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View Full Version : Lesson Learned Kenny?


tsoxman
07-24-2009, 09:31 PM
I hope that Kenny has seen what happens when you have a farm system void of hard throwing arms that can rise through the ranks and assume some of the key bullpen roles. Recall that these are the same types of pitchers that the organization was afraid to draft for various reasons.

To address this deficiency, we have gone out and have acquired very expensive arms (Dotel, Linebrink, MacDougal) that may have worked in the short run, but likely will continue to fail going forward. MacdOugal is gone, but we are still paying him...Linebrink has two years left on his deal and frankly, looks washed up. Dotel's effectiveness drops as the appearances pile up. Thorton has worked out well, but alas, his effectieveness has diminsihed of late because the others mentioned are failing and he is frequently called in to clean up their messes. And, please soemone expalin to me the Tony Pena acquisition. He has mop-up guy written all over him.

rdivaldi
07-24-2009, 09:40 PM
:scratch: The Sox farm system is full of power pitchers.

Lip Man 1
07-24-2009, 09:40 PM
Soxman:

With respect what the Sox DON'T need is 'hard throwing kids' from the minor league system...or have you forgotten what the bullpen looked like in 2007 when Kenny did nothing but bring up kids and acquire mediocrity without a track record who all threw 95.

A straight fastball to a big league hitter is eventually going to get hit a very long way.

The bullpen this year and last year's (even with the injuries) was far better than the garbage that was out there in 2007.

Lip

tsoxman
07-24-2009, 09:50 PM
Soxman:

With respect what the Sox DON'T need is 'hard throwing kids' from the minor league system...or have you forgotten what the bullpen looked like in 2007 when Kenny did nothing but bring up kids and acquire mediocrity without a track record who all threw 95.

A straight fastball to a big league hitter is eventually going to get hit a very long way.

The bullpen this year and last year's (even with the injuries) was far better than the garbage that was out there in 2007.

Lip

This is true, and I realize that changing speeds is important to effectiveness, but the point is that we went years and drafted low ceiling pitchers, thus forcing us to overpay for older veteran bullpen pitchers who likely will eventually will break down.

Brian26
07-24-2009, 09:57 PM
I hope that Kenny has seen what happens when you have a farm system void of hard throwing arms that can rise through the ranks and assume some of the key bullpen roles. Recall that these are the same types of pitchers that the organization was afraid to draft for various reasons.

Kenny's got one more World Series ring than you do. I'm sure he appreciate the advice though.

For every major league team, putting together a solid bullpen is a crap-shoot on a yearly basis.

LoveYourSuit
07-24-2009, 10:07 PM
Kenny's got one more World Series ring than you do. I'm sure he appreciate the advice though.

For every major league team, putting together a solid bullpen is a crap-shoot on a yearly basis.


Come on Brian, that's very lame. Don't go Hub Arkush on the guy.


I do agree that putting a bullpen together is a complete crap-shoot. Look no further than our 2005 team.

And Kenny has struck gold on a few arms here with Thornton and Jenks.

voodoochile
07-24-2009, 10:29 PM
Wasn't the plan for the 2007 bullpen to staff it with young hard throwing arms?

That worked out well....:rolleyes:

...
07-24-2009, 10:55 PM
I hope that Kenny has seen what happens when you have a farm system void of hard throwing arms that can rise through the ranks and assume some of the key bullpen roles. Recall that these are the same types of pitchers that the organization was afraid to draft for various reasons.

To address this deficiency, we have gone out and have acquired very expensive arms (Dotel, Linebrink, MacDougal) that may have worked in the short run, but likely will continue to fail going forward. MacdOugal is gone, but we are still paying him...Linebrink has two years left on his deal and frankly, looks washed up. Dotel's effectiveness drops as the appearances pile up. Thorton has worked out well, but alas, his effectieveness has diminsihed of late because the others mentioned are failing and he is frequently called in to clean up their messes. And, please soemone expalin to me the Tony Pena acquisition. He has mop-up guy written all over him.


