko94
08-24-2009, 07:15 PM
And at least wait until his resume has something beyond AAA on it?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=30070

:dunce:

spawn
08-24-2009, 08:51 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=30070

:dunce:
Yeah...those 8 MLB at-bats definitely makes for a strong resume.

Dibbs
08-26-2009, 08:47 PM
28 is still young for a relief pitcher considering most do not hit there stride until their early-30s.

So are you saying we have to wait three more years for this guy to hit his stride? This is a worse trade than I thought. :scratch:

Craig Grebeck
08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
So are you saying we have to wait three more years for this guy to hit his stride? This is a worse trade than I thought. :scratch:
You may want to wait a little while before you declare it a bad trade. It's been one month.

Dibbs
08-26-2009, 09:19 PM
You may want to wait a little while before you declare it a bad trade. It's been one month.

I can have the opinion this was a bad trade and Kenny overpaid. I hope my opinion is wrong, but I doubt it. Only time will tell. So far, so bad.

soxinem1
08-27-2009, 01:02 PM
http://www.dabbledoo.com/ee/images/uploads/gamertell/crystal_ball.jpg

Amazing on how much information the crystal ball gives us........

Especially for a guy who never played with the White Sox.

First off, the trade is not supposed to be good or bad for either team, it is supposed to benefit BOTH.

Second, ask in three years when both of them have time in with their new teams.

spawn
08-27-2009, 01:06 PM
http://www.dabbledoo.com/ee/images/uploads/gamertell/crystal_ball.jpg

Amazing on how much information the crystal ball gives us........

Especially for a guy who never played with the White Sox.

First off, the trade is not supposed to be good or bad for either team, it is supposed to benefit BOTH.

Second, ask in three years when both of them have time in with their new teams.
Making reasoned arguments is not allowed here. What's wrong with you?

oeo
08-27-2009, 11:14 PM
Allen hit his first big league homer tonight, a 3-run bomb to right center at AT&T Park.

GoSox2K3
08-27-2009, 11:22 PM
Judging from the activity on this forum over the last week or so, it sounds like Sox fans are more interested in the progress of a Diamondbacks player than the progress of the minor leaguers who are still in the Sox organization!

oeo
08-27-2009, 11:29 PM
Judging from the activity on this forum over the last week or so, it sounds like Sox fans are more interested in the progress of a Diamondbacks player than the progress of the minor leaguers who are still in the Sox organization!

Allen is a Sox farmhand, I see nothing wrong with it. I like the trade, but I'd still like to see how Allen does.

GoSox2K3
08-28-2009, 09:44 AM
Allen is a Sox farmhand, I see nothing wrong with it. I like the trade, but I'd still like to see how Allen does.

No he isn't. He is a former Sox farmhand.

There's nothing wrong with being interested in seeing how he does, but judging from the activity here it seems like people are more interested in his progress than in the progress of our own prospects.

kravdog
08-28-2009, 10:25 AM
Judging from the activity on this forum over the last week or so, it sounds like Sox fans are more interested in the progress of a Diamondbacks player than the progress of the minor leaguers who are still in the Sox organization!

Probably has a lot to do with the fact that Paul is hitting .240 w/ only 6 hr & 19 rbi in the 41 games since the Allen/Pena trade... During this stretch his BA has dropped from .304 to .281...

cws05champ
08-28-2009, 10:55 AM
Probably has a lot to do with the fact that Paul is hitting .240 w/ only 6 hr & 19 rbi in the 41 games since the Allen/Pena trade... During this stretch his BA has dropped from .304 to .281...
No it has to do with the fact that all the arm chair GM's on here are waiting to say "I told you so" if Allen succeeds and Pena flops.

oeo
08-28-2009, 02:02 PM
No he isn't. He is a former Sox farmhand.

You know what I meant.

There's nothing wrong with being interested in seeing how he does, but judging from the activity here it seems like people are more interested in his progress than in the progress of our own prospects.

Most people are disinterested in the minor leagues, that's why this forum doesn't get much work. Brandon Allen just got called up to the major leagues, a guy that was drafted and developed by the White Sox. Of course people will be more interested in that, as he's in the big leagues. People want to know how he's going to fare.

Hitmen77
08-28-2009, 02:48 PM
No it has to do with the fact that all the arm chair GM's on here are waiting to say "I told you so" if Allen succeeds and Pena flops.

......and we have a winner. :nod:

tsoxman
09-03-2009, 05:31 AM
No it has to do with the fact that all the arm chair GM's on here are waiting to say "I told you so" if Allen succeeds and Pena flops.

Wrong. Many detested that trade when it happened, and not well after the fact. Trading a legit prospect for a reliever with a limited history of success and whose only claim to fame is that he throws hard was a stupid move on Kenny's part.

BTW, Allen homered again for the D-backs last night.

DrCrawdad
09-03-2009, 07:25 AM
No it has to do with the fact that all the arm chair GM's on here are waiting to say "I told you so" if Allen succeeds and Pena flops.

I want Pena to succeed with the Sox. If Allen does well, good for him.

DumpJerry
09-03-2009, 07:36 AM
Is it a coincidence that Brandon Allen's initials are "BA?"

I think not.

What is it about those initials that cause some people to not be able to let go?