Dexter Carter leads the entire minor leagues in strikeouts.

balke
07-24-2009, 11:27 PM
Can we change the thread title to "Ooo a reliever gave up a run again and I'm so maad!"?

Seriously, bullpen isn't as good as it should be, but it is still good. 6th in the AL in ERA. 4th in the AL in K's. They need to suck it up, but don't blame Kenny for acquiring quality relief.

rdivaldi
07-24-2009, 11:29 PM
but the point is that we went years and drafted low ceiling pitchers.

McCulloch, Broadway and..................:scratch:

...
07-24-2009, 11:40 PM
McCulloch, Broadway and..................:scratch:

It is a bit baffling that after a WS win, they are our next two top draft pics.

DumpJerry
07-24-2009, 11:47 PM
If our offense had taken advantage of the gifts the Tigers gave us, this thread would not exist. How many were left on? How many times were the bases juiced in Game Two?

DrCrawdad
07-24-2009, 11:49 PM
If our offense had taken advantage of the gifts the Tigers gave us, this thread would not exist. How many were left on? How many times were the bases juiced in Game Two?


The Sox have slipped back into the fail to execute mode again.

tsoxman
07-25-2009, 05:44 AM
Wasn't the plan for the 2007 bullpen to staff it with young hard throwing arms?

That worked out well....:rolleyes:

Yes you are right. That did not work out very well. At times Kenny pushes the limits of Don Cooper's capabilities (See Tony Pena). But at the very least, we were not saddled with those guys for multiple years because of expensive long term deals. Unfortunately, we are stuck with Linebrink for another 2 1/2 years. Not only do we have to suffer through one failure after another with him, but that is $5 million less per season than what we have to work with.`

russ99
07-25-2009, 07:37 AM
Might be a good place to bring this up:

I wonder how much of the bullpen struggles of late are on Ozzie?

These guys excel when their roles are defined, but Ozzie's been mix-n-matching them a lot lately, especially with Thornton.

What goes along with that is if a guy isn't performing in his role, move someone else in. Why not try Dotel or Pena in the 8th of a tie game?

I also don't get the abuse that Linebrink gets around here. All our relievers go through rough patches and he's getting the most calling out. Don't rip the guy due to his contract. Besides he threw some good pitches the last few outings and they get by Sox fielders.

Jurr
07-25-2009, 09:17 AM
Might be a good place to bring this up:

I wonder how much of the bullpen struggles of late are on Ozzie?

These guys excel when their roles are defined, but Ozzie's been mix-n-matching them a lot lately, especially with Thornton.

What goes along with that is if a guy isn't performing in his role, move someone else in. Why not try Dotel or Pena in the 8th of a tie game?

I also don't get the abuse that Linebrink gets around here. All our relievers go through rough patches and he's getting the most calling out. Don't rip the guy due to his contract. Besides he threw some good pitches the last few outings and they get by Sox fielders.
Well, that may be an issue, but the real consideration is just what others mentioned....no bullpen is solid all year by the sheer nature of its parts.

No player ever goes through his high school and college days with aspirations toward being a big league reliever. These guys are in the pen for a reason. They may have only one or two plus pitches. They may not be consistent enough to keep getting outs through 5+ innings. When these guys struggle it's either totally mental or they aren't locating one of their two pitches. A guy like Buehrle has 5 plus pitches. Something will be working typically.

Bullpen performance is a crapshoot because the pitchers aren't top quality.

fram40
07-25-2009, 02:30 PM
These guys excel when their roles are defined, but Ozzie's been mix-n-matching them a lot lately, especially with Thornton.



I have never understood the need to have roles defined. You get warmed up, you come into the game and throw strikes. Fifth inning or 15th, close game or blow out, mop-up guy or the closer, all they have to do is throw strikes.

Too bad it wasn't that easy for relief pitchers.