GoSox2K3
09-03-2009, 08:30 AM
Wrong. Many detested that trade when it happened, and not well after the fact. Trading a legit prospect for a reliever with a limited history of success and whose only claim to fame is that he throws hard was a stupid move on Kenny's part.

BTW, Allen homered again for the D-backs last night.

BTW, Allen struck out 7 times in 12 at bats on Saturday, Sunday, Monday. ......but we'll only mention when he hits a HR so that people here think the Sox traded away the next Mark Teixeira who would be helping out the Sox right now.

ms620
09-03-2009, 08:55 AM
Wrong. Many detested that trade when it happened, and not well after the fact. Trading a legit prospect for a reliever with a limited history of success and whose only claim to fame is that he throws hard was a stupid move on Kenny's part.

BTW, Allen homered again for the D-backs last night.

What is your definition of a legit prospect? After the trade, Keith Law reported that he spoke to a bunch of scouts and that a majority of them did not think Brandon Allen would ever become an every day player.

The Immigrant
09-03-2009, 09:09 AM
BTW, Allen homered again for the D-backs last night.

He also has 15 strikeouts in 35 at-bats and is batting in the .240s.

That looks an awful lot like the line Josh Fields put up in meaningless games in 2007, although Josh hit more homeruns in limited ABs.

NLaloosh
09-03-2009, 09:57 AM
BTW, Allen struck out 7 times in 12 at bats on Saturday, Sunday, Monday. ......but we'll only mention when he hits a HR so that people here think the Sox traded away the next Mark Teixeira who would be helping out the Sox right now.

He'll be better than Texeira!

UChicagoHP
09-03-2009, 04:22 PM
Barring Allen taking some special vitamins, I don't think he has All-Star potential by any stretch of the imagination, but he might be able to stick in the big leagues. I'm fairly sure Kenny doesn't pull the trigger if he thought there was any chance of Allen developing into something special.

JermaineDye05
09-03-2009, 05:00 PM
Barring Allen taking some special vitamins, I don't think he has All-Star potential by any stretch of the imagination, but he might be able to stick in the big leagues. I'm fairly sure Kenny doesn't pull the trigger if he thought there was any chance of Allen developing into something special.

I don't think Kenny feels that Allen will be a bust. He wouldn't get a good reputation as a gm if he continually traded bust prospects to teams. You always want trades to work out for both teams. Kenny also can't win them all. Right now the Pena trade doesn't look too good but I think by next season it will look a lot better.

oeo
09-03-2009, 05:46 PM
I don't think Kenny feels that Allen will be a bust. He wouldn't get a good reputation as a gm if he continually traded bust prospects to teams.

How does that give you a bad reputation? If you trade for a bust prospect, that's on you and your scouting, not who you traded with. As long as teams continue to like our players, they will continue to trade for them.

If he was trading damaged goods consistently (like the Freddy Garcia deal), that's probably frowned upon and would give him a bad reputation. But prospects? That's the risk you take when you trade for potential.

Besides, Allen has never been looked at as some big time prospect, anyway. Watching him yesterday on ESPN, it doesn't appear as if he has a very good grasp of the strike zone, but man can he hit the ball a long way.

Tragg
09-03-2009, 07:39 PM
I don't think Kenny feels that Allen will be a bust. He wouldn't get a good reputation as a gm if he continually traded bust prospects to teams. You always want trades to work out for both teams. Kenny also can't win them all. Right now the Pena trade doesn't look too good but I think by next season it will look a lot better.
No sir.
Teams can't expect top prospect results in return for middle relievers.
Plus, it's THEIR responsibility to scout the players.

If Williams was trading, say, injured players to teams, I would agree with you. But prospects are prospects - it's the other team's responsibility to scout them.

Hitmen77
09-03-2009, 11:57 PM
He also has 15 strikeouts in 35 at-bats and is batting in the .240s.

That looks an awful lot like the line Josh Fields put up in meaningless games in 2007, although Josh hit more homeruns in limited ABs.

There you go, ruining this thread with facts. Don't you know, this guy hit 2 HR already!

TomBradley72
09-04-2009, 09:29 AM
I don't think Kenny feels that Allen will be a bust. He wouldn't get a good reputation as a gm if he continually traded bust prospects to teams. You always want trades to work out for both teams. Kenny also can't win them all. Right now the Pena trade doesn't look too good but I think by next season it will look a lot better.

I don't understand this logic....GM's don't make trades based on KW's assessment or sales pitch about a player...they make it based on their own organization's scouting department's assessment of a player. If the player turns out to be a bust...their scouting is accountable not KW.

johnnyg83
09-04-2009, 05:00 PM
I don't understand this logic....GM's don't make trades based on KW's assessment or sales pitch about a player...they make it based on their own organization's scouting department's assessment of a player. If the player turns out to be a bust...their scouting is accountable not KW.


I agree with this. But if an organization keeps feeding you busts, it's human nature to NOT want to do business with them again.

oeo
09-04-2009, 05:23 PM
I agree with this. But if an organization keeps feeding you busts, it's human nature to NOT want to do business with them again.

Well, you should be questioning yourself and your organization's talent evaluation. You can't say, these players were from such and such organization, therefore I can't deal with this organization again. You instead to need to evaluate the talent from that organization better (and every organization for that matter).

Instead of not dealing with that organization, people will lose their jobs because they're not doing a very good job.